Erfworld 116, Page 104

[LordVader]

And the plot thickens...interesting.

It appears Charlescomm has popped some new units since the last Stupid Meal report, I counted at least 17 archons in-shot. Interesting, any thoughts on what Charlie's solution is?

[Doopliss]

I count 18 Archons (or other glowy flying things) in panel 9, and 16 definite Archons in panel 12... Does that mean Charlie is going for it?

That net/canvas/whatever suggests they plan on airlifting someone, I think... Possibly Parson.

[valce]

Same count here, though I didn't notice the net. I agree that it looks like they are planning to airlift someone - most likely Parson. If Parson does go, it's likely he'll ask to take some of his subordinates with him.

But I don't see it. I still think (hope? lol) Parson's going to want to play things through to the end with his defense strategy. Maybe he will ask for some troops nonessential to the coming conflict to be airlifted away?




I count 18 Archons (or other glowy flying things) in panel 9, and 16 definite Archons in panel 12... Does that mean Charlie is going for it?

That net/canvas/whatever suggests they plan on airlifting someone, I think... Possibly Parson.

[SteveMB]

That net/canvas/whatever suggests they plan on airlifting someone, I think... Possibly Parson.

Possibly, which then leaves the question of whether he'd accept a ticket out (particularly if it meant abandoning everybody else). I'm guessing not.

The fact that there's a whole force of Archons suggests that trying to take GK is either a real possibility or a threat (implicit or otherwise) to convince Parson to go along with what Charlie is about to propose.

[Enlong]

Oh, boop. Either Charlie has some way to "free" Parson, or he's gonna kidnap him and bumrush GK. Either way, if Parson leaves, GK is pretty much booped.

[HOLEkevin]

I… I think I need to go back and reread everything again.

[Lamech]

I'm only counting a small few surviors from the original air force. I'm a thinking that the RCC air stack is about to get stomped; a few gwiffions and orlies versus 24 dwagons and a lighting bolt hurling artifact, not the making of a fair fight. Of course, this is assuming they get to fight at all.

[ishnar]

The last two pages have been full of win.

[Nargrakhan]

Man... these recent strips have introduced new events, that are totally confusing my expectations and guesses of what would have happened.

Great job guys!

However on that note... I just don't know what to think anymore.

Charlie appears to still regard Parson in a positive light, so I don't think he's going to croak him – but what does Charlie intend to do?

**EDIT**
Also... I don't think Parson would ditch the city. Not just because of any loyalty or duty magics... but just because Parson doesn't seem to be the type, who'd abandon friends in their greatest time of need. GK will certainly fall without Parson. He knows it. They know it.

Magic compulsion or not: Parson will stay, so long as people counting on him are alive.

[OverWilliam]

We can't really make any predictions on the upcoming battle because we still havn't seen Vampires in battle yet. We do know that Vinnie croaked five (albeit wounded) dwagons on one turn. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0079.html) I count 10 vampires there, including Vinnie, some of whom are probably higher level than he is. Then I guarantee you this Caesar Borgata has an awesome Leadership bonus. Add the Orlys and Gwiffons, and then Jillian's ability to handle herself and they've still got some punch to pack.

[Jarelk]

Parson got booped. That's what my thoughts were when I read the comic.
Seems to me that Charlie is gonna give Parson a choice...
"Death", or "My way".

[SteveMB]

Parson is coming up with new ways to open and widen cracks in the Coalition -- we don't know if the particular scheme he mentioned (confuse leaders about who gave which orders) could work, but it seems to be one of several ideas along those lines he's been brainstorming.

[OnDroid]

Parson got booped. That's what my thoughts were when I read the comic.
Seems to me that Charlie is gonna give Parson a choice...
"Death", or "My way".

Or more likely : Turn or prepare to get captured. :smallwink:

[LordVader]

Maybe he wants to talk to Parson face to face, I'm sure Parson can simply leave his defensive plans for the turn in the hands of his unit commanders.

[OverWilliam]

Maybe he wants to talk to Parson face to face, I'm sure Parson can simply leave his defensive plans for the turn in the hands of his unit commanders.

Nonosee, the whole point is we never actually see Charlie. :smallwink:

[Nargrakhan]

Nonosee, the whole point is we never actually see Charlie. :smallwink:

Back of his head maybe? :smalltongue:

[LordVader]

Nonosee, the whole point is we never actually see Charlie. :smallwink:

We don't have to see Charlie, they can simply put him in shadows or whatever, like the MitD. Parson doesn't even have to see who he is to be able to talk to him with words instead of notebooks.

[Welf]

I count 18 Archons (or other glowy flying things) in panel 9,

I count 19 arcons in panel 9, but I#m no mathemancer. I'm really confused now. schemes and plans without end.

[Nargrakhan]

I wonder if all Archons are female... kinda seems like it.

If so, Charlie has a nice harem there. :smallcool:

[Doctor Zuber]

"I saw the back of his hand once..."

Well well well, it would appear that Charlie has decided to side in with Parson after all.

If so, this would almost certainly give parson air superiority, and with a little luck, he may well be able to remove any remaining siege engines forcing this battle to a field of his choice the tunnels, where all his goblins have bonuses for fighting, and where all the nasty traps are.

I like Maggies comment about Parson. His Mind is a weapon.... I think those at the castle that have been working with him are clueing in to the fact that Parson really *IS* a military genius.

My only thought here is how is Stanley going to react when he comes back? My impression was that he had basically given up this city as lost and fled in pursuit of the next arkentool. Stanley doesn't much know what's going on back at Goblin Knob although I'm pretty sure he does get informed if the city falls. Each turn that passes with it NOT falling is going to start making Stanley wonder I think. I certainly don't think Stanley really expected Parson to succesfully defend Goblin Knob after he stormed out of there with all the best troops he could pack up on dragonback and fly out of there.

[OnDroid]

I wonder ... are ( at least one of ) Archons considered Warlords? Otherwise they would be forced to attack GK due to engagement rules.

[Morbius]

Parson got booped. That's what my thoughts were when I read the comic.
Seems to me that Charlie is gonna give Parson a choice...
"Death", or "My way".

I don't think Charlie can take GK alone while parson is in there, that is why he said he knows a reason to change his predictament. He is most likely giving Parson the chance to change sides if he wishes (very unlikely for him to do that)

I was just remembering about Parson's incomplete sword, it should be finished when their turn start next... but Charlie just had to delay that part, the big question is if after Parson refuses to switch sides what Charlie will do.

He will not attack, alone he cannot take GK, he would probably lose units trying and would not gain anything of it so a not very profitable course of action.

He probably can't rejoin the coalision as it would likely break his deal with Parson.

So.. what? Will he just stay there and watch as Parson turn the tide agains't the coalision?

[Lamech]

We can't really make any predictions on the upcoming battle because we still havn't seen Vampires in battle yet. We do know that Vinnie croaked five (albeit wounded) dwagons on one turn. I count 10 vampires there, including Vinnie, some of whom are probably higher level than he is. Then I guarantee you this Caesar Borgata has an awesome Leadership bonus. Add the Orlys and Gwiffons, and then Jillian's ability to handle herself and they've still got some punch to pack.
The Ceasar is probably fairly strong, but Stanley probably is too, and he's the one on the heavily armoured dwagon, with glowing yellow eyes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0083.html), and the artifact which strengths are Heaving Lighting and Cracking Things (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erfcast.html), and most of the warlords probably are not as strong as say Jillian (seeing how the second best Jetstone warlord is only level 5) (who a dwagon took out in one swipe) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0012.html), and they probably also lack magic weapons (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0043.html)like her. I still don't think things look good for the coalition air force.

[The Old Hack]

*snicker* I love the Transylvito force. How can it fail to kick ass with Super Mario in its ranks?

And I suspect Charlie and Parson are headed for a clash, if Charlie is expecting Parson to turn. Parson has had all night to see a move like this coming. He won't give up without at least trying to fight, and he has to have tried to brew up some sort of counterploy to an impending Archon attack.

[BarGamer]

Well, it's not quite a headache spell, but it does the job. :D That's pretty high praise from Maggie, considering she's the Thinkamancer, and Parson isn't. I wonder what would you get if Parson was a Thinkamancer, as well as everything else he knows? ^_^

Oh, and it seems that Parson might need to ask if they let him bring his own food on this flight. Or perhaps Charlie is offering to mediate a Face-to-Face meeting with Ansom and Co?

[Nargrakhan]

I like Maggies comment about Parson. His Mind is a weapon.... I think those at the castle that have been working with him are clueing in to the fact that Parson really *IS* a military genius.

Not to say Parson is not a military genius (he very well could be; weirder fellows have proven themselves battlefield experts), but I think it also has to do, that Parson brings in new ideas they've never even considered possible. Having come from the "real world" and whatnot, Parson brings warfare ideology they can't even conceive. Remember when Parson tried to explain that wars could happen in real time? Granted some of them are impossible by the "physics" of how Erfworld operates, but those which can, introduces unlimited opportunities.

Parson is the equivalent of a scientific and mathematical expert from the modern age, being time warped to the Renaissance. Not everything he knows can be applied in that "limited" age, but what information he can impart, is like a nuclear weapon of ideas.

So while some of his ideas might seem totally alien and absolutely insane to them, those which do makes sense are like divine revelations.

[LordVader]

Don't really see how Parson can take out the Archons if Charlie does not want to engage, as Wanda shot off most of the air defenses and all the dwagons are gone.

I also think that the Vampires and Coalition airforce may be in for big trouble given how Stanley has a massive stack of dwagons, an arcane artifact that is attunded to him, and three of his best Knights with him. Anything but an easy win for them.

[Tingel]

I really love that Super Mario vampire.

[The Old Hack]

Parson is the equivalent of a scientific and mathematical expert from the modern age, being time warped to the Renaissance. Not everything he knows can be applied in that "limited" age, but what information he can impart, is like a nuclear weapon of ideas.

So while some of his ideas might seem totally alien and absolutely insane to them, those which do makes sense are like divine revelations.

One of the things I like best about Erfworld is that while this is indeed the case, Parson isn't invincible. The military genius out of time (or space) is a device used and much loved by writers of military fiction, but all too often is cast as some sort of superhero who can pull out a new winning tactic or strategy every time the enemy thinks it is on to him. The best writers avoid this trap, and Parson is a good example of this -- while he brings out surprises and twists of his own, he is also vulnerable to being surprised in turn, and not all his ideas are flawlessly executed. This makes him far more human and believable to me.

[fendrin]

I count 10 fliers on the coalition side of panel 2. Vinny, Jillian, 3 Gwiffons and 5 of what appear to be orlies. So where are Vinnie's bats??? The way he says 'packing' makes me think of 'packing a gun', so maybe he has them hidden on his body somewhere?

I doubt Charlie would be there... it would mean leaving his spire-mounted arkentool behind, and without that how would he hack the eyebook?

Also, Ephedra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra) is an herb, which ironically can cause headaches. It migh tmake Parson lose weight, though...

[Oracle_Hunter]

:smalleek: Rapid fire updates! Super-sweet!

This smells like a surgical strike to me. Charlie is coming in to steal Parson, noting that "we have enough people to take out your Garrison this turn - as you know - so how about you surrender and we'll take you to safety."

But Parson isn't going to surrender. He wants to fight this out, and he'll convince Charlie that he'd rather die than be captured - or at least see how his plan works out.

Still, the score remains:
Charlie 2, Parson 0

Hope our boy can even up them scores! :smallbiggrin:

[Mercenary Pen]

Parson may have given Charlie what was, at the time, the important math for this confrontation, but I suspect Parson- having sensed the possible trap- has probably been working to change the math around a little...

I mean, Parson has the mathamancy gauntlet, and we see him with a massive headache at the beginning of the strip, so maybe he's been working to try and neutralize Charlie's advantage as much as physically possible. Our indications so far suggest that Charlie isn't particularly keen on Pyrrhic victories, so making a victory cost more than he'll willingly spend on it may be the way to win the day here.

[OverWilliam]

The Ceasar is probably fairly strong, but Stanley probably is too, and he's the one on the heavily armoured dwagon, with glowing yellow eyes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0083.html), and the artifact which strengths are Heaving Lighting and Cracking Things (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erfcast.html), and most of the warlords probably are not as strong as say Jillian (seeing how the second best Jetstone warlord is only level 5) (who a dwagon took out in one swipe) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0012.html), and they probably also lack magic weapons (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0043.html)like her. I still don't think things look good for the coalition air force.

Oh, I wholeheartedly believe that they will lose the engagment. That's a lot of dwagons, without the Archons the Vamps don't stand much of a chance. I'm just saying that Vinnie has shown interest (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0058.html) in Parson's hit-what-matters-and-get-the-boop-out-of-dodge tactic in the past, who knows, they might try something similar. Either way, some dwagons are going to bite it (or get bit, as the case may be :smallbiggrin:). Whether they can get to Stanly before they are beaten back remains to be seen, I'm just saying I think they're going to cause some definite damage.

I just had a thought-- what if the Foolamancer wakes up in the middle of the battle?

[SteveMB]

Oh, I wholeheartedly believe that they will lose the engagment. That's a lot of dwagons, without the Archons the Vamps don't stand much of a chance. I'm just saying that Vinnie has shown interest (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0058.html) in Parson's hit-what-matters-and-get-the-boop-out-of-dodge tactic in the past, who knows, they might try something similar.

Apparently, they're waiting for His Toolishness at the choke point, which means they can't use that tactic -- the engagement will happen on Stanley's turn, not theirs.

[dr pepper]

Well it looks as if the angels are carrying a firefighters' rescue net.

[Doctor Zuber]

So while some of his ideas might seem totally alien and absolutely insane to them, those which do makes sense are like divine revelations.

I like the way you put this. The expression "Think outside the Box" comes to mind to me. Parson has effectively entered this world from somewhere way outside the box. So naturally, Parsons ideas are pretty much all outside the box.

This naturally makes him very potent as a military leader. Sure, he's made a mistake or two, but he's learning from his mistakes, and his successes are quite impressive.

[Istari]

I pretty sure Charlie is here to help Parson not trap him or anything.

[fractal]

I'd say Charlie is there to make Parson an offer he can't accept: abandoning Gobwin Knob and joining Charlie. There's no way anything like that happens, at least not until AFTER The Battle for Gobwin Knob is complete, one way or the other.

I am wondering, though, why all of these Archons are dressed in 'dance fighting' outfits rather than the flight attendant uniforms the original three were introduced in.

[MReav]

I'm wondering if vampire Mario will be "Doing The Mario" against Stanley.

[Glome]

So the question remains is whether Charlie there to capture all of Gobwin Knob including Parson, or is he there to specifically capture Parson, using the threat to being able to capture Gobwin Knob to get him to cooperate?

I think if he cares about his reputation, it is probably the latter. After all, I don't think Ansom and allies will be happy about Charlie capturing Gobwin Knob out from under their noses. If he did so, Charlie could probably count out getting work from the alliance again. Of course he also declined work from Vinnie's kingdom just to pull this off, so you never know.

[dr pepper]

We can't really make any predictions on the upcoming battle because we still havn't seen Vampires in battle yet. We do know that Vinnie croaked five (albeit wounded) dwagons on one turn. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0079.html) I count 10 vampires there, including Vinnie, some of whom are probably higher level than he is. Then I guarantee you this Caesar Borgata has an awesome Leadership bonus. Add the Orlys and Gwiffons, and then Jillian's ability to handle herself and they've still got some punch to pack.

I dunno. I don't think anyone who calls Jillian "Chickie" and/or addresses her with a dismissive attitude can be very smart. Or long lived.

[Vince3]

I am wondering, though, why all of these Archons are dressed in 'dance fighting' outfits rather than the flight attendant uniforms the original three were introduced in.

They were originally scheduled to join the Transylvito side/Vinnie's faction, and in fact some of them were already at the choke point before Charlie took matters into his own hands, so to speak.......... and I imagine Charlie likes all of his Angels Archons to wear the same uniform.......

[dr pepper]

Remember the Shakespear elements of the plot. I think we're about due for "my foolmancer is dead".

[Thydron]

Ha; just noticed that when Charlie uses the Eye-Books the sound-effect is "Ta-Da!", opposed to Parson's "Eep?", Stanley's "Quack", Wanda's "Ploip" and Sizemore's "Choo". Nice little detail.

[Doctor Zuber]

I don't know where people are coming up with these half-baked theories of Charlie trying to capture GK himself. Okay, sure I admit that Charlies first two mathemancy rolls are a bit unsettling, but this also tells us that Charlie does not currently have enough archons to take GK by himself like that. I think Charlie has something much more creative in mind, something benificial to Parson. After all, Charlie has made it rather clear that he likes Parson.

The one thing I find myself wondering.... is what the net is for, or whatever that thing is. I see three archons in the last panel holding it. I just can't think of what they plan on using it for.

An escape plan for Parson? I don't buy it. Parson would never go for this. And Duty would probably compel him to stay if he even considered it. And I doubt Charlie would make this mistake, after all Charlie HAS been in his mind before.

Perhaps Parson could use this to direct the battle from the sky? After all, any general worth his salt wants to be as close to the battle as possible to better see all the details first hand and direct his troops.

Humm.... I can't help but still have the nagging suspicion that there's another answer I'm just not seeing. Something even more out of the box.

[Etheric]

Seems fairly straightforward to me.

Both Charlie and Parson know how many Archons can take GK before the start of the next GK turn. I would bet there are at least that many there.

It is going to be a case of surrender or fight (and lose) and get caputured. Charlie recognises how good Parson is and sees a chance to make a profit.

It could easily be the end of Stanley too, but a secret entrance into FAQ would make that one more interesting.

Then the continuation is Parson working for Charlie doing mercenary work which is a good story I think.

Surrender taking some of his staff with him seems win win really, even if it does leave quite a few lose ends around.

Anyway we will see.

[teratorn]

If Charlie is not part of this conflict, which turn is his? I'm getting confused about the turn order. Is Charlie a 4th party getting to move after Transylvito? Is he going to carry Parson to Stanley this turn so Parson can get back with the dwagons to GK?

[selgnij]

Actually we know 14 wasn't enough to take GK himself, Charlie has since called in more units, probably whatever number Parson's gauntlet told him would be enough to take the garrison.

That being said, I don't think Charlie is here to capture GK, simply because its not really a worthwhile option for him. He's a mercenary, and there's no profit in holding a far off city, especially when said city is surrounded by a massive army, the commander of which probably isn't too happy with you right now. (This is if Ansom knows Charlie isn't helping his air force.)

I tend to agree that Charlie is here to try to force Parson to turn/capture him and using the fact that he could take GK as leverage. Too bad for him the devil tends to be in the details, and he didn't ask Parson the number of archons to handle the garrison AND the air force.

[Doctor Zuber]

I still don't like this theory.... If Charlie does in fact attack here, it's going to cost both of them dearly, making the battle even more unwinnable for Parson. I should remind you that Charlie sounded genuinely sad at the loss of even ONE of his archons. if 14 was a battle loss, 18 certainly is not going to be a victory with no casualties.... Charlie is not the type to spend his archons lightly.

I still think there's something a lot more out of the box that Charlie has in mind here, that still satisfies Charlie's mercenary code of honor.

[SteveMB]

If Charlie is not part of this conflict, which turn is his? I'm getting confused about the turn order. Is Charlie a 4th party getting to move after Transylvito?
It looks like the current turn order is: Transylvito (we saw the end of their turn as they assembed at the choke point), Charlescomm (acting independently), Plaid (both Stanley and Parson), and Jetstone (and allies in the column).

The mechanics of Erfworld may include a master list of all existing sides and their turn order, though only a small number (usually two) are relevant to any given conflict.

[teratorn]

It looks like the current turn order is: Transylvito (we saw the end of their turn as they assembed at the choke point), Charlescomm (acting independently), Plaid (both Stanley and Parson), and Jetstone (and allies in the column).

That was my guess. So is Charlie going to take Parson on the net to intercept Stanley before he reaches the chokepoint?

[Doctor Zuber]

has it even occured to anyone that the reason Charlie asked how many archons it would take, is because if he does accept the alliance with transylvito and attacks on ansoms side, Charlie wants to know what this choice is going to cost him...

And also, since Charlie is no stranger to Erfworld, I suspect he can infer from these calculations of how much his archons will tip the balance of power if he switches sides here. Thus by not asking further questions charlie saves his precious calculations. And as someone pointed out, Charlie now has a vested interest in keeping Parson alive. Those mathamancy rolls are potent.

Incidentally.... Weren't the eyebooks based on the link with maggie which is now broken? why are they still working?

[Doctor Zuber]

This using Charlie to regroup with Stanley theory has one really doosey of a flaw nobody seems to be remembering....

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0047.html

STANLEY HATES CHARLIE!

[teratorn]

This using Charlie to regroup with Stanley theory has one really doosey of a flaw nobody seems to be remembering.... STANLEY HATES CHARLIE!

No problem, Charlie is not allying with Stanley. He can just drop Parson in the hex before the chokepoint so that Stanley can see him. It's just a way to force Stanley to talk to Parson (he'd probably refuse to communicate through Maggie).

Parson needs more than blocking this turn of the coalition. He also needs to convince Stanley not to start a new side.

[OverWilliam]

I dunno. I don't think anyone who calls Jillian "Chickie" and/or addresses her with a dismissive attitude can be very smart. Or long lived.

Have you ever heard of a mobster who wouldn't address a woman in black leather and poofy blonde hair dismissively? :smallbiggrin:

[fendrin]

Remember the Shakespear elements of the plot. I think we're about due for "my foolmancer is dead".

Except that Lear's fool doesn't die. I know, I was lucky enough to see a lovely outdoor performance of King Lear last weekend. The 'special effects' during the storm sequence were wonderful! Provided by mother nature herself.


I don't know where people are coming up with these half-baked theories of Charlie trying to capture GK himself. Okay, sure I admit that Charlies first two mathemancy rolls are a bit unsettling, but this also tells us that Charlie does not currently have enough archons to take GK by himself like that. I think Charlie has something much more creative in mind, something benificial to Parson. After all, Charlie has made it rather clear that he likes Parson.

The one thing I find myself wondering.... is what the net is for, or whatever that thing is. I see three archons in the last panel holding it. I just can't think of what they plan on using it for.

An escape plan for Parson? I don't buy it. Parson would never go for this. And Duty would probably compel him to stay if he even considered it. And I doubt Charlie would make this mistake, after all Charlie HAS been in his mind before.

Perhaps Parson could use this to direct the battle from the sky? After all, any general worth his salt wants to be as close to the battle as possible to better see all the details first hand and direct his troops.

Humm.... I can't help but still have the nagging suspicion that there's another answer I'm just not seeing. Something even more out of the box.

The so-called "half-baked theories" come from the fact that Charlie has sent more than the 14 archons stipulated in question one. at least four more. Four could have been the answer to Charlie's second question. The net reconciles the theoretical assault on GK with Charlie's like for Parson. The threat of assault (and theoretically death for Parson and/or his friends) would be the lever to persuade Parson to go peacefully. I think Parson has an ace up his sleeve though...

New idea!

Maybe the archons have a nets so that they can carry Parson, not to Charlie, but to the coalition column, so he can lead them in hit-and-runs against the remaining siege! The question is... at what cost? Charlie is after all a mercenary.

EDIT: Holy rapid-fire posts, Batman!

has it even occured to anyone that the reason Charlie asked how many archons it would take, is because if he does accept the alliance with transylvito and attacks on ansoms side, Charlie wants to know what this choice is going to cost him...

And also, since Charlie is no stranger to Erfworld, I suspect he can infer from these calculations of how much his archons will tip the balance of power if he switches sides here. Thus by not asking further questions charlie saves his precious calculations. And as someone pointed out, Charlie now has a vested interest in keeping Parson alive. Those mathamancy rolls are potent.

No to both counts; the calculations are based on the forces in GK prior to Parson's turn. Anything that happens after will change the parameters of the calculations, which could have a massive effect on the results (For instance if Henchman Mung were the only unit left in GK, then 14 archons would definitely be able to capture it with ease).


Incidentally.... Weren't the eyebooks based on the link with maggie which is now broken? why are they still working?
They were created by the link, but unlike the table, were not powered by it. Think of the books as a magic item and the table as a spell (or more accurately, the combined effect of at least 3 spells). Typically in fantasy worlds magic items continue to function even after the creator's death, but once the caster dies they can't cast anymore spells. Breaking the link essentially killed the 'gestalt mind' that acted as a single caster to create the eyebooks and cast the table spells.

[Destro_Yersul]

Do I see Tony Soprano in the back of the Transylvito contingent there?

[AmberVael]

Wait wait wait, I think I see what is going on.

Charlie likes his reputation, but he also sees the value of Parson. My guess is that he's going to try to take Parson, and then to honor his arrangements with the coalition, he'll take Gobwin Knob for them (but alone).
This does a few things:

-Presumably Stanley becomes a barbarian. I'm not sure what effect this will have on him, but it probably won't be a positive one.

-Charlie can presumably take Parson under his command, as well as any of the other casters since the capital is his (just as Stanley did to Wanda).

-Charlie will have won the battle for Gobwin Knob for the Coalition, honoring the intent his contract. While he may not show to croak Stanley, he will have done some really important work which the coalition won't be able to ignore. It will allow him to keep their respect while also getting him a nice reward (Parson and some other handy character figures).

[Dacia Brabant]

Incidentally.... Weren't the eyebooks based on the link with maggie which is now broken? why are they still working?

I believe it was said that the three Eyemancers created the Eyebooks, not that they relied upon the link between the three--the link is what allowed for constant communication between GK and units in the field, among other things.

As for what Charlie has planned and what Parson will do, I agree with speculation that Charlie's Archons are there to force a surrender/capture scenario on Parson.

And I have a feeling that Parson, after what Sizemore said, will agree to it, which also would fulfill Parson's "tiresome bluff" about surrendering to a secret ally in the coalition. Sizemore and Maggie go to the Magic Kingdom (or are captured too I suppose) and Wanda chases after Stanley (giving him the Foolamancer's name), who have their big showdown with Jillian, capture FAQ and set their sights on...the Arkendish.

On the other hand, if the last battle for Gobwin Knob isn't actually fought out, that would be rather anticlimactic, especially with so much planning and so many strips devoted to how Parson's going to try to pull this off. Still, how that manages to happen without a confrontation between GK and Charlescomm, I've no idea.

[Geno9999]

umm... I hope that is the relief force, not the "OMGBBQPWONED, Lazor flavor" force. ...That sounds like a good squad name, if it wasn't so hard to spell properly.

[teratorn]

Wait wait wait, I think I see what is going on.

Charlie likes his reputation, but he also sees the value of Parson. My guess is that he's going to try to take Parson, and then to honor his arrangements with the coalition, he'll take Gobwin Knob for them (but alone).


I won't be satisfied with that, because then Parson would have lost the fight. And Sizemore needs to fight his battle, and probably be destroyed (mentally) in the process.

I may be too fond of Parson, I want him to win this battle and crush Ansom. Next turn would be sweet if Sizemore crushed the army in the tunnels and Parson devastated siege with a horde of dwagons.

[LordVader]

I am wondering, though, why all of these Archons are dressed in 'dance fighting' outfits rather than the flight attendant uniforms the original three were introduced in.

Probably, they were preparing for the dance-fighting against Stanley's air stack and haven't had time to change given the rapid switch of sides.

At this point, all bets are off and the only phrase that really seems to apply here is "The enemy's gate is down." I'm expecting a victory like that of Ender against Griffin and Tiger armies here, something insanely out of the blue that we, the reader, haven't even picked up on yet.

[Bongos]

Looks like someone popped a few Archons.

We gonna see some of that Ultimate warlord stuff now?

[LordVader]

What I want to know is, where and how did he get the extra Archons? If he only had 14, it seems like popping more is quite expensive; he must have spent some money on that one.

[PyritePyro]

What I want to know is, where and how did he get the extra Archons? If he only had 14, it seems like popping more is quite expensive; he must have spent some money on that one.

He didn't. That was what he was going to send to help against the dwagons. He asked how many more it would take to take the city. And he probably showed up with that many more than 14. Hence his questions to Parson.

[LordVader]

But the Stupid Meal said there were only 14 of them, right?

[Firest]

All this talk of Parson leaving, or surrendering, ignores the fact that Wanda is sitting there in command of a sizable force of air units.

If Parson and Charlie make any kind of deal that would endanger Stanley, and we still don't know exactly why Wanda is so loyal to him, she will have a lot to say about it.

[Enkidu]

The Ceasar is probably fairly strong, but Stanley probably is too, and he's the one on the heavily armoured dwagon, with glowing yellow eyes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0083.html), and the artifact which strengths are Heaving Lighting and Cracking Things (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erfcast.html), and most of the warlords probably are not as strong as say Jillian (seeing how the second best Jetstone warlord is only level 5) (who a dwagon took out in one swipe) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0012.html), and they probably also lack magic weapons (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0043.html)like her. I still don't think things look good for the coalition air force.

Not sure who's gonna win, but it appears that these 10 vampires are 10 warlords... which gotta kick SOME ass. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0111.html

[pirateking89]

All this talk of Parson leaving, or surrendering, ignores the fact that Wanda is sitting there in command of a sizable force of air units.

If Parson and Charlie make any kind of deal that would endanger Stanley, and we still don't know exactly why Wanda is so loyal to him, she will have a lot to say about it.

Luckily, Charlie already knows precisely how many archons he needed to send to bring down all the units in GK. Just croaking Wanda would be very little problem.

[teratorn]

But the Stupid Meal said there were only 14 of them, right?

Those were probably just the units that were part of the attack force at that time.

[Random NPC]

Theory time.

Charile is also a Plaid and only those of the Plaid tribe can attune themselves to the Artifacts

[Tar Palantir]

He did technically only ask about taking the garrison, which excludes all of Wanda's uncroaked air units. Personally, I think Charlie's the cavalry Parson was looking for. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0041.html)

Or at least I hope so. GK FTW!

[VariaVespasa]

He didn't. That was what he was going to send to help against the dwagons. He asked how many more it would take to take the city. And he probably showed up with that many more than 14. Hence his questions to Parson.

What you said, but I think there's more to it. Charlie has indeed shown some connection to his units, and 19 (by my count) archons is highly unlikely to be able to take GK without significant casualties if 14 couldnt even win (although the strip never said how badly 14 would fail, just that they would fail.).

So my bet on how to have our cake and eat it too is this- Charlie has shown up with enough archons to take GK and Parson absolutely knows this for a fact due to the mathemancy. However, due to the casualties he would take doing it, and the tenuous, most likely untenable, position that would leave him in vis-a-vis the now annoyed and likely hostile alliance units already in attack position around GK, I dont think Charlie actually *wants* to capture GK. He almost certainly couldnt hold it and he'd lose 19 archons in the process, and he didnt like losing 1. So he says this to Parson- Step out on the balcony, get captured, and per agreement (either from their previous talk, or about to be proposed) I'll leave the rest of GK alone. Parson, due to some feelings for his units, doesnt want his units destroyed and thus will be reluctantly willing to make that deal. And since Charlie absolutely can take/destroy GK, his magical loyalty to Stanley requires him to work in Stanleys best interests if he can. So, if its lose himself, or lose himself and all of GK, his duty requires him to just lose himself, and thus aceed to Charlies plan. And, of course, once he's captured by Charile he's no longer under Stanleys control and is no longer bound by it.

But just losing himself doesnt alter GKs defensive situation, or the plans that Parson has already put in place (Refining those plans to work without him may be why he has a headache). So, even with Parson gone, the remaining GK personell can still carry out Parsons plan for the defense and stomp Ansom into the floor. So we can have both- Parson gets to live and be free of Stanley, and we get to see the final Parson-style battles for GK too, presumably led by Wanda in his place, and Parson does get to play it out after a fashion, albeit vicariously. We get to see Wanda as a cackling warlord in full battle array, for some good fan-service. And for extra spice, Sizemore, already unhappy with Parson for what he's going to have to do, could be driven further into the hate camp by Parson "abandoning" him and having to all that killing alone. Might make him a new enemy of Parson in the future, with the extra fun of Parson feeling bad about having to fight him since he had a big hand in making Angry-Sizemore in the first place. And that leaves Stanley a city to retreat to if he cant get to Faq secretly so he gets to live too. Plus, if Stanley keeps GK due to Parsons plan, thus realising that maybe he *was* the perfect warlord, but loses Parson to Charlie in the process, then thats extra reason to fuel a Stanley/Charlie feud in the future. Heck, if she survives the battle with Stanley, if she has enough cash from her mercenary work then Jillian may even rebuild Faq and re-establish her side, since she's so close anyway, if the alliance assault on GK is defeated in the meantime.

The only thing I would like to see and cant figure out how it could be done due to the apparent timing of when things pop, is Parson giving Bogroll his (presumably-soon-to-be) completed sword to use in the coming battle. I guess it depends on what his Stupid-meals prizes are attached to- him or GK or the other 2 parts of the sword. We'll see.

[VariaVespasa]

All this talk of Parson leaving, or surrendering, ignores the fact that Wanda is sitting there in command of a sizable force of air units.

If Parson and Charlie make any kind of deal that would endanger Stanley, and we still don't know exactly why Wanda is so loyal to him, she will have a lot to say about it.

I think Charlie has shown up with enough to take GK, in which case Parson NOT permitting himself to be captured (if thats Charlies price for not attacking) is what would endanger GK, especially if Parson leaves her with his plan to defend GK for Stanley, and puts her in charge before he goes. She IS capable of commanding stacks, after all, so she should be able to act as a command warlord, and failing that GK still has 2 uncroaked warlords and as the croakamancer that made them she can probably finesse control of THEM to wind up in effective command...

[SmartAlec]

Except that Lear's fool doesn't die. I know, I was lucky enough to see a lovely outdoor performance of King Lear last weekend.

In many interpretations of the play, the Fool dies. There's also two versions of Lear floating around; the original and the slightly happier rewrite - do you know which one it was you saw?

Coming back to the strip, is it possible that the Archons have a net simply for them to be able to carry a gigantic amount of money?

[chaoschristian]

Wild and totally uninformed speculation:

If 19 (or so) Archons are enough to take GK, then 19 Archons may also be enough to prevent the Coalition from taking GK (perhaps by hit-n-run raids on the siege engines, without which an assault on the city is futile).

Charlie is going to deliver Parson into Ansom's audience, and then Charlie, through Parson and his uber-Thinkamancy skills granted by the Arkendish, is going to inform the Coalition leaders that he intends to do exactly that, thwart any attempt to take GK while Parson is in charge. Ansom will have lost his opportunity to take the city by force, the other Coalition leaders will recognize this, blame Ansom for the lost opportunity, and the Coalition will split, dissolve and leave Ansom standing at the gates of GK by himself.

[Albub]

Is it just me, or are the vampires the most badass group of just about anything that you've ever seen?

[Titanium Dragon]

Well, its possible they're there for Parson, but its also possible they are there to beat Ansom. If they destroy the remaining seige, given that Parson seems to think he's got the tunnels under control, that may be the end of it. Parson didn't like his chances, but he said they might succeed - maybe Charlie's trying to turn "might" into "will" for reasons of his own.

Of course, there is a pretty plausible explanation - Charlie is also after the Arkentools, and in exchange for his help will want Ansom's.

[Morbius]

Is it just me, or are the vampires the most badass group of just about anything that you've ever seen?

The only thing I can think of that is more badass would be a flight of dwagons, just remember the dwagons vs wood elfs earlier :smallbiggrin:

[Zeku]

Has Charlie had access to all of Parson's klogs or not? This is fairly critical I think.

Thinking of Charlie as a benign deus-ex-machina is fairly boring, I hope he has a personality and ambition of his own.

[Zolem]

We can't really make any predictions on the upcoming battle because we still havn't seen Vampires in battle yet. We do know that Vinnie croaked five (albeit wounded) dwagons on one turn. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0079.html) I count 10 vampires there, including Vinnie, some of whom are probably higher level than he is. Then I guarantee you this Caesar Borgata has an awesome Leadership bonus. Add the Orlys and Gwiffons, and then Jillian's ability to handle herself and they've still got some punch to pack.

Heck, if Ceaser, sorry Caeser, is such a legend that his presense actually makes other warlords standup and take notice, I'd say he's pretty damn tough.

[kreszantas]

the net also could be for one undead archon that was captured... this could be a simple extridition of that kind. Release your prisoner of war (valueable military asset) and everything will be just fine. Much the same way any valuable piece of techonolgy / military hardware falls into the enemy hands. You get them all out. Leave no Archon behind.

[glenstorm74]

Are Jillian and company meeting at the pass to FAQ now? There is a chance that the group met somewhere else. I can't quite tell. Wouldn't it be suicide to try and block Stanley's advance at this point?

I know both groups went west of GK

Stanley is flying west
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0096.html)

The Coallition flies west, implying that FAQ is also west of GK.
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0111.html)

What I can't figure out is how Jillian beat Stanley to the same place without being seen. Check out the numbers below.

Stanley's flight
1. GK: Stanley moves about ten spaces west.
1. RCC: Jillian circles GK
Result: Stanley ahead about 10 spaces.

2. GK: Stanley moves about 50 spaces west.
2. RCC: Jillian moves north to GK (about 4 spaces) Then she moves about 40 spaces west
Result: Stanley ahead about 20 spaces.

3. RCC: Jillian moves before Stanley, up to 44 spaces.
Result: Jillian ahead up to 24 spaces.

3. GK: Stanley moves and meets ambush force?

Are the 24 "extra" move enough to get out of Stanley's sight range and beat him to FAQ? When you are flying, there isn't much to get in your way. Therefore, both forces likely made a bee-line to FAQ. (Unless Stanley is going somewhere else.) :smallwink:

[JeffJway]

I personally believe that the archons are there to offer Parson the chance to hire them and turn the tide in return for Parson's calculations and mind, a Arkentool and continued prosperity for all.

Charles' statement of "solution to your predictament" makes me think that that is not a net, but a battle plan written out or something that can change the situation in both of their favours.

If Charles planned to attack GK and take it over with the 19 archons, taking Parson and gang prisoners or something, he would not have asked for 12 calculations, he would have only needed the 2 questions he did ask.
1)Whether the force he had at that moment was sufficient
2) How many more did he need.

With that info, Charles could attack and capture Parson and make him give all the mathamancy Charles wanted as a captured warlord. Charles asked for 12 specifically...

but that's just my opinion.

[LordVader]

Is it just me, or are the vampires the most badass group of just about anything that you've ever seen?

Can't argue with the Mario vampire.
I think Charlie intends to keep Parson alive one way or the other, because I don't see a pragmatist like him throwing away such a valuable asset, in terms of both Mathmancy and leadership abilities.

I doubt that they are there to extradite Jacqlyn, though, because he probably would have made her recovery part of their original deal if he had something he could utilize to rez her.

[Lamech]

Hey if Charlie ISN'T from our world I think Parson could BS his way out of any capturing. (Assuming archons can see stats.) Parson can claim he isn't actually there (he has no stats like EVERY other unit), or let the Archon's "call" him on his trick. Then he can let the Archons wonder around GK until they've decided he isn't really there. They'll think this is some trick so he can lead while being else where. This is assuming again that won't capture him just in case.

I think I only have three major assumptions there, thats pretty low for a theory.:smalleek:

[The Boyce]

I'd imagine Caesar is Transvilito's Chief Warlord given that Vinny called him Chief

[Lizard Lord]

While no one knows Charlie's long term goals (assuming he has any) his short term goal is clear, at least to me. He wants Parson to work for him, permanently. Not just have him answer 12 questions to make it easier to take Goblin Knob. He has left Ansome's service and refused Vinnie's offer. For what other reason would he want to take Gobwin Knob? Of course he may not want to take Gobwin Knob, and just wants to show Parson he could in hopes Parson will give himself up.

[ishnar]

It looks like the current turn order is: Transylvito (we saw the end of their turn as they assembed at the choke point), Charlescomm (acting independently), Plaid (both Stanley and Parson), and Jetstone (and allies in the column).

The mechanics of Erfworld may include a master list of all existing sides and their turn order, though only a small number (usually two) are relevant to any given conflict.

I think communications may take place at any time. That or his artifact allows communications at any time. So Charle's comm was not indicative of his turn beginning. I'm guessing that Charlie has an initiative bonus.
Of course, Charlyies turn could have lasted through the night.

[Yodimus]

I think communications may take place at any time. That or his artifact allows communications at any time. So Charle's comm was not indicative of his turn beginning. I'm guessing that Charlie has an initiative bonus.
Of course, Charlyies turn could have lasted through the night.

No, no, no - Charles' turn is right now. Note all the Archons floating over GK. They didn't come from nowhere.


So, is Chuck gonna propose to capture Parson then? For Parson's own good, I'm sure the ol boy'll rationalize. And then what? Parson's not exactly in a position to negotiate here, but he seems to really care about GK's fate while Chuck really doesn't. That's a bit of a problem, no?

[fendrin]

In many interpretations of the play, the Fool dies. There's also two versions of Lear floating around; the original and the slightly happier rewrite - do you know which one it was you saw? Unfortunately, I do not have a dramaturg's notes to verify, but given the group's emphasis on Shakespeare's era I firmly believe it was the original.
King Lear spoilers ahead:
The fool's last appearance is in Act 3, at a time when Lear is still wandering about.

The confusion comes from Lear's last line, which begins:
"And my poor fool is hang'd!"
which seems plain enough, but in context is clearly not referring to the Fool.
The stage directions indicate that Lear is holding Cordelia's corpse in his arms, shortly after she is hanged in prison. Throughout the scene, he is attempting to find some sign of life. The complete line is:

KING LEAR
And my poor fool is hang'd! No, no, no life!
Why should a dog, a horse, a rat, have life,
And thou no breath at all? Thou'lt come no more,
Never, never, never, never, never!
Pray you, undo this button: thank you, sir.
Do you see this? Look on her, look, her lips,
Look there, look there! [He dies.

The word 'fool' in that line may be a corruption of 'foal', which was used in Shakespeare's time as a term for a child (in fact Shakespeare uses it that way in Hamlet).



Coming back to the strip, is it possible that the Archons have a net simply for them to be able to carry a gigantic amount of money?

Not likely. We never see physical money in the strip, and most notably we don't when Wanda goes to the Magic Kingdom to buy the summoning scroll, and we don't see Sizemore actually give anything to Janis the Hippymancer.

[teratorn]

Thinking of Charlie as a benign deus-ex-machina is fairly boring, I hope he has a personality and ambition of his own.

As I suggested in the thread about the previous strip Charlie may have his selfish motives to keep Parson independent from him, at least for some time

Charlie's a merc, and he can profit from a world fearing Parson, the warlord who defeated 12:1 odds. Any guy facing Parson would hire as much help as he could get, and since Charlie can ask Parson how many archons he needs to defeat him he doesn't even need to fight, Parson will retreat increasing Chuck's bargaining power. He makes money without risk.

Of course he will have to deal with Parson after 9 such confrontations but he'll probably have enough power by then to do it easily (since Parson won't be making that much progress).

[Arameus]

Don't know about anybody else, but I think panel 5 is one of the most exploitable panels yet produced. Just how simple it is, and how expressive without really having much specific context. I'm sure some people have already come up with some hilarious ideas of what to replace the text with.

[Kanthalion]

It's too late, and I'm too tired, to read though the whole thread to see if anyone else agrees with me, but I think it looks like Charlie is planning on using the net to capture Parson.

[Laurentio II]

It's too late, and I'm too tired, to read though the whole thread to see if anyone else agrees with me, but I think it looks like Charlie is planning on using the net to capture Parson.

Makes little sense. It's ok for the capture part: in many tactical games, there are troops that can enslave opponents. Sometimes the captured opponent has to be held until the end of the battle, sometimes he switch side during the same round (that can be quite gamebreaking). Again, it usually can be done to leader or special troops.

What bugs me is the fact that Archons did not set on defenses. I can accept that they have at least a leader (so, no random attacks), but to capture Parson, shouldn't they have to enter a combat phase?

That bring to the most probable scenario of having Parson willingly enter the net.

I'm hoping for a master-piece surprise from Mr. Balder.

[Ptorquemada]

I speculated after the previous strip that Charlie already knew how many Archons he'd need to take GK and was having Parson run the calculation as a test of Parson's Mathamancy skills.

I still think that may have been part of it, but I'm now convinced that the main reason was so that Parson would properly interpret the number of Archons that just showed up on his doorstep.

Because we don't know what the results of the calculation were, we don't know exactly what message Charlie is sending here, but Parson for sure does.

(My guess? Charlie sent N - 1 Archons, as a sign of good faith.)

[fractal]

I'd imagine Caesar is Transvilito's Chief Warlord given that Vinny called him Chief
In the Roman Empire, the heir to the throne (as well as the emperor himself) was referred to by the title of Caesar (named after Julius Caesar). Since the vampires are Italian, I think it's reasonable to infer that the lead vampire's name is Borgata, and Caesar is his title, indicating that he is the crown prince and possibly also the chief warlord (like Ansom).

[OverWilliam]

What bugs me is the fact that Archons did not set on defenses. I can accept that they have at least a leader (so, no random attacks), but to capture Parson, shouldn't they have to enter a combat phase?


We already know that Casters can lead stacks. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0094.html) I don't know how to classify what we've seen (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0075.html) Archons do already (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0111.html) other than some form of 'casting,' or at least some hybrid therof.

[AngryAngel]

I am wondering, though, why all of these Archons are dressed in 'dance fighting' outfits rather than the flight attendant uniforms the original three were introduced in.


They were originally scheduled to join the Transylvito side/Vinnie's faction, and in fact some of them were already at the choke point before Charlie took matters into his own hands, so to speak...and I imagine Charlie likes all of his Archons to wear the same uniform...

There is another possibility: deception. The last time the coalition saw any Archons, they were dressed for 'dance fighting' and still on the coalition's side.
Now they aren't, but Charlie seems to want the coalition to think they are.

As to the numbers given for Charlescomm in the Stupid Meal, I'm pretty sure that was only the number of Archons whose services he had offered to the coalition. Think of it, if he only had 14-15 Archons, and just popped three more before they showed up at GK, that would mean Charlie had committed all of his forces, and left himself defenceless.

And who knows how many other jobs he's got going on? In order to have the reputation (and command the fees) he does, his Archons have got to be damned good, and in high demand. How many Archons are out serving as bodyguards for paranoid side rulers, or as enforcers, spies, etc?

I'd say recent events have proved that Charlie has at least 40 Archons, and probably many more than that.

[DigoDragon]

Hmmm, game hen and mashed potatoes for breakfast. Spiffy. :smallsmile:

[Charlicat]

In the Roman Empire, the heir to the throne (as well as the emperor himself) was referred to by the title of Caesar (named after Julius Caesar). Since the vampires are Italian, I think it's reasonable to infer that the lead vampire's name is Borgata, and Caesar is his title, indicating that he is the crown prince and possibly also the chief warlord (like Ansom).

Is it just me, or does Borgata look like Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer? :smallsmile:

[dr pepper]

In the Roman Empire, the heir to the throne (as well as the emperor himself) was referred to by the title of Caesar (named after Julius Caesar). Since the vampires are Italian, I think it's reasonable to infer that the lead vampire's name is Borgata, and Caesar is his title, indicating that he is the crown prince and possibly also the chief warlord (like Ansom).

That was fairly late in the imperial period.

In any case, the name "Caesar Borgata" is supposed to make us think, not of the old roman Caesars, but of a medieval personage, one Cesare Borgia. His was a family of intriguers, with a reputation for poison and betrayal. One of that family became Pope. Others became warlords.

Cesares Borgia's personal motto was "Cesare o Nolo" = "Caesar or Nothing", meaning he was prepared to risk everything to make himself as powerful and renowned as the original Caesar.

Btw, the italian "Cesare" is pronounced "Cheh-Suh-Ray", so i'm kind of disappointed that they didn't give him the nickname "Cheesy". Caesar "Cheesy" Borgata, now that's a mob name.

But what i'd like to know is, why hasn't there been an urgent call from the godfather to let them know that Charlie isn't coming?

[Dacia Brabant]

In the Roman Empire, the heir to the throne (as well as the emperor himself) was referred to by the title of Caesar (named after Julius Caesar). Since the vampires are Italian, I think it's reasonable to infer that the lead vampire's name is Borgata, and Caesar is his title, indicating that he is the crown prince and possibly also the chief warlord (like Ansom).

My guess is it's a spoof of Cesare Borgia, the infamous Italian Renaissance warlord of the even more infamous Borgia family (including his father, Pope Alexander).

Edit: ninja'd :smalltongue:

[Abzug]

Does Charlie have the ability to control a city? It appears that he is giving the impression that he can take GK with the angels, but is Charlie a faction leader or is he a barbarian leader? If he's a faction leader then he may be considering taking Parson to FAQ with his angels to seize that city. Could Charlie then give FAQ to Parson and in effect create a new side?

[ReccaSquirrel]

Here's my theory:

We know that Parson can't turn against Stanley.
We know that Parson and Charlie know how many arcons it takes to take GK.
We know that Charlie has an interest in Parson.

So I think Charlie's plan is to offer Parson a choice. "Join me and I'll use my archons to help the city win. Refuse to join me and I take the city myself."

As Parson knows there is enough units to take the city, the best way to keep the city and, thus, not turn against Stanley, is to accept the offer. Charlie gets Parson's services, and Parson has acted in the invested interest of Stanley.

[drachefly]

My guess is it's a spoof of Cesare Borgia, the infamous Italian Renaissance warlord of the even more infamous Borgia family (including his father, Pope Alexander).

I do hope you're both also aware of the two super-huge casinos, Caesars (a chain), and the Borgata (Atlantic City).

Cesare Borgia would be a great more meaningful historical reference which would be masked by the two casino references.

But also, considering that they ended the turn without Charlescomm forces on site, after Don King having received an offer he couldn't accept, one could consider that a hefty gamble.

We'll see.

~~~~

Also, in panel 4, it looks like someone forgot to take off their Sword Behind Inappropriate Prepositions in the morning.

[LordVader]

But what i'd like to know is, why hasn't there been an urgent call from the godfather to let them know that Charlie isn't coming?

Probably he can't because it's not his turn.

[OnDroid]

Probably he can't because it's not his turn.

It was .. one of his warlords just ended it ( or prepared for him to end ) :smallwink:

[SteveMB]

But what i'd like to know is, why hasn't there been an urgent call from the godfather to let them know that Charlie isn't coming?

If they moved to the choke point without the Archons, they already know that something's gone wrong with the plan to have the Archons working for Transylvito this turn. Apparently, they decided to go ahead with the forces they have.

EDIT: Checking back over Vinny's description of the plan, he said (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0111.html) that they'd all meet up at the choke point. So, he may expect the Archons to show up on Charlescomm's turn (which we know from the latest page is after Transylvito's and before Stanley's/Parson's). That still leaves the question of why the Don didn't call back to inform him that there's been a little problem... maybe he still thinks that Charlie is just haggling for a better deal, not deliberately pricing himself out of the market, and will call back during Charlescomm's turn with a more acceptable proposal.

[Richbin]

I don't understand - Parson did not act last turn - he was going to act (Ansom expects him to dig in but not act) but we have not seen him do anything.
Now it is dawn and he has not acted?!

Are they hiding actions from us? (to spring a suprise on us later?)
Were his actions consumed by the mathmancy?
If Parson does not signal his turn to end, does he sacrifice his turn ? I do not see why he could not delay the entire game indefinitely that way - a player basically stalling the bejeebers out of the game by 'considering' his next move, refusing to end his turn, while days stretch into weeks.
Because Parson can move freely (only gets tired) - he could (in theory) travel all of the world without letting anyone else move.... but that would be unsatisfying.

Will Charlie attack? No.
He is sending a clear message to Parson though - I have enough forces to take GK. Come with me, or face THE HARD WAY.
However, I am convinced he has some things up his sleeve.
We did not see Wanda, and I am SURE he must have already spoken to her off-camera and had Maggie apprise Tool of what is going on and give him the foolamancer's name... unless... Caesar IS the Tool thanks to the Foolamancers' mastery... I would love that...

Tool, is either on the way back to GK, or will indeed attack Charlie and take the arkendish while he has so many forces at GK, or... attack Vinny? But that last one is sooooo unimaginative... I expect far, far more from the creatos' twisted minds.

The last timne we saw Stanley, he was wistfully looking upon his dragons and knights as they camped. Perhaps regretting his abandon of GK? Perhaps questioning his quest? Perhaps missing Wanda?

I predict that the next strip will focus on Stanley.

So many updates, so little time...
I feel effusive, ebullient and giddy

[SteveMB]

I don't understand - Parson did not act last turn - he was going to act (Ansom expects him to dig in but not act) but we have not seen him do anything.
Now it is dawn and he has not acted?!

His turn doesn't start at dawn anymore -- splitting off the expeditionary force and allying it to Translyvito added* a new Transylvito turn at dawn, and Charlie's decision to avoid making a new contract with Transylvito made Charlescomm an independent side with its turn after Translyvito and before Plaid (Stanley/Parson). He hasn't yet had a turn since he wrote the last couple of Klog entries, so he hasn't yet acted (but he evidently has made plans).

*Actually, I'd guess that the mechanics of Erfworld have a set order for all extant sides during the day, but only the sides that are involved in a conflict are actually given a chunk of the day to act. Until now, Translyvito and Charlescomm had their turns automagically skipped over in an eyeblink, like a phase in a game turn where it's obvious that nothing relevant is going to happen -- all Coalition units were acting on Jetstone's turn.

[headhoncho]

So my bet on how to have our cake and eat it too is this- Charlie has shown up with enough archons to take GK and Parson absolutely knows this for a fact due to the mathemancy. However, due to the casualties he would take doing it, and the tenuous, most likely untenable, position that would leave him in vis-a-vis the now annoyed and likely hostile alliance units already in attack position around GK, I dont think Charlie actually *wants* to capture GK. He almost certainly couldnt hold it and he'd lose 19 archons in the process, and he didnt like losing 1.

I think this was a great analysis, and I also think this is what Charlie is thinking.

Where we diverge is that I think Parson also knows almost all of this, and will call Charlie's bluff. He will say, "I know you think you can take GK, but I have an ace up my sleeve that places the matter in doubt (the uncroaked air force buffed by a Croakmancer's enormous bonus to uncroaked troops, but he doesn't have to tell Charlie that), and what's more, I don't think you're going to sacrifice 90% of your archon force just in time to be on the receiving end of Ansom's turn with all of his anger and combined forces right after you just blew his plan out of the water."

So far, Charlie has shown himself to be the Magnificent Bastard. But I want to see Parson set him back on his heels by showing his OWN MB'ness. :)

[lovelyluthien]

EDIT: Checking back over Vinny's description of the plan, he said (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0111.html) that they'd all meet up at the choke point. So, he may expect the Archons to show up on Charlescomm's turn (which we know from the latest page is after Transylvito's and before Stanley's/Parson's). That still leaves the question of why the Don didn't call back to inform him that there's been a little problem... maybe he still thinks that Charlie is just haggling for a better deal, not deliberately pricing himself out of the market, and will call back during Charlescomm's turn with a more acceptable proposal.

Yes, Vinny did say that. But in the panel before that, he mentioned that they alreddy met up with more of Charlescomm forces. So I'm wondering - how did those react to Charlie's behaviour, and are they even still there? I can't make out any archons on page 104.

[fendrin]

EDIT: Checking back over Vinny's description of the plan, he said (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0111.html) that they'd all meet up at the choke point. So, he may expect the Archons to show up on Charlescomm's turn (which we know from the latest page is after Transylvito's and before Stanley's/Parson's). That still leaves the question of why the Don didn't call back to inform him that there's been a little problem... maybe he still thinks that Charlie is just haggling for a better deal, not deliberately pricing himself out of the market, and will call back during Charlescomm's turn with a more acceptable proposal.

Vinny and Jillian already know. We see on the current page that there are not any archons with them. That means the remaining two of the original archon trio and whatever additional archons they met up with prior to vinny's call to Don King (as pointed out by lovelyluthien) would have received new orders and not gone with V&J to the choke point rendezvous.

Alternately, Charlie could be still allied with Transylvito. As far as we know Charlie never outright agreed to break that alliance, and even if he asked an exorbitant price, Don King might have paid it... Charlie could still issue new orders, depending on his agreement with DK... in fact, Charlie might have used the information he got from Parson's mathamancy efforts to effectively bargain with DK.

[kreszantas]

After looking at panel 1 some more I also think the Super Mario could be dress like the comedy Police Academy movie, and the village people "cop" singer which is in that era of music.

[Ayrynthyn]

The net is definitely for Parson, but what if Charlie's got transportation, not capture on his mind. With his current status as ally/former ally/not yet discovered quasi deceiver to the coalition... the archons could pass over the column relatively unmolested taking up where the dragons left off... croaking the remaining siege, or perhaps unleashing parson himself on say... Ansom. I think Charlie's got a much better idea of what Parson's capable of than he (parson) does.

:smallredface:

[DMcCoy1693]

I know I haven't said it enough (since the last time I said it was Jan 08), but this comic is great. thank you guys for keeping ot producing it.

Caeser Borgata. New Jersey thanks you.

[pirateking89]

I know I haven't said it enough (since the last time I said it was Jan 08), but this comic is great. thank you guys for keeping ot producing it.

Caeser Borgata. New Jersey thanks you.
I obviously missed the Caesar Borgata reference then. Can someone explain?

[Doctor Zuber]

It boggles my mind the number of people who seem to be convinced with this theory that Charlie is going to offer a "Do it or Die" choice to Parson....

First, if 14 archons is a LOSS, 18 archons is far from a flawless victory. Charlie doesn't like losing his Arcons. Besides which Parson has a nasty habit of pulling rabbits out of his hats.

Next, Charlie has been in Parson's mind, not to mention Charlie is presumably familiar with the concepts of Duty, loyalty, etc... Fact is that Parson is not only unwilling but unable to surrender at this point. It would conflict with his duty to Stanley the Tool.

This whole half baked theory seems to be based off of how Charlie spent his mathemancy rolls. Just because Charlie calculated how many Archons it would take to attack GK, doesn't mean Charlie has any intention of attacking. If Charlie joins the Coalition as planned his Archons may well be ordered to Attack GK. Therefore, it makes a lot of sense for Charlie to want to know just how costly this decision would be before accepting or declining transylvito's offer.

His current words to Parson certainly don't have the sound of a do or die ultimatum. "...a solution to your predicament..." does not sound like a do it or die statement to me.

I'm expecting something unexpected here to be honest. I think there's an out of the box solution here that Charlie has come up with. I'm not quite sure what it is yet, but I seriously doubt it's blackmail. Nor do I think it's delivery for an audience to Stanley.

[fehler]

Charlie doesn't double-deal. His deal w/ Parson was cemented _before_ he learned how may archons he needed. Of course, he was playing w/ Parson, and maybe he already knew the answer. Then again, if he really wanted the city he could have had it himself earlier without joining Jetstone's alliance. His motives are unclear, but he seems to be "playing for fun".

My guess: Parson's "problem" is that he lost use of the Situtation Room. Without the eye-mancers, he's relying on runners for information. But from a lofty, archon-supplied ariel perch, he w/ Maggie could issue all the orders he needs for defending the outer walls and/or destroying the remaining seige. In "realtime".

As for Charlies's turn, he just used the multi-faction rules in his favor, positioning units and using move on his independant turn, now allying w/ Plaid to get refreshed movement on Plaid's turn. Same mechanism Jetstone and Translyvito are using. With not making the switch "offical" until now, the archons also avoided flying over enemy archy and get their hitsies.

[Occasional Sage]

Here's a thought.

Parson's Leadership bonus automatically applies to everything in GK, making it a de facto part of his calculations for Charlie. But what about variable bonuses? We don't know the parameters and assumptions on which Charlie's questions were based, nor how much Parson would or did feel compelled ot volunteer beyond the scope of the questions.

I'm thinking specifically of the bonuses leaders give to their stacks, and some special ones (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0094.html) that aren't commonly seem in Erfworld. Might Parson have concealed those factors in his answers? If so, the answer to the second question might be *very different* than Charlie is expecting.

[Lamech]

I just had a thought what if the reason all the archons are there is just to make Charlie look like a good person who Parson would want to work with. Charlie is saying "look I'm here to save you if you want to join my side. Also even though I could capture you by force I won't." That should put Charlie in a good position with Parson, and after Parson wins he should hopefully be able to put in a good word with the Tool, or maybe just give Charlie mathamancy services in addition to his mercenary work and intelligence gathering ablities, (as part of a business deal).

[dr pepper]

I do hope you're both also aware of the two super-huge casinos, Caesars (a chain), and the Borgata (Atlantic City).

Cesare Borgia would be a great more meaningful historical reference which would be masked by the two casino references.



Nope. I did not know that. Guess the authors were ahead of me. But i stand by the "Cheesy" comment.

[Yogi]

On a completely unrelated note, Bogroll is a pretty good cook.

[Doctor Zuber]

The little details that get put into this comic are really cool. Our writer must be quite worldly indeed to slip in some of these more obscure referances.

I certainly would not have gotten some of these jokes without all the web monkeys here hunting down details. The Cesare Borgia thing is quite clever. I did notice the attention to detail with different eye-book sound effects for different people. But I still have to admire the attention to detail.

[fendrin]

The little details that get put into this comic are really cool. Our writer must be quite worldly indeed to slip in some of these more obscure referances.

I certainly would not have gotten some of these jokes without all the web monkeys here hunting down details. The Cesare Borgia thing is quite clever. I did notice the attention to detail with different eye-book sound effects for different people. But I still have to admire the attention to detail.

I completely agree with you... but writers do research too, you know... a google search for 'italian warlord' produces a link about Cesare Borgia on the first page.

I'm not saying Rob isn't worldly, but I'd eat my hat if I found out he had written everything without doing any research.

Or at least I would if I owned a hat.

[Vreejack]

So. I don't think anyone has spelled it out but is Charlie going to use the established fact that he can conquer Gobwin Knob with x archons to demand Parson's surrender? He wants Parson alive, if not as a captive then at least to provide the ten remaining calculations. But once he's Charlie's minion Parson's free will is history. Let's face it, if ordinary Overlords can apply loyalty spells, Charlie's must be killer.

But does Charlie understand Parson? Parson doesn't want to escape; he wants to beat Ansom. He's already said that if he just surrendered he'd always wonder if he could have won, and so he wanted to play it out. I don't see how surrendering to Charlie is going to be the "solution" to any of Parson's problems.

[jtheory]

I think Parson's conversation with Sizemore (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0114.html), a few pages back, is going to be playing a more significant role in the upcoming maneuverings than the comments so far seem to account for. I have to think Sizemore's "Then I think I have to hate you" must have come as a cold slap of reality. Erfworld's inhabitants look like bizarre game pieces; their lives follow rules like Parson's games; but this is not a game.

This realization is central to Parson's entire role in this story... he's been sorting it out bit by bit.

Not that I know what's happening with Charlie -- he's definitely a wildcard here -- but I think Parson's decisions in the next few pages will show him angling to avoid the bloodbath he has in wait for the forces in the tunnels.

[Vreejack]

I count 18 Archons (or other glowy flying things) in panel 9, and 16 definite Archons in panel 12... Does that mean Charlie is going for it?

It seems clear that he wants Parson on or in that net. Parson is probably a little bit reluctant to become a mind slave, however.

There could be as many as twenty flying things there, unless one of them is an arm and the other a stray bird or cloud or something.

[SSLRranma]

Just some thoughts i had about the comic.

What if the net isn't to capture something, but has something in it? Maybe a captured ally they are returning? Or maybe it has something else in it like some items?

Second is, No one can see Parson's stats, and they only thing they know is he has a leadership bonus. Maybe he has no stats, including loyalty, duty, etc. Maybe the only reason he is staying is because he wants to see things through. Remember, he is an alien to this world, so this worlds physics do not totally affect him.

[Zolem]

Hey if Charlie ISN'T from our world I think Parson could BS his way out of any capturing. (Assuming archons can see stats.) Parson can claim he isn't actually there (he has no stats like EVERY other unit), or let the Archon's "call" him on his trick. Then he can let the Archons wonder around GK until they've decided he isn't really there. They'll think this is some trick so he can lead while being else where. This is assuming again that won't capture him just in case.

I think I only have three major assumptions there, thats pretty low for a theory.:smalleek:

...if that works Parson Wins Infinant Inter-nets...I wonder if the net's are a comunication device, as a pun on the internet?

[Wender]

I very much like the idea that Charlie is going to help Parson by giving him a superb and well-defended capability to survey the battle. I also think the sheer number of Archons is a reminder that, although they have a deal, Charlie has the undisputed upper hand.

If he's leaving, I don't see how he can leave on Charlie's turn, though. As far as we know, he has not relayed the Foolamancer's name to Stanley, or even tried (assuming of course that anyone knows it--presumably Maggie does?). He doesn't have his sword yet. I don't think he can actually issue orders off turn, either, only plan them. So unless he's just going to light out and leave Sizemorea, Maggie and Bogroll to their fates he can't leave now. Which leaves the Archons in GK on Ansom's turn. Which makes the assault through the walls a non-starter just as Parson puts the hurt on Jetstone in the tunnels.

Unless, of course, Parson has been thinking of a way to avoid earning Sizemore's hatred. That could be a lethal mistake, but one that someone like Parson (who, genius notwithstanding, is not a hardened warrior) would make. He might even get it to pay off if the Archons can take advantage of the choke points they emerged through to fry them as they reach the surface.

On the other side, Caesar just made a serious mistake. "Chickie" was put in charge by Ansom himself, there's already a wedge between Jetstone and Transylvito, and King Don just drove it deeper by losing Charlie and blowing the most important part of the strategy as far as Ansom is concerned. But if they've been apprised of events, will most? all? of Transylvito's warlords accept her leadership, Ansom or no? Apparently not. This could get ugly quickly. Unfortunately, as Jillian was fond of pointing out at the beginning, there are no 'mancers around to phone home. They'll have to sort this all out where they are, and it appears that 'vito have the superior forces if it comes to that.

The whole battlefield could change drastically in the next two turns. Amazing.

[teratorn]

I don't see how surrendering to Charlie is going to be the "solution" to any of Parson's problems.

Yes, and it would be lame. We were promised a huge battle, not a wimpy surrender.

[The_JJ]

It's simple, Parson = warlord = selective attacking ala dragons & Leeroy, etc. = no siege = Parson alive, well, and even more indebted then ever (more mathmancy, e.g.) & only mildly damaged coalition = Charlie Victory.

Parson will of course say no, because we will not stand for such a cheap and easy victory after all this build up.

[chaoschristian]

Second is, No one can see Parson's stats, and they only thing they know is he has a leadership bonus. Maybe he has no stats, including loyalty, duty, etc. Maybe the only reason he is staying is because he wants to see things through. Remember, he is an alien to this world, so this worlds physics do not totally affect him.

But Parson was forced to laugh when The Tool ordered him to laugh at his lame attempts at humor.

[Doctor Zuber]

...Sizemore's "Then I think I have to hate you" must have come as a cold slap of reality. Erfworld's inhabitants look like bizarre game pieces; their lives follow rules like Parson's games; but this is not a game.

I liked this bit myself. But you have to realize that Parson missed the bit where Sizemore was out trying to get lessons in hippie magic. Sizemore longs for a much friendlier place. =P Parson on the other hand, is more pragmatic about these things.

[Laurentio II]

Nope. I did not know that. Guess the authors were ahead of me. But i stand by the "Cheesy" comment.
He is blond. "Cheesehead" is more fitting.

One through: the net is hardly for a capture. There are more that ten meters between the Archons and the door. Even a fat-blog like Parson (that, incidentally, is only slightly more obese than me) can make a step backward before they capture him.
The most obvious use of a net is over the target, not before.

So, capture is probably out of the frame.

What if it's not a net at all? Speculation?

[chaoschristian]

What if it's not a net at all? Speculation?

It's the ArkenCape, a sparkly, sequin mantle that provides the wearer with instant faction leader status and the ability for perfect karaoke. Charlie has possession of it, but wasn't attuned to it/didn't need it, and so is presenting it to Parson so that he can run GK independent of The Tool.

[DariusAPB]

We know magic carpets exist in this universe, maybe it's one of those?
Remember, Archons can fly, parson and his retinue (if any) cannot.

[SteveMB]

The other question: If he's offering Parson something other than an opportunity to surrender and get airlifted out, what price will he want? He's already extracted a fairly significant price for simply bowing out....

[Richbin]

Part of the deal that Parson struck struck me as a little odd.
He is to provide Charlie with Mathamancy calculations AT ANY TIME.
What if this is one of those times, and it requires parson to go elsewhere...?
Just a thought.

[fendrin]

Part of the deal that Parson struck struck me as a little odd.
He is to provide Charlie with Mathamancy calculations AT ANY TIME.
What if this is one of those times, and it requires parson to go elsewhere...?
Just a thought.

Unlikely. Charlie is a master of Thinkamancy, he can contact Parson at any time, no matter where Parson is. Parson can do the calculations anywhere. The only reason he would have to go anywhere would be if he needed more data, and decided to collect it first-hand. but as far as we can tell the contract is for calculations only. Charlie would have to be responsible for data collection.

[Laurentio II]

The other question: If he's offering Parson something other than an opportunity to surrender and get airlifted out, what price will he want? He's already extracted a fairly significant price for simply bowing out....
Leadership. When you deal with the Devil, he will always give a lot for just a little from you. Then, when you are addicted or in trouble, he will ask your soul for the quarter you need to call your lawman.

Parson is not only a Mathmancer, he is a great leader, a strategist and a fine guy to chat with (it helps when you are already surrounded with chicks you can have sex with). By accepting the "math consultancy" deal, he already compromised himself, even against Stanley.

Last wild guest: The net is glowing. Does anything the Archons bring glow by default, or is it a sign of something?

Ah... this comics is breaking my brain.

[jindra34]

If Charlie is a master thinkamancer would it not be possible for him to allow PArson to lead the battle from a different location? thus he could ensure that parson still got to fight the battle (which parson wants) but that if Gobwin Knob falls parson will still be safe (and owe a bigger debt to charlie, which is what charliue wants). SO maybe this is just a simple asset protection manuveur by charlie... though i doubt it.

[Nargrakhan]

But Parson was forced to laugh when The Tool ordered him to laugh at his lame attempts at humor.

True. But Parson was also able to subvert showing respect to Stanley, by having him called a "Tool". It appears that "direct" application of loyalty/duty affects Parson (like being forced to do something), but when given a choice in the matter (indirect application), Parson seems to have more freewill... or at least that's what in question.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

I don't know if someone has already suggested it, but for some reason i see Bogroll getting into the net as a bluff towards either Charlie (less likely) or Ansom, as in Parson is already bugging out and it'll be an easy victory for the Alliance. If it ever happens (the replacement of Parson by Bogroll) we can't say they didn't shown it to us before.

[SteveMB]

I don't know if someone has already suggested it, but for some reason i see Bogroll getting into the net as a bluff towards either Charlie (less likely) or Ansom, as in Parson is already bugging out and it'll be an easy victory for the Alliance. If it ever happens (the replacement of Parson by Bogroll) we can't say they didn't shown it to us before.

That's just silly. Casters and warlords can see stats (except that Parson's are invisible for some reason); Bogroll is obviously not a warlord.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

yeah, i know, but who knows? this story is getting enough twist to get a 'silly' idea possible with some unknown mechanics. Could be more likely if the Foolamancer was around.

[chaoschristian]

True. But Parson was also able to subvert showing respect to Stanley, by having him called a "Tool". It appears that "direct" application of loyalty/duty affects Parson (like being forced to do something), but when given a choice in the matter (indirect application), Parson seems to have more freewill... or at least that's what in question.

Noted. There seems to be both a mechanic (Duty) and some level of discretion within the mechanic (Wanda's ability and willingness to manipulate just about everyone around her, including The Tool toward whom she is obligated.)

Now is that a function of the interplay between the unknowable Loyalty stat and the Duty Mechanic? Is that how free will is expressed in Erfworld?

[SSLRranma]

It's the ArkenCape, a sparkly, sequin mantle that provides the wearer with instant faction leader status and the ability for perfect karaoke. Charlie has possession of it, but wasn't attuned to it/didn't need it, and so is presenting it to Parson so that he can run GK independent of The Tool.

I think Parson is only forced to Laugh/"Be Silent until ordered to" is because of the spell placed upon him from when he was summoned. If anything its forcing him to do what Stanley says out of Compulsion rather then some kind of mind control/suggestion spell.

[Richbin]

The Mind Control spell would be an integral part of the summoning spell.
The Mind control component that was in discussion was duty or loyalty, and all of the above seem to be open to 'interpretation'.

Wanda answers all the questions asks her truthfully, as she should or must (he is her warlord), but answers to the letter and not the spirit, which is what Parson did with Tool as well.
He tried to ask others to command him to speak (knowing full well that it went against Stanley's will) in the same way.

I suspect Jillian in a master lawyer from her years of servitude to Stanley as well as others (such as the FAQ King), and in fact, going to save tool served HER best interest as well. She felt not only that HIS best intentions were being served, but also her own, so heart and mind are aligned.

The look of subtle shock, disbelief and surprise on her face was priceless in the previous strip when Parsons' took initiative to save Stanley (at Charleys' recommendation mind you). She has always been shown as the 'take charge', type A personality who had to take care of the boopin mess. To see someone capable of making decisions she is infuenced by for the better is, i am sure... both comforting and disconcerting to her at the same time. Quite out of her control, meaning.

On a side note - I would LOVE to see her laugh... kind of like Wednesday Adams' smile, that freaked everyone out... (or maybe a little like Hancock's as well... but less sinister)

Bogroll commented that he would love ot save Parson's life, we have Sizemore commenting that it is nice to have a warlord who 'gets' humour again (although now he has to hate him... ), and we have Wanda who is faced with a situation where a warlord is addressing her concerns before she voices them, relieving her of the heavy burden of always thinking for everyone. Who's next? Maggie? She has proactively cast a 'Phedrin' spell, recognizing that his mind is their best weapon... and this from a Thinkamancer. High praise indeed.

Time for Parson to either fail or shine... I do not know what will happen next, and remain ion pins and needles for the upcoming denouement.

[SSLRranma]

The Mind Control spell would be an integral part of the summoning spell. The Mind control component that was in discussion was duty or loyalty, and all of the above seem to be open to 'interpretation'.


Like i said, i Don't think its a Brain Washing.(Controlling every thought and action) spell otherwise Parson would pretty much be thinking Stanley is great. It's not really a suggestion(Making someone do something by making them think what their are doing is their own) spell because the control Stanley has isn't very subtle. Like i said before, i believe its more a compulsion spell, which forces him to do what Stanley says. So far the control has only been physical(Stand up on Page 19, Laughter on page 23, Forbidding Speech on Page 32).

Also, He seemed to be resisting it at first on page 19. It was also said if he didn't obey it would kill him outright. Wanda also said the spell Compels him to do something(Page 23), Rather then just do it. So odds are he CAN fight the compulsion if needed, but as said earlier, it could kill him.

Now looking back at what i said in my first post, maybe 'Brain Washing' would have been better word then Mind Control(which is a pretty broad category).



Wanda answers all the questions asks her truthfully, as she should or must (he is her warlord), but answers to the letter and not the spirit, which is what Parson did with Tool as well. He tried to ask others to command him to speak (knowing full well that it went against Stanley's will) in the same way.

I suspect Jillian in a master lawyer from her years of servitude to Stanley as well as others (such as the FAQ King), and in fact, going to save tool served HER best interest as well. She felt not only that HIS best intentions were being served, but also her own, so heart and mind are aligned.


Actually, Wanda's Loyalty and Duty force her do whats best for Stanley so if she needs to lie to him, she can if it is in his best interest. Right now i do not think she had a reason to lie to him. On top of that there could be other mechanics in play that have yet to be Explained/Written in like Love.

Do you mean Wanda in the 2nd paragraph? Anyway, if anything i don't think its just Loyalty there with Wanda and Stanley, but we have no idea how 'love' works in Erfworld and it could just be a separate mechanic just not explained yet. 'Love' and 'Hate' were somewhat explained on page 72 for the suggestion spell but not really in depth. The reason i say Wanda loves Stanley is on page 48, but that could just be her trying to manipulate him into what she thinks is best for him.

[Firest]

Just how much money does Parson have to play with here? Could the net be for carrying away treasure as payment for the services of some of the Archons?

[ThreeEyedOni]

*snicker* I love the Transylvito force. How can it fail to kick ass with Super Mario in its ranks?

Actually, I kind of thought that the guy on the far left was an Easy Rider reference. It would make some sense, if you look at the Transylvito as being homages to the popular media of the time instead of just sterotypes.

Also, Mario seems a little out-of-setting.

[SSLRranma]

Just how much money does Parson have to play with here? Could the net be for carrying away treasure as payment for the services of some of the Archons?

When Stanley payed for the scroll, originally it was going to cost 500,000 Schmuckers and that was going to wipe him out. But since he had Wanda cast it instead of hiring someone, it was bumped down to 350,000. So we know he should have around 150,000 left. Not sure about how much he earns and how much upkeep he pays though but 150k should still be a lot.

[Calmness]

Hmmm, i'm still thinking Stanley won't have to fight. He will remember the Foolamancer's name just in time for a veil that makes them avoid the Vampire Warlords. I love those guys by the way, a nice refreshing change from what i expected would be stereotypical vampire lords. Nice job.

[Doctor Zuber]

Hmmm, i'm still thinking Stanley won't have to fight. He will remember the Foolamancer's name just in time for a veil that makes them avoid the Vampire Warlords. I love those guys by the way, a nice refreshing change from what i expected would be stereotypical vampire lords. Nice job.

This remembering you speak of requires Stanley to have once known the name of the foolamancer. It was clearly stated that he never cared enough to learn his name.

[Wender]

This remembering you speak of requires Stanley to have once known the name of the foolamancer. It was clearly stated that he never cared enough to learn his name.

If anyone in Gobwin Knob remembers it, Maggie should be able to get it to him at the start of his turn. Then he can veil for real.

Who knows how dysfunctional the Transylvito stack will be by then, since Jillian does not seem eager to relinquish the control that Ansom himself gave her, especially not to a Vinnie-come-lately who calls her "Chickie" and talks to her in a patronizing tone.

There are certainly no guarantees. Right now the whole battle is in flux.

[Doctor Zuber]

Come to think on it. I don't think Stanley cares enough to learn most peoples names. If you'll notice he always refers to Sizemore as "that dirt guy" or some similar term. Wendy was simply named Lookmancer, the foolamancer is simply the fool, and I very much suspect that if Stanley ever addressed Maggie she was simply the thinkmancer to him. I'll have to look back to see if he ever refers to Bogroll by name. I'm kind of doubting it right now.

Wanda is really the one exception among the spellcasters. I would imagine she has proved herself sufficiently useful for Stanley to recognize her existance. Otherwise, the only people Stanley seems to refer to by name are warlords. Having once been a warlord himself, I guess he has a small amount of respect for other warlords. He even remembered Leroy Jenkins.

[Calmness]

Huh, according to this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0102.html) Maggie is the one who never learned the Foolamancer's name, Stanley simply does not recall it, don't understimate his toolship Doc.:smallsmile:

Not that it makes much of a difference, really Stanley will probably need outside intereference to remember it.

[teratorn]

I wonder if the net's are a comunication device, as a pun on the internet?

Possible, but the archons are carrying that as someone laying a trap...

[the_tick_rules]

So many possibles. Charlie lending direct combat support? Or is he planning to take the city so if Stan bites it all of GK becomes Charlie's and let Hamster and his friends become his crew?

[Richbin]

"Do you mean Wanda in the 2nd paragraph?"

Yes, i apologize for the logorrhea.

And I daresay, I do not think she loves the tool, there is some other dynamic at play. She does not respect him, does not desire him, manipulates him... oh wait, maybe she's married to him (runs away and hides now)

[Lamech]

That's just silly. Casters and warlords can see stats (except that Parson's are invisible for some reason); Bogroll is obviously not a warlord.
Ohh... my your right, the archons could see stats, and if the would be impersonator isn't a warlord they would get caught. Of course, depending on unit stats would be problematic, in Parson's case, and since units can be promoted... I think they could very well walk away with the wrong unit.:smallamused:

[Richbin]

However, the Thinkamancer could very well make them believe that there is a cloaking spell in effect, and Wanda, knowing so many different schools, might well know a foolamancy spell to create a micro-veil... ok, in Parson;s case a mini-veil...

[PePe QuiCoSE]

well, on that subject, we don't know how many people know that Parson's stats don't show up outside from GK. Or if there are people that have a grasp of what meaning it could have.

[SteveMB]

well, on that subject, we don't know how many people know that Parson's stats don't show up outside from GK. Or if there are people that have a grasp of what meaning it could have.

Presumably nobody, since nobody outside GK has ever seen him directly. (Ansom never indicated any surprise at not seeing his stats via Thinkagram, which suggests that stats generally don't show up in Thinkagrams.)

Exception: If Charlie's hax include reading Parson's Klog entries, then he knows.

It's probably not all that useful in itself. It's not as if he could bluff and claim to have a mega-Leadership stat -- once in contact with his units, the enemy could infer from their abilities (including the Chief Warlord bonus) that he just isn't that impressive in pure stat-mechanic terms.

[fehler]

Since this foolamancer seems to be the same that came from FAQ, I would assume Wanda knows the name. She just hasn't been asked for it yet. Or henchmen like Bogroll, since his job was to disperse Stanleys orders (which were in the order of "tell the turd guy to get turding, and send Wanda up to the office"), Bogroll would know the proper names and titles and use them respectfully. I'd think Rockwell should know his name, but he didn't know Misty's name, so its possible he's out of the loop, too.

[SteveMB]

Since this foolamancer seems to be the same that came from FAQ, I would assume Wanda knows the name. She just hasn't been asked for it yet. Or henchmen like Bogroll, since his job was to disperse Stanleys orders (which were in the order of "tell the turd guy to get turding, and send Wanda up to the office"), Bogroll would know the proper names and titles and use them respectfully. I'd think Rockwell should know his name, but he didn't know Misty's name, so its possible he's out of the loop, too.

I'm guessing that Wanda would be the most likely to know the Foolamancer's name (but hasn't been asked yet because more pressing matters have occupied her, and Parson's, attention ever since she got back on speaking terms with the universe outside her skull).

Good point -- it's possible that Bogroll might know if he ever had occasion to relay Stanley's orders to the Foolamancer. OTOH, if Stanley got his "shrewd idea" shortly after acquiring the Foolamancer, maybe not.

[Misvit]

Didn't read all the posts so maybe this was already asked.... We still don't know Parson's stats, right? Like not only don't we, but neither does he when he checks himself? Meaning, in any battle involving himself, couldn't Parson just give Charlie a "sorry bloke, too many variables on that one, can't calculate"

[fendrin]

Didn't read all the posts so maybe this was already asked.... We still don't know Parson's stats, right? Like not only don't we, but neither does he when he checks himself? Meaning, in any battle involving himself, couldn't Parson just give Charlie a "sorry bloke, too many variables on that one, can't calculate"

Interesting point... unless the gauntlet knows!

[SteveMB]

Didn't read all the posts so maybe this was already asked.... We still don't know Parson's stats, right? Like not only don't we, but neither does he when he checks himself? Meaning, in any battle involving himself, couldn't Parson just give Charlie a "sorry bloke, too many variables on that one, can't calculate"

His Leadership bonus is known (value 2 -- inferred from his effect on other GK units). That's the one that would have the most significant effect on battles involving his side.

[valce]

Hmm...

There are archers on the walls right? And no functional warlords? Doesn't this suggest that Charlie's already got some sort of arrangement with Parson, since the archers didn't auto-engage the archons?

Or are the gobwin archers just too puny to do anything to the archons...? :P

Also, Charlie seems like he would make a good villain, and/or a good 'chessmaster hero.' The latter would require some larger problem/bigger bastard to pop up, though.

[Justyn]

Hmm...

There are archers on the walls right? And no functional warlords? Doesn't this suggest that Charlie's already got some sort of arrangement with Parson, since the archers didn't auto-engage the archons?

Or are the gobwin archers just too puny to do anything to the archons...? :P

Also, Charlie seems like he would make a good villain, and/or a good 'chessmaster hero.' The latter would require some larger problem/bigger bastard to pop up, though.

I assumed that from the sound effects that the Archons teleported in.

[fendrin]

I assumed that from the sound effects that the Archons teleported in.

Those are the sentry's horns, as seen here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0104.html).

[SteveMB]

Hmm...

There are archers on the walls right? And no functional warlords?

There are two uncroaked warlords left; maybe that's where they're stationed. (It would also explain why the archers apparently didn't auto-attack Jillian's group when it overflew the city.)

[fendrin]

There are two uncroaked warlords left; maybe that's where they're stationed. (It would also explain why the archers apparently didn't auto-attack Jillian's group when it overflew the city.)

Alternately, The entirety of GK is one hex (or treated as such by virtue of being a city or capital), and thus all units are 'led' by Parson.

[Lamech]

I'm betting the archers are in the garrison so they can attack air units with out fear of retaliation. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0109.html)

[ThreeEyedOni]

Actually, I kind of thought that the guy on the far left was an Easy Rider reference. It would make some sense, if you look at the Transylvito as being homages to the popular media of the time instead of just sterotypes.

Also, Mario seems a little out-of-setting.

OK, it's confirmed; the design was originally a "Mario" analog.

Leather Daddy Mario indeed, though. o_O Maybe he finally kicked the shrooms.

[jami]

I'm curious. How is anything confirmed if neither Rob nor I have said anything to that effect? ;P

[teratorn]

OK, it's confirmed; the design was originally a "Mario" analog.

Huh? Where and when was it confirmed?

[fendrin]

I'm curious. How is anything confirmed if neither Rob nor I have said anything to that effect? ;P

I'd say this means it's officially un-confirmed. Which is not to say it's wrong, just not certain. :smallamused:

[pclips]

I'm curious. How is anything confirmed if neither Rob nor I have said anything to that effect? ;P

Actually this guy emailed me and asked about it. Since he was curious, I confirmed there was a suggestion for a Mario analogue in the original script. That'll teach me. :smalltongue:

But as I said to him in that email, the script is nowhere near the end of it. The visual side of Erfworld is all out of Jamie's imagination. In the script for that panel, I made a bunch of suggestions and Jamie went to town, picking up on some and dropping others.

Now, the fact that I think that one Transylvitian Warlord looks like a leather daddy Mario doesn't have as much bearing on Erfworld "reality" as you'd think. It's barely more than a random reader's interpretation, because that detail is nothing we even discussed in production.

Still, it might develop into something. When Jamie lays down all of these wild and awesome and funny visual elements, then a lot of the time I will pick up on them and write to the art. The concept of Leather Mario is frankly hysterical and very much in the Erfworld vein of humor, so maybe.

But probably, observing the thing has changed it. I doubt we'll see Leather Daddy Mario outside of the inevitable slashfic. :smalleek:

[Occasional Sage]

*snip*
I doubt we'll see Leather Daddy Mario outside of the inevitable slashfic. :smalleek:


Man, I hadn't gone there. Can somebody pass me the bleach? My eyes need cleansing now.

[dr pepper]

I'm curious. How is anything confirmed if neither Rob nor I have said anything to that effect? ;P

Thinkomancy.

[Idless]

Also... I don't think Parson would ditch the city. Not just because of any loyalty or duty magics... but just because Parson doesn't seem to be the type, who'd abandon friends in their greatest time of need. GK will certainly fall without Parson. He knows it. They know it.

Magic compulsion or not: Parson will stay, so long as people counting on him are alive.

Besides, he has a strong winner mentality, and I don't think he likes to quit, when he gets a chance at doing the impossible!

And Charlie is too intruiged with the fact that Parson can actually pull of the impossible...


...Idless

[Misvit]

I still don't buy the idea that Parson's only known stat (leadership) would be enough for the glove to calculate the numbers. For all we or Parson knows, he has arkentool type powers (breathes fire out of his boop and shoots lightning out his eyes anyone?). That alone would at least give Parson enough of a vague answer to waste another of Charlie's questions.

[Richbin]

On that vein, with his stupid meal, hopefully his stats will show that he has levelled up (at least his leadership score). He has evidenced care for his casters, superior thinking and strategy at every turn, and has shown everyone respect and is gaining theirs back.
I wonder how much it takes to go up more than just '2', the equivalent of Webinars' girlfriend?