PDA

View Full Version : The Unknown World [4E]



Raz_Fox
2008-09-28, 01:07 PM
Alright, you berks, listen up. This is where you lot can start creating the Unknown World for the Unknown Adventures campaign. I'll start this off by linking to some of the existing fluff.

Oh, and an interesting thing to do with your fluff might be to write it from an in-universe perspective, like I did with my writings on Kathor.


Here's the fluff I've created (and I found this only this morning!)

Kathor was one of the great influences on this part of the world. The Kathorians dominated the entire land for leagues, the Kathorian religion began to drown out the others, and one couldn't walk across its dominions in a month. However, armies grow weaker as their countries grow bigger, and the apex of Kathor happened about a century ago. Its outer borders have collapsed, and the Kathorian Lord has had the good presence of mind to "grant" independance to all former countries within its borders, as long as alliances are kept in place. The Kathorian religion, with its "almighty god" and the gods below him (more accurately saints), has begun to fade from the former Kathorian countries and to be replaced by the older religions. Only a few countries still have alliances with Kathor in its dark hours - Stahlburg, The Pathfinders, The Kingdom of Erabel and Draline being prominent among them. - Finolan, chief librarian of Tan Anor.

Kathor? Yeah, I've been there. Trust me, you'd never survive. It's like... like a cobra, huddled over an astral diamond. You could try to grab the diamond, but you'd better have Valeran's luck to get away with yer life. Y'see, they all train for war there. Men, Women, even ones barely out of childhood. They've been fighting the kriffin' Tharisans for a decade now, along the river Asuddel. They have been around for kriffin' centuries, and their laws get more complex the higher up ye go. Y'see, yer average berk'd try to go along without breaking a law, and most of them can do it. But when you get up to the minor nobles, and then to the Kathorian council, they got laws piled on laws piled on laws. Regulations, amendments, the whole lot of 'em. So y'know what the Kathorians do? They have a ruling lord who stands outside the rules. They decide who does it every time the old lord dies, to make sure y've got someone with the virtue of Bahamut hisself. So, that's between everyone above the age of... twelve, I'd say, who can pick up a sword and skewer a thief, the kriffin' laws on top of laws and the Lord's templars... y'd last about a day. - Dianus, infamous tiefling scoundrel.

The river commonly called the Asuddel in Trading tongue is one of the most intriguing places in all of Old Kathor to the inquiring mind of a historian. The word Asuddel is a word absorbed into Trading tongue from an ancient language spoken by the Asur. The Asur civilization was centered around the Asuddel, concentrated especially at the mouth of the river. Interestingly, speculation from the leading experts on the subject - myself included - is wondering if the Asur were the ancestors of the thriving Eladrin lands to the north of Kathor. This speculation is helped by the fact that there is a small native Eladrin population - my ancestry. More evidence is added by the fact that the Asur language seems to be an archaic form of elven; the finding of the Library of Treems was one of the greatest archeological finds in the history of Kathor! The Asur had levels of culture in the arts and sciences that we have yet to reach. Unfortunately, the war with the Tharis Confederacy has cut short further exploration there, except for the foolishly brave-hearted, such as Inidya "Etheen" Jhons. - Finolan, Chief Librarian of Tan Anor.

The Kathorian god(god is always left uncapitalized in Kathorian religion, unless speaking of the Almighty) Kor was a Kathorian warrior who helped found the nation. Kor declined becoming Lord of Kathor three times, choosing instead to help train the warriors of Kathor. Kor's death propelled him into the pantheon, for he held the pass of Gals against the invasion of Udalie singlehandedly for three entire days, until the Kathorian army came to his rescue. Every fold of his white tabard and cloak was stained red with his blood, but according to every soldier from that fateful battle he was still alive. His chosen few, the warriors he had trained from their first day in the Kathorian army, carried him up onto the peak of Icehorn which overlooks the pass of Gals, where his spirit, or so it is said, consumed his broken body and soared into the sky. Kor was immediately included in the Kathorian pantheon of gods. -Finolan, Chief Librarian of Tan Anor.

Another of the Kathorian gods is the incorrigable Razta'alin. He was, according to legend, a peerless mage who advanced his natural talent for magic with stolen spellbooks (which were often returned with helpful annotations in the margins). Where he walked, the poor were helped, the starving fed, the law mocked and the Korathian warriors and judges eluded. He traveled on a broomstick from the Eladrin realms to the desert of Nov'Serra. He was eventually slain protecting the Lord of Korath from assassins. The Raven Queen appeared in person to tell him that death was not the end for such a man after the Almighty's heart. Legends are still told of the "Rogue-Mage"'s mortal deeds. -Finolan, Chief Librarian of Tan Anor.


Concept: Stahlberg is an elven city-state, located in an area rich with minerals. The kingdom is in a very defensible position, and is renowned for the quality of it's military. I envision it as much like Switzerland of the middle ages. Stahlberg remains politically neutral. It is known for the quality of its weapons and armor as well as the skill of some of it's artisans in clockwork oddities.

The primary export of the country is mercenaries, ranging from entire army units all the way down to individual soldiers of fortune. The Stahlberg troops are renowned for their efficiency and loyalty to their employer. They would not, for example, change sides in the middle of a battle, though it is possible that they might fight for a kingdom one week, only to contract with the opposition in the next conflict.

Stahlberg is ruled by merchant houses, who elect a leader every 20 or so years. The merchant council is a hotbed of intrigue, of course, as the various leaders jockey for position and power.

The Elves of Stahlberg, like most elves, love the natural world, but they are also craftsman and builders of great skill. They build with clean, simple lines, try to be as efficient as possible, and preserve the natural beauty of their lands.

The Elves of Stahlberg worship the Smith and the Warden. The Smith is a god of craftsmanship and creation, dedicated to the pursuit of quality, workmanship and constant improvement in the methods and skills of all aspects of industry. The Warden is a god of protection and conservation, who represents the care and preservation of the land, defense of the country of Stahlberg, and honoring of contracts and agreements. Both deities are somewhat distant. They are worshiped together, and seen as balancing each other. Worship is fairly formal and organized, with weekly services as well as various shrines and rituals. The elves of Stahlberg recognize that there are other Gods, but they do not worship them.

I am using vaguely Germanic names for the area to help give it appropriate flavor, but I am totally up to adjusting things as necessary.

Baxter190
2008-09-28, 01:28 PM
Ok, so to the east is the Chito Dotert (Great Desert in Elven), where the psuedo Arabic Drow inhabit, and no one knows whats beyond it, except maybe the drow. To the extrem north is a large volcanoe, where the Eladrin honor the Eldar fey spirit of the Summer, the fire fey (need a name for the Eldar fey). Surronding the volcanoe, due to the difference of the great heat of the volcanoe and its location in the frozen north, are great woods and planes where the Eladrin worship the fey of the Storm (lightning), Fall (Wind), and Spring (Earth). Outside of these areas is the great frozen north, which is what most non-Eladrin end up seeing. Here are the Eladrin who honor the spirits of water and the cold, and the Eldar fey spirit of Winter, (Water). The frozen north is full of frozen mountains, snow covered woodlans, and great barren plains of ice. Below the frozen cap of the world, but still way up north, is the Kislovic mountain chain, and the Urgoshic empire, (Dwarven empire). Ultra religious, and possibly the few that could stand up to and all out war with the elves, they are a theocratical empire, with everyone dvout followers, and its military ruled by the inquisition, which searches out heretics, and oftern carries out wars against Infidels, especially the Eladrin, who they belive heathens and have land that belong to them.

potatocubed
2008-09-28, 01:57 PM
Where's the barony, dude?

Um... indeterminately located? It's temperate, and quite isolated. It's a very small, but independent nation - the ruler is called a Baron because to be King of such a tiny place is a bit much. The eastern border is a primeval forest called the Midnight Wood. It's a very fey and weird place - eladrin and elves live there, but even they don't go too far in.

I see it as one of the most westerly outposts of civilisation on the continent. A road traces the edge of the Midnight Wood, running north and south, and is the barony's main contact with the larger nations to the north and east. The trek to the south is a long and difficult one, following an ancient roadway that runs through untamed lands, and leads to the mysterious lands of... the south. (Note my uselessness with names. :smalltongue:)

There are rumours of all sorts of things further west - empires of evil, lost cities made of solid gold, the edge of the world, the tombs of long-dead gods... the usual sort of stuff.


Kareth: A rugged stepped land interrupted with swaths of rolling prairie. Despite the famous academy at the heart of the kingdom, it is renowned for being an overly conservative land with little tolerance to new religions or unusual races. Darion does not share any of the ideals of his homeland.

Kareth has an Academy at its centre, where they teach all sorts of high arts and sciences. The two-bladed sword is the weapon of the nobility there. They are skilled engineers, but not steampunky - think Da Vinci rather than Jules Verne.

Baxter190
2008-09-28, 02:04 PM
OH! Can we actually have an edge of the world? That would be so cool!

So, to the extreme norht is the Eldrin lands, the east the Chito Dosert, the west, a great unexplored land, with an outpost barony, with one of the few conections to the fey outside of the Eladrin north, and, crossing ym fingers, the edge of the world. To the south, how about we let it be unexplored as well, maybe a swapland rightunder the explored areas, and who knows what under the swapmland?

Raz_Fox
2008-09-28, 02:14 PM
A quick dissertation on the completed Kathorian pantheon - a note, there are two types of gods. The Saints are generally respected as mighty heroes, while the Hallowed are only in the Pantheon at the Almighty's word.

The Saint Kor is prayed to by warriors, on the battlefield and off of it. His order of templars are known as the Brothers of Kor, a knightly order begun by his students after his death. Kor is an intellectual god as well, calling upon his followers to study and meditate, that they may have life out of battle. Kor's chosen color is red, and his symbol is often a broadsword before a red cloak.
The Saint Ioun was a teacher and seeker of knowledge, and was chosen by the Almighty to rule all knowledge imparted unto man. She is the god of magic, especially of its study, and of all knowledge given to mortals. She hates secrets, and her symbol is the book and the lamp. Her holy color is pure white.
The Saint Baldur was, according to legend, the most handsome Eladrin ever to walk the earth. Baldur sought to make beauty for the Almighty, and the painter and craftsman was made a god by the Almighty. Baldur is also the god of healing, for he finds injuries and deaths to be perversions of what the Almighty originally planned. Baldur's holy color is vibrant gold, and his symbols vary, though they are easily spotted by their wonderous make.
The Saint Hlal was a dragonborn bard who travelled the length of the world sharing her stories. She eventually settled down in the land of her birth, Kathor. Due to the fact that she had always told stories that eventually led to the Almighty, she was made into the goddess of storytelling and entertainment. Festivals and celebrations are her holy days, copper is her holy color, and her symbol is the scroll.
The Hallowed Razta'alin never let the rules of man get in the way of doing what was right, and was given godhood for myriad services to the ultimate good. The Rogue-Mage is also known as the Benign Meddler, and he tells his followers to follow only the rules of the Almighty. The rule-bound nation of Kathor naturally hates this. His holy color is blood red, like Kor, and his symbol is the fox.
The Hallowed Anubis is the god of death, and the Almighty's judge. When mortals eventually die, Anubis takes them and uses the Almighty's scales to decide their fate. Anubis can never take sides, except for choosing virtue against evil. Anubis has the holy color of purple, the color of mourning in Kathorian society, and has the holy symbol of the Jackal.
The Hallowed Valerian was a sea elf, who always cared for the earth while he lived in Kathor. He was eventually made into the god of nature, and all living things without free-will are his. He hates the despoiling of the wild, and it can sometimes become more important than virtue to him. Nevertheless, Valerian is kept in check by Razta'alin and Baldur. His holy color is the turquoise blue of his hair, and his symbol is the oak.
The Hallowed Njord was a wild Minotaur sailor who was enslaved during one of Kathor's wars. He eventually bought his freedom, and made an entire fleet of trading ships. He became the god of the sea and sailors, and many say a prayer to Njord before going on a voyage. His holy color is the dark blue of the sea, and his holy symbol is the rolling wave.
No-one but the gods themselves know the true nature of the Almighty, and the gods don't talk about HIM to mortals.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-28, 02:29 PM
Where's the barony, dude?

Um... indeterminately located? It's temperate, and quite isolated. It's a very small, but independent nation - the ruler is called a Baron because to be King of such a tiny place is a bit much. The eastern border is a primeval forest called the Midnight Wood. It's a very fey and weird place - eladrin and elves live there, but even they don't go too far in.

I see it as one of the most westerly outposts of civilisation on the continent. A road traces the edge of the Midnight Wood, running north and south, and is the barony's main contact with the larger nations to the north and east. The trek to the south is a long and difficult one, following an ancient roadway that runs through untamed lands, and leads to the mysterious lands of... the south. (Note my uselessness with names. :smalltongue:)

There are rumours of all sorts of things further west - empires of evil, lost cities made of solid gold, the edge of the world, the tombs of long-dead gods... the usual sort of stuff.



Kareth has an Academy at its centre, where they teach all sorts of high arts and sciences. The two-bladed sword is the weapon of the nobility there. They are skilled engineers, but not steampunky - think Da Vinci rather than Jules Verne.

Alright, alright, thinking...

I have it. The Barony of Cerrynt (or Allt, if you prefer) lies on the southern border of the former Kathorian lands, quite close to Kathor but between them lies Draline. It's so unimportant that it's been forgotten by the Kathorians while they fight the Tharis Confederacy (to the north of Kathor). To the far east, across the sea of Rhun, lies the Chito desert.
To the south lies the Fens of Thranc, and across the southern ocean lies Nov'Serra, an Australia-sized continent that is mostly desert and is (with apologies to Baxter) the home to a thriving Drow civilization, which I'll write up soon.
Kareth is one of the few remaining allies of Kathor, and it lies to the north-east, directly east of Kathor.

The continent we're on is fairly cresent-shaped, at least in my imagination. The Halcaraxe is a small chain of islands, connecting the civilized lands of the northern continent to the Urgoshic empire and then on to the hidden Eladrin realms, and the southern part of this continent is the Chito desert. The southern coast of the Continent (hereafter capitalized to refer to the continent we'll be starting on) is fairly unmapped (the Kathorians never crossed the Fens of Thranc), while the collapse of the Kathorian empire allows there to be room for any number of kingdoms (such as Stahlburg, right up north near the Tharis Confederacy).

To explain the fact we can be exploring to the west, let's say that perhaps on the other end of the Midnight Wood there's a shallow sea, across which is an entirely new continent. The Kathorian empire never crossed it, focusing more on the north.

Hang on, I've had another idea. The Urgoshic Empire was originally conquered by the Kathorians, but they drove the Kathorians back across the Helcaraxe. And the Nov'Serrans may be trying to conquer the lands south of the Fens of Thranc. And... :smallwink:

Edit: ...the reason that we've got so many Human characters is that we're adventuring in the former Kathorian empire.

Baxter190
2008-09-28, 02:56 PM
So the fens of thranc are the swamps I mentioned? Also, how about that sea be a really large lake, with the desrt to the east, the main continent to th west, and to the norht and south, ithmuses.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-28, 03:28 PM
So the fens of thranc are the swamps I mentioned? Also, how about that sea be a really large lake, with the desrt to the east, the main continent to th west, and to the norht and south, ithmuses.

What I'm suggesting is three continents. The Helcaraxe could be an isthmus, but I wanted the southern continent of Nov'Serra to be seperate. I viewed the three continents around the sea of Rhun as looking somewhat like a broken circle - the crescent-shaped western continent, the large northern/eastern continent and Nov'Serra.

Of course, I don't want to limit your creativity. Let's have Potato decide. :smallsmile:

Baxter190
2008-09-28, 03:52 PM
Well i want the west to be some unknown, landscape of the fantastic, with the edge of the world, ancient kingdoms of the gods before they ascended or something, and the realm of the fey, dragons and shadows. How aout Nav'Serra to the south, to the east the Chito Desert, the west the cresent continent, but instead and island, and being the most western known point, and in the middle is the mainland?

Raz_Fox
2008-09-28, 03:57 PM
Well i want the west to be some unknown, landscape of the fantastic, with the edge of the world, ancient kingdoms of the gods before they ascended or something, and the realm of the fey, dragons and shadows. How aout Nav'Serra to the south, to the east the Chito Desert, the west the cresent continent, but instead and island, and being the most western known point, and in the middle is the mainland?

:smallconfused: I'm not getting what you're saying. Could you try expressing it a bit more clearly?

Raistlin1040
2008-09-28, 03:58 PM
The Elven Lands
The Land
The island of Haldor-Kolyn is almost exclusivly Elven. Protected by magic barriers built by the gods, and watched over by the arcane leaders, the island is nearly impenetrable, and nobody gets in without the express permission of the King. While the Elven Gods are the only ones worshipped, and the population is nearly all Elven, there are Humans there, and by extent, Half-Elves. Eladrin are also seen, sparcely. The Eladrin and Half-Elves are treated as family, and the Humans as close friends. In fact, the current King of Haldor-Kolyn is a Half-Elf. His name is Anskar Himonous.

Anskar lives in his palace in the capital city of Lithium with his wife, the Eladrin Queen Antithe, and his young son, Prince Eldgrim. Lithium is an artistic city, every building built with beauty in mind, as well as functionality. In addition, Lithium has one of the best-trained local militaries in the world, a wide array of soldiers, wizards, and clerics available on a minute's notice.

Other major cities in Haldor-Kolyn are:

Argon, a University City, built for the sole purpose of various colleges for war and magic. Every King or Queen of Haldor-Kolyn has attended both a War College and a Magic College in Argon. Also, Argon hosts the most easily accessable teleportation in the island, due in part to the numerous students willing to cast the spell.

Bromine, a Trade City on the water, right by the barrier separating Haldor-Kolyn from the rest of the world. Any invading attack upon the island would have to come through Bromine, as they are the only city that regularly brings down their part of the barrier. Bromine is best known among the rest of the world for their agriculteral exports, but they are also have many types of weapons and armors in abundance.

Mercury, a Metropolis, it actually larger than Lithium. Most of the normal population lives in Mercury, and it is a strictly civilian city, the only military forces being composed of local volunteers. Mercury also enjoys the wealth of being the only city on the island entirely self-sufficiant. There is no need to trade with other contries or cities, as everything a person needs can be found in Mercury.

There are also various small towns and such, but those four cities are the only ones worthy of mention.

The terrain of Haldor-Kolyn is very much an oasis. The cities notwithstanding, streams, fruit trees, and grassy forest areas are all around the island. The very north of the island, above Argon, is colder than the rest of the island, and gets snow on the mountains during the colder months.

And their Dieties

Sounds like a plan. Also, I have a deep hatred for the 4e Alignment system, even more than the 3e system, so I will be using 3e for alignments.

The Gods
Adra, LG
Symbol: A longsword standing upright, the point touching the sun.
Portfolio: War, Chivalry, Horses
Gender: Male
Adra is a benign god. He seeks to unite the Elven people under one banner of happiness and freedom. Though a bit of an odd duck among Elven gods, he is generally liked by most elves, and is often prayed to in times of battle. Adra's temples are also not the norm among the Elves, large, elaborate marble structures bearing his insignia on the front. Adra preaches kindness and mercy above all, that a enemy that has surrendered is to be spared, and that, if able, one should always help those less fortunate than oneself.

Adra's clerics wear bright orange robes, never with hoods. The best among Adra's flock aren't just clerics, but also tacticians, generals, champions, or others that lead by example. A curiosity of the church is it's lack of a hierarchy. Every cleric, from the youngest apprentice, to the oldest bishop is no better than another. In the event that a decision must be reached, an avatar of the god appoints a temporary leader.


Dayrin, NG
Symbol: A halfmoon, outlined by a bow.
Portfolio: Archery, Healing, Rangers
Gender: Male
Dayrin is a easily pleased god. He dislikes death, and seeks to grant all life a way to escape it. Therefor, his plane is almost exactly the same as the regular world. His temples are small and usually out of the way. They are most often little huts with an altar, and a fountain of Holy Water. Though not nearly as well known as the other gods, Dayrin has his own following, and teaches that following that killing is the ultimate sin, and the only way to remedy it is to save a life to balance the injustice out.

Dayrin's clerics are nondescript, signifying their church affiliation with only a small badge on their clothes. At any time, there is only one leader of the church, a prophet of sorts, who deals with all the church dealings. However, the prophet encourages second-guessing, believing almost every opinion to have some merit, and most of his time spent not teaching or making decisions is spent talking to people, trying to understand each unique viewpoint.

Vaeri, CG
Symbol: A silver coin floating on the surface of a pond
Portfolio: Magic, Nature, Animals
Gender: Female
Vaeri is a nature goddess, pure and simple. She enjoys the Material Plane, and is often there, incognito. Her churches are one of the most beautiful things on the planet, elaborate structures built in the trees out of crystals. Vaeri is the most popular goddess among most elves, and many of them view her as a good friend, given her tendancy to communicate widely with avatars, though no one has ever met her in her true form. Animals are considered sacred to her, and it is said that the best among her followers attract them.

Her clerics wear light blue robes that shimmer in the moonlight. A leader would be counter-productive to Vaeri's natural style, and so there is no collective following. Rather, each disciple is encouraged to seek their own path. On the whole, Vaeri's followers are not adventurers, however they are by no means weak.

Shiron, LN
Symbol: A wood hammer
Portfolio: Law, Justice, Truth
Gender: Male

Shiron, brother of Adra, is a very...zealous god. He finds his brother too easy on evil, and the two have a rivalry. Shiron has no temples of his own, preferring to have his alters in courthouses and other establishments of the law, to grant moral guidance to all. Shiron hates lies, and lies spoken in his temple are ALWAYS punished. In his opinion, all evil can be traced back to lying and deceit, and he seeks to put a stop to it. Shiron preaches honor above all else, and evil must always be punished. It is a minor offense in the church to show mercy to anyone, and the best of his clerics have hearts of stone, seeing law and nothing else. Shiron is viewed as a bit of an extremist, and is regarded with a degree of waryness by most.

Shiron's clerics wear white robes with hoods. Legend has that the first cleric of Shiron was a judge who couldn't decide on a proper punishment, so it's a tradition for the leader of the church to be affiliated with the local law inforcement. Should one not be available, a political leader who worships Shiron is given the local position.

Sambr, TN
Symbol: A mask
Portfolio: Sensuality, Secrets, Manipulation
Gender: Female
Sambr is one of the more complicated goddesses around. She teached looking out for oneself as the number one priority, and loves secrets of all kinds. However, she is also a love goddess, explaining that the only way to not have to worry about yourself is to worry more about someone else. As well, she also teaches the art of manipulation, maintaining that a good lie and some sweet words are enough to overcome nearly any obstacle. Sambr's temples are often the gossip centers of a city, and are usually shady-looking buildings, while the inside is beautiful and clean.

Sambr's clerics wear rose-red robes. The leader of her faith is the cleric of hers that is the smartest. The most common way of finding this out is a riddling contest, the only cleric never stumped becomes the leader for life. Interestingly, only one man has ever become the Archcleric in the written history of the faith. Another odd fact is that every cleric who attains the rank of Active Cleric has gotten married before death, often suspected to be Sambr doing her clerics the favor of causing them to fall in love.

Keene, CN
Symbol: A purple top hat, decorated with stars
Portfolio: Everything, Nothing
Gender: Female
Keene is completely insane. Dressed in a tight purple tuxedo and a ornate purple top-hat, she has absolutly no concept of common sense. And yet, something about her insanity is reasonable, artistic even. A common theory is that she was some sort of painter who was driven mad by her creations, and then wandered the planes until her death. Then, Dayrin, hoping to make her his own, raised her as a goddess. Even though she turned him down, the two remain close friends. Keene's temples are often white buildings, with dark Expressionist paintings littering the insides.

Keene's clerics wear purple robes, and usually wear hats as well, in her honor. Though the vast majority of her supporters aren't nearly as mad as she is, there is something to be said for her world views. Most of her clerics are creative souls, musicians, artists, writers, driven together by a desire to have their minds understood by someone. Keene is also the only known Elven Goddess to make regular appearances on the Material Plane in her true form, likely because she doesn't fully understand her status as one of the masters of the universe. Keene maintains a good relationship with Sambr as well as Dayrin, and it is certainly not unknown for the priests of the faith to intermingle with the priests of the other two. Obviously, there is no real leader of Keene's church.

Jelacia, LE
Symbol: A sword surrounded by fire
Portfolio: War, Fire, Evil
Gender: Female
Jelacia is one of the most reviled among the Elven Dieties. Evil and Lawful, she stands for everythin the Elves hate. However, to each their own, and some elves follow her out of a sense of rebellion. She teaches the joys of advancing one's position in life through evil and trickery, but never being caught. Her temples are secluded, and more often than not, underground.

Jelacia's clerics wear dark black robes with hoods, but only when attending church meetings. They are most often politicians, or other corrupt leaders by day, and the equivilent of cultists by night. The leader of the church is whoever kills the previous leader without being caught. Obviously, this means that all but a select few are completely oblivious to who their mortal leader is.

Faust, CE
Symbol: A gravestone
Portfolio: Death, Undeath
Gender: Male
Faust is an half-undead elf, similar to a zombie, but retaining all his sentience, and his body is not decomposed, except for a few select areas. His churches are in graveyards, usually only enterable by digging up a grave. He teaches nihilism, and advocates for the destruction of all things.

His clerics mutilate themselves to model their appearance after his, and are usually easy to spot. Their leader is usually one who has willingly submitted to undeath, usually a lich or a willing vampire.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-28, 04:17 PM
Y'know, Haldor-Kelyn seems like the rising star of civilization, now that Kathor has fallen. All the north-western nations probably have it as their main source of trade, and all Kathor can do is watch.

...Now I want to see a war between Haldor-Kelyn and Kathor before the campaign's end.

Baxter190
2008-09-28, 04:20 PM
-------------------------------------??????????????????------------------
-----------------------------------???????????????????????---------------
My Epic Map----------------------?????????????????????????---------------
???-----------------------------????????????????????????????--------------
???---------------------------000000000000000000000000000-------------
???-------------------------000000000000000000000000000000-----------
???-----------------0------00--0000000000000000000000000000???????????
???----0000000-----00----000000000000000---00000000000000????????????
???---0000000000--0000000000000000000------0000000000----????????????
???-----0000000000000000000000000--------0000000000000---????????????
???-------0000000000000000000000000000---000000000000----????????????
???---x---00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000---???????????
???-------000000000---000000000000000000000010000000000000??????????
???------000000000000000000000000000000000000000000------???????????
???---------0000------000--------0000000000000000000-------???????????
???----------------------00-----------0000000------0000000000??????????
???-----------------------0--------------000------------0000000?????????
???-----0--------0------------------------------------------000??????????
???----00--------00---------00---------------------------------??????????
???--00000------00000---------------------------------------------???????
???-0000000000000000---------------00-0---------------------------------
???---0000000000000---------------00--00000000-------------------------
???---------000------------00000000000000000000-0000------------------
???----------------------000000000--0000000000--000000-----------------
???------------------------0000000000000000000-000000------------------
???-----------------------00000000000000000000--0000000---------------
???-------------------------0000000000000000000-0000000----------------
???----------------------------------000000000000000000-----------------
???----------------------------------------------0000---------------------
???-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Baxter190
2008-09-28, 04:22 PM
My epic map
the western ??? means the unexplored areas. The eastern ??? means the chito desert. The northern ??? means the Eladrin area, which no one goes to out of fear of the Eladrinmessing them up.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-28, 04:23 PM
I'm in a hurry, but I must say I don't like that idea. Tell you more in an hour or so.

potatocubed
2008-09-28, 04:26 PM
I had sketched a map, but now I find it's wrong. :smalltongue:

The way I currently see the section of the campaign world we're going to be starting in is this. You have Kathor, a large nation (about the size of Texas?), surrounded by fragmentary offshoots who have taken advantage of its war with the other place (whose name escapes me) to establish their independence. These vary in size along the same lines as European countries.

East of Kathor is a sea. Or possibly a huge lake.

South of Kathor is the Midnight Wood, which covers an area of land only slightly less than Kathor itself. As it extends southward and eastward it gets close to the equator and becomes a rainforest jungle.

Northwest of Kathor is a smallish mountain range. Most of the country that they are perenially at war with (also Texas-sized) is shielded by those mountains, but there is a section of open border that runs all the way to the coast in the east. This gets pushed back and forth depending on the state of the interminable war.

If you follow the western edge of the Midnight Wood south out of Kathor, you pass through one or two of the fragment kingdoms and then you reach the barony. It's something of a frontier. East is the wood. To the north, the land is wild and hilly until you reach the mountain range I mentioned earlier. Crazy hermits, brave colonists, and other wilderness types keep trying to push civilisation west through that area but it's such terrible land the villages usually can't sustain themselves.

South of the barony is the big swamp, also with a name I can't recall. The swamp blends with the Midnight Wood where they meet to create a sucking fen of Doom With a Capital D that combines the worst parts of both. No one goes there, ever.

A trail does lead through the swamp, but it's a long and difficult one, and stories say it only gets harder once you're through the swamp and into the mysterious lands of the south. Occasionally travellers make it through the swamp coming from the south, dark-skinned men and women with strange languages and customs. They say the land curves towards the east, leading to a vast desert populated by dangerous monsters and black-skinned elves

To the west, a wide corridor of unexplored lands extends further than anyone knows. Bounded to the north by the mountains and to the south by the swamp and the great river that runs from it, no one knows how far the land goes or what it contains.

---

The larger arrangement of continents doesn't need to be fleshed out just yet - there's an island of elves, a fundamentalist dwarf empire somewhere to the north, several eladrin holy sites (to do with the elder fey) scattered around... their precise locations aren't really important to start with.

Here is the sketchiest sketch map you've ever seen. Fear my mad Paint skillz:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/potatocubed/UnknownMap-1.jpg

The orange bit is Kalthor. The red bit is the other kingdom. Grey is mountains, purple is swamp, yellowish is desert and green is the Midnight Wood. The black dot is the barony. The black lines are the important bits of coastline. The continent should extend west for an arbitrary distance. Beyond the sea to the east... who knows?

EDIT:

Y'know, Haldor-Kelyn seems like the rising star of civilization, now that Kathor has fallen. All the north-western nations probably have it as their main source of trade, and all Kathor can do is watch.

I like. I'd be inclined to place Haldor-Kelyn off the coast of my sketchy map, to the east.

As a general thought, I'm against the idea of the eladrin and the fey being confined to the north. Perhaps that's the last bastion of their ancient strength (as opposed to the newer elven strength of Haldor-Kelyn), but they're probably to be found anywhere old and wild enough. Perhaps the northern eladrin look down on their 'countrified' relatives in other parts of the world.

This also feeds into 'what exactly is the difference between elves and eladrin anyway?' Perhaps in this world the eladrin are ancient, fey creatures, strong in magic and with a somewhat alien mindset. The elves are (relatively) modern offshoots of the eladrin line, more pragmatic and more comprehensible. The drow are what happens when elves adjust to desert life. (At last, a plausible reason why drow have black skin...) Their ability to create darkness is a great aid in the noonday sun. They are seen as amoral, but they are great traders. Their ships ply the waters of Rhul, trading in anything that will turn a profit.

Raistlin1040
2008-09-28, 04:58 PM
Haldor-Kolyn guys. Kolyn. With an o.

Baxter190
2008-09-28, 05:04 PM
I like your idea of the drow, its basically the same as my own. The fey in the north are in the ancestral homelands, but yeah there are eladrin elsewhere, but only in places where the fey are poweful, such as the forest, where they honor the fey spirits of the trees and animals, or deep in the swamp, where they honor the spirits of the swamp, the trees and the fey guardians of death. The Eladrin hnor all fey spirit, so yeah, they're other places than the north, but they stick to places of spiritual importance. How about the elves where orginally Eladrin, but because they were more into crafting and war than the Eladrin, they left and bacame the Elves that we know now. Eight of them eventually came unto humans, and were revered as gods for their magic and skils, and when the humans met the dwarves, their religion intermized, becoming what is now the common human religion. The drow are basically the Elves that ended up in the desert and adapted. However, they are much more morally flexable, and are like humans in the adaptablity and flexability.

ixious
2008-09-28, 05:31 PM
someone please for the love of god tell me i am not the only extremely perverted person here....we are going to need to do some serious terraforming because I do not know if I can play on a map that reminds me of the "awkward" part of my anatomy/physiology coloring book :smalltongue:

Baxter190
2008-09-28, 05:37 PM
lol, but yeah, we do have to change it. And raz, what don't you like about my epic map? Also, can Anyone spot my little secret in it?

ixious
2008-09-28, 05:59 PM
dude, sorry, but all i see is a wang, a wang filled with people who all follow the far overcomplicated religions and astrologies we are currently constructing...If i got my A&P book out I might be able to identify the organs you colored in too...

Baxter190
2008-09-28, 06:18 PM
Potatocubed, how about this. The question marks on my map is the Eladrin main area. Belowe that for about two lines is the dwarven mountain chain, ruled by the empire. Below the is the Karthean empire and its fragements. The west is that unexplored area you mentioned. The east ??? is the Chito desert, and no one knows whats behind that. The southern continent is the drow desert, and the cresent thing, I can't remember right now. the western main part of the continent are various areas, containing the wood and swamps. The northern peninsula is the the main Elven city is, and the x on the map is the island with the new elven city. Kay?

Raz_Fox
2008-09-28, 07:46 PM
I had sketched a map, but now I find it's wrong. :smalltongue:

The way I currently see the section of the campaign world we're going to be starting in is this. You have Kathor, a large nation (about the size of Texas?), surrounded by fragmentary offshoots who have taken advantage of its war with the other place (whose name escapes me) to establish their independence. These vary in size along the same lines as European countries.

East of Kathor is a sea. Or possibly a huge lake.

South of Kathor is the Midnight Wood, which covers an area of land only slightly less than Kathor itself. As it extends southward and eastward it gets close to the equator and becomes a rainforest jungle.

Northwest of Kathor is a smallish mountain range. Most of the country that they are perenially at war with (also Texas-sized) is shielded by those mountains, but there is a section of open border that runs all the way to the coast in the east. This gets pushed back and forth depending on the state of the interminable war.

If you follow the western edge of the Midnight Wood south out of Kathor, you pass through one or two of the fragment kingdoms and then you reach the barony. It's something of a frontier. East is the wood. To the north, the land is wild and hilly until you reach the mountain range I mentioned earlier. Crazy hermits, brave colonists, and other wilderness types keep trying to push civilisation west through that area but it's such terrible land the villages usually can't sustain themselves.

South of the barony is the big swamp, also with a name I can't recall. The swamp blends with the Midnight Wood where they meet to create a sucking fen of Doom With a Capital D that combines the worst parts of both. No one goes there, ever.

A trail does lead through the swamp, but it's a long and difficult one, and stories say it only gets harder once you're through the swamp and into the mysterious lands of the south. Occasionally travellers make it through the swamp coming from the south, dark-skinned men and women with strange languages and customs. They say the land curves towards the east, leading to a vast desert populated by dangerous monsters and black-skinned elves

To the west, a wide corridor of unexplored lands extends further than anyone knows. Bounded to the north by the mountains and to the south by the swamp and the great river that runs from it, no one knows how far the land goes or what it contains.

---

The larger arrangement of continents doesn't need to be fleshed out just yet - there's an island of elves, a fundamentalist dwarf empire somewhere to the north, several eladrin holy sites (to do with the elder fey) scattered around... their precise locations aren't really important to start with.

Here is the sketchiest sketch map you've ever seen. Fear my mad Paint skillz:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/potatocubed/UnknownMap-1.jpg

The orange bit is Kalthor. The red bit is the other kingdom. Grey is mountains, purple is swamp, yellowish is desert and green is the Midnight Wood. The black dot is the barony. The black lines are the important bits of coastline. The continent should extend west for an arbitrary distance. Beyond the sea to the east... who knows?

EDIT:


I like. I'd be inclined to place Haldor-Kelyn off the coast of my sketchy map, to the east.

As a general thought, I'm against the idea of the eladrin and the fey being confined to the north. Perhaps that's the last bastion of their ancient strength (as opposed to the newer elven strength of Haldor-Kelyn), but they're probably to be found anywhere old and wild enough. Perhaps the northern eladrin look down on their 'countrified' relatives in other parts of the world.

This also feeds into 'what exactly is the difference between elves and eladrin anyway?' Perhaps in this world the eladrin are ancient, fey creatures, strong in magic and with a somewhat alien mindset. The elves are (relatively) modern offshoots of the eladrin line, more pragmatic and more comprehensible. The drow are what happens when elves adjust to desert life. (At last, a plausible reason why drow have black skin...) Their ability to create darkness is a great aid in the noonday sun. They are seen as amoral, but they are great traders. Their ships ply the waters of Rhul, trading in anything that will turn a profit.

...How do I put this?

Sod it all, I bloody love you now.

This is much better than the sketches I've been making of the world. The smaller scale is better for initial gaming than the macro-scale I was thinking on.

I think Kareth is on the coast south of Kathor. Stahlburg is south of the Tharis Confederacy, and wild Draline ruled by the Dragonborn is south of that. Oh, and the swamp is called the Fens of Thranc, the sea the Sea of RHUN. :smallwink:

Baxter190
2008-09-28, 08:01 PM
On faith, fey, and gods-
How about this, we have the Eledrin worshipping the fey. Eventually, for some reason, the elves and Eladrin split. However, since they were still basically Eladrin at that point, they still worshipped fey. Chief amoung the fey they worshipped was the fey of the great clock, that had been built two thousand years ago before the split, and the fey of a shield of a great Eladrin hero. Fey in this world aren't just nature spirits, but are the spirits of everything, so this coudl work. Eventually, the elves stopped worshipping all but two, the clock and the shield fey. Becuase of their worship, the became gods like Dark one from Oots, meaning they were on par with the Eldar Fey, the spirits of the seasons and the Storm Fey.

At least eight of the elves, extremely powerful in magic and skilled in many arts, went out into the world and came unto men, who they appeared to as gods.se Elves were probably not the most humble, and didn't convince the humans other wise. Like the Fey of the shield and clock, the became like gods after the death of the mortal bodies. However, eventually, the humans met the Dwarves, and they became followers of one almighty god, and the eight gods were weakened by their loss of followers, but were still prayed to, and became the modern saints.

The Drow, being Elves that eventually ended up in the desert, worship the Moon Fey most of all, which is actually the Winter Fey. They also worship the fey of rivers, wells and such, as the live in the desert and thus are extremely grateful for water.

The Dwarves, were made by the Spring Fey, the an earth dragon, and worship him as an almighty, but view him as a dwarf. Becuase they view only one god, their xenophobic and pious status, and the positioning next to Eleadrinlands, they often lead crusades against the "Infidels"
Thats all i got right now.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-28, 08:03 PM
lol, but yeah, we do have to change it. And raz, what don't you like about my epic map? Also, can Anyone spot my little secret in it?

You're focusing on the north continent far too much - the western continent is where we're going to be playing. I think you've succumbed to the natural desire to focus on the continent of your character - I'm struggling to control it, as well.

And now, Potato's map is even better. I'd play on that any day.

Baxter190
2008-09-28, 08:06 PM
Yeah, I did give in, but only the ??? to north is where the Eladrin, live. how about I split the northern continent from the western part, make that the part where we're at, move it down, and add on his part of the map? Also, by western continent, do you mean the cresent thing?

Raz_Fox
2008-09-28, 08:09 PM
On faith, fey, and gods-
How about this, we have the Eledrin worshipping the fey. Eventually, for some reason, the elves and Eladrin split. However, since they were still basically Eladrin at that point, they still worshipped fey. Chief amoung the fey they worshipped was the fey of the great clock, that had been built two thousand years ago before the split, and the fey of a shield of a great Eladrin hero. Fey in this world aren't just nature spirits, but are the spirits of everything, so this coudl work. Eventually, the elves stopped worshipping all but two, the clock and the shield fey. Becuase of their worship, the became gods like Dark one from Oots, meaning they were on par with the Eldar Fey, the spirits of the seasons and the Storm Fey. At least eight of the elves, extremely powerful in magic and skilled in many arts, went out into the world and came unto men, who they appeared to as gods.se Elves were probably not the most humble, and didn't convince the humans other wise. Like the Fey of the shield and clock, the became like gods after the death of the mortal bodies. However, eventually, the humans met the Dwarves, and they became followers of one almighty god, and the eight gods were weakened by their loss of followers, but were still prayed to, and became the modern saints. The Drow, being Elves that eventually ended up in the desert, worship the Moon Fey most of all, which is actually the Winter Fey. They also worship the fey of rivers, wells and such, as the live in the desert and thus are extremely grateful for water. The Dwarves, were made by the Spring Fey, the an earth dragon, and worship him as an almighty, but view him as a dwarf. Becuase they view only one god, their xenophobic and pious status, and the positioning next to Eleadrinlands, they often lead crusades against the "Infidels"
Thats all i got right now.

Again, I really don't like the elf superiority thing going on here. Doesn't anybody remember I began work on the Kathorian pantheon before Raistlin posted his? :smallamused: Again, I'm going to press my "Proto-races" theory.

I'm thinking that the Kathorian "Almighty" is potentially the most powerful god, but he won't let himself intervene in the world until the time is right and he becomes the Dragonslayer.
The fey can't percieve the Almighty, so they believe they are the most powerful things in this world of fragile mortals. And for the moment, they are correct.
The eight gods are - well, I can't decide what the Eight are. Raistlin, you want to help me on this?
The Dwarves view the Kathorian "Almighty" as a god of vengance and wrath, like Old Testament Yahweh. They go on crusades to defeat those that have wronged them, and they never forget a grudge. (Kudos if you recognize the reference.)
And I really want to start work on Asmodeus, the Dragon Below. Could I have Potato's go-ahead on making Asmodeus into a Dragon? :smallsmile:

Even though I'm savaging your thelogy, I really like the Drow worship of the Moon Fey. You could make the Moon Fey their own, unique type of desert fey.

Raistlin1040
2008-09-28, 08:13 PM
If I have time, sure. I've got stuff to do tonight, but if I can finish it up, yeah, I'll help.

ixious
2008-09-28, 08:23 PM
An Essay and Prologue by Sylis Antara

As any peasant on the streets know, we have 8 months of 20 days, the time it takes for the seasons to come full circle. The names of these months correspond to the 8 members of a pantheon commonly accepted. This way of measuring time was devised to assist in the timing of crops and festivals, Maise is always planted on the first of Vaerisi and harvested during the month of Jelicorio. The new year is always the First of Adra, and frost is almost always on the ground. Theologians and public figures have worked hard to ingrain this in even the simplest of people, meaningless names attributed to 8 gods that happen to be accepted, but there is no logic to the nomenclature. Why is the first month Adra, why not Keena? Is the Lord Adra strongest during that time of the year? If that is the case, then two completely opposed gods, Adra and Faust, are at their peak within a 40 day span, we would expect to see amazing celestial battles during this time, not fireworks and drunken debauchery, as New Year so often is. The innate failure is assigning supernatural names to natural phenomena. Jelacia does not draw the sun closer making this world warmer during his month, that is simply due to the relative location of our planet with our closest star. Stars govern our world in physical and testable ways. Solaris, the daystar is the reason our planet is habitable, has agriculture, and has the changing of the seasons. Lunestis, the nightking, and possibly a dead star, grants the ebbs and flows of tides, and spares us from complete dark while our planet rotates. But what of the “smaller” stars, those that may be hundreds of times larger than daystar, but so far we can barely see them unaided? Do they govern our world as well? It is my belief and my thesis that indeed these bodies do govern our world in physical and testable ways. Their unseen “gravity” on this world affects us in many ways, in the ways we act, interact, and live.

Through my years studying the nightstars, I have ascertained that groups of stars shape a period of time when they are, in respect to our planet,, most visible in the night sky. For the sake of this prospectus I will continue as if we are working in the northern hemisphere, where it is winter in Adra and summer in Jelacia. From these groups of stars, 10 act most prominently and thus are worth discussion. Each body of stars has carried a consistent part of a greater story and embodies the effect it has on it's period. The story is called


“The Cycle of Madness” A review of the Zodiac

Delbar (Faust 17 to Adra 12)
“Flash in the Pan”
Symbol: A Starburst

Delbar was a peasant raised to be king of a long forgotten kingdom by the blessing of a fey king. He lived for only 16 months after taking the throne, but revolutionized the kingdom. Those born under this symbol are destined to do great things, but must be wary of getting involved in anything long-term. Seek out chances to shine, and never become settled..

Bigilen (Adra 13 to Dayrina 8)
“The Trickster”
Symbol: A Herring

Bigilen caused the fall of Delbar. Being young and impressionable, Delbar accepted Bigilen as a trusted aid. Bigilin wanted the throne for himself, so he had the young king sign paperwork “in case something happened to his Majesty” and offered him advice that led to his death. Those born under this sign are very charismatic, but beware falling into a role of advisor, as your own interests have a way of clouding your intentions. Seek Humility, by seeing yourself as part of a greater society you will avoid the pitfalls of your sign.

Lenna (Dayrina 9 to Vaerisi 4)
“Spiraling Doom”
Symbol: A Black Rat

In the absence of a king, the kingdom degraded. The minds and souls of the people were purely on necessity. The kingdom became more like a colony of rats than that of people, fighting for food, and unaware of the dangers just outside their walls. Those born under this sign have a strong, almost blinding, desire for simplicity. Seek Industry, constantly pursuing the more difficult path, because if you ever give in you will be as worthless as a rat.

Bios (Vaerisi 5 to Vaerisi 20)
“The Sardonic Knight”
Symbol: Black Cavalier Head
With a nation overcome by it's own desire to simply survive, it only took Bios and a small legion of men to destroy the former kingdom and enslave the peasants. Instead of returning the servants, he made them tools of his enjoyment, spending 16 years torturing each and every survivor until none over the age of 16 remained. Those born under this sign can expect their lives to be full of hard times, adversity, and at times a lack of hope. Seek Compassion, let the events of your life constantly teach you how to comfort others, it is the only way you will find happiness.

Derk (Shiron 1 to Shiron 16)
“The Void” (was Ihbar)
Symbol: A Black Circle
The Knight left, taking the children with him. They were raised off what they learned from the soldiers on an endless journey to the Knight's nation. Those born under this sign are both blessed and cursed. Opportunity will be few and far between in your life, but it is this void, the hunger, that will make anything you do that much better. Your passion, your hunger for life is contagious. Find those born under Lenna and help them take advantage of any chance given.

Infernus (Shiron 17 to Sambr 12)
“Flamebearer”
Symbol: A Torch with a skull at the pinnacle
Years pass, and one boy among the servants rebels, lighting fire to the tents of their captors and killing any man who tried to catch them. He led the survivors out of the encampment, and into the woods by the torches fueled with the flesh of his former captors. Those born under this sign are natural born leaders, cutthroat, and unbound by standards and custom. The fire that burns in your heart can lead those trapped in their day to day lives to freedom, but be wary, those you burn may come back with a vengeance.

Diasoma (Sambre 13 to Keene 8)
“Bringer of Light”
Symbol: Tree and Sun
Wandering in the woods, the now-free prisoners are found by a fey named Diasoma. Diasoma taught them how to form the woods into a city, along with secrets on how to live as one with nature. Those born under this sign have an affinity to nature and harmony. You are a strong mediator, and a gentle friend, but remember, not everything can be solved with compromise.

Kratos (Keene 9 to Jelesorio 4)
“The Bloodstained Baron”
Symbol: Bloody Sword
After 10 summers, The Knight, nearly dead from the wounds Infernus gave him, commanded his son, Kratos, and the remains of his men to the fledgling town Infernus founded,, burning and destroying 10 times as much as Infernus had done to them. The epitome of revenge, Kratos led the attack all the way into the Feywild, swearing to destroy anyone that even assisted the refugees. Those born under this sign are ferocious, not quick to forget, and easily are swayed by causes. Be wary of revenge, as you may not know where to stop.

Oblivio (Jelesorio 5 to Jelesorio 20)
“Bringer of Darkness” (was Ulban)
Symbol: Sickle
Having demolished the gates into the Feywild, Oblivio, a dark fey, let Kratos to infect the fey kingdom of Cendreiane with a taint of evil, causing fey to go mad and begin destroying their own forest. Those born under this sign are opportunistic, and often have a taint of madness about them. Though not innately evil, those under this sign must watch themselves carefully, and surround themselves with stable friends.

Alva (Faust 1 to 16)
“The Fallen Elfking” (was Zhudun)
Symbol: Crown of Branches with no leaves on them
Alva, King of Cendreiane, saw his kingdom crumbling, his one heir, Diasoma, dead, and decided to imbue his power and knowledge into a boy from the material plane, exalt him as leader of his nation, and hope that he, with the knowledge of the Fey, would not fall to destruction as Infernus' city had That boy's name was Delbar. Those born under this sign are enablers, they encourage, often having great wisdom for someone of their age, but the problem is they lack foresight. All right turns lead in a circle, and unless you surround yourself with friends and family, your own wisdom will lead to yours, and anyone who follows you, destruction.



@all

as for the seasonal fey and such, i will leave that up to someone else, i really do need to read what others have written and get to my own sheet

Raz_Fox
2008-09-28, 08:54 PM
How dare you, heretic Sylis?
You should be aware that the use of this heathen calandar is forbidden in all lands claimed by Kathor. The true calandar is as follows:

Kor
Baldur
Valerian
Ioun
Hlal
Razta'alin
Njord
Anubis

Kathorian soldiers will be coming to confiscate all heritical materials and writings. :smallannoyed:

ixious
2008-09-28, 08:57 PM
LOL is that a request to ninja-edit those names in in place of the ones I have?

8 to 8 works fine

potatocubed
2008-09-29, 05:35 AM
On the subject of wangs: add another peninsula below and parallel to the first one. Now it resembles a duck. :smalltongue:

On the subject of religion: here's a suggested compromise. The eladrin worship the elder fey, the most powerful of the nature spirits. The elves found the fey too... distant from their concerns, and found, or invented, the eight gods as more understandable divinities.

Meanwhile, the dwarves developed their own monolithic, monotheistic religion.

As human civilisation arose in the shadow of the elves and dwarves, they adopted the religious traditions of the elder races - either the eight gods or the one god - depending on which had more influence. They worship the same deities through a 'human lens'. Some even pay homage to the elder fey, although no human lens can resolve beings like that - the fey worshippers are often mad. (A similar thing might be occurring with the star things. Or it might not.)

Raz_Fox
2008-09-29, 06:13 AM
What I'm trying to say is that human culture in this world didn't come after the ancient elves and dwarves like in every other fantasy world. There were ancient Eladrin cultures and ancient Human cultures as well.

That acceptable, Potato?

Edit: Let me see if I can explain it more clearly:
There are three main religions: Worship of the Fey, The Eight Gods, and the Kathorian religion.
The dwarvish religion is the adaption - they heard about the Kathorian Almighty and decided that he wouldn't let them suffer in slavery any longer.

And all three religions are to some extent true. I'd really like to know more about the Eight and how they exist before I finish up my work on the Unknown World's theology.

Oh, and Drow and Tharis fluff coming up today. :smallwink:

potatocubed
2008-09-29, 07:08 AM
Ah, I see.

In that case, humans will have their own set of entirely human gods - their culture and the religion associated with it would have formed independently of dwarven and elven religions. Cases like Kathor, where a foreign religion has subsumed whatever the local beliefs once were, would be rare.

Of course, fey worship would persist everywhere. Although you have to tolerate a mad shaman or two and a god who might turn all the children under ten in the village to stone for mysterious reasons of his own, you have a god who can be incited to physically show up and fight off bandits or other threats. Swings and roundabouts.

As an aside, I'm generally against worldwide cultural homogeneity. Different human cultures will have different gods to go with their different customs, although those gods might just be aspects of deities you're already familiar with. Likewise, not all dwarves are Almighty-followers. Possibly all the ones in the north are, but you may find a different dwarven civilisation with a different religion elsewhere. Ditto for elves, although maybe not eladrin.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-29, 07:14 AM
Ah, I see.

In that case, humans will have their own set of entirely human gods - their culture and the religion associated with it would have formed independently of dwarven and elven religions. Cases like Kathor, where a foreign religion has subsumed whatever the local beliefs once were, would be rare.

Of course, fey worship would persist everywhere. Although you have to tolerate a mad shaman or two and a god who might turn all the children under ten in the village to stone for mysterious reasons of his own, you have a god who can be incited to physically show up and fight off bandits or other threats. Swings and roundabouts.

As an aside, I'm generally against worldwide cultural homogeneity. Different human cultures will have different gods to go with their different customs, although those gods might just be aspects of deities you're already familiar with. Likewise, not all dwarves are Almighty-followers. Possibly all the ones in the north are, but you may find a different dwarven civilisation with a different religion elsewhere. Ditto for elves, although maybe not eladrin.

EXACTLY! :smallbiggrin:

The reason the Kathorian religion is so wide-spread in this area of the world is because of the conversion work the Kathorian missionaries did while the Empire was still standing. The Kathorian religion hasn't died with the fall of Kathor. It now flourishes alongside fey worship even beyond the borders of the former Kathorian Empire.

And I'm wondering if the Kathorian gods ever manifest in the world. It seems to go against the Catholic/Jewish theme I'm going with, but I like the idea of one or two acting as the Almighty's messengers.

I'm against the worldwide homogeneity. But I'm viewing the Kathorian religion like Post-Rome christianity: the last proud remmnants of Kathor follow it, and missionaries take it out into the former Kathorian empire - and perhaps beyond.

Oh, and I never intended to have the Kathorian religion mirroring the Elvish one. It just sorta happened, and I didn't notice until after I had posted it.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-29, 08:17 AM
I was contemplating Kathor over breakfast, and I want to make a last-minute adjustment to the fluff.

Gondor was the original inspiration for Kathor, and I think I've cleaved too tightly to it. So I want to add in some Celtic flavor - Welsh, to be precise. The Lord of Kathor is more like the High King, and I'm downgrading the technology level to chainmail and swords. Kareth is the ambitious, forward-looking nation while Kathor holds tight to tradition more than laws.

These celtic warriors conquered a nation, then lost it. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm moving Kathor more towards Rohan than Gondor. Kathor still has its black-and-silver clad warriors, its redcloaked Brothers of Kor, its crazy bards. But its great cities are more like fortresses, made to protect the tribes. Its villages are small, and often have strong ties to one city or another. The cities still have libraries and places of culture, but they are oases of culture in wild Kathor. The original Kathorian tribes were united in conquest and now only exist in the naming conventions of Kathor, ac Telecontar and mab Mathonwy being examples of Kathorian family names. To reiterate: there is enough civilization for the Kathorians to have controlled a great empire, but the conquest was mostly through zeal and the skill of the elite Kathorian warriors. They couldn't control it, and they have lost some of the culture they assimilated from the people around them, focusing on their own heritage and culture.

Y'know, now I'm thinking about ruined Kathorian fortresses dotting the landscape of the former empire, broken by rebellion and magic then forgotten. I may have invented more dungeons for Potato to send us through. :smalleek:

Edit: Now that I think about it, perhaps Thieran's flamboyant trousers come from Nov'Serra. The red silk doesn't seem to fit Kathor now, and it fits Thieran's eccentric nature to wear exotic silk.

Britter
2008-09-29, 08:50 AM
Wow...you all are some hard working world builders...I hope I can hack it here :)

I'm going to try to focus on my little contribution, and make it fit as best as I can into this endeavour.

I envisioned Stahlberg as almost the counterpoint to a traditional D and D Elven city. Instead of pristine woods, you have well crafted stone buildings and cultivated fields. Instead of rangers and druids, you have pike squares and talented phyisicians. Instead of communing with nature, you have a almost Lutheran style of liturgical worship of two deities that are, unlike most dieties in the world, almost more methaphorical then actual.

Stahlberg is going to be a neutral city-state. Through careful political maunvering and powerful military force, Stahlberg has gained a position very similar to the Swiss. The various nations and kingdoms that surround it would rather not lose acsess to it's mercanaries and craftsmen, and so the city is allowed to remain independent.

It is also a true center of enlightenment, in the scientific sense. I see if as a place where the mechanics of crafting have been evelated to new levels, where clockwork and alcehmical devices and weapons are constantly being developed, and where research into everything from the nature of the gods to astrology to any other study you can name is being conducted.

The elves of Stahlberg are not particularly religious in one sense, and are very religious in another. Their worship of the Smith and the Warden is very ritualistic, and they could be described as "Sunday Christians" in the sense that everyone attends services when they can and performs the approriate liturgy and rituals. On the other hand, they worship two very vague gods, and in the context of the cosmology we are working on, the dualistic deity they worship might be an aspect of the Kathorian God, a fey spirit or two, a minor deity of some kind, or maybe just concepts. Sthalberg theologians debate the true nature of the Smith and the Warden, and no real decisive answer has been reached.

Stahlberg is placed in a mineral and resource rich part of the world, near mountains, in an area that is easily defended. There are several smaller towns or cities within the boundaries of the nation, with the main capital being Stahlberg itself. It is located somewhere central enough that most of the civilized nations would have had contact with it at some point, and Stahlberg mercanaries would be a fairly common sight.

Stahlbergs neighbors respect it's military power. It's standing army is not necessarily larger then that of the nearby nations, but it is very well trained and disciplined. Additionaly, the various Stahlberg Mercanaries that are scattered throughout the world can be recalled if any nation were to attack Stahberg. Every nation respects the military might of the small elven nation and would rather not interfere with the excellent mercanary services that are offered by the elves.

Thats enough for now, from me anyway. Let me know if you guys have any issues with this or ideas to help flesh it out. I am really shooting for DaVinci meets 1600's Switzerland, so hopefully I am close.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-29, 09:15 AM
Sweet city-state, Britter!

I've had a few more ideas on Kathorian religion, so I'm going to take a deep breath and introduce Asmodeus into this:

The Kathorian religion places all blame on evil on the Dragon Below, Asmodeus. Asmodeus, in Kathorian art, is a great seven-horned dragon with golden scales. One side of his great head is breath-takingly beautiful, while the other is brutally scarred and burned, and that side lacks an eye. Only an empty eye-socket lies in the ruined face. They believe that Asmodeus is the corrupter of the world, who is the creator of evil. His merest servants - the devils - are pure evil incarnate, his foul scions to blight the world. The Kathorians view that the world cannot be fully cleansed of evil until Asmodeus is slain. However, they await the coming of the Almighty in mortal form, calling this avatar the Dragonslayer. When he walks the earth for the first time, the Dragon shall come forth and attempt to consume the world, but will be slain by the Dragonslayer. The Korathians also believe that to do this the Dragonslayer himself must die. This is the most esoteric part of the Kathorian religion, and rarely known outside of Kathor. - Finolas, chief librarian of Tan Anor.

Britter
2008-09-29, 09:35 AM
Relevant question to all of this: How common do we think magic should be in this world? Are there teleport circles everywhere, magical sewer systems, trasnportation, food services etc, or is magic more rare. How is it viewed. Is it viewed the same way by all people. I had been leaning personally towards a magic rare world, where the manipulation of magic was acknowledged as a fact but not a common skill. I just am not a big fan or FR/Eberon type settings, where every one and his brother has a +1 mace and a magical train. :) Any other ideas/thoguhts?

ixious
2008-09-29, 10:30 AM
My idea on this is some people are born able to channel arcane, take it like the wizards/muggles from harry potter, mutants/normals from x-men, whatever, it's innate and rare. How one expresses it is what kind of mage you are. Wizards express their magic through controlled and rigid rules and teachings, Sorcerers just explode with the energy, Swordmages are taught for years in rigourous martial training how to channel magic through their weapons. Warlocks channel in specific ways to emulate their patron, all of which is arcane.

Obviously an exception to this is Clerics/Paladins. The god these two groups follow is real, maybe the cleric/paladin does not call them by their rightful name, or even fully understand who they are drawing power from, but they are drawing power from something other than themselves, thus the Divine power source over Arcane/ Divine power is available to anyone, capable of channeling arcane or not. Reliable usage though depends on following the standards of becoming a cleric/paladin/whatever. As a result even mundanes from time to time can use Divine power, just through pure belief and desperation (second wind, healing surge anyone?)

Since the society as a whole accepts magic instead of burning users at the stake many Wizards/Artificers are similar to the engineers of the society, and Swordmages may retire to become skilled blacksmiths of magical goods. I would imagine some cities would have colleges dedicated to developing independent, permanent, useful enchantments for lighting, sewer, etc and magical weapon forges offering novelle and innovative magical weapons. The issue is making any magical innovation so the masses can use them without any innate power.

Of course you will have cities that decide they are going to use only natural innovation, the kind anyone could make, but the resources are out there, and they are not taboo.


Homebrew Results of this idea:
- Cross-classing anything arcane involves a serious discussion on how you learned you could channel, and how your channeling is refined to be Wizard/Warlock/Artificer/whatever

- Swordmages getting enchant item and transfer enchantment as free rituals at Epic level, and some select shops actually buying and selling serious magical weapons.

- Artificers, same deal, shops for anything but weapons

- Most magical items require no magic to use, look at PHB wands to see this is a big change from 4E-SRD, but a few "broken" ones still require arcane channeling to use. (aka rod of meteor swarm)

- Warlocks' powers come from pacts the same way an athlete winning an event comes from their lucky underwear. By having the pact they BELIEVE they can do these certain wonders, but at the end of the day a warlock could have done all that and more on their own.

- Any other fun houserules I am missing?

Britter
2008-09-29, 11:14 AM
That sounds good to me ixious. It gives us the possibility of a limited magical item market, as well as opening up some aspects of using magic as technology without moving into a full-blown Tippy world :) No burning at the stake is good, magic as tools for research and expiriment is good. I think that the ritual system dovetails nicely with your interpretation of magic in the world, since all it takes is time and training to be able to channel the appropriate rituals.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-29, 01:07 PM
Well, this world is based on the characters in it. Let's take a look:

2 Martial - Lukas and Darion have no magic.
2 Divine (kinda): the painting paladin (whose name escapes me), and Thieran's arcane powers which are a gift from the gods.
2 Arcane: Both warlocks.

Hmm... does this world need wizards? Could magical power truly be magical, and not something anyone could do? Artificers might be good for Stahlburg and Kareth, but wizards aren't needed. Oh, and no-one is using FR stuff, so we might as well forget about the swordmage for now (at least until someone dies and wants an arcane defender...)

All this arcane power comes from a source. Sylis is unlocking his latent powers of the mind, believing that they come from the stars. Amorous (I know it may not be spelled that way, but it's so funny! :smalltongue:) takes his power from the fey of winter. The paladin and Thieran both have power granted from the gods - perhaps you need something greater than yourself to cast magic. This is going back to really, really old magic - the stuff that the Bible condemns. Let's move away from that, shall we?

Bottom line, I don't think we need wizards. Let's make magic something that isn't rare, but is always special and a mark of favor from something above you - whether the goddess of art, the Kathorian gods or the winter fey.

Edit: Let me wax lyrical on Artificers for a sec. Artificers could be a new talent from Stahlburg, mixing the powers of the Smith and Warden with the new technology that is being invented. Kareth could also have some Artificers, as the gift begins to expand.

Britter
2008-09-29, 01:12 PM
Artificers fit nicely with my concept for Stahlberg. I approve :)

Raz_Fox
2008-09-29, 01:24 PM
Artificers fit nicely with my concept for Stahlberg. I approve :)

*Takes a bow* Thank you. What do you think about dropping wizards?

ixious
2008-09-29, 01:24 PM
hmm, so in reality the feylock really is pulling from the old fey power and sylis really is pulling from the zodiac's sway on the world? If that is what the group desires, that is what we will shape things to be, it is definately what Sylis believes.

By the way, keep a way open for Swordmages, if Sylis dies a horrible death then I have plans for a nice little visitor from the Elemental Chaos, a genasi swordmage with 0 understanding of life on the prime. Think the Eladrin that still live to the far north, in fact if you want to make "genasi" just fey-beings like Eladrin just bound to a single element versus all magic, I would be gung-ho for it. In that case my replacement character would be from the north, and still oblivious.

The only reason I keep that option open is we have 0 defenders

Raz_Fox
2008-09-29, 01:26 PM
hmm, so in reality the feylock really is pulling from the old fey power and sylis really is pulling from the zodiac's sway on the world? If that is what the group desires, that is what we will shape things to be, it is definately what Sylis believes.

By the way, keep a way open for Swordmages, if Sylis dies a horrible death then I have plans for a nice little visitor from the Elemental Chaos, a genasi swordmage with 0 understanding of life on the prime. Think the Eladrin that still live to the far north, in fact if you want to make "genasi" just fey-beings like Eladrin just bound to a single element versus all magic, I would be gung-ho for it. In that case my replacement character would be from the north, and still oblivious.

The only reason I keep that option open is we have 0 defenders

Okay, Swordmages are good. Oh, and this is just my opinion. I'd ask Potato for how this actually works. I'm not much for "the power of your mind makes it real" stuff like you were proposing.

Wha? Since when did the Fighter and Paladin classes, both of which we have a party member of, become strikers?

Britter
2008-09-29, 01:33 PM
I don't want to get rid of wizards(the class or the concept) because they are so very iconic. I would assume that whereas artificers need devices, and warlocks need contact with an outside power + training, and cleric/paladins have a direct divine connection, wizards have a more natural grasp of magic. A wizard can manipulate the stuff through a combination of training and discipline, but they don't need anything other then the power of their mind. No pacts, no worship, no divine charge, no magical dohicies (though the use of magic dohickies can improve or add on to a wizards magical abilities). They wrest power from the aether by training and force of will, and with it they can alter reality/physics/etc at will, more or less.

By using artificers, we have a reason for a magic item economy(hopefully a limited one, as the general concept of "Ye Olde-Tyme Magik Shoppe" really grinds my gears) supported by skilled craftsmen. At the same time, wizards are rare, but still common enough that they can create truly powerful artifacts, unusual monsters (owlbears, I am looking at you ), magical traps and buildings and the like. There own't be one in every town, but a major city might have a college of magic-users, or at least one caster of middling power to handle ritual needs.

ixious
2008-09-29, 01:34 PM
My brain shut down apparently, I read the party members and thought we didn't have a defender, whatever.

As for the "power of mind" stuff, it was more to keep things simple.

"There is 1 arcane power source, how you access it and shape it defines the differences between jobs"

but if you want it to be different that is why we have this thread. :) I made the zodiac, past that point I just propose ideas.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-29, 01:41 PM
I don't want to get rid of wizards(the class or the concept) because they are so very iconic. I would assume that whereas artificers need devices, and warlocks need contact with an outside power + training, and cleric/paladins have a direct divine connection, wizards have a more natural grasp of magic. A wizard can manipulate the stuff through a combination of training and discipline, but they don't need anything other then the power of their mind. No pacts, no worship, no divine charge, no magical dohicies (though the use of magic dohickies can improve or add on to a wizards magical abilities). They wrest power from the aether by training and force of will, and with it they can alter reality/physics/etc at will, more or less.

By using artificers, we have a reason for a magic item economy(hopefully a limited one, as the general concept of "Ye Olde-Tyme Magik Shoppe" really grinds my gears) supported by skilled craftsmen. At the same time, wizards are rare, but still common enough that they can create truly powerful artifacts, unusual monsters (owlbears, I am looking at you ), magical traps and buildings and the like. There own't be one in every town, but a major city might have a college of magic-users, or at least one caster of middling power to handle ritual needs.

Well, just because they're iconic won't save them from the axe. However, I understand what you're saying. I like the phrase "wresting from the aether" - that's really cool. So, keep the wizards but make them very rare? Who's with me?

Oh, and Ixious. I think it's just more iconic to have different classes have different paths to power. You don't think a wizard and bard have the same type of spellcasting, do you?
Oh, and I just love the fey and star pact flavor, so that's why I wanted to keep it. You and Baxter can override me on this one, like I could override you when you started talking about Kathor.

Britter
2008-09-29, 01:41 PM
I would set-up two seperate sources of "spell power", as is standard for d and d

Divine and Arcane.

Divine is the easy one, tapping into the divine mojo through religious appointment. I perfer distant, inaccsessible gods, as I feel that it creates more interesting roleplay around religion (after all, it is hard to have questions of belief when you can just cast "Dial-a-Deity" and ask your god whats up :smallsmile: ). So I would assume that the divine casters are all by virtue of belief or church annoitment (and in rare cases, direct divine intervention) able to tap into the deific powers to do their mojo.

Arcane power is the manipulation of the raw energies of the world, either by complex contructions and devices (artifcing) or via training and willpower (Wizardry). It is a phenomena that can be studied, observed, and controled by those that can manipulate it, and is much less common then divine power.

Warlocks are kind of the oddball here, being more or less right in the middle. The warlock, in my opinion, contracts with a powersource. That power, be it fey, star-pact, or infernal, channels it's abilities into the warlock. Tghe warlock trains him or her self to be able to grasp and channel this power in ever increasing amounts. In doing so they become more and more aware of how the mind of the powersource works, which can lead to insanity, strange insights, un-earthly wisdom, or similar things.

In other news, my browser here at work has no spellcheck, and I am one heck of a poor typist. My apologies for the many spelling errors.

ixious
2008-09-29, 01:47 PM
All cool, so Sylis is correct. Fine with me, doesn't change how he plays as much as how much of a fool he may come off. Now he legitimately has discovered something that the religious/academic society denies, versus just losing his mind.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-29, 01:47 PM
I would set-up two seperate sources of "spell power", as is standard for d and d

Divine and Arcane.

Divine is the easy one, tapping into the divine mojo through religious appointment. I perfer distant, inaccsessible gods, as I feel that it creates more interesting roleplay around religion (after all, it is hard to have questions of belief when you can just cast "Dial-a-Deity" and ask your god whats up :smallsmile: ). So I would assume that the divine casters are all by virtue of belief or church annoitment (and in rare cases, direct divine intervention) able to tap into the deific powers to do their mojo.

Arcane power is the manipulation of the raw energies of the world, either by complex contructions and devices (artifcing) or via training and willpower (Wizardry). It is a phenomena that can be studied, observed, and controled by those that can manipulate it, and is much less common then divine power.

Warlocks are kind of the oddball here, being more or less right in the middle. The warlock, in my opinion, contracts with a powersource. That power, be it fey, star-pact, or infernal, channels it's abilities into the warlock. Tghe warlock trains him or her self to be able to grasp and channel this power in ever increasing amounts. In doing so they become more and more aware of who the mind of the powersource works, which can lead to insanity, strange insights, un-earthly wisdom, or similar things.

In other news, my browser here at work has no spellcheck, and I am one heck of a poor typist. My apologies for the many spelling errors.

Alright. The divine ps in this world is a bit weird, actually:
The priests of the fey are warlocks, usually.
The priests of the Eight are traditional Paladins and Clerics.
The priests of the Almighty usually don't have divine power - those are the gifts of the gods, like Ioun/Kor/Raz giving Thieran the ability to cast spells in old Asur. A Paladin of Njord is given a sign somehow, perhaps a sighting of Leviathan and living, and then they realize their new power from Njord. It's simply good manners to dedicate your life to that god.

I simply love your Arcane power source, though. I won't mess with it; you're doing a good job as is.


Edit: :smalleek: Saint's and Proxies, I've had this account for a week and I'm already a dwarf itp. I really need to cut back...

Raz_Fox
2008-09-29, 01:48 PM
All cool, so Sylis is correct. Fine with me, doesn't change how he plays as much as how much of a fool he may come off. Now he legitimately has discovered something that the religious/academic society denies, versus just losing his mind.

As I've suggested before, why not both? :smallamused:

ixious
2008-09-29, 01:58 PM
chose one:

Sylis, formerly lead astrologist for (insert town), was discharged from his position for heretical claims. He sent with a group of adventurers, where over time his madness spiraled to the point of delusions. Accompanying and possibly amplifying the madness, Sylis was capable of channeling Arcane energy into spirals of madness, thus driving those with him insane as well.

or

Sylis, formerly lead astrologist for (insert town), was discharged from his position for heretical claims. He sent with a group of adventurers, where over time he began to manifest powers similar to that of the fabled "Wizard". He attributes these powers to his heretical beliefs, and due to the destructive nature of his powers, few can risk questioning it.

Britter
2008-09-29, 02:00 PM
Apologies for double posting.

Raz, thats exactly what I mean. Because only the rare gifted individual has the ability to grasp reality and twist it without any assistance from divine beings, special devices, or otherworldly beings, it is unusual to meet a wizard. Because of the nature of the world, wizards would generqally be respected and considered special, as opposed to being treated like a useful applinance or a heretical user of evil forces.

This gives room for pc's interested in being a controller to have a class option, while at the same time justifying the lack of a wizard in the current party. We also have a good reason for a nation of artificers, like Stahlberg or Kareth, as opposed to them being wizard heavy, population wise.

This leads into the question of who taught magic in it's various forms to the peoples of the world. Artificng should be the invention of a younger race, like the humans or the non-eladrin elves, who were seeking a way to acsess the power of magic without the pesky prerequisite of magical skill :) Not sure which would be better.

The invention of artificing was to access powers that would be similar to what another culture or creature could dd naturally. Some posasible candidates could be dragons or dragonborn, Teiflings, powerful fey spirits, or perhaps Mind Flayers. I have always wanted to use mindflayers as the primordial big bads of a setting, and relegate things like dragons to the place of pure myth and legend.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-29, 02:29 PM
Apologies for double posting.

Raz, thats exactly what I mean. Because only the rare gifted individual has the ability to grasp reality and twist it without any assistance from divine beings, special devices, or otherworldly beings, it is unusual to meet a wizard. Because of the nature of the world, wizards would generqally be respected and considered special, as opposed to being treated like a useful applinance or a heretical user of evil forces.

This gives room for pc's interested in being a controller to have a class option, while at the same time justifying the lack of a wizard in the current party. We also have a good reason for a nation of artificers, like Stahlberg or Kareth, as opposed to them being wizard heavy, population wise.

This leads into the question of who taught magic in it's various forms to the peoples of the world. Artificng should be the invention of a younger race, like the humans or the non-eladrin elves, who were seeking a way to acsess the power of magic without the pesky prerequisite of magical skill :) Not sure which would be better.

The invention of artificing was to access powers that would be similar to what another culture or creature could dd naturally. Some posasible candidates could be dragons or dragonborn, Teiflings, powerful fey spirits, or perhaps Mind Flayers. I have always wanted to use mindflayers as the primordial big bads of a setting, and relegate things like dragons to the place of pure myth and legend.

:smallfurious:There are no younger races!!:smallfurious:

Ahem. Excuse me. I meant: I really think that the races should have begun to craft civilization at the same time. I think humans and the Stahlburg elves would have mastered Artificing, and it could be trying to imitate the great wizards of Stahlburg, a small group of a dozen (!) wizards who begun a college in one of Stahlburg's cities.

Or Dragonborn Draconic-Pact warlocks could be the imitation.

Oh, and I'd prefer the iconic Dragons to the wierd Mind Flayers. Got no problems fighting them, but I wouldn't want one to be the BBEG.

ixious
2008-09-29, 02:46 PM
wow...a heated debate on the origin of magic. Oh and sidenote...DRAGON-PACT? I would ADORE to play an NPC of that in the campaign somewhere.

It wouldn't be hard at all for me to take swordmage's list of powers (since apparently we do not need it anymore, artificer replaced my original idea on where they could fit in) and make a few things breath instead of weapon. Voila! Dragon-Pact with the Pact-Boon being the Swordmage's Aegis of Assault power, modified to be

I mark X
X dies
I can fly up to 10 squares to enemy Y and do some attack

Has anyone else though about NPCs they would want to play in this world? I understand it may come to the point of talking to ourselves, but it also would put some relief on the DM to have a few non-vital NPCs that way the DM isn't having to post every 10 seconds.

potatocubed
2008-09-29, 02:47 PM
See, I just finished reading The Blackgod by Greg Keyes, in which deities can 'pour' themselves into specially prepared people, expressing their power through their vessel - the stronger the vessel the more power they could channel before being consumed. That's kind of how I see the warlocks - when you make the initial pact that makes you a warlock, you open a small gate in yourself that links you to some greater source of power. The more practiced you are, the more power you can let through without having your brain fried.

I'd say... perhaps it is actually possible to channel raw arcane magic without making a pact, but it's pretty much a guaranteed disaster. Without the extra control a deity or pact-thing gives you, you're trying to subjugate near-infinite power with your feeble mortal mind. Wizards are the few who manage to pull off this stunt sucessfully, and they're universally strong-willed, intense types. They're very rare, although slightly more common among the eladrin and dwarves. The eladrin have more experience with magic and a higher success rate when trying to channel it directly. The dwarves just have the physical and mental toughness to make it work. Oh, and I suppose tieflings also get the 'extra wizards' clause on those counts.

Artificiers are a sort of 'cheat' in this system. They never touch the magic directly but 'encourage' it to assume fixed forms and patterns within their items. It's an attempt to achieve the magical flexibility of the wizards without the attendant risk of being reduced to an arcane smear on the workshop floor.

Ritual magic is... what? Something similar to the spells of the artificiers, I guess. By encouraging arcane magic to follow certain set patterns, you can achieve some of the power of the wizards with less destructive consequences. When rituals go wrong there's usually some sort of minor feedback - not enough to have game effects, but enough to cause cosmetic damage to the ritualist and scenery.

EDIT: Mindflayers, and the accompanying psionic powers, I'd rather leave well alone for the time being. Not that I have a problem with illithids and psionics - quite the opposite - but it's an added complexity that we don't need right now.

Also, dragon-pact warlock/spellblades? WIN AND BISCUITS. Someone write that down. :smalltongue:

Britter
2008-09-29, 02:54 PM
Dragon Pact is indeed sweet.

Raz, when I say "younger races" I am refering to the current settings races. I agree that they should be co-temerous in terms of when they began developing civilizations. Elder races are things that are ancient beyond the keen of mere mortals, like archons, angels, some powerful intelligent giants, dragons et all. Not trying to step on your toes or anything, I just use different language then you, but I think I mean the same thing :)

So, dragons are in, mind flayers are out, and I like Raz's and Potato's input re: the working of magic. Momentum is good, lets keep plugging away.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-29, 03:09 PM
wow...a heated debate on the origin of magic. Oh and sidenote...DRAGON-PACT? I would ADORE to play an NPC of that in the campaign somewhere.

It wouldn't be hard at all for me to take swordmage's list of powers (since apparently we do not need it anymore, artificer replaced my original idea on where they could fit in) and make a few things breath instead of weapon. Voila! Dragon-Pact with the Pact-Boon being the Swordmage's Aegis of Assault power, modified to be

I mark X
X dies
I can fly up to 10 squares to enemy Y and do some attack

Has anyone else though about NPCs they would want to play in this world? I understand it may come to the point of talking to ourselves, but it also would put some relief on the DM to have a few non-vital NPCs that way the DM isn't having to post every 10 seconds.

Yeah, it's the pact where you have to be really tough to control the dragon-fire coursing through your body that you can unleash in horrific power against your foes. Oh, wait... :smalltongue:

Your idea is one I hadn't thought of (I don't have FR) and it's really cool.
That NPC idea is one we'll have to pitch to Potato. All in all, good work!

Britter
2008-09-29, 03:38 PM
Ixious, if we decide not to use dragon pact, I see no reason that swordmage can't be an aspect of magic use that is related to the mechanic of artificing, in as far as instead of direct manipulation of the magic you learn to direct it through a tool, in this case the techniques of swordsmanship. It works just fine for me, and adds a little depth to the way magic works, imo.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-29, 03:57 PM
:smalleek: Whoa. That Dragon pact mention wasn't actually all that serious. I'd make it either into Ixious's swordmage idea or a re-flavored Infernalock.

Potato, I really like that interpretation of magic. I'd see fey magic as wild and regulated only by the laws of the fey themselves, while the magic of the Eight Gods is more sedate and rule-bound.

The blessings of the Kathorian gods find their own ways to channel. Thieran chants in old Asuran as a way to focus his magic. His personality is influenced by the gods working through him - his zeal to punish evil, flamboyant personality and lust for knowledge were all normal traits for him that were turned up to 11 by the three gods working through him.

Edit: Oh, and don't get used to this whole "Raz posting all day" thing. I've got a reduced workload today, but I'll be posting mostly in the mornings, lunch breaks and evenings. Still, I'm glad I was able to watch the forums today.

Raistlin1040
2008-09-29, 05:54 PM
Pardon me, but I think of the Eight's magic being fairly untamed as well (Keene, case in point). I don't think any of them, with the possible exception of Faust, truly see themselves as gods. I mean, they grant spells, and can do great things, but they are all elves, likely normal elves at some point. I see them as fairly fluid. Maybe not as wild as the fey, but still unbound by traditional rules.

Keene appears in the mortal realm all the time. As herself. Sambr and Vaeri appear in disguises. Adra and Shiron are not above appearing in disguises if something directly need to be changed. Jelacia and Faust are probably always in disguise on the plane, manipulating people to their will. Dayrin is likely in his god realm, but I can see him sending avatars to the world.

Basically they don't feel the need to stay out of mortal affairs, and (especially the non-lawful ones) intervene whenever they feel it's necessary. It's even possible that very powerful characters (high-level characters) would meet them directly.

Britter
2008-09-29, 07:44 PM
Raistlin, That really helps differentiate the two elven cultures we have so far. Yours has active, real, manifesting divine figures that have an active role in the world, while mine has a set of distant and unknowable gods. I like the counter point, and it helps prevent a "uniform across the world" elven culture. Good stuff, imo.

ixious
2008-09-30, 07:52 AM
This sounds bad and lazy of me, but oh great keeper of the thread, will you bless us with a post or three that describe the current situation with Religion/Gods/Magic? It has changed so much over 1 day even that I can not remember.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-30, 08:09 AM
And the clouds parted, and the Keeper of the Thread spake thusly:
Sure, why not?

Let's see. There are four main religions in the ruins of the Kathorian empire. One is the Kathorian pantheon (my favorite, obviously), the second is the enigimatic Stahlburg religion of the Smith and Warden, the third is the Eight Elves, and the fourth is the Fey Worship.

The Kathorian gods meddle in the lives of mortals like they once were a lot, but the Almighty never acts. The Smith and Warden are metephorical and distant, and may even be aspects of the Almighty. The Eight Elves are active in the lives of their followers, and were once mortals like the Kathorian gods. And the Fey are just crazy and wild, with commandments such as "Thou shalt grow this mushroom, and partake from it, and watch the pretty colors."

The stars are unknowable and constantly changing. Who can say whether they affect the ways of man? And who can say who is behind their workings?


See, I just finished reading The Blackgod by Greg Keyes, in which deities can 'pour' themselves into specially prepared people, expressing their power through their vessel - the stronger the vessel the more power they could channel before being consumed. That's kind of how I see the warlocks - when you make the initial pact that makes you a warlock, you open a small gate in yourself that links you to some greater source of power. The more practiced you are, the more power you can let through without having your brain fried.

I'd say... perhaps it is actually possible to channel raw arcane magic without making a pact, but it's pretty much a guaranteed disaster. Without the extra control a deity or pact-thing gives you, you're trying to subjugate near-infinite power with your feeble mortal mind. Wizards are the few who manage to pull off this stunt sucessfully, and they're universally strong-willed, intense types. They're very rare, although slightly more common among the eladrin and dwarves. The eladrin have more experience with magic and a higher success rate when trying to channel it directly. The dwarves just have the physical and mental toughness to make it work. Oh, and I suppose tieflings also get the 'extra wizards' clause on those counts.

Artificiers are a sort of 'cheat' in this system. They never touch the magic directly but 'encourage' it to assume fixed forms and patterns within their items. It's an attempt to achieve the magical flexibility of the wizards without the attendant risk of being reduced to an arcane smear on the workshop floor.

Ritual magic is... what? Something similar to the spells of the artificiers, I guess. By encouraging arcane magic to follow certain set patterns, you can achieve some of the power of the wizards with less destructive consequences. When rituals go wrong there's usually some sort of minor feedback - not enough to have game effects, but enough to cause cosmetic damage to the ritualist and scenery.

That's arcane magic. Divine magic comes straight from the gods, in whatever form they choose. The Kathorian gods and the Eight Elves are pretty direct, while the Smith, Warden and Almighty move in mysterious ways.

Oh, and the Fey are just having fun mucking around with mortals. Especially humans, who have the mark of something... strange about them, something that can't be seen by the fey but is assuredly there.

ixious
2008-09-30, 08:13 AM
Thanks much, +3 SAN for me!

Raz_Fox
2008-09-30, 11:16 AM
Alright, I have a little time before lunch.

Would you guys like some fluff on Nov'Serra OR the dragonborn kingdom of Draline?

Oh, and who's for eliminating Tieflings from the setting? I agree with Britter, the Tieflings shall die at midnight... :smallamused:

Well, Raz and Britter = 2 votes
Potato and Ixious = 101 votes.

Tieflings stay?

ixious
2008-09-30, 11:31 AM
how about this for Tieflings, Devils that have rebelled against hell. They are rare, hunted, and could be good, evil, whatever, but always working against hell.

We may run into ONE or a small group over the entire campaign, but they are not PCs, just a template for if the DM wants to make a special NPC.

Britter
2008-09-30, 12:27 PM
I say we axe the teiflings. I don't think they add much to the setting, and any of the various existant demonic creatures could be re-fluffed as rebels if needed.

Raz_Fox
2008-09-30, 06:48 PM
I'll do some fluff on Nov'Serra then.

Watch the black-skinned traders as they unload their merchandise onto the dock. Their white hair is pulled back or hidden under wide-brimmed leather hats. The multi-colored cloth they loosely wrap around their bodies is sometimes adorned with gold, silver and platinum. The Nov'Serran dark elves, or Drow, have several sethen, or social ranks. The lowest sethen is Izarn, or worthless slave in Dark Elven. The Izarn are slaves who have no use to their masters, and are branded as such. The next sethen is Byln, or useful servant. The Byln are needed for the tasks they do, and are left unbranded. Then come the Urtis, or chosen servants. They are nearly freemen, and sometimes have even more freedom than the next sethen, the Karn. The Karn, Zir and the Lilith sethen are translated dangerous, canny and holy freeman, respectively. The Karn are soldiers and guards, while the Zir are roughly minor nobles and the merchants. The Lilith sethen are the rulers of the loose Drow tribes that control Nov'Serra. The Drow are amoral, greedy and ruthless but are deeply loyal to "drowkind". Most other races are around the rank of the Byln to the Drow, useful and needed but not to be helped or thanked. The Drow have tried to conquer the other lands but after the War of Spiders against the Kathorians and the Corenthians, Lilith'Kazor-Melz suggested that the Drow rule the world through trade, not by swords. Since then, Nov'Serra has supplied the world with exotic wares and trinkets, from spider-silk clothing to moonsilver amulets. The Nov'Serrans don't care about gender in rank but have a deeper respect for women than most cultures - the Moon fey seek out promising female Drow to bond with. This is only one peculiarity of many - Nov'Serran culture is alien to any other that has evolved in the world. From no taboos on nudity or polygamy to strict taboos on certain ways of eating or dressing, the death penalty for stealing and the forbiddance of any other religion being practiced other than the worship of the Moon fey. Truly, it would take an entire book to speak fully about this enigmatic culture.

ixious
2008-10-01, 06:31 AM
So beyond small changes, is the world pretty well set? I mean we are playing in it now so I would assume it can only be so fluid with a campaign occurring within it.

potatocubed
2008-10-01, 06:56 AM
I would assume it can only be so fluid with a campaign occurring within it.

You'd be surprised. :smalltongue:

Basically, as things become relevant to the story they become fixed. Locations of things, history, presence or absence of tieflings*... these are unlikely to change, but the option exists to amend them if necessary.

* I like tieflings, but I seem to be in the minority here...

ixious
2008-10-01, 08:09 AM
Who here has seen buffy the vampire slayer? I think of Tieflings as being similar to the green skinned demon who runs the kareoke bar, technically a devil but not "following the plan".

Baxter190
2008-10-01, 06:15 PM
I like the idea of the Warlocks being given power, than naturally having them. How about this: Warlocks don't naturally have magic like sorcerrers. Their power is what they recieve from their Patron fey, as they grow, their patron fey grows in power. However, not everyone can become warlocks. There is a spark that must be their, to not to hold the power of such a grand being, to hold in yourself the power of a fey or a devil. As for starlocks, you do what you want with them.

Raz_Fox
2008-10-01, 09:58 PM
I want you all to know before you read this that I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Especially to Tim McGraw.

As most of you readers now know, my friend Thieran is of a musical persuasion. Most of the Trading songs he sings are frankly strange and inaccurate, but I caught him singing a song with a fairly accurate portrayal of Dralani life. My notes on it follow:

I'm a Dralani outlaw,
The Dralani tribes label anyone who is not part of a tribe as an outlaw, and the term doesn't have the negative connotations it has in Kathor.
Half Copper and Black,
my baby she's a Golden,
she's a one of a kind.
Dragonborn are noted for the interesting colors of their scales, both metallic and chromatic, and the further blends caused by interbreeding.

My friends call me Fireclaw,
Dragonborn often take for themselves nicknames, mostly based around dragons and the elements.
The village chieftain is my papa,
he gets his orders from my mama,
she makes him walk the line!
Dralani society is highly matriarchal, with females rising to positions of great power and often ordering around the male "leaders".

You can find me in my tent,
Dragonborn are nomads and wanderers, with no fixed structures.
I'll be beating on my drum,
The "musical tradition" of the dragonborn mainly consists of drumming and the playing of flutes.
Pull out the pipe and smoke you some,
hey, and pass it around.
Dragonborn enjoy smoking "Feypipes", containing the fire of the dragons to light it, the freezing cold sensation over your entire body after taking a pull at it, thunder that arcs over the pipe, the poison fumes entering your lungs and the taste of acid in your mouth for weeks. IT IS NOT ADVISED TO TRY A FEYPIPE, DO SO AT YOUR OWN PERIL.

I ain't looking for trouble,
we can ride my Drake double.
Make your little heart bubble,
lord, like a glass of wine.
Dragonborn are renowned for their riding of wild drakes and behemoths. Quite possibly they are the only race that can do so.

I can kill a wyvern or buffalo,
with just an arrow and my hide bow,
from a hundred yards, don't you know?
I do it all the time!
Dragonborn are masterful archerers, often using a hit-and-run style of fighting riding on drakes and firing their lethal shots.

They all gather around my teepee,
late at night trying to catch a peek at me,
in nothin' but my drake-skin briefs,
I got 'em standing in line.
Dragonborn have no idea of pairing oneself to one mate forever, and often have polygamous relationships. Very distasteful.

Dralani people,
Dralani tribe,
so proud to live,
so proud to die!
The major flaw of the dragonborn is their towering pride, which can blind them and make them dangerously reckless. Discretion is advised.

Raz_Fox
2008-10-03, 08:35 AM
Well, I guess I'm the only one that still has ideas for the setting at this point. I'd just like to flesh out a Kathorian orginization that my character Thieran has tenous ties to. So without further ado, the Brothers of Kor.

The gods of Kathor each have their own religious followings. Hlal has Hlal's Journeymen, Baldur has the Healers of the Broken, Kor has the Brothers of Kor. Dressed in black and red, these fearsome warrior-scholars are Kor's templars and servants. The great fortress-monasteries of Kor often have great libraries dedicated to Ioun, and healers of the injured dedicated to Baldur, but more than 80% of the men in these monasteries fight for Kor alone. The Brothers are often considered by the king as part of any army he will muster, for often whenever war is on the horizon the Brothers are the first ones there. The Brothers have recently been fighting hard against the Tharisians and their allied Orc tribes in the north. Most Brothers are very comfortable with mountainous terrain, often training in such inhospitable places, and currently fight the Orcs for possession of the Eagle Mountains to the north, attempting to build a new fortress-monastery. A Brother of Kor is expected to spend his life either in study or in battle. Fortress-monasteries often have a large collection of weaponry, either forged by the Brothers or taken in battle. Most of these weapons are swords, broadswords especially, but there are also axes and spears wielded by the Brothers. They mostly wear black chainmail, but occasionally one will find dragonscale armor or Stahlburg plate among them. Promotion is based upon merit and piety, and especially in these dark days can be very quick. The current Grand Master of the Brothers of Kor, Math, was only a Captain two years ago, when his life was saved by a wild freelancer in service to three gods. His service fighting the Orcs and the Confederacy in the north and his brilliant leadership and strategy led the Council of Masters to choose him after Ewan ac Llyan was killed at the battle of Harbor's Reach.


Edit: Oh, and so far these playable races haven't been mentioned in the setting: Halflings, the Gith, Gnolls, Gnomes, Kobolds, Minotaurs, Shadar-Kai, Shifters and Warforged. I'd like to know which ones we want to drop from the setting and which ones we'll keep for future mention and development. I'd only like to keep Gnolls, Kobolds and Shifters, but I call working on Gnomes if we keep them. (They'll be evil, just so you know.)

Britter
2008-10-03, 09:01 AM
I sort of want to wait and see where we go with the game before jumping into a lot of creation atm. By all means go for it if you have ideas, I just don't feel the need to add anything right now. The rough skeleton is appearing and I am hoping our adventures start adding flesh to it.

ixious
2008-10-03, 09:03 AM
agree entirely. I think we have put more manhours into creating this world than most DMs do for a year long campaign....

Britter
2008-10-03, 09:16 AM
Exactly, and like most DM's, I feel like the vast majority of our work will exist only as little known background info, because the PCs go off somewhere entirely different from what I worked on detailing :) Essentially, I am suggesting that we see how and when we get off the rials, and then make that into campaign cannon, in addition to all the work that has already gone into this.

Raz_Fox
2008-10-03, 09:51 AM
Perhaps you're right. I still want wild Gnoll tribes, Kobolds being the "civilized" children of the dragon compared to the wild Dragonborn tribes, and my anthropomorphic vulpines and lupines, but I'll eventually find a place for them with potato. Perhaps a better question would be what races do you want fleshed out eventually?

I'll calm down on the worldbuilding. I just love it so much. :smallredface: Perhaps now we could simply flesh out our respective nations (or zodiacs) a bit more so potato knows what we would like done with them, like I fleshed out Kathor with the Brothers of Kor. (If potato is reading this, I'd like a plotline on them eventually, perhaps late Heroic when we'd be fighting orcs.)

ixious
2008-10-04, 06:30 AM
Anthros...hot, I'll handle that if you will give me a vague idea how you want them to fit into the world around them. You give me the lines and I will color them in ^(.)^

Raz_Fox
2008-10-04, 10:43 AM
Well, we're getting into areas that perhaps we should flesh out in the IC thread. We should leave. We should really... really, leave.

:smallbiggrin:

I was thinking of them as being like the Hybrid Hengeyokai form from 3.0's Oriental Adventures - they're bipedal and have hands, but generally resemble their animal in having fur, wings, tail, etc. I really want Foxes, but wolves, weasels and eagles would be pretty cool as well.

(Kudos if you get the reference, by the way.)

potatocubed
2008-10-04, 04:05 PM
Just a couple of comments in passing:

1. Fox changers are one of my favourite things ever.

2. Warforged are one of my least favourite things ever.

Britter
2008-10-04, 04:25 PM
I have no issues with axing warforged. They don't add anything here imo.

Raz_Fox
2008-10-04, 04:35 PM
Die, Iron Man, Die!

Yeah, Warforged are out. In other worlds they're cool but here they have no place. (Especially because Potato would kill me if I included them. Why the animosity towards them?)

However, I'm not sure I got my point across regarding Shifters. I dislike the "children of lycanthropes" thing, as well as "we're hairy humans, until we become REALLY HAIRY!!!" thing. So I'm considering changing them into anthropomorphic animals, especially foxes, wolves, hawks and foxes. Is that what you meant, Potato?

...Oh, and did I mention I like foxes? :smallbiggrin:

ixious
2008-10-05, 08:48 AM
keep the template, change the appearance and backstory to anthros, sounds like a great way to handle it :)

Now are anthros from a certain area or are they a prevalent race? Are they treated as equals by the primary races or as inferior? Are there entire cities of them? In those cities or villages what is the government and education system like? What would be the preferred class of one of them?

My ideas for these:
They are a minority race that mostly try to stay to their own, traveling like gypsies. Adventurers are somewhat used to interacting with them for mundane goods and occasionally running into anthro robbers in the woods. Civilized folk (think Sylis) think ill of them (oh gods...me roleplaying ill will toward an anthro..irony) as if they are half-human, therefore theier presence in a city is often scorned, but in a large cities you will find a group living together. They are honor bound and matriarchal. Men are trained to be Barbarians and women Druids, and the majority worship nature itself and believe in reincarnation. They believe they were created in the image of the nature goddess, divine/primal creations with the ability to speak directly with nature.

Observed races include Vulpine, Lupine, and Bovine. The Bovines differ from but have an amiable relation with centaurs and minotaurs, though an in depth discussion on beliefs would reveal the Bolvines believe Taurs to be the result of arcane magic, while they are the result of Divine (technically Primal...).


Obviously I am 100% just throwing out ideas, heck I would LOVE to not have them as the downtrodden outcasts, but anthros always seem to fall into that role.

Raz_Fox
2008-10-05, 01:07 PM
I've had some ideas on the subject:

Shifters, or Halfers, are wanderers by choice. They are mostly found in the regions near the Midnight Wood, but bands of Shifters can be found as far north as the Eagle Mountains and the river Asuddel. One can discover whether a certain individual is well-read by how they treat Shifters. If this individual mocks them for being "halfers", then they clearly are no student of history. If, however, the individual treats them with respect and courtesy, then they must have read about the wars in southern Kathor and Corenthia won by the judicious application of Shifter hired swords.

Shifters are WARRIORS, pure and simple. It matters little whether one faces a quick Vulpir knife-thrower, a graceful Lupir spearman, a precise Mustir archerer or a Gryph warrior whose blade shines with the might of Valerian, Njord and Vaeri. All will kill you stone dead in a heartbeat. Shifters don't want their women to stay away from fighting like most cultures do, and couples charge into battle side-by-side. These wild fighters are the reason that the Tharis Confederacy is still struggling against Kathor - King Eldacar's father granted Katn the Wanderer the land of Roran which is northwest of Kathor and now the sons of Katn's followers have strong ties to Kathor. However, there are many wandering bands of Shifters and some say that if Corenthia's theocracy ever attacks Kathor that Shifter warriors will stand side-by-side with Corenthia's troops.

There are four basic types of Shifters commonly seen in the former Kathorian lands - the fox-like Vulpir, the wolf-kin Lupir, the sly weasel-like Mustir and the flying Gryphs. All four have both quick and strong Shifters among them, and all can be swordsmen or spearmen or archerers. Strangely, Shifters are terrible at magic - even magic granted by the fey or by devils. One could speculate that it is because Shifters are creatures of the earth - the opposite of the highly-magical Fey.

I started thinking which classes need Str-Dex-Wis, and Fighter came up with all three. They're also good at being Rangers, Rogues and the Divine classes. So clearly making Shifters into wandering mercenaries looked like a good way to go. Opinions?

Edit: The reason I didn't choose Barbarians is because I have no idea how they'll turn out. Probably they'll focus on Con, which is something Shifters have no +to. When I see the Barbarian on the 9th, perhaps I'll edit this. Meh. Strength/Con/Cha? Fighter actually is a much better fit. Perhaps in this world Shifters aren't beserkers for the most part? Power sources are actually very fragile in 4E - Thieran's a mix of all three power sources.

ixious
2008-10-05, 01:52 PM
Barbarians? The primal source fits well

Raz_Fox
2008-10-12, 09:09 PM
Y'know, after finding Girl Genius for the first time, now I really want the Roranshifters to speak in the German accent of the Jagermonsters. :smallbiggrin:

I had never heard of Jagers at the time that I was creating the Shifters, and now I realize that it fits so well. They're a culture focused on war with great physical diversity that are either respected or feared.

...Though maybe without the hats. :smallamused: Can you see foxmen and eaglemen with top hats and fedoras among their helmets?