PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Ratling Race (PEACH)



Reaper_Monkey
2008-09-14, 01:46 PM
Hey, I've just finished stat-ing out this new race and I'd like some feedback on balance, I've not finished typing out the fluff for it yet, but if anyone's interested I'll post that up when I finish. The basic idea is that rattlings are a humanoid rat creature, which has been done many many times before, but I've never seen a build for it in dnd so I made one.

I've tried to make this a +0 LA race, it has +2 Str and +2 Wis more than it should do for balance, which is +1 LA, but small gives -1 LA, the rest shouldn't be powerful enough to constitute another LA gain on their own.

However I want to know if giving it a natural bite weapon (1d4 probably, maybe 1d6) would kick it over or not, in theory it shouldn't as it would quickly become obsolete, but I'm not sure when its coupled with the other bonuses this race has (mostly the speed)?

Here's the stats, thanks in advance for any feedback =)

EDIT: Changed stats so they are now balanced, added bite attack, clarified collapsing bones speed with the on all fours movement speed.

Are these new stats +0 LA now?


EDIT2: Heres all the fluff, I'm *very* tired now as I've just only finished writing it up, and I'm sure I've made a mistake somwhere, but I might as well dump this hear now so people can read it and fix any (probably glaring) mistakes later. Oh, I've changed the favoured class to scout as I feel its more befitting.


Ratling

In and under every large city, in the back alleys, sewers and slums, lives a race as loved as their ancestors, the ratlings. Ratlings are opportunists, who live alongside other races, in the shadows and the waste sides. Though they are viewed with contempt by most races, and often thought of as nothing more than big rats, ratlings are ingenious survivors and often provide an unseen backbone to most societies. They tend the waterways, and keep the wilderness at bay, and there is little going on that they donít know about.

Personality: Ratlings share many of their traits with their rat cousins; they have a diehard approach to survival and are unequalled in their ingeniousness for getting around problems. They are incredibly curious and dynamic, and can readily adapt to new situations when they present themselves. Ratlings are mostly good humoured and playful, often enjoying a good joke on others or even themselves. They are also hardy, weathering conditions normally intolerable to others with a surprising carefree nature and will not upset the status quo unless there is a dire need to do so.
Ratlings have a deep sense of individualism; this is mostly brought about from living in societies numbering in the hundreds where each is often treated as an equal and considered family, due to this however, each ratling has their own unique way of doing things and is incredibly defiant of others enforcing their will upon them. Ratlings are loyal to one another, and will never betray another ratling of the same family, however it is possible that two families from different areas might fight for land and resources, but this is very rare and most often they just merge into a larger group.

Physical Description: Ratlings stand at around 2 - 2 Ĺ foot tall, and weigh 15 Ė 25 pounds, they prefer to stand erect but are comfortable in moving on all fours. They are covered in coarse fur, usually consistent in colour from any range of browns, blacks and grey while their chests and inner limbs are a slightly lighter shade. As ratlings ages, their fur tends to become longer and more shaggy in texture. They have rat-like heads, which stand forward of their body almost inline with their shoulders, and long thin human like hands. They have prehensile tails often three quarters the length of their height at least; theses are also covered completely in fur. Ratlings wear practical clothes, often hooded cloaks to hide their race while moving around populated areas. They also often wear trinkets, like animal charms, bones or coloured ribbons, which are tied to tails, wrists, belts or hung around the neck.

Relations: Ratlings get along well with other monstrous races, as they often have a common stigmatism for being different and uncultured; however they get along equally as well with any societies that accept them as an equal. In some cases ratlings have been known to provide intelligence networks in cities for the local defence, but they are also just as likely to be the backbone of underground thievesí guilds depending on the reception the city inhabitance has for them. In most cases ratlings are viewed as a nuisance and disliked, even when they are being useful.

Alignment: Ratlings tend towards true neutrality, to them good and evil is something that happens for the other races, so much so they donít even have words for them in their own tongue. Ratlings invariably will do whatever it takes to survive, including killing and stealing if needed, however they have a true altruism for others they deem as equal, like their family. Ratlings can be considered chaotic in their individualistic mannerisms and diverse adaptability, and if this is overly emphasised then it is not out of place to have a chaotic ratling. However this is normally countered by their allegiance to their family and their methodical practices, which keeps them neutral.

Ratling Lands: Ratlings tend not to have lands of their own, although they are perfectly capable of living without the reliance of others. However this tends not to happen often, as although ratling societies are very large they make a very low impact on the land they live in and are frequently encroached upon. Ratlings tend to live along side other communities, in near by forests and caves if the settlement isnít large enough, or actually within the city boarders if it is. They live off their production and protection, however they also tend to provide a service that often goes unnoticed, like maintaining travel routes and keeping crime down (unless they are the ones producing it, in which case its more organised crime) by killing muggers, bandits and dangerous wild animals and the like.

Religion: Ratlings tend not to believe in gods, but have a very shamanic type faith, often valuing animals and the force of nature. Some do follow gods however, and when they do they are almost always gods of nature or with some affinity to animals. Ratlings do not believe in a life after death, instead they believe all life in cyclic and that everyone returns when they pass on, as such they despise undead as it is the wrongful suspension of somethingís cyclic nature.

Language: Ratlings speak their own language Muroidic, which is a highly complex version of the communication that common rats still currently use, it consists of squeaks and chirps and sounds much like an average ratís noise, but with a more regular structure to it. It takes a lot less time to say something in Muroidic than it does with Common, and therefore it is favoured at all times when communing with another ratling, regardless of how impolite it is. Muroidic is next to impossible for others to comprehend, and more so to speak as lots of the sounds made actually fall outside of the human range of hearing and require a special sort of mouth to create. Muroidic has its own script which resembles scratching as all of the characters are constructed out of non touching straight lines.

Names: Ratlings are often not named at birth, and develop their own name as they begin to take on their own personality; as such, most names are nickname like in style, and tend to sum up the character of the ratling.

Adventurers: Ratlings are natural explorers, often seeking out and mapping whatís beyond their boarders and gathering knowledge on it, they also frequently seek out other ratling families in order to trade knowledge. Thus it is not uncommon for ratlings to wander far and wide collection knowledge and passing it around with each other, more so if conditions are worsening where they live. They may also seek out adventure every once in a while if they hear of something of value thatís obtainable and useful to them, or if they start to grow too much in size for them to sustain such a large family. When ratlings do adventure they are likely to be barbarians and rangers if they live outside of other communities, or fighters and rogues if they live inside as they are quick learners and can imitate other fighting styles. Regardless of their environment however most will be scout like in their fighting technique, taking full advantage of their relative speed to size to hit and run their opposition.


RATLING RACIAL TRAITS

+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Constitution, -2 Charisma: Ratlings rely on their dexterity and natural cunning to survive and overcome their enemies, as they are fairly weak for direct combat. Ratlings are generally disliked by most races and can be unruly even to those who do tolerate them.

Size Small: As a Small creature, a ratling gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but he uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.

Speed: Ratling base land speed is 20 feet. However, ratlings can move at
30 feet if they run on all fours (they must have nothing in their hands to do this)

Natural Bite Attack (1d4 damage): Ratlings have sharp teeth and strong jaws like their rat cousins and may make bite attacks as such.

Darkvision: Ratlings can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and ratlings can function just fine with no light at all.

+2 racial bonus to Listen checks: Ratlings have keen ears and can pick up on ultrasonic sounds that fall outside of normal human hearing.

+2 racial bonus to Climb checks or +2 racial bonus to Swim checks (chosen at character creation): Ratlings naturally adapt to movement in the environment that they grow up in, and excelling at either climbing or swimming (but not both).

+2 racial bonus to Escape Artist checks. Ratlings can collapse their bones slightly, allowing them to fit through small holes and slide out of bindings.

Collapsible Bones: Ratlings do not move at half speed when squeezing through tight areas, however they do still take the -4 penalty on attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Armour Class. This feature can only be used if the character is wearing flexible armour (such as leather or chain, but not plate) and whilst not carrying anything. The ratlings base speed bonus for moving on all fours is not hindered while squeezing as long as it can actually move in that way.

Automatic Languages: Common and Muroidic. Muroidic consists of squeaks and chirps, some of which are ultrasonic making any listen DC required to hear a conversation in Muroidic with human-like hearing +2 higher than normal. In addition as Muroidic is derived from the common language of rats, mice, gerbils and hamsters, a ratling can commune with these creatures as per the ďspeak with animalsĒ spell description, page 281 Players Handbook, however as ratlings use this language at a much higher complexity than these animals do, only very simple sentences can be formed.

Bonus Languages: Gnome, Goblin, Dwarven, Elven and Undercommon. Ratlings live amongst other races, under most major cities or on the outskirts of towns, and therefore commonly pick up popular languages of that area.

Favored Class: Scout. A multiclass ratling scout class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. Ratlings prefer the hit and run type of attack that makes full use of their dexterity and natural hiding abilities.

JackMage666
2008-09-14, 01:51 PM
This is a +1 LA.

Savage Species says that Small size comes with a -1 LA, but they lied. You gain a +1 AC/Attacks, and a +4 Hide Check. The major drawbacks are -4 Grapple and smaller weapons (1 less point of damage on average).

However, your ability adjustments make you WAY more awesome than a medium sized Fighter, as you have a total of +2 to attack, and +2 AC (From the higher Dex/Str, accordingly). Also, the 1 point of damage is negated by the higher Str.

So, +1 LA. Go ahead and throw in the 1d4 Bite. It won't change anything.

Reaper_Monkey
2008-09-14, 02:10 PM
Savage Species says that Small size comes with a -1 LA, but they lied. You gain a +1 AC/Attacks, and a +4 Hide Check. The major drawbacks are -4 Grapple and smaller weapons (1 less point of damage on average).


Well, and your carrying capacity drops, and you have to have things custom made (although not that much as there's lots of small people about) but yes, I see your point of there are pluses to the minus. However I'm unsure as to if it is your personal view that it is lying, or if it is widely agreed that it doesn't fit for balancing races?

Other than that however, the stat bonuses were meant to be balanced from being small, so its not a shock that its a +1 LA when you consider it doesn't, but would giving it a bite attack increase it again or not?

EDIT: Okay you edited to say that was fine. Well in that case, should I concede the attempt to make it a +0 LA, and give it a bite attack, would giving it claw attacks make any more of a difference (1d4 also as its small). As multiple attacks should increase the LA wouldn't it?

JackMage666
2008-09-14, 02:54 PM
Okay you edited to say that was fine. Well in that case, should I concede the attempt to make it a +0 LA, and give it a bite attack, would giving it claw attacks make any more of a difference (1d4 also as its small). As multiple attacks should increase the LA wouldn't it?

Generally, you get the LA if you get more attacks than someone of Full BAB would get at the same ECL (ECL 2 for you, so a 2nd level fighter.) With 2 Claws and a Bite, you'd get 3 Attacks at ECL 2, which can be a hard hitter.

Mix that with the fact that these guys would make awesome Rogues (The high Dex and Small size, with the High Str to boot) and you're getting 3 Sneak Attacks in melee/round, which is problematic.

Not necessarily enough to warrant another LA, perhaps, but I'm unsure.

Speaking as someone who's raised pet rats for year, though, I'd be reluctant to give them a claw attack... They're hands are more like a humans than something with claws (which is creepy to think about).

Also, it's generally considered that Small isn't a drawback, like Savage Species says. Savage Species seems to only take into account Melee characters - Being small is a huge boon to Rogue-likes and Arcane Casters.

Reaper_Monkey
2008-09-14, 04:02 PM
Not necessarily enough to warrant another LA, perhaps, but I'm unsure.

Speaking as someone who's raised pet rats for year, though, I'd be reluctant to give them a claw attack... They're hands are more like a humans than something with claws (which is creepy to think about).


First off, thanks for all the feedback you've already raised some good points I didn't consider like how well suited it is to being a rogue (I'm lucky I didn't put jumps or tumbles in now too).

For the calws - I was many asking to see how much "bang" I could get for my buck as it were, as I really didn't want to have a +1 LA and even though I wasn't planning on them having claws it might've convinced me to roll with it. However I personally don't think its fair really when you point out how well suited they are for SA bonuses too, so I will not be doing that.

However, I've edited the stats so they are balanced now, added the bite and cleared up a hole in one of the abilities I noticed. Does this seem more +0 LA material?

JackMage666
2008-09-14, 04:45 PM
Actually, that's much more suited as a +0 race. The only thing that sets them apart is the Bite, and it's no stronger than a dagger (actually, a tad weaker), though the fact it's never disarmed is a boon. The ability adjustment is much nicer (they're strong for a small race, though not for a medium race), but somewhat frail and on the weak side of personality. They're not particularly suited for any specific class (Rogue, mostly, though there arn't any real classes with a huge synergy of Wis and Dex).

Loos rather fair to me. Though, it would help if we could get a 3rd voice on it.

Lappy9000
2008-09-14, 04:55 PM
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Constitution, -2 Charisma: Rattlings rely on their dexterity and natural cunning to survive and overcome enemies.

One thing here, you don't really say why they have a Wisdom bonus or a Charisma penalty. You only defined the +2 Dex and the +2 Wis. This may just be personal preference, but I always think that races are eaiser to play when they have a single bonus and single penalty. Keep in mind that a bonus or penalty affects every aspect of the ability. Doing so also shoehorns them into certain classes more. If you're set on keeping the stat adjustments that way, be sure to explain why you listed each bonus/penalty.


Rattling base land speed is 20 feet. However, rattlings can move at
30 feet if they run on all fours (they mast have nothing in their hands to do this)

Collapsible Bones: Rattlings do not move at half speed when squeezing through tight areas, however they do still take the -4 penalty on attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Armour Class. This feature can only be used if the character is wearing flexible armour (such as leather or chain, but not plate) and whilst not carrying anything. The rattlings base speed bonus for moving on all fours is not hindered while squeezing as long as it can actually move in that way

Those are some neat little abilities. Overall however, the rattling are a little touch overpowered. Not much, but as they stand, they're a weak +1 LA, in my opinion. I'd throw in [Light Sensitivity (Ex): rattlings are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell], which should just about do it as far as balancing is concerned.

I'd like to see some fluff, because it's really hard to give you ideas based on nothing but the crunch. If I proposed any ideas as they stand, I'd feel like I'd be trippin' up all in your grill.

Reaper_Monkey
2008-09-14, 05:00 PM
They're not particularly suited for any specific class (Rogue, mostly, though there arn't any real classes with a huge synergy of Wis and Dex).

Loos rather fair to me. Though, it would help if we could get a 3rd voice on it.

Very good point, I guess monks who love to never be hit? Mind, monks can benefit from nearly anything. Besides, I don't mind it not being perfectly suited for one thing, its meant to be a general race like the core ones, which don't lend themselves overly for one thing and one thing only (although some of the core ones clearly do, yes I'm talking to you half-orc :smallannoyed:).

I'll wait to see if anyone else has anything else to say, but I'm personally quite happy with it. I cant think of anything else I want to add in mechanically that fits the flavour of the character so I think that's finalised (now I just have to finish the fluff). Thanks for your input.

TeeEl
2008-09-14, 05:16 PM
Yay rats!

Nitpick: "rattling" is is a common English word which has no connection with rats. Consider changing the spelling to "ratling" or something else altogether for clarity.

Looks like a very strong LA +0, but nowhere near LA +1. Bonuses to spellcaster stats tend to raise a red flag but a lot of divine casters use charisma as well as wisdom so that balances out nicely, and they also take a hit to constitution which hurts for everybody.

These guys have a lot of monk synergy: they're a small-size race that gets 30' movement when unarmed, a natural attack, and bonuses to both dexterity and wisdom. Plus nice skill boosts. But hell, we're talking about monks here, so I don't think this represents a balance problem so much as a newbie trap. "OMG these guys would make uber monks!"

Reaper_Monkey
2008-09-14, 07:25 PM
One thing here, you don't really say why they have a Wisdom bonus or a Charisma penalty. You only defined the +2 Dex and the +2 Wis. This may just be personal preference, but I always think that races are eaiser to play when they have a single bonus and single penalty. Keep in mind that a bonus or penalty affects every aspect of the ability. Doing so also shoehorns them into certain classes more. If you're set on keeping the stat adjustments that way, be sure to explain why you listed each bonus/penalty.



Those are some neat little abilities. Overall however, the rattling are a little touch overpowered. Not much, but as they stand, they're a weak +1 LA, in my opinion. I'd throw in [Light Sensitivity (Ex): rattlings are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell], which should just about do it as far as balancing is concerned.

I'd like to see some fluff, because it's really hard to give you ideas based on nothing but the crunch. If I proposed any ideas as they stand, I'd feel like I'd be trippin' up all in your grill.

I did have it describing the why better, but then I changed the stats so it was just something I threw in temporarily. I've finished writing it up and hopefully it makes more sense now. I've also just written up lots of fluff, so that'll help you on working out the feel with any luck (well, it bloody well should do).

Im not too sure about light sensitivity to be fair.. it if does need balance I might drop darkvision down to 30 foot, or just replace it with low light.



Yay rats!

Nitpick: "rattling" is is a common English word which has no connection with rats. Consider changing the spelling to "ratling" or something else altogether for clarity.

Looks like a very strong LA +0, but nowhere near LA +1. Bonuses to spellcaster stats tend to raise a red flag but a lot of divine casters use charisma as well as wisdom so that balances out nicely, and they also take a hit to constitution which hurts for everybody.

These guys have a lot of monk synergy: they're a small-size race that gets 30' movement when unarmed, a natural attack, and bonuses to both dexterity and wisdom. Plus nice skill boosts. But hell, we're talking about monks here, so I don't think this represents a balance problem so much as a newbie trap. "OMG these guys would make uber monks!"

Good point! Changed, thanks for that, I'm pretty sure when I first wrote it it had one t, but nevermind. And yeah, thinking about it a monk class does fit well for it, but as you say, its not really like its going to break the bank with its abilities. And its speed boost only really takes it back on to par with an average character.. hell, I might've made something that makes monks average for once! =D

Also glad you like the rats =) :smallbiggrin:

sigurd
2008-09-15, 10:12 AM
I like them.

A question about 'Collapsible Bones' I think it would have another serious ability in tunnels.

A body with collapsible bones, unencumbered by any equipment, can fit through a very very small aperture. A character with this feat can wiggle through a hole the circumference of its head.


Do you want to compare against another Ratling from a different source? Unless you are also "Frankthedm" :).

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-house-rules/80639-race-still-ecl-0-a.html

Yours has a whole lot more fluff to give it a rounded feel.

Sigurd

Reaper_Monkey
2008-09-15, 10:50 AM
A question about 'Collapsible Bones' I think it would have another serious ability in tunnels.

A body with collapsible bones, unencumbered by any equipment, can fit through a very very small aperture. A character with this feat can wiggle through a hole the circumference of its head.


I had considered this, however to move through an area the size of your head takes a DC 30 Escape Artist check, as I've given it a +2 to that already, and they have anatomy different to that of a regular rat, I felt it shouldn't gain the ability to do this with ease.
I did consider stating that the dimensions that state if your squeezing or not might be lowered, but they are already small enough as it is so the size isn't that large.

However I might put it in that they need only squeeze if the space is, say, twice the circumference of their head, and they still move at full speed... or I could state that it increases to +4 EA check when doing this however?
But I've a feeling that too much added to this feature will make a useful utility ability that's not overly powered, slightly too powerful in some cases and in doing so will kick it into a +1 LA.

Although thinking about it maybe expanding it to say that it takes half the time to don and remove armour, or perhaps lower the DC for massive damage by 2 (so its a DC 13, reason being that the bones shift with some of the force and therefore cushion the overall harm) might be slightly more inkeeping with the feel without over egging one utility. Thoughts?

I'm glad you like it though anyway =)



EDIT: As I just spotted your edit I might as well not double post.


Do you want to compare against another Ratling from a different source? Unless you are also "Frankthedm" :).

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-house-rules/80639-race-still-ecl-0-a.html

That is shockingly similar.. I'm glad it fits in with what other people consider to be core aspects of a humanoid rat, however I hadn't seen this before no (although I do find it entertaining how we're both trying to make it +0 LA).

It does have some other interesting concepts, like resistance to disease and improvement to Survival, and although Survival would fit nicely with their feel, I don't feel that it would be a racial thing (as some would grow up in cities too, and its more than they are a quick learner and adapt, so wouldn't need it as a racial skill).

I do think their version is very different from that of mine though, I'm not too sure why they've got bonus to saves in general in there too... and its more aimed at rogues, but I'm biased and prefer mine I thinks. Thanks for pointing it out however =)

sigurd
2008-09-15, 12:10 PM
Here's a 'Rat-man'

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Rat-Man_(DnD_Race)

Big difference here that I can see are the age and size tables. These are medium creatures.

Reaper_Monkey
2008-09-15, 02:30 PM
Here's a 'Rat-man'

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Rat-Man_(DnD_Race)

Big difference here that I can see are the age and size tables. These are medium creatures.

Wow, you are adept at uncovering these! I like how the stats are the same =)

These are very much more rat/man rather than humanoid rats, again more aimed at rogues, which isn't really where I wanted this race to go (well, not too much).

Although yea, I have forgotten to do an age definition for this race.. I'll have to give that some thought now :smallconfused:. Also on the note of doing a table for height and weight, what does it mean when you have...

{table=head]Base Weight | Weight Modifier
90 lbs. | ◊ (2d4) lbs.[/table]

... I'm confused as to how the modifier works, as in this case you can have something 720 lbs heavy if you take it to mean truly multiplying, which is clearly not the case, can someone explain?

sigurd
2008-09-15, 08:58 PM
I collect background material.

On the ratmen weight.

I believe the weight is a typo. The main description lists the male weight as 115 to 130 lb - I can't see how their equation creates that number.


Sigurd

I really like your ratlings and hope to use them.

Lappy9000
2008-09-15, 09:59 PM
Im not too sure about light sensitivity to be fair.. it if does need balance I might drop darkvision down to 30 foot, or just replace it with low light.

Nah, they're probably good as is, I was just throwing out ideas :smallsmile:

I really like these guys (redux:Yay rats!), I just don't like the name ratling (that's just me. Obviously it's your preference.), although the name is much, much better than "ratfolk."

Debihuman
2008-09-16, 05:23 AM
Although yea, I have forgotten to do an age definition for this race.. I'll have to give that some thought now :smallconfused:. Also on the note of doing a table for height and weight, what does it mean when you have...

{table=head]Gender | Base Height | Height Modifier|Base Weight | Weight Modifier
Male | 4'7 | +2d8 |90 lbs. | ◊ (2d4) lbs.[/table]

... I'm confused as to how the modifier works, as in this case you can have something 720 lbs heavy if you take it to mean truly multiplying, which is clearly not the case, can someone explain?

You need to look at the full chart because you aren't actually multiplying the weight (although it looks that way from the chart). I've added the rest of the chart for clarification.

You are actually multiplying the number you got for the Height Modifier (which in this case the number you got from the 2d8). Then you take THAT number and multiply it to get the weight.

Max Height on 2d8 is 16 so you get to add 16 inches to your critter. Then you take that number (16) and multiply it by 2d4. Say you end up with 8.

16X8=128 so you add 128 pounds.

Thus your creature is 16 inches taller than base height. Your creature is 5'4. and 128 pounds heavier than base weight. Your creature weighs 218 lbs.
So, he's a chubby ratman not the ratman whose bones would collapse under his own weight!

This is the tallest and heaviest that your creature can be.

Had you gotten a 2 on your 2d4, your creature would only weigh 32 pounds more and would be a svelte 122 lbs.

This way the numbers somewhat corrolate.

Debby

Reaper_Monkey
2008-09-16, 05:52 AM
Nah, they're probably good as is, I was just throwing out ideas :smallsmile:

I really like these guys (redux:Yay rats!), I just don't like the name ratling (that's just me. Obviously it's your preference.), although the name is much, much better than "ratfolk."

Yeah thats fine, I can see why you suggested it, and as you had no fluff to go on it would make sense. Glad you like them thought, all but the name that is. The name is more what other people would call them, I had considered giving them a name that they call themselves (a bit like the Eskimo/Inuit case). But a good name eluded me, and what with the way in which they don't develop personal names until they become distinctive (large litters makes it hard to ID new borns anyway) I felt that they'd probably not name themselves all that much, and so would just come to accept what others called them.



You are actually multiplying the number you got for the Height Modifier (which in this case the number you got from the 2d8). Then you take THAT number and multiply it to get the weight.

Ah! This makes so much more sense now!! I've always ended up just choosing weight to fit the build I wanted as I could never work out how to do this properly. Thank you for clearing this up! :smallsmile:

Behold_the_Void
2008-09-16, 02:17 PM
Just checking, you know they have stats in the 3e Oriental Adventures, right? I know some abilities are related to the Shadowlands, but there are ways around that.

Reaper_Monkey
2008-09-16, 03:29 PM
Just checking, you know they have stats in the 3e Oriental Adventures, right? I know some abilities are related to the Shadowlands, but there are ways around that.

I don't play Oriental Adventures actually, so no I did not. Although I've just looked them up, they are nice, fluffed and stat-ed to the setting however. That probably could be edited away, but these are too human for my liking (my, I am picky about what percentages of what goes into this race! Mind I do have the advantage now of just making it myself instead of whining about the ill fitting concepts of others). I do like the ability to pick up scent as a free feat with high enough Wisdom, but as my build already improves Wisdom the prerequisites would have to be increased... I'm also not sure what stat based free feats do to LA :smalleek:

Thanks for pointing this out to be though, at least I've uncovered a few backup options should I ever play with a DM or doesn't allow homebrewing and I want to play this sort of character (although all of the builds I've seen do seem to be very rogue stream-lined, which is a bit of a pitty).