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phoenixcire
2008-09-25, 09:45 AM
Hey, I made this class quite a while ago(around 4 years ago) but never got a chance to use it. So I wanted to see what everyone thought of it. Here it goes.


Shadow Warrior

Abilities Charisma is important for Shadow Warriors as his Shadow Sense is dependent on it. Dexterity and Wisdom are used by many of his class skills. Strength is important to make his attack hit harder and more often.

Alignment Shadow Warriors may be of any alignment but tend to lean towards neutral alignments more often that not.


Shadow Warrior
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+0|Shadow Sense

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+0|Shadow Speed 10, Darkvision

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+1|

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+1|Shadow Speed 20, Shadow Deflection 1

5th|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+1|Stealth

6th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+5|
+2|Shadow Speed 30

7th|
+7/+2|
+2|
+5|
+2|

8th|
+8/+3|
+2|
+6|
+2|Shadow Speed 40, Shadow Deflection 2

9th|
+9/+4|
+3|
+6|
+3|Darkness

10th|
+10/+5|
+3|
+7|
+3|Shadow Speed 50

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+3|
+7|
+3|Veil of Shadows

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+4|
+8|
+4|Shadow Speed 60, Shadow Deflection 3

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+4|
+8|
+4|Shadow Flight

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+4|
+9|
+4|Shadow Speed 70

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+5|
+9|
+5|Supreme Darkvision

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+10|
+5|Shadow Speed 80, Shadow Deflection 4

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+5|

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+11|
+6|Shadow Speed 90

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+6|

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+12|
+6|Shadow Speed 100, Shadow Deflection[/table]


Hit Die: d8
Skill Points: 2+Int Modifier (x4 at first level)
Class Skills: Balance(Dex), Hide(Dex), Intimidate(Cha), Knowledge(Int), Listen(Wis), Move Silently(Dex), Profession(Wis), Spot(Wis), Wilderness Lore(Wis)

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
A Shadow Warrior is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. He does not have proficiency with any armor or shield. In addition, he loses all class features while wearing armor of any kind.

Shadow Sense: A Shadow Warrior can feel all shadows and everything in shadows within 60 feet of himself. This grants him a protection from surprise and a bonus to AC equal to his Charisma modifier. This is an insight bonus. Also, should a Shadow Warrior be in position where no shadows exist (at noon in the desert for instance) he loses this protection.

Shadow Speed: At 2nd level and every other level after, a Shadow Warrior gains +10 to his speed while in shadow and darkness.

Darkvision: A Shadow Warrior gains Darkvision 120'.

Shadow Deflection: At 4th level and every 4 levels after, the Shadow Warrior gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC.

Stealth: While in shadow, a Shadow Warrior can move silently at full speed.

Darkness: A Shadow Warrior can use Darkness(as per the spell) 1 time per day for every 3 class levels. Caster level is equal to his class level.

Veil of Shadows: A Shadow Warrior gains a +10 Competence bonus to Hide and is always considered hiding. A PC or NPC must make a Spot check to see him unless he lets himself be seen. If the Shadow Warrior is in a position where there arenít any shadows, he loses this bonus.

Shadow Flight: While in shadow or darkness, a Shadow Warrior can fly at his Shadow Speed/Perfect.

Supreme Darkvision: A Shadow Warriors Darkvision extends to his full range of vision. He can also see in magical darkness.

AstralFire
2008-09-25, 10:10 AM
Convention: Avoid odd skill point numbers.

Shadow Sense should probably be reworded as a type of Blindsense for clarity.

Darkvision should go up every few levels rather than 120 at level 2. I mean, yeah, Darkvision gets handed out like candy, but THAT level of Darkvision's really nice and you shouldn't get it in two levels. Races that innately have Darkvision should be able to add their existing sight to the range, too.

Veil of Shadows at 11 should probably end if he attacks, maybe keep a 20% miss chance. At 20, you could probably make it into a constant miss chance of 50%. Blindsight, true seeing, tremorsense etc could negate the miss chance.

DracoDei
2008-09-25, 10:16 AM
Unitial thoughts:
Change the Shadow Deflection to an untyped bonus so it can stack with Shield of Faith and a Ring of Protection. Also CONSIDER upping the HD.

phoenixcire
2008-09-25, 10:25 AM
Convention: Avoid odd skill point numbers.

Sorry, typo...also had one in the table where the fort save was 15. Fixed.


Shadow Sense should probably be reworded as a type of Blindsense for clarity

Please explain...it's been 4 years since I've done any playing.


Darkvision should go up every few levels rather than 120 at level 2. I mean, yeah, Darkvision gets handed out like candy, but THAT level of Darkvision's really nice and you shouldn't get it in two levels. Races that innately have Darkvision should be able to add their existing sight to the range, too.

I could start it at 60 and add 30 a couple of times. Like at 6th and 10th levels.


Veil of Shadows at 11 should probably end if he attacks, maybe keep a 20% miss chance. At 20, you could probably make it into a constant miss chance of 50%. Blindsight, true seeing, tremorsense etc could negate the miss chance.

Obviously, if he attacks he comes out of hiding. Just like normal. I should probably reword that ability as well.

The 20% miss chance, would that be against him? Like if he were using cover or under the effects of Displacement? Sorry for the confusion, like I said, it's been quite a long while.

phoenixcire
2008-09-25, 10:30 AM
Unitial thoughts:
Change the Shadow Deflection to an untyped bonus so it can stack with Shield of Faith and a Ring of Protection. Also CONSIDER upping the HD.

But I don't want it to stack with a Ring of Protection. That was my point in making it a deflection bonus. If I were to do that, his AC would be astronomical after including insight, dex, deflection, dodge(if players choose to get), and bracers of armor. Which is also why I put the hit die at 8. With that much protection, having too high a hit die would make him too powerful.

DracoDei
2008-09-25, 01:39 PM
Making it untyped only puts his AC on parity with the monk...

Human Paragon 3
2008-09-25, 01:58 PM
I personally wouldn't want to play this class. Compared to a Ranger or Paladin, his abilities just seem kind of boring, except for the bizarre "always hidden" quasi-invisibility he gets, which I can't quite gauge the power of. Maybe an ability to become incorporeal would make him more interesting, or some special attack that deals extra damage.

Sure he'll be fast and stealthy, but that's about it. A monk, fighter, or ranger with a ring of invisibility would be better at it. As it stands now, the character is very defensively oriented, which strikes me as funny for a full BAB class. He'll actually be less durable than a fighter or monk, who at least gets all good saves. What is the role of this class and what makes him unique compared to other, similar classes? Check out Kellus' "How I Design a Class" thread.

AstralFire
2008-09-25, 02:06 PM
But I don't want it to stack with a Ring of Protection. That was my point in making it a deflection bonus. If I were to do that, his AC would be astronomical after including insight, dex, deflection, dodge(if players choose to get), and bracers of armor. Which is also why I put the hit die at 8. With that much protection, having too high a hit die would make him too powerful.

Unless your AC is astronomical, it's irrelevant at high levels. At low levels, he's not going to have that much of an edge one way or another.

I agree the class is overall kind of weak and needs some spicing up. ToB Swordsage with Shadow Hand does this thing pretty well, but I know it's not exactly what you're looking for. Still, it'd be a good place to start looking at how to work his mechanics.

phoenixcire
2008-09-25, 03:09 PM
Originally I had abilities that I felt overpowered the class so I toned it back to this. I originally had Shadow Weapon, Improved Shadow Weapon and Master Shadow Weapon. I also had a Shadow Manipulation ability that could be used for a weird variety of effects.

With all that, I had written up a level 20 character with 9 attacks per round and an AC of 38 I believe. My minimum damage if I hit with every attack was 105. Max without crits was 154. And with a threat range of 15-20(12-20 if using 3.0 and not 3.5) I would crit quite easily.

I wanted a character that could hide in the shadows, come out and release a savage flurry of blows, and sink back into the shadows to do it again. The class was based around a character concept for a game I was playing with a group of friends. I presented it to the DM with the abilities mentioned above and he said it was too powerful. So then I toned it back but never got a chance to play it.

Later on I will write out those abilities so you can tell me if my original class was better.

AstralFire
2008-09-25, 03:15 PM
105-154 is actually underperforming compared to a somewhat optimized 2HF.

phoenixcire
2008-09-25, 08:27 PM
105-154 is actually underperforming compared to a somewhat optimized 2HF.

True, the damage I put up was based on 16 Str.

After doing some searching through boxes I finally found the notebook with my old character I mentioned earlier and realized that I wasn't exactly right about what I remembered. Let's start with abilities.

Shadow Weapon: A Shadow Warrior can create weapons that he is proficient with out of shadow. This is a free action. A shadow weapon is considered a light weapon. The shadow weapon exists as long as it is held by the Shadow Warrior that created it.

Improved Shadow Weapon: A Shadow Warrior's shadow weapon gains an enhancement bonus equal to 1/2 his Cha modifier. Also, he can imbue the weapon with one special ability whose market value modifier is not greater than 1/2 his Cha modifier.

Master Shadow Weapon: The shadow weapon's enhancement bonus raises to equal the Shadow Warrior's Cha modifier. He can also imbue up to two abilities in his weapon whose total market bonus is no greater than his Cha modifier.

On my weapon I had Speed(for the extra attacks) and Cooperative Strike(or something like that...it makes it so your off hand weapon hits with full str mod instead of half). AC was 43. Min damage was 189.

I took out the weapon abilities because I felt that being able to give them abilities made it overpowered. I still think that being able to make a weapon out of shadow is awesome from a roleplaying standpoint. Also, I need to reword the Shadow Manipulation ability before I post it as it is somewhat confusing.

Owrtho
2008-09-25, 08:58 PM
That sounds similar to the shadow craft ability of the shadowsmith in ToM.

Owrtho

AstralFire
2008-09-25, 09:01 PM
I would use the Soulknife as a basis for the Shadow Weapon ability. Making a free weapon based off of your Cha modifier like that pretty much guarantees you'll be getting huge Cha cheese characters or else they'll never use the ability at all.

phoenixcire
2008-09-28, 11:22 AM
I want to rework my Shadow Warrior because I realize that what's in my head isn't coming across in my class make-up. First I want to redo the Shadow Weapon, and I want it to be on par with magical weapons(or there'd be no reason for the ability). What I was wondering is, what is the max to enhancement bonus/ability bonus for weapons before they hit epic? I think I recall +10 but I cannot remember.

My plan is to make the weapon have a much larger progression than I originally made. I am going to take out the Cha base and make it level based. But I want to use the Market modifier that's in the DMG the number that players follow when giving their weapon abilities.

For example, if the total is +10 they can make a +5 Scimitar with the abilities Ghost Touch(1) Speed(3) and Keen(1). I shall name it Spectre Quickslicer. j/k

AstralFire
2008-09-28, 01:58 PM
Like I said, Soulknife (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/soulknife.htm)is probably your best bet as a comparison there (don't use its minimal class features as a benchmark for what you should have; the SK is generally agreed to be weak.)

I would avoid saddling this class with sneak attack; sneak attack is a very unevenly useful class feature and it'd prevent it from getting other nice stuff because of the potential havoc it could cause, while pidgeonholing its source of damage pretty bad. If someone really wants SA, multirogue or multininja + feats should cover it.