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Baron Corm
2008-10-22, 08:16 PM
For those that aren't familiar with generic classes, this class is meant to be taken by every player, and is supposed to be able to fit any character they want to make. This creates near-perfect game balance. I'm not happy with the UA one so here's my take.

Generic Class
{table="head"]Level|Ability
1st|Scaling Ability, A Ability
2nd|B Ability
3rd|C Ability
4th|B Ability Improvement
5th|D Ability
6th|B Ability Improvement
7th|C Ability Improvement
8th|B Ability Improvement
9th|A Ability Improvement
10th|B Ability Improvement
11th|C Ability Improvement
12th|B Ability Improvement
13th|D Ability Improvement
14th|B Ability Improvement
15th|C Ability Improvement
16th|B Ability Improvement
17th|A Ability Improvement
18th|B Ability Improvement
19th|C Ability Improvement
20th|Capstone Ability, B Ability Improvement[/table]

Character Creation

Race

If you wish to, you can use this class along with this list of modified (and hopefully more balanced) races that I have created, using a similar "generic" system.

Base land speed is 30 feet for a Medium or Large creature, and 20 feet for a Small creature. All bonuses are racial bonuses. For the purposes of the type change attributes, it is assumed that my modified types (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126428) are being used to make type less powerful.

Weapon or Armor Familiarity means that members of that race can spend 2 AP to gain proficiency with that weapon or armor when building their archetype, as long as they meet its other requirements.

Angel - +2 Wisdom, -2 Constitution, immunity to petrification, tongues 1/day, delayed flight (none is possible until level 5, when the angel grows wings), Outsider type, Good subtype.

Centaur - +2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, Large size, Stability, +4 to Survival, 20 feet faster base land speed, always counts as mounted, Monstrous Humanoid type.

Changeling - +2 Charisma, -2 Wisdom, +2 to Sense Motive, Shapechanger subtype, Minor Change Shape racial power.

Drow - +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution, Darkvision, Trance 4 hours, +3 bonus on Will saves, dancing lights at-will.

Dwarf - +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity, Stonecunning, Stability, +2 to Craft (Stonework), Tremorsense 60 feet, move normally in heavy armor but -10 base land speed, Weapon Familiarity (Waraxe), Armor Familiarity (Stone Armor).

Elan - -2 Charisma, Naturally Psionic (+2 PP), elan racial powers (Resistance, Resilience, and Repletion), Aberration type.

Elf - +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, Trance 4 hours, +2 to Spot and Listen, 20 feet faster base land speed, Low-Light Vision, Weapon Familiarity (Thinblade, Courtblade), Armor Familiarity (Leafweave Mail, Reinforced Leafweave Mail). Elf subraces might have a swim speed or cantrip at-will instead of the skill bonuses, and a different ability bonus and penalty.

Fiend - +2 Any, -2 Any, Darkvision (can see even in deeper darkness), +1 natural armor, two natural claw attacks dealing 1d6 damage (19-20, x2), a bite, gore, or tail attack dealing 1d10 damage (x3), telepathy 100 feet, Outsider type, Evil subtype, your choice of Lawful, Chaotic, or no extra subtype.

Githyanki - +2 Dexterity, -2 Wisdom, Naturally Psionic (+2 PP), psionic daze 1/encounter, far hand at-will.

Githzerai - +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence, Naturally Psionic (+1 PP), inertial armor 1/encounter, catfall at-will.

Gnoll - +2 Strength, -2 Charisma, +2 to Knowledge (Religion), scent and blindsense 30 feet, Powerful Build, Monstrous Humanoid type, Weapon Familiarity (Double Flail, Heavy Double Flail).

Gnome - +2 Constitution, -2 Strength, Small size, prestidigitation at-will, +2 to Craft and any three Knowledge skills, Armor Familiarity (Twist Cloth). A more fey-like gnome subrace might have speak with animals at-will instead of the skill bonuses.

Goblin - +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence, Small size, +4 to Move Silently, 20 feet faster base land speed, Goblinoid subtype. A worg-riding goblin subrace might have 10 feet faster base land speed instead, and gain a +4 bonus on Ride checks. The rare goblin shamans have a Wisdom bonus instead of a Dexterity bonus.

Half-Elf - +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution, Trance 4 hours, +2 to Diplomacy and any one other skill, any bonus feat.

Halfling - +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength, Small size, +2 to Jump and Move Silently, any bonus feat.

Half-Orc - +2 Strength, -2 Charisma, Darkvision, +2 to Intimidate and any one other skill, any bonus feat

Hobgoblin - +2 Constitution, +4 to Move Silently, any bonus Fighter feat, Goblinoid subtype.

Human - +2 Intelligence, +2 to any two skills, any bonus feat.

Kobold - +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, Small size, +2 to Craft (Traps, Explosives, and Poisons), two natural claw attacks dealing 1d4 damage (19-20, x2), Slight Build, Reptilian and Dragonblooded subtypes, Armor Familiarity (Chitin).

Lizardfolk - +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, Hold Breath (x4), +2 natural armor, +2 to Swim and Balance, natural bite attack dealing 1d10 damage (x3), Reptilian subtype.

Minotaur - +2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, Large size, Natural gore attack dealing 2d8 damage (x3), Natural Cunning, Monstrous Humanoid type, Weapon Familiarity (Greathammer).

Ogre - +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity, Large size, scent and blindsense 30 feet, 10 feet faster base land speed, Giant type.

Orc - +2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, Darkvision, scent and blindsense 30 feet, Powerful Build, Weapon Familiarity (Shotput). The rare orcish shamans have a Wisdom bonus instead of a Strength bonus.

Pixie - +2 Charisma, -2 Strength, Small size, invisibility 1/day, delayed flight (none until 5 HD), Fey type.

Raptoran - +2 Wisdom, +2 to Spot and Listen, delayed flight.

Troll - +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma, Large size, two natural claw attacks dealing 1d8 damage (19-20, x2), +1 natural armor, scent and blindsense 30 feet, pinch healing 1, Giant type.

Vampire - +2 Charisma, Undead type, summon creatures of the night 1/encounter. Summon creatures of the night functions as summon swarm or summon nature's ally II, but only summoning 1d3 wolves for the latter. Unlike most undead, vampires must feed on blood to sustain themselves, and have tiny fangs designed for this purpose. A creature must be helpless, pinned, or willing to be fed on, and suffers 1d4 Constitution damage per round of feeding, which is a standard action.

Warforged - +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma, +2 to Intimidate, Living Construct type, Composite Plating, any bonus Warforged feat or Fighter bonus feat.

Warning! The following races are highly radioactive and have required a major negative trait to balance out their power level. Use with extra caution, though they still follow the rules.

Fire Elemental - +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence, deals 1d6 fire damage to anything touched or touched by (a weapon of solid metal can transfer this damage as well), Elemental type, Fire subtype, unarmed strikes and natural attacks deal fire damage instead of their normal type, cannot enter water, deals 1d6 fire damage per round to held or worn objects unless fireproofed (costs 150 gold for magical items or 15 gold for nonmagical), no feat from first level.

Water Elemental - +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, Drench, Vortex, Elemental type, Water subtype, swim speed 50 feet but -10 base land speed, can breathe air and water, no feat from first level.

Earth Elemental - +2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, +3 natural armor, burrow speed 20 feet, Earth Glide but -10 base land speed, Elemental Type, Earth subtype, no feat from first level.

Air Elemental - +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence, Whirlwind, Elemental Type, Air subtype, fly speed 20 feet with clumsy maneuverability at 1 HD, 30 ft/poor at 2 HD, 40 ft/average at 3 HD, 50 ft/good at 4 HD, 60 ft/perfect at 5 HD, no base land speed, no feat from first level.

Thri-Kreen - +2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma, Naturally Psionic (+1 PP), +4 to Jump, four arms, Monstrous Humanoid type, unarmed strikes deal piercing damage instead of bludgeoning, no feat from first level.

Young Adult True Dragon - +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity, Large size, +1 natural armor, elemental subtype appropriate for your dragon type (if it grants no benefits, increase natural armor by +1), delayed flight (poor maneuverability, but 10 feet faster base land speed), natural claw attack dealing 1d6 damage, Dragon type.

To advance further as a true dragon, take the Transformation and Apotheosis abilities in the spoiler below. Both Transformation abilities must be taken, requiring an extra C ability. You must also take Soul Armor as your Scaling ability, and call it metaphorical, to represent your additional natural armor and spell resistance. Those who wish to stay as Young Adults do not have to do any of this.

The generic true dragon race cannot take classes, feats, or other options related to being a true dragon until epic level. Anything requiring a regular dragon can still be qualified for and taken.

Adult True Dragon

The breath weapon die size might be increased or decreased, depending on your type of dragon, at your DM's option.

I: Breath weapon 2d8, +1 natural armor, +1 Constitution
II: Gain the use of all special abilities listed in your true dragon's advancement table that are gained at Adult age or younger, as well as an appropriate burrow or swim speed if listed, though its speed is limited by your base land speed, +2 Strength
III: Breath weapon 4d8, +1 natural armor, +1 Constitution
IV: Size increase from Large to Huge (and increase in natural weapon damage die), land, burrow, and/or or swim speed increased to normal for an Adult dragon of your type, +2 Strength
V: Breath weapon 6d8, +1 natural armor, +1 Constitution

I: Scent and blindsense 20 feet, +10 flight speed, claw attack deals 2d6 damage instead of 1d6
II: Blindsense 30 feet, +10 flight speed, bite attack dealing 2d6 damage
III: Blindsense 40 feet, +10 flight speed, wing attack dealing 1d6 damage
IV: Blindsense 50 feet, +10 flight speed, second claw attack at same damage
V: Blindsense 60 feet, +10 flight speed, second wing attack at same damage

True Dragon Apotheosis

You gain the spellcasting of an adult true dragon of your type (so a red dragon gains the Spellcasting ability as if he were level 7), as well as a flight speed increase to 150 feet, a frightful presence aura, an improvement of breath weapon damage to 12d8, a tail slap attack dealing 2d6 damage, a crush attack dealing 2d8 damage, and +2 to Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.

Ability Score Increases and Feat Progression

In this system, the rate of increasing ability scores and gaining feats is different. Any time you would get an A or C ability, you also gain a feat. Any time you would get an A or D ability, and at level 20, you also get an ability score increase.

Gaining extra abilities does not increase your ability scores or number of feats.

Hit Points per Level and Stat Generation

A nice houserule to complement this system is to give PCs a set amount of hp per level equal to the size of their hit die minus two. Along with using point buy to determine ability scores, this removes all randomness from character generation, and ensures equality between characters. The hit points per level for each hit die size under this system is listed below. The last column represents a character's hit points per level if he has the Toughness Scaling ability.

{table=head]Die Size|Normal|Toughness
d4|2|6
d6|4|9
d8|6|12
d10|8|15
d12|10|18[/table]

This rule would also apply to monsters using the elite array, but normal monsters receive average HP as normal. Elite monsters with a d4 hit die stick with averaged, because it gives the higher value.

Hit points are not maximized at level one in this variant.

Archetypes

Instead of having a set base attack bonus, hit die, and so on, each player may choose his own. He does this by creating an archetype for himself, using the creation method detailed in the spoiler below.

Every character gets 25 archetype points (AP) that they may spend as they wish. The base stats for every character are listed as costing 0 AP. To upgrade to a better stat, you must spend AP. Saving AP after character creation confers no benefit. To make characters weaker or stronger, the DM may adjust their allotted AP.

A stat which includes the one before it in its AP cost is marked with a +.

Base Saves
{table=head]Base Saves|AP Cost
One Good|0
Two Good|3
Three Good|6[/table]

Base Attack Bonus
{table=head]Base Attack Bonus|AP Cost
1/2|0
3/4|4
1/1|8[/table]

Trained Skills
{table=head]Trained Skills|Free Skill Tricks|AP Cost
2|0|0
4|1|3
6|2|6
8|4|9[/table]

Spending AP to gain more trained skills automatically grants you a certain number of free skill tricks, which you can redeem as soon as you meet their prerequisites. The following spoiler explains the difference between the trained skill system and the normal skill system.

Under this system, there are no "class skills", or need to invest skill points at each level. Instead, each character selects a number of trained skills, determined by the amount of AP he spent. The character receives ranks in those skills equal to his level. A character's Intelligence modifier may increase or decrease the number of trained skills he receives. If his Intelligence modifier is increased or decreased by external forces, the character always chooses which trained skills appear or disappear.

At each level up, the character may choose to reserve a skill point instead of putting it into a skill automatically. That skill point may then be put towards things such as extra skill tricks or Speak Language, or later reinvested into his trained skills. A character's ranks in any skill can never be higher than his character level. If an ability requires the character to have a certain skill trained, that skill cannot have its skill points reserved.

Skill rank requirements for feats and skill tricks in this system are reduced by 3, to a minimum of 1.

Hit Dice
{table=head]Hit Dice|AP Cost
4|0
6|2
8|4
10|6
12|8[/table]

Proficiencies
{table=head]Proficiency|AP Cost with 1/2 BAB|AP Cost with 3/4 BAB|AP Cost with 1/1 BAB
1 Simple Weapon|0|0|0
All Simple Weapons|2|1|0
1 Martial Weapon|2|1|0
All Martial Weapons|3|2|1
Light Armor|2|0|0
Medium Armor+|3|2|1
Heavy Armor+|4|3|2
Shields|2|1|0
Tower Shields+|3|2|1[/table]

It is recommended to use these modified weapons and armor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7056199) to make medium armor proficiency worthwhile.

For those using the weapon group (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm#) variant, refer to the following table to determine your profiencies. I personally enjoy this variant, but your results may vary.

{table=head]Normal|Equivalent
1 simple weapon|1 basic weapon
All simple weapons|Basic weapons
1 martial weapon|1 weapon group
All martial weapons|3 weapon groups[/table]

When using the weapon group variant, you must spend 1 extra AP in order to qualify for exotic weapons of one weapon group. You must already have proficiency with weapons in that group. After qualifying, you must still take the appropriate feat, unless your race has familiarity with that weapon, in which case you may spend 2 AP to gain proficiency. Characters with 1/1 BAB qualify for simple exotic weapons for free.

Extra Abilities
You do not have to spend AP to get your initial abilities according to the class table. If you spend AP on an extra ability, you receive an additional ability of that type, which progresses as a normal ability of that type.
{table=head]Extra Ability|AP Cost
Scaling|12
A|10
B|15
C|10
D|8[/table]

Ability Prerequisites
Spending AP on a prerequisite does not immediately grant you the ability, just the right to select the ability. You cannot select the following abilities without buying the appropriate prerequisite.
{table=head]Ability Prerequisite|AP Cost
Maneuvers|8
Wilding|8
Performances|10
Invocations|10
Domains|10
Spellcasting|15
Psionics|15[/table]

PC Archetypes

The following are premade archetypes for those who want to jump right into the game. Select one, select your abilities, and your extra ability if you receive one, and start playing.

{table=head]PC Archetype|Good Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Warrior|2|1/1|d12|4|All simple weapons, all martial weapons (or tower shields), all armors, shields|-
Initiate|1|1/1|d10|2|All simple weapons, all martial weapons (or tower shields), all armors, shields|Maneuvers or Wilding
Adept|1|1/1|d6|2|All simple weapons, 1 martial weapon of your choice, light armor|Spellcasting or Extra B Ability
Factotum|3|3/4|d8|8|All simple weapons, 1 martial weapon of your choice, light and medium armor|-
Aristocrat|2|3/4|d6|6|All simple weapons, light armor|Invocations, Performances, or Domains
Erudite|1|1/2|d4|2|1 simple weapon of your choice|Spellcasting or Psionics and (Extra A or C Ability or Domains)[/table]

NPC Archetypes

Combat NPCs are built using 12 AP. They use most of the same creation costs as PCs, except that ability prerequisite costs are lowered, and extra abilities are simply granted by the DM.

NPC Ability Prerequisites
Spending AP on a prerequisite does not immediately grant you the ability, just the right to select the ability. You cannot select the following abilities without buying the appropriate prerequisite.
{table=head]NPC Ability Prerequisite|NPC AP Cost
Maneuvers|3
Wilding|3
Performances|6
Invocations|6
Spellcasting|9
Psionics|9[/table]

An NPC has proficiency with any non-exotic armors and shields that you describe them as wearing. Additional trained skills do not grant an NPC any skill tricks.

NPC abilities and feats advance at every other level instead of every level. They do not gain ability score increases by leveling. Most NPCs, such as all of the ones you would usually give standard array and average HP, only get a B ability. Therefore, a Combat NPC will receive a B ability at 4th level, and improve it every 4th level after that, and gain no other abilities.

NPCs can of course be given any combination of additional abilities, AP, and/or bonus feats, at the DM's discretion, to make them more challenging or flavorful.

A Noncombat NPC would essentially just be built with 0 AP, receiving all of the base stats.

The standard archetypes below can be used for almost all NPCs.

{table=head]NPC Archetype|Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Ability
Brute|Good Fortitude|1/1|d8|2|Improved Power Attack
Monk|1 good save of your choice|3/4|d6|4|Maneuvers or Wilding
Rogue|Good Reflex|3/4|d6|6|Sneak Attack
Witch|Good Will|3/4|d6|2|Invocations or Performances
Magician|Good Will|1/2|d4|4|Spellcasting
Noncombat|1 good save of your choice|1/2|d4|2|-[/table]

Level Adjustment

Instead of starting with less character levels, a player who selects a race or template with LA receives less AP when building his archetype. The number depends on the race. I will not give a number per LA, because there are enough races considered "high LA +1" or "low LA +2" that it would be impossible to give a general amount. However, as a guideline, a hobgoblin might receive 1-3 less AP, while a drow might receive 3-5 less AP, and a pixie might receive 5-10 less AP. It depends also on how the individual race's abilities affect your individual campaign.

If you wish to try out building balanced races in the same way that I did it above, instead of using LA, try out my generic race (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7405618). Note that this is a DM tool, not build-a-race.

Also see the Transformation C ability, which could be used to apply a race or template over the course of 20 levels.

Abilities moved down to my next post because this one got over 50,000 characters.

A note on terminology for the abilities:

Each interval - Any time you would upgrade the ability, including the level you get it.
Each additional interval - Any time you would upgrade the ability, except the level which comes before the "additional". If no level is specified, it's every interval except the one you get the ability.
Every other interval - Every other time you would upgrade the ability. For a B ability, this would be levels 2, 6, 10, 14, and 18 if it started upgrading at level 2, and 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 if it started upgrading at level 4.

Sometimes I also just name specific levels, when it's easier.

Special thanks to Lyndworm (who actually made quite a few abilities), Kroy, InaVegt, Roc Ness, M. Mayonnaise, Stegyre, Temotei, aje8, and deuxhero for ideas, inspiration, and fixes. If I forgot your name just let me know.

Pie Guy
2008-10-22, 09:22 PM
It's one of the better generic class remakes I have seen. Seems well rounded.

Innis Cabal
2008-10-22, 09:47 PM
Adept is really...well...give him some weapons at the very least.

Hawriel
2008-10-22, 10:03 PM
This is rather thought out nice work.

I do have one suggestion. For the observant ability would it be more in line with the over all idea to have a bonus to spot and or search? Being observant is understanding your seroundings not reacting quickly to a situation. Initiative is a dex based mechanic for that reason. However I think I understad your reason for the strait bonus to initiative. behing observant would allow a person to perseave trouble and give them a slight advantage in positioning themselves to better react to trouble. In keeping with that mind set how about adding the character Int/wis bonus to initiative gradualy. Similarly to how a warblade over time adds the Int bonus to reflex saves. This way you dont get a big jump in initative and its based on a stat that perseptive skills are based on.

Baron Corm
2008-10-23, 11:45 AM
Scaling Abilities

Scaling abilities are gained at first level, and are never improved. However, they grant a bonus which is directly related to your class level.

Combat Focus (Ex)

You may grant yourself one of the following special abilities as an immediate action, a number of times per encounter equal to (1 + BAB/5).

Learn the current hit point totals of all enemies you threaten
Insight bonus to attack equal to your BAB for 1 round
Insight bonus on checks to resist bull rush, trip, grapple, disarm, sunder, feint, and overrun equal to your BAB for 1 round
Insight bonus on saving throws equal to your BAB for 1 round
Insight bonus to AC equal to your BAB for 1 round

Control Magic (Su)

As an immediate action, you can reflect a spell or spell-like ability cast upon you to its original caster. The original caster suffers whatever effects you would have suffered, but is offered the same DCs and must make any attack rolls against himself.

Alternatively, you may cause a spell or spell-like ability that the spellcaster wanted to affect another target affect you instead. The original target must be within 10 feet per class level.

In order to control a spell or spell-like ability, you must first identify it with a Spellcraft check. If a spell or spell-like ability is disguised (such as by having no somatic or verbal components), you may still attempt to identify it, with a -20 to your check. You may control up to 1 spell level per encounter per class level. On a failed opposed check, your controls per encounter are not wasted.

Death Attack (Ex)

If you attack a creature during a surprise round in which it cannot act, you may make a death attack against it as a standard action. This adds 1d6 bonus damage per class level to your normal attack. The target must be subject to critical hits. If the attack is ranged, the creature must be within 30 feet. If you can attack more than once in a standard attack action, Death Attack applies to each attack.

Pounce (Ex)

You may make a full attack at the end of a charge. You can use this ability at a maximum distance of 5 feet per class level. If this is greater than your normal charge distance, your charge distance is increased. You have no minimum charge distance.

Soul Weapon (Su)

You may summon a soul weapon, which has the following properties:

You may summon your soul weapon as a move action (or a swift action with Quick Draw). You may summon as many weapons as you can wield in one action, though they disappear once they leave your possession. You can dismiss any number of weapons as a free action.

The weapon may be any type you are proficient with (including unarmed strike or a natural weapon). It deals damage equal to a normal weapon of its type, and has the same critical threat range, critical multiplier, range increment, and has any other abilities a normal weapon of its type would have, but is weightless.

The weapon is made out of force, and therefore can hit ethereal and incorporeal creatures. Its damage type changes to force damage. The weapon is treated as masterwork.

If ranged, the weapon has unlimited ammunition, and if thrown, it reappears in your hand immediately after dealing damage. You can therefore make iterative thrown weapon attacks with the same weapon.

Because it is magically attuned to you, the weapon adds your highest ability bonus to attack and damage, instead of what it would normally use. However, an attack made with it is subject to spell resistance, using your class level as your effective caster level.

The weapon represents you on a spiritual level, and its type should be a manifestation of your inner personality. A character with multiple facets to his personality who summons multiple soul weapons may select different types for his weapons. If your inner self changes drastically at some point, the weapon type your soul weapon may change as well. It otherwise remains the same type that you initially chose.

A soul weapon can be enchanted as a normal magic weapon by meditating for 1 hour per +1 enhancement or ability, and using mystical incense costing the same price as the upgrade would have costed. Ammunition enhancements cost double their normal price. With 1 hour of meditation, you can change the abilities, once per day.

Soul Armor (Su)

You may summon a suit of soul armor, which has the following properties:

You may summon a suit of soul armor as a standard action. You may summon a shield with the armor during the same action, if you wish. You must be proficient with the type of armor and/or shield that you summon. Your armor is attached to your body and cannot be removed unless you dismiss it (as a free action).

The armor grants the same bonus to armor class that a normal suit of armor of the same type would grant, and has the same armor check penalty, maximum speed, arcane spell failure, and maximum Dexterity bonus, but is weightless.

The armor is made out of force, and therefore applies its AC bonus to ethereal and incorporeal attacks. It is treated as masterwork. At your option, the armor is metaphorical, and your normal clothes are shown. If you wear armor, you lose the benefits of his Soul Armor until you remove it. Shields cannot be made metaphorical.

Because the armor is magically attuned to you, it applies its AC bonus (including any enhancement bonus) to touch attacks, and grants spell resistance equal to 10 + your class level.

Like a soul weapon, your initial choice of armor type is permanent, unless you go through major character development which changes your personality or sense of self.

A suit of soul armor can be enchanted as a normal magic armor by meditating for 1 hour per +1 enhancement or ability, and using mystical incense costing the same price as the upgrade would have costed. With 1 hour of meditation, you can change the abilities, once per day.

Toughness (Ex)

Instead of rolling for hit points at each level, you receive 1.5x the maximum value.

A Abilities

A Abilities are gained at first level, and are upgraded twice. They represent an ability which has some substance, instead of just being a scaling number.

Armor Mastery (Ex)

You ignore all armor check penalties, speed penalties, maximum Dexterity bonuses, and arcane spell failure from wearing light armor. At level 9, this applies to medium armor as well. At level 17, this applies to heavy armor as well. You must be proficient with the given armor type for Armor Mastery to function with it.

Combat Style (Ex)

Choose a feat you meet the requirements of which serves as a prerequisite for at least two other feats. While wearing no more armor than what your proficiencies granted you, you gain the use of that feat. At levels 9 and 17, you gain the use of another feat in that chain that you meet the requirements of. If you already have or later gain any of these feats, you may replace that feat with any other feat that you meet the requirements of.

Keen Eyes (Ex)

You receive Trapfinding as a scout. At level 9, you receive Blindsense as a scout. At level 17, you receive Blindsight as a scout. You also receive a +1 bonus to initiative at each interval.

Flurry of Blows (Ex)

You receive an extra attack during a full attack at your highest attack bonus, and an additional extra attack at level 17. At level 9 you receive an extra attack during a standard attack action.

Free Movement (Ex)

Your movement cannot be impeded by difficult terrain. At level 9, you can bypass all mundane and magical effects which impede movement, as listed under the freedom of movement spell description, unless that effect would cease your movement entirely, such as paralysis, stun, or grappling. At level 17, you can end any movement-stopping effect on you as a full-round action. This includes all effects listed under the freedom spell description, as well as dazing, and possibly others, at your DM's discretion. It does not cover external barriers, such as forcecages. You may use this ability even when you normally could not take actions.

All of your movement speeds are increased by +10 feet at each interval.

Rage (Ex)

As a barbarian's rage. At levels 1, 9, and 17, your Strength and Constitution increase by +4 while raging, and your Will saves increase by +1 while raging. Your AC decreases by -2 while raging, though this penalty does not increase. Unlike normal rage, you are fatigued until you have rested for 8 hours.

Rage alternatives or equivalents, such as Whirling Frenzy or Defensive Stance, use similar numbers. Variants are listed in the table below. Rages may be used 3 times per day, plus 1/day at each additional interval, and last until the end of the encounter.

{table=head]Rage Equivalent|Level 1|Level 9|Level 17|Special
Rage|+4 Strength, +4 Constitution|+4 Strength, +4 Constitution|+4 Strength, +4 Constitution|-2 AC
Whirling Frenzy|+4 Strength, +1 Reflex|+4 Strength, +1 Reflex|+4 Strength, +1 Reflex|Extra attack in full attack but -2 on all attacks
Defensive Stance|+4 Constitution, +1 Dodge AC|+4 Constitution, +1 Dodge AC|+4 Constitution, +1 Dodge AC|+2 all saves, 1 move action takes 1 round
Primal Scream (Feral Frenzy)|+4 Dexterity, 1d6 damage bite attack|+4 Dexterity, free Intimidate check to demoralize vs. all watching you Scream|+4 Dexterity, fast healing 5 during Frenzy|-2 to AC
Spell Rage|+4 Strength, +1 spell/ability DCs|+4 Strength, +1 spell/ability DCs|+4 Strength, +1 spell/ability DCs|-2 AC, can use any skills or feats, and spells with casting time <= 1 round[/table]

Skill Finesse (Ex)

Select a single skill set below. You receive a +2 bonus on all of the skills in it at each interval, and one free skill trick that you qualify for at each interval, as long as it applies to one of the skills in your chosen set. You must be trained in a skill to gain a bonus to it.

Sensory: Gather Information, Search, Spot, Listen, Sense Motive
Academic: Knowledge (any trained), Heal, Concentration, Appraise, Decipher Script, Spellcraft
Athletic: Jump, Climb, Swim, Survival, Ride
Elegant: Balance, Tumble, Perform (any trained), Escape Artist
Technical: Forgery, Use Rope, Open Lock, Disable Device, Craft (any trained)
Sneaky: Hide, Move Silently, Disguise, Sleight of Hand
Coercive: Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate, Handle Animal

Speedy (Ex)

You may take extra actions in a round, according to the following table. At level 17, you may give up one of your extra swift, move, and standard usages per encounter to take an extra full-round action instead.

{table=head]Level|Extra Swift/Immediate Actions|Extra Move Actions|Extra Standard Actions
1|1/encounter|0/encounter|0/encounter
9|2/encounter|1/encounter|0/encounter
17|3/encounter|2/encounter|1/encounter[/table]

B Abilities

B Abilities are gained at level 2, and are improved every other level after 2. They are abilities which scale nicely with your level, and tend to be powerful. They represent your combat style.

Bonus Feats

You receive 1 bonus feat per 2 levels. You must meet the requirements of the feat you select. If you already have or later gain any of these feats, you may replace that feat with any other feat that you meet the requirements of.

Cunning Brilliance

Through pure talent and research, you've managed to duplicate various other class features, though to a lesser degree. Once per day, you can gain any Scaling ability you choose, although it functions as an ability of 3/4 of your class level. You gain it for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence modifier.

Any ability score-based ability goes off of your Intelligence modifier instead of what is listed, and any AP or other prerequisites are ignored. If you select an ability with a number of options, such as Domains, you pick the options the first time, then receive the same options every time you choose that ability.

At each additional interval, you can do this an additional time per day. Using this ability while a previous usage is still in effect ends the duration of the previous usage. For the purposes of other ability prerequisites, you are considered to have every Scaling ability.

Improved Power Attack (Ex)

You receive the Power Attack feat as a bonus feat. In addition, you receive an extra +1 damage bonus per -1 attack penalty taken when using the Power Attack feat, to a maximum of half your class level. When wielding a two-handed weapon, the damage bonus is doubled.

Improved Masterful Strike (Ex)

You receive the Masterful Strike feat as a bonus feat (in the spoiler below). Your damage cap for Masterful Strike is increased by +1 per interval.

Masterful Strike

Prerequisite

Dex 13.

Benefit

Any time your attack roll exceeds your target's AC, you deal bonus damage on the attack equal to the amount you exceeded it by. The bonus damage cannot be greater than your base attack bonus. This ability does not function with spells, or against creatures immune to critical hits.

Special

When attacking with a one-handed weapon, with nothing in your offhand, or with a two-handed ranged weapon, the damage bonus is multiplied by 1.5.

Mana Burn (Su)

Any damage you deal to a creature capable of casting spells or spell-like abilities is increased by half your class level.

Any time you deal at least 1 point of damage to a creature capable of casting spells or spell-like abilities, it loses 1 spell level worth of spell slots or SLA uses per day per damage you dealt, to a maximum of half your class level, as if the spell or SLA had just been cast, but fizzled. SLAs with unlimited uses, or uses measured by time greater than daily, are not affected. Those measured by time less than daily, such as per encounter or round, are still affected.

The spell slots or SLA uses per day lost are chosen from spell levels of your choosing, as long as you can burn at least that many spell levels. Upon hitting your target, you are given knowledge of its available spells so that you may make an educated decision. At your option, you may delay the burning of spell slots until the end of your turn. Accumulated strikes could burn a higher level slot.

Whenever your mana burn damage is dealt, the target is also subjected to a greater dispel magic effect which affects only them. Your caster level for this effect is equal to your class level.

Maneuvers

You gain the ability to initiate maneuvers. You can change your readied maneuvers by practicing for 5 minutes. You can replenish all expended maneuvers in combat by taking 1 round to gather yourself (taking no other actions). You gain maneuvers known, maneuvers readied, and stances known according to the table. You may select your maneuvers from three disciplines of your choice.

At each interval, you may switch out a maneuver you know for a different one.

{table=head]Level|Maneuvers Known|Maneuvers Readied|Stances Known
1|0|0|0
2|3|3|1
3|3|3|1
4|4|4|2
5|4|4|2
6|6|4|3
7|6|4|3
8|7|5|3
9|7|5|3
10|8|5|4
11|8|5|4
12|9|6|4
13|9|6|4
14|10|6|4
15|10|6|4
16|11|7|5
17|11|7|5
18|12|7|5
19|12|7|5
20|13|8|5[/table]

Martial Arts (Ex)

You may use any part of your body to deliver an unarmed strike. Your unarmed strikes are treated as manufactured or natural weapons, whichever is more beneficial to you. Your unarmed strike is never treated as offhand. You receive Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. In addition, properties of your unarmed strike increase as below. Damage values are for a Medium sized character.

{table=head]Level|Damage|Critical Threat Range|Critical Multiplier
2|1d4|20|x2
4|1d6|19-20|x2
6|1d8|19-20|x2
8|1d10|19-20|x3
10|1d12|19-20|x3
12|2d8|18-20|x3
14|2d10|18-20|x3
16|2d12|18-20|x4
18|4d8|18-20|x4
20|4d10|18-20|x4[/table]

When wielding a martial arts weapon (gauntlet, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham), you may replace the relevant properties of that weapon with your unarmed strike properties, if you wish. Other weapons may be considered martial arts weapons, according to your DM.

When wielding a quarterstaff, both sides deal the listed damage. When wielding a weapon with a damage die size greater or less than 1d6, increase or reduce the damage on the table by an equal number of steps. As gauntlets are considered to be unarmed attacks, their damage is not reduced.

Mighty Soul Weapon - Requires Soul Weapon

Your soul weapon receives a +2 enhancement bonus per 2 levels without paying any costs, which cannot be added to. +1 of this goes to attack and damage, while the other +1 must be used on abilities. With 1 hour of meditation, you can change the abilities, once per day. If you're using two soul weapons, each weapon gets the +2 bonus per 2 levels.

Mighty Soul Armor - Requires Soul Armor

As Mighty Soul Weapon, but with your Soul Armor. If you're using an armor and a shield, each item gets the +2 bonus per 2 levels.

Shapeshift (Su)

You receive the ability to aesthetically become one creature of your choosing, and while in this form your combat prowess improves. You may shift forms once per hour, as a full-round action, and may stay in your form for up to 1 minute/2 levels, though you may end it prematurely as a full-round action.

Your form has the following aspects:

You may re-assign which ability score your base ability scores are applied to.
If your new form cannot wield weapons, your wielded weapon(s) become natural attacks which effectively function the same (including iterative attacks, etc). Just change the names to claw, bite, tentacle, slam, or whatever else is appropriate. The weapon must share at least one damage type with the natural attack.
If your new form cannot wear armor, any armor that you are wearing is transformed into natural armor. This natural armor is not treated as an enhancement bonus, so it stacks with an amulet of natural armor or similar. Nonmagical clothing is melded into your new form.
If your new form cannot wear any miscellaneous equipped items (such as headbands of intellect or cloaks of resistance), they are melded into your new form, but continue to give their normal bonus. Items that require activation require the same action as normal to activate. If it is required to physically be there (such as a scabbard of keen edges), it can't be activated, but if it isn't (such as a belt of battle), it may still be used.
Other wielded or carried items (such as shields, potions, or bags of holding) are melded into your new form and rendered unusable, unless your new form can wield or carry the item.
You may choose to have any items melded into your new form as if you couldn't use them, even if you otherwise could.
Your type changes to match that of the creature you aesthetically represent. Subtypes may be added, at the DM's discretion. You may not select undead, construct, ooze, or elemental as a type, unless you gain the appropriate aspect from the list below.

At level 2, and every 4 levels after that, you may a +4 racial bonus to an ability score of your form and +2 racial bonus to a different ability score of your form.

At level 4, and every 4 levels after that, you may select from the list below an additional aspect to add to your form. All aspects are Extraordinary abilities and all bonuses are racial bonuses, if applicable. At the DM's option, you may only take aspects related to the creature that you aesthetically represent.

A flight speed equal to your base land speed with Average maneuverability. Taking this aspect twice doubles your base flight speed and gives you Good maneuverability.
A burrow speed equal to half your base land speed. Taking this aspect twice doubles your base burrow speed and grants you the Earth Glide special quality.
A swim speed equal to your base land speed and the Amphibious special quality.
A climb speed as the spell spider climb.
The Trip special quality. You gain no bonus to your check modifier.
The Improved Grab special quality. Taking this aspect twice grants the Constrict special quality, dealing damage equal to one of your attacks.
The Pounce special quality.
The Rake special quality. For every two attacks that you successfully hit with during a round, not counting rake attacks, you automatically hit with another attack.
An injury poison delivered by one of your natural attacks. The primary damage is 1d6 ability damage to the ability score of your choice, and the secondary damage is the same amount of ability damage, which may be applied to the same ability score or a different one. The save DC is Constitution-based. Taking this aspect more than once allows additional attacks to apply your poison.
One of your natural attacks becomes ranged, by throwing spines or similar. It receives a range of 30 feet, which can by doubled or halved if you become larger or smaller. Taking this aspect more than once can make more of your natural attacks ranged.
The Trample special quality, dealing damage equal to (an attack from one of your natural weapons of your choice) x 1.5. The save DC is Strength-based.
The Scent special quality and blindsense 30 feet.
Darkvision. Taking this aspect twice grants blindsight 30 feet.
The Powerful Charge special quality, doubling your damage on a charge. This bonus does not stack with a lance's increase in damage for charging while mounted.
Tremorsense 60 feet. Taking this aspect twice increases the range to 1 mile.
Fast healing 1/4 levels. Taking this aspect twice increases your fast healing by 1/2 levels instead.
Natural armor 1/4 levels. This natural armor stacks with the base natural armor you get for transforming while wearing armor.
An increase or decrease in size by 1 size category. Taking this aspect twice increases or decreases your size by an additional 1 size category. Worn items change size along with you, even if they weren't melded into your new form.
Type change to undead or construct. Taking this aspect twice allows a type change to elemental or ooze.

All customization options are chosen once you get this ability and can never be changed. Different forms can be gotten with the Multishift C ability. If you already have one part of an aspect that you can take twice, you might have to only take that aspect once to get the second effect, with your DM's approval.

Taking this ability grants you the Shapechanger subtype even when not shifted.

Skirmish (Ex)

As the scout ability. Recieve +1d6 damage at level 2, +1 AC at level 4, and continue alternating in that fashion.

Smite (Su)

Select an alignment along one axis (Good, Evil, Chaotic, or Lawful). Any time you make an attack against a creature of that alignment, you may deal 1 extra damage per class level, and add your Wisdom bonus to your attack roll.

You may use Smite once per encounter per interval.

Sneak Attack (Ex)

As the rogue ability. Gives 1d6 sneak attack damage per two levels. If your target is not currently flatfooted or flanked, you may roll two attack rolls instead of one. If both hit, you can sneak attack that target, but if either one misses, you miss.

C Abilities

C Abilities are gained at third level, and upgrade four more times. They represent miscellaneous abilities which give a small, yet significant bonus to something important, which can help flesh out or flavor your character.

Animal Style (Ex)

You study one of the following five schools of fighting, and may select one of the listed bonuses at each interval. You can't combine two animal styles with an extra C ability; you may only do so with the Style Fusion capstone.

Dragon

Danger Sense: You receive Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat. It goes off of your Wisdom modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier.
Counterattack: If an opponent within your threatened area misses an attack roll against you, you may make an Attack of Opportunity against him. The counterattack receives a bonus on its attack roll equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Exploit Aggression: Attack penalties for using Power Attack are doubled against you.
Dragon Dodge: You receive a dodge bonus to AC equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Exploit Advantage: You can an extra attack at your full attack bonus any time you would normally get an Attack of Opportunity.

Crane

Lunging Strike: You receive a 5 foot reach increase on all melee attacks.
Combat Dance: You can make additional 5-foot steps in a round equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Great Wall: Your threatened squares count as difficult terrain, which take additional feet of movement to enter equal to your Wisdom modifier, rounded up to the nearest 5.
Flexible Crane: You receive a bonus on saving throws equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Distance Sense: When wielding a reach weapon, you have no minimum range.

Tiger

Strong Like Tiger: You receive a bonus on all damage rolls equal to your Wisdom modifier. When wielding a two-handed weapon, this bonus is increased by 1.5x.
Instinct: You receive a bonus on bull rush and sunder checks equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Weapon Counter: If an opponent within range misses an attack roll against you, you may make a sunder attempt against his weapon.
Destruction Sense: Attack penalties for using Power Attack are reduced by your Wisdom modifier, to a minimum of 0.
Final Strike: You may make a single attack as a full-attack action, doubling its damage for each iterative attack you gave up.

Snake

Calculated Strike: You receive a bonus on attack rolls equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Constrictor: You receive a bonus on grapple checks equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Snakebite: Any precision-based damage you deal is increased by your Wisdom modifier.
Vulnerability Sense: Any time you successfully hit with a melee attack, and have hands free to grapple, you may immediately begin a grapple attempt.
Improved Grapple: You receive Improved Grapple as a bonus feat.

Leopard

Feral: You may make one additional attack in a full attack action at your full attack bonus.
Lightning Maneuver: You receive a bonus on disarm and trip checks equal to your Wisdom modifier.
First Strike: You receive a bonus on initiative equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Speed Sense: Every 5 feet you move in a round increases your attack and AC by 1 for 1 round.
Leopard Speed: Your movement speed is increased by 5 x your Wisdom modifier.

Crippling Strike (Ex) - Requires Death Attack

The victim of your death attack takes 1 ability damage to an ability score of your choice, as long as you succeed on your attack roll. This increases by +1 with each additional interval.

Energy Resistance (Ex)

Select one, two, or three energy types. If you selected one, your resistance to that energy type increases by 6 at each interval. If you selected two, your resistance to those energy types increases by 3 at each interval. If you selected three, your resistance to those energy types increases by 2 at each interval.

Favored Enemy (Ex)

Select a group of favored enemies from the list below. You receive a +2 insight bonus on skill checks against your favored enemy. You receive a +1 insight bonus on attack rolls, armor class, ability DCs, and saving throws against your favored enemy. These bonuses increase by the same number at each additional interval.

Natural: Animals, magical beasts, vermin, plants
Humanoid: Humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants
Alien: Oozes, constructs, aberrations
Spirit: Elementals, undead, outsiders, fey
Magical: Any creature capable of casting spells or spell-like abilities.
Evil: Any creature with an evil alignment
Good: Any creature with a good alignment
Chaotic: Any creature with a chaotic alignment
Lawful: Any creature with a lawful alignment

Marshal (Ex)

As Tactics, except that it is based off of your Charisma bonus, and you grant the full bonus to your allies, but only half to yourself. You can grant each of your allies one extra move action per encounter, instead of yourself, as an immediate action. Unlike Tactics, multiple Marshal bonuses do not stack.

Multishift - Requires Shapeshift

At each interval, you receive an additional form. You may select different aspects and ability score bonuses for this form. Your shapeshift uses per hour are not increased.

Natural Resilience (Ex)

You gain damage reduction 1/- or 2/adamatine, at your option, increasing by 1/- or 2/adamantine at each interval.

Tactics (Ex)

You receive your Intelligence modifier as a circumstance bonus to one stat from the list below. At each interval after the first, you may choose an additional stat. You may also grant half this bonus to one willing ally who can hear or see you, plus one ally per interval. This bonus stacks with their own Tactics ability, if they have it.

Additionally, once per encounter, you can take one extra move action in a round, as an immediate action.

Attack of Opportunity attack rolls
AC and saving throws vs objects (traps, earthquakes, etc.)
Flanking attack bonus
AC while flatfooted (up to a maximum of your non-flatfooted AC)
Opposed skill checks
Critical confirmation rolls
Disarm, trip, bull rush, grapple, feint, overrun, and sunder attempts
Initiative during a surprise round (can change initiative order during that round, but reverts to normal for subsequent rounds)

Transformation (Ex)

You make permanent changes to your form, mimicking a reduced version of a template or number of templates. Examples are in the spoiler below.

Lich

I: Lich Touch 1d8+(1 per interval)
II: DR 5/bludgeoning
III: Fear Aura
IV: DR 10/bludgeoning and magic (replaces previous DR)
V: Paralyzing Touch

Saint

If you ever willingly commit an evil act, you lose your saint abilities until you atone.

I: Wisdom as insight bonus to AC
II: DR 5/magic
III: Holy Touch
IV: DR 10/evil (replaces previous DR)
V: Protective Aura

Half-Dragon

All abilities are based on your chosen dragon type, as per the template. Taking this ability allows you to count as dragonblooded for spells and feats that require it.

I: Breath weapon 2d8, immune to sleep
II: Natural armor +2, resist energy type 5
III: Breath weapon 4d8, wings and flight speed equal to base land speed (maximum 120 ft) with average maneuverability
IV: Natural armor +4, resist energy type 10 (replaces previous natural armor and energy resistance)
V: Breath weapon 6d8, immune to paralysis

Optimization

I: Immunity to sleep, fatigue, and exhaustion
II: Immunity to poison and disease
III: Immunity to nausea and the sickened condition
IV: Immunity to paralysis
V: Immunity to energy drain

Juggernaut

Can be taken by warforged only, unless taken alongside Optimization as an extra C ability. A warforged who takes this ability has his ability to be healed removed. The generic warforged race can give up its bonus feat and ability to be healed to apply the remainder of Optimization and qualify for Juggernaut.

I: Immunity to nonlethal damage
II: Immunity to critical hits
III: Immunity to mind-affecting effects
IV: Immunity to death effects and necromancy effects
V: Immunity to ability damage and ability drain

Sudden Strike (Ex)

As the ninja ability. Your sudden strikes deal 1d6 damage per interval.

D Abilities

D Abilties are gained at fifth level, and are improved once. They are useful at all levels, so they are not required to scale much.

Camouflage (Ex)

As the ranger ability. At level 13, you gain Hide in Plain Sight as the ranger ability. However, you may select either urban or natural terrain. This choice applies to both abilities.

Diamond Body (Su)

You have immunity to all poisons and diseases. At level 13, you receive immunity to all ability damage and drain.

Dungeon Crasher (Ex)

You receive the ability to deal damage to foes if you bull rush them into a solid object, as the fighter ACF. Your dungeon crash does (4d6 + 2x Strength bonus) damage. At level 13, this becomes (8d6 + 3x Strength bonus).

You gain a +2 bonus to saves and AC vs traps and a +5 bonus on Strength checks to break objects at each interval.

Evasion (Ex)

Select one type of saving throw: Fortitude, Reflex, or Will. Whenever you make a save of that type against an effect which retains a partial effect on a successful save, you instead do not suffer any effect. At level 13, you only suffer the partial effect if you fail your save. If there is no partial effect listed, your DM decides something suitable, such as halved duration or damage. If nothing is suitable, you have a 50% chance to be affected or unaffected.

You may not select Evasion as an ability unless you have good progression in the specified saving throw.

Regeneration (Ex)

Your pinch healing ability becomes fast healing, and increases by 2 at each interval. At level 13, it turns into regeneration bypassed by two energy types of your choice. You may only take this ability if you choose a race that comes with pinch healing.

Shield Block (Ex)

As an immediate action, you can block half of the damage from a single attack.

Additionally, as an immediate action, you may take the damage dealt to an ally within your move speed range from one attack, and block half of it. You move into his square, and lose your move action on your next turn. You may also take damaging spells targeting an ally, but you take the full damage.

At level 13, you can block all of the damage from the attack. You may also take non-damaging effects targeting an ally, but you take the full force of it.

You must be wielding a shield to use Shield Block. Animated shields and bucklers do not qualify. No damage is blocked from attacks which ignore your shield bonus to AC.

Snipe (Ex)

You suffer only half the normal penalty on Spot checks because of distance, half the normal penalty on ranged attacks per range increment, and half the normal penalty for using the Hide skill directly after a ranged attack. At level 13, these penalties are halved again, to one-fourth of their original value.

Stowaway (Su)

As the hellbreaker ability, except the caster is always treated as willing. At level 13, you gain the Master of Doors ability, as a silver key.

Supernatural Resilience (Su)

At level 5, you receive damage reduction 5. Your damage reduction is overcome by magic and either cold iron, silver, good, evil, lawful, or chaotic, at your option. Both are required to overcome it. At level 13, this damage reduction increases to 15.

If you choose for an alignment to overcome your damage reduction, you must be of the opposite alignment. If you ever become neutral or of that alignment, you lose your damage reduction until you regain your old alignment.

Telepathic Static (Su)

You gain Telepathic Static, as the hellbreaker ability, except that Divination spells simply don't function within the radius. At level 13, you gain the Foil Summoning ability, except that Conjuration (Calling) and Conjuration (Summoning) spells simply don't function within the radius, and any called or summoned creatures wink out while you remain there. They return when you leave, if the duration of their spell is not over yet.

Tireless Rage (Ex) - Requires Rage

You are not fatigued when your rage ends. At level 13, you do not become dying, disabled, or dead from hit point damage until your rage ends.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex)

As the barbarian ability Improved Uncanny Dodge, except that higher level rogues can't flank you either. Adds Uncanny Dodge at level 13.

Capstone Abilities

The Capstone Ability of your character will top off its achievements. It is a very powerful ability which either brings together the abilities you have previously learned, or grants you a spectacular new power.

Adept Adapter (Ex) - Requires Bonus Feats, Combat Style, Cunning Brilliance, Skill Finesse, or Tactics

Three times per encounter, for 1 round, you may treat yourself as having a feat you qualify for or as being trained in any one skill. You may initiate this ability as a free action, as part of another action.

Antimagic Soul (Su) - Requires Control Magic

You permanently gain the effects of mind blank and true seeing, and become immune to one school of magic of your choice. You cannot be affected by any spells cast of that school. Even if they only give a benefit to their caster, the caster does not gain that benefit against you.

Any spellcasting or spell-like abilities you have are lost, and you can never gain or use spellcasting or spell-like abilities ever again, nor can you make use of beneficial spells or spell-like abilities cast on you by others. You can still make use of any magic items and be affected by harmful spells.

Apotheosis (Ex) - Requires Transformation

You gain the full template or templates which your transformation mimics. The combined bonuses of the template(s) cannot be more powerful than other capstone abilities. Aspects of the template(s) may be changed or removed to fit this limitation. The bonuses from Transformation are melded into the template.

Canny Assassin (Ex) - Requires Death Attack, Skirmish, Sneak Attack, or Sudden Strike

Your additional damage from Death Attack, Skirmish, Sneak Attack, or Sudden Strike is now multiplied as normal if you get a critical hit. Your critical threat range with any weapon is now doubled if the creature is flatfooted or flanked, and you receive a +5 bonus on critical confirmation rolls. This stacks with other threat range increasing effects.

Doubleform - Requires Multishift

Select two forms you have. You may shift into a form which is an amalgam of those two forms, taking on the extra aspects of each. This form adds +4 to two ability scores every 4 levels starting with level 2, instead of the normal. In addition, the number of times you may shift per hour is increased by 2.

Elemental Scion (Ex) - Requires Energy Resistance

If you chose one energy type, you gain immunity to that energy type. If you chose two energy types, you take 75% less damage from them. If you chose three energy types, you take 50% less damage from them. This ability is applied before your energy resistance.

Your type changes to elemental. If you chose one energy type, you receive that as a subtype, but you do not gain any associated vulnerabilities.

Execute (Ex) - Requires Improved Masterful Strike

Any time your attack roll exceeds your target's AC by more than its HD, it is instantly slain. This ability does not function with spells, or against creatures immune to critical hits.

Feral Charge (Ex) - Requires Pounce

When charging, you may move in any sort of shape. In addition, you can make a full attack against every creature that was within reach during your movement, but not more than once per creature.

Impetuous Endurance (Ex) - Requires Evasion, Free Movement, Toughness, or Uncanny Dodge

You no longer fail a save on a roll of 1, unless you fail to beat the save DC. Attack rolls of 20 no longer automatically hit you, unless they normally would.

Invulnerable (Ex) - Requires Natural Resilience

You take half damage from physical attacks. This ability is applied before your damage reduction.

Keen Flurry (Ex) - Requires Flurry of Blows or Keen Eyes

You reduce the penalty on iterative attack rolls by 5 (turning +20/+15+/+10/+5 into +20/+20/+15/+10). You also receive an additional attack during a standard attack action.

Legendary Sniper (Ex) - Requires Snipe

You suffer no penalties for firing a ranged weapon at a large distance, and can hit a target up to 15 range increments away, instead of 10. You suffer no penalty for using the Hide skill immediately after firing a ranged weapon. Your critical threat range for any ranged weapon is increased by 1, and you receive a +5 bonus on critical confirmation rolls. This stacks with other critical threat range increasing effects.

Maim (Ex) - Requires Death Attack

The target of your death attack must make a Fortitude save (DC 20 + Dexterity modifier) or be paralyzed permanently. If your target is not subject to paralysis, and you find this out with an appropriate Knowledge check, you may inflict permanently another status condition of your desire, as long as it does not depend on external influence or variables (such as ability damage or blown away). You also may not select a condition which would reduce your target's hit points, such as dying, dead, or disabled.

Mana Blaze (Su) - Requires Mana Burn

Your greater dispel magic effect is changed into a disjunction effect (though it only targets the creature you attacked, as a targeted greater dispel magic would), and it is applied whenever you make an attack roll, instead of when you deal mana burn damage.

Maneuver Mastery - Requires Maneuvers

Choose one of the following:

You may have two stances active at the same time.
You may activate two boosts at the same time.

Martial Arts Mastery (Ex) - Requires Martial Arts

Your unarmed strike's damage is increased to 5d10, its critical threat range is increased to 17-20/x5, and you receive a +5 attack bonus with unarmed strikes.

Mighty Rage (Ex) - Requires Rage

The scaling bonuses from your rage are doubled. For Defensive Stance, this would double the Constitution and dodge AC bonuses only, for example.

Mystical Combat Focus (Su) - Requires Combat Focus

You gain the following additional special ability options.

Fast healing equal to your BAB for 1 minute
Ethereal for 1 minute

Out of Mind (Su) - Requires Camouflage

You are permanently under the effects of a sequester spell, but do not become comatose, and you are treated as being invisible as the superior invisibility spell, instead of invisibility. You can lower or raise this effect as a swift action.

Perfect Block (Ex) - Requires Shield Block

You can now block any single effect, including non-damaging effects, touch attacks, and damaging spells.

Perfect Self (Su) - Requires Diamond Body

You gain immunity to mind-affecting effects, and are no longer subject to critical hits. You no longer take physical penalties due to aging, and any previous penalties are removed. You also no longer have a maximum age. Your type becomes Outsider, Dragon, or something else suitable to your style of meditation.

Planeswalker (Su) - Requires Stowaway

You are constantly aware of all extraplanar portals on the plane you are currently on. You can freely enter any of them, and whenever you go onto a plane or are subject to a teleportation effect, you can choose to enter from any of the extraplanar portals on the plane you're going to, instead of where you would have normally ended up.

An extraplanar portal is visible to you for 1 round per caster level after a caster uses a Conjuration (Teleportation) spell to go anywhere, and wherever an extraplanar space is created, if there is no stated entrance, for as long as the space exists. Extraplanar portals outside of this definition are also within the realm of this ability.

You can use plane shift (self only) at-will.

Quicken Self (Ex) - Requires Speedy

You may give up any one of your Speedy uses per encounter to cause a single attack or weapon-like spell to miss against you. You may choose whether or not to expend the ability after seeing the result of the roll.

Seasoned Hunter (Ex) - Requires Favored Enemy or Smite

You may take 15 on any d20 rolls involving your favored enemy, and any less-than-d20 rolls (such as damage rolls) you make involving your favored enemy are maximized.

Seek and Negate (Su) - Requires Telepathic Static

An antimagic cone with a length of 100 feet spreads forth from your eyes, similar to a beholder's antimagic eye. You may turn it off or on as a free action, even when it's not your turn. The radii of your Telepathic Static abilities are increased to 100 feet.

Shift Mastery (Ex) - Requires Shapeshift

You may shapeshift as an immediate action. You may shift an unlimited number of times per hour, and may stay in your form for an unlimited amount of time.

Soul Conduit (Su) - Requires Soul Weapon or Soul Armor

Your weapon and/or armor becomes an actual conduit for your soul, preventing any soul-destroying or soul-trapping effects from affecting you. In addition, you never suffer negative effects from raise dead or similar spells.

Style Fusion (Ex) - Requires Animal Style

You receive all of the benefits of another animal style.

Supreme Power Attack (Ex) - Requires Improved Power Attack

Your maximum damage bonus from Improved Power Attack is increased to equal your class level. When wielding a two-handed weapon, the damage bonus is still doubled.

Tarrasquekin (Ex) - Requires Regeneration or Supernatural Resilience

You lose your supernatural damage reduction, and instead have regeneration 15, which can be overcome by the same thing your damage reduction was.

If you took Regeneration, your regeneration value is increased to 15, and is no longer overcome by one of your chosen energy types.

True Inspiration - Requires Marshal

You may now grant each ally one full-round action per encounter, instead of one move action.

My next post contains abilities with a supernatural focus, useful for spellcasters and spellswords alike.

InaVegt
2008-10-23, 12:16 PM
A suggested ability.

Force missile (SP) (Scalable one)

Choose one simple or martial missile weapon, you can, as a standard action, attack as though using this weapon. Instead of BAB + Dex you use character level + the modifier of one mental ability score (chosen at chargen), in addition, this attack deals force damage instead of normal damage. This attack deals the weapon's base damage + your character level.

[hr]

I'd like to suggest using abilities building off others more, but trees instead of chains are good in such a case.

Baron Corm
2008-10-24, 12:47 PM
Scaling Abilities

Arcane Talent (Sp)

Select a spell school. You gain a bonus on Spellcraft checks and caster level checks related to that school equal to your Charisma modifier. You also get a special ability, depending on the school you chose. Each ability may be used once per encounter. DCs are equal to (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma modifier), and your caster level is equal to your class level.

Abrupt Jaunt (Conjuration): You teleport 10 feet per class level, as the dimension door spell.
Urgent Shield (Abjuration): You gain a shield bonus to AC equal to your Charisma modifier for 1 round per class level. If you currently have a shield spell active, this ability makes the shield larger instead of creating a new shield, causing the bonuses to stack.
Glimpse Peril (Divination): You gain an insight bonus to your saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier for 1 round per class level.
Instant Daze (Enchantment): Target creature is dazed for 1 round per class level if it fails a Will save. This is a mind-affecting effect. Each round, the creature may make another save to break free.
Counterfire (Evocation): You cast a magic missile spell at target creature, which fires 1 missile per class level, instead of the usual amount.
Brief Figment (Illusion): You cast a mislead spell, except the double lasts for 1 round per class level, and you disappear as an invisibility spell, instead of greater invisibility. The duration of your disappearance is 1 round per class level.
Cursed Glance (Necromancy): Target creature receives a penalty to AC and saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier for 1 round per class level if it fails a Fortitude or Will save. Both must be passed in order to save.
Sudden Shift (Transmutation): You gain a climb, fly, or swim speed equal to your base land speed for 1 round per class level. If it's a fly speed, you have average maneuverability.

This ability can be taken even if you cannot cast spells. However, if you later take Spellcasting, one of the schools you choose to cast from must be the school you selected with this ability. You cannot select the General school to base this ability off of.

Companion

You receive a loyal and obedient ally with 1 HD. Your companion receives +1 HD, +1 natural armor, and +1 to three ability scores of your choice at each additional interval. Animal companions do not increase in Intelligence, but they can speak with you telepathically. Telepathic conversations with an Animal would be more likely to be made of emotions and images, rather than words. This telepathy is a supernatural ability. Additional statistics for your companion are in the spoiler below.

Instead of gaining racial hit dice, your companion advances in the generic Combat NPC class, gaining class levels at each interval equal to the amount of hit dice it would normally have gained. It starts with 1 class level instead of a racial hit die, though any benefits and drawbacks from its type still apply.

You must select its archetype from the prebuilt options of brute, monk, rogue, witch, or magician. It does not gain a B ability unless it starts with no more abilities than the Generic Race could have granted. Your companion may only be proficient with simple weapons and light armor if it has 3/4 BAB, or only a single simple weapon if it has 1/2 BAB.

You may discuss alternate creature choices with your DM if you begin with a weakened version. To start with a weakened version, lowering the creature's initial HD to 1 (and replacing it with the class level) is often all that is needed, though certain powerful abilities might need to be weakened or removed as well. It should have starting ability scores no greater than 17, 15, 15, 13, 11, 9, as a guideline, though talk to your DM about exact numbers. If your companion starts with lower ability scores than these, your DM may allow you to raise them to these values.

Domains (Su)

You receive the granted powers and spells of two domains. The spells are gained according to the table below. You may choose which domain is your "first" and which is your "second". If you choose an arcane domain (under Domain Wizard, here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm)), you do not get granted powers, but you do get 0th level spells. Taking a domain related to undead (such as Sun or Death) also grants you Turn or Rebuke Undead, as a cleric, though it is based off of Wisdom instead of Charisma. Taking other domains could give you Turn Undead variants, such as Turn Evil Outsider for taking the Good domain, at your DM's discretion.

Like normal domains, you may only cast one spell per day from each spell level. Your effective cleric level is equal to your class level. Your spell DCs are equal to (10 + 1/2 class level + Wisdom modifier). All domain spells are divine spells and are therefore not subject to arcane spell failure.

With your DM's permission, you may create your own domain. Miracle cannot be chosen as a domain spell without the capstone by the same name.

Spellcasting is not required to take Domains, but Domains has its own AP prerequisite, as stated in the first post.

{table=head]Domain|Spell Level|Level Gained
1st|0 or power|1
2nd|0 or power|2
1st|1|3
2nd|1|4
1st|2|5
2nd|2|6
1st|3|7
2nd|3|8
1st|4|9
2nd|4|10
1st|5|11
2nd|5|12
1st|6|13
2nd|6|14
1st|7|15
2nd|7|16
1st|8|17
2nd|8|18
1st|9|19
2nd|9|20[/table]

Lay on Hands (Su)

As the paladin ability, except it is based off of Wisdom instead of Charisma. Your effective paladin level is equal to your class level. You may subtract (5 x spell level) from the amount healed to replicate the effects of a restorative spell, such as remove curse or restoration. You must pay the cost of any material components or experience loss that the spell requires.

An evil character channels negative energy instead, and may convert his damage dealt to replicate the effects of a detrimental spell, such as bestow curse or contagion. As a general rule, this spell must be one which bestows a condition that a restorative spell is capable of curing, other than damage, but consult with your DM on a per-spell basis.

You can restore your pool of Lay on Hands healing or harm by meditating. 10 minutes of meditation restores healing or harm equal to your Wisdom modifier. The pool is not automatically replenished on a per-day basis.

Undead Mastery (Su)

You have a constant emanation of desecrate centered on yourself. If you carry around the holy symbol of a deity whose portfolio involves evil, death, or undead, it counts as an altar for purposes of the spell. You do not need to expend black onyx to cast animate dead as a spell or spell-like ability.

Your HD limits for animate dead are increased by your class level, as long as the undead creation takes place in your desecrated area. This includes HD limits for creating undead as well as the total amount you can keep at any time.

Warmage Edge

Any damage dealt by a spell you cast is increased by your class level. If applied to an Empowered spell, this damage is increased by 50%. This ability otherwise functions the same as the warmage ability. It is essentially useless without Spellcasting or Domains.

A Abilities

Bless (Su)

Once per creature per encounter, as an immediate action, you may make that creature reroll a d20 roll of 10 or less, after seeing the result. They keep the new result, whether it is better or worse. The DM does not have to reveal what the roll was for, but you are allowed a description of the creature's action.

You may bless each creature twice per encounter at level 9, and three times per encounter at level 17. You must have line of sight to a creature to bless it.

The creature receives a +1 luck bonus to his reroll. At level 9, this bonus is increased to +3. At level 17, this bonus is increased to +5.

Hellfire Blast (Sp)

As the hellfire warlock ability, except the Constitution damage cannot be healed in any way except natural healing. You receive 2d6 bonus hellfire damage at each interval.

Hex (Su)

As Bless, but the creature receives a penalty to his reroll instead of a bonus. Hex may only be used on rolls of 10 or more.

Magic Music

You gain the Countersong ability, as a bard. At level 9, you gain the Fascinate ability. At level 17, you gain the Mass Suggestion ability. None of these function without the Bardic Music B ability.

The Bardic Performances equivalent is in the spoiler below.

Enhanced Synergies (Ex)

As the bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69197) ability, except that you may enhance synergies at each interval. Does nothing unless you take the Bardic Performances B ability.

Secret Spell (Ex)

Choose one spell that you know. That spell can be cast as Silent, Stilled, and Invisible, with no increase in spell level. At each additional interval, choose another spell you know for this to apply to.

Spirit Guide (Su)

You receive a spirit guide, which is an intangible spirit that follows you around, granting you its wisdom. It allows you to reroll any Knowledge check one time if you fail it, with a +3 insight bonus per interval, and grants you Knowledge Devotion as a bonus feat.

At level 9, your spells, abilities, weapons, and armor affect incorporeal creatures and creatures on the Ethereal plane just as easily as corporeal creatures, and you can see, hear, and smell ethereal creatures as if they were on the Material Plane.

At level 17, your spirit guide can take over Concentration of a single spell or other ability requiring it at any given time, allowing you to spend your actions elsewhere. It can alternatively take control of a wielded shield, essentially giving it the animated property. It cannot perform both of these abilities at once.

You are the only one who can perceive or interact with your guide.

B Abilities

Bardic Music

You receive the Bardic Music ability, as a bard. The first ability you get is Inspire Courage, giving a +1 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls. Every other interval after level 2, this bonus increases by +1.

At level 4, you gain the Inspire Heroics ability, giving a +1 dodge bonus to AC and a +1 morale bonus to saves. Every other interval after level 4, these bonuses increase by +1.

Other than the numbers, these abilities work just as the bard abilities, except that Inspire Heroics can affect any number of allies, and the abilities are both Extraordinary instead of Supernatural. You must have Perform as a trained skill to take this ability.

There is a more complicated and ability-packed bard ability in the spoiler below. It is not recommended to have both types of bard in one campaign, as they represent the same capabilities.

Bardic Performances (Ex)

You receive one bardic performance (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69197) known at each interval. You may take Master performances if you meet their requirements. Your effective bard level is equal to your class level. You must have Perform as a trained skill to take this ability, and your bardic bonus is simply equal to half your class level.

While there is an AP prerequisite for Bardic Performances, you do not need to spend any AP to take Bardic Music.

Invocations

You can cast invocations as a warlock. You have invocations known according to the table below. You can draw from any invocations list. You may switch out an invocation you have learned for another one of the same grade whenever you gain access to a new grade of invocations. You may select invocations known from any invocation list. Invocation DCs are all equal to (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma modifier).

You receive either eldritch blast as a warlock, or a breath weapon as a dragonfire adept, increasing in damage by 1d6 at each interval. Additional information is in the spoiler below.

If you select eldritch blast, you can make iterative attacks without having to take a special blast shape. Any blast shapes can combine with this effect.

If you select breath weapon, you may choose to either receive either a breath effect (minimum levels apply) or have your breath weapon range doubled at each additional interval. Your breath weapon range may be doubled up to three times and you may receive up to six breath effects. In addition, you may count as dragonblooded for spells and feats that require it.

{table=head]Class Level|Invocations Known|Maximum Invocation Grade
1|-|-
2|3|Least
3|3|Least
4|4|Lesser
5|4|Lesser
6|5|Lesser
7|5|Lesser
8|6|Lesser
9|6|Lesser
10|7|Greater
11|7|Greater
12|8|Greater
13|8|Greater
14|9|Greater
15|9|Greater
16|10|Dark
17|10|Dark
18|11|Dark
19|11|Dark
20|12|Dark[/table]

Psionics

You gain the ability to manifest powers as a psion of your class level, and must select a psionic discipline. However, you have a different progression of power points per day and powers known. You gain 4 powers known at each interval. PP/day is in the spoiler below.

{table=head]Class Level|PP/day|Maximum Power Level Known
1|-|-
2|6|1
3|6|1
4|18|2
5|18|2
6|36|3
7|36|3
8|60|4
9|60|4
10|90|5
11|90|5
12|126|6
13|126|6
14|168|7
15|168|7
16|216|8
17|216|8
18|270|9
19|270|9
20|330|9[/table]

Any time "spell DC", "spell resistance", or similar is mentioned, you may apply it to your psionics as well. If this occurs, and Spellcasting fulfills the prerequisites of the ability, having Psionics fulfills the prerequisites of the ability.

Scaling Progression Variant
{table=head]Class Level|PP/day|Maximum Power Level Known
1|-|-
2|6|1
3|12|1
4|18|2
5|27|2
6|36|3
7|48|3
8|60|4
9|75|4
10|90|5
11|108|5
12|126|6
13|147|6
14|168|7
15|192|7
16|216|8
17|243|8
18|270|9
19|300|9
20|330|9[/table]

Spellcasting

You cast spells as a sorcerer, except that applying metamagic does not increase your casting time. You must have a Charisma score of at least (10 + spell level) to cast spells of that level. You gains spells known as shown in the following table. You may draw from any spell list with a full 9 spell levels, however you are limited to two schools of magic (this number can be increased or decreased at the DM's option). Every spell from the general school is also on your spell list. My redefined spell schools (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106586) are recommended. You cannot select miracle as a spell known. Additional information is in the spoiler below.

A spell's DC is not based on its spell level. Instead, every spell's DC is (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma modifier).

You may cast 3 spells per level per day. Your caster level is equal to your class level. All spells are arcane, even if drawn from a spell list such as the cleric's, and thus are subject to arcane spell failure.

A Charisma score of at least (X + spell level) grants bonus spells of that level equal to X/10 (rounded down). A Charisma score of 23 therefore grants 2 bonus spells per day to spell levels 0-3 and 1 bonus spell per day to spell levels 4-9 (if you can cast any).

You gain Versatile Spellcaster as a bonus feat, allowing you to spend two spell slots to cast a spell of a level one higher, as long as you can normally cast spells of that level.

Spells known are on the following table.

{table=head]Class Level|0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9
1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2|All|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3|All|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4|All|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5|All|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
6|All|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
7|All|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
8|All|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-
9|All|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-
10|All|5|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-
11|All|5|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-
12|All|5|5|5|5|3|1|-|-|-
13|All|5|5|5|5|3|1|-|-|-
14|All|5|5|5|5|5|3|1|-|-
15|All|5|5|5|5|5|3|1|-|-
16|All|5|5|5|5|5|5|3|1|-
17|All|5|5|5|5|5|5|3|1|-
18|All|5|5|5|5|5|5|5|3|1
19|All|5|5|5|5|5|5|5|3|1
20|All|5|5|5|5|5|5|5|5|3[/table]

Scaling Progression Variant
{table=head]Class Level|0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9
1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2|All|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3|All|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4|All|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5|All|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
6|All|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
7|All|5|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
8|All|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-
9|All|5|5|4|2|-|-|-|-|-
10|All|5|5|5|3|1|-|-|-|-
11|All|5|5|5|4|2|-|-|-|-
12|All|5|5|5|5|3|1|-|-|-
13|All|5|5|5|5|4|2|-|-|-
14|All|5|5|5|5|5|3|1|-|-
15|All|5|5|5|5|5|4|2|-|-
16|All|5|5|5|5|5|5|3|1|-
17|All|5|5|5|5|5|5|4|2|-
18|All|5|5|5|5|5|5|5|3|1
19|All|5|5|5|5|5|5|5|4|2
20|All|5|5|5|5|5|5|5|5|3[/table]

Low-Magic Variant
{table=head]Class Level|0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9
1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
6|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
7|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
8|5|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
9|5|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
10|5|3|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-
11|5|3|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-
12|5|3|3|3|3|1|-|-|-|-
13|5|3|3|3|3|1|-|-|-|-
14|5|3|3|3|3|3|1|-|-|-
15|5|3|3|3|3|3|1|-|-|-
16|5|3|3|3|3|3|3|1|-|-
17|5|3|3|3|3|3|3|1|-|-
18|5|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|1|-
19|5|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|1|-
20|5|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|1[/table]

Scaling Progression Variant
{table=head]Class Level|0|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9
1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
6|5|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
7|5|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
8|5|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
9|5|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
10|5|3|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-
11|5|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-
12|5|3|3|3|3|1|-|-|-|-
13|5|3|3|3|3|2|-|-|-|-
14|5|3|3|3|3|3|1|-|-|-
15|5|3|3|3|3|3|2|-|-|-
16|5|3|3|3|3|3|3|1|-|-
17|5|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|-|-
18|5|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|1|-
19|5|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|-
20|5|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|3|1[/table]

Wilding

You gain the ability to manifest powers as a psychic warrior of your class level. However, your manifesting is Intelligence-based, and you have a different progression of power points per day and powers known. You gain 2 powers known at each interval, with 2 extra at levels 2 and 4. PP/day is in the spoiler below.

{table=head]Class Level|PP/day|Maximum Power Level Known
1|-|-
2|1|1
3|1|1
4|4|2
5|4|2
6|10|3
7|10|3
8|19|3
9|19|3
10|33|4
11|33|4
12|48|4
13|48|4
14|66|5
15|66|5
16|87|5
17|87|5
18|111|6
19|111|6
20|138|6[/table]

Any time "spell DC", "spell resistance", or similar is mentioned, you may apply it to your psionics as well. If this occurs, and Spellcasting fulfills the prerequisites of the ability, having Wilding fulfills the prerequisites of the ability.

Scaling Progression Variant
{table=head]Class Level|PP/day|Maximum Power Level Known
1|-|-
2|1|1
3|2|1
4|4|2
5|6|2
6|10|3
7|14|3
8|19|3
9|26|3
10|33|4
11|40|4
12|48|4
13|56|4
14|66|5
15|76|5
16|87|5
17|98|5
18|111|6
19|124|6
20|138|6[/table]

Summon Minion (Su)

As a standard action, you may summon a minion; a minor yugoloth who is bound to you after you make a pact with its master. Minions follow any commands you give them, as long as you have one hand free to direct them (you do not have a hand free if you wield a 2-handed weapon or are carrying or wielding something in both hands). A minion's default command is to follow you around. Directing any amount of minions to take a round of different actions takes 1 move action.

Minions have one hit die per interval. They are like goblins in shape and so can wear any gear you give them that a goblin could wear. Statistics for minions are in the spoiler below.

Brutal Minion
Size/Type: Small Outsider (Evil)
Hit Dice: 1d8+7 (11 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 feet
Armor Class: 11, touch 11, flat-footed 11 (+1 size)
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+2
Attack: Claw +7 melee (1d4+5)
Full Attack: 2 claws +7 melee (1d4+5)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: -
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +2, Will -3
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 10, Con 25, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: -
Feats: -
Enviroment: Any
Organization: -
Challange Rating: 1
Treasure: None, unless equipped
Alignment: Always Neutral Evil
Advancement: 1-10 (Small)
Level Adjustment: —

Infernal Minion
Size/Type: Small Outsider (Evil)
Hit Dice: 1d8 (4 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: 30 feet
Armor Class: 16, touch 16, flat-footed 11 (+1 size, +5 dex)
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-3
Attack: Fireball +7 ranged touch (1d6 fire)
Full Attack: Fireball +7 ranged touch (1d6 fire)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Control fire
Special Qualities: Immune to fire
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +7, Will -3
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 20, Con 10, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: -
Feats: -
Enviroment: Any
Organization: -
Challange Rating: 1
Treasure: None, unless equipped
Alignment: Always Neutral Evil
Advancement: 1-10 (Small)
Level Adjustment: —

Fireball

Has a range of 30 feet.

Control Fire (Su)

An infernal minion can extinguish or move any unattended flame. They can extinguish or move it from a distance of 10 feet, as a move action, at a rate of 5 feet per move action. Multiple infernal minions can move the same flame, to speed the process.

Viral Minion
Size/Type: Small Outsider (Evil)
Hit Dice: 1d8+2 (6 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 30 feet
Armor Class: 18, touch 18, flat-footed 11 (+1 size, +7 dex)
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-1
Attack: Claw +9 melee (1d3+2)
Full Attack: 2 claws +9 melee (1d3+2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Leaping Backstab
Special Qualities: Immune to acid
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +9, Will -3
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 25, Con 15, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: -
Feats: Weapon FinesseB
Enviroment: Any
Organization: -
Challange Rating: 1
Treasure: None, unless equipped
Alignment: Always Neutral Evil
Advancement: 1-10 (Small)
Level Adjustment: —

Leaping Backstab (Ex)

If a viral minion moves at least 5 feet in a jump, it may make a sneak attack at the end of that jump dealing an extra 1d6 damage. This functions just like a rogue's sneak attack.

Skills

Viral minions have a +10 racial bonus to Jump, +1 per HD, and can take 10 on Jump checks even in combat. They also have a +30 racial bonus to Hide.

Abominable Minion
Size/Type: Small Outsider (Evil, Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 1d8 (4 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 feet, 30 feet swim
Armor Class: 11, touch 11, flat-footed 11 (+1 size)
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-3
Attack: Ice claw +2 melee touch (1d2 cold)
Full Attack: Ice claw +2 melee touch (1d2 cold)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Revive minion
Special Qualities: Amphibious
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will -3
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: -
Feats: -
Enviroment: Any
Organization: -
Challange Rating: 1
Treasure: None, unless equipped
Alignment: Always Neutral Evil
Advancement: 1-10 (Small)
Level Adjustment: —

Amphibious (Ex)

Abominable minions can breathe water as easily as they breathe air.

Revive Minion (Su)

With a full-round action, an abominable minion may return a dead minion within 5 feet to full health. The dead minion's corpse must be relatively intact, and the minion must not have been dead for more than 1 minute. This ability may not be used if the character is at his maximum minion number.

You may only have one minion summoned at a time, unless you take the Improved Minions C ability. Once a minion you have summoned has died, you must pray to your dark benefactors for 1 hour before they will grant you more. After that hour you may summon any additional amount, up to your maximum.

Note: Summon Minion is unusually weak for a B ability, unless you choose Improved Minions, which is unusually strong for a C ability.

Truespeech (Ex) [Work in Progress]

By learning the secret language of the universe, you can cause things to become true simply by saying them. Because these words are so powerful, only a select few are capable of being learned by mortals. Even among these few words, only one or two out of infinite possible applications for them have been discovered.

Some of the strongest of them, such as Kill and Time, are used by the gods alone. However, no words of Truespeech are as potent as simply learning the truename of a given creature. A truename gives you complete power over the named creature to do with as you will. Thankfully, this information is locked away in a divine vault that none know the location of.

Truespeech is a rare knowledge, and there are only a handful of speakers in the world. These are found in monasteries in the corners of the world where one master teaches one promising student, generation after generation. Additional information is in the spoiler below.

Utterances from this ability are all extraordinary abilities, because they are so fundamental to the fabric of the world. Any creature that learns the words (and says them correctly) speaks them with the same mystical, divine clarity and tone, causing all utterances to have the same range of 60 feet. Even creatures without tongues or the ability to speak at all can learn truespeaking. As long as they are saying the word in their soul, it comes out as clear as anyone else's.

By speaking utterances backwards, you can produce a reverse effect. This either does what it says under the utterance, or it can be used to cancel out an utterance of the same kind, within range, which has already been spoken. Speaking an utterance is an immediate action, so countering a word of Truespeech you hear is as simple as knowing the same word and immediately speaking the reverse of it. If countered in this way, the word's effect never takes place. The only other ways to undo the effect of an utterance are to wait out the duration or kill the truespeaker who uttered it. Learning a word gives you knowledge of both the normal and reverse utterance.

While many utterances are permanent, the more difficult ones, or those affecting other creatures, tend to revert themselves with time. A single truespeaker cannot repeat the same word (whether backward or forward) until the end of its duration, unless it was canceled by an opposite utterance. For utterances with no duration, you must still wait 1 minute before repeating their word.

At each interval, select an utterance from the spoiler below. Your truespeaker level is equal to half your class level. The durations of any spells "winked out" by an utterance continue to count down while disabled.

Combust

Any number of flammable things within 60 feet catch on fire. The fire deals 1d6 + 1d6 damage per truespeaker level on combustion and every round thereafter. The duration of this utterance is considered over when the fires are put out or burn out naturally. Creatures can make a Reflex save (DC 15 + 1 per truespeaker level) each round to put the fire out, but not to avoid the initial combustion and damage.

Reverse Combust

Any number of fires within 60 feet are extinguished.

Enchant

You enchant a held weapon or piece of armor to have magical properties. You may grant it up to a +1 enhancement bonus per truespeaker level, or the equivalent in gold value for magical properties that aren't enhancement bonuses. This utterance is permanent until you dismiss it, and takes a full-round action to utter or dismiss. You must be holding the item with both hands to enchant it. Though this ability is extraordinary, the magical properties you bestow are still magical.

Reverse Enchant

You suppress the magical properties of a held weapon or piece of armor. You may suppress up to +1 worth of enhancement bonuses per truespeaker level, or the equivalent in gold value for magical properties that aren't enhancement bonuses. This utterance is permanent until you dismiss it, and takes a full-round action to utter or dismiss. You must be holding the item with both hands to disenchant it. If you don't know the properties of the item, and don't have a high enough level to suppress all of its properties, the properties are chosen at random. If you do know its properties, you may choose them yourself.

Force

You knock a single creature 10 feet backwards per truespeaker level and render it prone. If it hits a solid object, it takes damage as if it fell from a height equal to the remaining distance. Feather fall or similar can reduce this damage. You can optionally have this utterance affect all creatures within 60 feet, though they are only knocked back 5 feet per truespeaker level. They still fall prone. A flying creature only falls prone if it hits a solid object in its movement. The duration of this utterance is not considered over for 1 minute.

Reverse Force

You cause a single force effect to unravel or a single flying creature to fall to the ground (possibly causing falling damage, though something such as feather fall can break their fall) and lose all ability to fly for a number of rounds equal to your truespeaker level. Both flying and nonflying creatures affected by this utterance fall prone when it is uttered, though they may stand up as soon as they are able.

Hallow

Every object within 60 feet is considered to be good-aligned, and objects and creatures within the radius gain an aura of Good with a level equal to your truespeaker level for 1 year. Once during that year, affected creatures of Good alignment can treat a failed saving throw as a success, or take no damage from something that would send them into negative hit points.

Reverse Hallow

Every object within 60 feet is considered to be evil-aligned, and objects and creatures within the radius gain an aura of Evil with a level equal to your truespeaker level for 1 year. Once during that year, affected creatures of Evil alignment can treat a failed saving throw as a success, or take no damage from something that would send them into negative hit points.

Storm

You cause a storm to materialize in the local area. The size and severity are dependent on current conditions. A Survival check to discern what those are can aid a truespeaker in knowing what this utterance will produce. For example, extreme humidity could cause a tornado or hurricane, while very dry air might just cause random strikes of heat lightning, and moderate moisture could cause a standard thunderstorm. The storm takes 1 minute to fully materialize.

Reverse Storm

You cause any storm that is at least partly within your 60 foot radius to disperse, and leave behind balmy conditions. The storm takes 1 minute to fully disperse.

Terraform

You can shift the surrounding terrain as a move earth spell. You can only move earth within a 60 foot radius, centered on yourself. There is no cast time, but the earth takes one minute to move. You can move any type of natural terrain, not just dirt. You can use this utterance to smooth out difficult terrain without changing the landscape.

Reverse Terraform

All terrain within 60 feet becomes difficult terrain appropriate for its type. You may choose any sort of difficult terrain that it can normally become. The duration of this utterance is not considered over for 1 minute.

Truth

All creatures within 60 feet are subject to a number of effects for 1 round per truespeaker level. If they are in alternate forms, using wildshape or polymorph, or similar, they are reverted to their natural forms, and must stay that way. No lies can be spoken by the affected creatures. If a creature tries to lie, it comes out as the truth instead. Affected creatures cannot cast Illusion spells or create illusory effects, and existing illusions wink out. This utterance can counter an Illusion spell if spoken in response to it, and the target or resulting effect of the spell is within 60 feet.

Reverse Truth

All creatures within 60 feet are subject to a number of effects for 1 round per truespeaker level. If they have an alternate form, they are forced into it, and must stay that way. If they have multiple alternate forms, pick one at random. No truths can be spoken by the affected creatures. If a creature tries to tell the truth, it comes out as the exact opposite of the truth instead.

Youth

You cure a single creature of all aging penalties and return it to a youthful state. The duration of this utterance is not considered to be over until the afflicted creature ages back to where it was, or older, or dies.

Reverse Youth

You cause a single creature to take a penalty to all of its ability scores equal to your truespeaker level, and gain an old and gnarled appearance. This is considered aging, and so cannot be healed by any effect that doesn't heal aging (a casting of reincarnate will work). The duration of this utterance is not considered to be over until the afflicted creature is healed or dies. Creatures that don't take penalties from aging are unaffected by this ability. Creatures that receive bonuses from aging, such as true dragons, also remain unaffected.

C Abilities

Aura of Entropy/Vigilance (Su)

You grant a +1 morale bonus to initiative to all chaotic/lawful creatures who can see (or otherwise sense, if blindsense or blindsight) you, and a -1 morale penalty to all lawful/chaotic creatures who can see or hear you. The numbers increase by +1/-1 at each additional interval.

All bonuses affect you as well, however you lose the benefit of this ability if you ever willingly perform an act outside your chosen alignment, until you atone.

Cloaked Casting - Requires Domains, Invocations, Soul Weapon, or Spellcasting

At level 3, you receive a +5 bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance while the target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC. At level 11, this increases to +10. At level 19, it increases to +20.

At level 7, you receive a +1 bonus to spell or invocation DCs if the spell is cast while the target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC. At level 15, this increases to +2. If you are applying this ability to your soul weapon, the bonus is an attack bonus instead.

High Arcana - Requires Spellcasting

As the archmage ability. You may select one special ability at each interval. Instead of giving up specific spell slots, your spells per day for each spell level are reduced by 1 when you take this ability.

The Arcane Fire ability deals damage equal to the maximum spell level available to you as a base, instead of 1d6 per class level. You still add damage based on the actual spell slot used. For example, if you are capable of casting 7th level spells, and you expend a 2nd level spell slot, your arcane fire deals 7d6 + 2d6 = 9d6 damage.

Improved Minions - Requires Summon Minion

At each interval, the number of minions you may summon at any time increases by 1. In addition, at each interval, you may select an ability from below which will from then on apply to all minions you summon.

Bonus Feat: All minions receive a feat of your choice as a bonus feat, as long as they qualify for it. You may select different feats for each minion you summon. You may select this minion ability more than once.
Skill Points: All minions receive one trained skill, ignoring the fact that they have no Intelligence score. You may select different trained skills for each minion you summon. You may select this minion ability more than once.
Elite Minions: All minion types use the elite array to determine their ability scores instead of the standard array. You may select which ability bonuses go to which abilities each time a new minion is summoned.
Fortified Minions: All minion types gain 1 natural armor per HD and 25% fortification. You may select this minion ability twice in total.
Soulless Minions: All minion types lose their Wisdom and Charisma scores, but because they are imbued with your power, can still sense the world around them and are treated as living creatures. They are also immune to effects which would steal or modify their souls. Finally, you only have to pray for 10 minutes to get fresh minions.
Attuned Minions: All minion types receive a bonus on attack rolls equal to their highest ability score bonus.
Ice Blast: Your abominable minions may use their ice claw attack from a range of 30 feet, and their damage die is increased one size, plus one size per alive minion that you control.
Demon Priest: Your abominable minions can revive minions after any period of time, as long as the body is still intact, and it takes only a standard action.
Firebomb: Your infernal minions' fireball attack deals damage in a 10 foot radius spread from the initial target, has a range of 60 feet, and the damage die is increased one size. All targets other than the initial receive a Reflex save for half damage equal to (10 + HD + Dexterity modifier).
Inferno: Your infernal minions can extinguish or move flame from a range of 30 feet, at a rate of 10 feet per move action. They can also expand the flame into a 30 foot line or a 15 foot cone originating from the source which deals fire damage equal to their fireball damage, with a Reflex save for half damage equal to (10 + HD + Dexterity modifier). The expanded flame must be at least as large as a torch flame fit for a Small sized creature.
Dissolving Touch: Your viral minions' claw attack deals acid damage instead of its normal type, is a touch attack instead of a normal attack, and the damage die is increased one size.
Sneak Mastery: Your viral minions' Leaping Backstab deals an additional 1d6 damage, and they can use the Hide skill even while being observed, and without cover. They also receive a +30 racial bonus to Move Silently checks.
Ravaging Claws: Your brutal minions' claw attacks are treated as being wielded with two hands, and their claw damage is increased one die size. In addition, your brutal minions receive +1 base attack bonus per 2 HD.
Thick Skull: Your brutal minions receive damage reduction/- equal to half their HD, and resistance to every energy type equal to their HD.

Radiant/Vile Aura (Su)

You grant a +1 morale bonus to attack and saving throws to all good/evil creatures who can see (or otherwise sense, if blindsense or blindsight) you, and a -1 morale penalty to evil/good creatures who can see you. The numbers increase by +1/-1 at each additional interval.

All bonuses affect you as well, however you lose the benefit of this ability if you ever willingly perform an act outside your chosen alignment, until you atone.

Resistance Piercing (Ex)

Choose one type of energy damage, one type of physical damage, or force damage. Any damage you deal of that type ignores 10% of any resistance or immunity to damage of that type per interval. This ability does not stack with other effects that ignore resistances or immunities such as Searing Spell or Piercing Cold.

D Abilities

Expanded Knowledge - Requires Spellcasting

You learn a new spell from any school of magic, up to two levels less than the maximum level you can cast. At level 13, you learn a spell from any school of magic, up to one level less than the maximum level you can cast.

Both spells must be from the same school. If you gain access to higher spell levels, you may swap out your extra spells for new ones of the higher level.

Extra Invocations - Requires Invocations

You receive one extra invocation known, of a grade one less than the highest you can invoke. At level 13, you receive an extra invocation known of the highest grade you can invoke.

If you gain access to higher grade invocations, you may swap out your extra invocations for new ones of the higher grade.

Fast Fingers - Requires Bardic Music

You only have to take a move action to begin playing bardic music. At level 13, you only have to take a swift action.

The equivalent for Bardic Performances is in the spoiler below.

Extra Performances - Requires Bardic Performances

You receive one additional performance known at levels 5 and 13. However, you may only select from Soft, Loud, Silent, and Master Silent.

Improved Metamagic - Requires Spellcasting

Choose one metamagic feat that you possess. The spell level increase for applying that metamagic feat to a spell is reduced by 1, to a minimum of 0. Choose a second metamagic feat that you posses for this to apply to at level 13. If you don't have any metamagic feats, you may apply this ability to an appropriate number that you receive later on.

Capstone Abilities

Arcane Trickster (Ex) - Requires Cloaked Casting

You may spend an extra spell slot of the same level as the spell you have just cast to make any targets of that spell flatfooted until their next turn with no save. This takes effect before the effects of your spell.

If using Domains, you don't need to spend extra spell slots. If using Invocations, you cannot cast any invocations for 1 round after using this ability. If using Soul Weapon, you must make a standard attack as a full-round action to make use of this ability.

In all cases, you must also cast the spell or invocation as a full-round action. Spells or invocations who already have a casting time of one round or greater cannot make use of this ability.

Archmage - Requires High Arcana

The drawback of your High Arcana is removed - you gain back your missing spell slot from each spell level. You also gain the remainder of the High Arcana abilities (Arcane Fire, Arcane Reach, Mastery of Counterspelling, Mastery of Elements, and Mastery of Shaping).

Any of these abilities that you already have are converted to Spell Power or Spell-Like Ability, at your option. For the latter, you may only select a spell you would have had available to you at the level you gained the ability.

Burninate (Ex) - Requires Resistance Piercing

Any damage you deal of your chosen type can be made to deal hellfire damage instead, and have its damage die increased by one size, if applicable.

Champion (Su) - Requires Aura of Entropy/Vigilance, Domains, Lay on Hands, or Radiant/Vile Aura

You receive a benefit based on your deity's portfolio. A god of good might grant you the traits of an angel or saint, while a god of death could grant you a supernaturally sharp scythe or an undead template. Base this reward on the campaign up to level 20.

Dark Domination (Sp) - Requires Summon Minion and Improved Minions

Your domination of minions now extends to others. As a standard action, you may make a ranged touch attack with a range of 60 feet. If this attack hits, you may select the actions of the hit target for the next round.

Destruction (Su) - Requires Warmage Edge

Any time your Warmage Edge successfully deals damage, the creature or object it applies to must make a Fortitude save (DC 20 + Charisma modifier) or be instantly slain/destroyed. If the target is an unattended object, it is destroyed with no save. Anything killed or destroyed by this ability is reduced to ashes.

Divine Touch - Requires Lay on Hands

You no longer require any experience or material components for spells you replicate with Lay on Hands, and your pool of healing is squared.

Easy Metamagic - Requires Improved Metamagic

The spell level increase for applying any metamagic feat to a spell is reduced by 1, to a minimum of 0. This ability does not stack with metamagic feats chosen with Improved Metamagic.

Eldritch Quickening (Ex) - Requires Invocations

Select one invocation of each grade that you know. That invocation may be cast as if Quickened.

Favored of the Spirits (Su) - Requires Spirit Guide

Once per day, when reduced to 0 hit points or lower, you are instantly healed to full health and relieved of all status ailments, including ability damage and drain.

Legend (Ex) - Requires Fast Fingers

You may use your Inspire Courage, Inspire Heroics, and any abilities gained from Magic Music all at the same time. Additionally, you automatically succeed on any Knowledge checks related to local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places, even if you aren't trained in the relevant Knowledge skill.

Maestro Exploder (Su) - Requires Magic Music

Every round while playing bardic music, you can spend a swift action to deal [Perform check]d6 sonic damage to target creature that can hear your music. They receive a Fortitude save for half damage equal to (20 + Charisma modifier). Additionally, you can never be magically silenced.

Master of Disguise (Ex) - Requires Secret Spell

Every spell you cast is treated as Silent, Stilled, and Invisible, with no increase in spell level. You can abstain from applying any of these effects if you desire. You can cast the spells diguise self and magic aura at-will as supernatural abilities. You may treat yourself as an item for the purpose of disguising your own magical aura, or the aura of buffs or effects applied to you.

Mighty Companion - Requires Companion

Your companion receives an additional +10 HD, +5 natural armor, and +10 to all ability scores. In addition, your companion gains the use of one D ability of your choosing (even if you don't have it). His effective class level is equal to yours.

Miracle - Requires Domains

Once per day, you may cast miracle. It follows the same rules as other domain spells.

Personal Truename (Ex) - Requires Truespeech

You learn your personal truename, and can say it in reverse to counter those who would use it to control you. You also develop a true nickname of sorts, and gain the Say My Name and I Am There ability, as a truenamer.

Rousing Introduction (Ex) - Requires Bardic Performances

You may start your combo chain on the first round of playing.

Seal Fate (Su) - Requires Bless or Hex

Once per encounter, as an immediate action, you may have a creature you are aware of treat their next d20 roll as a 1 or 20. This does not grant automatic success or failure, however it will trigger things such as critical hits and the vorpal weapon property. You may use this ability as a free action if it is combined with Hex or Bless.

Undead Horde - Requires Undead Mastery

Your HD limits for animate dead are multiplied by your Charisma modifier, if positive, after all other bonuses are considered, as long as the undead creation takes place within your desecrated area. This includes HD limits for creating undead as well as the total amount you can keep at any time.

You may create corpse creatures and bone creatures instead of zombies and skeletons if you wish, but they count for 1.5x more against your HD limit.

Reptilius
2008-10-24, 01:53 PM
Um, from what I can see the warrior and defender can't wield simple weapons. :smallconfused:

Baron Corm
2008-10-24, 02:13 PM
Oops :S

Fixed.

Kroy
2008-10-24, 03:25 PM
Why is it whenever I start to work on a project someone posts it two days later! Why!

*Ahem*, looks good, though why would anyone take half casting over full casting? They both take a B ability, though ones better? Maybe you should grant two B abilities and some stuff cost one B ability(Half casting), and some cost both (Full casting).

Baron Corm
2008-10-25, 05:15 PM
Why is it whenever I start to work on a project someone posts it two days later! Why!

Feel free to post it anyway. Your ideas will be very helpful to me, and hopefully mine will be to you, making both projects better.

This tends to happen to me too, but once I get an idea I finish it in a few hours, so it's more of a simultaneous posting problem :smallbiggrin:


why would anyone take half casting over full casting?

They wouldn't, but full casting is only available to the adept, the only 1/2 BAB archetype. The archetypes are the most unfinished part right now, I'm not sure what to give the adept so that someone might take it even if they don't take spellcasting. Wouldn't want to pidgeon-hole. I might even add another 1/2 BAB archetype in...

Lyndworm
2008-10-26, 08:55 PM
I think that this is the best generic class system that I've ever seen. I like it!

I would suggest giving the Adept three simple weapon proficiencies, and giving the Aristocrat one simple weapon proficiency.

All in all, excellent. I look forward to using it myself.

If I think of anything else, I'll be sure to let you know.

Once more, good work.

Zack

Pie Guy
2008-10-26, 10:00 PM
I withdraw my original comment, this is awesome!

A few more capstone abilities would be good though.

Baron Corm
2008-10-26, 11:48 PM
I think that this is the best generic class system that I've ever seen. I like it!

Thank you :smallredface:


I would suggest giving the Adept three simple weapon proficiencies, and giving the Aristocrat one simple weapon proficiency.

The aristocrat should really be better than the adept in all departments, because the adept gets spellcasting. I gave them both one simple weapon proficiency, though. Making them blow a feat on a weapon is not really very nice.


A few more capstone abilities would be good though.

Added. Yeah, they all have ability requirements now, but you're going to have a lot of those abilities, so you're not as pigeonholed as it seems. The one I'm most unsure about is the capstone for spellcasters.

Lyndworm
2008-10-27, 02:42 PM
The aristocrat should really be better than the adept in all departments, because the adept gets spellcasting. I gave them both one simple weapon proficiency, though. Making them blow a feat on a weapon is not really very nice.

I see your point. It should be noted, however, that although the full-casting adept is more powerful than a straight-up sorcerer, it is weaker than a straight-up wizard.

I'm really liking this system so far. I love the commoner, also, though I feel it may be somewhat weak... Perhaps bumping it up to d6 HD would fix this, but I'm uncertain.

In the interest of customizability I'd probably make all of the saves optional.

Still, I'm entrangled by this system. Excellent work.

Zack

Baron Corm
2008-10-27, 08:58 PM
I'm really liking this system so far. I love the commoner, also, though I feel it may be somewhat weak... Perhaps bumping it up to d6 HD would fix this, but I'm uncertain.

In the interest of customizability I'd probably make all of the saves optional.

Still, I'm entrangled by this system. Excellent work.

Zack

You know you did a good job when people make up words to commend you... :smallsmile:

d6 HD is a possibility for the commoner. I'm worried that both he and the aristocrat are too weak, and that a non-spellcasting adept would be too weak. I'll work that all out eventually though.

A variant system where all aspects of your archetype are customizable is likely going to be the finishing touch on this.

Lyndworm
2008-10-29, 08:04 PM
I see that you've added the modular system mentioned before. It's beyond excellent. I continue to be impressed with your work.

I've been thinking about this recently, and I had an idea. Gestalt rules. I was thinking that you'd just pick an Archtype and get each kind of ability twice. If you're using the modular Archetypes variant, then you'd have a higher point-buy. Perhaps 35?

I was also thinking about PrC's. Since this system is so perfect, I was thinking that it shouldn't change at all. Instead, just adapt PrC features into the already existing ability layout. This is quite a workload, and I'd certainly understand if you don't have the time or interest to handle it.

If you ever want my help with this system (or anything else, you brilliant, brilliant homebrewer), please let me know.

Zack

P.S
Good work on the Vendetta ability (and related capstones), too.

Baron Corm
2008-10-29, 09:04 PM
I've been thinking about this recently, and I had an idea. Gestalt rules. I was thinking that you'd just pick an Archtype and get each kind of ability twice. If you're using the modular Archetypes variant, then you'd have a higher point-buy. Perhaps 35?

There are already ways to get more than one ability of the same type. If you wanted to make it easier to get more abilities of the same type you could give them more AP, yeah. That's the increased power level aspect of gestalt, while the versatility aspect is already in there. Someone can take Spellcasting, Favored Enemy, and Rage at the same time, with any combination of hit dice, skills, and BAB he wants, as long as it's balanced.


I was also thinking about PrC's. Since this system is so perfect, I was thinking that it shouldn't change at all. Instead, just adapt PrC features into the already existing ability layout. This is quite a workload, and I'd certainly understand if you don't have the time or interest to handle it.

If you ever want my help with this system (or anything else, you brilliant, brilliant homebrewer), please let me know.

Zack

I looked through many PrCs, admittedly not all, and decided that they could be mostly represented by existing abilities. If they couldn't, they could be turned into feats. Many PrCs are, "You used to be able to do X, now you can do X+", which is pretty good fodder for a feat. I wouldn't write all those out, because if a player saw something in a PrC he liked, his DM could easily convert it. Death Attack, Primal Scream, and Crippling Strike/Maim I think are the only ones I actually added. Crippling Strike and Maim are supposed to be catch-alls for the instant death or crippling abilities that some PrCs get... if you can think of anything else please feel free to post them.

My car also needs to be waxed... er no that's alright :smallcool:. I think this is really one of the best things I've done, but most of my homebrews are shots in the dark, so don't get any funny ideas.

Lyndworm
2009-01-30, 02:15 AM
I've been playing around with this system recently, and still love it. However, I thought I'd stop in and show some of the continuance I've done. I've got more lying around somewhere, too. Please comment as to the effectiveness and balance as you see fit.



Scaling Abilities:
Rugged (Ex):
Add your class levels to your hit point total when determining your maximum hit points.

(Intended as a replacement for Toughness.)
A Abilities:

Burst of Speed (Rage Equivalent) (Ex):
A Burst of Speed provides +4 Dex at each interval. You may use an additional Move action per round either before or after your regular actions. At 17th level thiis ability grants an extra Standard action under the same conditions.



Maiming Blow (Ex)
The critical threat range of your unarmed strikes becomes 19-20/x2. At 9th level, it becomes 18-20/x3. At 17th level, it becomes 17-20/x4. This ability does not increase the critical threat range, but instead simply changes its value; thus, it stacks with other abilities that would increase your unarmed strike’s critical threat range, such as the Improved Critical feat.

(Requires Improved Unarmed Strike as a first-level feat)
B Abilities:

Lucky Shot (Ex):
Whenever you successfully strike a foe, you roll another attack roll. If the second roll succeeds in striking your foe, you deal an extra 1d6 points of damage. If it does not beat your opponent's armor class, you still hit but only deal normal damage. This extra damage is not multiplied by critical hits. It is precision damage, so it is not effective against opponents without discernible anatomies and those who are immune to critical hits.

The extra damage increases to 2d6 at 4th level, 3d6 at 6th level, 4d6 at 8th level, 5d6 at 10th level, 6d6 at 12th level, 7d6 at 14th level, 8d6 at 16th level, 9d6 at 18th level, and 10d6 at 20th level.



Strafe (Ex):
You can move both before and after an attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. During a strafe, you are allowed a single ranged attack, as if you were making a standard attack action (not a full-attack). Performing a strafe is a full-round action.

While strafing, you deal an extra 1d6 points of damage. This is untyped precision damage, similar to that gained by a sneak attack. Creatures immune to critical hits or without a discernible anatomy (such as an ooze) are immune to the extra damage from a strafe. This damage increases by 1d6 every four levels, to 2d6 at 6th, 3d6 at 10th, 4d6 at 14th, and 5d6 at 18th. You also gain a bonus on attack rolls made during a strafe: +1 at 4th, +2 at 8th, +3 at 12th, +4 at 16, and +5 at 20th.

At 4th level, and every six levels after (10th, and 16th) you gain the ability to make extra shots while moving. You must move at least 5' between each shot. Each shot deals extra damage and uses its own attack rolls. The second shot is made at the your base attack bonus -5, the third at -10, and the fourth at -15--as if they were iterative attacks made in a full-attack.



Command (Ex):
As a Standard action that provokes no attack of opportunity, you may issue a Command. At second level and every two levels thereafter, you gain a new Command that you can use on the battlefield. The Commands are chosen from the list below. To profit from one of the Commands, a character must be able to hear and understand you. The effect of this Command holds on for a number of rounds equal to 3+ your Charisma or Intelligence bonus. You gain no bonus from this ability and no character can profit from more than one Command bonus at the same time.

Aim for the eyes - Allies may add your Charisma or Intelligence bonus as a morale bonus to their damage with ranged weapons.

Engage – Allies may add your Charisma or Intelligence bonus as a morale bonus to their attack rolls in melee.

Hold the line – Allies may add double your Charisma or Intelligence bonus as a morale bonus to all attacks of opportunity.

Defense - Allies may add your Charisma or Intelligence bonus as a morale bonus to their Armor Class.

Strike deep - Allies may add your Charisma or Intelligence bonus as a morale bonus to their damage with melee weapons.

Protect each other - Allies may add your Charisma or Intelligence bonus as a morale bonus to the bonus of the Aid Another action and to attack rolls when flanking.

Do you want to live forever? - Allies may add your Charisma or Intelligence bonus as a morale bonus to attacks and damage when charging and gain a number of temporary hitpoints equal to your Charisma or Intelligence score.

Courage - Allies may add your Charisma or Intelligence bonus as a morale bonus to Will saves, and twice that amount against fear and fear related effects or powers.

Go go go – Allies increase their base speed by 10 feet.

Steady Hand - Allies may add your Charisma or Intelligence bonus as a morale bonus to their attack rolls with ranged weapons.

Capture them alive - Allies may add your Charisma or Intelligence bonus as a morale bonus to trip and disarm attempts and their attack rolls to deal nonlethal damage.

It is only a hedge witch - Allies may add your Charisma or Intelligence bonus as a morale bonus to all saving throws against all spells and spell-like effects.

Watch out - Allies may add your Charisma or Intelligence bonus as a morale bonus to Spot, Search and Initiative checks.


Unarmed Strike (Ex):
Your attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that you may even make unarmed strikes with your hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for you when you strike unarmed. You may thus apply your full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all of your unarmed strikes.

Usually your unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but you can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on your attack roll. You have the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

Your unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Your unarmed strikes also deal improved damage. At 2nd level your unarmed attacks deal 1d6 damage. This damage increases to 1d8 at 4th level, to 2d6 at 8th level, to 2d8 at 10th level, to 3d6 at 14th level, to 3d8 at 16th level, and to 4d6 at 20th level.

Additionally, at levels 6, 12, and 18 you gain a cumulative +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls while fighting unarmed.

(Requires Improved Unarmed Strike as a first-level feat)
C Abilities:
Aura of Unluck (Su):
Enemies take a -1 penalty on ability and skill checks when they start their turn within 10' of you and persisting for as long as they remain within 10' of you. Whenever an opponent is affected by this ability, you gain a luck bonus to ability and skill checks equal to the penalty your foes take.

The penalty increases to -2 at 7th level, -3 at 11th level, -4 at 15th level, and -5 at 19th level.



Danger Sense (Ex):
You gain a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps, a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps, and a +1 bonus to all skill checks to recognize ambushes and act during a surprise round. These bonuses rise to +2 when you reach 7th level, to +3 when you reach 11th level, to +4 when you reach 15th level, and to +5 at 19th level.



Presence of Leadership (Ex):
As long as you are actively involved in a combat and not hindered through conditions that force you to upstain from the battle, all allies within 30’ +5 feet for every point of your Charisma or Intelligence modifier gain a morale bonus to certain combat rolls equal to your Charisma or Intelligence modifier. With increasing levels, the effect of this power increases. At 3rd level this bonus applies to initiative and saving throws against fear and fear related effects, at 7th level it applies to Will saves to resist magical compulsion, at 11th level it applies to Attack Rolls, at 15th level it applies to Damage Rolls, and at 19th level it applies to AC and all Will saves.

The effects of Presence of Leadership stack with the morale bonus from the Command ability, even though both are morale bonuses. It does not stack with any other morale bonuses, though.



AC Bonus (Ex):
Choose any one mental stat and add the modifier to your Armor Class. In addition to this modifier, you also gain a flat bonus of +2 to your Armor Class.

The bonus increases to +4 at 7th level, +6 at 11th level, +8 at 15th level, and +10 at 19th level.

This ability ceases to function if you are denied your dexterity bonus to armor class, wearing any armor, or carrying a medium or heavy load.
Capstone Abilities:
Incredible Luck (Su):
A number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier, you may treat a roll-- any roll, including one that has already been rolled--as though you got a twenty on your roll (before modifiers). No other benefits (automatic success, vorpal weapons) of rolling a twenty are gained; only the numeric value.

(Requires Lucky Shot or Aura of Unluck.)
I must attribute the abilities Lucky Shot, Aura of Unluck, Incredible Luck, Rugged, and Strafe to Fax.

I must attribute the abilities Burst of Speed, Danger Sense, Command, and Presence of Leadership to Satyr.

I must attribute the ability Maiming Blow to the Demented One.

Baron Corm
2009-01-30, 10:24 PM
Before you read the below comments, just keep in mind that I would tweak just about anything to fit into my own homebrew. You could use it as-is if it works for you.

Added Command as Tactics. I suppose I did miss the marshal. You just made me realize that Intelligence needed more love though, so I made it Intelligence-based.

Burst of Speed is way more powerful than any of the other rages. An extra move action per round makes full attacks very easy to get off. This could be part of another ability, without the Dexterity bonus and stuff, but... not balanced against the rages. As written... it grants you two rounds per round at level 17? That's definitely in the top few most powerful abilities possible.

Still thinking about Maiming Blow.

Lucky Shot is easier to deliver than Sneak Attack. I would make it a feat which gives another option to delivering Sneak Attack. Likewise, Strafe is more powerful than Skirmish but would be cool as a feat or feat chain.

Unarmed Strike seems more scaling to me. I'll put something like that in for the martial artists. Spiked gauntlets carry the idea well enough for Western unarmed fighting.

Aura of Unluck's penalty to ability and skill checks would not come into play very often at all. I don't think I get it.

Danger Sense is too specific, just like Trap Sense. Not worth an ability. It would be good rolled into another ability. Maybe I'll put it under Tactics.

Presence of Leadership could just be a reflavoring of Inspirational Song.

AC Bonus is another Eastern martial artist ability that I guess I just didn't put in. I'll try to fit it in too.

Lyndworm
2009-01-31, 06:14 AM
Added Command as Tactics. I suppose I did miss the marshal. You just made me realize that Intelligence needed more love though, so I made it Intelligence-based.

I thought so, myself. Though I've never had the chance to play as such a role, I've always had a soft spot for support-type characters.

I like your take on it, as well. I'll probably use it exactly, or something similar.



Burst of Speed is way more powerful than any of the other rages. An extra move action per round makes full attacks very easy to get off. This could be part of another ability, without the Dexterity bonus and stuff, but... not balanced against the rages.

I was most worried about this ability, actually.

A thought just occered to me. Technically, a full-round action could be inerpreted as consuming all of your Standard and Move actions rather than just one of each. This would be a rather shaky ruling, though.



As written... it grants you two rounds per round at level 17? That's definitely in the top few most powerful abilities possible.

This was an error on my part, actually. The sentence is misleading, as a friend of mine pointed out earlier.

The ability is supposed to "upgrade" your extra Move action to an extra Standard action, not give you one of each. I had meant to change the wording, but it slipped my mind. Entirely my fault.



Still thinking about Maiming Blow.

I'm in no hurry. :smalltongue:



Lucky Shot is easier to deliver than Sneak Attack. I would make it a feat which gives another option to delivering Sneak Attack. Likewise, Strafe is more powerful than Skirmish but would be cool as a feat or feat chain.

I get what you're saying, actually. I'll probably change Lucky Shot a bit later on, but I like Strafe. I might change it, but I definitely won't get rid of it.



Unarmed Strike seems more scaling to me. I'll put something like that in for the martial artists. Spiked gauntlets carry the idea well enough for Western unarmed fighting.

I could see it as a scaling ability, but I wasn't sure that it should be so easily mixed with other damage boosters like Sneak Attack and Skirmish.



Aura of Unluck's penalty to ability and skill checks would not come into play very often at all. I don't think I get it.

You're right, of course. The range is too limited. Perhaps 15' +5' per point of Charisma modifier? A Charisma of 16 would then give a 30' radius. Much more useful.



Danger Sense is too specific, just like Trap Sense. Not worth an ability. It would be good rolled into another ability. Maybe I'll put it under Tactics.

You're right... The thought of making this into a feat didn't occur to me, but it's pretty much perfectly suited to becoming one.



Presence of Leadership could just be a reflavoring of Inspirational Song.


You could surely reflavor Inspirational Song, yes, but I feel that the abilities are too different for it to be prudent to do so.

IS gives a +1 bonus to attack and saves to allies that can hear you and a -1 penalty to attack and saves to enemies that can hear you. As you level, these effects gradually increase to +5/-5. Additionally, it requires the Perform skill.

PoL gives a bonus to allies equal to your Int mod, up to a distance determined by your Int mod. It originally applies only to Initiative checks and fear saving throws, but gradually grows to encompass Will saves vs compulsion, attack rolls, damage rolls, and finall AC and all Will saves.

They are similar, but different.



AC Bonus is another Eastern martial artist ability that I guess I just didn't put in. I'll try to fit it in too.

A built-in AC bonus isn't neccisarily Eastern martial arts. It could easily be given to extremely agile characters such as fencer- and thief-types.



I like the new Capstone, especialy the name. On that note, however, the Unleashed Capstone still refers to the Facile Movement ability as Fast Movement. Just a heads-up.


Thanks for looking these over. With any luck, I'll have modified versions of these prototypes within a few days.

Baron Corm
2009-01-31, 11:39 AM
A thought just occered to me. Technically, a full-round action could be inerpreted as consuming all of your Standard and Move actions rather than just one of each. This would be a rather shaky ruling, though.

Not as necessary if you take away the ability bonuses. Flurry of Blows is actually still better for martial types in most situations, but see below.


The ability is supposed to "upgrade" your extra Move action to an extra Standard action, not give you one of each. I had meant to change the wording, but it slipped my mind. Entirely my fault.

I figured it must be something like that, but the sentence was pretty specific, lol. I'll add in an A ability that grants a swift, then a swift or a move, then a swift, move, or standard per round. Amazing for spellcasters, so I will have to add in some kind of limitation, too. Hmm...

Edit: Added. Needs a bit of work, but not too much.


I could see it as a scaling ability, but I wasn't sure that it should be so easily mixed with other damage boosters like Sneak Attack and Skirmish.

That's why I wouldn't give it increased damage :smallsmile:. I will say that Mighty Soul Weapon can be applied to your unarmed strike, if you have the Unarmed Strike ability. There's your weapon-without-a-weapon.

Edit: Screw that. If they want to they can make unarmed strike their Soul Weapon. Table of unarmed strike bonuses added. I'm not worried about the 2d10 damage because a greatsword is 2d6.
Edit2: You seem to have a better handle on this than I do... it should definitely, definitely be a B ability. I just figured that a monk would want unarmed strike starting at level 1. But he can go around shooting a crossbow until his training his initialized, just like a spellcaster. Martial Arts is both definitely a combat style, and definitely too powerful for a Scaling.


You're right, of course. The range is too limited. Perhaps 15' +5' per point of Charisma modifier? A Charisma of 16 would then give a 30' radius. Much more useful.

That would help reduce Spot and Listen while you were sneaking around I suppose. But what other applications are there, especially during combat? I also don't quite understand the whole "luck stealing" thing, as it isn't mentioned in the ability name. The fact that you only get your bonus if you steal it from someone else is kind of odd. I'll put up a chain of luck-type abilities soon enough for the fatespinners out there. I don't much like Aura of Unluck, but if you like it, just ignore whatever I put up.

Edit: Added as Hex, Lucky, and Aura of Entropy. Aura of Vigilance also added to complete the circle of alignment auras.


PoL gives a bonus to allies equal to your Int mod, up to a distance determined by your Int mod. It originally applies only to Initiative checks and fear saving throws, but gradually grows to encompass Will saves vs compulsion, attack rolls, damage rolls, and finall AC and all Will saves.

Yeah, well the flavor of it is sort of like IS, while the mechanics ended up being like Tactics. I won't add it to the post because it seems redundant, but I might add a flavor note to one or both of those abilities that says they can represent leadership. Of course feel free to use it yourself as-is.

Edit: Screw that too. Added as Leadership.


A built-in AC bonus isn't neccisarily Eastern martial arts. It could easily be given to extremely agile characters such as fencer- and thief-types.

True. Max Dexterity bonus is bothersome. I think I will just add a note to Soul Armor that says it can be a metaphor, lol. Now your fencer or monk has armor AC without wearing armor.


I like the new Capstone, especialy the name. On that note, however, the Unleashed Capstone still refers to the Facile Movement ability as Fast Movement. Just a heads-up.

Fixed, thanks. Had to change the name after I realized that Fast Movement and Free Movement were really very different.

Lyndworm
2009-02-01, 12:49 AM
I figured it must be something like that, but the sentence was pretty specific, lol. I'll add in an A ability that grants a swift, then a swift or a move, then a swift, move, or standard per round. Amazing for spellcasters, so I will have to add in some kind of limitation, too. Hmm...

Edit: Added. Needs a bit of work, but not too much.

I like the Speedy ability. Excellent mechanics.



That's why I wouldn't give it increased damage :smallsmile:. I will say that Mighty Soul Weapon can be applied to your unarmed strike, if you have the Unarmed Strike ability. There's your weapon-without-a-weapon.

Edit: Screw that. If they want to they can make unarmed strike their Soul Weapon. Table of unarmed strike bonuses added. I'm not worried about the 2d10 damage because a greatsword is 2d6.
Edit2: You seem to have a better handle on this than I do... it should definitely, definitely be a B ability. I just figured that a monk would want unarmed strike starting at level 1. But he can go around shooting a crossbow until his training his initialized, just like a spellcaster. Martial Arts is both definitely a combat style, and definitely too powerful for a Scaling.

I like how you combined Unarmed Strikes with Maiming Blows. It seems logical.



That would help reduce Spot and Listen while you were sneaking around I suppose. But what other applications are there, especially during combat? I also don't quite understand the whole "luck stealing" thing, as it isn't mentioned in the ability name. The fact that you only get your bonus if you steal it from someone else is kind of odd. I'll put up a chain of luck-type abilities soon enough for the fatespinners out there. I don't much like Aura of Unluck, but if you like it, just ignore whatever I put up.

Edit: Added as Hex, Lucky, and Aura of Entropy. Aura of Vigilance also added to complete the circle of alignment auras.

Very Good.



Yeah, well the flavor of it is sort of like IS, while the mechanics ended up being like Tactics. I won't add it to the post because it seems redundant, but I might add a flavor note to one or both of those abilities that says they can represent leadership. Of course feel free to use it yourself as-is.

Edit: Screw that too. Added as Leadership.

Works for me.



True. Max Dexterity bonus is bothersome. I think I will just add a note to Soul Armor that says it can be a metaphor, lol. Now your fencer or monk has armor AC without wearing armor.

That's not bad at all. A very elegant solution.



Fixed, thanks. Had to change the name after I realized that Fast Movement and Free Movement were really very different.

I can see your point.

I see your inclusion of psionics and maneuvers. Good show,sir.

I also like the new name for Inspirational/Discouraging Song. Not that the old name was bad, but it's a tad clunky.

Four new Capstones as well, I see. Nice.

Baron Corm
2009-02-01, 01:29 AM
Yeah I went a bit crazy today... the revival of this thread had me adding to it all day. Thanks for all the input though. Feel free to add more if you get any ideas, or PM me if that would be thread necromancy and I can just add it to the main post.

Added Summon Minion and Improved Minions from a class I had previously made. Other updates, if they happen, will be edited into this post.

Note to the past: that was a lie.

Lyndworm
2009-02-01, 09:08 PM
A very nice addition, indeed.

mikeejimbo
2009-02-01, 09:59 PM
Just a few questions, perhaps because I missed the answers in my reading.

How does spellcasting work, if you decide to get it? Is it based off of the Wizard's spellcasting progression?

A few things seem missing, too, though I can't recall now what I thought it was. I assume this is because this is a work in progress though.

Other than that though, I think it's nice.

Baron Corm
2009-02-01, 11:05 PM
How does spellcasting work, if you decide to get it? Is it based off of the Wizard's spellcasting progression?

Might want to check out the B ability "Spellcasting" :smalltongue:


A few things seem missing, too, though I can't recall now what I thought it was. I assume this is because this is a work in progress though.

It's pretty finished I think. I think you might have missed some of the spoilers :smalltongue:


Other than that though, I think it's nice.

Thank you :smalltongue:

*Sticks tongue back in mouth*

If you can remember what was missing and still can't find it please bring it to my attention.

Kroy
2009-02-02, 12:09 AM
Why no love for wild shape? Is it because it's so severely overpowered? If not, I'll make a balanced write up for it tomorrow.
Edit: What about a paladin mount as a D ability? I guess it could just be a re-flavored AC, but still...

Baron Corm
2009-02-02, 12:38 AM
Why no love for wild shape? Is it because it's so severely overpowered? If not, I'll make a balanced write up for it tomorrow.

Major headache. Looking forward to stealing your ideas.


Edit: What about a paladin mount as a D ability? I guess it could just be a re-flavored AC, but still...

Yeah I would just have that as the Companion C ability.

Kroy
2009-02-05, 08:27 PM
****! My post got eaten! I'll post another write up of Wildshape tomorrow when I don't have a headache.

TheGrimace
2009-02-07, 07:49 PM
uh, since there is no longer an AP cost for "half spellcasting", how is that currently being balanced against normal spellcasting?

I saw the dealy last week, and noticed the change this week. Just curious is all.

I'm just dying to make an eldritch theurge with Invocations and spellcasting.

Baron Corm
2009-02-08, 02:14 PM
uh, since there is no longer an AP cost for "half spellcasting", how is that currently being balanced against normal spellcasting?

I saw the dealy last week, and noticed the change this week. Just curious is all.

I'm just dying to make an eldritch theurge with Invocations and spellcasting.

Half-Spellcasting never had an AP cost. Originally it was Spellcasting and Invocations, then I added the others. It's balanced against normal Spellcasting because... Spellcasting has a huge AP cost.

[tl;dr dumbness erased]

Edit: Oops... you obviously meant Half-Spellcasting plus Invocations. That would only cost 19 :smallredface:.

TheGrimace
2009-02-09, 02:09 AM
Oh, it never had one?
I'm quite surprised that I made that error.

huh...

Well cool anyway!

I should just insert my props. I'm currently in a Version Redesign stage with Dnd myself, and until I get my current methods to a playable form, this is my current Dnd character generation style.

imp_fireball
2009-02-09, 04:43 AM
Under this model, the PC adept is surprisingly better than the wizard, assuming spellcasting grants casting progression just like a wizard/sorceror (is type, say divine/arcane selectable?) and considering that 'one simple weapon proficiency' pretty much means that they will deal with simple weapons like the crossbow that the wizard/sorceror ordinarily deals with anyway. Also, the ability category C can offer the adept a capstone ability as well making them above and beyond superior to a wizard/sorceror.

And what about feats? What determines bonus feats that the character receives? What about starting gold? Also, the lack of other abilities kinda prevents the classes from becoming all that fluffy.

---------------------------
Here's my classes that I created just now:

Hearty Spell Caster - 3/4 BAB - one good save - d10 hit die - 2 + int skill progression - one simple weapon proficiency - Spellcasting

Considering that barbarians ordinarily have low AC that makes up for high hp anyway, the hearty spell caster could have pretty high hp too considering that the only two stats they need worry about are their spell casting stat (which is probably best as int in this case) and CON which makes them beefy.

Sure they have very low AC, but they make decent half-barbarians, if only with the OK BAB and the just under equivalent hp, crappy weapon (likely ranged but in front of low hp dudes) and the lack of abilities that the barbarian has. The adept could probably lay a beat down on them if it had something like an animal companion.

Brave (Orca Totem) - Full BAB - WILL is good save - d6 hit die - 2 + int skill progression - All martial weapons proficiency, medium armor proficiency - Scaling

The Brave receives toughness at first level. It's capstone ability is of course impetuous endurance.

It's a simple class that takes damage better than a barbarian with proper twinking (assuming toughness multiplies HP/HD after the CON bonus and/or feat bonuses such as improved toughness and toughness). The brave is probably the easiest class there is to play in fact, however medium armor is expensive early on and players may have to rely on creativity in order to create some custom affordable armor that fits into the medium armor category (heavy leather ie.; stuff which the GM would rule as never parring up to the medium armor that exists in the core books).

It can be attribute intensive however, and it leaves little room for resisting magic early on aside from base saves.

Brave Variant (Dolphin Totem) - 1/2 BAB - WILL is good save - d6 hit die - 2 + int skill progression - All simple weapons proficiency, light armor proficiency - Scaling, D Abilities.

The Brave Variant has toughness and shield ally. Its capstone abilities are impetuous endurance and/or invulnerability (the latter if only one is selectable).

The variant is completely dumbed down in regards to fighting back, however it can take a good punch in the face a fair number of times, just like its brother. It's also great at protecting allies with its loaded hp. Additionally, it is less att heavy than its brother (no need to splurge on STR because the BAB doesn't help you in this venture), however its feat selection is slightly limited in comparison (cannot take power attack at level one).

Brave Variant (Whale Totem) - 1/2 BAB - WILL is good save - d12 hit die - 2 + int skill progression - All martial weapons proficiency, medium armor proficiency - Scaling

The Whale Totem Brave has toughness and impetuous endurance as a capstone ability.

Can you say crapton of hp? This variant is easily the best there is at absorbing blows, not to mention its ability to wear medium armor makes it fair in the AC category. It's inability to fight back is identical to that of the Dolphin Totem, however it leaves room for investing in attributes like DEX to improve AC.

The downside is that the Whale Totem is terrible at protecting allies unless he is in the right position at any one time, however one can probably make up for this with appropriate feats.

Realist - 1/2 BAB - one good save - d4 hit die - 8 + int skill progression - 1 Exotic Heavy Armor Proficiency, 3 Exotic Weapons Proficiency - Invokations

The realist is a master of making ideas, whether those of others or their own, a reality.

They are terrible at holding their own, however they are absolute skill monkeys. The one issue however is that they force players to invest skill points into a few knowledge skills as well as a handful of craft skills (usually at GM discretion) as well as spend significant game time perfecting their creations (away from adventure). Exotic Armor proficiency implies that they can craft armor which they themselves can wear that is both custom and beefs them up enough to match the ECL of other players. Such armor could be powered armor with weapons mounted to the armor itself (exotic weapons) that gives the realist all the advantages of a front liner (provided it does not break down; the realist must probably carry plenty of back up materials that the other PCs would have to assist in transporting). With magical infusions, they can both speed up the creation process and/or offer bonuses to the wearer of their creations.

At higher levels, the realist can revamp their armor with invokations/better materials/more stuff and/or replaced stuff to make it more powerful while still being proficient with it since it is the essentially same armor (can be argued with the GM, however the realist is useless without this rule).

Again, the major problem is that bad craft checks can mean worse off armor initially. In addition, there is always a major money sink involved.

Techno Savant (Realist Variant) - 1/2 BAB - one good save - d4 hit die - 8 + int skill progression - 10 AP points to spend on exotic armor proficiencies, 3 Exotic Weapons Proficiency

The Techno Savant is identical to the realist except for their inability to cast invokations. They also have inevitably more exotic armor proficiencies, meaning they can be more flexible to the party, changing outfits from armor that flies, to armor that bashes really hard, ie.

Techno Savants can revamp their armor at later levels just like the realist.

-----------------------
This would make an excellent reference thread. :smallbiggrin:

TSED
2009-02-09, 05:01 AM
There is currently no possible way to afford the Soul Knife kind of character.

A scaling ability costs 12 points. Soul Weapon is a scaling ability.
A B ability costs 14 points. Mighty Soul Weapon is a B ability.

This leaves you 1 point short to be able to buy an ability thanks to its expensive prereq, and that's before you do *anything* else. Not sure how to balance it, though.


Really good work, I must say. It just looks like it needs some tweaking in certain aspects (like the one I just noticed).

imp_fireball
2009-02-09, 05:35 AM
Also, there's nothing provided on spellcasting based on int like the wizard (unless that's 15 AP). And are invokations/infusions the same thing?

Finally, I'd like to mention that the runescarred berserker can't be created (assuming full BAB, fair HD, mild proficiencies and invokations), although I've never actually seen the class description (can't find it), and only heard of it.

I guess classes like the soulknife and RBK are imba. :smallwink:

Athaniar
2009-02-09, 05:51 AM
This system looks very interesting indeed.

Also, just for fun:

{table=head]PC Archetype|Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Jedi Guardian|All Good|1/1|d8|4|All simple weapons, short sword, longsword, bastard sword, two-bladed sword|-[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Vigilant Defender|Speedy|Half-Spellcasting (Paladin spell list)|Tactics|Uncanny Dodge|Quicken Self[/table]


{table=head]PC Archetype|Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Jedi Consular|Good Will|3/4|d6|2|All simple weapons, short sword, longsword, bastard sword|Spellcasting[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Lay on Hands|Speedy|Spellcasting (Cleric spell list)|Leadership|Diamond Body|Perfect Self[/table]


And one more, not-related to the above: The Warcraft Death Knight:

{table=head]PC Archetype|Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Death Knight|Good Fortitude and Will|1/1|d12|2|All simple and martial weapons plus bastard sword, all armor|-[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Spell Focus (Necromancy)|Armor Mastery|Half-Spellcasting (? spell list)|Vile Aura|Diamond Body|Champion (become undead powerhouse)[/table]

"Variant Class": The Ghoul-Master
{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Spell Focus (Necromancy)|Armor Mastery|Half-Spellcasting (? spell list)|Companion (Ghoul)|Diamond Body|Mighty Companion (with Shield Ally)[/table]

Hey, this is fun!

imp_fireball
2009-02-09, 07:21 PM
Here's my stuff, yo.

A lot of your stuff is completely unbalanced according to the system, although it'd probably make for good powerful bossy-type monsters.

Kroy
2009-02-09, 08:54 PM
This system looks very interesting indeed.

Also, just for fun:

{table=head]PC Archetype|Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Jedi Guardian|All Good|1/1|d8|4|All simple weapons, short sword, longsword, bastard sword, two-bladed sword|-[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Vigilant Defender|Speedy|Half-Spellcasting (Paladin spell list)|Tactics|Uncanny Dodge|Quicken Self[/table]


{table=head]PC Archetype|Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Jedi Consular|Good Will|3/4|d6|2|All simple weapons, short sword, longsword, bastard sword|Spellcasting[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Lay on Hands|Speedy|Spellcasting (Cleric spell list)|Leadership|Diamond Body|Perfect Self[/table]


And one more, not-related to the above: The Warcraft Death Knight:

{table=head]PC Archetype|Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Death Knight|Good Fortitude and Will|1/1|d12|2|All simple and martial weapons plus bastard sword, all armor|-[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Spell Focus (Necromancy)|Armor Mastery|Half-Spellcasting (? spell list)|Vile Aura|Diamond Body|Champion (become undead powerhouse)[/table]

"Variant Class": The Ghoul-Master
{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Spell Focus (Necromancy)|Armor Mastery|Half-Spellcasting (? spell list)|Companion (Ghoul)|Diamond Body|Mighty Companion (with Shield Ally)[/table]

Hey, this is fun!

Nice! Here's some 30 AP point ones:
{table=head]PC Archetype|Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
War Ranger|Good Fort, Good Ref|1/1|d6|4|All simple weapons, All martial weapons, Light & Medium armor, as well as light shields.|Extra Scaling[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Toughness, Lay on Hands|Armor Mastery|Skirmish|Companion (Wolf)|Evasion|Mighty Companion (with Supernatural Resilience)[/table]
For a 25 AP variant, drop Good Ref and bring down the skill points to 2.
More to come!

Holocron Coder
2009-02-09, 11:13 PM
I don't believe it's been pointed out, but... As is, Aura of Entropy seems extremely overpowered.

By the last upgrade, the enemy is rolling 6d20, and randomly picking between the lowest 2. Since this applies to all d20, this applies to attacks... The chances of the enemy missing skyrocket to near-always. Crits are near nonexistent...

Not sure what to suggest instead, other than giving a penalty instead of additional die.

Baron Corm
2009-02-09, 11:28 PM
It's really great to see you guys interested in this. Cool builds.


Under this model, the PC adept is surprisingly better than the wizard, assuming spellcasting grants casting progression just like a wizard/sorceror (is type, say divine/arcane selectable?) and considering that 'one simple weapon proficiency' pretty much means that they will deal with simple weapons like the crossbow that the wizard/sorceror ordinarily deals with anyway. Also, the ability category C can offer the adept a capstone ability as well making them above and beyond superior to a wizard/sorceror.

True, but a character with Spellcasting should be at the same power level as a character who chose something else as his B ability and got more AP as a result. The goal is not to balance against 3.5 base classes, but to balance abilities of the same type against abilities of the same type.

All spells from Spellcasting are arcane, as stated. Divine spells are granted through Domains. This is mostly a flavor call on my part so you can switch it around if you want.


And what about feats? What determines bonus feats that the character receives? What about starting gold? Also, the lack of other abilities kinda prevents the classes from becoming all that fluffy.

You gain feats and ability score increases as normal. This is just a class really, not an entirely new system. Starting gold is something that rarely comes up... go over your background with your DM if you start at level 1 and he'll assign you something.

What do you mean "other abilities"? If you have an ability to add, add it. That's what's good about the system.


Also, there's nothing provided on spellcasting based on int like the wizard (unless that's 15 AP).

There is no prepared casting under this system, no. I didn't think it was necessary, really.


And are invokations/infusions the same thing?

Invocations are from the warlock and infusions are from the artificer. I completely forgot about artificers because I'm not too familiar with Eberron. I'll add them in when I get around to it.


Finally, I'd like to mention that the runescarred berserker can't be created (assuming full BAB, fair HD, mild proficiencies and invokations), although I've never actually seen the class description (can't find it), and only heard of it.

Well I hadn't heard of it either. However, I just looked it up, and I believe you could mimic it very easily with Half-Spellcasting, Natural Resilience, and Rage.


There is currently no possible way to afford the Soul Knife kind of character.

Actually, you get one ability of each type for free. You may pay AP to gain an ADDITIONAL one of those abilities. Maybe I should clarify that in the post.


I don't believe it's been pointed out, but... As is, Aura of Entropy seems extremely overpowered.

By the last upgrade, the enemy is rolling 6d20, and randomly picking between the lowest 2. Since this applies to all d20, this applies to attacks... The chances of the enemy missing skyrocket to near-always. Crits are near nonexistent...

Not sure what to suggest instead, other than giving a penalty instead of additional die.

That was one of the last abilities I made, and I'm not too fond of it because whether or not it is balanced, the mechanics are still very clumsy. I wanted it to have something to do with rerolls, because I was adding luck-based things at the time, but it turned into just a chaos aura. I'll work on it.

Kroy
2009-02-09, 11:44 PM
Sorry it took so long, here's a basic writeup.

First, there is no natural spell. Period. Even though you would need 39 AP to get both, it could happen. You need to spend 10 AP to be able to get Wildshape (similar to casting).

Wildshape, B ability:
At level 2, a wildshaper may gain +2 to all physical stats, as well as two claws dealing 1d6 damage, slashing, and a bite attack, dealing 1d4 damage. He may not use any equipment while in wldshape. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1+(L/3), and it lasts for a number of rounds equal to his level. At level 4, he may pick a single animal (maximum=Level/2), which a wildshaper can expand a wildshape use. At level 6, a wildshaper gains +1 NA, +2 to all physical stats in wildshape form (not animal form). At level 8, you pick another animal. It continues in this pattern until level 20.

I highly encourage you to edit this for balance/simplification.

Holocron Coder
2009-02-09, 11:52 PM
Cool.

As a thought, I was looking at making a class with a companion and realized that, starting at CR2, most companions by max would have.. baseHD + 8HD. Doesn't seem like much... especially figuring in BAB by that. Normal creatures would probably have 10HD, 11 at most by level 18.

Baron Corm
2009-02-10, 12:49 AM
As a thought, I was looking at making a class with a companion and realized that, starting at CR2, most companions by max would have.. 8HD. Doesn't seem like much... especially figuring in BAB by that.

Your average CR 2 guy will have about +15 attack at level 20. Can't forget the ability score bonuses. Maybe I should zazz it up a bit though... how about this:

"If your companion is an animal, its type and all of its current and future hit dice are changed to magical beast.

If your companion is a humanoid, it advances in the generic Combat NPC class instead of gaining hit dice, gaining class levels at each interval equal to the amount of hit dice it would normally have gained. You may build its archetype and choose its ability yourself."

The first part is to help out people who just want a simple wolf, as animals typically have little to no special abilities, and only get 1/2 BAB. This will make an animal's total attack bonus about +25, which is plenty. Aberrations and undead tend to make up for their 1/2 BAB with special abilities. As always, DM intervention can help with special cases...

The second part of that was part of the original intention of the ability that I guess I forgot about. Die, Leadership :smallfurious:!

I'll go over that Wildshape thing tomorrow, Sirek. Bedtime :S

Edit: Realized that the brute and the rogue archetypes are both worse than outsider and dragon and magical beast HD. Will fix somehow, hopefully ending up with half-maneuvers or something on the brute and 5d6 sneak attack or something on the rogue, which for Companion would only give them half of either of those.
Edit2: Fixed probably. Lost too much sleep definitely. Good night.

Athaniar
2009-02-10, 05:25 AM
A lot of your stuff is completely unbalanced according to the system, although it'd probably make for good powerful bossy-type monsters.

:smallconfused:

All of the classes I presented are 25AP. If they are overpowered, then it's not my fault.

Anyway, more Warcraft classes:
{table=head]PC Archetype|Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Demon Hunter|Good Reflex and Will|1/1|d8|4|All simple weapons plus kukri, short sword, longsword, rapier, scimitar, and warglaive*|Invocation[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Vendetta (Evil)|Combat Style (Two-Weapon Fighting)|Invocations (Warlock list, Eldritch Blast)|Favored Enemy (Evil)|Evasion|Seasoned Hunter[/table]

-----

{table=head]PC Archetype|Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Warlock|Good Will|1/2|d4|2|Dagger, punching dagger, quarterstaff|Spellcasting, Extra C Ability[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Spell Focus (Evil)|Hex|Spellcasting (Wizard/Sorcerer spell list)|Companion (appropriate Outsider (Evil), such as Imp or Quasit), Vile Aura|Aligned Actions (Evil)|Mighty Companion (with Shield Ally)[/table]

-----

{table=head]PC Archetype|Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Warden|Good Reflex and Will|3/4|d10|4|All simple and martial weapons plus blade ring*, heavy armor|-[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Death Attack|Armor Mastery|Half-Psionics|Crippling Strike|Uncanny Dodge|Mighty Companion (with Shield Ally)[/table]

Baron Corm
2009-02-10, 10:31 PM
Wildshape, B ability:
At level 2, a wildshaper may gain +2 to all physical stats, as well as two claws dealing 1d6 damage, slashing, and a bite attack, dealing 1d4 damage. He may not use any equipment while in wldshape. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1+(L/3), and it lasts for a number of rounds equal to his level. At level 4, he may pick a single animal (maximum=Level/2), which a wildshaper can expand a wildshape use. At level 6, a wildshaper gains +1 NA, +2 to all physical stats in wildshape form (not animal form). At level 8, you pick another animal. It continues in this pattern until level 20.

I have no idea what you're gaining at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20, to be honest. You may pick a single animal, some aspect of which is level/2, which... a wildshaper can expand a wildshape use? :smallconfused:

At any rate, your paragraph gave me some ideas which spawned the wildshape ability I've just posted up. I think yours is way underpowered, and so mine is more powerful in comparison, because the A ability Rage is much like it but better, but then again I don't know what you're gaining on the off levels with yours.

Athaniar
2009-02-11, 10:33 AM
Two suggestions:

*Favored Enemy (and Vendetta): Make it allowed to choose only one type of creature instead of a group, but gain double the listed bonuses. Think of it as specialization.

*Wild Shape. Make it something else than a B Ability. Some people do like both full spellcasting and Wilshape in a class (but not at the same time, of course).

Also, my old classes and even more classes will be added to a separate post below. Why do I make so many classes? Because it's fun.

Athaniar
2009-02-11, 10:49 AM
The Lord Xavius Class Compendium

Blademaster
Warcraft
{table=head]Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Good Reflex and Will|1/1|d10|6|All simple weapons plus all martial slashing, rapier, and bastard sword, light armor|-[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Domains (primary Trickery, secondary War, favored weapon is any two-handed slashing or piercing)|Whirling Frenzy|Sneak Attack|Tactics|Evasion|Mighty Frenzy[/table]


Dark Ranger
Warcraft
{table=head]Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Good Reflex and Will|1/1|d6|2|All simple and martial weapons, medium armor|Extra A Ability[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Domains (primary Death, secondary Trickery)|Armor Mastery, Combat Style (Archery)|Half-Spellcasting (Hexblade spell list)|Natural Resilience|Flawless Stride|Spell Mastery (Dominate Person)[/table]


Death Knight
Warcraft
{table=head]Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Good Fortitude and Will|1/1|d12|2|All simple and martial weapons plus bastard sword, all armor|-[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Spell Focus (Necromancy)|Armor Mastery|Half-Spellcasting (? spell list)|Vile Aura|Diamond Body|Champion (become undead powerhouse)[/table]

"Variant Class": The Ghoul-Master
{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Spell Focus (Necromancy)|Armor Mastery|Half-Spellcasting (? spell list)|Companion (Ghoul)|Diamond Body|Mighty Companion (with Shield Ally)[/table]


Demon Hunter
Warcraft
{table=head]Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Good Reflex and Will|1/1|d8|4|All simple weapons plus kukri, short sword, longsword, rapier, scimitar, and warglaive*|Invocation[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Vendetta (Evil)|Combat Style (Two-Weapon Fighting)|Invocations (Warlock list, Eldritch Blast)|Favored Enemy (Evil)|Evasion|Seasoned Hunter[/table]


Jedi Consular
Star Wars
{table=head]|Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Good Will|3/4|d6|2|All simple weapons, short sword, longsword, bastard sword|Spellcasting[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Domains (Jedi, choose between Good, Healing, Knowledge, Law, and Protection; Sith, choose between Death, Destruction, Evil, Knowledge, and Trickery)|Speedy|Spellcasting (Cleric spell list)|Leadership|Diamond Body|Perfect Self[/table]


Jedi Guardian
Star Wars
{table=head]Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
All Good|1/1|d8|4|All simple weapons, short sword, longsword, bastard sword, two-bladed sword|-[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Vigilant Defender|Speedy|Half-Spellcasting (Paladin spell list)|Tactics|Uncanny Dodge|Quicken Self[/table]


Priestess of the Moon
Warcraft
{table=head]Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Good Reflex and Will|3/4|d6|2|All simple weapons plus longbow|Spellcasting[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Domains (choose between Good, Healing, and Protection)|Combat Style (Archery)|Spellcasting (Cleric spell list)|Leadership|Diamond Body|Champion (cool moon powers)[/table]


Shaman
Warcraft
{table=head]Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Good Will|3/4|d6|2|All simple weapons plus battleaxe, medium armor, light shields|Spellcasting[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Domains (choose between Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Healing, Strength, and Water)|Armor Mastery|Spellcasting (Druid spell list)|Energy Resistance|Flawless Stride|Unleashed[/table]


Tauren Chieftain
Warcraft
{table=head]Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Good Fortitude and Will|1/1|d12|2|All simple and martial weapons plus double axe and tauren totem*, medium armor|-[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Toughness|Armor Mastery|Half-Spellcasting (Ranger spell list)|Leadership|Flawless Stride|Battle Cry[/table]


Warden
Warcraft
{table=head]Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Good Reflex and Will|3/4|d10|4|All simple and martial weapons plus blade ring*, heavy armor|-[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Death Attack|Armor Mastery|Half-Psionics|Crippling Strike|Uncanny Dodge|Impetuous Endurance[/table]


Warlock
Warcraft
{table=head]Base Saves|Base Attack Bonus|Hit Dice|Trained Skills|Proficiencies|Special
Good Will|1/2|d4|2|Dagger, punching dagger, quarterstaff|Spellcasting, Extra C Ability[/table]

{table=head]Scaling Ability|A Ability|B Ability|C Ability|D Ability|Capstone Ability
Spell Focus (Evil)|Hex|Spellcasting (Wizard/Sorcerer spell list)|Companion (appropriate Outsider (Evil), such as Imp or Quasit), Vile Aura|Aligned Actions (Evil)|Mighty Companion (with Shield Ally)[/table]

Baron Corm
2009-02-11, 03:36 PM
*Favored Enemy (and Vendetta): Make it allowed to choose only one type of creature instead of a group, but gain double the listed bonuses. Think of it as specialization.

Ending up with a +10 bonus on attack rolls and AC and ability DCs and saving throws against them? Interesting idea, but seems too powerful to me. My reasoning for the creature groups was that, if you train against something with a certain body shape and/or mindset, you're going to be trained against anything like that. So, flavor-wise, you don't HAVE to be a giant-hunter or human-hunter if you trained against elves, but you are good against them as a side-effect.

There's also the fact that your DM will have a headache trying to balance throwing different kinds of creatures at you if you specialize, as you will do too well against certain creatures and your C ability is wasted against most.


*Wild Shape. Make it something else than a B Ability. Some people do like both full spellcasting and Wilshape in a class (but not at the same time, of course).

I would advise those people to take Domains. That's pretty much what Domains is there for; a small amount of spells when you don't want to buy another B ability. If you want the druid feel, it's easy enough to worship nature gods or spirits for Domains, and choose an animal as your Shapeshift form.


Also, my old classes and even more classes will be added to a separate post below. Why do I make so many classes? Because it's fun.

I'm glad to have given you something fun to do :smallsmile:

Southern Cross
2009-04-27, 01:23 AM
There needs to be more spellcaster-related abilities.
Here is the following Class B Ability:
Extra Spells (Ex)
Prerequisite: Domains OR Spellcasting
The spellcaster with this ability gains an extra 0-level spell upon gaining this ability,and another higher-level spell every two levels,up to 9th level at 20th level.

Kroy
2009-04-27, 01:34 AM
There needs to be more spellcaster-related abilities.
Here is the following Class B Ability:
Extra Spells (Ex)
Prerequisite: Domains OR Spellcasting
The spellcaster with this ability gains an extra 0-level spell upon gaining this ability,and another higher-level spell every two levels,up to 9th level at 20th level.

Ummm, you are aware casters are only going to have 1 B ability unless they get an extra 4 AP/don't spend any on anything else?

Baron Corm
2009-04-27, 02:29 AM
Kroy speaks the truth. Also, the following are all abilities which were designed specifically with casters in mind:

Scaling: Smite/Vendetta/Soul Weapon/Soul Armor (for gishes), Lay on Hands, Spell Focus
A: Armor Mastery, Combat Style, Speedy, Hex
C: The Auras, Cloaked Casting, Favored Enemy
D: Aligned Actions

So you've got a good number of caster-friendly options of each type except Scaling and D. And you can, of course, pick some of the more generic options as well. Evasion, Toughness, etc. help everybody. Spell Focus was actually added in specifically to help correct this problem. I really want to avoid putting in any more abilities which reference ones you will get at a later date, as that makes it useless for a few levels. The spell slot thing could be good as a D ability, though.

Edit: "Extra Spells" added as a D ability. I just realized though, that neither Spell Focus nor Extra Spells helped out invokers. I'll add something about invocations known as a D ability.

Otho Trois
2009-04-28, 01:38 PM
I was just taking a look at the Mighty Soul Weapon ability, and it seems overpowered. First, it makes mention of having two Soul Weapons. Nowhere in Soul Weapon does it say anything about producing multiple weapons (except for throwing). Is one supposed to just assume they can make two or do they have to spend the extra 12 AP at character creation for it?

My second problem is that MSW applies the same bonus to two weapons as it does to one. When looking at the Soulknife class (the class with the most similar ability), when they produce two weapons with mind blade, the enhancement bonus is lower. Otherwise, there is no reason to EVER use a single Soul Weapon...


Otherwise, amazing work. Most of it seems well-balanced.

Baron Corm
2009-04-28, 06:09 PM
You missed this: "You may summon as many weapons as you can wield, though they disappear once they leave your possession. You can dismiss any number of weapons as a free action."

Your reason for only summoning one weapon would be if you don't want to spend all your feats on TWF.

If you want to spend them on THF instead, you're summoning one two-handed weapon (and probably dealing more damage, even if you have less enhancements).

Or if you want to spend feats on neither, you're summoning one one- (to keep a hand free) or two-handed weapon, because summoning two would give you huge attack penalties.

It thanks you for the compliment! It thinks you are well-balanced too!

Kroy
2009-04-28, 07:28 PM
Kroy speaks the truth.
Can I sig this?

Baron Corm
2009-04-28, 09:17 PM
I'm not sure how credible people would think someone named "flyingpoo" is but if you want to go ahead.

Kroy
2009-04-29, 12:42 AM
I'm not sure how credible people would think someone named "flyingpoo" is but if you want to go ahead.

Did not think of that...:smallwink: You have gotten some respect in the Homebrew forum, however.

Krazddndfreek
2009-04-29, 06:21 PM
You missed this: "You may summon as many weapons as you can wield, though they disappear once they leave your possession. You can dismiss any number of weapons as a free action."

Your reason for only summoning one weapon would be if you don't want to spend all your feats on TWF.

If you want to spend them on THF instead, you're summoning one two-handed weapon (and probably dealing more damage, even if you have less enhancements).

Or if you want to spend feats on neither, you're summoning one one- (to keep a hand free) or two-handed weapon, because summoning two would give you huge attack penalties.

It thanks you for the compliment! It thinks you are well-balanced too!

Sorry to burst your bubble but the TWF feats are only like 3 of them, which you can get at levels 1, 6, and 11. by 11th level (with a high BaB progression) you could have 6 attacks with a vorpal kukri in each hand each at +5 to attack + damage plus strength bonus (or half strength bonus for the other three attacks). That means, without a strength bonus or other feats you could do this:
+14/+14/+9/+9/+4/+4 (1d4 + 5/18-20)
Without paying a cent. Imagine what you could do with a strength bonus and those extra feats. Not to mention you could get improved critical next level, Yikes!

And on a another note, Martial Arts + 20th level= (4d10 + damage stuffs/15-20/x6) w/out feats? x6 is alot you should think about that, plus you can get flurry of blows and power attack with this which is in a sense more scary than the above because the vorpal wont work on nonlivings but this will dish out substantial damage every time and can crit for 6 times that much!

Anyway, I really liked this generic class system (good job!), it would probably work alot better than the generic class system UA provided but it could still use a little work as you probably already knew, I just really like to contribute things and not just lurk around and this was the perfect opportunity, I just hope you take the above issues into consideration (or correct me) and don't feel offended at all. Again, good job!

Krazddndfreek
2009-04-29, 06:49 PM
First, sorry for the double post


Improved Power Attack (Ex)

You receive a +1 bonus to damage whenever you take at least a -1 penalty on your attack using the Power Attack feat. This increases by +1/-1 at each additional interval. When wielding a two-handed weapon, the damage bonus is doubled.

If I'm not mistaken this means that as long as you sacrifice a value from your attack bonus using Power Atack you get double the norm? If so that would mean a 5th level character with Power Attack and Improved Power Attack, wielding a two-handed weapon, could get -2 (2 being half your level rounded down) to attack via power attack, and then +8 to damage am I right? (Not to mention the strength bonus being multiplied by 1.5)
Maybe you could have it so that it gives +.5 per -1 from power attack as long as you sacrifice at least half of your level rounded down (the number of times you have the ability). So that in turn when wielding a weapon one-handed you'd get 1.5x(the penalty to attack rolls you took) and x3 with a two-handed weapon (rather than x2 and x4 respectively).
its just that -2 for +8 doesn't seem quite right especially since by level 5, -2 is hardly anything. Of course, +6 is quite a climb too but I guess since its a class feature its fine.

Athaniar
2009-04-30, 05:10 AM
Oh, good, this thread is active again. I might just start making more custom classes...

Baron Corm
2009-04-30, 04:38 PM
There is an edit button so you don't have to post twice in a row. I am not offended; as you have realized this is a constant WIP.

Your comments on the TWF style are actually pretty universal, not really limited to this class, so I don't want to discuss it that much. If you want to explore this more, there's currently a thread in the Roleplaying Games section about it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109779)

I think when you mention the overpoweredness of the Improved Power Attack and Martial Arts abilities, you aren't considering the power level of other B abilities. Sneak Attack is the one that pops out at me as being easy to compare and having a precedent for balance.

{table=head]B Ability|Damage Bonus At Level 20|Special
Sneak Attack|+10d6 (35 Average)|Target must be flatfooted or flanked, doesn't work on creatures immune to critical hits
Improved Power Attack|+10 (1H)/+20 (2H)|Take -10 attack penalty
Martial Arts|+4d10 (22 Average)|15-20, x6, but can't use weapon enhancements[/table]

Assuming that your +10 worth of weapon enhancements adds another +10 damage at least, Martial Arts is lacking in damage, but the crits make up for it. Also note that you can get Flurry of Blows with any B ability. I think the table otherwise pretty much speaks for itself.

Krazddndfreek
2009-04-30, 07:33 PM
Your comments on the TWF style are actually pretty universal, not really limited to this class, so I don't want to discuss it that much. If you want to explore this more, there's currently a thread in the Roleplaying Games section about it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109779)

Well, I was actually thinking about how the magic weapon bonuses are used in TWF for the Mighty Soul Weapon abilility but I guess we already sorta got that covered


I think when you mention the overpoweredness of the Improved Power Attack and Martial Arts abilities, you aren't considering the power level of other B abilities. Sneak Attack is the one that pops out at me as being easy to compare and having a precedent for balance.

Assuming that your +10 worth of weapon enhancements adds another +10 damage at least, Martial Arts is lacking in damage, but the crits make up for it. Also note that you can get Flurry of Blows with any B ability. I think the table otherwise pretty much speaks for itself

I guess I wasn't completely looking at the other abilities. But, you do have to take into consideration that with either the Martial Arts or the Mighty Soul Weapon ability you can get a LOT of extra money for buying items. Also, you can still use magic fang and permanency or even power attack to give yourself a better advantage with Martial Arts.

P.S. I was REALLY sleepy when I wrote that post so I forgot about the edit button, sorry!

Stegyre
2009-05-12, 03:58 PM
Shameless minor necromancy of a really interesting read. Just a couple of minor questions/comments (probably principally for FP, as the originator, but open to anyone):

First:


Scaling Abilities

Soul Weapon (Su)

You may summon a soul weapon as a move action (or a swift action with Quick Draw). The weapon may be any type you are proficient with (including unarmed strike). It deals damage equal to a normal weapon of its type, and has the same critical threat range, critical multiplier, range increment, and has any other abilities a normal weapon of its type would have. However, an attack made with it is subject to spell resistance, using your character level as your effective caster level. ***

***

Because it is magically attuned to you, the weapon uses your character level instead of your base attack bonus when determining your base attack bonus with it, and adds your highest ability bonus to attack and damage, instead of what the weapon would normally use.

The weapon is treated as masterwork.

Soul Armor (Su)

As Soul Weapon, except with any armor and/or shield you are proficient with. *** Because the armor is magically attuned to you, it does not have any armor check penalties, speed penalties, arcane spell failure, or maximum Dexterity bonus. It also grants spell resistance equal to 10 + your class level.

At your option, the armor is invisible, or possibly metaphorical, and your normal clothing remains visible.

Soul Armament (Su)

As Soul Weapon and Soul Armor. However, the Soul Weapon adds the normal ability score bonus to attack and damage, and the Soul Armor has normal armor check penalties, speed penalties, arcane spell failure, and maximum Dexterity bonus.

I underlined the language in "Soul Weapon" and "Soul Armor" that I find ambiguous. I believe I understand the Soul Weapon description:
(1) base weapon damage is based on the weapon type manifested (e.g., dagger: 1d4);
(2) BAB equals character level (e.g., CL 5 = +5 BAB);
(3) highest ability bonus - whatever the ability - adds to both attack and damage (e.g., Con 16 = +3 to hit, +3 to damage); finally,
(4) as a masterwork weapon, it gets an additional +1 to hit.

(Presumably (4) this stacks with the BAB and ability bonuses, because it's not the "ordinary" situation of a +1 magical masterwork dagger but bonuses coming from different sources? That's a side question, conveying my general ignorance of good RAW conventions.)

The real confusion comes with how Soul Armor is intended to work "as Soul Weapon":

(1) any armor type the character has proficiency in: relatively easy. With "light" proficiency, a character can manifest the effects of anything from padded to a chain shirt. Even if the armor is merely "metaphorical," I'd still expect the character to have to "pay" the weight cost, right? I'd also expect we should explicitly rule out something like "I manifest a <i>mithril</i> breastplate as light armor, with my light armor proficiency."

(2) Should soul armor get a CL adjustment to effectiveness? Without something of the sort, the ability isn't scaling (except for the spell resistance), but this should probably be made explicit. Or would that be too powerful?

(3) Does soul armor get the highest ability bonus?

(4) RAW, I guess masterwork status is irrelevant: masterwork armor only reduces the armor check penalty that this ability already voids.

Finally (on this subject), "Soul Armament" voids (2) and (3), above, for both the weapon and armor, but (1) (obviously) still applies, and so, too, (4)? If that's right, perhaps the OP should be clarified. (Or perhaps I'm just unusually dense.)

Second (and much, much shorter): Suppose, for whatever reason, a character build wants to forego the automatic scalar/A/B/C/D ability. Should they be able to "trade in" abilities for additional AP? Just by way of example, if a character sacrificed just an A or C ability (10 AP), they could have 3 good saves, 1/1 BAB, 8 trained skills, d12 HP, and proficiency with all weapons and armor (excl. tower shield and exotica). Too subject to abuse or as intended?

lesser_minion
2009-05-12, 06:02 PM
Requiring the character to pay the weight cost of an item which has no other encumbrance effects seems a little odd, and I would probably rule the same for Soul Armament armour.

Also, bear in mind that tracking temporary increases to a character's encumbrance is probably more effort than it's worth.

Soul armament armour would slow the character for a while.

I'd probably suggest changing the limiting factor on armour (especially Soul Armour) to "may have an armour bonus up to (some function of character level)" to avoid silliness with special materials and other mundane armour mods (there are probably quite a few floating around - Artisan Crafting (reinforced) from Dragon, for example).

Baron Corm
2009-05-12, 06:40 PM
It's fine. Making a new thread to discuss your concerns wouldn't make much sense in most cases in the homebrew forum.


(Presumably (4) this stacks with the BAB and ability bonuses, because it's not the "ordinary" situation of a +1 magical masterwork dagger but bonuses coming from different sources? That's a side question, conveying my general ignorance of good RAW conventions.)

The BAB, ability, and masterwork bonuses are not coming from the ability in a way which would cause conflict. The ability is modifying the way things work. Even if the ability did specifically give you +1 BAB, +2 Strength, and +1 masterwork bonus, they would still all stack, because they are different types of bonuses. I'm not a definitive source or anything, but that's how I would rule it.


The real confusion comes with how Soul Armor is intended to work "as Soul Weapon"

"As Soul Weapon" means "I'm lazy, figure it out yourself". I suppose I'll type out the full rules now that I've been called on it. The armor and weapon are made out of force, so you can't use special materials for either. I thought I had mentioned that, huh. And yeah, the scaling part of the armor is the spell resistance.

WIP:

Soul Armor (Su)

You may summon a suit of soul armor as a standard action. You may summon a shield with the armor during the same action, if you wish. You must be proficient with the type of armor and/or shield that you summon. Your armor is attached to your body and cannot be removed unless you dismiss it (as a free action).

The armor grants the same bonus to armor class that a normal suit of armor of the same type would grant. Because the armor is magically attuned to you, it does not have any armor check penalties, speed penalties, arcane spell failure, weight, or maximum Dexterity bonus. It also grants spell resistance equal to 10 + your class level.

The armor is treated as masterwork iron (or whatever material it is normally made out of), even though it is made out of force. It can still be sundered, but you can simply summon it again.


Second (and much, much shorter): Suppose, for whatever reason, a character build wants to forego the automatic scalar/A/B/C/D ability. Should they be able to "trade in" abilities for additional AP? Just by way of example, if a character sacrificed just an A or C ability (10 AP), they could have 3 good saves, 1/1 BAB, 8 trained skills, d12 HP, and proficiency with all weapons and armor (excl. tower shield and exotica). Too subject to abuse or as intended?

An interesting idea, however 25 AP is enough to get an extremely good archetype as-is, if you don't get many extras, so I don't think it's really necessary. Just look at the fighter or factotum pre-made archetypes.

Stegyre
2009-05-14, 11:14 AM
An interesting idea, however 25 AP is enough to get an extremely good archetype as-is, if you don't get many extras, so I don't think it's really necessary. Just look at the fighter or factotum pre-made archetypes.
Oh, I agree with that. My perspective is one of, "Mm, I'd like to use this system to build a certain (probably unique) character. Let's see, I want that scalar, this 'B', here's a 'C' and 'D'. Oooh! There's another 'D' that would go nicely. Uh, none of these 'A's really fit . . ."

I can build a character that is strained in other areas (hp, skills, saves, etc.) with an 'A' I don't really want and two 'D's, or I can "trade in" the A for something that actually fits the character.

Ultimately, it's a question of balance, and it's probably a little premature for a system that (I suspect) lacks any extensive play-testing. But I thought it at least worthwhile to run the question past the system proponent and other experienced players & DMs.

For myself, I tend not to know what's good for the game; just, what I want. :smallwink:

EDIT: a few more observations:

1. Shouldn't the Martial Arts "B" ability explicitly include the Improved Unarmed Strike feat? It seems that would be implicit; I'm just suggesting that it be explicit (to help out those of us who are slooow).

2. I'd expect this to be an alternative class-creation approach, reasonably compatible with existing class options (although these generics shouldn't be allowed multi-classing), so Barbarians and Wizards could adventure with Warriors and Adepts, for example. The way it nerfs skills, however, makes it incompatible: without the 4*first level skill points, these characters will always be three skill levels behind "traditional" peers.

(3. And is it just my poor math skills or is the factotum more than 25 AP? I think it needs to lose either the martial weapon or medium armor proficiencies.)

Baron Corm
2009-05-14, 03:32 PM
Unfortunately, allowing that would allow massive min-maxing. I'm just imagining someone who sacrifices most of his other abilities, and gets a bunch of B abilities. I don't think that having an ability which doesn't fit will be an issue, as there are generic abilities like Combat Style which fit any character. Not having an ability at every level also completely defeats the purpose of the system :smallwink:. If you would rather have better base stats and less abilities, just play with normal classes.

1. Fixed.

2. They are not compatible. A character in this system gets more class features than a normal character. For example, a sorcerer has a B ability, and a watered-down C ability (familiar). A fighter has a B ability, plus one feat. A barbarian has an A, C, and D ability, but no B ability (unless he goes frenzied berserker, which is one of the more powerful normal classes, but brings up its own unique penalties, and still lacks a Scaling ability). Characters in this system are just generally more powerful, due to a lack of dead levels, or class features like Slow Fall and Trap Sense.

3. Yeah, he's over by 1. Luckily I have the power to reduce the AP cost of Medium Armor Proficiency by 1 :smalltongue:.

Otho Trois
2009-05-14, 06:53 PM
The Summon Minion B ability seems to be very clearly evil. What happens if I want to be a good character who summons beings from the upper planes to aid me in battle? Or is the Summon Minion only for eeeeeevil people?

Another thing. I just found the EXTENDED abilities section, and opened up the B Abilities and found Improved Power Attack. How is that any different from the standard Power Attack feat? And isn't there already and IPA feat available? If so, why would anyone waste a class feature on it?

Also, a lot of your D abilities seem unbalanced. For example, if I chose Flawless Stride at level 5, upon achieving level 13, I am no longer able to be tracked. However, if I had chosen Diamond Body, come level 13, I am now immune to EVERY disease and poison AND I get Spell Resistance.

Okay, I think that's it this time

Baron Corm
2009-05-15, 05:48 PM
The Summon Minion B ability seems to be very clearly evil. What happens if I want to be a good character who summons beings from the upper planes to aid me in battle? Or is the Summon Minion only for eeeeeevil people?

Actually, if you modify my work in any way, to have it better suit your game, I will personally come to your house and...

Joking, don't call the FBI please.


Another thing. I just found the EXTENDED abilities section, and opened up the B Abilities and found Improved Power Attack. How is that any different from the standard Power Attack feat? And isn't there already and IPA feat available? If so, why would anyone waste a class feature on it?

PA: +1 damage for -1 attack, max = BAB
IPA: Additional +1 damage per -1 taken with PA, max = 1/2 character level (due to B ability advancement)

So if you are level 8 with IPA and 1/1 BAB, you can take up to a -8 attack penalty and get a +12 damage bonus. If wielding a 2hander, -8 attack = +24 damage.

There is no IPA feat available. It is a frenzied berserker class feature. Feats like Leap Attack stack with this and function differently.


Also, a lot of your D abilities seem unbalanced. For example, if I chose Flawless Stride at level 5, upon achieving level 13, I am no longer able to be tracked. However, if I had chosen Diamond Body, come level 13, I am now immune to EVERY disease and poison AND I get Spell Resistance.

Well, it depends on how much you value those abilities. The ability to charge through difficult terrain could help you to defeat many situations with a charge-focused build. Being unable to be tracked could help you disappear if you do something to piss somebody off, which tends to happen a lot in a D&D campaign. If you don't come across disease or poison (or just have a decent Fortitude save), that aspect won't be useful to you. If your spellcasting opponents have caster level bonuses or Spell Penetration, SR will be less useful to you. I don't see a direct gap in power level between the two abilities.


Okay, I think that's it this time

*Shakes fist*

Stegyre
2009-05-15, 05:50 PM
Unfortunately, allowing that would allow massive min-maxing.
Yeah. I see that now. They pretty much need to remain untradeable.


2. They are not compatible. A character in this system gets more class features than a normal character. For example, a sorcerer has a B ability, and a watered-down C ability (familiar). A fighter has a B ability, plus one feat. A barbarian has an A, C, and D ability, but no B ability (unless he goes frenzied berserker, which is one of the more powerful normal classes, but brings up its own unique penalties, and still lacks a Scaling ability). Characters in this system are just generally more powerful, due to a lack of dead levels, or class features like Slow Fall and Trap Sense.
Doing some simple "conversion" of basic classes, I see what you mean. IMHO, this is a serious short-coming. I very much want a system for "custom class construction," which I think your method aspires to be. However, to really be useful, it also needs to be cross-compatible with the existing class options, so fighters can adventure with factotums, etc. (Although as with the existing d20SRD generic classes, multi-classing between the variants should be strictly forbidden.)

Without that cross-compatability, it's an all-or-nothing homebrew: everyone in a campaign needs to use it, or no one. Or you have gross disparities in character strengths for the same levels.

I'd really like to work on "fixing" that issue. "Something at every level" is good, but all characters already do get something every third (feat) or fourth (attribute) level, so maybe part of the solution is voiding one or both of those gains for characters such as these. I don't think scalars are overpowered (provided no one gets more than one). I wonder if C and D abilities (and even A abilities) may be stripped out in favor of an expanded list of feats (similar to the expansion made for existing generics), with the availability of many of them being level-dependent. (E.g., the existing Diamond Body is available under the FP system at CL 5; existing classes don't get a partial equivalent until level 9 (Druids) or level 11 (monks). I'd suggest making it a new feat available at CL 9.)

This would take some rather substantial revision. I will try to post some concrete suggestions after much thought. But I do think the cross-compatability is very important to this every actually being used. Without compatability, one DM might want try it out for a campaign; with compatability, any interested player could at least make the proposal to a DM to have such a character in any campaign.

Pie Guy
2009-05-15, 10:11 PM
Improved/ Supreme Power attack make no sense. Imp. Power Attack seems to give much more of a damage bonus than Supreme, but Supreme overwrites Improved. How does this work?

Baron Corm
2009-05-16, 12:35 AM
Stegyre, feel free to post your idea, but I'm not too interested on working on that myself. It makes for a giant headache, because the normal classes are not balanced against each other. So which one do you balance against?

Pie Guy, IPA gives you +1 damage bonus per -1 taken, to a maximum of 1/2 your character level. SPA gives you +1 damage bonus per -1 taken, to a maximum of your character level. Perhaps I should work on the wording.

Krazddndfreek
2009-05-16, 03:26 AM
Stegyre, take a look at this, it's got a lot more of that "wing-it" attitude you see in 4e, but it allows a bit better balancing with SRD classes. (this is for 3.5e)

EDIT: WOW I can't believe I did that. Here's (http://www.4shared.com/file/105703398/43498980/classconstruction.html) the link.
God sometimes I just can't believe myself...

Jallorn
2009-08-24, 04:50 PM
What about giving up various abilities for Archetype Points?

Also, the wording about the Spellcasting Archetype costs could be better. I didn't get that that was for full casting only until I read later posts.

Zovc
2009-10-01, 01:04 PM
I like to call this the "Combatotum."
---
3, Two good saves (Reflex, Will)
8, Full Base attack bonus
6, 6 trained skills
6, d10 hit dice
0, All Simple Weapons
1, All Martial Weapons
0, Light Armor
1, Medium Armor
0, Shields
--
25, Total
---
Scaling Ability: Domains/Combat Focus
Domains gives you "semispellcasting," similar to what the factotum gets. Charisma-based.
Combat Focus is similar to what the Factotum does with inspiration points.
-
A Ability: Keen Eyes
This gives you the roguelike class features, like the Factotum gets.
-
B Ability: Bonus Feats/Half-Psionics/Half-Spellcasting
Bonus Feats if you're happy with the magic you've got.
Half-Psionics for an Intelligence build, Half-Spellcasting for a Charisma build.
-
C Ability: Tactics/Leadership
Tactics for Intelligence, Leadership for Charisma. Mechanical resemblance to the Factotum.
-
D Ability: Evasion/Supernatural Resilience/Lucky/Extra Spells (Psionics?)
Evasion/Supernatural Resilience help you stay alive.
Lucky somewhat reminds me of the factotum, and isn't bad if you have an okay amount of ranks in each skill instead of a great amount in a few. Good for a skillmonkey, in other words.
Extra Spells if you have spells (and want more), Extra Psionics if your DM wants to give you extra power points equal to your most expensive power or whatever.
-
Capstone: Perfect Self/Keen Flurry/Spell(/Psionic) Mastery/Adept Adapter/Mystical Combat Focus
Perfect Self if you're too soft (somehow).
Keen Flurry if you want to be more aggressive. (One extra attack at your full BAB, effectively? Yes, please!)
Spell Mastery if you'd like to beef up your "lowbie" spells.(/Psionic Variant if your DM will allow.)
Adept Adapter if you want to feel more like a Chameleon.
Mystical Combat Focus if you want to give your Combat Focus a little boost.
-

Thoughts?

Edit 2: My build of a Combatotum.
Combatotum
{table="head"]Level|Ability
1st|Domains, Keen Eyes
2nd|Half-Spellcasting
3rd|Leadership
4th|Half-Spellcasting Improvement
5th|Lucky
6th|Half-Spellcasting Improvement
7th|Leadership Improvement
8th|Half-Spellcasting Improvement
9th|Keen Eyes Improvement
10th|Half-Spellcasting Improvement
11th|Leadership Improvement
12th|Half-Spellcasting Improvement
13th|Lucky Improvement
14th|Half-Spellcasting Improvement
15th|Leadership Improvement
16th|Half-Spellcasting Improvement
17th|Keen Eyes Improvement
18th|Half-Spellcasting Improvement
19th|Leadership Improvement
20th|Spell Mastery, Half-Spellcasting Improvement[/table]

Domains: Travel ([Level] rounds of freedom of movement/day and teleportation spells), Luck (Reroll/day, gives Miracle as a level 9)
Spells will be decided once I get some rules clarity.
Leadership 1: Charisma Bonus to Saves vs Spells
Leadership 2: Charisma Bonus to AC vs Melee
Leadership 3: Charisma Bonus to Disarms, Trips, Bull Rushes, and Sunders
Leadership 4: Charisma Bonus to AC vs Ranged
Leadership 5: Charisma Bonus to Opposed Skill Checks

Edit: When do I start being able to cast spells? Usually, "0 spells per day" means, "You can cast this if you have enough [stat]." If I have 18 Charisma, I can already cast one spell from levels 1-4, regardless of whether or not my class actually gives me one--so long as it "gives" me "zero."

I'd suggest providing a "0" one level before a character gets one spell from their class to reward the half-spellcasters for putting points in their casting stat.

Also, the wording is somewhat vague. Am I able to take any spells from any spell list with less than 9 levels, or do I have to pick any one list that has less than 9 levels? I'm assuming it's the former, seeing as Paladins and Rangers don't get 0th level spells.

Baron Corm
2009-10-01, 03:03 PM
Looks pretty good, Zovc. If you know any other people who have made classes or would be interested, I might run a campaign to test this all out.


When do I start being able to cast spells? Usually, "0 spells per day" means, "You can cast this if you have enough [stat]."

Well, in the interest of reducing the wordiness of the ability, I just added "(if he can cast any)" to the end of it. I will change all of the 0's to -'s though, that will make things clearer.


Also, the wording is somewhat vague. Am I able to take any spells from any spell list with less than 9 levels, or do I have to pick any one list that has less than 9 levels? I'm assuming it's the former, seeing as Paladins and Rangers don't get 0th level spells.

The former. Due to the fact that this class hasn't been tested in a game, I'm not sure if this is broken or not.

Zovc
2009-10-01, 04:12 PM
I'd be interesting in helping you test these, although I'd be adjusting the class a bit, probably.

Consider, for Half-Spellcasting, giving characters a bard-rate progression. The Paladin/Ranger Progression doesn't give players anything significant until level 6; then, all of a sudden, my every-other-level ability is giving me good spells.

Of course, restricting players to 8- lists restricts them to Bard(6), Paladin(4), Ranger(4), and Assassin(4) progressions... thus making every character's 5/6 spells roughly identical. I think it'd be fine to allow players to take Level 1 spells from any class as a level 1 spell if they don't get level 1 spells until level 6...

Baron Corm
2009-10-02, 06:18 PM
It's probably not going to happen. Interest seems to wax and wane in the project.

About half-spellcasting... it would be hard for me to tweak it unless I sat down and tried to pull spells from every existing spell list, and find where there were deficiencies. There are definitely some level 1 spells on the ranger, paladin, or psychic warrior list which are better than the ones on the wizard, cleric, or psion list. That's why I made the distinction, and why the progression might be alright. A lot of work needs to be done with this ability, but I don't think it's really worth it unless someone wanted to use it. They could, in fact, relate to me their own experiences in trying to make a half-spellcasting spell list, which would take a lot of the work out for me. Otherwise, I don't think it's going to be done any time soon.

Zovc
2009-10-03, 09:02 AM
There are definitely some level 1 spells on the ranger, paladin, or psychic warrior list which are better than the ones on the wizard, cleric, or psion list.

I don't know about the Psychic Warrior/Psion, but some of the spells Rangers and Paladins have at level 1 are higher level spells for Wizards/Sorcerors, not necessarily "better (read: unique)."


A lot of work needs to be done with this ability, but I don't think it's really worth it unless someone wanted to use it. They could, in fact, relate to me their own experiences in trying to make a half-spellcasting spell list, which would take a lot of the work out for me. Otherwise, I don't think it's going to be done any time soon.

Well, I'll look at how the list turns out with the suggestions I made... and I'll try to make my own progression with a broader list. I'll then post a new thread (citing this one) to hopefully get not only new interest in your thread, but specific input on just the spell progression/list. I should have time to do this tomorrow.

Milskidasith
2009-10-03, 09:18 AM
I'm already finding this to be badly balanced... for example, for 15 points you can get a psion who gets four powers known (instead of two) at each level, and more PPs, and then you still have room for more skills. Then you have 10 points to make the "Already better than the psion" psion even more better than the real psion. Also, spellcasting should be a scaling ability, not a B ability... it makes no sense for it to be a B ability, since it is based off of your class level.

Milskidasith
2009-10-03, 09:50 AM
Just as an example:

The Uber Psion:

Point stuff:
Trading 2 AP for 6 RP:
Hit die: D12. 8
Saves: Good will. 0
Proficient with no armor: 0
Psionics: 15
Proficient with one simple weapon: 0
Half BAB: 0
2 skills+Int mod per level: 0 (Unless trained skills meant what skills he had as class skills).
Class skills: No rules for these, but Psi/Spellcraft (If transparent) and concentration are the only truly necessary ones. Otherwise, just slap on knowledges. I still don't know where the rules are for skills per level and skills known, since you just listed "trained skills" which isn't defined.

The Uber Psion, to represent the fact he figured out how character creation works, has absurd hit dice and can still cast psionically. Woo!

Abilities:

Scaling: Toughness (Ex): To represent the fact that nobody enjoys being remotely close to being injured, the Uber Psion gets 18 HP every level instead of rolling.

A Ability: Armor Mastery (Ex). Effectively granting proficiency with all armor, the Uber Psion cannot be stopped by something as trivial as not having a clue how to wear armor.

B Ability: Psionics. The Uber Psion casts as a Normal Psion of his level, and must specialize, but gets Class level*4 powers known and better PP progression (see table) than his pathetic Normal Psion friends.

C Ability: Tactics (Ex): Applying, in order, to AC against Ranged, AC against melee, Saving throws against spells, and... I dunno, the rest are crap in comparison. Opposed skill checks, let's say.

D Ability: Will save Evasion (Ex). The Uber Psion is highly resistant to anything requiring a will save. At level 13, he becomes immune to almost all things that require a will save (how many will saves things have secondary effects?)

Capstone: Psionic Mastery (Ex): The Uber Psion can apply up to +2 levels of metapsionics onto one power of his choosing before affecting it's actual level.

His Race:

The Uber: 21 RP: Major affinity (constitution), major affinity (Intelligence.) The Uber has a natural +4 to constitution and +4 to intelligence. At 2nd level and every two levels, the Uber gains a +1 natural bonus to intelligence and constitution. He is also familiar with the Spiked Chain.

So at level 20, giving him a 16 point buy, our Uber Psion has this:

Uber (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=157706)
Uber Uber Psion, Level 20, Init -1, HP 480/480, Speed
AC 20, Touch 20, Flat-footed 20, Fort +23, Ref +16, Will +22, Base Attack Bonus +10/+5, Power Points 510/510
(-1 Dex, +11 Misc)
Abilities Str 8, Dex 8, Con 22, Int 32, Wis 8, Cha 8
Condition None

Sheet here: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=157706

The gist of it is he has, with 8 in everything and 18 in intelligence, a +11 competence bonus against everything (pretty much), 480 HP, 500+ power points, and 80 powers known. This is all without items. With normal WBL and buffs up... this guy would be more broken.

EDIT: Made things better.

EDIT X2: If you got a reasonable point buy (28, maybe?), you could probably afford some base bonuses to other things. Remember, this is WITHOUT items. He could probably have an extra 20 AC with items easily, increase his ML with items, or just do whatever the hell he wants, but I'm pointing out that, without items, this guy has the saves, HP, and main stat of a guy with items and a pretty good AC to boot. Plus, all of his bonuses go up when he gets an item of +intelligence.

EDIT X3: Yes, I know this is supposed to be based on being balanced to other classes made by this, not with other things... but the guy is a tank with absurd HP, full armor proficiencies, absurd psionic casting, and an ability that gives him absurd AC, saves, and opposed skill checks (?) based on his main ability. It's more powerful than other stuff I can make with your system.

In addition, I'd say that trying to balance this to itself is a bad idea. Balancing it to a certain tier of actual D&D characters is probably best, because when you give a character creator that lets you make things far stronger than a normal character it gets much harder to balance.

EDIT X4: I would be interesting in running a campaign with this Psion. And I realize there are weaknesses; until level 9 (when he can wear Mithral Full Plate) he's limited in terms of protection (besides his Int Bonus to AC, which also takes a while to come into play), but hell, he's still a (better) psion with 18+con HP per level, so I can wait for the cheese.

Baron Corm
2009-10-03, 02:41 PM
I'm already finding this to be badly balanced... for example, for 15 points you can get a psion who gets four powers known (instead of two) at each level, and more PPs, and then you still have room for more skills.

You get 4 powers known at each interval. This means every time you gain a B ability. So it's the same number of powers known. The PP numbers were put in there just to make it fit with the progression. I don't know psionics very well in general so a psionic character may be badly balanced.


Also, spellcasting should be a scaling ability, not a B ability... it makes no sense for it to be a B ability, since it is based off of your class level.

It is not based off your class level. If you look at the progressions, you gain nothing on any odd levels. There is a spellcasting Scaling ability already, called Domains. It needed to be toned down because Scaling abilities are weaker.


I still don't know where the rules are for skills per level and skills known, since you just listed "trained skills" which isn't defined.

Under "Trained Skills" in the first post.


Scaling: Toughness (Ex): To represent the fact that nobody enjoys being remotely close to being injured, the Uber Psion gets 18 HP every level instead of rolling.

I'll give you this. Your build has a lot of hit points, and it's a caster. However, in an environment as optimized as this one is in, he will still be 1-shot by an ubercharger, and taken out of the fight by any batman wizard without having his hit points considered.


A Ability: Armor Mastery (Ex). Effectively granting proficiency with all armor, the Uber Psion cannot be stopped by something as trivial as not having a clue how to wear armor.

I added a line which explicitly states that any penalties from not being proficient with an armor type still apply. Good catch.


B Ability: Psionics. The Uber Psion casts as a Normal Psion of his level, and must specialize, but gets Class level*4 powers known and better PP progression (see table) than his pathetic Normal Psion friends.

See above comments on this. I don't know psionics well so I don't know if 60 PP makes a big difference at level 20. It just fit the progression. If you've got a better progression please share.


C Ability: Tactics (Ex): Applying, in order, to AC against Ranged, AC against melee, Saving throws against spells, and... I dunno, the rest are crap in comparison. Opposed skill checks, let's say.

Alright. Do you think that the abilities from Tactics need to be brought closer in power level? Do you have any suggestions for me?


D Ability: Will save Evasion (Ex). The Uber Psion is highly resistant to anything requiring a will save. At level 13, he becomes immune to almost all things that require a will save (how many will saves things have secondary effects?)

How should I word this differently, so that you can still suffer a partial effect when none is listed?


Capstone: Psionic Mastery (Ex): The Uber Psion can apply up to +2 levels of metapsionics onto one power of his choosing before affecting it's actual level.

Good choice!


His Race:

Made comments in the race thread.


I would be interesting in running a campaign with this Psion.

Cool beans. Now that we've got at least two... I'm sure I could find a third. It might take a while to cook something up though, I'm a bit busy these days. Hopefully interest will remain decent for a few weeks.

Milskidasith
2009-10-03, 04:40 PM
Ah; it's weird that you would get four powers known every even level, yet gain +1 ML every level. And I still don't understand the skills; is trained skills the amount of class skills you get, or the skills+Int mod you get each level?

Also, instead of 4 powers every two levels, two powers every level would make more sense (and allow you to actually learn X level powers when you get them, as opposed to a level later.)

EDIT: Also, technically, you can still use armor mastery without being proficient... nonproficiency penalties are a -ACP on attack rolls, and you have no ACP. Just say it doesn't apply if you aren't proficient with the armor.

Baron Corm
2009-10-04, 11:37 AM
And I still don't understand the skills; is trained skills the amount of class skills you get, or the skills+Int mod you get each level?

Under this system, there are no "class skills", or need to invest skill points at each level.

Instead, each character selects a number of trained skills, determined by the amount of AP he spent.

The character receives ranks in those skills equal to his level.

A character's Intelligence modifier may increase or decrease the number of trained skills he receives.


Also, instead of 4 powers every two levels, two powers every level would make more sense (and allow you to actually learn X level powers when you get them, as opposed to a level later.)

Scaling abilities, such as Smite Evil and Toughness, are less powerful than B abilities, such as Improved Power Attack and Sneak Attack. Spellcasting/Manifesting is the most powerful ability. The progression I have them at makes you learn spells/powers at later level than usual, yes. This is *probably* fine. Needs playtesting.


EDIT: Also, technically, you can still use armor mastery without being proficient... nonproficiency penalties are a -ACP on attack rolls, and you have no ACP. Just say it doesn't apply if you aren't proficient with the armor.

Huh, never had to actually look at that rule. I wonder why all psions don't just use heavy armor anyway, then.

Milskidasith
2009-10-04, 11:57 AM
I just noticed that Psionics, quite frankly, is horribly low on PP until very late. It can't even manifest at level 1 (maybe one PP), and can barely manifest at level 2 or 3, and then is going to be done in one encounter at 4 and 5, and might have one and a little more at levels 6 and 7.

EDIT: As for Psions not using heavy armor... a massive penalty to all skill checks that involve moving (which isn't terrible) and a -8 to attack rolls (which is pretty bad) isn't great; Psions get pretty nice Ranged Touch Attack no save powers. Most of the time, people just wear Mithral Chain Shirts and pump dex; no ACP, no penalties. :D

Mythestopheles
2009-10-04, 12:47 PM
I'd be interested in testing this system out, I'll make a character in a bit.

Edit: would Improved Initiative be considered a strong or weak feat?

Baron Corm
2009-10-04, 05:24 PM
I just noticed that Psionics, quite frankly, is horribly low on PP until very late. It can't even manifest at level 1 (maybe one PP), and can barely manifest at level 2 or 3, and then is going to be done in one encounter at 4 and 5, and might have one and a little more at levels 6 and 7.

B abilities don't come into effect until level 2. Other than that, it would be very kind of you to write up a new progression, since I don't know psionics. As long as it's in line with spellcasters, who don't get first level spells until level 4.


Edit: would Improved Initiative be considered a strong or weak feat?

That's a tough one. I'm gonna go with weak.

Milskidasith
2009-10-04, 05:29 PM
B abilities don't come into effect until level 2. Other than that, it would be very kind of you to write up a new progression, since I don't know psionics. As long as it's in line with spellcasters, who don't get first level spells until level 4.



That's a tough one. I'm gonna go with weak.

For a high powered system, getting first level spells at level 4 is... well, they're useless. Hell, your entire system of spellcasting puts them at a much lower power level than normal; one 9th level spell, ever, may be powerful, but it isn't exactly good as a capstone considering the fact that they're woefully underspelled for the first few levels of their career. It also makes no sense how you go crazy about "B abilities don't come into play until level 2" while giving more spells known every level, and give them a caster level increase every level... it's definitely scaling.

bogsnes
2009-10-07, 07:57 AM
I am interested in playing something using these rules...

I do think though that the half-spellcasting should have 5th level spells and tons of spells per day (maybe even more than full casting, something about the duskblade progression)

Baron Corm
2009-10-07, 03:15 PM
Unfortunately I haven't been able to work on a campaign at all yet... pretty busy with schoolwork and other things. One of you could run a game for the others and let me know how it goes :smallfrown:

Anonanimal
2009-10-22, 04:26 PM
How would you implement Binding, Truenaming, or Incarnum into this system? My estimate would be to give Binding and Truenaming a 10 point AP prerequisite and make both B abilities, while Incarnum use has a 5-point prerequisite. Still, there are other things to work out. Like making Truenaming actually work (as beautiful as Kellus' remake of the Truenamer is, I'd like something that's more of an edited original than a complete overhaul), or determining how much essentia the Chakra Binds B ability gives over time.

Anonymouswizard
2009-10-24, 11:03 AM
How about this one

{table]PC archetype|base saves|base attack bonus|hit dice|Trained skills|Proficiencies|Special
Warriormage|good will|1/1|d4|2|all simple and martial weapons, light and medium armour|half spellcasting
[/table]

{table]scaling ability|A ability|B ability|C ability|D ability|capstone ability
Soul weapon|Armor mastery|Mighty soul weapon|Cloaked casting|supernatural resilience|spell mastery
[/table]

The idea is that he channels his natural magic into a blade that consists of his own magic energy. He can manifest a small amount of magic without practice he is able to develop his combat skills, becoming able to cast in armour.

Also, if you want to, I believe that this form of prepared casting would work for the same cost of spontaneous casting.
Spellcasting: the character casts spells as a wizard. He must have an Intelligence score of 10+the spell level. He gains spells known as a wizard (all 0-level spells and 3 1st levels + one 1st level spell per point of Intelligence bonus at 1st level, and two spells of any level he can cast at each level thereafter). He may draw from any list with 9th level spells, but is limited to two schools (four if not using the redifinedspell schools), as well as the universal school.
The character may cast 2 spells per level per day. His caster level is equal to his character level. All spells are arcane, even if drawn from a spell list such as the cleric's, and thus are subject to arcane spell failure.
A Intelligence score of at least (X + spell level) grants bonus spells of that level equal to X/10 (rounded down). An Intelligence score of 23 therefore grants 2 bonus spells per day to spell levels 1-3 and 1 bonus spell per day to spell levels 4-9 (if he can cast any).

Temotei
2009-10-24, 03:54 PM
What if you wanted to make a monk-like class, who wears no armor? Would you get bonus AP (1?), or are you just forced to take light armor proficiency and deal with it?

Anonanimal
2009-10-24, 04:33 PM
What if you wanted to make a monk-like class, who wears no armor? Would you get bonus AP (1?), or are you just forced to take light armor proficiency and deal with it?

You could just grin and bear the light armor proficiency but take the Class C ability Armor Bonus to give yourself a reason to fight unarmored.

Kroy
2009-10-24, 04:42 PM
How about this one

{table]PC Archetype|Saves|BAB|Hit dice|Trained skills|Proficiencies|Special|Scaling ability|A ability|B ability|C ability|D ability|Capstone ability
Warriormage|Good Will|1/1|d4|2|All simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor|Half spellcasting|Soul weapon|Armor mastery|Mighty soul weapon|Cloaked casting|Supernatural Resilience|Spell Mastery[/table]

The idea is that he channels his natural magic into a blade that consists of his own magic energy. He can manifest a small amount of magic without practice he is able to develop his combat skills, becoming able to cast in armor.

Also, if you want to, I believe that this form of prepared casting would work for the same cost of spontaneous casting.
Spellcasting: the character casts spells as a wizard. He must have an Intelligence score of 10+the spell level. He gains spells known as a wizard (all 0-level spells and 3 1st levels + one 1st level spell per point of Intelligence bonus at 1st level, and two spells of any level he can cast at each level thereafter). He may draw from any list with 9th level spells, but is limited to two schools (four if not using the redefined spell schools), as well as the universal school.
The character may cast 2 spells per level per day. His caster level is equal to his character level. All spells are arcane, even if drawn from a spell list such as the cleric's, and thus are subject to arcane spell failure.
A Intelligence score of at least (X + spell level) grants bonus spells of that level equal to X/10 (rounded down). An Intelligence score of 23 therefore grants 2 bonus spells per day to spell levels 1-3 and 1 bonus spell per day to spell levels 4-9 (if he can cast any).

Fixed table for you.


Interested in campaign. If it gets set up, PM me!

Baron Corm
2009-10-24, 05:52 PM
How would you implement Binding, Truenaming, or Incarnum into this system? My estimate would be to give Binding and Truenaming a 10 point AP prerequisite and make both B abilities, while Incarnum use has a 5-point prerequisite. Still, there are other things to work out. Like making Truenaming actually work (as beautiful as Kellus' remake of the Truenamer is, I'd like something that's more of an edited original than a complete overhaul), or determining how much essentia the Chakra Binds B ability gives over time.

Even if one were to fix the whole skill-based thing somehow, truenamer utterances still suck. If you pass your check, you still suck. So I think a complete overhaul really is necessary to get anything out of the great idea that is the truenamer. Your best bet might actually be to slightly modify the Invocations ability.

I'm not too familiar with binders, shadowcasters, or incarnum. From what I gather the first two are similar in power to invoking so 10 points would work. I got the impression that incarnum is actually rather powerful if you know what you're doing, so I'd be inclined to set that at 10 at the very least. If you can give me a rundown of their capabilities I'd reconsider that. If you'd like to do the writeup for these things that would also be nice because I'd really have to get familiar with them to know what to write.


Also, if you want to, I believe that this form of prepared casting would work for the same cost of spontaneous casting.

I purposely left out prepared casting because I find it less fun and more open to abuse. The spellcasting ability as it is right now is representative of the beguiler/dread necromancer/warmage, hence the spell school restrictions.


What if you wanted to make a monk-like class, who wears no armor?

I would advise taking the Soul Armor Scaling ability. It was pretty much made for monk-like characters. The armor you receive can be invisible or metaphorical.


Interested in campaign. If it gets set up, PM me!

Will do, but don't get your hopes up. Unless someone else wants to help me with it.

Anonanimal
2009-10-24, 10:55 PM
You could replace Truenaming with Kellus' Utterances (found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4915339)). With a 10 AP prerequisite, the Truenaming Ability would grant Truespeech as a free class skill and 2 utterances per interval, with access to particular levels of utterances as the Truenamer. I personally am not a fan on the whole HP thing, and would personally take that part out while keeping the Law of Resistance (but not the Law of Sequence, which is silly) in. Truespeech Training could be taken as a Scaling Ability that grants +3 to Truespeech checks, +1/5 character levels. Removal of Skill Focus (Truespeak) would have to be in order.

Binding is significantly stronger than Shadowcasting, which is sadly borked. A 10 AP prerequisite is certainly fitting. I'm still unsure how to approach the whole Shadowcaster deal. Maybe just change the mysteries to per encounter, but honestly...not nearly as cool and flavorful as the other two. Don't care enough.

The Binder's augmentations could be pulled into a C ability. Not sure how, I don't have my books with me, but I doubt it would be too difficult.

I figured that Incarnum added no more to a melee character than maneuvers did, and thus had the same AP prerequisite. That said...I haven't the foggiest how to implement chakra binds and such, as I'm not that familiar with the system either.

Additionally, I'm going to throw in my lot and say that all of the casting systems are kind of odd as B Abilities. It means a casting-focused character has nothing at all to do at 1st level, with a bunch of weird power skips across its career. They really are meant to be Scaling Abilities--although it means more work, the power definition of these abilities needs to be changed.

Baron Corm
2009-10-25, 10:17 AM
Once again, the Tome of Magic and Magic of Incarnum are both gigantic reads so I don't think that those things will get put in for a while, unless you want to write up the actual ability.


Additionally, I'm going to throw in my lot and say that all of the casting systems are kind of odd as B Abilities. It means a casting-focused character has nothing at all to do at 1st level, with a bunch of weird power skips across its career. They really are meant to be Scaling Abilities--although it means more work, the power definition of these abilities needs to be changed.

A wizard or sorcerer has barely anything at all to do his 1st level anyway. Most use a crossbow. If it concerns you that much, take Domains alongside Spellcasting. It's actually a good thing you brought this up though, taking another look at the Domains ability made me realize it really needs an AP cost as well. I set it at 10. Now, this ability isn't as powerful or useful as a B ability, it's just more powerful than other Scaling abilities, so it deserves the AP cost.

There are no weird power skips, you get one new spell level every other level. I modified spell DCs so that your DCs aren't behind, if that helps (changed all of them to 10 + 1/2 level + Cha).

Got any other reasons? :smallyuk:

PS: It was this thread's birthday two days ago. They grow up so fast *sniff*.

Kroy
2009-10-25, 10:24 AM
I think 10 AP is too high. Maybe 7 or 8? For 10 AP you can get a second A or C ability for the same cost as qualifying for domains.

Baron Corm
2009-10-25, 11:25 AM
The thing is... Domains actually IS about as powerful as a B ability. I'm sure in your 9 levels of spells you could find a way to grant yourself +10 to a bunch of skills, or deal +10d6 extra damage on attacks. Probably even both. A lot earlier than the sneak attacker gets it. Domains is more powerful than Invocations, the other 10-cost ability. The downside of course is that you can only do this once per day per spell level. Domains is in fact better in every way than Spellcasting, except for spells per day. I think I'm going to leave it at 10 for now, but I'll think about it.

Zovc
2009-11-29, 11:13 PM
Domains are in no way worth 12, Invocations are practically better (read "more usable") for 10, and so are maneuvers at 8... and Maneuvers don't ask you to have a high Charisma score.

(Edit: Yes, I know it's a scaling ability, as opposed to a B ability, but to be honest, I don't get why Spellcasting [and others] isn't a scaling ability. At the very most, I think Domains should be 10.)

While it's implied, you should state that replenishing one's maneuvers takes a full round action--you don't explicitly say that.

I'm still not seeing the point in taking half-spellcasting or half-psionics. Can I spend 7 or 8 points to get them? Also, you should let them use a better attribute than Charisma, perhaps Intelligence for synergy with Tactics (or just let them choose between Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma)?

Zovc
2009-11-29, 11:22 PM
The thing is... Domains actually IS about as powerful as a B ability. I'm sure in your 9 levels of spells you could find a way to grant yourself +10 to a bunch of skills, or deal +10d6 extra damage on attacks. Probably even both. A lot earlier than the sneak attacker gets it. Domains is more powerful than Invocations, the other 10-cost ability. The downside of course is that you can only do this once per day per spell level. Domains is in fact better in every way than Spellcasting, except for spells per day. I think I'm going to leave it at 10 for now, but I'll think about it.

Sorry for double posting, I didn't realize this was already being discussed.

I completely disagree. Yes, I can choose domains that give me similar effects to any of the abilities I can get from my class, but I get that once a day.

I know one or two spells at each of my spell levels, and I get two domain powers. The only thing that could possibly tip the scale are the domain powers, but we're comparing one spell a day and posisbly two abilities a day to three spells from each spell level avaliable each day. Not only that, but a selection of spells available that "...could find a way to grant yourself +10 to a bunch of skills, or deal +10d6 extra damage on attacks. Probably even both..." Spellcasting is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than domains, and only costs 3 more points. I know, those three points can go a long way (another good save), but the spells go farther (and can probably cover for the lost save).

Temotei
2009-11-29, 11:23 PM
So...if I took mighty soul weapon, I could get epic weapon abilities way before anyone else? Sweet.

Baron Corm
2009-11-30, 12:20 AM
I completely disagree. Yes, I can choose domains that give me similar effects to any of the abilities I can get from my class, but I get that once a day.

It's actually once per day for each spell level. You can cast one spell of each level that you know every day. Plus those domain powers. I'm not sure at the moment why I increased it to 12, though (probably some OCD thing about having symmetrical AP costs). Probably going to put that back at 10.


So...if I took mighty soul weapon, I could get epic weapon abilities way before anyone else? Sweet.

Yes. It is your B ability after all. Just getting something you could buy would be lame.


I'm still not seeing the point in taking half-spellcasting or half-psionics. Can I spend 7 or 8 points to get them? Also, you should let them use a better attribute than Charisma, perhaps Intelligence for synergy with Tactics (or just let them choose between Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma)?

Half-spellcasting has no AP cost. I think I might just dump it altogether. People often opt for the spell-less variants of rangers and paladins anyway, and I have bards covered with performances.

Athaniar
2009-11-30, 08:05 AM
Don't dump Half-Spellcasting, there are many concepts that rely on it.

Baron Corm
2009-11-30, 11:06 AM
Hm, is there anything, though, that couldn't use something else instead? A ranger, for example, could take a nature domain. Or he could take toughness/facile movement/skirmish/favored enemy and be spell-less. A paladin can take Lay on Hands to replicate most of the spellcasting flavor he needs. A gish can take Domains or Spellcasting, depending on how martial he wants to be. You've still got either 15 or 10 AP left, respectively, to spend on your archetype.

Mythestopheles
2009-11-30, 12:07 PM
So I could take domains without spellcasting? If so that would be nice.

Baron Corm
2009-11-30, 12:17 PM
Hm, you're the second person that asked me that. I'll add a note next to the Domains ability. No, you don't need to take Spellcasting. Domains has its own AP prerequisite.

Mythestopheles
2009-11-30, 12:50 PM
Hm, you're the second person that asked me that. I'll add a note next to the Domains ability. No, you don't need to take Spellcasting. Domains has its own AP prerequisite.

Sorry, I should have looked at above posts. It always bugged me that domains seemed out of place with clerics, the spell lists didn't add anything worthwhile. I like how you have it.

Athaniar
2009-11-30, 12:51 PM
Good point, you're probably right.

Baron Corm
2009-12-01, 12:53 PM
Kablooie! Half-spellcasting is gone.

In other news, a campaign using the generic class is beginning. I thought people interested might be watching this thread instead of the Finding Players section, so I'm posting the invitation here first. We already have two confirmed players, and are looking for 1-3 more. PM me for more details.

Aldgar
2009-12-04, 10:39 AM
The Minion Master
{table="head"]Level|Ability
1st|Toughness, Hex
2nd|Summon Minion
3rd|Improved Summon Minion, Vile Aura(+1/-1)
4th|Summon Minion improvement
5th|Diamond Body
6th|Summon Minion Improvement
7th|Improved Summon Minion Improvement, Vile Aura(+2/-2)
8th|Summon Minion Improvement
9th|Hex Improvement
10th|Summon Minion Improvement
11th|Improved Summon Minion Improvement, Vile Aura(+3/-3)
12th|Summon Minion Improvement
13th|Diamond Body Improvement
14th|Summon Minion Improvement
15th|Improved Summon Minion Improvement, Vile Aura(+4/-4)
16th|Summon Minion Improvement
17th|Hex Improvement
18th|Summon Minion Improvement
19th|Improved Summon Minion Improvement, Vile Aura(+5/-5)
20th|Dark Domination, Summon Minion Improvement[/table]

The Math:
3, Two good saves (Reflex, Will)
4, 3/4 Base attack bonus
0, 2 trained skills
8, d12 hit dice
0, One Simple Weapon
0, Light Armor
10, one extra C-ability(Vile Aura)
--
25, Total
---


The abilities:
Scaling Ability: Toughness - A minion master should be difficult to defeat.
-
A Ability: Hex - With the power to alter the fate of your enemies, you can make them fail when it counts(e.g. negate crits, force them to reroll saving throws, etc).
-
B Ability: Summon Minion - The iconic ability of this entire class.
-
C Abilities: Improved Summon Minion & Vile Aura - Improved Summon Minion gives you 5 extra Minions and gives you some upgrades for them. Since I don't think you can pick this ability twice, I chose Vile Aura as second ability, bolstering my minions even further.

D Ability: Diamond Body - Diamond body gives you some immunities(which are always nice), helping you against stuff that commonly targets fortitude. The SR helps, too.
-
Capstone: Dark Domination - The real goal of this class. 3/4 BAB should give you a decent chance to hit.

Aldgar
2009-12-06, 10:45 AM
The Dragonsoul Adept
{table="head"]Level|Ability
1st|Soul Armament, Armor Mastery
2nd|Maneuvers
3rd|Transformation(Half-Dragon*)
4th|Maneuvers Improvement
5th|Diamond Body
6th|Maneuvers Improvement
7th|Transformation(Half-Dragon*) Improvement
8th|Maneuvers Improvement
9th|Armor Mastery Improvement
10th|Maneuvers Improvement
11th|Transformation(Half-Dragon*) Improvement
12th|Maneuvers Improvement
13th|Diamond Body Improvement
14th|Maneuvers Improvement
15th|Transformation(Half-Dragon*) Improvement
16th|Maneuvers Improvement
17th|Armor Mastery Improvement
18th|Maneuvers Improvement
19th|Transformation(Half-Dragon*) Improvement
20th|Apotheosis(Half-Dragon*), Maneuvers Improvement[/table]

The Math:
0, One good saves (Reflex)
8, Full Base attack bonus
0, 2 trained skills
4, d8 hit dice
0, All Simple Weapons
1, All Martial Weapons
0, Light Armor
1, Medium Armor
2, Heavy Armor
0, Shields
1, Tower Shields
8, Maneuvers
--
25, Total
---

The abilities:
Scaling Ability: Soul Armament - Free equipment! The soul adept is never without combat gear. Thanks to his wide range of proficiencies, he can have nearly any weapon/armor/shield he needs at all times. As masterwork version, to boot!
-
A Ability: Armor Mastery - The Soul adept can use his soulbound equipment with ease.
-
B Ability: Maneuvers - The Soul adept can fight with style!
-
C Ability: Transformation(Half-Dragon*)

D Ability: Diamond Body - Diamond body gives you some immunities(which are always nice), helping you against stuff that commonly targets fortitude. The SR helps, too.
-
Capstone: Apotheosis(Half-Dragon) - Rawr!


*Slightly buffed since it's only LA +3 compared to Lich's LA+4.

Here's the details:

Half-Dragon
I Dragonblood subtype, +1 Natural Armor(+1 each interval), natural weapons(2 claws, 1 bite)
II Energy Resistance(depending on dragon type) 10(+5 each interval)
III Breath Weapon (5'/lvl line or 5'/2 lvl cone(depending on dragon type), deals 1d8+1d8/3 lvl damage(depending on dragon type, exotic damage types like sonic or force deal 1d6+1d6/3 levels instead), Reflex DC 10+1/2 HD+Con modifier half, 1/encounter
IV Wings(Fly speed equal to base land speed, average maneuverability)
V Frightful Presence(whenever attack/charge/breathe, Radius 5'/HD, DC 10+1/2 HD+Cha modifier, save = immune for 24hrs, shaken for 4d6 rounds if HD equal or less, frightened if 4 HD or lower, immune if HD greater)
Apotheosis Energy Immunity(replaces Energy resistance), Breath weapon every 1d4 rounds instead of 1/encounter, Type change to Dragon, Flight speed doubles, +8 Str, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha

Mark Hall
2012-05-29, 02:08 PM
The Mod Wonder: Reopened at creator request.

Keegan__D
2012-05-29, 03:52 PM
At the end of the rage, the barbarian loses the rage modifiers and restrictions and becomes fatigued (-2 penalty to Strength, -2 penalty to Dexterity, can’t charge or run) for the duration of the current encounterSince the rage ends at the end of the encounter, one does not get fatigued. This makes Tireless Rage half of an ability. You could grant the ability to use Int-, Wis-, and Cha-based skills and Combat Expertise. Or extend the duration or times/day. Or remove the bad parts of special.


For weapon proficiencies, you could add proficiency with a single exotic weapon for the same price as all martial weapons. A few classes do begin with proficiency, such as the rogue, and monk.

chrisrawr
2012-05-29, 04:03 PM
It makes Gestalt very interesting, by the way. Played a short with 2 others last week where we all rolled up a random gestalt character (literally - rolled against a set of charts with build-a-char options) We had a monkleric, a barbaromancer, and a paldrurogue. We didn't get very far because of a complete lack of knowing our characters' strengths and weaknesses, but simply creating the characters was a hoot.

Baron Corm
2012-05-29, 11:43 PM
Since the rage ends at the end of the encounter, one does not get fatigued. This makes Tireless Rage half of an ability. You could grant the ability to use Int-, Wis-, and Cha-based skills and Combat Expertise. Or extend the duration or times/day. Or remove the bad parts of special.

Good catch. I think I'm just going to mention that this fatigue works like normal fatigue, in that it doesn't go away until you've had 8 hours of rest. In the works are plans for a Rage Mage ability which will let you use skills and spells while raging.


For weapon proficiencies, you could add proficiency with a single exotic weapon for the same price as all martial weapons. A few classes do begin with proficiency, such as the rogue, and monk.

Had it before, then dropped it. Without the improved exotics I linked, it basically amounts to "Spiked Chain Proficiency" for most people, which is worth a feat. Using the improved exotics, they're all worth that feat. Technically I could make the default something like "any exotic weapon other than spiked chain", but meh, that could just be a lot of extra text for the few that would use it.


It makes Gestalt very interesting, by the way. Played a short with 2 others last week where we all rolled up a random gestalt character (literally - rolled against a set of charts with build-a-char options) We had a monkleric, a barbaromancer, and a paldrurogue. We didn't get very far because of a complete lack of knowing our characters' strengths and weaknesses, but simply creating the characters was a hoot.

I... wouldn't even know where to begin :smalleek:. Got me wondering how a character with EVERY ability on the list would play...

Keegan__D
2012-05-30, 11:42 AM
Good catch. I think I'm just going to mention that this fatigue works like normal fatigue, in that it doesn't go away until you've had 8 hours of rest. In the works are plans for a Rage Mage ability which will let you use skills and spells while raging.
Seems a bit drastic. Each rage already has its own penalties, why make the barbarian fatigued all day? Most will only rage 1/day at what they hope is the last encounter, since they'll need to run at some point. Maybe a lesser illness, if you need there to be a punishment for using a class ability.
Unlimited, or a number of times per rage for spells?


Also, something I just learned: Tower shields impose a -2 penalty on attack rolls even if you're proficient. For Soul Armor, is this penalty removed with the other bad stuff?

Baron Corm
2012-05-30, 03:10 PM
Seems a bit drastic. Each rage already has its own penalties, why make the barbarian fatigued all day? Most will only rage 1/day at what they hope is the last encounter, since they'll need to run at some point. Maybe a lesser illness, if you need there to be a punishment for using a class ability.

Well, I'm okay with making the barbarian think about when to use it or not. There are ways to remove fatigue before the day is up in case it matters heavily, such as a potion of lesser restoration, or a usage of Talisman of Undying Fortitude (8000 gp, MIC, something very good to get anyway). If it's a huge issue, such as if he wants a charging build, he can pick a race immune to fatigue, pick up Maneuvers for Iron Heart Surge, or just pick Tireless Rage.

The non-optimizing barbarian just won't be able to charge or run after the first time he rages, and should probably save the second one for the end of the day, or when he knows he can rest an hour. Not so terrible in a low-magic or low-op game.

The main reason I'm okay with all of this is because it's flavorful and encourages synergy and consistency. Also because Tireless Rage is readily available in case the other options don't appeal.


Unlimited, or a number of times per rage for spells?

Probably unlimited, like a rage mage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20031116a&page=7). I'm thinking it will reduce armor by -2, and the scaling bonus will be +1 to spell DCs. It's very hard to balance it with Combat Style, because you can get similar or better things with feats, with no drawbacks, and I really want this to be a niche ability, not every mage in BaC suddenly had to be mad to be optimized. Though the fact that rage stacks with feat bonuses might help. I might add a small Str/Con bonus to it.


Also, something I just learned: Tower shields impose a -2 penalty on attack rolls even if you're proficient. For Soul Armor, is this penalty removed with the other bad stuff?

Nope, since that's not one of the listed removed penalties. I should probably specify that Soul Armor shields can't be metaphorical, as it makes less sense, especially in situations like this.

Thanks for the critiques :smallsmile:

Roc Ness
2012-05-31, 10:20 AM
Always loved the work, don't think I've ever had enough to say to comment, though. XD

Although, I can't remember this well, but I think I was hoping you'd add a bardic music option? Its too late right now for me to scour your work, but I do recall very few bard options. :smallconfused:


I... wouldn't even know where to begin :smalleek:. Got me wondering how a character with EVERY ability on the list would play...

Eh, they'd probably just rely on a certain favourite tactic drawn from hours researching their abilities. When that tactic fails, expect hours of planning their next choice of action, out of all the options. :smallwink: Also, I think they'd utterly forget most of their situational bonuses.

Baron Corm
2012-05-31, 11:18 AM
There is the Bardic Performances ability in the third post, but it's really quite complicated and I should probably add a standardized Inspire Courage A or C ability, with the options of making it a bonus to attack/damage, a skill check, or saves/dodge AC.

Do you think any of the other bard abilities are iconic enough to be worth an ability, or tied into Inspire Courage? Keeping in mind that you can replicate things like suggestion with Domains or Spellcasting.

Another option is to make it really good, and put it in the B slot, since it's somewhat of a character-defining ability, like most B abilities are.

Roc Ness
2012-06-01, 02:55 AM
There is the Bardic Performances ability in the third post, but it's really quite complicated and I should probably add a standardized Inspire Courage A or C ability, with the options of making it a bonus to attack/damage, a skill check, or saves/dodge AC.

Oh yes, I see now. Yes, it is rather complicated, a completely new system. The additional options are wonderful, they give a lot more to the bard's key ability than its already got, although I guess they lend a lot to the heightened complexity.

Yes, probably best to also add an Inspire Courage styled ability with some extra versatility built in. You could probably incorporate your original ideas with ability score increases or sonic damage, albeit simplified as options rather than combinations... maybe just give the bards a really simple catch-all bonuses for sticking to one type of song for a while. Alternatively, you could keep the options more lean, but make the songs only require a move action to maintain so that the singer can use their standard actions to something else constructive?


Do you think any of the other bard abilities are iconic enough to be worth an ability, or tied into Inspire Courage? Keeping in mind that you can replicate things like suggestion with Domains or Spellcasting.

Another option is to make it really good, and put it in the B slot, since it's somewhat of a character-defining ability, like most B abilities are.

Not that I can think of off the top of my head. I thought maybe you could add Seeker of the Song style music/refrains but there is a point where maybe you would rather be using spellcasting to replicate those effects, or even better them. :smallconfused:

On the flip side, I suppose some form of Double Song could work as a capstone ability of some kind.

M. Mayonnaise
2012-06-02, 01:58 PM
This system really interests me. I have a few questions/comments about balance to run by you though.

-- You say that ability score/feat progression is based off of when you acquire/improve certain abilities. If a character takes an extra A, C, or D ability using their archetype points, do they gain ability increases/feats at a greater rate?

-- The soul armor scaling ability and mighty soul armor B ability concern me. I'm worried a character who invests in these may not be getting enough bang for their buck, as it were; their primary class features, aside from C and D abilities and a capstone, revolve around getting a higher armor class and armor enhancements. Even if they get better armor than anyone else, it seems like it would be an underwhelming class feature.

-- I feel as though the invocations B feature could do with more invocations known. Currently they get fewer invocations than the warlock did, whereas a feature like Spellcasting gets 4-5 times as many spells known as the sorcerer, albeit from a more limited list.

-- Also about the invocations, I honestly think the eldritch blast variant of the feature should get a free blast shape or eldritch essence every two levels. I feel like this was a failing of the original warlock; the Dragonfire Adept gets their shapes without having to spend their precious invocations on them, why not the warlock?

-- The Psionics ability looks like it could use some tweaking. It should probably have an AP cost; I would make it the same AP cost as your spellcasting feature. Further, the feature currently gives more PP/day and powers known than the psion did, with no extra limitations on the power list. I would just give it the same PP/day and powers known as the psion. That has its disadvantages though; the psion is Tier 2, while most everything else here is Tier 3.

-- I always liked NeoSeraphi's Alternate Psion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228657) idea, in case you wanted to experiment with something different.

-- For the Half-Psionics feature, you say you gain two powers known at every interval. Does that mean two powers known at every even level, or two powers known every level? Also, I would give manifester level = class level. They still have to spend power points to get the potent effects, so it wouldn't be unbalancing. And with half class level, the Half-Psionics feature never gains the ability to use the 6th level Psychic Warrior powers pre-epic.

-- For the maneuvers ability, you specifically say that you can switch maneuvers known for different ones of the same level. Martial adepts are usually able to switch maneuvers known for new maneuvers of any level, to ensure their abilities are always relevant. I would remove the same-level requirement, as it makes this martial feature much weaker than the original martial adepts.

-- The mystical combat focus capstone seems a bit weak, mostly because of the limited uses and low duration. The original combat focus was not a game-changer, but that's understandable since it's only a scaling ability; for a capstone, though, I'd expect something awesome. Fast healing equal to your BAB for one round is basically just healing damage equal to your BAB, isn't it? Etherealness for one round is nice, but the limited uses hurt it. I would make the capstone something like this:
"All of the benefits gained from expending your combat focus last for a number of rounds equal to half of your BAB, rather than one round. In the case of the 'learn enemy HP' ability, you learn the HP of every enemy you threaten at the beginning of your turn every round for the duration. Expending your combat focus a second time while a previous use is still in effect removes the old bonuses and replaces them with the new one.
You also gain the following new abilities:
Expend combat focus to gain regeneration equal to BAB for a number of rounds equal to 1/5 BAB. While this state lasts, no damage is considered lethal damage for you. You can still be knocked unconscious, killed by death effects, or otherwise incapacitated.
Expend combat focus to become ethereal for a number of rounds equal to 1/4 BAB."


Those are my thoughts. This is a great system, thanks for making it!

Baron Corm
2012-06-03, 10:36 PM
This system really interests me. I have a few questions/comments about balance to run by you though.

-- You say that ability score/feat progression is based off of when you acquire/improve certain abilities. If a character takes an extra A, C, or D ability using their archetype points, do they gain ability increases/feats at a greater rate?

Added text to make sure no one tries this.


-- The soul armor scaling ability and mighty soul armor B ability concern me. I'm worried a character who invests in these may not be getting enough bang for their buck, as it were; their primary class features, aside from C and D abilities and a capstone, revolve around getting a higher armor class and armor enhancements. Even if they get better armor than anyone else, it seems like it would be an underwhelming class feature.

Yes, most B abilities give you offensive power, while this one is defensive. However, I wouldn't take it away from that one niche build that simply wants a defensive B ability. Such as if you went Domains or Smite for your Scaling and based your offense on that, and just wanted your B ability to make you hard to kill. Involves buying an extra Scaling, so it's not going to be very common, but I'm sure within the entire system there's better builds than that which can use it as well.

Also, if someone is focusing on shield bashing, it becomes an offensive ability. Mighty Soul Armor plus Shield Block is defensive leaning, yet still packs a punch.


-- I feel as though the invocations B feature could do with more invocations known. Currently they get fewer invocations than the warlock did, whereas a feature like Spellcasting gets 4-5 times as many spells known as the sorcerer, albeit from a more limited list.

-- Also about the invocations, I honestly think the eldritch blast variant of the feature should get a free blast shape or eldritch essence every two levels. I feel like this was a failing of the original warlock; the Dragonfire Adept gets their shapes without having to spend their precious invocations on them, why not the warlock?

-- The Psionics ability looks like it could use some tweaking. It should probably have an AP cost; I would make it the same AP cost as your spellcasting feature. Further, the feature currently gives more PP/day and powers known than the psion did, with no extra limitations on the power list. I would just give it the same PP/day and powers known as the psion. That has its disadvantages though; the psion is Tier 2, while most everything else here is Tier 3.

-- I always liked NeoSeraphi's Alternate Psion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228657) idea, in case you wanted to experiment with something different.

-- For the Half-Psionics feature, you say you gain two powers known at every interval. Does that mean two powers known at every even level, or two powers known every level? Also, I would give manifester level = class level. They still have to spend power points to get the potent effects, so it wouldn't be unbalancing. And with half class level, the Half-Psionics feature never gains the ability to use the 6th level Psychic Warrior powers pre-epic.

-- For the maneuvers ability, you specifically say that you can switch maneuvers known for different ones of the same level. Martial adepts are usually able to switch maneuvers known for new maneuvers of any level, to ensure their abilities are always relevant. I would remove the same-level requirement, as it makes this martial feature much weaker than the original martial adepts.

Will be considering all of this, thanks for spelling out some of these things. I'm not very familiar with psionics or maneuvers. These are some of the numbers most in need of tweaking.


-- The mystical combat focus capstone seems a bit weak, mostly because of the limited uses and low duration. The original combat focus was not a game-changer, but that's understandable since it's only a scaling ability; for a capstone, though, I'd expect something awesome. Fast healing equal to your BAB for one round is basically just healing damage equal to your BAB, isn't it? Etherealness for one round is nice, but the limited uses hurt it. I would make the capstone something like this:
"All of the benefits gained from expending your combat focus last for a number of rounds equal to half of your BAB, rather than one round. In the case of the 'learn enemy HP' ability, you learn the HP of every enemy you threaten at the beginning of your turn every round for the duration. Expending your combat focus a second time while a previous use is still in effect removes the old bonuses and replaces them with the new one.
You also gain the following new abilities:
Expend combat focus to gain regeneration equal to BAB for a number of rounds equal to 1/5 BAB. While this state lasts, no damage is considered lethal damage for you. You can still be knocked unconscious, killed by death effects, or otherwise incapacitated.
Expend combat focus to become ethereal for a number of rounds equal to 1/4 BAB."

I'd say +20 to attack (or any of those other stats) for easily the entire day's worth of fights is too strong even for a capstone. I might make the fast healing and etherealness last for 1 minute instead of 1 round though.


Those are my thoughts. This is a great system, thanks for making it!

Thank you sir :smallsmile:.

Sodalite
2012-06-19, 04:13 PM
Hey, I'm from the game thread, and I was wondering, how exactly does the Scaling Ability Pounce work? I get the part about being able to make a full attack at the end of a charge, but what does the part about 'maximum' and 'normal' charge distance? The SRD says that you have move at least 10 feet, but it doesn't make any mention of a maximum distance, aside from your character's ordinary speed.

Callous
2012-06-20, 08:14 AM
Its impossible to create any kind of hybrid class.

Rangers, paladins, spellswords, bards, hedgewizards, roguish tricksters all impossible.

Unless you do it like with psionic powers..

Callous
2012-06-20, 08:20 AM
Its impossible to create any kind of hybrid class.

Rangers, paladins, spellswords, bards, hedgewizards, roguish tricksters all impossible.

Unless you do it like with psionic powers..

Baron Corm
2012-06-27, 05:52 PM
Hey, I'm from the game thread, and I was wondering, how exactly does the Scaling Ability Pounce work? I get the part about being able to make a full attack at the end of a charge, but what does the part about 'maximum' and 'normal' charge distance? The SRD says that you have move at least 10 feet, but it doesn't make any mention of a maximum distance, aside from your character's ordinary speed.

Sorry, wasn't aware there was another game yet. Good luck with it!

Your normal charge distance maximum is twice your movement speed. So if your speed is 30 feet, it's 60. The Pounce ability lets you go beyond that, so if your pounce distance is 80 feet, you can charge that far away.

For reference: "Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action."


Its impossible to create any kind of hybrid class.

Rangers, paladins, spellswords, bards, hedgewizards, roguish tricksters all impossible.

Unless you do it like with psionic powers..

I had decided that Maneuvers, Performances, Invocations, and Domains could do Half-Spellcasting's job better, so I took it out. You can pick up any ranger, paladin, or bard spell with Domains if you wish to, but I feel like most people prefer spell-less versions of these classes anyway. The holy paladin flavor can be gotten just by taking Lay on Hands, which was made more versatile. An even more flashy paladin can easily be made with a White Raven initiator. All of the iconic ranger abilities are class features, and you can even go for a shapeshifting ranger if you want.

To answer your question from the race thread, since the ability score/feats thing is only listed here from what I can see, it was a personal decision to make things less complicated, with all of character creation based on the class except wealth, which just goes by the normal table. After noticing that the method granted characters one extra feat, I decided it was a good thing, because it lowers the dominance of humans slightly, and many builds are needing just that one feat. As with all other decisions I've put forth, the DM can very easily say they're just going by the book.

---

In unrelated news, I've finally fixed some of the B ability progressions. Psionics should be more in line with the normal values now, and Invocations grants the same number of invocations as a normal warlock. Thanks again M. Mayonnaise, I included a bunch of your stuff.

bobthe6th
2012-07-16, 08:22 PM
I'm not sure were you are going with the minions... they feel very specific. perhaps make them more *gasp* generic? like give a point buy to build your own minions? perhaps use the mutation system? then you have verity in the minions.

I really really like the capstone for minion mancy by the way. I want to make it into a spell...

Stegyre
2012-08-02, 05:47 PM
For both Soul Weapon and Soul Armor, it seems misplaced to have them duplicate any existing weapon or armor.

First, my Soul Weapon criticisms (I'll deal with Soul Armor in another post): while this ability helps recreate the signature soulknife ability, it can just as readily be a monk’s unarmed strike, the soulbow’s ranged attack, a variety of incarnum soulmelds. I suggest boiling it down to its essence: the class gives the character some form of innate attack. (Yes, I know you have Martial Arts as a B ability; I just hink it largely overlaps the soul weapon ability and can be replaced while still retaining all of the same flavor.)

“Masterwork weapon,” in this context, really just means “+1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls . . . unless you start enchanting it like a normal magic weapon, because then it must have a +1 enhancement bonus before any other enchantments may be added, and this does not stack with the +1 from masterwork.” In practice this means it has a +1 to hit at low levels.

Duplicating any (proficient) weapon is also, IMHO, less than interesting: there is no reason not to optimize this choice, particularly as it seems fairly likely any class taking this ability will have proficiency with “all martial weapons.” (It’s a combat ability; any combat class will have at least ¾ BAB, and the AP cost for proficiency is therefore 2 or less.) If going one-handed, the weapon will do 1d8 and either 19-20/x2 or 20/x3. If going two-handed, the weapon will do 2d6, 19-20/x2, or 1d12, 20/x3. If going ranged, it will do 1d8, 20/x3. And so forth. It is not clear whether the Soul Weapon has weight, but assuming it does not, even that minor consideration goes out the window.

I suggest giving a number of choices for the Soul Weapon, based on the factors that seem to matter:
Does it need to be “drawn” or readied in some fashion (and similarly therefore subject to disarming or sundering, at least temporarily) or is it always available? (E.g., mindblade vs. monk’s unarmed strike.)
Can it be used during a grapple or not?
Does it have reach?
Can it be thrown (with thrown range increments) or attack with missile-range increments?
Can it be used two-handed (for the extra damage bonus)?

Let the player select among these options. Some suggestions:
Reach or Two-Handed both exclude Grapple and Missile.
Missile excludes Grapple.

So, a soul weapon may be missile & one-handed; reach & two-handed; or grapple & one-handed & thrown.

To incorporate the must-be-readied versus always ready question, characters who choose “must-be-readied” are allowed to change among these three choices each time they “ready” the soul weapon, while those who have it “always ready” are bound by their original choice.

Accordingly, I would rewrite your original description as follows:


You have an innate attack. This may be an unarmed strike, an ancestral weapon that always responds to your call, the physical manifestation of psychic energy or incarnum, or whatever else you might conceive.

You are automatically proficient with your innate attack. It deals 1d6 plus your highest ability bonus, has a critical threat range of 20 and a x2 multiplier. Your innate attack overcomes DR and can affect ethereal or incorporeal creatures as if it was magic and did force damage. With each attack, you may also choose whether it does piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning damage.

Even if your innate attack takes the form of a physical weapon, only you can wield it.

Your innate attack may have one of the following three suites of characteristics:

1. It doubles your natural reach and receives 1.5 times your highest attribute modifier to damage. Or
2. It may make ranged attacks and be used in melee, including as both weapons of a two-weapon attack. Or
3. It may be thrown, used in a grapple and be used in melee, including as both weapons of a two-weapon attack.

Choose when you take your first level in the class whether your innate attack must be readied or instead is always available. If it is always available, choose one of the three options above, and your innate attack always has those characteristics.

If your innate attack must be readied, it may be readied as a move action (or a swift action with Quick Draw). You can be disarmed, and it can be sundered (hardness 10, hitpoints 10), although in either case you may retrieve/regain/reform it as good as new by readying it again. Each time your innate attack is readied, you may choose which of the three options above it has.

If it is a ranged attack, it has unlimited ammunition and a range increment of 50 ft.

If it can be thrown, it is immediately ready again after the attack is resolved, so you can make iterative thrown attacks with it, and it has a range increment of 10 ft.

You can enchant your innate attack as if it were a normal magic weapon and you had a caster level equal to your class level, by using mystical incense costing the same price as the enchantment would have cost and meditating for 1 hour per 1,000 gp price. Ammunition enhancements cost double their normal price. Once per day, with 1 hour of meditation, you can change the abilities.

Baron Corm
2012-08-02, 07:14 PM
The opening line states that you can summon your weapon as a move action. I never wrote this in (and will now), but you can dismiss it as a free action, just as with dropping a weapon normally.


Because the weapon represents you on a spiritual level, its type should be a manifestation of your inner personality. A character with multiple facets to his personality who summons multiple Soul Weapons may select different types for his weapons. If a character's inner self changes drastically at some point, the weapon type of his Soul Weapon may change as well.

This paragraph was supposed to imply that you can't change your Soul Weapon type without dramatic character development, so you're not getting all of those types of weapons on a whim. I don't see anything particularly wrong with allowing them to summon a weapon they're proficient with, rather than making it a standardized ability. A couple hundred gold pieces, at most, would have gotten them the base weapon anyway.

Martial Arts is mostly there to help duplicate a monk character, should one be desired. If I made "innate attack" able to represent martial arts skills or an ancestral energy weapon, I would have to split the ability into either (Ex) or (Su), depending on your choice. That just speaks of two different abilities, to me.

I'll make some adjustments to the ability, but if there's anything left unresolved, please let me know.

Edit: Derp. Actually, the bit about dimissing your weapon as a free action is already in there. Last sentence of the first paragraph. Even I missed it in a quick read-through.

Re-reading Soul Armor, I've taken out the bit about it having no maximum Dexterity bonus. That makes everyone just want to take the armor with the highest possible armor bonus, and removes choice. Not sure if that's one of the things you were going to mention.

Just took out most of the other perks of Soul Armor for good measure, but let it apply to touch attacks. I don't feel like they were overpowered, I just want to encourage the careful selection of the armor you pick.