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View Full Version : An observation at Barnes and Noble



AKA_Bait
2008-09-11, 08:24 AM
I work over a B&N, which for me is roughly equivalent to a junkie working over a crack house. As such, I went in this morning to pick up a book and noticed that the stand they had set up for the 4e books was not displaying only 4e materials anymore. Although it still had some there, more than half of the spots in the display were made up of 3.5 books, including the 3.5 PBH. This made me wonder... is 4e actually doing well? Are the 3.5 books, which have not been discounted, out there because B&N is still making as much money in sales off the older edition as the new?

I know that my interest in the new system has wained of late, in part because I don't have a game running with it. I've also noticed that, other than the edition war threads, there don't seem to be as many 4e threads popping up on the boards as there were, say a month or two ago.

What are your thoughts?

TheCountAlucard
2008-09-11, 08:28 AM
Well, truth be told, all I've done with 4e was flip through the Monster Manual at the mall bookstore. It's not that I'm condemning 4e; it's just not a game I'm currently wanting to play (or able to afford, for that matter).

Jayabalard
2008-09-11, 08:29 AM
The stand might have been set up with someone who doesn't know that there is a difference between 3e and 4e. They might have just thrown all of the D&D books in one place.

Or perhaps they're trying to keep them together in hopes that people buying the books don't really know there are two different editions. Someone's parent or girlfriend rather than an avid D&Der

Tormsskull
2008-09-11, 08:30 AM
What are your thoughts?

I think it definitely has. I think the fact that WotC is talking about loosening the requirements of the 3rd-party license alone was evidence that 4e isn't doing as well as they expected.

arguskos
2008-09-11, 08:32 AM
I think it is very area-dependant. I know that in my area, finding 3.5 stuff is getting difficult, to say the least. >_> B&N doesn't carry crap anymore, just 4e. I have to hunt down a Half-Price Books or a gaming shop to find anything related to 3.5 other than the Core books.

*shrug*

-argus

AstralFire
2008-09-11, 08:33 AM
For a while I almost joined a local game store, and their 3.5 selection has become nonexistent other than the very, very last splatbooks and Eberron supplements.

And I frequent two boards where 3.5 talk has completely vanished.

Little_Rudo
2008-09-11, 08:35 AM
In addition to the some of the above responses, they might just be trying to sell off 3E products so they have more shelf space for upcoming 4E books. Most non-gaming stores wouldn't want to dedicate a whole lot of shelf space to gaming, so they want to keep the new and current stuff out on the shelf.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-11, 08:39 AM
Anecdotal evidence and conjecture is just worthless. How is WotC/Hasbro doing? Are there sales numbers?

Edit: And in any case, shelves stocked full of an old, out-of-print book sounds more like they're trying hard to get rid of old stock that isn't moving.

Jayabalard
2008-09-11, 08:45 AM
Edit: And in any case, shelves stocked full of an old, out-of-print book sounds more like they're trying hard to get rid of old stock that isn't moving.He's talking about a stand that was specifically set up for 4e, and books aren't discounted, so it's likely that there's more than just "trying hard ot get rid of old stock" going on.

Isomenes
2008-09-11, 08:47 AM
I know that my interest in the new system has wained of late, in part because I don't have a game running with it. I've also noticed that, other than the edition war threads, there don't seem to be as many 4e threads popping up on the boards as there were, say a month or two ago.

What are your thoughts?

Another explanation for the seeming lack of 4E threads is that, apart from the initial rush of release craziness, it's still the new kid on the block, and a new kid who doesn't even have much change in his pocket at that. Once Martial Power and teh Adventurer's Vault come out I expect we'll see some pickup. Though, I haven't been seeing a particular dearth of 4E threads overall. It's not like it's a desert out there :smallcool:

AKA_Bait
2008-09-11, 08:48 AM
And in any case, shelves stocked full of an old, out-of-print book sounds more like they're trying hard to get rid of old stock that isn't moving.

Normally, I would think that but from what I understand of B&N's operations (I have some friends who used to work for them), B&N has a funny set up with publishers where they sell on something closer to a consignment basis than a straight sale. Also, if they were really trying to move the product I would expect them to discount it at least a little. They do that frequently with other titles they really want to move.

There was always a shelf of D&D products and I'd think that's its in a store that has pretty frequent product turn over (midtown manhattan).

That it might just be someone who doesn't know the difference makes sense to me, although they didn't have that problem in the past (the display has been there since 4e came out). I'd think it odd if it's a conscious attempt to trick buyers into purchasing a book of the wrong edition though. Partly because of B&N's rather liberal return policy and also because of the fact that in the display the 4e and 3.5 PHBs are literally right next to eachother.

DeathQuaker
2008-09-11, 08:55 AM
I remember when I worked for B&N, if you scanned a book with your little inventory doohickey, there would be a little indicator telling you if the book was going to be replaced upon sale. If they had received a book but weren't confident in its demand, it might be marked for 0 replacements--you sell that one copy, another isn't going to replace it. (They may revise that later on if the book turned out to be in demand).

I know D&D books were marked for a 1 for 1 replacement--you sell a copy, and the B&N distributor automatically ships out a replacement.

I also vaguely recall that if a book sat on a shelf for too long (there was a date attached to it in the inventory system), you eventually removed it if it was marked for 0 replacements.

The question would be if 3.x books are now marked for 0 replacements. I imagine as they'd be going OOP, they probably will be. So eventually they'll probably disappear one way or the other.

UNLESS demand indicates to the company otherwise, in which case they'd keep them.

It should be noted that 3.x and 4E will have different ISBNs, so they are going to be marked differently--at least the B&N computer should have no trouble telling them apart.

If someone's putting them together it's probably to consolidate stock--whether THEY'RE checking the difference is a good question.

As for availability on shelves, I'd say 3.x stock has gone down in the one B&N store near me and not in the other---but the one where the 3.x stock has gone down, they also don't have a lot of 4E stuff either. Likewise, there's tons of both 3.x and 4E stock at the other store.

Both stores are in college neighborhoods, so it probably depends largely on what the local gaming clubs are using/wanting.

Jayabalard
2008-09-11, 08:56 AM
Also, if they were really trying to move the product I would expect them to discount it at least a little. They do that frequently with other titles they really want to move.That's my thought as well; I happened to be browsing around at B&N and picked up a hardback from a fantasy author that I've never read for ~$2.50 ... I'm not really digging the book, but I have a good chance of being able to trade it in at a used book store for as much/more than I paid for it. But they really wanted to get rid of it, so they marked it down a lot.

nagora
2008-09-11, 08:57 AM
Anecdotal evidence and conjecture is just worthless.
Anecdote, An-ek-doet, n, An eyewitness account which does not agree with the listener's preconceived notions or values; something to be disregarded; fluff. In stats., a single data point.

:smallwink:

Seriously, it's hard to tell. My impression is that it's not flying off the shelf after the "early adopters" who were waiting with bated breath, but it is hard to get an overview when Hasbro refuse to publish sales figures - even, I think, to their shareholders. And even if they did publish such figures, I'd not expect them yet anyway.

bosssmiley
2008-09-11, 09:04 AM
For a while I almost joined a local game store, and their 3.5 selection has become non-existent other than the very, very last splatbooks and Eberron supplements.

That's to be expected. 3E being out of print all the remaining books will just be end of line, reduced to clear stock now. Mmmmm, delicious 50-70% discounts.


And I frequent two boards where 3.5 talk has completely vanished.

The WOTC forums and the ENWorld hivemind don't count. :smalltongue:

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-11, 09:14 AM
Anecdote, An-ek-doet, n, An eyewitness account which does not agree with the listener's preconceived notions or values; something to be disregarded; fluff. In stats., a single data point.

Yeah... what?

Anecdote, as in the opposite of actual scientific research (like, I don't know, sales numbers; sure, they're usually not independently verified, but they're systematically gathered).

black dragoon
2008-09-11, 09:14 AM
ENworld has fallen to 4E!:smalleek:
(sorry not a huge fan of this new fangled system)
It's very odd to say the least. Then again I also haven't been to major retailer in about six months so maybe I'm out of touch with the world.

AKA_Bait
2008-09-11, 09:18 AM
Yeah... what?

Anecdote, as in the opposite of actual scientific research (like, I don't know, sales numbers; sure, they're usually not independently verified, but they're systematically gathered).

Thing is, since WotC doesn't release it's sales numbers, all we have are anectodes and personal observations. Get enough of those and you might have something that is vaguely accurate. Hence, why I made the thread.

Starbuck_II
2008-09-11, 09:27 AM
ENworld has fallen to 4E!:smalleek:
(sorry not a huge fan of this new fangled system)
It's very odd to say the least. Then again I also haven't been to major retailer in about six months so maybe I'm out of touch with the world.

I wouldn't say fallen, but there aren't much 3E news out so Morris can't like broadcast much news about much else but 4E.

black dragoon
2008-09-11, 09:33 AM
I was worried they had done what wizards had done to their forums...that a little relief though. I haven't even checked the WOTC site do they have mention of the older edition?

Kurald Galain
2008-09-11, 09:34 AM
Thing is, since WotC doesn't release it's sales numbers, all we have are anectodes and personal observations.

True enough, but we might be able to find out what other publishers are doing? Have any big books or modules recently been published (or been planned for the near future) for 4E? What about for 3E or pathfinder?

If the former, that suggests 4E is doing well. If the latter, not so.

valadil
2008-09-11, 09:37 AM
Ya know, there aren't a lot of 4th ed books out yet. It may be the case that everyone who is interested already has the books. 3rd OTOH has plenty of material left for people to collect.

AstralFire
2008-09-11, 09:41 AM
The WOTC forums and the ENWorld hivemind don't count. :smalltongue:

I've got 50 posts on one and I've never posted on the other, actually.

Matthew
2008-09-11, 10:23 AM
Have any big books or modules recently been published (or been planned for the near future) for 4E? What about for 3E or pathfinder?

If the former, that suggests 4E is doing well. If the latter, not so.

Goodman Games are producing 4e compatable material, I think they have released four adventures now? They are also releasing systemless and first edition compatable material. Definitely a diversifying operation.

Expeditious Retreat Press are getting ready to release some 4e products, but they are also a diverse outfit.

Haven't heard anything of what Necromancer Games are doing, and Mongoose are another diversifying company.

The New Bruceski
2008-09-11, 10:24 AM
You work there. Rather than going onto the internet and asking people who would just be guessing, wouldn't you be more likely to find an answer by talking to the person who stocked the shelf?

AKA_Bait
2008-09-11, 10:37 AM
Haven't heard anything of what Necromancer Games are doing

Last I saw, Necromancer Games was awaiting changes to the GSL before publishing anything. They claim to have things 'ready to go' as soon as they are willing to sign on to the GSL, but otherwise will just sit on them.


You work there. Rather than going onto the internet and asking people who would just be guessing, wouldn't you be more likely to find an answer by talking to the person who stocked the shelf?

Ok, first off, I don't work there. I work in a law office adjacent to the building which houses the store and about 9 stories up from it. I'm a frequent customer and not an employee. I don't know anyone who does work in the store. I'd rather not call over a manager to ask about it for several reasons, not the least of which is that I don't want some poor shlub to get in trouble if they misstacked the books just to satisfy my curiosity. To even find out who stocked the shelves I'd have to do that, assuming also that anyone who worked in the store would be willing to tell me, which seems less than likley.

Also, I asked here because I was curious if other stores and the general exp of we in the playground were seeing similar things. From what others have posted, it seems that B&N isn't doing this throughout all of it's stores. That alone was worth knowing.

The New Bruceski
2008-09-11, 10:41 AM
Ok, first off, I don't work there. I work in a law office adjacent to the building which houses the store and about 9 stories up from it. I'm a frequent customer and not an employee.

Ah, my mistake. I read "over a B&N" as "over at B&N." Changes things.

FatJose
2008-09-11, 10:48 AM
Probably just trying to move product. At my town's B&N I found and bouth a Forgotten Realms Setting book (not the actual setting but some kinda expansion that's more fluff than mechanics) and the D&D Planar Handbook for $1 each.

Mark Hall
2008-09-11, 10:52 AM
As others have pointed out, anecdotal evidence provides a data point... a somewhat "fuzzy" point, in this case, since the OP doesn't work there, but a point, nonetheless.

That said, I haven't been following the sales of 4e. After the FRCG, though, I know I won't be spending any more money with WotC, at least not on the primary market; everything I get will be secondary or tertiary markets.

AKA_Bait
2008-09-11, 11:23 AM
Ah, my mistake. I read "over a B&N" as "over at B&N." Changes things.

Fair 'nuff.


Probably just trying to move product. At my town's B&N I found and bouth a Forgotten Realms Setting book (not the actual setting but some kinda expansion that's more fluff than mechanics) and the D&D Planar Handbook for $1 each.

Man. I want to have your B&N downstairs. Those gift cards would go a lot farther. That said, I'm only confused because the 3.x books are not discounted. At all.


That said, I haven't been following the sales of 4e. After the FRCG, though, I know I won't be spending any more money with WotC, at least not on the primary market; everything I get will be secondary or tertiary markets.

That bad eh?

Mark Hall
2008-09-11, 11:30 AM
That bad eh?

To be fair to it, if it were not called FR, it wouldn't be a bad product... some of the mechanics they're proposing would have worked very well in a Birthright book, for example, and some of the changes bring it closer to the "adventuring party" level of BR.

However, they did call it FR. They did have a deific genocide (which, to be fair again, started with the switch to 2nd edition... but at least 2nd edition's ToT only reeked of deus ex machina instead of deus ex nihilio or deus ex stultus). They did radically change major nations. And I'm not going to give them my money again.

Kletian999
2008-09-11, 11:36 AM
As others have pointed out, anecdotal evidence provides a data point... a somewhat "fuzzy" point, in this case, since the OP doesn't work there, but a point, nonetheless.

That said, I haven't been following the sales of 4e. After the FRCG, though, I know I won't be spending any more money with WotC, at least not on the primary market; everything I get will be secondary or tertiary markets.

At the recent convention WotC publicly stated 4e sales had exceeded expectations, a second print run had already been issued, and other supporting evidence saying 4e was doing well. I recall reading that in an interview that was linked to in one of the WotC forum posts, but I can't find it currently.

You see less 4e talk here partially because this forum in particular just has a large 3e following: I'm sure OotS being mostly 3e based helps that.

ocato
2008-09-11, 11:40 AM
Well, much to my dismay, the local game store has shunned all but 4e and most if not all of the posts of the "find a group" bulletin board are seeking 4e. The local B&N however, seems to have a healthy stock of both and, while I haven't checked prices, I'd wouldn't be surprised to see them at normal (mostly because they are the only place here in IU-ville to get them that I've seen).

Actually, I think I might mosey on over to that game store and ask if they have any 3.x stuff in the back or behind the counter and possibly ask if it's gone by choice or if it was just all gobbled up by ravenous customers (who proceed to play their private games that complete strangers like me can't join in :smallfrown: )

Gorbash
2008-09-11, 11:57 AM
Since 4e came out, I frantically started buying 3.5 books, out of fear they will be pulled back from production, so I wanted to get them before they vanish completely.

Kurald Galain
2008-09-11, 12:07 PM
At the recent convention WotC publicly stated 4e sales had exceeded expectations,

Well, yes, but they would also say that if it wasn't selling well. Witness microsoft, who keeps claiming that vista sells exceedingly well even if neary all other sources contradict that.

Objective data is hard to get.

Lord Tataraus
2008-09-11, 12:08 PM
I'm with Mark, the FRCS was the last straw for me with WotC, I am thoroughly pissed at them. While I wasn't a huge fan of FRCS, I liked it and what they did to their fans was horrible and its not the first time of seen them do it. I was big into Dreamblade and them just turned their backs on the fans and destroyed their own creation slowly but surely. I have no faith in them any more, the only thing they've got that's worth anything is MtG and that is a money pit for any player, the only reason I play it is because my college gaming club buys the cards for drafts and we Cube.

I would not mind seeing 4e go down the drain the same way Dreamblade did. :smallmad:

Ascension
2008-09-11, 12:46 PM
The lack of sale prices on the 3.5 stuff is what's bugging me... but it also took the PS2 and X-Box a good while to go down significantly in price after the release of the 3 and 360, so it may just be a matter of time.

DM Raven
2008-09-11, 12:56 PM
It seems like the D&D 4th edition is doing well so far, lots of new players are learning the system and a lot of the older players are slowly accepting it. Being someone who's been playing D&D since 1st, things are pretty much going as they always go when a new D&D system comes out.

1) A lot of people don't like it because something that they really liked from the older edition has been changed.
2) People play with the new edition and discover it's actually a lot of fun.
3) The new edition is accepted and it becomes the norm for most D&D players.

This isn't always the case. Shoot, there are still people playing second edition who refuse to convert to 3rd...still people playing 3.0 that refuse to convert to 3.5

Nothing wrong with that, but most people end up converting once they learn more about the system and how it plays.

Personally I really like 4th edition, combat has been made much easier to run for us DMs and the non-magic using classes actually have strategies they can employ on the battlefield beyong flanking, grapple, and "I attack." Plus, the system they're using makes it really easy for new powers and skills for all the classes to be designed and implemented since it all basically uses the same rule system.

AKA_Bait
2008-09-11, 01:00 PM
Objective data is hard to get.

Indeed, especially if needing an additional print run was something they perhaps expected off the bat, perhaps slightly eratta'd / copy edited as some 3.5 PHB's were. All publically traded companies want to say that their product is doing well since it effects stock prices. It could be that they under printed the initial run. It could be that other bulk purchasers bought a ton of the books right off the bat on the expectation that it would be big. Without actual data, rather than WotC publicity announcements, it's hard to know.

RTGoodman
2008-09-11, 01:07 PM
I've seen a similar thing at my local B&N locations, but I'm not particularly sure about the implications. I just assume that the stockers just shove all the D&D stuff together and don't really distinguish between editions. Honestly, I've seen about the same amount of sales of 4E stuff as I did for 3.x, just based on how fast their initial stock of new books sells - and it's not particularly good for either edition, though that probably has to do with location.

What makes me really mad, though, is that the two B&Ns that I go to have both taken all their D&D stuff and stuff for other games (core books, supplements, adventures, minis, dice, "D&D For Dummies," and everything else, including SWSE, Dark Heresy, WoD, and others) and hidden it all behind the counter. To even look at one now you have to go to someone working their and have you pull it, and then they stand around watching you while you have it. I don't know if there was a local spate of gaming supply theft or what, but it's really annoying when I can't flip through a book before buying it.

SpikeFightwicky
2008-09-11, 01:25 PM
At the nearest Chapters store, their gaming shelf consists of 4th ed. taking up half, and non WotC taking up the bottom, more annoying to browse half. No 3rd ed at all.

AKA_Bait
2008-09-11, 01:46 PM
Some part of me does wonder if the disappearance of particular books in small gaming stores and small book stores is a result of Hasbro flexing it's market muscle. I mean, if you were a small book/gaming store and your distributer offered to refund in exchange for return your existing 3.x stock or to trade it for 4e materials wouldn't you probably want to do it?

Note, I have no clue if Hasbro is actually doing anything of the sort, or worse ala Microsoft's Sherman Act troubles, but I do wonder. Anyone on here own a gaming shop?

Jayabalard
2008-09-11, 02:00 PM
The lack of sale prices on the 3.5 stuff is what's bugging me... but it also took the PS2 and X-Box a good while to go down significantly in price after the release of the 3 and 360, so it may just be a matter of time.As I recall, the PS2 dropped in price long before the ps3 came out; I don't think it's really dropped significantly in price since then.

Edea
2008-09-11, 02:15 PM
Actually (not that this has anything to do with Barnes & Noble)...both my local Waldenbooks and Books-A-Million have the 4e Core set...and the usual selection of 3.5 splatbooks. I will note, however, that I didn't see any 3.5 Core books at either shop, but things like Complete Arcane, etc. were still there (and at full price).

horseboy
2008-09-11, 02:35 PM
Haven't heard anything of what Necromancer Games are doing, and Mongoose are another diversifying company.
Redbrick announced that they're going to be doing an Earthdawn conversion for 4th, but given there "It's done with it's done" motto, that'll be about two years from now. They're calling it "The Age of Legend" (http://www.redbrick.co.nz/aol4e.html) campaign setting.

We don't have a B&N around these parts. We've got an Hastings. Last time I was inside I noticed they were selectively clearing out 3rd edition stuff. Not all of it, just certain books. That and the Uni system Buffy and Angel stuff.

Ascension
2008-09-11, 02:37 PM
As I recall, the PS2 dropped in price long before the ps3 came out; I don't think it's really dropped significantly in price since then.

The used ones have dropped since the PS3 came out, at the very least, but the response was delayed.

Mark Hall
2008-09-11, 02:41 PM
Some part of me does wonder if the disappearance of particular books in small gaming stores and small book stores is a result of Hasbro flexing it's market muscle. I mean, if you were a small book/gaming store and your distributer offered to refund in exchange for return your existing 3.x stock or to trade it for 4e materials wouldn't you probably want to do it?

I know that WotC destroyed all of its stock of 2e material with the release of 3e.

arguskos
2008-09-11, 02:42 PM
I know that WotC destroyed all of its stock of 2e material with the release of 3e.
That makes me die a little inside... :smallfrown:

DAMN YOU WOTC!!! DAMN YOU!!!! :smallfurious:

-argus

black dragoon
2008-09-11, 03:08 PM
Agreed. I've only played 2nd once or twice but it's like burning part of a cultures history. I mean jeez....That was for a very long time THE game to beat. And they just go and destroy it like that...:smallmad:

AKA_Bait
2008-09-11, 03:12 PM
Agreed. I've only played 2nd once or twice but it's like burning part of a cultures history. I mean jeez....That was for a very long time THE game to beat. And they just go and destroy it like that...:smallmad:

I'd love to be surprised... but I'm not. As a company attempting to push a new product, it makes a modicum of sense to reduce the number of competing products on or potentially on the market. That means destroying old stock.

I just wonder if WotC is doing that with 3.x now.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-09-11, 03:14 PM
Agreed. I've only played 2nd once or twice but it's like burning part of a cultures history. I mean jeez....That was for a very long time THE game to beat. And they just go and destroy it like that...:smallmad:

Even if WotC did that, they didn't burn all the 2e books in the world. People still have 'em, and in time I'm sure we'll put them all together in some manner of digital library.

Besides that would be a dumb move on WotC's part. I'm sure that they'd make a ton more money auctioning off 2e stuff on EBay 20 years down the line than burning it all back then.

black dragoon
2008-09-11, 03:30 PM
I didn't literal burning. I mean simply erasing that much literature from the face of the earth. Yeah I know that there are good many gamers that still posses older edition materials I'm one of them I have the original Fiend Folio back home. :smallbiggrin: It's the principle I mean if they had done a gradual stop it would have eased the transition over instead like everything else in this they rammed it down our throats no questions asked.

DeathQuaker
2008-09-11, 03:36 PM
Destroying OOP stock you don't want to sell isn't unusual. It happens to a LOT of books, not just game books. :smallfrown:

Matthew
2008-09-11, 03:55 PM
They destroyed it because it was losing them money to hold onto it (storage costs money). They still had unsold 1e stock, which was a huge money sink for TSR (though apparently the 1e PHB had another print run even after the 2e PHB was in distribution). That said, I think some of it might have been sold off, because I am constantly surprised to see how many 'mint condition' items are available through specialist businesses.

black dragoon
2008-09-11, 04:01 PM
Yeah sad fact of the world I guess. What I don't get is why not just sell them off to systems like Libraries? Putting books of the old edition out might draw in people for your new one.

AslanCross
2008-09-11, 04:25 PM
I didn't even know B&N carried RPG books. I don't remember seeing any the last time I went to the big one on 5th Avenue in Manhattan. (I was only visiting the US then.)

Then again, I wasn't really looking, either.

Jayabalard
2008-09-11, 04:41 PM
They've carried RPG materials since the late 80/early 90s, though I guess it's possible that some stores don't.

AKA_Bait
2008-09-11, 04:44 PM
They've carried RPG materials since the late 80/early 90s, though I guess it's possible that some stores don't.

Some don't, but if the B&N Aslancross is referring to is the one on 5th Ave. and 46th Street then it most certianly does... since that's the store I'm talking about.

Kurald Galain
2008-09-11, 05:12 PM
Yeah sad fact of the world I guess. What I don't get is why not just sell them off to systems like Libraries?

I believe TSR may have fallen in the period were D&D was considered too satanic to be put in libraries...

black dragoon
2008-09-11, 05:15 PM
That would do it. what about 3.0 though? And they could 3.5 I mean heck it would be great publicity and would garner a little support.

Woot Spitum
2008-09-11, 05:18 PM
I don't know about Barnes and Noble, but I have been to two different Borders bookstores recently , and in both cases they are no longer carrying 3.5 books. They did both have a lot of 4th edition stuff.

Justin_Bacon
2008-09-11, 06:29 PM
I work over a B&N, which for me is roughly equivalent to a junkie working over a crack house. As such, I went in this morning to pick up a book and noticed that the stand they had set up for the 4e books was not displaying only 4e materials anymore. Although it still had some there, more than half of the spots in the display were made up of 3.5 books, including the 3.5 PBH. This made me wonder... is 4e actually doing well? Are the 3.5 books, which have not been discounted, out there because B&N is still making as much money in sales off the older edition as the new?

OTOH, at my local B&N all of the 3rd Edition books have been removed from the shelves entirely.

Starbuck_II
2008-09-11, 07:01 PM
I was worried they had done what wizards had done to their forums...that a little relief though. I haven't even checked the WOTC site do they have mention of the older edition?

No, the 3rd edition forum is still alive. I've posted there a couple times in EnWorld. Unlike WotC, you can find the 3rd edition or the 4th easily. They didn't pull a WotC and make main section 4th.

The 3rd edition one isn't that bad. I still see posts at the Psionics Motivator one. It is hard to find the Previous section I'll note.

Thrud
2008-09-11, 08:25 PM
I'm a Manager at a small bookstore. I used to sell a couple of 3x books a month, and the occasional WW bk, but never really anything else to speak of (occasional dice, miniatures, modules, that sort of thing). I sold 5 4ed 'sets' (I.E. customer bought PHB, DMG, & MM) the opening weekend I had 2 'sets' of them returned to me within the week of sale. Since then I have sold 2 more PHBs. No more DMGs or MMs. Havn't sold a single one of the new Forgotten Realms books. The 2 people who made the returns are regulars who waxed lyrical about how much they disliked the system whilst making the return. They are both also older (30+) which led me to create a post a while back about age of players vs like/dislike of the system, since it had been my observation that older players disliked it more than younger. The thread, however, seemed to totally disprove that.

We are a small volume store. So take what I say with a grain of salt. It doesn't actually have much in the way of statistical backing, as my brief test with the age thread showed.

-Edit - Oh yeah, and we don't have any 3.x any more.

black dragoon
2008-09-11, 08:41 PM
well it shows a local trend. Nation wide it's impossible to tell with out moer data.

Draco Dracul
2008-09-11, 08:48 PM
Redbrick announced that they're going to be doing an Earthdawn conversion for 4th, but given there "It's done with it's done" motto, that'll be about two years from now. They're calling it "The Age of Legend" (http://www.redbrick.co.nz/aol4e.html) campaign setting.

We don't have a B&N around these parts. We've got an Hastings. Last time I was inside I noticed they were selectively clearing out 3rd edition stuff. Not all of it, just certain books. That and the Uni system Buffy and Angel stuff.

The same thing is happening at the Hastings in my area.

Zephyros
2008-09-11, 09:05 PM
Well, in Athens (as in Hellas :smalltongue: ) you needed a shotgun and huge luck to track down and claim your 3.5 prey. What makes me sad is that despite the huge discounts many RPGshops just sent their 3.5 material back to WotC even if they were selling like crazy...

To buy 3.5 books now you need E bay... (I am sure some people make huge money right now this way)

Thurbane
2008-09-11, 09:23 PM
I've spoken with a few of my FLGS, some say 4E is selling quite well, others say not so well...

FatJose
2008-09-11, 09:57 PM
I just came back from B&N and the Roleplaying section is essentially 2 small rectangle shelf units...at the bottom, under some comics, next to a whole block of Game Guides. I dont know if thats good terminology but its like this.


I_Stuff___I__Stuff__IComics___I_Game__I
I________I________I__II______I_Guides_I
I________I________I__II______I___II___I
I________I________I_RPG Misc_I___II___I
I________I________ID&D 3.5+4I___V___I

Last time I was there (before the crazy 1 dollar sale that I apparently got to near the end which took place after they moved around somethings.) P&P RPGS had a whole block and a half. Now its just that little section and a display for 4th edition core books. I must have missed out on a sea of 1-3 dollar D&D books

Lazy Zomb
2008-09-12, 12:08 AM
Well, I work in inventory at a Border's, and as far as I know, we didn't pull any of our 3.X books, they just sold out as 4th edition neared since we stopped getting any new 3.X books in.

That said, I hate our Roleplaying section now, since all the different 3.X splatbooks have been replaced with just the 4 4th ed books (still haven't gotten the FR Players Guide yet).

Mutants and Masterminds and Dark Heresy will have to hold me over for now I guess.

illathid
2008-09-12, 12:34 AM
Well, 4 of the 10 bestselling Amazon.com puzzle and game books are 4e products, with the Adventurer's Vault and the Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms being 1st and 2nd respectively. The core rulebook gift set is ranked 7th as well, even though it's several months after it's initial release.

The Adventurer's Vault is also currently ranked 87th out of all of Amazon's bestselling books.

So take that for what you will.

AslanCross
2008-09-12, 12:44 AM
Some don't, but if the B&N Aslancross is referring to is the one on 5th Ave. and 46th Street then it most certianly does... since that's the store I'm talking about.

Yeah, that's it. I guess I didn't see anything since I wasn't really looking. I thought only hobby stores carried RPG books (since that's the case here in the Philippines).

AKA_Bait
2008-09-12, 08:24 AM
Yeah, that's it. I guess I didn't see anything since I wasn't really looking. I thought only hobby stores carried RPG books (since that's the case here in the Philippines).

Well, if you ever find yourself back in that store (quite unlikley) it's on the second floor by the windows. It's not that much stuff mostly D&D and GURPS and even that takes up only a just a shelf and the display stand I mentioned.