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Da Beast
2008-10-06, 12:40 PM
Judging by the section in Races and Classes about the 4e druid focusing on wildshape and fact that we now have the barbarian as a primal striker I'd guess defender, though I'm hoping for controller. Has anything been released since Races and classes?

Tadanori Oyama
2008-10-06, 12:44 PM
The game needs another controller. With the attempt to focus class roles (while allowing for in-class variants) I can see Druids being Controllers with spells.

That's just my hope, no idea what'll actually end up happening.

bosssmiley
2008-10-06, 12:47 PM
+1 for divine controller. Walls, terrain effects, fey glamours...

AKA_Bait
2008-10-06, 12:48 PM
Well, I think Primal Controller, but otherwise I agree. I think there is a possiblity of Primal Leader with a heavy empasis on the wildshape ability and few if any spells though.

Charity
2008-10-06, 12:56 PM
They were originally talking about a true hybrid class, though they may have abandoned that for balance reasons...

Orzel
2008-10-06, 05:14 PM
They were originally talking about a true hybrid class, though they may have abandoned that for balance reasons...

By the way the Barabarian works I could see it still happening.

Their at-wills and encounter powers could be controller powers. Lightning bolts and vine snares.

Then they'd shapeshift via their striker like dailly forms and use an at will that only works in when shifted.

Or vice versa.

Random NPC
2008-10-06, 05:30 PM
Controller/Leaders, yo!

Da Beast
2008-10-06, 05:37 PM
I'm having trouble envisioning how a wildshape focused druid class would play. Would wildshape be an at will evocation, a class feature or maybe something like the barbarian rages that give ongoing bonuses? Maybe their at will and encounter powers could function like wildshape feats in 3.5 where you have some minor change granting a smaller bonus than an outright shift.

Jayabalard
2008-10-06, 05:41 PM
I find it likely that most of these classes will exist... it's just a coin flip as to which one is going to be called the "Druid"

AKA_Bait
2008-10-06, 05:42 PM
I'm having trouble envisioning how a wildshape focused druid class would play. Would wildshape be an at will evocation, a class feature or maybe something like the barbarian rages that give ongoing bonuses? Maybe their at will and encounter powers could function like wildshape feats in 3.5 where you have some minor change granting a smaller bonus than an outright shift.

I picture them being something like stances granting particular bonuses. Dailes might grant a suite of additional at will or encounter attacks. I dunno how that would balance, but it's what occurs to me.


I find it likely that most of these classes will exist... it's just a coin flip as to which one is going to be called the "Druid"

That too.

Da Beast
2008-10-06, 06:08 PM
I'd put my money on the druid turning into a big animal and filling the defender roll and some sort of shaman class filling controller or leader. Maybe bard will become the primal leader.

AKA_Bait
2008-10-06, 06:15 PM
I'd put my money on the druid turning into a big animal and filling the defender roll and some sort of shaman class filling controller or leader.

I kinda see a Shaman being in the leader role and the Druid in the controller role. Some other thing I suspect will inherit the 'turns into something that eats your face' mantle.


Maybe bard will become the primal leader.

I would have liked to see that but I'm pretty sure they already said someplace that Bards are going to be Arcane Leaders.

RebelRogue
2008-10-06, 06:26 PM
I would have liked to see that but I'm pretty sure they already said someplace that Bards are going to be Arcane Leaders.
My money is on Arcane Leader. Is there a list of the classes that are to be in PHB2? There's going to be Primal and Ki Power Sources, right? Any other new ones? Elemental?

Saph
2008-10-06, 06:38 PM
To be honest, I'm kind of dreading the release of the 4e druid. Druid is my favourite class in 3.5, and I've got a nasty feeling the 4e revamp is going to maim it beyond recognition.

In 3.5, Druids have three iconic class features:

a) Wild Shape
b) Animal Companion
c) Animal Summoning

I have the suspicion that 4e is going to either completely eliminate or hopelessly nerf all three of those (e.g. you can wildshape, but only into a very limited set of forms and only for 5 minutes per day), leaving the druid without what made it so much fun in the first place.

But maybe I'm wrong and by next year the designers will ease up on the nerf-bat and start to reintroduce versatile abilities again. I hope so.

- Saph

Charity
2008-10-06, 07:18 PM
Well they are going to have to tamp down the druid's power level a bit Saph, you know that they were OTT powerful in 3.5, they can't keep it all...

I'm optomistic to be honest... but thats just me.

Shhhh!
2008-10-06, 07:26 PM
Words
Well, They've already said that the ranger is getting a beastmaster style in the martial power book, and it wouldn't very well be a druid without shapeshifting of some form, however, I don't know of any summoning spells in 4ED so far. They may be the first to get them, But I think it's more likely they'll get a Pick either an animal companion, or shapeshifting type deal, much like the swordmage aegis, or the ranger combat styles, something that keep it from being...Gasp Too versatile, without removing the bits that make it druid in the first place. Just guessing though.

Saph
2008-10-06, 07:27 PM
Well they are going to have to tamp down the druid's power level a bit Saph, you know that they were OTT powerful in 3.5, they can't keep it all...

Yeah, but they were also crazy fun. No point in being balanced if it's not interesting to play.

Oh well, if they do nerf it too badly I can just stick to 3.5 I guess.

- Saph

DM Raven
2008-10-06, 07:30 PM
I would guess leader with heavy controller aspects. Since the druid could use a lot of healing and buff abilities in the previous editions, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept that theme. However the druid also had a lot of controller aspects to it in previous editions...so I would guess the druid a leader with heavy controller aspects.

Either that or the other direction...a controller with heavy leader aspects.

And yes, I demand druid nerfs. No way the wizard can get the nerf hammer and let the druid get away untouched. You're going down hippie!

RebelRogue
2008-10-06, 07:33 PM
Well, They've already said that the ranger is getting a beastmaster style in the martial power book, and it wouldn't very well be a druid without shapeshifting of some form, however, I don't know of any summoning spells in 4ED so far.
I was thinking that they might be Daily powers sort of similar to the Flaming Sphere spell: you summon an animal into existence and use actions to direct it around and attack. The ability to shift into a (probably specific) form would also work well as a Daily Stance power. That way you choose between the two when picking Daily powers.

Charity
2008-10-06, 07:35 PM
Yeah, but they were also crazy fun. No point in being balanced if it's not interesting to play.

Oh well, if they do nerf it too badly I can just stick to 3.5 I guess.

- Saph

They just spread the fun over a few more classes in 4e, I think you'll still get to give folk big grizzly bear hugs Saph.
My guess is a controller/striker for our old wooden pal, but I've been known to have been wrong before ... yeah I know every time

Oracle_Hunter
2008-10-06, 07:54 PM
Personally, I've been intrigued with the 4e Barbarian mechanic - it seems like WotC may be in for the Stance-style mechanics.

In that case, it's quite possible that Druids will get Dailies that Shift them into some Animal Form (with special powers and such) until another Shift power is used, or the end of the Encounter. Perhaps that is what all Druid Utilities will be, actually, with Encounter and Daily attacks reflecting Druid Nature Control.

But yeah, Primal Controller/Striker is what I'm seeing - no way they'll bother with Divine if the description of the Primal Source in the Barbarian entry is accurate.

Ealstan
2008-10-06, 09:51 PM
From what I can tell the Druid was originally a hybrid Striker / Controller ( A true hybrid, not like paladin which is MAIN CLASS / little splash of secondary class . The problem they ran into was that hybrid classes don't work; the hybrid could either switch gears and be either a striker or a controller, thus outclassing all classes of either role, or it could dabble and be too unfocused to contribute to the party in either role. So they decided to ditch one of the roles. I'm gonna say the Druid is gonna be a controller, cuz that's what I want to see. But striker would be cool as well I guess.

Zeful
2008-10-06, 10:18 PM
From what I can tell the Druid was originally a hybrid Striker / Controller ( A true hybrid, not like paladin which is MAIN CLASS / little splash of secondary class . The problem they ran into was that hybrid classes don't work; the hybrid could either switch gears and be either a striker or a controller, thus outclassing all classes of either role, or it could dabble and be too unfocused to contribute to the party in either role. So they decided to ditch one of the roles. I'm gonna say the Druid is gonna be a controller, cuz that's what I want to see. But striker would be cool as well I guess.

Actually with the way class design in 4e a hybrid could easily have a half set of striker options as well as a half set of controller options. It would be up to the player to pick whichever abilities he wanted, but he couldn't be both at once.

For example if you wanted to play our theoretical hybrid Druid as a shapechanging striker, you would pick up shifting powers which could have a line that says: "you can only use powers with the 'Shifting' keyword after activating this power." Which means the abilities geared toward control are unusable while striking. And to prevent the other crossover the striker powers would mostly be melee range or work 1 to 2 squares away, while the controllers are 10+ squares, making it not a good idea to be in the main combat while controllering.

skywalker
2008-10-06, 10:47 PM
I kinda see a Shaman being in the leader role and the Druid in the controller role. Some other thing I suspect will inherit the 'turns into something that eats your face' mantle.

I have a lot of respect for you and your wisdom around these forums so please don't take this as disrespect, I'm in the middle of staying up all night to reset my sleep schedule and I can't make it any more flowery:

Races and Classes completely contradicts you. The article in that book says that when they looked at what was iconic about druids, their number 1 iconic feature was wildshaping. I know I quoted AKA_Bait but I'm of course directing this at everyone. Druids are going to be wildshapers, and I think the idea that wildshape will work similarly to rage is a good one, because so far, power sources in 4e work similarly. For instance, the paladin and cleric have different roles but similar powers that tend to grant similar things, only in different amounts or ways. Divine powers tend to grant allies HP, saves, etc, whereas martial powers(with the exception of warlord powers) tend to shift other characters and have effects on enemies. Arcane powers tend to affect multiple characters at once, as well as having similar mechanics across classes/roles. I think Primal powers will work the same way.

But that's just my two cp. I apologize if I was blunt, but I think what I have to say is worth reading(and me saying) regardless.

Valdar
2008-10-06, 10:59 PM
Add a "me too" to Striker with a side of Controller from the description in Races and Classes.

Just noticed Barbarian is in playtest, and will be a Striker, so maybe Druid is being shifted off that role? There are two Martial strikers, so no reason why there couldn't be two Primal ones, though.

The cover art for PHB2 is up on Wizards' site, and there's a tagline "Arcane, Divine, and Primal classes". So, no Ki or Monk this time around...

Mearls has already described Bard as Arcane Leader, so that's very likely. Sorcerer may be in there as well.

From what I've heard, four Primal classes is likely (Druid and Barbarian, plus Shaman and Witch, or whatever the focus groups like for names for the last two), plus two Arcane (Sorcerer, Bard), and two Divine (new stuff probably). Another interview (forgot source) stated that PHB2 will be mostly new stuff, so there will possibly be only two other classes from 3e core in there (if they drop one of those, it will probably be Sorcerer, since the reason for the 3e Sorcerer's existence is gone with the new magic system...)

skywalker
2008-10-06, 11:17 PM
Add a "me too" to Striker with a side of Controller from the description in Races and Classes.

Just noticed Barbarian is in playtest, and will be a Striker, so maybe Druid is being shifted off that role? There are two Martial strikers, so no reason why there couldn't be two Primal ones, though.

The cover art for PHB2 is up on Wizards' site, and there's a tagline "Arcane, Divine, and Primal classes". So, no Ki or Monk this time around...

Mearls has already described Bard as Arcane Leader, so that's very likely. Sorcerer may be in there as well.

From what I've heard, four Primal classes is likely (Druid and Barbarian, plus Shaman and Witch, or whatever the focus groups like for names for the last two), plus two Arcane (Sorcerer, Bard), and two Divine (new stuff probably). Another interview (forgot source) stated that PHB2 will be mostly new stuff, so there will possibly be only two other classes from 3e core in there (if they drop one of those, it will probably be Sorcerer, since the reason for the 3e Sorcerer's existence is gone with the new magic system...)

What do you suppose an arcane sorcerer's role would be?

I've seen lots of rumors that sorcerer will actually be part of the "elemental" power group, altho I'm not sure how many other classes they could come up with for that... Then again, the way some of the fluff is looking for the barbarian, maybe elemental got rolled into primal?

Da Beast
2008-10-06, 11:49 PM
Add a "me too" to Striker with a side of Controller from the description in Races and Classes.

Just noticed Barbarian is in playtest, and will be a Striker, so maybe Druid is being shifted off that role? There are two Martial strikers, so no reason why there couldn't be two Primal ones, though.

The cover art for PHB2 is up on Wizards' site, and there's a tagline "Arcane, Divine, and Primal classes". So, no Ki or Monk this time around...

Mearls has already described Bard as Arcane Leader, so that's very likely. Sorcerer may be in there as well.

From what I've heard, four Primal classes is likely (Druid and Barbarian, plus Shaman and Witch, or whatever the focus groups like for names for the last two), plus two Arcane (Sorcerer, Bard), and two Divine (new stuff probably). Another interview (forgot source) stated that PHB2 will be mostly new stuff, so there will possibly be only two other classes from 3e core in there (if they drop one of those, it will probably be Sorcerer, since the reason for the 3e Sorcerer's existence is gone with the new magic system...)

Where did you find these interviews? Races and classes said something about Sorcerers having an elemental source and being focused around somesort of aura affects iirc. And I may be wrong, but wasn't there some mention of bards now being divine characters?

ImperiousLeader
2008-10-07, 12:38 AM
I'm hoping the Druid will remain a more hybrid-esque class, but I do tend to think of them as Controllers. Plus, there's not many other slots for them, I've never seen them as Defenders, and Striker or Leader will step on the other two known Primal classes, the Barbarian and the Shaman.

Really, as long as they've got wildshaping and some neat nature spells, I'll probably be happy.

BardicDuelist
2008-10-07, 12:48 AM
I'm hoping the Druid will remain a more hybrid-esque class, but I do tend to think of them as Controllers. Plus, there's not many other slots for them, I've never seen them as Defenders, and Striker or Leader will step on the other two known Primal classes, the Barbarian and the Shaman.

Really, as long as they've got wildshaping and some neat nature spells, I'll probably be happy.

Either the Druid or the Shaman will be a controller, the other will be a leader. It's a toss up there. I imagine that the mysterious "w" class will be something like "Warden" which will end up as a primal defender.

Edea
2008-10-07, 12:57 AM
Actually, I get the sinking feeling that the Druid will be a Primal Striker, unless Races and Classes is full of bunk.

Artanis
2008-10-07, 12:58 AM
My money is on Arcane Leader. Is there a list of the classes that are to be in PHB2? There's going to be Primal and Ki Power Sources, right? Any other new ones? Elemental?
PHB page 54 has list that says "future power sources include" Primal, Elemental, Ki, Psionic, and Shadow. It also mentions the Monk as using Ki, the Psion as using Psionic, and the Druid and Barbarian (as we know now) as using Primal.


As for Elemental and the Sorcerer, the only info I've heard one way or the other was from WAY the hell back when they were thinking about doing something elemental-ish with the Sorcerer. But then, I don't have Races and Classes. So any updated info would be appreciated :smallsmile:

erikun
2008-10-07, 01:35 AM
Sorry, but while Sorcerers were mentioned in the back of Races & Classes, there was no mention of a power source (Elemental or otherwise). The flavor text they provide practically screams "Wild Mage", though.

Sebastian
2008-10-07, 02:41 AM
Well, They've already said that the ranger is getting a beastmaster style in the martial power book, and it wouldn't very well be a druid without shapeshifting of some form, however, I don't know of any summoning spells in 4ED so far.

The only two kinda-summoning things I remember from 4e are the bag of tricks and the figurine of wondrous power, which, mechanically speaking, kinda sucks.

I could be wrong but maybe the artificer had something like it, too, but I can't really remember.

I can't honestly see how they could do summoning within the 4e rulesframe without making it sucks.

skywalker
2008-10-07, 04:01 AM
Summoning could work akin to the Guardian of Light(I think it's called), and Flaming Sphere(among others) powers. You can have your summon attack as a standard action, move it as a move action, etc. I suppose this would make summoning suck as opposed to 3.5.

I'm still surprised no-one else sees the druid as a primal defender. From what Races and Classes said(and it was pretty accurate about the PHB1 material), they're distilling the druid down to wild-shape, and if I'm not mistaken they specifically mention turning into a bear. This is what makes me believe that the druid of 4e won't have summons, perhaps not even spell like powers, and I would be almost certain no healing, etc. Which I think cuts off the leader role for sure. I think a summoner could quite possibly be considered a controller but, as I mentioned, I think they're trying to get away from druids being seen as summoners. They could be strikers, but the mechanic would be awfully similar to the barbarian, because the barbarian already fights like an animal(or man in animal shape) would fight. Big rush, big damage, little AC. Even tho there are two martial strikers in the PHB, they both have very different mechanics and philosophies. This is my reasoning behind calling the druid a defender, primarily because of process of elimination.

Are there any rumors of more roles coming along? Because the druid could have a completely new role altogether...

Ealstan
2008-10-07, 11:08 AM
Are there any rumors of more roles coming along? Because the druid could have a completely new role altogether...

Hmm. I think I remember something in a podcast regarding that, but I could be wrong. I don't think there will be more roles, though. What other roles are there? The ones we have pretty well cover all the bases, don't you think?

I do like this 'Druids as Defender' angle. I haven't really given it much thought (cuz I want a controller-y druid), but it definitely makes sense with this talk of distilling wild shape. I could get behind a druid that turns into a big bear (or tree) and grabs up enemies in a big hug. Godless killing machines, those bears: http://www.wikiality.com/Bears

Da Beast
2008-10-07, 11:21 AM
I'm hoping the Druid will remain a more hybrid-esque class, but I do tend to think of them as Controllers. Plus, there's not many other slots for them, I've never seen them as Defenders, and Striker or Leader will step on the other two known Primal classes, the Barbarian and the Shaman.

Really, as long as they've got wildshaping and some neat nature spells, I'll probably be happy.

In 3.5 Druids are make great grapplers which is one of the few ways to actually lock down an enemy. Could be a basis for defender.

Grynning
2008-10-07, 12:16 PM
In 3.5 Druids are make great grapplers which is one of the few ways to actually lock down an enemy. Could be a basis for defender.

OK, Sum durids is bare


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/rainbow_dragon/Warcraft/almobear1.jpg


Tehm whos bare durids, can B 4 tank


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/rainbow_dragon/Warcraft/m1a1tankahi.jpg


ONLY DURID DONT HAF SUM PEEPS IN THE HEAD AND A GUNZ LOL!

Man, sum bare druids can maek sum peeps poop in feer bc/ tehms so storng.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/rainbow_dragon/Warcraft/BARESCARE.jpg


Bare druids is not so good at uh moonfare spam but its OK b/c a bare durid haf many armors & when a thing hits durid, maybe thing gets borken hand LOL!

Bare durids is 4 funs when u can charje & stun & haf sum armors lol.

Zeful
2008-10-07, 01:09 PM
PHB page 54 has list that says "future power sources include" Primal, Elemental, Ki, Psionic, and Shadow. It also mentions the Monk as using Ki, the Psion as using Psionic, and the Druid and Barbarian (as we know now) as using Primal.


As for Elemental and the Sorcerer, the only info I've heard one way or the other was from WAY the hell back when they were thinking about doing something elemental-ish with the Sorcerer. But then, I don't have Races and Classes. So any updated info would be appreciated :smallsmile:
Ask and ye shall recieve

Second interesting tidbit: One of the really fun things I've had a chance to play with in the last couple of weeks is a little bit of development assistance on the Player's Handbook II. The part that I got to get my hands dirty on is the sorcerer--an old friend, since I created the first draft of the sorcerer back in the early days of my work on 3rd Edition. The 3rd Edition sorcerer was spurred by the simple observation that an enormous hunk of valuable real estate in the Player's Handbook was devoted to the support of a single class--the wizard. I asked the question, "Is there some other way we can utilize all these spells?" That and the idea of cast-on-the-fly from a limited list was enough to get the sorcerer into the book, and it became one of the most popular innovations of the 3rd Edition game. In 4th Edition, we don't want to design classes for this sort of reason anymore; since every class is in effect a spellcaster, we don't want to see a 99% overlap of the power lists between two classes. That mean taking the sorcerer back to the broad story concepts (concepts that evolved later in the sorcerer's original 3e design, since the sorcerer began with mechanics in 3e) and thinking hard about what it *could* be and how it could occupy the same role and power source as the wizard but be a different class. I think we've got some great ideas cooking up on that score. (Hint: It might involve some wild magery.

Here is the Link. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1031661)

AKA_Bait
2008-10-07, 01:37 PM
I have a lot of respect for you and your wisdom around these forums so please don't take this as disrespect, I'm in the middle of staying up all night to reset my sleep schedule and I can't make it any more flowery:

Aww. No worries man. It's a rare moment when I take someone disagreeing with me personally. Even then, it's usually about my mother. :smallwink:


Races and Classes completely contradicts you. The article in that book says that when they looked at what was iconic about druids, their number 1 iconic feature was wildshaping.

I know. I just don't have a ton of faith that they will stay true to the things they set out in the preview books. I think they have already departed from things they said there, but I'm too swamped at work to look it up right now.

Personally, I don't really care if they do or don't but I've always seen Druids more in the leader/controller role and I have trouble picturing a Druid as a defender or striker, which, to my mind, they would have to be in order to be the wildshaping class.


Either the Druid or the Shaman will be a controller, the other will be a leader. It's a toss up there. I imagine that the mysterious "w" class will be something like "Warden" which will end up as a primal defender.

That makes a ton of sense to me.

Crow
2008-10-07, 01:42 PM
In 4th Edition, we don't want to design classes for this sort of reason anymore; since every class is in effect a spellcaster, we don't want to see a 99% overlap of the power lists between two classes.

Huh??? Wasn't expecting that.

Zeful
2008-10-07, 01:46 PM
Huh??? Wasn't expecting that.

It's how the power system is set up, every class has abilities that in previous editions were categorized as spellcasting. What's so shocking about them admitting to this?:smallconfused:

Starsinger
2008-10-07, 01:49 PM
OK, Sum durids is bare

DURIDS IS HARD, & BUT STRONG

SUM PEEPLE THINK DURIDS IS CANT BE BARE AND CAN ONLY HEEL AND THEM DOSENT

NO THEY IS ALWAYS CAN SAY:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/rainbow_dragon/Warcraft/bareattack.jpg

:smalltongue:


Originally Posted by WotC guy
In 4th Edition, we don't want to design classes for this sort of reason anymore; since every class is in effect a spellcaster, we don't want to see a 99% overlap of the power lists between two classes.

Yes... just like how in JRPGs where fighter types have abilities beyond

Attack
Defend
Item

all characters are spell casters. Way to fuel and of course become one of the "4e makes everyone a caster!" idiots, WotC guy.

Artanis
2008-10-07, 02:08 PM
Ask and ye shall recieve


Here is the Link. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1031661)
Many thanks :smallsmile:



Huh??? Wasn't expecting that.
What, you hadn't noticed that in ToB? Considering that ToB was supposed to be a bit of a test of what was to come, I'm shocked that you didn't notice something like this.

Crow
2008-10-07, 02:21 PM
What, you hadn't noticed that in ToB? Considering that ToB was supposed to be a bit of a test of what was to come, I'm shocked that you didn't notice something like this.

I wasn't expecting the developer to come right out and say it.

LotharBot
2008-10-07, 02:29 PM
What, you hadn't noticed that in ToB? Considering that ToB was supposed to be a bit of a test of what was to come, I'm shocked that you didn't notice something like this.

It's a change I like -- every class is on the same power curve. No more of this "I level up and get a new set of spells, which I can use to one-shot bad guys in 9 new ways. You level up and get +1 BAB, which you can turn into +3 damage with leap attack. And that other guy gets another sneak attack die, but another 10% of our enemies are immune to sneak attack."

It means you can now focus on playing an interesting concept without worrying about being too weak or too strong in relation to the rest of the party. No more classes completely shadowed by single features of other classes, and no more classes with significantly broader options than others.

-----

As for the Druid: I'm guessing primal defender. Daily powers centered around wild shape to allow for tanking, at will / encounter powers based on elemental damage or "grasping vines"/difficult terrain effects. Should be a little bit of controller-like power, but fundamentally, wild shape is either defender or striker, and the barbarian already gives us our fourth striker.

Starsinger
2008-10-07, 02:31 PM
Primal Defender/Striker to me, I'm seeing the caster aspects of the druid going to say Spirit Shaman

chronoplasm
2008-10-07, 04:34 PM
I'm actually hoping that the mysterious "W" class will be a Witchdoctor filling the primal leader role with Shaman filling the primal controller role and Druid filling the primal defender role.
I see the caster aspects of the Druid mostly going to the Shaman while the healing and animal companion summoning would mostly go to the Witchdoctor leaving the Druid to concentrate on Wildshaping.

Mr.Bookworm
2008-10-07, 05:02 PM
Yeah, I see the Druid being a Defender/Controller.

Plant control and maybe a bit of summoning would make sense, and would fit quite nicely into a minor-Controller type role.

Defender, of course, would be filled up by Wildshape, which makes sense in the context of Barbarian rages. I could see some encounter powers that only transform part of your body, though. A utility evocation (apparently, that's what primal powers will be called) that gives you wings, for example, or one that gives you bear claws.'

Edea
2008-10-07, 05:08 PM
I'm actually hoping that the mysterious "W" class will be a Witchdoctor filling the primal leader role with Shaman filling the primal controller role and Druid filling the primal defender role.
I see the caster aspects of the Druid mostly going to the Shaman while the healing and animal companion summoning would mostly go to the Witchdoctor leaving the Druid to concentrate on Wildshaping.

Just as long as it's not another 'War_____". Such as, say, Warshaper, or Warsoul, or Warblade, or Warweaver, or Warlock, or Warlord, or Warmaster, or Warjesuswhatiswrongwithyoupeople. Just say no to War.

Starsinger
2008-10-07, 06:10 PM
Just as long as it's not another 'War_____". Such as, say, Warshaper, or Warsoul, or Warblade, or Warweaver, or Warlock, or Warlord, or Warmaster, or Warjesuswhatiswrongwithyoupeople. Just say no to War.

War-Witch Doctor!

Edea
2008-10-07, 06:30 PM
Ah, yeah, forgot Warforged, since that's a race instead of a class. Also, I hope they do not use White (such as 'White Mage' o____________o).

AslanCross
2008-10-07, 06:30 PM
DURIDS IS HARD, & BUT STRONG

SUM PEEPLE THINK DURIDS IS CANT BE BARE AND CAN ONLY HEEL AND THEM DOSENT

NO THEY IS ALWAYS CAN SAY:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/rainbow_dragon/Warcraft/bareattack.jpg


LOL

I'm giggling uncontrollably now, but uh...care to explain?


Anyway, I would want the Druid to be a Primal Controller, but I don't know how they can make that unique enough to be different from the Wizard.

Starsinger
2008-10-07, 09:13 PM
LOL

I'm giggling uncontrollably now, but uh...care to explain?


Anyway, I would want the Druid to be a Primal Controller, but I don't know how they can make that unique enough to be different from the Wizard.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Alamo This will explain.

Da Beast
2008-10-07, 09:50 PM
OK, Sum durids is bare


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/rainbow_dragon/Warcraft/almobear1.jpg


Tehm whos bare durids, can B 4 tank


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/rainbow_dragon/Warcraft/m1a1tankahi.jpg


ONLY DURID DONT HAF SUM PEEPS IN THE HEAD AND A GUNZ LOL!

Man, sum bare druids can maek sum peeps poop in feer bc/ tehms so storng.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/rainbow_dragon/Warcraft/BARESCARE.jpg


Bare druids is not so good at uh moonfare spam but its OK b/c a bare durid haf many armors & when a thing hits durid, maybe thing gets borken hand LOL!

Bare durids is 4 funs when u can charje & stun & haf sum armors lol.

:smallconfused:I'm confused. Should I be mad or what?

Crow
2008-10-07, 09:59 PM
Primal Defender. Without a doubt. Wait and see. :smallwink:

JaxGaret
2008-10-07, 10:38 PM
I wasn't expecting the developer to come right out and say it.

They said as much right in the PHB:


Martial powers are not magic in the traditional sense, although some martial powers stand well beyond the capabilities of ordinary mortals.

"Not magic in the traditional sense" pretty much means magic in a non-traditional sense.

Asbestos
2008-10-07, 10:50 PM
The cover to the PHB II http://www.wizards.com/global/images/products_dndacc_9780786950164_lgpic.jpg

... seems to indicate some sort of summoner. Even though it says 'arcane, divine, and primal' those two definitely seem primal to me. Also, does this mean Goliaths will be in the PHB 2? (who said just classes would be in the PHB2? I mean, we get races and classes in the first one... last edition precedent be damned!)

Disclaimer: In no way is it for sure that the summoner-type class there IS a druid. Could be some sort to shaman.

Zeful
2008-10-07, 10:59 PM
Yeah there putting new races and classes in the PHbs.

Also 4e could do summons as one-off powers. Spend a turn to "summon" a creature for one round allowing it to attack before disappearing..

Diego
2008-10-08, 01:52 AM
The Barbarian "rage" mechanic could easiliy be reflavored to a summoning druid. Critter comes out and does big attack. After that, all other "attacks" are aided by the summoned creature until the summons/rage ends.

I'd be interested in seeing encounter Stance powers to accomodate shapeshifting.

Raz_Fox
2008-10-08, 06:55 AM
I personally think the druid will be Primal Controller or Primal Leader - I'm leaning towards controller, though. Summoning creatures for one turn and having them attack for you - AWESOME. :smallbiggrin:

ShaggyMarco
2008-10-08, 08:27 AM
There will be 6 races and 8 classes in PHB 2.

The confirmed races are: Gnome, Half-Orc, Goliath, and Shifter. I think, from what I've read, the other two will be brand-spanking-new.

The confirmed primal classes are: Barbarian (Primal Striker), Druid (Primal something), Shaman (Primal leader-different from spirit shaman), and probably 1 other Primal class.

The confirmed arcane classes are: Bard (Arcane Leader), and Sorcerer (all signs point towards Arcane Controller)

No specific Divine classes have been confirmed, but we know one will be focused on throwing around Flamestrike-style spells, so it will likely be a Divine Controller.

Shaman and the other two non-barbarian primal classes basically beat up the durid and divided up his stuff. The shaman got the healing and, I gather form some interview or podcast or another, the companion. One class gets the shapeshifting and be a defender, and the other gets the weather/nature control powers and will be a controller. I like the split.

One of these later classes will be the druid, and the other will get a new name...and it will either start with an I, a W, or a T. My money is on a Warden class. I doubt Witch because it has definite gender connotations. Witchdoctor is a little silly sounding, but I wouldn't put it past them. Warden (even though it is a War-) is my favorite.

Asbestos
2008-10-08, 09:09 AM
Where was this all confirmed? Is there a link you can put up?

ShaggyMarco
2008-10-08, 09:41 AM
I will try and remember to find the links where this all came from. I found most of them through EnWorld. That have a thread dedicated to confirmed info. Some of the other stuff I found on the Wizards boards, and the designer blogs/podcasts.

At work I can't access EnWorld or WotC's pages.

chronoplasm
2008-10-08, 09:55 AM
Also, there will be one class that starts with 'W' and one race that starts with 'De'.

ShaggyMarco
2008-10-08, 10:03 AM
Oh, right, I am pretty sure the De race, based on the FRPG, is the good equivalent of the Tiefling, called a Deva.

AKA_Bait
2008-10-08, 10:05 AM
Oh, right, I am pretty sure the De race, based on the FRPG, is the good equivalent of the Tiefling, called a Deva.

I could totally see that but... it just has lame written all over it.

Asbestos
2008-10-08, 10:45 AM
Also, there will be one class that starts with 'W' and one race that starts with 'De'.
Seriously, where is everyone divining this from?! Do I need to bust out a Ouija board and start lighting candles?

Yeah, probably a good guess that the "De" is for "Deva" which appears to be a 4e version of the Aasimar. I'm interested in seeing if they'll be as different from humans as the new Tieflings are, could be funky.

Also... I never guessed at what role(s) the druid would fill. I'm going to go with a shapeshifting defender with a minor in striker. Possibly a plant-based build that minors in controller/leader as well.

Charity
2008-10-08, 10:52 AM
Compiled info thread from Enworld.


So I've decided to try and gather links to sources of info about upcoming classes, races, and power sources, in the hopes that it'll help people (like me, for instance) stay caught up on all the info. I'm not repeating most info that was in Races & Classes, at least for now.

Ranadiel has a thread compiling all known info on upcoming products on WotC's boards here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1071100).

Known power sources are Martial, Arcane, Divine, Psionic, Shadow, Primal, Elemental, and Ki (PHB). These 8 "should take care of basically 90% of the classes they foresee making." (source (http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4149925&postcount=12))

Products

"New classes are mainly going to be introduced in PHBs" (source (http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4149925&postcount=12)).

Martial Power will not include any new classes.

The Manual of the Planes will include a playable race (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1040488)), done as a Monster Manual style writeup (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16037875&postcount=22)).

The Eberron Player's Guide will include the Artificer (source (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080702&authentic=true)).

D&D Insider
Dragon will reveal new classes and races in playtest mode before they appear in a future Player's Handbook (source (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20080507a&authentic=true)).

Rich Baker hopes to have Half-Orcs on DDi pretty soon after the Player's Handbook hits (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14765059&postcount=2101); note this is from January). He expects to see at least a couple of returning classes (Barbarian, Druid, Bard, Sorcerer) on DDi by this summer (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15706632&postcount=3603)); later he guesses we might see Bard or Druid by late summer or early fall (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=15867549#post15867549)).

A playtest version of the Barbarian is planned for the October issue of Dragon (source (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20080910)).

Wizards has plans to release an annual "Best of" compendium each year (source (http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4275416&postcount=90)).

Player's Handbook II
Amazon lists a release date of March 17th (source (http://www.amazon.com/Players-Handbook-D-Core-Rulebook/dp/0786950161/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214379738&sr=1-2)). The cover is available here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/9780786950164).

The Player's Handbook II covers Arcane, Divine, and Primal heroes (from the cover).

Barbarians, Bards, Druids, and Sorcerers are all confirmed for the PHB2 (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16211988&postcount=4607), source (http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4149925&postcount=12)).

Gnomes, Half-Orcs, Goliaths, and Shifters will be in the PHB2 (source (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?p=4405193#post4405193), source (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080814)), as well as one more race (source (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080815)) that starts with De (source (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=224709), source (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=230336)). (Probably Devas, as the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide mentions that is the new name for Aasimars.)

Wizards has no plans to reprint races and classes in the Forgotten Realm's Player's Guide in the PHB2 (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16202188&postcount=4591)).

Mike Mearls discusses the PHB2 on Gamer Radio Zero here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNtc4sJTdWc). Some highlights: "If there's stuff in the Player's Handbook that you're like, 'hey, where's this class', it's probably going to be in the Player's Handbook 2." Also new classes - a cleric that's a bit more on the spellcaster-y side, a striker that's a "deadly and dangerous" kind of guy. The druid (I think the 3.5 druid, but I'm not sure) is the main example of a primal character, and other primal classes do things that will remind you of the druid, but in their own unique way. He lists the first letters of each class in the PHB2 - D, B, B, W, I, T, S, S (after this correction (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=16110769#post16110769)). He also says "I think only three of those are classes that anyone has ever seen before. I think the other ones are all new classes, completely new to Dungeons & Dragons." However, when asked on his blog how many classes are new he says "Three are completely and utterly new. The rest are either classes or old concepts revisited." (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16119462&postcount=9))

One of the classes is a Leader class that "travels with a 'buddy' who keeps the party in tip-top shape" (source (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drcw/20080725a)).

This thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=16764026#post16764026) in Greg Bilsland's blog has pictures of a fight that include four PCs, all with PHB2 classes, and various vague hints.

Player's Handbook III
Psionic was the new power source highest on the list to make the PHB2, along with Primal, but they weren't sure if there was room (source (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220109)). Apparently there wasn't, so it seems like a good guess for PHB3.

Specific Classes

Artificer
The Artificer will be an Arcane Leader, and a playtest version is available here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080702&authentic=true). It will be in the Eberron Player's Guide.

Barbarian
A playtest version of the Barbarian is planned for the October issue of Dragon. The final version will be in the Player's Handbook II.

Bard
The Bard will be an Arcane Leader (source (http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3948158&postcount=53)). It will be in the Player's Handbook II.

Druid
Significant Druid info here (http://www.gleemax.com/Comms/Pages/Communities/BlogPost.aspx?blogpostid=52842&pagemode=2&blogid=2132). It will be in the Player's Handbook II.

Elementalist
Elementalists are mentioned in the Dwarf entry in Races & Classes alongside clerics, paladins, fighters, barbarians, rangers, and wizards, so they are likely a planned class.

Illusionist
Illusionists will have better Invisibility options than a Wizard (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13847710&postcount=503)). They may use the Shadow power source (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15727872&postcount=3676)).

Monk
The Monk uses the Ki power source (PHB). As of D&D XP 2008 they had not seriously started designing the class (source (http://www.critical-hits.com/2008/03/08/interview-andy-collins-and-scott-rouse-part-2/)).

Necromancer
Necromancers are mentioned here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13847710&postcount=503). They use the Shadow power source (Worlds & Monsters, and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15727872&postcount=3676)).

Shaman
The Shaman is mentioned as a class that fills the Leader role (source (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080421a)). Rich Baker mentions it "includes some neat mechanisms for dealing with nature spirits". (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15873273&postcount=3951))

Sorcerer
The Sorcerer will be in the Player's Handbook II.

It appears the Sorcerer will be an Arcane Controller. Rich Baker mentions thinking hard about "how it could occupy the same role and power source as the wizard but be a different class" (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1031661)), and Christopher Perkins mentions Sorcerer as a possibility for members of the Arcane Caste, along with Wizard and Warlock (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1032425)).

Significant info on the Sorcerer here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15934651&postcount=38). Sorcerers will get flying a little faster than wizards do (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=16076356#post16076356)).

Specific Races
Rich Baker gives his guesstimate of traction for ten races from Aarakocra to Catfolk here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14626953&postcount=1828).

Deva
This is the new name for the Aasimar (FRPG).

Gnome
Gnomes will be in the Player's Handbook II.

Goliath
Goliaths will probably be in 4e Forgotten Realms, possibly with a spot in Faerun earmarked for them so you'll know where they're from when they're released (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14632506&postcount=1848)). They will be in the Player's Handbook II.

Half-Giant
Half-Giants may be too similar to Goliaths (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14632506&postcount=1848)).

Half-Orc
Half-Orcs "imply a very ugly backstory"; they may try to change that (source (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14765059&postcount=2101)). They will be in the Player's Handbook II.

Shifter
Shifters will be in the Player's Handbook II.

Misc.

On The Tome (http://thetome.podbean.com/2008/03/22/the-tome-ep-52-andy-collins-4e/), Andy Collins was asked about upcoming Controllers, and said they're still in the early design phase of the next wave of classes, but mentioned the Sorcerer is possible for that role, and they're thinking about a Divine Controller and some form of Psionic Controller. (It's at about 23:25 in the podcast.) He also mentioned "you're not going to see the Cleric throwing around Flame Strike type powers really frequently", but "when we get around to a Divine Controller class he will probably have more of those type of effects". (At about 27:30.)


Keyword
xx

ShaggyMarco
2008-10-08, 12:09 PM
Nevermind. Charity posted the majority of the info I had seen, with links to most of the rest.

Though, I could have sworn the book was supposed to have 6, not 5 races. Maybe I was wrong (or it features both types of Shifters in the MM, and one source counte dthat as 2)

Asbestos
2008-10-08, 12:38 PM
Awesome, thanks Charity. Though when I clicked on the link for the Druid info it bumped me to the blog about Gleemax going away with no sign of the word Druid anywhere in the blog.

chronoplasm
2008-10-08, 08:52 PM
lol Deva and Goliath.

OK so... D, B, B, W, I, T, S, S
Druid (primal)
Barbarian (primal)
Bard (arcane)
W?
I?
T?
Sorcerer (arcane)
Shaman (primal)

So I'm betting that two of those letters will be divine classes and the last one will be a primal class (this book is supposed to have divine in it).

My speculation is...
Witchdoctor (primal)
Inquisitor (divine striker)
Theurge (divine controller) (the more spell-castery type cleric)

Zeful
2008-10-08, 09:46 PM
Current Speculation (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16658581&postcount=101) at the WoTC boards is:

Warden Primal Defender (no one really knows but likes the word).
Iquisitor Divine Striker (kinda like the Witch hunter in ToM)
Theruge Divine Controller (Man of the cloth type)

or
Witch(doctor) Primal Controller (with the Druid as a defender)

skywalker
2008-10-08, 11:19 PM
Charity, all gleemax links got borked, did they just go somewhere else or did Wizards just destroy a ka-zillion forums?(I hope the former but the latter would not surprise me)

Wow, look at that, I asked about nobody else thinking defender and left for 2 days, and everybody who agreed with me showed up.

I'm disappointed that sorcerers will be arcane controllers. I thought the idea was to move them further away from wizards. I know they say they have, I'm just not sure how far away they could go and remain in the same niche.

Zeful
2008-10-08, 11:23 PM
Yeah without another controller it's hard to imagine another one without it being, superficially, a wizard.

JaxGaret
2008-10-09, 12:54 AM
Inquisitor
Theurge

Just some spelling corrections.

Artanis
2008-10-09, 10:36 AM
Well, Rangers and Rogues have the same role and power source, and they're pretty different. So there's at least hope that they can do the same with Wizards and Sorcerers.

The Mormegil
2008-10-09, 11:23 AM
Barbarian - Primal Striker: Cool, they did it quite great. Playtesting is manatory, but anyway.
Druid - Primal Striker or Defender: I think they'll give the druid the shapeshifting and make it a striker or a defender. As the barbarian, they will name their dailies "Shapeshifts" and have their at-will attacks be enhanced by these. Like: Wolf's claw - deals 1d8 + Wis or 1d12 + Wis in wild shape, shift 1 square. That sorta thing.
Shaman - Primal Leader: This probably summons spirit totems to heal and buff allias. Sounds cool.
W? - Primal Controller: This will be the guy summoning thunderstorms around.

Bard - Arcane Leader: Cool. I love this, I will see foward to it.
Sorcerer - Arcane Controller: Meh, I hope it is better than I imagine.

Inquisitor - Divine Striker: WOW! AMAZING! I will probably never play this, but it is AMAZING!!! I love it, and so will my players.
Theurge - Divine Controller: A divine class I will probably like to play. Cool.

I'm happy for the divine classes, if you ARE right. A little bit less for the Sorcerer, but...

Ealstan
2008-10-09, 04:15 PM
I'd personally prefer seeing a Warden being the Primal Defender, and the Controller role going to Druid. If it turns out vice versa, then I'll just have to mentally flip them to keep myself happy :smallwink: