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Shadow_Elf
2008-10-15, 05:21 PM
First of all, big thanks to Zeta Kai for his wonderful concept, which I am now using for a 4e version. If you were looking for Zeta's most recent vote, go Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94090).
If you were looking for an earlier incarnation of the thread, or trying to find one of Zeta's previous creations, there are links in in the thread linked above.

The creature is in and the result is... The Songbird Spirit! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5183668&postcount=133)

I'm not great at tables, so here's a poor man's attempt at a set of tally charts.

Vote #1: Creature Origin & Type
Immortal Animate

Origin
Aberrant: 1
Elemental: 1
Fey: 1
Immortal: 6
Natural:
Shadow: 5

Type
Animate: 5
Beast: 3
Humanoid: 4
Magical Beast: 1

Vote #2: Creature Subtype(s)
Shapechanger & Mount

Air
Angel
Aquatic
Blind: 2
Construct: 1
Demon: 1
Devil: 1
Dragon
Earth
Fire
Giant
Homunculus
Living Construct
Mount: 3
Ooze: 1
Plant
Reptile
Shapechanger: 5
Spider
Swarm: 2
Undead
Water: 2

Vote #3 Creature Size
Gargantuan

Tiny
Small
Medium
Large: 4
Huge: 3
Gargantuan: 6

Vote #4 Creature Level (between 1-30)
Level 24

07: 1
12: 4
13: 1
18: 3
24: 6

Vote #5 Role and Power Level
Elite Artillery

Role
Artillery: 4
Brute: 3
Controller: 1
Lurker: 1
Minion: N/A
Skirmisher: 3
Soldier: 3

Power Level
Normal: 7
Elite: 8
Solo: N/A

Vote #6 Attack Keywords
Polymorph and Teleportation (+ others) (see below)

This Color = Guaranteed to be used
This Color = Potentially used
Acid
Charm: 2
Cold
Conjuration: 1
Disease
Fear: 2
Fire
Force: 1
Gaze
Healing
Illusion: 1
Necrotic
Poison
Polymorph: 9
Psychic: 1
Radiant: 2
Sleep: 1
Teleportation: 3
Weapon
Zone: 2

Vote #7 Alignment
Unaligned

Chaotic Good (CG):
Neutral Good (NG):
Lawful Good (LG):
Lawful Neutral (LN):
True Neutral (TN): 1
Unaligned (UA): 4
Chaotic Neutral (CN): 3
Chaotic Evil (CE): 1
Neutral Evil (NE):
Lawful Evil (LE):

Ok, so this works a bit differently than the 3.X version. The first Vote will be on creature origin and type. One vote per section (1 for origin, 1 for type) per person, please don't change your vote. The highest in each category will win.
Second vote is on creature subtype. You can vote only twice, but depending on how close the voting is, I might use multiple subtypes.
Third Vote is on size. One vote per person, winner gets in.
Fourth vote is on Level. Please vote for one level only. I have "1-30" in the spoiler to start, but as numbers are voted for, I will tally them.
Fifth vote is for Role and Power Level. One vote for role, one for power level. In case you don't play 4e, an Elite is worth 2 normals, and a solo is worth 5 normals. If you vote for Minion, you cannot vote for Power Level. If Minion wins in the role department, the Power Level votes are voided. Unfortunately.
Sixth and final vote is on power keywords. You can vote for two of these, and I will use the top three or four (maybe more, this is an experiment) to make the creature's powers.
EDIT: A seventh vote has been added! I totally forgot about Alignment, and so that will be the seventh and final vote. We're running off the 3.Xe alignment system, since the 4e one is arbitrarily restricting.
I will announce when one vote ends and the next begins. Without Further ado, let Vote #1 of Vote up a Monster 4e BEGIN!

streakster
2008-10-15, 06:05 PM
Shadow and Humanoid

RTGoodman
2008-10-15, 06:06 PM
Awesome - I've been waiting on you to get this up since you mentioned it in one of the 3.x "Vote Up" threads.

For origin and type, I'm going with Aberrant animate.

Alteran
2008-10-15, 06:23 PM
Shadow and Magical Beast.

Deeeeep Croooooow!

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-15, 06:25 PM
Yay!! Votes!!

MammonAzrael
2008-10-15, 06:29 PM
Well, first you'll probably appreciate this page (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/misc.php?do=bbcode#table)to help you with your table skills.

Second, on the 5th vote, minion should be under power level, not role.

Third, unless I missed something (I'm afb), creature type and origin and all that has no direct mechanical influence on monsters, right? Nevertheless, my votes will be for Immortal and Animate.

Oh, and you might also want to have a vote on what abilities the creature focuses on, since that's such a focus in 4e.

:smallsmile:

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-15, 06:43 PM
Well, first you'll probably appreciate this page (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/misc.php?do=bbcode#table)to help you with your table skills.

Second, on the 5th vote, minion should be under power level, not role.

Third, unless I missed something (I'm afb), creature type and origin and all that has no direct mechanical influence on monsters, right? Nevertheless, my votes will be for Immortal and Animate.

Oh, and you might also want to have a vote on what abilities the creature focuses on, since that's such a focus in 4e.

:smallsmile:

Minions do not have a role, therefore they are a role. HOWEVER, if you vote for Minion (and I will ammend this up top) you cannot vote for power level, as Solo Minions are paradoxicals creatures.

Origin and and type do have mechanical influences. I.e. Feyslaughter Weapon, and Beast Stalker Ranger PP.

Abilities I will fill in based on the other parts, and what I feel fits the theme. Too many exceptions like Natural Beast INT cannot be above 2 etc., I'll just use my own judgement on those.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-15, 06:52 PM
Sweet, now I can vote, too! Even though I don't play 4E!! Yay!!!

Anyway, I vote for Shadow Humanoid.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-15, 06:56 PM
Well, Shadow seems to be taking an early lead, but the vote has only just begun, so there is still plenty of time for some other origins to come out of the blue.
In the Type race, Humanoid has reach a tie with Animate at 2 votes.

@Zeta: Now I know how you feel :smalltongue: Not being able to vote is hard. Atleast I can still vote on yours!

(If anyone is wondering why I'm posting like every other post, its because I got a lucky homework-low night and I am not sure how to spend it :smallbiggrin:)

Vadin
2008-10-15, 08:48 PM
Immortal beast ftw!

Shades of Gray
2008-10-15, 08:54 PM
You are using 3.5 alignments, me like.

Shadow Animate

Animate shadow?

Lappy9000
2008-10-15, 08:56 PM
Immortal Animate. <--I have no idea what this implies, not being 'down' with 4e

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-15, 09:32 PM
This is shaping up to be quite a race. Voting on Origin and Type will continue until tomorrow at some point. Get your votes in quickly!

CarpeGuitarrem
2008-10-15, 10:03 PM
Fey humanoid

erikun
2008-10-16, 01:58 AM
Heh, neat. I can actually make 4e monsters.

One vote for Elemental Animate.

KKL
2008-10-16, 04:28 AM
Immortal Beast.

Hey, Elf. Would you mind if I made a blatant ripoff thread sometime in the near future? I'd like to give this a shot.

cnsvnc
2008-10-16, 11:55 AM
Yeah, immortal beast is cool.

Baxter190
2008-10-16, 12:04 PM
Shadow humanoid ftw.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-16, 04:19 PM
I was going to close Vote #1, but it appears that there is a creature origin tie. As a creature cannot originate in two places simultaneously, I'll have to make the executive decision that...
Next vote decides it.
Therefore, whoever votes next, you are voting between Shadow and Immortal, and you are not voting on creature type (as I do not want another tie)

So the creature will be a _____ Animate.

Tuataralad
2008-10-16, 06:53 PM
Immortal, immortal, immortal. i was gonna say immortal magical beast, but immortal animate it is.:smallsmile:

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-16, 08:47 PM
The votes have been tallied and the winner is...
Immortal Animate!
Ok, so next I'd like you all to vote on the creature's Subtype. Remember, please only 2 votes each! (see list in OP for your options)

RTGoodman
2008-10-16, 08:50 PM
Ooh, I'm gonna go with Devil - it could be some sort of re-animated zombie devil!

Beleriphon
2008-10-16, 08:53 PM
Subtype: Water

streakster
2008-10-16, 08:54 PM
Shapechanger

Vadin
2008-10-16, 09:07 PM
Because there aren't enough: Shapechanger and Mount subtypes. If I can only pick one, then just Mount.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-16, 09:11 PM
You know what? I'm worried about a many-way tie, with all the subtypes out there. Lets vote for 2 Subtypes. If you've already voted, edit it in or post again, w/e, but I'll update the OP and the reminder, as well as the votes. Both your votes are in Vadin.

RTGoodman
2008-10-16, 09:14 PM
Alright, for my second one, I'm gonna throw in Blind just because it seems cool.

streakster
2008-10-16, 09:16 PM
Demon Why not?

Alteran
2008-10-16, 09:50 PM
Shapechanger! Swarm!

erikun
2008-10-16, 10:06 PM
I'm going for Construct and Water this time around.
And you're right, the subtypes are going to be a bit wierd. Rather amusing if we get a Construct/Living Construct, after all. :P

Zeta Kai
2008-10-16, 10:33 PM
I'm gonna vote Blind & Swarm, because swarms don't need to see to kill.

CarpeGuitarrem
2008-10-16, 10:39 PM
Shapechanger humanoid

MammonAzrael
2008-10-17, 01:33 AM
Because I think the visual would be freakin' hilarious, I'm going to vote for Ooze and Mount.

erikun
2008-10-17, 04:37 AM
Gelatinous Cube Cavalry! :smallbiggrin:

Mewtarthio
2008-10-17, 10:51 AM
Mount & Shapechanger

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-17, 06:27 PM
Shapechanger humanoid

Umm, humanoid is not a subtype (please see list in the OP). I'll leave the voting open for a while longer.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-17, 09:06 PM
Ok, the voting on creature Subtype is now closed, and the winner is...
Shapechanger & Mount!
So this creature is going to be an Immortal Animate with the Shapechanger and Mount subtypes. You are cruel voters, Playgrounders.
So next, I'd like you all to vote on the creature's Size. Size works differently in 4e, for those of you who play 3.X, so I would suggest reviewing the options in the OP.
Happy Voting!

streakster
2008-10-17, 09:33 PM
Gargantuan, of course. Who says we're cruel?

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-17, 10:23 PM
The only animates that currently exist are either constructs or undead. Having me make an animate that is neither will be... a challenge.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-17, 10:30 PM
I'd say that Large would be the most reasonable choice for a mount.

streakster
2008-10-17, 11:23 PM
I'd say that Large would be the most reasonable choice for a mount.

Precisely why I chose Gargantuan...:smallbiggrin:

Yes, I suppose "cruel" is accurate after all.

cnsvnc
2008-10-18, 02:06 AM
Large would indeed be reasonable. So gargantuan it is...

RTGoodman
2008-10-18, 02:06 AM
Yeah, I'm gonna go with Large.

Just a note - mounts have to be Large or larger, so that's kinda limiting.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-18, 09:39 AM
Yeah, I'm gonna go with Large.

Just a note - mounts have to be Large or larger, so that's kinda limiting.

Medium mounts can carry small creatures.

Has anyone ever noticed that:
Kobolds = Small Dragonborn
Halflings = Small Humans
Gnomes = Small Elves
Goblins = Small Hobgoblins/Bugbears

AgentPaper
2008-10-18, 09:45 AM
Let's make it Huge.

Knaight
2008-10-18, 10:10 AM
Large, its a mount.

Alteran
2008-10-18, 11:10 AM
Gargantuan.

Transforming animated mega-horse?

Instead of a Nightmare, call it a Night Terror. :smallbiggrin:

Vadin
2008-10-18, 04:03 PM
Large. I'd like to actually be able to use this in my games.

erikun
2008-10-18, 05:00 PM
The only animates that currently exist are either constructs or undead. Having me make an animate that is neither will be... a challenge.
So, Immortal means from the gods/astral sea, Animate means that it is a living being made out of artificial materials, Shapechanger means that it has multiple forms and Mount means that it can be riden...

Congratulations, you're making Optimus Prime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Prime)! Or maybe just a Veritech Fighter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veritech_fighter).

With that in mind, my vote is for Huge. I want the entire party to ride in the mecha-god train, until it transforms into a power suit with a harness on the back. :smallbiggrin:

Rigon
2008-10-18, 06:10 PM
Gargantuan or bigger.

Epic things have no size restrictions. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann anyone?

Immortal means that the spiral goes forever, Animate means that it's from an anime, Shapechanger means that it can have bigger and bigger drills in a physics disturbing way and Mount means it can be bigger than a Mountain.

please note that i'm joking with the TTGL reference. also note that something made up from such haphazard data is by no means destined to turn out bad.

Tuataralad
2008-10-18, 07:51 PM
Ima go with huge, because then large creatures can use it as a mount which is pretty cool, and I personally think that gargantuan mounts are a kind of dumb idea (they couldn't even fit through your average hallway).

Alteran
2008-10-18, 09:57 PM
You don't want to ride on the back of a gargantuan Red Dragon, flying across an open field, buzzing the hapless hobgoblins below?

And what if, just what if, that dragon was crafted by the gods, and then given life, with the ability to change into any form you required it to?

It could probably make itself really long or tall to fit through hallways. Or something. Can shapechange work like that? I don't know.

Rigon
2008-10-19, 05:13 AM
And what if the shapechanging means it can change size from medium to gargantuan to fit any kind of rider?

Alteran
2008-10-19, 10:37 AM
Then we have the best of both worlds!

Shades of Gray
2008-10-19, 10:42 AM
Ooh! Crazy Idea! We make this a ritual that summons a steed, adjusted for the rider.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-19, 11:51 AM
Once again, I am forced to enforce a next vote wins clause.

The next person to vote has the deciding vote between Gargantuan and Large.

paddyfool
2008-10-19, 12:00 PM
It's so hard to pick between what's reasonable and what's epic... but what the hey, Gargantuan it is.

Siberys
2008-10-19, 12:00 PM
Gargantuan. Sounds like more fun.

Edit: Ninja'd, though, thankfully, by someone who agrees.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-19, 12:23 PM
Well, the votes have been tallied and the winner is...
Gargantuan
This is going to be a... very interesting monster. Thou art cruel masters Playgrounders.
So next, I grudgingly ask you all to vote on the monster's Level.

streakster
2008-10-19, 12:38 PM
Why, 13, of course.

RTGoodman
2008-10-19, 01:55 PM
Alright, a Gargantuan Immortal animate (mount, shapechanger) - that just screams that it's a crazy mount for angels or deities or something. Seems epic enough to me, so I'm going with Level 24.

Siberys
2008-10-19, 03:32 PM
12

If you know why, you gets a cookie.

Knaight
2008-10-19, 03:43 PM
18. It is just a mount after all.

Rigon
2008-10-19, 04:39 PM
Level 18.
so you can say: "What?! Hey, it's cool, she's 18."

Zeta Kai
2008-10-19, 04:44 PM
I'm gonna go pretty low. Mounts aren't gonna be solo encounters, by their very definition. I vote for lucky number 7.

Vadin
2008-10-19, 05:06 PM
12, for low paragon-tier use. I am very for things actually usable in games, not just things that are 'woah, so crazy look at this!'. I prefer both, but I'll settle for just the first one (but it'll probably be both).

Verosce
2008-10-19, 05:20 PM
I'll go with 12.

erikun
2008-10-19, 05:51 PM
Gargantuan Immortal? I'm going with level 24 - low enough to get early in Epic tier, but high enough that you don't have paragon characters riding around on a 100 foot tall iron golem mount.

Alteran
2008-10-19, 11:54 PM
My vote is for level 24.

cnsvnc
2008-10-20, 02:44 AM
A gargantuan immortal deserves no less than 24.

AgentPaper
2008-10-20, 02:45 AM
24. You have to tame and ride this thing to be eligible for epic tier. :smallcool:

CarpeGuitarrem
2008-10-20, 10:39 AM
Level 18. Just a wee bit under epic.

MammonAzrael
2008-10-20, 10:45 AM
While this could certainly be quite the epic mount, I'd like to have it see a bit more play than that. Therefore I'm tossing in a vote for level 12.

Tuataralad
2008-10-20, 04:25 PM
I'm going with 24, for the simple reason that it is gargantuan. I mean seriously, of all the gargantuan things in the 4e MM, (and there are only like 12 or so) the lowest I can think of is level 23. Also, it's a friggin immortal animate, that just sounds way to ridiculous to be paragon, let alone heroic.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-20, 04:46 PM
The votes have been tallied, and the winner is...
Level 24!
So this is going to be a Gargantuan Immortal Animate with the Shapechanger and Mount subtypes and it will be a Level 24 creature. Sounds like this may end up being very interesting.
So, now that that's done, I'd like to have you all vote on the monster's Role and Power Level.
Hopefully, for those of you playing 3.Xe, the roles' names are fairly self-explanatory.
Remember, a Solo is worth 5 normals, and an Elite is worth 2.
NOTE: You cannot vote for Solo as the power level in this competition, as, by definition, a mount does not an entire encounter make.
NOTE2: You cannot vote for the Minion Role in this competition. A mount with 1 hp is not useful whatsoever, and is therefore not an option.

Knaight
2008-10-20, 04:50 PM
Elite, it works best for a mount and rider fight, against titanic enemies.

cnsvnc
2008-10-20, 04:53 PM
Artillery.

streakster
2008-10-20, 04:53 PM
I'll second Artillery.

Alteran
2008-10-20, 04:59 PM
I'll say elite skirmisher.

erikun
2008-10-20, 05:01 PM
You forgot Soldier. That's where I'm placing my vote. :smallsmile:

<edit>
And I'm saying Normal power level. It woudl be way too easy for an Elite to overshadow its rider.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-20, 05:03 PM
My understanding of 4E mechanics is, of course, limited. That being said, I think an Elite Brute sounds like an interesting combination.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-20, 05:04 PM
I'm not sure if I've clarified.

You vote for 1 Role, and 1 Power Level.

So, those Artillery Votes need a Power Level.

And that Elite needs a Role.

Role is what part they play in combat, whereas Power Level is just that.
Here's a little guide to help:
Artillery: Stands back and pumps damage into 1 enemy. "Glass Cannon"
Soldier: Good defences, decent damage, good to-hit. "Meat Shield"
Brute: Poor defences, poor to-hit, crazy damage and hp. "Rager"
Lurker: Good mobility, high damage, high to hit, fragile. "Assassin"
Skirmisher: Great mobility, decent everything else. "Hit and Run"
Controller: AoE, good range, status effects etc. "Flamethrower"
Minion: Same stats as base creep, except fixed dmg and 1hp. "Arrow Fodder"

Elite: Experience lord, lich, vampire, priest, etc. surrounded by underlings.
Solo: One guy, Takes on all five of you. Good Luck.

streakster
2008-10-20, 05:10 PM
OK, Elite Artillery

Zeta Kai
2008-10-20, 05:17 PM
Thanks for the clarification, SE. Upon review, I stand by my vote.

Rigon
2008-10-20, 06:47 PM
MINION! Artillery if needed but MINION!

Gallanoth
2008-10-20, 07:35 PM
I'd like to see it as an elite controller

MammonAzrael
2008-10-20, 07:36 PM
MINION! Artillery if needed but MINION!

...did you not read his statement saying you couldn't vote for Solo or Minion?

Anyways, my vote will be for Normal Skirmisher. Making it Elite runs the risk of making it an even more powerful mount, relegating it to an even later level.

Tuataralad
2008-10-20, 07:53 PM
I'm going to go with elite brute, just because that seems cool.

Siberys
2008-10-20, 07:56 PM
Elite Lurker

Leliel
2008-10-20, 08:02 PM
Elite Artillery, since the idea of a giant mobile transforming mecha sounds nice, but it needs a big gun.

CarpeGuitarrem
2008-10-20, 09:18 PM
Normal skirmisher. Anything above normal, and it starts to be very unusable.

RTGoodman
2008-10-20, 10:01 PM
Normal Soldier sounds good to me - I like creatures that are designed to go together (mount and rider, for instance) that also give bonuses to working with other creatures.

Rigon
2008-10-21, 02:32 AM
...did you not read his statement saying you couldn't vote for Solo or Minion?

Anyways, my vote will be for Normal Skirmisher. Making it Elite runs the risk of making it an even more powerful mount, relegating it to an even later level.

:redface:
I'm sorry. but minion... then i vote standard soldier

AgentPaper
2008-10-21, 04:03 AM
Solo Brute

How can this be a gateway to epictude if it's not a solo? How I say!

I can see why a mount can't be a minion, but what's wrong with a solo? You have to beat it as a team to go epic, and then you have to beat it on your own to ride it. As a solo, you have to be mid-high epic to have a good chance of taking it down. Sounds like the perfect monster to show off your epicness on.

cnsvnc
2008-10-21, 05:13 AM
OK, normal artillery then.

Vadin
2008-10-21, 02:27 PM
Normal Artillery, man! An Artillery mount. The wizard's riding it, shootin off spells, and the mount is doin the same thing! So crazy!

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-21, 09:48 PM
Well, the votes have been tallied, and the winner (this was a really close one guys!) is...
Elite Artillery!
So this is going to be a Level 24 Gargantuan Immortal Animate (Shapechanger, Mount) that serves as an Elite Artillery ("Glass Canon") in combat. This is going to be absolutely insane. So insane, in fact, that I may have to alter the rules of the next competition slightly.
So next, I'd like you all to vote on this monster's Attack Keywords.

To clarify: Attack keywords affect what attacks it will have.
For example, if Gaze and Fear win, one of its attacks may be an Intimidating Staredown.
If Gaze and Charm were to win, it may have a Baiting or Luring Gaze power.
I will use as many of the top voted keywords as I need to fill in its powers well, but there will be repeats of keywords.
For example, if Cold wins, I might give it an Ice Breath Weapon, but also give its Basic Attack a cold bonus.

So if everyone is clear on this, you can each make 2 votes on the creature's Attack Keywords.

Note: As this is a Mount creature, it is guaranteed to have a Mounted Combat feature.

streakster
2008-10-21, 10:05 PM
Charm and Polymorph

Zeta Kai
2008-10-21, 10:25 PM
It's a shapechanging mount, so what could be better than Polymorph & Teleportation?

cnsvnc
2008-10-22, 02:46 AM
Polymorph is a given. And let's give it sleep for maximum weirdness.

AgentPaper
2008-10-22, 02:50 AM
Conjuration and Illusion

You just know it would be epic.

RTGoodman
2008-10-22, 02:17 PM
Hmm... for a giant artillery monster from the Astral Sea, how about Radiant and Fear.

Leliel
2008-10-22, 02:31 PM
I vote for Radiant and Polymorph.

Tuataralad
2008-10-22, 03:46 PM
Polymorph and teleportation. It is a shapechanger, after all, and teleporting is pretty cool.

Gallanoth
2008-10-22, 04:09 PM
Polymorph and Teleportation. Maybe it can attack creatures by teleporting items into them...

Rigon
2008-10-22, 06:02 PM
polymorph and charm. it's gotta be attractive as a gargantuan. maybe because gravity.

Alteran
2008-10-22, 06:54 PM
Polymorph and Fear.

Knaight
2008-10-22, 08:18 PM
Psychic. I have no second vote.

erikun
2008-10-22, 09:14 PM
Force and Zone. Tactical nukes, away~!

Vadin
2008-10-22, 09:17 PM
Polymorph and Zone

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-23, 05:05 PM
As it is unlikely any more Keyword votes are coming in, I am proud to announce that the monster shall have at the very least the Polymorph and Teleport keywords in its powers. Any keyword with 2 votes or higher may or may not end up in its powers list (again, I'm still working out the kinks)

So this is going to be a Level 24 Gargantuan Immortal Animate (shapechanger, mount) that serves as an Elite Artillery ("Glass Canon") in combat. Among its power will be the Keywords Polymorph and Teleport. This is going to be one heck of a creature.

So, without further ado, I'd like to ask you all to cast your final vote on the creature's alignment. Remember, 3.Xe system (the 4e one sucks).

Zeta Kai
2008-10-23, 05:47 PM
Well, I'll just make it easy: True Neutral.

Knaight
2008-10-23, 05:54 PM
TN is now unaligned. And I'm going to go with evil.

streakster
2008-10-23, 06:12 PM
Mercy? You want mercy? I'm Chaotic Neutral!

Tuataralad
2008-10-23, 06:18 PM
I'm going to go with...chaotic neutral

Alteran
2008-10-23, 07:24 PM
True Neutral!

Zeta Kai
2008-10-23, 07:41 PM
TN is now unaligned. And I'm going to go with evil.


So, without further ado, I'd like to ask you all to cast your final vote on the creature's alignment. Remember, 3.Xe system (the 4e one sucks).

QED. Blah, blah, blah.

Zocelot
2008-10-23, 07:55 PM
So, without further ado, I'd like to ask you all to cast your final vote on the creature's alignment. Remember, 3.Xe system (the 4e one sucks).

I suppose it's a bit late now, but it's rather pretentious of you to force everyone to ignore the rules of 4e, just because you don't like them. If you want to use it in your game, where you, as the DM, have absolute power, you could easily adjust it for that, but still give the forums a true 4e monster.

I'm going to go with Chaotic Evil.

streakster
2008-10-23, 08:29 PM
I suppose it's a bit late now, but it's rather pretentious of you to force everyone to ignore the rules of 4e, just because you don't like them. If you want to use it in your game, where you, as the DM, have absolute power, you could easily adjust it for that, but still give the forums a true 4e monster.

I'm going to go with Chaotic Evil.

His show, his rules.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-23, 08:30 PM
His show, his rules.

QFT. Blah, blah, blah.

afroakuma
2008-10-23, 08:38 PM
His show, his rules.

QFT indeed. :smallannoyed:

Vadin
2008-10-23, 08:52 PM
I suppose it's a bit late now, but it's rather pretentious of you to force everyone to ignore the rules of 4e, just because you don't like them. If you want to use it in your game, where you, as the DM, have absolute power, you could easily adjust it for that, but still give the forums a true 4e monster.

I'm going to go with Chaotic Evil.

Because monster alignment totally has anything at all to do with the way you, as the DM, use the monster.

And my vote? Chaotic good!

AgentPaper
2008-10-23, 08:57 PM
I vote Unaligned. Are you counting unaligned separate from true neutral? At any rate, I don't really care about this one much, since I never use alignment in my games anymore anyways. :smallwink:

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-23, 09:06 PM
I vote Unaligned. Are you counting unaligned separate from true neutral? At any rate, I don't really care about this one much, since I never use alignment in my games anymore anyways. :smallwink:

Unaligned and TN are different. I had a discussion with some friends about this today. The difference is that Unaligned doesn't really care about alignment, such as a common farmer, whereas True Neutral is someone who actively strives to be neutral, or who dips into two ends of an axis (lawful chaotic and evil good characters).

Therefore, Unaligned shall be added to the list as UA. Thanks for reminding me. If anyone wants to change their vote, you can do so.

Vadin
2008-10-23, 09:12 PM
Schwoops! That sounds much better for an animate: my vote is for unaligned.

Alteran
2008-10-23, 11:04 PM
I suppose it's a bit late now, but it's rather pretentious of you to force everyone to ignore the rules of 4e, just because you don't like them. If you want to use it in your game, where you, as the DM, have absolute power, you could easily adjust it for that, but still give the forums a true 4e monster.

I'm going to go with Chaotic Evil.

If your disagreement is that 3.5e alignment system doesn't fit into 4e, it's pretty trivial to change it yourself.

cnsvnc
2008-10-24, 03:51 AM
CN for the win.

Zeta Kai
2008-10-24, 08:06 AM
Therefore, Unaligned shall be added to the list as UA. Thanks for reminding me. If anyone wants to change their vote, you can do so.

Thank you for the clarification. I stand by my vote.

Alteran
2008-10-24, 06:35 PM
I'll change mine to unaligned.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-25, 10:20 AM
Argh. I hate doing this...

Once again, I invoke the Next Vote Wins Clause. The next vote is between Unaligned and Chaotic Neutral.

paddyfool
2008-10-25, 10:27 AM
I vote for: Unaligned

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-25, 10:35 AM
I vote for: Unaligned

Thank you voting.

Thank you all for voting, actually, since Vote Up a Monster 4e Edition #1 is OVER.
So, to sum things up, this creature is going to be a level 24 Gargantuan Immortal Animate (shapechanger, mount) that serves as an Elite Artillery ("Glass Canon") in combat. Among its powers will be the keywords polymorph and teleport. It will be Unaligned, which is to say it does not care about or acknowledge alignment.
The monster should be up some time this weekend, homework permitting, but failing that, it will be up before Wednesday, October 29th 2008, just in time for any Halloween campaigns :smallwink:.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-27, 05:29 PM
Here it is Playgrounders. I am proud to announce that the result of the first Vote Up a Monster 4e Edition is:
The Songbird Spirit!

Stats

Songbird Spirit-TAB--TAB--TAB-Level 24 Elite Artillery (Leader)
Gargantuan Immortal Animate (shapechanger, mount) -TAB-TAB--TAB-TAB-XP 12,100
Initiative +20-TAB-Senses Perception +20
HP: 444; Bloodied: 222
AC 40 Fortitude 36, Reflex 38, Will 36
Resist 10 Radiant, 10 Thunder
Saving Throws: +2
Action Points: 1
Speed 4 (clumsy), Fly 12 (hover)
_____________________________
(BR) Shining Cry (Standard Action, at-will) ♦ Radiant
Ranged 25; deafened creatures are immune; +29 vs. Fortitude; 3d6 +8 radiant damage and the target is dazed (save ends)
(M) Inspiring Song (Minor Action, Sustain Minor*; at-will)
Close Burst 10; deafened creatures are immune; the Songbird Spirit sings one of the following melodies:
Driving Assault (Teleportation): Allies within the burst may spend a move action to teleport 5 squares. This includes the Songbird Spiritís riders. Allies in the burst also gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls when flanking.
Disarming Melody (Charm): Targets enemies; +24 vs. Will; The target is dazed (save ends). A new attack roll is made each time the song is renewed.
Tangible Tune: Every square in the burst is treated as difficult terrain (again, deafened creatures are immune) for allies and enemies. This does not apply to the Songbird Spirit or its riders.
Note*: The Songbird Spirit cannot take attack actions while singing its Inspiring Songs
Unleashed Spirit (Immediate Reaction, when first bloodied) ♦ Polymorph
When bloodied, a Songbird Spirit enters a different form, becoming black as night, until the end of the encounter, or until it is knocked unconscious. It gains the following Aura:
Aura of Terror (Fear) Aura 10: Enemies within the aura take a -2 penalty to attack rolls and a -4 penalty to damage rolls.
Its Shining Cry does 1d6 + 6 additional Radiant damage, and it gains the following bonuses to its Songs
All: +5 to the range of the Close Burst
Driving Assault: Allies within the burst can now teleport up to 10 squares as a move action
Disarming Melody: Targets of this attack are stunned, rather than dazed
Tangible Tune: Rather than making the burst difficult terrain, Tangible Tune instead slows all enemies within the burst radius.
Astral Storm ♦ Mount
The Songbird Spirit can have 4 Medium or smaller riders, 2 Large riders or one Huge rider. Only the primary (chosen at time of mounting) rider must share its actions with the Songbird. The other riders can use their actions independently. All of the Songbirdís riders of level 24 or higher gain a +5 bonus to the range of their ranged attacks.
_____________________________
Alignment Unaligned-TAB--TAB-Languages Supernal
Str 16 (+15)-TAB- Dex 26 (+20)-TAB-Wis 16 (+15)
Con 24 (+19)-TAB-Int 12 (+13)-TAB- Cha 28 (+21)
Skills: +25 Acrobatics, +20 Perception, +20 Insight, +25 Diplomacy


Fluff

Songbird Spirit
A Songbird Spirit is a collection of lost spirits from around the Astral Sea. It is used in combat as a mount either for mobile archery units or for larger units such as Aspects and Godforged Colossi. It sings from its soul in combat, wounding enemies with its pure notes. It is employed by every one of the Astral domains, including the Pit Fiends of the Nine Hells, and as such tends not to look to alignment much.

Songbird Spirit Tactics:
The Songbird Spirit attack from afar with its Shining Cry attack, allowing its mounted allies to gain access to its mount feature for additional range. When enemies close, it uses its songs to give bonuses to allies or to give penalties to its opponents. If threatened with death, the Spirit will activate its Driving Assault melody and encourage its passengers to teleport away. When bloodied, the Songbird Spirit turns into a fearsome creature made of nightmares and discordant melodies. Its Inspiring Melodies become much more potent, and its Shining Cry deals additional damage.

Songbird Spirit Lore (what you know)

DC 15 Arcana: The Songbird Spirit is a fearsome foe used by Astral Warriors as mounts
DC 20 Arcana: The Songbird Spirit uses powerful ranged attacks at distant foes, and activates battle-field control powers when enemies close.
DC 25 Arcana: The Songbird Spirit transforms into a fearsome Unleashed Spirit when it is grievously injured.


Image I found

Songbird Spirit in Flight
http://msp96.photobucket.com/albums/l186/Raxalman/eagle.gif

Alteran
2008-10-27, 06:19 PM
I like it, a lot. It turned out very well, especially considering it had such ridiculous requirements. :smallbiggrin:

One thing I noticed is that with unleashed spirit, Disarming Melody and Tangible Tune become extremely debilitating, and (I think) more useful than Driving Assault.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-27, 06:49 PM
I like it, a lot. It turned out very well, especially considering it had such ridiculous requirements. :smallbiggrin:

One thing I noticed is that with unleashed spirit, Disarming Melody and Tangible Tune become extremely debilitating, and (I think) more useful than Driving Assault.

All allies within 15 squares can teleport 10 squares at-will? and they gain +2 damage from flanking? I agree that Stunned is very powerful, but the attack has to hit (thinking of reducing the attack bonus on that). And reducing enemy mobility is arguably only as useful as drastically increasing that of your own troops. However, I may make it so that Tangible Tune just slows enemies, no difficult terrain. Otherwise, enemies have an effective speed of 1.

Tuataralad
2008-10-27, 07:06 PM
Sweet, this is pretty awesome. It actually turned out way better than i expected, what with all the crazyness.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-27, 08:56 PM
I'm changing some things in its songs to reduce the power a bit. I'm noticing that I leaned more in the way of Controller, using the Leader sub-role as an excuse. However! You guys didn't give me any attack keywords other than Radiant to work with, so I think that justifies it. I also skimped on the whole shapechanging thing, I guess. It only shapechanges when bloodied... I hope it counts

Alteran
2008-10-27, 09:41 PM
All allies within 15 squares can teleport 10 squares at-will? and they gain +2 damage from flanking? I agree that Stunned is very powerful, but the attack has to hit (thinking of reducing the attack bonus on that). And reducing enemy mobility is arguably only as useful as drastically increasing that of your own troops. However, I may make it so that Tangible Tune just slows enemies, no difficult terrain. Otherwise, enemies have an effective speed of 1.

They're all powerful, I just said I would usually lean towards those two, probably disarming melody. Reducing the attack bonus would make it a bit fairer, otherwise you could incapacitate the entire party for a round.

I thought that Tangible Tune was difficult terrain as well as slowed. Just slowed makes more sense.

I don't think we can blame you for using some keywords less than others, we didn't give you an easy time. =p

Zeta Kai
2008-10-28, 09:04 PM
Nice monster, Shadow_Elf. This is a great conclusion to a nicely-run contest. I don't play 4E, & after reading the 4E Monster Manual, I doubt I ever will, but I really like the fluff. I think that there should be more high-level mounts. Great job, I hope to see more such contests in the future.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-28, 09:12 PM
Thanks for the feedback! I might run another starting Saturday, once I'm done with my custom races. This was a really great idea of yours, and I think that the VUAM will only spread (VUAV, in the most recent case...)