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View Full Version : Warmage/Beguiler/Dread Necromancers for other schools?



Mark Hall
2008-09-07, 11:11 PM
Were these ever officially presented? Characters who worked like these three, with most of their spells being from Divination, Transmutation, Conjuration or Abjuration?

Andras
2008-09-07, 11:14 PM
Not that I know of. Transmutation/Conjuration ones would probably be exceptionally good if they were ever released.

Maerok
2008-09-07, 11:14 PM
Not that I can remember, but they're long overdue. Homebrew?

Akimbo
2008-09-07, 11:23 PM
Well Frank & K have a Summoner class in the Tome of Fiends. (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=28828)

It uses mostly Conjuration spells. That's one down.

Transmutation, Abjuration, Divination, still to go.

Probably combine Abjuration and Divination into one, sort of like Beguiler does Enchant and Illusion. I could see a themed caster that is all about predicting and preventing stuff in combat and out.

ghost_warlock
2008-09-07, 11:23 PM
I have an illusion version (see shadowmage in my sig). The beguiler uses a lot of enchantment whereas my shadowmage uses virtually none, but gets a small selection of evocation [darkness] effects, a couple abjurations (such as nondetection), and a couple transmutations (e.g, shadowform). It's a very stealth + battlefield-control-oriented class.

A divination specialist version would either be grossly over/under-powered depending on the DM.

RTGoodman
2008-09-07, 11:30 PM
Probably combine Abjuration and Divination into one, sort of like Beguiler does Enchant and Illusion. I could see a themed caster that is all about predicting and preventing stuff in combat and out.

I dunno. I was thinking maybe Abjuration and Transmutation together and Divination by itself (or with nothing at all) - it'd be sort of like a 4E Arcane Defender/Leader with a focus on defense and buffing.

Burley
2008-09-08, 08:16 AM
The Beguiler has quite the crapload of conjuration spells, though. Even if they are all offensive...

I think a dedicated divinationist would be pretty cool, if not extremely powerful in the utilities department.
I'd be wary of making a dedicated Illusionist, since that treads on the tails of Bards and Beguilders.
Abjuration... Eh... Going over the PHB spell list, and then the entire Abjuration dedicated spell list (Every Abj. Spell)... I don't think I'd have much fun with that. Some...but not much.

Tempest Fennac
2008-09-08, 08:20 AM
Frosty and I started this a while back, but Frosty hasn;t thought up any class features for the Diviner/Transmuter yet: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4055352&highlight=Tempest#post4055352

AKA_Bait
2008-09-08, 08:25 AM
Not that I know of. Transmutation/Conjuration ones would probably be exceptionally good if they were ever released.

Yes, and I don't expect to see one for 3.x. The Beguiler, Warmage and Dread Necromancer work in a reasonably balanced way in part because they are specialists in the weaker schools of magic. If you made transumtation or conjuration ones, you would have to either limit them to the less broken spell (i.e. a trasmuter wouldn't get polymorph, which seems silly) or they would be much more powerful than their counterparts focusing on the other schools.

Tempest Fennac
2008-09-08, 08:28 AM
Did you think the spell lists I posted on the thread I mentioned in my other post achieved that aim, AKA_Bait? (That's what I was trying to achieve.)

AKA_Bait
2008-09-08, 08:31 AM
Did you think the spell lists I posted on the thread I mentioned in my other post achieved that aim, AKA_Bait? (That's what I was trying to achieve.)

Let me check them out. I haven't gotten a chance to look that thread over yet.

Edit: Ok, giving it a quick once over I'd say it looks mostly ok. I'll need to look at it more closley with my books to give a more comprehensive evaluation since I'm not familiar enough with all of the noncore spells. Overall, it looks ok. I'm glad you nixed Gate and didn't include the Orbs. I'd probably nix a few others or swap them with abjurations or less potent conjurations. The ones I'd strike would probably be, Grease, Black Tentacles, Feeblemind and Incendiary Cloud (this one because it feels more like an evoker kinda spell). Those are debatable though and overall it looks solid. Well done!

Tempest Fennac
2008-09-08, 08:44 AM
Thanks. :smallsmile: What's wrong with Grease and Black Tentacles, though? (I included those because I tend to see Conjurers as being largely Battlefield control specialists). I mainly included Incendry Cloud due to thinking it worked like Solid Fog at the time, and I couldn't find any better high level Conjurations which I could have used in place of it (I left the Orb spells off due to Warmages already having them). Can you think of any class features for the Diviner/Transmuter? I can't think of any that would work.

The Glyphstone
2008-09-08, 09:31 AM
I created a Transmuter-equivalent a while back, which I called the Witch Doctor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60146&highlight=Witch+Doctor). He ended up morphing into more of a Abjuration/Transmutation hybrid with a splash of Necromancy, as the self-described " (de)buffmonkey from H*** ", though. Every personal and beneficial buff known to PC-kind and a number of touch and short-ranged debuffs/save-or-sucks/loses, all wrapped up in tasty voodoo flavoring.

Tempest Fennac
2008-09-09, 01:25 AM
That class sounds interresting, Glyphstone (combat-wise, it seems more like a Bard then a Wizard, though*). What sort of abilities do you think would go with the Transmuter/Abjurer which Frosty and I were working on?


*This isn't a critercism at all. I was just saying that it seems better suited to front-line combat then the DM, Beguiller and WM.