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View Full Version : [3.5e] Cleric Vs Cloistered: Interest/Usefulness



Uin
2008-08-10, 04:22 AM
My crusader just died [:smallfrown:]. I need something to provide healing (not be a healer tho, yawn) to the party in a core-ish kinda way (lvl 5).

I was considering a Cloistered Cleric since I while I know Joe Clerics are powerful, I don't see them as being that interesting to play. What are peoples experiences of playing Cloistered Clerics, where they still interesting and useful? Sample core-ish builds?

SoD
2008-08-10, 05:52 AM
Cleric vs. Cloistered Cleric.

Healing aside, does your party happily fill the melee role without your crusader? The Straight Cleric is much better as melee (better BAB, more HP, armour proficiency). If you want more of a spellcaster, the cloistered cleric is slightly better (having the knowlege domain free).

Personally, if either are fine for you, think what would make more sense for whichever God you pick. For example: Cloistered Cleric of Gruumsh...yeah. Right. Go straight cleric for that. Or what about the armour plated cleric of Boccob, trying to show off his knowlege to a wizard. Not really what springs to mind.

What do you want, :redcloak: or :durkon:? I know we don't actually know if the CC even exists in OOTSword, but it would make sense.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-10, 06:07 AM
I like the Bardic Knowledge, Extra Skill Points and Extra Domain Knowledge which Makes All Knowledge skills as class skills granting the PC more options.

Nice with a semi skill Monkey spellcaster with Lots of Spellcasting like a Beguiler -1 or Conjurer -1 with Precocious Apprentice (If the trick works), Cloistered Cleric -3, for a MT build with Thaum -5 and X-1 leaving lots of Feats for customizing the PC really nice in a leveling up game.

darkzucchini
2008-08-10, 07:01 AM
I like both classes quite a bit, but I am going to come right out and say it, unless you are trying to go for a PrC that needs Knowledge skills or the Knowledge domain to meet its prerequisites, CORE Cleric will be the better fighter/caster. The Knowledge domain power and spells don't make a very significant difference in the casting ability of the Cloistered Cleric and the lower BAB will make it more difficult to hit with touch attack spells, if you plan on using any. Not being able to wear medium or heavy armor also makes you rather more valnerable than the CORE Cleric, but this isn't usually a huge deal when you play a caster (though you probably wont be able to protect yourself as well as a Wizard). That being said, the difference isn't all that big and I would only choose based on the concept for my character.

Jack_Simth
2008-08-10, 07:03 AM
My crusader just died [:smallfrown:]. I need something to provide healing (not be a healer tho, yawn) to the party in a core-ish kinda way (lvl 5).

I was considering a Cloistered Cleric since I while I know Joe Clerics are powerful, I don't see them as being that interesting to play. What are peoples experiences of playing Cloistered Clerics, where they still interesting and useful? Sample core-ish builds?
They're as interesting as you make them - same with any other character class.

They're useful, but Cloistered Clerics are skillmonkey-casters instead of the warrior-casters that the standard Cleric is, and you need to think of them in that manner. With Lore, you don't really need to take Knoweledge skills (you'll effective have ranks = character level in most of them, without actually spending ranks on them), so you can just mix it up with other Clerical skills (not that there are many, mind).

They're also the way to end up with a LOT of domains. A Cloistered Cleric-3 (Knoweledge Domain)/Church Inquisiter-2 (Inquisition Domain)/Divine Oracle-2 (Oracle Domain)/Seeker of the Misty Isle-1(Travel Domain)/Radiant Servant of Pelor-5 (one bonus domain)/Contemplative-6 (two bonus domains); yes, 9 domains - requires just the Cloistered Cleric and Complete Divine - also a Full Caster all the way). This build is particularly useful if you're also using the Spontaneous Casting variant cleric (very large spontaneous spell list that way).

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-10, 07:15 AM
Sovereign Host Speaker from ECS basically picks up a bonus domain at each level (Some restrictions but gray how hard they are applied).

Jack_Simth
2008-08-10, 07:38 AM
Sovereign Host Speaker from ECS basically picks up a bonus domain at each level (Some restrictions but gray how hard they are applied).

Yes, but that loses two caster levels...

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-10, 08:07 AM
Only if you take all the levels.

Jack_Simth
2008-08-10, 09:11 PM
Only if you take all the levels.

It loses them at 1st and 6th. You can't take it and not lose at least one caster level.

ColonelFuster
2008-08-10, 09:15 PM
I personally enjoy playing archivists. Take a look at it, it's a base class in heroes of horror.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-10, 09:18 PM
For some players the loss of a single casting level will be worth pursuing the PRC for 5 levels to pick up the Domain benefits particularly in lower level games. Probably should have been a little clearer with my post.

kjones
2008-08-11, 07:56 AM
I ran a game with a Cloistered Cleric. Although the party really could have used another melee person, they got a lot of use out of his bardic knowledge and skills. As far as spells, however, he mostly played as a band-aid box... A straight cleric is definitely more out-and-out powerful, but if your party does not want for muscle, they'll appreciate the skills.

FatherMalkav
2008-08-11, 10:29 AM
If he decides to go Sovereign Host Speaker he can burn a feat for Practiced Spellcaster. That'll bring his ECL back up to full and leave a 'buffer' zone.

Personally I agree with ColonelFuster, I play an Archiviest and I love it. You don't have access to Domains but you do have access to their spells, as well as all divine spells. Combine their Dark Knowledge with the CC's Lore ability and it'll be a nasty combination. You can't spontaneously heal, but you said you didn't want to be the healer, just able to provide.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-11, 10:37 AM
Edit: Good catch Jack. Taking 5 levels with +4 CL and 5 bonus domains and a single bonus domain slot still not a bad deal depending on the domains chosens.

Telonius
2008-08-11, 11:49 AM
With four extra skills to put skill points into, the Cloistered Cleric can take over as party know-it-all. With his four extra skill points, he can take over Planes, Dungeoneering, Nature, and Local from Wizards, Druids, or Rangers; allowing those classes the opportunity to put ranks in other skills.

In addition to the skills, he gets a bunch of useful new spells on his list, an extra domain that puts Divination spells at +1, and Lore. The cost is a lower BAB (meaningless once you get Divine Power), loss of heavy and medium armor, and an average of 1 fewer HP per level after first. Unless your party is really hurting for melee, it's usually better to go Cloistered.

valadil
2008-08-11, 11:51 AM
I played a cloistered cleric once. While he wasn't as powerful as a cleric, it was one of my most fun and memorable characters. I never really understood why all religious healers were also competent warriors so I'm glad for the option to play a doctor rather than a combat medic.

Jack_Simth
2008-08-11, 04:08 PM
If he decides to go Sovereign Host Speaker he can burn a feat for Practiced Spellcaster. That'll bring his ECL back up to full and leave a 'buffer' zone.
It'll bring caster level up (range, damage, duration, SR penetration, and so on of spells), but not spell access - and it's generally the spell access that you're concerned about (it sucks, hard, if you don't have access to day-after spells such as Restoration when you're facing critters that do things that require a reasonably specific day-after fix, such as ability drain).


The other thing regarding the Sovereign Host Speaker is that while it does lose 2 levels of spellcasting over 10 levels it also picks up Three (3) Extra Domain Slots which mean an extra 4 Bonus Domain Spells at each level compared to a standard cleric with 1.

Cleric - 18 + 4 bonus domain slots at each level versus a Cleric - 20 with a single bonus domain slot at each level.

You might want to re-read that - it gives you extra domain slots at specific spell levels - not extra domain slots at every spell level. You're not outdoing the endurance of the Sorcerer at level 10, sorry.