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Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 01:10 AM
Hey all. Lately I've been craving to create a custom base class. I have an idea, but it needs fleshing out. The basic idea/inspiration behind the class is the Blood Magus PrC from CArc, but I want to make it more combat oriented rather than a caster class. For those of you who have seen Avatar: The Last Airbender, I'd like this class to be similar to Bloodbending. I want to have all of the abilities blood related, however I have writer's block.

So, I need help coming up with blood-based class abilities and the base class progression for the class. Please expand on what I've listed or (more preferably) post your own ideas for abilities dealing with blood. Here are some requirements/ideas for the class:


Ability idea: Bloodletting. Makes enemy bleed or drains their blood for some effect.
Ability idea: Drain own blood for different effects.
Ability idea: Taste target's blood and know something about them or some other effect.
Track by the scent of blood?
I want to include the "Awaken Blood" and "Bloodwalk" abilities from the Blood Magus PrC. They embody the class concept.
I do not want spells for the class. The class should be more combat oriented but not up close and personal like a fighter. More like a rogue with magical abilities.


Lastly, I need a better name than "Bloodbender." Please give me some suggestions, however the name is the last thing that needs to be decided. The abilities need to be done first.

Ashen Lilies
2008-09-21, 01:18 AM
How about 'Blood Knight'? Or is that too fighter-ish? Also, I've idea that I had but never been able to balance/mechanize (since I don't play DnD) and that would be Blood Sacrifice, ie. Take away your own health to do extra damage to the enemy. There's probably something like that that exists in some splatbook out there though. As I said, I don't play. Could be the replacement of the rogue's 'Sneak Attack', though you'd need high hitdice and a dedicated healer around for it to be effective more than once or twice per day without dying.

Owrtho
2008-09-21, 01:32 AM
Well, you could call it the bloodletter. As for ability ideas, perhapse something like blood trace. When they make a successful attack with a slashing weapon, they may choose to activate the ability extending the reach of the weapon by 5 ft (from the blood following their slashes) for a number of rounds equal to their level. This could later progress into the ability to make a sheild out of blood. Other possible abilities would be things like actualy using blood to attack (an example would be like Crona in Soul Eater who can have their spilt blood turn into spikes). I'd think if you want to make it more of a fighter, it should do more of actualy using blood to attack.

Owrtho

Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 01:39 AM
Maybe this will help clarify what I'm looking for. Consider the Monk class. Though the class is based around unarmed attacks, they also have unique abilities due to their ki. For my class, the Blood Shaman (another name idea), I would want it to focus around a main attack, probably with slashing weapons, but have other unique abilities dealing with blood. Does that help any or did I confuse everyone even more?

Najian
2008-09-21, 05:32 AM
In the MMORPG Vanguard there is a certain class called the Blood Mage... it's basicly a healer class with a mean offensive bite but you might get some ideas from it for your own build:

http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Blood_Mage

Here you can check out it's skills and such. You would have to convert the skills you like a bit to fit your profile. It's not really a fighter though, however you can combine the spellcasting elements with a bit of on-touch. The symbiots and buffs are quite cool. :smalltongue:

(I actually played this class and it was awesome)

boomwolf
2008-09-21, 07:07 AM
Blood Magus, Complete Arcane. no need to baseclass it.

Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 11:10 AM
Najian, that seems pretty cool. I might be able to get some ideas from that. Or maybe I'll convert the class entirely, if it hasn't been done already.

boomwolf, did you even read my post? Don't post if you have nothing to contribute.

Knaight
2008-09-21, 11:34 AM
Bloodsucker maybe? Or Bloodhunter. Possibly also Lifewatcher.

phoenixcire
2008-09-21, 11:34 AM
How about Sanguine Soldier?

Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 11:39 AM
Great name ideas guys, but that really is the last thing I need to come up with. I need to figure out more unique abilities that distance the class concept from the Incarnate.

Knaight
2008-09-21, 11:49 AM
Slippery Handle-When you get sneak attack damage you can choose to take a full round action to attack the hand, if it hits people have to make a dex check after every attack or the weapon slips out of their hand, and they take a penalty to resisting disarm checks. How big of a penalty and the difficulty of the dex check should probably have to do with class level. Probably 10+class level for dex check, and class level for resisting disarm.

Blood in the Eyes-You nick someone on the forehead, and they take a -2 penalty to attacks and such because they can't see. Or something along these lines.

The Glyphstone
2008-09-21, 11:49 AM
There's a Blackguard/Paladin spell in Spell Compendium that deals you HP damage in exchange for potential bonus dice on your next attack. I can't remember what it's called, but it's perfect for this, either as a class ability or a SLA.

Bago!!!
2008-09-21, 11:50 AM
How about a class like the soul knife, cept you make a weapon out of your blood. Make it more combat orriented, with all sorts of things.

Well, you could always try a point system similiar to incarnum but make them blood points, which completely depend on your base hit points you have divided by, say, 2?

Then, as you gain levels, you can sacrifice points to gain additional abilities, start becoming immune to certain effects.



And no shields of blood or armor pieces of blood. Shields are for squares. :smallamused:

phoenixcire
2008-09-21, 11:57 AM
Sanguine Sustenance-using the blood of an enemy like a healing potion.

Also, you don't want a rogue like character for this. You either want a warrior who relishes in all the bloody chaos he creates or a mage that utilizes blood for different effects. Depending on which kind of class (fighter or mage) you would see different abilities. Maybe try making it a Prestige Class because it sounds like it will be too powerful to balance out otherwise.

katarl
2008-09-21, 12:03 PM
I see this guy as being very high in hit points, even if a caster, and basing any special abilities on constitution. This would be doubly important if you have to sacrifice hp for powers.

I love the idea of a class that bases itself on the 'power has a price' precept. I don't know if that's what you're going for, but one idea is that you could expend hp, take ability drain and status effects (like fatigue) for powerful effects, and permanently reduce stats for permanent effects.

Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 12:28 PM
Great job Knaight, The_Glyphstone, Bago!!!, phoenixcire, and katarl! That's exactly the kind of stuff that I'm looking for.

@ Knaight: Great ideas, but you mention sneak attack. Should I really give it something another class already has? Or how could I make I unique "attacking an opponent who is denied their Dex to AC" ability for the class? Anyone have an idea?

@ The_Glyphstone: Thanks! The spell is called Divine Sacrifice. 1st level spell, 1 round/level, "your first attack each round deals an extra 5d6 damage if it hits, and you take 10 points of damage each time you make such an attack, whether or not the attack is successful." I love the idea, but it seems like I'd kill myself quickly. Perhaps I should give the class the ability to heal himself somehow? Or would that be overpowered?

@ Bago!!!: I'm not sure a "blood dagger" would make sense. It seems almost too farfetched. However, I love the idea of blood points. I could spend blood points to use abilities like the Divine Sacrifice spell mentioned above instead of actual health. Or should I actually get hurt for using it? And is that too similar to Power Points?

@phoenixcire: I like the healing idea.It might be contradictory for a blood-based, but drinking blood seems too vampiric. Maybe he can quickly clot his own wounds, acting like a cure spell dependent on level? Or should healing be reserved for divine classes.......or maybe he IS divine. That's always a thought. As far as making it a PrC, I usually hate making them and would prefer to take 20 levels in a base class. I'll try to make it a base first, play test it a bit and see how it turns out before resorting to a PrC.

@katarl: That's exactly what I'm going for. I'm still leaning towards rogue-ish rather than fighter or caster.

On an unrelated note: What does PEACH mean in thread titles and what does SLC stand for?

Knaight
2008-09-21, 12:39 PM
Maybe don't have sneak attack then, I was reading too much into rogue like. PEACH means please evaluate and critique honestly, which is pretty pointless to put in the title anyways. SCL I don't know.

Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 12:41 PM
Oops, I meant SLA. But back on topic. This class will need a high HD, but how high? I don't think it should be less than a d10, but a d12 might overshadow more melee oriented classes. I don't want to overpower this class (even though the campaign I play in is extremely overpowered).

I'm still not sure if I want to make it more of a rogue-like stealth class, or an up close and personal melee class. I was leaning towards rogue at the start, but after seeing some of your ideas I'm not so sure. What do you think?

Knaight
2008-09-21, 12:42 PM
Spell like ability.

Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 01:01 PM
Ah, thanks. All right, I've made up my mind. I would like the class to be closer to a fighter rather than a stealthy rogue. Here's what I've decided on for sure so far:

Abilities: CON CON CON. Strength for attacks.
HD: d12
Alignment: Any non-good
Class skills: Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Profession, Spot, Survival, Swim
Skill points: 3 + Int mod (x4 at level 1)

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Simple and martial weapons; All armor and shields (except tower shields)

LostOne27
2008-09-21, 01:12 PM
you might want to look into some of WoD's vampire abilities based on blood points. They'd need a bit of conversion, but if you're going to be using a blood-point system, there's some cool things in there that could be quite useful.

Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 01:29 PM
I actually have decided against blood points. I'd rather use HP to make things less complicated.

SilentNight
2008-09-21, 01:43 PM
Hematoscion? You could go similar to the soulknife or Clothfighter (homebrew here) and allow them to make weapons of their blood. Then give abilities like this.

Sanguine Toxico: If you are poisoned and make a successful saving throw, you may opt to have the poison remain in your blood stream. For one minute per two class levels, all attacks with your blood weapons confer this poison to the opponent.

Obviously this is potentially overpowered but you get the idea.

Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 01:58 PM
Not a bad idea, but I still don't think using their blood as an actual weapon would work. At least not as a melee weapon, perhaps some sort of touch effect. Anyway, here is the Bloodletting ability for the class. It might be overpowered, but the campaign I play in is too. However, I still want your feedback regarding balancing issues. Oh, and I've decided on a name. The Sanguine.

Bloodletting: The Sanguine is capable of dealing lethal, lasting blows by slashing open gaping wounds. If the Sanguine successfully hits with a slashing weapon, the opponent must immediately make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ˝ class level + Con mod). If the target fails, the Sanguine opens a bleeding, painful wound that deals 1d6 bleeding damage. This damage increases every two levels beyond 1st. The damage from blood loss begins on the next turn and ignores any damage reduction the subject may have. These wounds stack with other wounds opened by the Sanguine, with wounds opened by wounding weapons, and wounds opened in other ways. Blood loss may be so great that it induces death from massive damage.

One d6 of wounds is closed by one d8 worth of healing (as per a cure spell) or 10 points of healing (as per a heal spell). Five points of Fast Healing or one point of Regeneration also removes 1d6 worth of wounds. A full-round Heal check with the DC equal to 15+Sanguine's Level+X will remove xd6 worth of wounds. The wounds do not close by themselves and will usually leave behind scars.

Example: An 17th level Sanguine is entitled to four attacks and can create 9d6 bleeding wounds. The Sanguine's attacks a foe and hits twice out of the four times. The two attacks deal normal damage. The target makes two Fort saves (DC 24) and fails both. In addition to the normal weapon damage, the two attacks create 18d6 worth of wounds which bleed the next round and all subsequent rounds unless treated.

phoenixcire
2008-09-21, 02:13 PM
Not a bad idea, but I still don't think using their blood as an actual weapon would work. At least not as a melee weapon, perhaps some sort of touch effect. Anyway, here is the Bloodletting ability for the class. It might be overpowered, but the campaign I play in is too. However, I still want your feedback regarding balancing issues. Oh, and I've decided on a name. The Sanguine.

Bloodletting: The Sanguine is capable of dealing lethal, lasting blows by slashing open gaping wounds. If the Sanguine successfully hits with a slashing weapon, the opponent must immediately make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ˝ class level + Con mod). If the target fails, the Sanguine opens a bleeding, painful wound that deals 1d6 bleeding damage. This damage increases every two levels beyond 1st. The damage from blood loss begins on the next turn and ignores any damage reduction the subject may have. These wounds stack with other wounds opened by the Sanguine, with wounds opened by wounding weapons, and wounds opened in other ways. Blood loss may be so great that it induces death from massive damage.

One d6 of wounds is closed by one d8 worth of healing (as per a cure spell) or 10 points of healing (as per a heal spell). Five points of Fast Healing or one point of Regeneration also removes 1d6 worth of wounds. A full-round Heal check with the DC equal to 15+Sanguine's Level+X will remove xd6 worth of wounds. The wounds do not close by themselves and will usually leave behind scars.

Example: An 17th level Sanguine is entitled to four attacks and can create 9d6 bleeding wounds. The Sanguine's attacks a foe and hits twice out of the four times. The two attacks deal normal damage. The target makes two Fort saves (DC 24) and fails both. In addition to the normal weapon damage, the two attacks create 18d6 worth of wounds which bleed the next round and all subsequent rounds unless treated.

How about starting with 1d4 then progressing. Like 1d4 at first, 1d6 at 3rd, 1d8 at 5th, 1d10 at 7, 1d12 at 9, 1d20 at 11, 2d12 at 13, 3d10 at 15, 3d12 at 17 and finally 2d20 at 19.

Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 02:32 PM
Hmm 2d20 by level 19 isn't high enough. Again, I'm comparing this to a similar ability in my campaign that (IMO) is overpowered. However, I think this does need nerfing. After comparing the maximum possible damage of Bloodletting and the other ability (I'd post it but it was made by someone else so I don't know if he'd want me to), I think it would be fair to decrease the d6's to d4's.

Here's another ability:

Blood in the Eyes: Starting at level 3, you can take a standard action to make an attack aimed above the target's eyes. If the attack hits, in addition to dealing normal damage (and possible bleeding from Bloodletting) the target becomes blind for 1 round.

Is blindness to powerful, even for 1 round?

Owrtho
2008-09-21, 02:37 PM
I feel like my post is being ignored...

Except for this. maby.

And no shields of blood or armor pieces of blood. Shields are for squares. :smallamused:

If that is indeed a reference to my previous post, Id ment more of a temporary wall granting cover or conceilment made out of blood by swinging your bloodsoaked blade.

Anyways, I'd think it should focus on using its enemies blood to fuel its abilities, and only use its own when there is no other sources to use.

Owrtho

Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 02:45 PM
Sorry you felt ignored. I agree with you that it should use the enemies blood for abilities, but there should also be some that require his own. As for the blood shield, I don't see how there would be enough blood to create a large enough object to warrant cover. Perhaps more of a blood mist? Here's two more ability ideas:

Blood-stained Armor: At level 2, the Sanguine begins to tap into the power that lies within his blood. He gains the ability to open wounds on his own body and magically harden the blood that flows out. He may sacrifice hit points, up to half his level rounded down, to increase his AC. For each HP lost, he gains 1 AC. This increase lasts for 3 + Con mod rounds.

Swift Clotting: Starting at level 2, the Sanguine gains the ability to form blood clots faster than the normal person. This ability functions as a Cure Light Wounds spell. The Sanguine can use Swift Clotting as many times equal to his Con mod per day. The ability is a standard action. As he increases in level, Swift Clotting’s healing ability improves. At 4th level, it begins to function as Cure Moderate Wounds. At 6th, Cure Serious Wounds. At 8th, Cure Critical Wounds.

Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 03:13 PM
Here's another (I'm on a roll!):

Savage Sacrifice: At 4th level, you can sacrifice hit points to increase your weapon damage for 1 round. As a swift action, lose HP, up to half your level rounded down. For each hit point lost, your melee attack damage this round increases by 1d6.

Zeta Kai
2008-09-21, 03:21 PM
I hope that these are inspiring; here are the preliminary special abilities for my upcoming Hematomancer (formerly known as the Sanguimancer):

Anemia (Su): At 1st level, inflicts Constitution damage for 1 hour per class level
Vein Slash (Su): At 2nd level, slashing & Constitution damage with a touch attack
Splatter (Su): At 3rd level, designated target is Constitution damaged, everyone within 10’ of them is dazed (Will Save to resist)
Vampiric Kiss (Su): At 4th level, energy drain with a successful grapple
Arterial Spray (Su): At 5th level, sicken & Constitution damage in a cone
Boiling Blood (Su): At 6th level, fire & Constitution damage from a short distance
Heartbreak (Su): At 7th level, nauseate & Constitution damage with a touch attack
Sanguine Soul (Su): At 8th level, energy drain from a short distance
Hemorrhage (Su): At 9th level, piercing & Constitution damage with a death effect
Blood Bath (Su): At 10th level, everyone within 30’ is Constitution damaged & you gain 1 temporary HP for point of Constitution damage inflict
Bloodless: At 10th level, the Hematomancer is now immune to flanking, critical hits, Constitution checks & damage, & Fortitude saves

Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 03:27 PM
Interesting ideas. Is that a prestige class?
Here's 5 more abilities:

Trail of Blood: Starting at 5th level, the Sanguine gains the Track feat and the Scent special ability. However, he may only track or detect a target if they had been recently wounded.

Blood Mist: At 6th level, once per day, the Sanguine can manipulate the blood on his weapon. If he had recently successfully hit an opponent with a slashing weapon, he can swing his weapon around in the air, creating a dense fog of blood. Blood Mist functions like the Fog Cloud spell, however, everyone in the mist other than the Sanguine must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ˝ level + Con mod) each round or become sickened.

Bloody Grip: Starting at 9th level, you can choose to take a standard action to make a melee attack with a slashing weapon against your opponent’s hand. If the attack hits, in addition to the normal weapon damage (and possible bleeding damage from Bloodletting), the target’s hands become slippery with blood. Every time the target attempts to attack, they must make a Dexterity check (DC 10 + ˝ level + Con mod) or the weapon slips out of their hand. They also receive a -2 penalty to resisting disarm checks.

Taste the Memories: Starting at level 12, through attuning himself to the secret song of the blood, the Bloodletter can tap into the small memory banks that all cells hold. By tasting the target’s blood, the bloodletter learns all thoughts and memories the target had for one whole day previous to the time the blood sample was spilled.

Seeing Red: At level 14, whenever the Sanguine engages an opponent whose hp is below 50%, he gains +4 Strength, +4 Constitution, immunity to fear and charm effects, and +1 to all saves against effects originating from his opponent. These effects are temporary until the target is dead or the Sanguine attacks a different target that had more than 50% of their maximum HP.

Zeta Kai
2008-09-21, 05:28 PM
Interesting ideas. Is that a prestige class?

In a word, yes.

Also, nice abilities. Rather gruesome, if you think about them.

Bajaaku
2008-09-21, 05:34 PM
Thanks. Ok, I think I have the class done now. In order to reduce confusion, I am going to make a new topic with the "rough draft" of the class for people to critique there. This topic was more for brain-storming. Thank you all for helping me out and please check the new topic, which I will make soon, for the details of the class. I need help balancing it and organizing the level progression.