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View Full Version : Mixing Genres: Good idea, bad idea, or meh?



Person_Man
2008-09-29, 07:32 PM
So after playing through Force Unleashed (mediocre game, btw) I had the urge to homebrew a new Jedi/Soulknife fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5014030).

I've used homebrew classes on and off over the past decade or so in each of the D&D editions with mixed results. (2nd ed was actually the easiest, as it had optional rules for creating your own class. Why aren't they in 3rd and 4th ed?) After posting my Soulknife, a friend PM'd me. He said that the class seemed cool and balanced, but that it would never see the light of day in a real campaign, because it made D&D too Star Wars like.

Sadly, I agree. When Tome of Battle came out, many criticized it for being too anime. When 4E came out, many criticized it for being too much like World of Warcraft, or video games in general. For many people, D&D is a medieval Tolkien-ish knights and wizard game. And the further you get away from that, the weirder it seems. And if its too weird for whatever reason, they don't accept it into their game.

For some people, having a robot Warforged suddenly show up to attack your character just ruins the verisimilitude. For other people its, "Hey cool I want to play a robot that fights ninja and pirates!"

So, what's your opinion?
What should the default D&D setting be like?
What is your D&D setting do you usually play in, and how open are you to mixing it with other genres?

Behold_the_Void
2008-09-29, 07:39 PM
I'll shamelessly mix genres if I want to. What makes a good, fun game for myself and my players is what's important.

Rei_Jin
2008-09-29, 07:53 PM
I guess it all boils down to individual taste.

The classic Dungeons and Dragons setting is the mid to high fantasy world, with knights and dragons and trolls. There aren't any robots, trains, guns, or other nonsense. Tolkien and Howard write books in a similar vein to this, without capturing the higher level of magic that we're used to now. Eddings may be a bit closer to the classic standard, but that's a matter for discussion.

Warforged as sentient constructs is fine for me. Even firearms (as long as they're primitive in nature) are fine too. But when you start bringing in things that just come across as silly, then unless the nature of the game is humour, I don't like it. Halflings riding dinosaurs? Trains? A lot of the Eberron setting smacks of Pratchett without the tongue in cheek intelligence and humour.

If I'm playing a game as Bob the Destroyer, then fine. Dinosaur riding halflings a-gogo. Heck, I'm likely to get myself a cowboy hat and track down the Tarrasque for a rodeo as well. But it's not high fantasy, it's a humour campaign.

Soulknives are very jedi-ish in nature. I can accept their existence. In fact, I once made a replacement base class for them that was a meld of the monk, soulknife, and warlock classes that specifically mimiced a Jedi. I did give it a different name, and different guiding influence, but it looked like a Jedi. And for the game we were playing, it was fine. But everything depends on what game you want to play.

There's nothing wrong as long as the group you're playing with are happy with it. If they're not, then it doesn't work for you. Same as D&D 3.5/4th ed. If it works for you, then that's cool. Everyone has different tastes, and there's nothing wrong with that. Arguing that one thing or the other is wrong, is pointless, when it's all about personal preference.

Beleriphon
2008-09-29, 07:59 PM
IHalflings riding dinosaurs? Trains? A lot of the Eberron setting smacks of Pratchett without the tongue in cheek intelligence and humour.

While the intention is to make a setting where pervasive, long time understanding has brought a level of scientific process to magic. And borrows from pulp settings. Thus halflings riding dinosaurs. And red line travel via lightning rail. Both make perfect sense in the setting, which is avowadly not Tolkienesque in any way.

I think a better description for Eberron is Pulp Fantasy.

Lemur
2008-09-29, 08:01 PM
I hold favorable attitudes towards genre mixing, but it needs some underlying construction, as opposed to throwing everything together. I'm not a big fan of the Eberron-style of putting everything in the same place at once since it takes away the special effect you get out of mixing things up. Cyborg dragons from outer space are great as long as no one's ever heard of them before. If they're a playable race, there's really no point.

For me, the "default" setting should be a generic fantasy continent with a loosely constructed theological system- that is, the gods aren't known with full certainty as in Faerun, but instead have various religions that don't necessarily respect other worshipers' gods as valid. However, once you leave the continent, opportunities present themselves for turning the genre upside down. Another kingdom on the other side of the world may have Tome of Battle warriors who wear insect masks, while another still is populated by small tribes of natives with psionic talents. That way you kinda preserve your sword and sorcery world, but people from foreign lands are foreign, and it always gives you the option to spring something new.

Matthew
2008-09-29, 08:18 PM
I'm fine with mixed genres, as long as I have no alternative expectations. Sixguns & Sorcery using Advanced Dungeons & Dragons? Yep, fine with me.

Erk
2008-09-29, 08:30 PM
Generally fine, and like anything it can be done very well or very poorly.

For example, techno-steam-fantasy is getting a little worn out, but Girl Genius (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/) pwns.

Mixing two completely disparate genres is, for me, a quick ticket to Win City as long as it's done all right. Some say sci-fi and western (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303461/), for example, are quite different genres (though I for one don't see how they're that far apart in the first place).

I'd like to see someone make a good 18th century swashbuckling bodice ripper crossover with vikings.

"Ulga sighed deeply, thinking of her manly Thor, far at sea, raping and pillaging. If only Thor could come home sooner, to her waiting bosom. Alas, she would wait, and wait again. Soon enough she'd be reunited with her hero, and surely he'd bring gifts; Ulga pondered how nice it would be to have another skull for the mantlepiece."

Ahem. I'd best go now.

Thant
2008-09-29, 08:43 PM
Homebrew aside, my favorite settings are never in the line with standard postulates of the frp genre (Tolkien and the like):smallyuk: Although LotR-type universes are generally dark and have good storytelling, they are somewhat all the same - find/destroy artifact X to contain/destroy evil Y something that is trying to conquer/(guess what?) destroy the rest of the world. I much more favor true apocalyptic/noirish worlds for their drama/despair/psycho elements (like Fallout, Dark Sun, Arcanum (steampunk overall), Planescape etc.), and like to GM/role play in them. Weird worlds like world of Elrick of Melnibone or interesting sf/fantasy hybrids like Spelljammer are always welcomed guests.

Hunter Noventa
2008-09-29, 09:32 PM
My group has done some strange genre mixing. Like the Rifts game where we were piloting Omnigears basically, and ended up with dueling Macross fortresses over the Splynn Dimensional Market.

Or the Rifts game where were part of a macross colony fleet, and nearly the entire crew was made up of cameos from other anime and video games. WHen your bridge crew is the SOS Brigade...well...you're in trougble. Sadly Haruhi didn't get to use the power of rock against our enemies.

Both of those games were an absolute blast. And this may have been slightly off-topic.

Jayabalard
2008-09-29, 09:43 PM
So, what's your opinion?
What should the default D&D setting be like?
What is your D&D setting do you usually play in, and how open are you to mixing it with other genres?1. I prefer the Default D&D setting to be a pretty straight fantasy with a few absurd things thrown in (a la 1e AD&D)
2. I usually prefer not to mix in other genre's with D&D, but if we're talking more generally I don't see anything wrong with it... the ease that you can do that in GURPS is one of the reasons that I like GURPS so much. Rifts is another good one if you're going to just do a genre mash-up (though you generally have to be willing to throw game balance out with the bath water)

Ravens_cry
2008-09-29, 09:48 PM
If it is done well. The trouble is, it is rarely done well.

valadil
2008-09-29, 10:37 PM
It can work. If you're doing it for a reason I think it can turn out cool. If you're doing it just for the hell of it, your game will end up a diluted genre-less mess.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2008-09-29, 10:56 PM
Generally speaking prototypic examples of genre are intellectually interesting but not viscerally involving. The things I have the most fun with- shows, video games, RPGs- tend to be synthesis-based.

Thesis can be good, antithesis can be good, synthesis can be better. Mix genres at will, and see what happens. Good or bad, you created something and you'll know for next time.

AstralFire
2008-09-29, 10:56 PM
I've got to echo valadil here - if you're going into it with some sort of purpose and an idea of how it all ties together, it's great, if somewhat campy at times. If it's just "all of a sudden, MEXICAN BANDITS ON RAPTORS APPEAR!" then... no.

Unless you're doing a Dr. McNinja campaign in which the theme is "how silly can this get".

Kaihaku
2008-09-29, 11:04 PM
Like most things, I don't think it's a question of a 'good idea, bad idea, or meh?' as much as it's a question of how well you carry out the idea. Blended genres can be utter garbage and they can be utterly amazing. Quality is the question.

Also, valadil touches on something very true. Make everything coherent to the world or it's just going to be a meaningless mess.

Ryusacerdos
2008-09-29, 11:21 PM
The only good mixed genre RPG game I can think of right now is the Star Ocean series.

Sci-Fi universe but the games take place mostly on high fantasy based non-warp planets.

Gralamin
2008-09-29, 11:47 PM
Do your players know what they signed up for? Yes? Go wild. Mixing genres only work if the players expect it, or you slowly change the genre over the course of many sessions until it completely changes.

Lert, A.
2008-09-30, 12:03 AM
Do it all the time. Not a problem.

Want magic and spaceships. It doesn't have to be Dragonstar, you can do what you want.

Laser cannons in the wild west. Done it. Worked great.

All you have to do is have players who are so constrained by their ideas of what a fantasy game is, and having a setting that makes the players want to get involved. This takes work, but it is worth doing.

Yes, we played a Dr.McNinja game. A lot easier than Schlock Mercenary, let me tell you.

Superglucose
2008-09-30, 01:18 AM
Full Metal Alchemist + Star Wars. Sounds lame?

Imagine that half of saber-dueling is parries and thrusts, and the other half is using the blade to dig an array into the floor, so you can stomp on it and use alchemy to own your enemy.

bosssmiley
2008-09-30, 04:04 AM
*Looks up from his copy of "Fading Suns" (Dumas meets Cthulhu in spaaaaaace!)*

Sorry, what was the question? :smallwink:

YPU
2008-09-30, 04:20 AM
My players get bored somewhat easy I suppose. Tough high fantasy LotR like is fine with them, we would use gurps for it and go the whole realistic way.
Buy generally my players prefer cool over consistency. We don’t get to play often enough anyway so they prefer to fight something cool and new rather then another hob-goblin. Even if the gobs make more sense.

Thane of Fife
2008-09-30, 05:58 AM
Some say sci-fi and western, for example, are quite different genres (though I for one don't see how they're that far apart in the first place).


I think that this was the link you meant to use (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3F5dot4pk) :smallbiggrin:

But as long as I'm not expecting something different, I could go for anything. Actually, a bit of surprise wouldn't be too bad.

Neon Knight
2008-09-30, 06:16 AM
I mix genres all the time. For me, the rule of cool can be very persuasive. Not all powerful, necessarily, just very persuasive.

Kaihaku
2008-09-30, 06:19 AM
What do you get when you mix...

Fantasy + Horror?
Fantasy + Mystery?
Fantasy + Science Fiction?
Fantasy + Western?
...Science Fiction + Fantasy + Western = Star Wars?

Saph
2008-09-30, 06:50 AM
If you want a beer-and-pretzels style game where nobody's taking it seriously, mix 'em all together and go for it. Ditto for one-shots.

If you want a long-running campaign where the players do take it seriously, though . . . it's going to be more difficult. The problem with mixing genres is it throws off the player's expectations. If you genuinely have no idea what the world you're in is like, it's hard to get involved with your character.

The best approach is usually to find an established setting that has what you need, and tweak it. (E.g., you want a D&D-style fantasy world with lots of monsters that also has laser swords? Try Phantasy Star.)

- Saph

DigoDragon
2008-09-30, 07:21 AM
I've successfully mixed a few genres like Sci-fi and western, or my favorite- post-apocalypse and fantasy so it's certainly doable. Seems to be the consensus from the posts above that mixing isn't a bad thing if you put some effort into the mechanics to make it work. :smallsmile:

Ascension
2008-09-30, 08:03 AM
I think that this was the link you meant to use (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3F5dot4pk) :smallbiggrin:

"On second thought, let's not go there. It is a silly place." :smallbiggrin:

sonofzeal
2008-09-30, 11:10 AM
Fantasy + Horror?
Imagine "Neverending Story" where the Nothing starts invading the real world.

Fantasy + Mystery?
Pretty much any of the Night Watch books by Terry Pratchett.

Fantasy + Science Fiction?
Anything where there's Ewoks on screen.

Fantasy + Western?
I got nothing...

...Science Fiction + Fantasy + Western = Star Wars?
Mmm.... Han Solo excepted, Star Wars seriously lacks in the "cowboy" front. Trigun might fit better; the plot arc is classic fantasy, but the setting is very obviously western/space.

valadil
2008-09-30, 11:14 AM
Fantasy + Western?
I got nothing...


Dark Tower? At least it started out that way. Certain parts were a bit more post apocalyptic, but the original idea was something like The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly done over the epic scope of LotR.

Jayabalard
2008-09-30, 12:50 PM
fantasy + western is stuff like Brisco County Jr, Wild Wild West

Mix in horror as well and you get Deadlands

Fantasy + mystery can also give you urban fantasy like Dresden.


If you want a long-running campaign where the players do take it seriously, though . . . it's going to be more difficult. The problem with mixing genres is it throws off the player's expectations. If you genuinely have no idea what the world you're in is like, it's hard to get involved with your character. In my opinion, there are a couple of campaigns that work well for this:

Soft sci fi space traveling game: Travel around the galaxy, and it's ok it you jump from genre to genre as long as it's a different planet.
Time Travel/Alternate universe travel; similar to the above, but the genre's are separated out as different times, or different universes.
Superheroes: you can mix anything and call it super heroes.

Starbuck_II
2008-09-30, 01:36 PM
Fantasy + Western?
I got nothing...

...Science Fiction + Fantasy + Western = Star Wars?
Mmm.... Han Solo excepted, Star Wars seriously lacks in the "cowboy" front. Trigun might fit better; the plot arc is classic fantasy, but the setting is very obviously western/space.

I personally thought Stars was more Western + Fantasy than Science Fiction.

I mean, sure the backgound has ships and stuff, but they aren't in forefront in my mind. Blasters =guns.

AstralFire
2008-09-30, 03:13 PM
I personally thought Stars was more Western + Fantasy than Science Fiction.

I mean, sure the backgound has ships and stuff, but they aren't in forefront in my mind. Blasters =guns.

A New Hope was fairly balanced in this regard, but as the movies progress, they feel less Western - Western is certainly one of the last things I ascribe to Return of the Jedi or the PT.

Beleriphon
2008-09-30, 03:56 PM
What do you get when you mix...

Fantasy + Horror?
Fantasy + Mystery?
Fantasy + Science Fiction?
Fantasy + Western?
...Science Fiction + Fantasy + Western = Star Wars?

Fantasy + Horror = Ravenloft, Dracula
Fantasy + Mystery = Not sure....
Fantasy + Sci Fi = Star Wars (more than western elements)
Fantasy + Western = Dead Lands