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BWM
2008-10-19, 08:06 AM
Hey all,

I need a way to make a PC/NPC (or basicly his buffs) immune to Dispel Magic. Is there any spell/feat/item that can do that?




edit: Any book

jcsw
2008-10-19, 08:18 AM
Well, no, cause that would be imba. The way to go about doing it is to increase Caster Level to a point past the cap of the spell.

Epinephrine
2008-10-19, 08:24 AM
If it's a PC - forget it. As a DM? Force players to burn their dispels on other things?

Jack_Simth
2008-10-19, 08:48 AM
Hey all,

I need a way to make a PC/NPC (or basicly his buffs) immune to Dispel Magic. Is there any spell/feat/item that can do that?




edit: Any book
Ring of Counterspells or two will do the job - at least temporarily.

If he's a Divine caster, a Bead of Karma before buffing (it's one of the beads on a Strand of Prayer Beads) increases caster level by 4 for 10 minutes - making buffs harder to dispel.

An Orange Prism Ioun Stone increases caster level by 1, making buffs harder to dispel.

The Heirophant or Archmage have the option of increasing caster level.

There's the Dispelling Buffer power from the Expanded Psionics Handbook gives +5 to the DC to dispel stuff.

Project_Mayhem
2008-10-19, 09:56 AM
If it's a PC - forget it. As a DM? Force players to burn their dispels on other things?

Surely as a DM you just say that the NPC is immune to dispelling for some reason unknown to the players?

ColonelFuster
2008-10-19, 09:59 AM
Surely as a DM you just say that the NPC is immune to dispelling for some reason unknown to the players?

Indeed. Arbitration is our greatest power.

Keld Denar
2008-10-19, 10:17 AM
A Ring of Enduring Arcana from Complete Mage increase your CL by 4 ONLY for dispel checks. 4 is a decent strength, making the buffs harder to dispel, especially if its an NPC who's 2-3 levels higher than the PC casting it. If its not enough, kick it up a notch, and make something like a Ring of Eternal Arcana with a +8 or +12 or something. Remember, Dispel Magic caps at 1d20+10 vs DC11+CL, so if its max level, the caster of the Dispel is rolling 1d20-1 against the casters level. That means that if you can get CL20, the owner of the spell is immune to regular Dispel Magic baring some funky shananagans like the Inquisition Domain power. GDM caps at 1d20+15, which reduces to 1d20+4 vs CL, so you need to hit CL 25 to be immune to GDM. There are some higher level Dispels (Reaving?) that cap at 20, but by that level, you have access to MDJ, which autosuceeds against ongoing spell effects, so there isn't much you can do about that.

The only alternative is counterspelling the dispel. If you know EXACTLY which dispel you are countering, you can use a regular Ring of Counterspells from the DMG. If the caster is throwing a non-standard Dispel at your NPC, a Ring of Greater Counterspells with a GDM plugged into it has a good chance of countering anything you want, which would probably be a Dispel or GDM or any other Dispeling effect.

bosssmiley
2008-10-19, 10:18 AM
Surely as a DM you just say that the NPC is immune to dispelling for some reason unknown to the players?

Persistent effects? IIRC dispel magic only suppresses those (as an anti-magic field) for 1-4 rounds or sommat. :smallconfused:

Keld Denar
2008-10-19, 10:41 AM
Persistent effects? IIRC dispel magic only suppresses those (as an anti-magic field) for 1-4 rounds or sommat. :smallconfused:

What do you mean by persistant effects? If you mean spells persisted via Persist Spell metamagic, then no, those are just as vulnerable to Dispel as any other spell.

If you mean spells granted via a continuous item, then yea, those would be supressed if targeted specifically by the Dispel. A simple area or targeted dispel on the person won't do it.

Mastikator
2008-10-19, 10:54 AM
Non-magical effects are immune to Dispel Magic. See if there is a non-magical way to get whatever is being dispelled.

Yahzi
2008-10-19, 11:24 AM
Surely as a DM you just say that the NPC is immune to dispelling for some reason unknown to the players?
And when the players ask how they can replicate that feat, what do you tell them?

If the answer is "a bunch of magic items, specific feats, and prestige class levels," then the players may well decide not to bother with it, because they want to do other things instead.

But if it's "because the DM said so," then the players will simply ask, "Can I be immune to dispel from now on?" And when the DM says "No," they're pretty obviously going to ask, "Why not?" And when the answer is, "Because I said so," they're pretty obviously going to be not particularly happy.

Constructing monsters that make sense in your world is part of the job of being a DM. Unless you're just having a series of arena battles. If that's the case, then ya, you might as well deploy a goblin who is "immune to damage."

Fishy
2008-10-19, 11:46 AM
You're doing it wrong.

When the Bad Guy's magical effects pop back after being dispelled, and the PCs ask 'How did he do that?' have them start rolling Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft checks. Tell the paladin about the rush of Negative Energy he feels right before the spells returned. Put some books in the local Archmage's library that make vague references to a dark ritual that allows a wizard to bind his magic to the world in the same way that a lich binds his soul. Set them off on a quest, tracing the Bad Guy's movements and whereabouts until they can find the hidden artifact that's powering the effect.

It's not a DM cop-out, it's an Adventure Hook!

CthulhuM
2008-10-19, 12:18 PM
There's a feat in Secrets of Xen'drik that raises the DC to dispel your spells by 2 (Mysterious Magic, I think), and another in some Faerun book that gives enemies a -2 penalty on dispel checks made against your spells (I think that one was called Spell Girding).

namo
2008-10-19, 12:46 PM
A Spellblade (Player's Guide to Faerun) weapon can make you immune to one Dispel spell (pick either normal or Greater depending on level).

Iku Rex
2008-10-19, 12:57 PM
Spell turning will take care of targeted dispels.

Total concealment (of any kind) works as well. Greater invisibility is the obvious way to achieve that.

xPANCAKEx
2008-10-19, 02:12 PM
You're doing it wrong.

When the Bad Guy's magical effects pop back after being dispelled, and the PCs ask 'How did he do that?' have them start rolling Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft checks. Tell the paladin about the rush of Negative Energy he feels right before the spells returned. Put some books in the local Archmage's library that make vague references to a dark ritual that allows a wizard to bind his magic to the world in the same way that a lich binds his soul. Set them off on a quest, tracing the Bad Guy's movements and whereabouts until they can find the hidden artifact that's powering the effect.

It's not a DM cop-out, it's an Adventure Hook!

thread win


plus if you're on your own turf, you could actually build a 'trap' in a certain area that automatically casts dispell magic as a counterspell if you set the spell triggers right. Although that would be pricey....

Lemur
2008-10-19, 02:42 PM
And when the players ask how they can replicate that feat, what do you tell them?

If the answer is "a bunch of magic items, specific feats, and prestige class levels," then the players may well decide not to bother with it, because they want to do other things instead.

But if it's "because the DM said so," then the players will simply ask, "Can I be immune to dispel from now on?" And when the DM says "No," they're pretty obviously going to ask, "Why not?" And when the answer is, "Because I said so," they're pretty obviously going to be not particularly happy.

Constructing monsters that make sense in your world is part of the job of being a DM. Unless you're just having a series of arena battles. If that's the case, then ya, you might as well deploy a goblin who is "immune to damage."

You're making the assumption that the players can and should know everything there is to know about the world they live in. The DM should be allowed to keep secrets and reserve the right to use special powers that the PCs don't understand, so long as it doesn't abuse the players (too much).

Also, the DM doesn't need to devise feats and spells for every special ability in use. He can just rule that "as long as the cultists in Castle Taron chant around the green ritual circle, Chicken-mask Steve is unaffected by magic-negating effects.

And a goblin that's immune to damage isn't necessarily a bad idea. There are ways around damaging someone, and he's still a goblin so he can be easily grappled, tied up, and suffocated to death or ability/level drained if necessary.

Project_Mayhem
2008-10-19, 04:50 PM
And when the players ask how they can replicate that feat, what do you tell them?

Stop meta-gaming. Birds can fly, doesn't mean I can.

FMArthur
2008-10-19, 05:32 PM
Stop meta-gaming. Birds can fly, doesn't mean I can.

Flight is possibly the worst example you could use. Think more like, The Tarrasque's regeneration. Totally unobtainable.

But you know what almost all of the enemies whose abilities are unobtainable are? Monsters. If you've got an NPC with a PC race/PC class somehow able to use things that it can't, it kind of breaks verisimilitude for your players. It's entirely plausible for an unknown monster whose magic works in unknown ways to have unique effects. The same cannot be said for ordinary people with well-defined abilities and common (relatively speaking) skillsets.

mabriss lethe
2008-10-19, 06:28 PM
Make the buff come from a Supernatural ability. It can be suppressed via AMF or similar effects, but can't be dispelled, ignores SR, and doesn't normally provoke an AoO

streakster
2008-10-19, 06:43 PM
And when the players ask how they can replicate that feat, what do you tell them?
Annnnnnd go!

Study at the halls of Yethlik for 2000 years, just like he did.

Be born a Magicbane/Son of a God/Race XYZ, as he was. LA +100.

Learn the custom epic spell he designed and destroyed the records of.

See that amulet? The one that glows everytime he resists it? You'll need that. Whoops! It broke when removed from his corpse? Darn magicians.

Become the Lord of this Castle. Remember it only works in the castle, though...

You'll have save Vecna's life, like he did. Prerequisite.


I could go on.

Aquillion
2008-10-19, 07:48 PM
For a psion, Dispelling Buffer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dispellingBuffer.htm) can help. And you can always adapt it into an arcane version.

Skjaldbakka
2008-10-19, 09:02 PM
You're doing it wrong.

When the Bad Guy's magical effects pop back after being dispelled, and the PCs ask 'How did he do that?' have them start rolling Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft checks. Tell the paladin about the rush of Negative Energy he feels right before the spells returned. Put some books in the local Archmage's library that make vague references to a dark ritual that allows a wizard to bind his magic to the world in the same way that a lich binds his soul. Set them off on a quest, tracing the Bad Guy's movements and whereabouts until they can find the hidden artifact that's powering the effect.

It's not a DM cop-out, it's an Adventure Hook!

Actually, it is a DM cop-out. Dispel Magic is a valid tactic, and if a PC is using it, they are going to be very upset if the DM arbitrarily says it doesn't work. The above would be valid once. Do it a lot and that ritual had better have been what you wanted the campaign to be centered around, because it just became centered around it. Having spells that cannot be dispelled is a huge deal.

Think about it from the PC's POV. They spent an action and a spell slot and managed to roll well in order to dispell your villain's buffs. Odds are, they either rolled exceptionally well, that or they spent multiple spell slots and actions dispelling your villain's buffs, and you are just saying it doesn't work.

In summary, if your response to a pc dispelling all your villain's buffs with a dispel magic is "it doesn't work in spite of your awesome roll", it would be like telling the party fighter "your maximum damage crit with a greataxe just misses arbitrarily".

Now, I understand that it can be frustrating for your villain's buffs to get knocked out by your PC dispelling them, especially if you were not expecting it, but you shouldn't approach dealing with that by being arbitrary and heavy handed about it.

Now, if I were going to come up with a home-brew solution to PC dispells, I would create a custom magic item that either shields spells from being dispelled, but takes the dispel (and is thus shut down for 1d4 rnds, allowing a second dispel to potentially have an effect), or have a magic item that can have buffs cast into it, and resets those spells 1d4 rnds after they are dispelled (but discharges it, so it can only do that once per spell).

Although I would more likely take the approach of taking my PC's strategy into account when I design an encounter.

Ponce
2008-10-19, 09:10 PM
Spellblade. It is a weapon enchantment from player's guide to Faerun. Renders the wielder immune to exactly one specific spell. He can also choose to either let the spell be cancelled or to redirect it onto a new target as a free action.

Aquillion
2008-10-19, 10:10 PM
Actually... let's ask the real question here.

Hey all,

I need a way to make a PC/NPC (or basicly his buffs) immune to Dispel Magic. Is there any spell/feat/item that can do that?Why do you need the villain's buffs immune to Dispel Magic? Is there one particular buff that the villain needs to survive (which would make the encounter too short if it was dispelled?) Is this a villain who relies primarily on buffs to be intimidating?

The reason why you need this protection might factor in to exactly what sort of protection (and how heavy-handed a degree of protection) people recommend.

Prometheus
2008-10-19, 10:21 PM
Indeed. Arbitration is our greatest power. Actually this wins the thread.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-10-19, 10:27 PM
Shadow Weave Magic and Shadow Adept 1 for Tenacious Magic makes the DC to dispel your spells 15 + caster level instead of 11 + caster level. Combine that with other effects which increase your effective caster level vs dispel checks and your spells can become undispellable.

If you have levels in Dweomerkeeper you can use the Supernatural Spell ability to convert a spell you cast into a supernatural effect, which would then completely ignore SR, counterspelling, disruption while casting, and even dispel attempts.

Spellblade is a great suggestion. Get a set of +1 Spellblade Armor Spikes for Dispel Magic and a +1 Spellblade Gauntlet for Greater Dispel Magic. Their effects will always be active regardless of what you're doing.


Edit: If a DM runs into players spamming Dispel Magic at the outset of every encounter, just figure out what the opponents will have when they're buffed and instead work it into their unbuffed stats, or make their buffs supernatural abilities which would then be undispellable.

Cuddly
2008-10-19, 10:28 PM
Make the buff come from a Supernatural ability. It can be suppressed via AMF or similar effects, but can't be dispelled, ignores SR, and doesn't normally provoke an AoO

This.
There's a PrC for divine casters in a FR book. I think it's the one about deities. Anyway, it lets you turn up to four spells into "mantles" or some such (spellmantles?) which lets you put them on yourself as Su.


[edit]
Who cares how heavy handed this DMs tactics are or whether he can or can't homebrew something? Start your own thread if you want to discuss your particular play style.

Aquillion
2008-10-19, 10:31 PM
If you have levels in Dweomerkeeper you can use the Supernatural Spell ability to convert a spell you cast into a supernatural effect, which would then completely ignore SR, counterspelling, disruption while casting, and even dispel attempts.That's not true. While Supernatural Spell is awesome for all sorts of other reasons, it only converts it into a spell-like ability, and Spell-Like abilities can still be dispelled as normal:

You can use dispel magic to end ongoing spells that have been cast on a creature or object, to temporarily suppress the magical abilities of a magic item, to end ongoing spells (or at least their effects) within an area, or to counter another spellcasterís spell. A dispelled spell ends as if its duration had expired. Some spells, as detailed in their descriptions, canít be defeated by dispel magic. Dispel magic can dispel (but not counter) spell-like effects just as it does spells.
It can't be countered by dispel magic, but that's all.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-10-19, 10:32 PM
This.
There's a PrC for divine casters in a FR book.I think it's the one about deities.

Dweomerkeeper is in the Complete Divine (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a) (web enhancement), and while specific to FR's Mystra it could be adapted to any deity of magic. A Cleric in FR can take the regional feat Magical Training (PGtF) to meet the arcane spellcasting prerequisite without multiclassing. Definitely a must-have for an Archivistzilla build.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-10-19, 10:34 PM
That's not true. While Supernatural Spell is awesome for all sorts of other reasons, it only converts it into a spell-like ability, and Spell-Like abilities can still be dispelled as normal:

It can't be countered by dispel magic, but that's all.
I'll beg to differ:
Supernatural Spell (Su): At 4th level, the
dweomerkeeper is so attuned to the fabric of magic
that she can manifest spell effects with almost no effort
whatsoever. Once per day as a standard action, she can
use any one spell with a casting time of up to 1 standard
action as a supernatural ability. The spell chosen must
be one that is currently available to the dweomerkeeper
(that is, one that she has prepared or that she
knows and has a spell slot of the appropriate level available
to cast), but she can decide at the moment of casting
to use this ability. The spell functions as it normally
would and is expended normally, but the dweomerkeeper
does not require any components, does not provoke
attacks of opportunity, and ignores the targetís
spell resistance, just as if she were using a supernatural
ability instead of a spell. At every even-numbered level
after the 4th, the dweomerkeeper gains one additional
use of this ability per day.

Devils_Advocate
2008-10-20, 01:58 PM
Stop meta-gaming. Birds can fly, doesn't mean I can.
Man, the Wright brothers were such metagamers.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-20, 02:00 PM
Stop meta-gaming. Birds can fly, doesn't mean I can.Polymorph.

Starbuck_II
2008-10-20, 02:08 PM
Man, the Wright brothers were such metagamers.

I know, they should have figured it out after the 20 times they kept failing. The DM finally decided he was going to be nice and let them fly this once and now look what happened.

The world is in danger of flying machines dropping bombs and other junk. DM should have stood his ground. :smallbiggrin:

Skjaldbakka
2008-10-20, 02:11 PM
Came up with another good angle to approach this issue from, that doesn't involve potentialing aggravating your players by arbitrarily negating one of the spells they chose to prepare and cast.

Mix up the way you use buffs.

If you have a villain that knows the party, he could very well know to expect dispels, and might prepare for this by overlapping multiple identical spells. The odds of the party knocking out three active fly spells is less than the odds they will knock out one.

You could also run minions with buff spells. If the party caster chucks an area dispel, he can knock out the buff spell on several minions in the area, but will only be able to take out one spell on the 'boss'. Which makes it a choice between de-buffing (literally) the villain, or de-buffing the minions and the villain, but to a lesser degree.

Jack_Simth
2008-10-20, 02:23 PM
Came up with another good angle to approach this issue from, that doesn't involve potentialing aggravating your players by arbitrarily negating one of the spells they chose to prepare and cast.

Mix up the way you use buffs.

If you have a villain that knows the party, he could very well know to expect dispels, and might prepare for this by overlapping multiple identical spells. The odds of the party knocking out three active fly spells is less than the odds they will knock out one.

You could also run minions with buff spells. If the party caster chucks an area dispel, he can knock out the buff spell on several minions in the area, but will only be able to take out one spell on the 'boss'. Which makes it a choice between de-buffing (literally) the villain, or de-buffing the minions and the villain, but to a lesser degree.

If you're going with the Buffed Minions idea, don't forget "special construction" - that is, find a lot of mud, use Transmute Mud to Rock on it, and build much of the dungeon out of that. Transmute Mud to Rock has a duration of Permanent, so Dispel Magic will undo it. Make sure the BBEG knows exactly how the place was constructed, and which sections are transmuted mud and which aren't. Then have buffed minions inviting an area dispel (buffed by potion, so they're separate spells - put some kind of high-DC mechanical alarm in front of the door to the BBEG room, and when the enter, mention to the players that they see minions dropping potion bottles as they draw their weapons...).

Cuddly
2008-10-20, 02:51 PM
If you're going with the Buffed Minions idea, don't forget "special construction" - that is, find a lot of mud, use Transmute Mud to Rock on it, and build much of the dungeon out of that. Transmute Mud to Rock has a duration of Permanent, so Dispel Magic will undo it. Make sure the BBEG knows exactly how the place was constructed, and which sections are transmuted mud and which aren't. Then have buffed minions inviting an area dispel (buffed by potion, so they're separate spells - put some kind of high-DC mechanical alarm in front of the door to the BBEG room, and when the enter, mention to the players that they see minions dropping potion bottles as they draw their weapons...).

How sadistic.

Jack_Simth
2008-10-20, 03:05 PM
How sadistic.
If you want to give them warning, make sure to make the front room that way, too - and carve a big, magical-looking symbol in the front wall. Let them know in advance of the boss fight that they're liable to have issues if they throw Dispel Magic around willy-nilly.

Darrin
2008-10-20, 04:19 PM
Please forgive my ignorance, but will Spell Immunity or Globe of Invulnerability prevent Dispel Magic?

Jack_Simth
2008-10-20, 04:36 PM
Please forgive my ignorance, but will Spell Immunity or Globe of Invulnerability prevent Dispel Magic?

Sepll Immunity? No, as Dispel Magic doesn't permit Spell Resistance.

Globe of Invulnerability? Theoretically, unless the Dispel is targetted at the Globe (or it's the Greater Dispel, which is too high of a spell level to be stopped).

DM Raven
2008-10-20, 06:56 PM
And when the players ask how they can replicate that feat, what do you tell them?

If the answer is "a bunch of magic items, specific feats, and prestige class levels," then the players may well decide not to bother with it, because they want to do other things instead.

But if it's "because the DM said so," then the players will simply ask, "Can I be immune to dispel from now on?" And when the DM says "No," they're pretty obviously going to ask, "Why not?" And when the answer is, "Because I said so," they're pretty obviously going to be not particularly happy.

Constructing monsters that make sense in your world is part of the job of being a DM. Unless you're just having a series of arena battles. If that's the case, then ya, you might as well deploy a goblin who is "immune to damage."

You tell them, "You don't know" and suggest they research it once they get back to town. ;p

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-20, 06:58 PM
Forget Ring of Counterspelling. It's lame and too focused on a single spell. If you have a super paranoid BBEG you'll want him to carry as many Rings of Spell-Battle (from MIC) as you think the PC's have dispels (and you are comfortable falling into the hands of the PCs when the BBEG inevitably dies.)

Instead of directly invoking the counterspelling rules, the ring lets you identify any spellcasting within 60' (even silenced, still and from hiding.) Once you've made the relatively easy Spellcraft roll to identify the dispel (or other) spell you can redirect it where ever you want as long as it still hits a legal target... and a good place is right back at the PC's, or into a Rod of Absorption or other such device. Note that it is very badass to start tossing the PC's targetted spells right back at them, and you'll want to make this a memorable encounter.

The ring only works 1/day, but I imagine a BBEG could wear 10 and shuck the expended rings off as they were used as a free action. :smallsmile:

DM Raven
2008-10-20, 07:01 PM
If you're going with the Buffed Minions idea, don't forget "special construction" - that is, find a lot of mud, use Transmute Mud to Rock on it, and build much of the dungeon out of that. Transmute Mud to Rock has a duration of Permanent, so Dispel Magic will undo it. Make sure the BBEG knows exactly how the place was constructed, and which sections are transmuted mud and which aren't. Then have buffed minions inviting an area dispel (buffed by potion, so they're separate spells - put some kind of high-DC mechanical alarm in front of the door to the BBEG room, and when the enter, mention to the players that they see minions dropping potion bottles as they draw their weapons...).


Jack you're my favorite person today...I'll have to keep this one in mind.

Also, you can make an illusion of the BBEG in a room that has a wall of force with the illusion of a floor over it...put this over some kind of pit. When the character uses the aoe dispel magic on the BBEG, the illusions and the floor will vanish. How far you want them to fall depends on how much of a jerk you are.

Keld Denar
2008-10-20, 07:13 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think Walls of Force could be dispelled. I was under the impression that they had to be Disintegrated, Disjoined, or Negated (via Rod) or other such shanananananananagans.

DM Raven
2008-10-20, 07:16 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think Walls of Force could be dispelled. I was under the impression that they had to be Disintegrated, Disjoined, or Negated (via Rod) or other such shanananananananagans.

You're right! Maybe I was thinking second edition? I have to go look this up when I get home...

Keld Denar
2008-10-20, 07:27 PM
Yay, I'm not crazy! Well, not completely. I'm 100% sure that Force Cage can't be dispelled, but I wasn't quite 100% on regular Wall of Force. Disintegrate is the key for that prison.

PS, DM Raven, check your PMs, yo!

monty
2008-10-20, 07:29 PM
Could you Transmute Mud to Rock and then Stone Shape it over the hole?

Starbuck_II
2008-10-20, 07:48 PM
Jack you're my favorite person today...I'll have to keep this one in mind.

Also, you can make an illusion of the BBEG in a room that has a wall of force with the illusion of a floor over it...put this over some kind of pit. When the character uses the aoe dispel magic on the BBEG, the illusions and the floor will vanish. How far you want them to fall depends on how much of a jerk you are.

Could try a Shadow illusion Wall of Force: a fake one would be dispelled.

Jack_Simth
2008-10-21, 01:46 AM
Jack you're my favorite person today...I'll have to keep this one in mind.

If you really want to be sadistic, put a Transmute Mud to Rock trap in the area, set to be triggered by the mud from the dispelled ceiling hitting the ground (encasing them all in solid rock).

But you probably don't want a TPK, so....


Also, you can make an illusion of the BBEG in a room that has a wall of force with the illusion of a floor over it...put this over some kind of pit. When the character uses the aoe dispel magic on the BBEG, the illusions and the floor will vanish. How far you want them to fall depends on how much of a jerk you are.
Wall of Force won't do it - can't be dispelled.

However, the same technique for burying the party in mud can also be used to make such false floors - put slabs of the "special construction" stone over real pits, and you get the effect you're after.

Another mean thing to do:

Use Greater Shadow Conjuration to duplicate Wall of Stone to bridge a chasm. Technically, it results in an Instantaneous (which means no magical aura, after the Dim aura wears off) effect that permits SR and has a Will save to potentially negate the non-damaging effect of supporting you. When you interact with it (by stepping on it, generally), you get a Will save to disbelieve. If you succeed, you have a 40% chance of falling through. If you have SR, you've got a much greater chance of falling through.

Roderick_BR
2008-10-21, 07:52 AM
Surely as a DM you just say that the NPC is immune to dispelling for some reason unknown to the players?
That sounds like a lazy DM's lame excuse.
"He's immune"
"I try..."
"He's immune also"
"Why?"
"uh... because"
Nothing against it, but I never like to make my NPCs with unexplainable powers (even if the PCs never get to find out how)
"What? He gave me 187 points of damage with a dagger? How?"
"High strength"
"He looks human. It's an artifact? He's a deity?"
"He's just strong, now shut up and roll your dice"

ericgrau
2008-10-21, 09:52 AM
You seriously want to stop an anti-caster element of d&d?

Cuddly
2008-10-21, 02:07 PM
Forget Ring of Counterspelling. It's lame and too focused on a single spell. If you have a super paranoid BBEG you'll want him to carry as many Rings of Spell-Battle (from MIC) as you think the PC's have dispels (and you are comfortable falling into the hands of the PCs when the BBEG inevitably dies.)

Instead of directly invoking the counterspelling rules, the ring lets you identify any spellcasting within 60' (even silenced, still and from hiding.) Once you've made the relatively easy Spellcraft roll to identify the dispel (or other) spell you can redirect it where ever you want as long as it still hits a legal target... and a good place is right back at the PC's, or into a Rod of Absorption or other such device. Note that it is very badass to start tossing the PC's targetted spells right back at them, and you'll want to make this a memorable encounter.

The ring only works 1/day, but I imagine a BBEG could wear 10 and shuck the expended rings off as they were used as a free action. :smallsmile:

Only if you intend the PCs to lose the encounter. Otherwise you just gave them 300,000 gp in rings.

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-21, 03:02 PM
Only if you intend the PCs to lose the encounter. Otherwise you just gave them 300,000 gp in rings.

Well, it makes for a climactic last encounter to a campaign. If you want to do it sooner you could always have the Drow craft the rings, which then dissolve as soon as they're exposed to light (making them effectively worthless to the players.)

Cuddly
2008-10-21, 03:04 PM
Well, it makes for a climactic last encounter to a campaign. If you want to do it sooner you could always have the Drow craft the rings, which then dissolve as soon as they're exposed to light (making them effectively worthless to the players.)

Maybe your players.
My players love treasure only slightly less than a great red wyrm. They'd find a way :smallmad:

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-22, 12:13 AM
Maybe your players.
My players love treasure only slightly less than a great red wyrm. They'd find a way :smallmad:It's not that hard, we're dealing with rings here. They put them in a BoH or HHH, take them back to town, and your 26 Int Wizard invents electroplating, or just coats the ring in molten gold and waits for it to cool. I love being in a group with physics majors.

I also just had an idea for a Dragon. He's a Monk who wears a bunch of rings and other bling, has an accent, and uses a cane that's enchanted and deals unarmed damage. Each round Dispel Magic is cast on him, he throws the ring at the player as a Ranged Touch attack taking a Move action, with a DC10 Reflex save to catch it if the player wants to. Then once he's used all 10, he uses a Scroll of Dispel Magic AoE to detonate the rings. Explosive Runes, anyone?

BWM
2008-10-22, 02:16 AM
Is this a villain who relies primarily on buffs to be intimidating?

This option...

only1doug
2008-10-22, 05:13 AM
Maybe your players.
My players love treasure only slightly less than a great red wyrm. They'd find a way :smallmad:

I'll wear the rings under my gloves and never take the gloves off in daylight.

hat of disguise: i'll disguise myself so that it doesn't look like i am wearing gloves.

BobVosh
2008-10-22, 05:57 AM
It's not that hard, we're dealing with rings here. They put them in a BoH or HHH, take them back to town, and your 26 Int Wizard invents electroplating, or just coats the ring in molten gold and waits for it to cool. I love being in a group with physics majors.

Inefficient people who would rather waste cash on plating with gold or time with inventing electroplating when they can simply wear the dang thing under their gloves of dex etc?

Or it is a toe ring in their boot.

Or in their pantaloons and is a co..ya nevermind.

Permancy Greater Darkness ! Woo!

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-22, 06:15 AM
Inefficient people who would rather waste cash on plating with gold or time with inventing electroplating when they can simply wear the dang thing under their gloves of dex etc?Yes. There's lots of fun that can be had with the ability to cover nearly anything in metal, once you've gotten the DM to allow it in. Breaking WBL is the perfect excuse.