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Leliel
2008-08-11, 03:27 PM
Firstly, this is not a thread speculating about Wizards releasing Ravenloft for 4E.

It assumes they won't, and as such, I am updating it myself.

Anyway, I want to run an adventure arc in that pseudo-real place of infinte misery, the Nightmare Lands, but I have no idea of how to update the creatures that live within it to 4th edition from 2nd.

Secondly, this idea is for an all-lycanthrope game-as in, the PCs were normal adventurers before but a cursed sword turned them into werebeasts-and I have no idea which member of the Nightmare Court has perveiw over lycans.

So, could you help a fellow out?

Tormsskull
2008-08-11, 03:57 PM
I hate to be discouraging, but Ravenloft will be difficult for 4e I think. The setting relies much on despair, hopelessness, difficult choices, etc, which 4e doesn't handle really well.

Though, I suppose if all of your characters are werebeasts they probably won't be much afraid of the stuff your average human is, but then it begs the question, why do Ravenloft and not in stead do a generic campaign that you might be able to dress up to better suit and all werebeast group?

Good luck.

Tadanori Oyama
2008-08-11, 04:27 PM
4E defaults into a "points of light" setting with civilization in the decline after the fall of a great empire. Villages and towns are far between with little contact.

It's very well set for a despair and hopelessness style campaign. You play up the crumbling nature of the villages, make the sky bleek, and do all the normal creepy touches, you should be fine with almost a straight up game.

For lycans your more or less on your own since 4E removed them as a template. I imagine we'll see the return of said template in future supliments but for now it's homebrewing all the way.

I never played Ravenloft, I know only second hand things.

Your best bet is to get hold of the 4E monster manuel and just flip through the creatures. When you find one that does something like what you want, use the stats and change the description you give the players.

For example, I'm running a nasty campaign where the players are on the run from this progressive salt waste that's claiming the world. It spawns salt monsters that pull blood out of anything near them and savagely attack whatever moves.

Kruthiks in the manuel have an aura attack the deals damage to things who end their turn next to a the monster, they have nasty claws attacks (and poisons at higher levels), and their properly leveled for my players' characters. So, I use the Kruthik stat block and just tell the players their fighting something different. They don't even know I'm recycling monster stats.

The Nightmare Lands sound close enough to the Shadowfell to use that but there's is no information on the specifics of any of the other planes in the current books. Manuels of the Planes isn't coming for a year or more, which pisses me off completely. So, for now, location is DYI.

Hope some of that helps.

Jerthanis
2008-08-11, 04:42 PM
For an issue of creeping horror, do a lot of monsters that do relatively little damage, but drain a healing surge when they hit. At first your players will not really notice, then when they have two surges left, it starts to dawn on them that they may not make it through another fight if it comes.

Even better: the player loses healing surges as an ongoing effect, save ends.

Then mix those monsters up with some undead that heal their allies and hurt your PCs in an aura and they will be more than happy to solve most problems by running from them.

I don't know what to suggest for Lycanthrope player characters, as the Monster Manual Lycanthropes are a little bit too strong in the hands of players, since they regenerate pretty much any damage in a matter of moments and don't NEED to rely on healing surges. You could just give them higher stats and a Daily power to shift into a Hybrid form until the end of the encounter or something. This is pretty much up to you and what kind of tone you want to go for. I have trouble seeing Werewolves as anything other than Superhero Environmentalists, so I'm really not sure what to suggest for playing them in a horror game.

Kurald Galain
2008-08-11, 06:05 PM
I hate to be discouraging, but Ravenloft will be difficult for 4e I think. The setting relies much on despair, hopelessness, difficult choices, etc, which 4e doesn't handle really well.

I agree with that. The whole point of Ravenloft is that you can injure, insanify, cripple and otherwise disadvantage your player characters. The whole point of 4E is that player characters are expected to always be at their maximum efficiciency level. That's a big contradiction, right of the hook.

Also, Ravenloft really isn't all that combat-heavy. And if you don't want a combat-heavy campaign, there isn't all that big an incentive to use 4E - you don't use a hammer to put screws in your walls.

wodan46
2008-08-11, 06:26 PM
Just use the Disease system, and use it for Curses and Injuries and the like.

Also, Ravenloft IS going to show up in 4e, they've said such, but not for several years, so you might as well get to work in the mean time.

Aren't the Shifters supposed to be part Lycan? Perhaps you could expand from them.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-08-11, 06:41 PM
I think you can get Ravenloft in 4e pretty easily, actually. Now, I'm not as up on the Ravenloft fluff as I should be, but I am familiar with Gothic Horror, and that you can do.

First off, you're going to refluff the Warlock. They are not going to be Pacting with ethereal powers, but with specific Dark Powers. Part of these Pacts should insulate them from certain Dark Power Checks, but also make them more vulnerable. Likely this would come in the form of Insanity Tables (Astral), Body Horror Tables (Infernal), and Karma Tables (Fey) which provide double-edged effects when the Warlocks draw the attentions of the Dark Powers.

Secondly, diseases will play a larger role. Since healing these things are harder to do now than they used to be, you can repurpose the mechanic for all kinds of terrible things. Undead Plagues anyone?

Finally, you'll probably want to make a couple of specific deities for Paladins and Clerics to follow, keeping with the Gothic Horror themes. Or, you can ban all Divine classes and leave healing to the Warlords.

If you want an all lycanthrope party, have them all play Shifters. And instead of upgrading 2e monsters, look through the 4e MM at all the beasties from the Shadowfell - I think you'll find more than enough. :smallamused:

Leliel
2008-08-11, 07:28 PM
OK, I should have been more clear-the campaign itself will not be in Ravenloft, but there will be a few adventures there.

Also, yes I making a less powerful lycan template, to signify the PCs not being born that way.

I like those suggestions though.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-08-11, 07:43 PM
OK, I should have been more clear-the campaign itself will not be in Ravenloft, but there will be a few adventures there.

Also, yes I making a less powerful lycan template, to signify the PCs not being born that way.

I like those suggestions though.

Oh. Um, if you're not going to always be in Ravenloft, may I suggest just using the Shadowfell?

I guess I'm wondering what exactly it is you want to get out of setting things in "Ravenloft." If it's just the gloomy feel, then the Shadowfell, as is, should be enough.

fireinthedust
2008-08-12, 04:35 AM
why bother with the Shadowfell?

I don't see why Ravenloft can't be used entirely. The only things to change for 4e are mechanical bits, with the window dressing being the same as it was in 4e. Story-telling is story-telling.

I really like the re-use monster stats with different descriptions idea. Pick the nightmare lands creatures you'd want to swap them for. I don't remember the cratures exactly, but decide which monster role they'd be and you should be fine. Vargoulle for arcane heads? Ghost templates?

I wasn't a big fan of the nightmare lands because they were arbitrary and changing (ie: the DM would fudge everything depending on how he feels). I like the regular cities and such... mmm, castle Ravenloft...

Leliel
2008-08-12, 10:47 AM
I wasn't a big fan of the nightmare lands because they were arbitrary and changing (ie: the DM would fudge everything depending on how he feels).

Funny. That's exactly why I like them.

Actually, I was primarily intrested in including those Australian Aborigine ripoffs, the Abber, in my campaign-Weird rituals and customs, here I come!-but I was also intrested in literally allowing the players to "get inside the heads" of the main villians both as a cool (and cheap) way to show just how much of a jerk fate has been to them.

SpikeFightwicky
2008-08-12, 12:41 PM
Other saying that 4E isn't quite so 'horror' friendly as previous editions (though 3rd ed. itself was also lacking in many horror features, IMO), here's what I think would need the biggest house rules to make the system more suitable:

Lessen natural healing. A few suggestions (I was semi-trying to adapt 4e to a modern setting of my designs) would be to:
- reduce amount healed by healing surges and/or reduce total amount of healing surges available
- 'resting' the night does NOT heal you up to full. Possibly healing your character's level per night of rest la 3.X.
- Using Ravenloft type mechanics, you can further alter this, like having more severe penalties whilst in sinkholes of evil.

Other than that, I don't have enough 4th ed. experience to make further changes.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-08-12, 12:57 PM
Funny. That's exactly why I like them.

Actually, I was primarily intrested in including those Australian Aborigine ripoffs, the Abber, in my campaign-Weird rituals and customs, here I come!-but I was also intrested in literally allowing the players to "get inside the heads" of the main villians both as a cool (and cheap) way to show just how much of a jerk fate has been to them.

Gotcha. Just set them in the Shadowfell.

There are no "source books" on the Shadowfell right now, so you can just write in whatever mechanics you wanted to use. Use plenty of diseases and curses (using the Disease mechanic, preferably) to weaken the PCs, and just adapt the monsters from the MM into whatever form you want.

Anything else you'd like to have in your "Ravenloft" campaign?