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View Full Version : Xykon' Zombie Dragon : How is it possible ?



Johel
2008-08-19, 03:03 PM
Ok, I've searched for a topic about it but didn't find it, so...

I though it was pretty cool to get a undead dragon which can fly, so a zombie dragon. Problem is, using the SRD, it's seems impossible.

From the SRD online
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm


Hit Dice
Drop any Hit Dice from class levels (to a minimum of 1), double the number of Hit Dice left, and raise them to d12s. If the base creature has more than 10 Hit Dice (not counting those gained with experience), it canít be made into a zombie with the animate dead spell.

I've check for the HD of any Large-sized dragon. The lowest is the very young golden dragon (yes, those one got big pups...) but it still has 11 HD so it's impossible to make a dragon zombie with Animate Undead.

I checked for Create Undead and Create Greater Undead but they don't speak about zombie. So, how did Xykon to get his mount ?

This thread is not in the Oots part of the forum because I'm looking for a covered-by-the-rules answer. If somebody has one, don't hesistate.

Recaiden
2008-08-19, 03:04 PM
The Zombie Dragon template from Draconomicon.

The Demented One
2008-08-19, 03:05 PM
Well, within OOTS, at least, artistic license. He gets one because it's cool and fits him.

Outside of that, I think Draconomicon has several templates for undead dragon, and there's probably a zombie dragon template that gets around the normal HD restriction.

Mushroom Ninja
2008-08-19, 03:06 PM
Xykon is has epic spellcasting.

Anything is possible.

Mushroom Ninja
2008-08-19, 03:09 PM
I just checked the SRD. Very Young Red Dragons have 10 HD and are Large.

PirateMonk
2008-08-19, 03:09 PM
Xykon is has epic spellcasting.

Anything is possible.

This is it: the Animate Dead Epic Spell Seed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/seeds/animateDead.htm) allows animating creatures as zombies and doesn't put a cap on HD.

Sinfire Titan
2008-08-19, 03:12 PM
The Zombie Dragon template from Draconomicon.

This is the correct answer. It is do-able via normal spells and very reasonable. Add in Corpse Crafter and Nimble Bones, and you've got a hell of a tank to play with.

mostlyharmful
2008-08-19, 03:52 PM
This is the correct answer. It is do-able via normal spells and very reasonable. Add in Corpse Crafter and Nimble Bones, and you've got a hell of a tank to play with.

Which isn't even to add in that it might not nessecarilly be a strict zombie since the only definitions of it are eye-witnesses (OotS) who are guessing and Xykon (Who's a damn moron when he isn't interested). There's any number of weird and bizarre Undead templates you could put on a dragon corpse when an epic casters involved.

Oh, and to the Red Dragon possibility, it's reasonably clear it's the reanimated corpse of that silver dragon that settled into Xykons backup lair which would make it a silver, just had to throw that out their... sorry... :smallredface:

UglyPanda
2008-08-19, 03:55 PM
There was a thread or two about it when the Battle for Azure City arc began. It essentially came down to artistic license and the DM of the OotS universe invoking rule 0.

Edit: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39092&highlight=zombie+dragon
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5855&highlight=zombie+dragon

Mewtarthio
2008-08-19, 03:56 PM
Which isn't even to add in that it might not nessecarilly be a strict zombie since the only definitions of it are eye-witnesses (OotS) who are guessing and Xykon (Who's a damn moron when he isn't interested). There's any number of weird and bizarre Undead templates you could put on a dragon corpse when an epic casters involved.

I dunno; something tells me Xykon would be able to tell a zombie from a much cooler and more fun undead.

That something would be Xykon, who is in my room now. Send help.

mostlyharmful
2008-08-19, 04:06 PM
I dunno; something tells me Xykon would be able to tell a zombie from a much cooler and more fun undead.

Just because he knows the difference doesn't mean he's poncy enough to waste his time educating soon-to-be-roadkill on the difference, esspecially once it's been depanced by the straight frikkin' fighter for Balgaroths sake:smallannoyed:

Sebastian
2008-08-19, 04:43 PM
While he was researching his "moderately escapable forcecage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html)" Xykon researched an improved animate undead spell, too. Simple. :)

Morty
2008-08-19, 04:47 PM
Except that here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html) we can see that it's Redcloak who animates the dragon.

Shadowtraveler
2008-08-19, 06:36 PM
He didn't so much make one as he borrowed (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/5/10/) one.

That's my version and I'm sticking to it.

Recaiden
2008-08-19, 06:57 PM
This is the correct answer. It is do-able via normal spells and very reasonable. Add in Corpse Crafter and Nimble Bones, and you've got a hell of a tank to play with.

Yes, Animate dead can create a "zombie dragon" from Draconomicon, of up to at least 20 HD. Easily enough.

xPANCAKEx
2008-08-19, 07:21 PM
i swear some catgirls should have seriously died from this thread:

comics don't have to conform to rules or physics. Or the DnD handbook.

end of discussion

Collin152
2008-08-19, 07:32 PM
i swear some catgirls should have seriously died from this thread:

comics don't have to conform to rules or physics. Or the DnD handbook.

end of discussion

Catgirlicide does not work that way.

Physics hasn't been invoked, nor has chemistry, or any other realworld principle.
Just game mechanics.

Mushroom Ninja
2008-08-19, 07:36 PM
Catgirlicide does not work that way.

Physics hasn't been invoked, nor has chemistry, or any other realworld principle.
Just game mechanics.

But, on the subject of catgirl slaughter, Dragons are very big and heavy. Surely they need a larger wingspan than they are usually portrayed with to lift off of the ground...

Collin152
2008-08-19, 07:40 PM
But, on the subject of catgirl slaughter, Dragons are very big and heavy. Surely they need a larger wingspan than they are usually portrayed with to lift off of the ground...

They're dragons. Magic runs in their veins. They have an organ dedicated to channeling their magic.
That they fly is the least of the concerns of physics.

Chronos
2008-08-19, 08:06 PM
Yeah, dragons are supposed to break all the rules. That's what they're there for. Frankly, I don't think my suspension of disbelief could handle a dragon that paid heed to the laws of physics.

Chronicled
2008-08-19, 08:08 PM
But, on the subject of catgirl slaughter, Dragons are very big and heavy. Surely they need a larger wingspan than they are usually portrayed with to lift off of the ground...

While Collin and Chronos have it right, if you want a pseudo-physics/biology explanation: Dragons have large sacs of methane in their bodies (similar to the air sacs of birds) which counteract their large size. These sacs also provide ample fuel for things like breath weapons...

Collin152
2008-08-19, 08:17 PM
While Collin and Chronos have it right, if you want a pseudo-physics/biology explanation: Dragons have large sacs of methane in their bodies (similar to the air sacs of birds) which counteract their large size. These sacs also provide ample fuel for things like breath weapons...

Methane can freeze things?

Like I said, the Draconis Fundamentalis solves all your physical problems with magic.

Mushroom Ninja
2008-08-19, 08:31 PM
Like I said, the Draconis Fundamentalis solves all your physical problems with magic.

Alright, that makes sense.

Fiendish_Dire_Moose
2008-08-20, 12:19 AM
Could be a DracoLich that he got to do his bidding. :D

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-20, 01:52 AM
If you need a magical reason all Dragons receive a freebie racial enhanced variant of the Borne Aloft reserve feat which is powered by their bones similar to needing a fifth level air spell to power the reserve feat non dragons.

This phenomena hasn't been wildly studied in FRPGs because most dragons don't care to be studied like a lesser creature and everyone knows dragons can fly because they are magical creatures and have wings.:smile:

amanamana
2008-08-20, 02:37 AM
While Collin and Chronos have it right, if you want a pseudo-physics/biology explanation: Dragons have large sacs of methane in their bodies (similar to the air sacs of birds) which counteract their large size. These sacs also provide ample fuel for things like breath weapons...

Someone has been watching the discovery channel...

Johel
2008-08-20, 06:00 AM
Thank you, folks.

:smallbiggrin:

Greg
2008-08-20, 06:38 AM
Someone has been watching the discovery channel...
UK channel 4 first, I think.

DemonSlayer
2008-08-20, 06:38 AM
Problem is, using the SRD, it's seems impossible.

Since when has that been a problem :smalltongue:?

DigoDragon
2008-08-20, 06:56 AM
Frankly, I don't think my suspension of disbelief could handle a dragon that paid heed to the laws of physics.

Wow, I've never heard of that kind of issue before. That's quote worthy because I will agree. :smallbiggrin:

hamishspence
2008-08-22, 12:10 PM
actually hit dice limit is only listed in stats for zombies and skeletons in MM. Not in spell decription, or in stats in Draconomicon. Sample skeletal dragon has 21 HD.

Draconomicon way is easiest (note ancient silver would be animatable if, as per Draconomicon, no HD limit is used. A 17th level cleric copuld do it)

Also, draconomicon Zombie Dragon was used in Cormyr adventure: Zombie Dragon Turtle. Big advantage: can use breath weapon. Zombie dragons keep things like breath weapons and Spell Resistance. However to throw somebody, dragon would have to alight for a moment on the castle wall- move or attack, not both.

Combine with the Desecrate spell and an altar, and 4 times HD of cleric can be animated. 5th level cleric with 20HD dragon zombie, here we come.

hamishspence
2008-08-22, 12:15 PM
Course, the real cheese comes from suggestion in Dragon magazine that you can alter (Poly any object) a corpse, then animate it as the new creature. and, if similar enough, its permanent. Great Red Wyrm dead body to Great Prismatic Wyrm dead body, then animate. Your Zombie Dragon is rather higher in CR than you are.

nagora
2008-08-23, 07:11 AM
This thread is not in the Oots part of the forum because I'm looking for a covered-by-the-rules answer. If somebody has one, don't hesistate.
Rule 0 covers this: the DM had a cool idea, wrote out some stats for it and introduced it into the game. That's all you need. Really.