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Shadow_Elf
2008-10-24, 08:11 PM
Okay, so I have a question, and then I have an idea.

Question: What happens when you turn a bag of holding inside out?

Idea: Anyone have funny stories/situations/fictional encounters involving bags of holding and random non-sense? I would like to get an idea of all the crazy stuff my PCs will be able to get away with once I eventually DM.

My first thoughts:

Driders on the ceiling. With Bags of Holding. Full of Anvils. Hilarity ensues.

Wyvern_55
2008-10-24, 08:18 PM
Once turned inside out the (large) portion of the bag that was in the astral plane is now on the material plane, and the smaller part that was in the material plane is now in the astral plane, all things are now spilled out of it, and you have a large sack that can only fit a very small amount within.

This is how I've always understood it at least.

Jack_Simth
2008-10-24, 08:18 PM
Question: What happens when you turn a bag of holding inside out?
"If a bag of holding is turned inside out, its contents spill out, unharmed, but the bag must be put right before it can be used again."

Which, you know, does nasty stuff with the falling damage rules... especially if you first cast Shrink Item on the stuff, and drop it all on top of someone who just cast Antimagic Field....

EvilElitest
2008-10-24, 08:19 PM
we smuggled an army into a city using a bag......and dropped it by mistake into a gutter
from
EE

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-24, 08:22 PM
I prefer using either Dispel Magic or Antimagic Field for smuggling. You take the bag, dis-enchant it temporarily, put stuff in the (now mundane) sack, then a portal springs up over the mouth keeping anyone from getting to the secret stash.

Emperor Tippy
2008-10-24, 08:35 PM
I like using them as vacuums. 250 cubic feet of space that by RAW is evacuated of all its contents when you turn the bag inside out. Turn it right side out and you all the sudden have a very nice vacuum.

Great for quickly getting that massive pile of treasure picked up when you are robbing that dragon.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-24, 08:55 PM
I like using them as vacuums. 250 cubic feet of space that by RAW is evacuated of all its contents when you turn the bag inside out. Turn it right side out and you all the sudden have a very nice vacuum.

Great for quickly getting that massive pile of treasure picked up when you are robbing that dragon.Thank you, I hadn't thought of that, but it makes perfect sense. And I game with engineering and physics majors, they'd both understand and approve. :smallbiggrin:

Hal
2008-10-24, 09:51 PM
My group came up with a custom magic item: The Tea-Bag of Holding.

To use it, you turn it upside down over your fallen foe, open it, and, well . . . I'm sure you can imagine the rest.

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-24, 11:31 PM
Thank you, I hadn't thought of that, but it makes perfect sense. And I game with engineering and physics majors, they'd both understand and approve. :smallbiggrin:

Catgirls.

I seem to recall a time when turning a bag of holding inside out destroyed it permanently.


we smuggled an army into a city using a bag......and dropped it by mistake into a gutter
from
EE
Man, your 'sig' is obnoxious. You have a signature you can set without pasting that into every post, you know.

What kind of army and what kind of bag of holding? The bag of holding IV only holds up to 1,500 pounds before it ruptures. I assume shrinking was involved. Can you elaborate? I want to know how to accomplish this for my own ends.

My group once used a bag of holding to transport a party member who had been injured (or poisoned or cursed or something) to the point where hie really couldn't walk. Rather than sticking him into the bag entirely and risk suffocation, we cinched it just under his armpits and carried him around. When he needed to manage something on his own, he would simply walk around in his hands. We tended to freak the NPCs out.

EvilElitest
2008-10-25, 12:09 AM
\

Man, your 'sig' is obnoxious. You have a signature you can set without pasting that into every post, you know.

Yes, i can't imagine the massive emotional damage reading two words must cause you on a regular basis


What kind of army and what kind of bag of holding? The bag of holding IV only holds up to 1,500 pounds before it ruptures. I assume shrinking was involved. Can you elaborate? I want to know how to accomplish this for my own ends.

50 troops, a specialized greater bag of holding (holds thirce the normal amount), shrink the people involved and equpite them mostly with mithril. The bag was also specialized so you could breath in it

from
EE

BobVosh
2008-10-25, 12:53 AM
[QUOTE=Irreverent Fool;5169615]Man, your 'sig' is obnoxious. You have a signature you can set without pasting that into every post, you know.

You are only feeding his power. He lives off of this!

I was more curious how you accidently loss it?

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-25, 03:49 AM
Yes, i can't imagine the massive emotional damage reading two words must cause you on a regular basis
Trust me, I'd ignore it if I could. Your frequent disregard for punctuation and occasional atrocities against syntax make your appended signature appear to be a continuance of your posts and before I can stop myself I've read it and tried to find some way in my mind for "from EE" to make sense at the end of the sentence. Then the glimpses of the Elder Ones start flashing through my mind and it all goes black for awhile... seriously though, you've got your name over there above your avatar (a splendid avatar, I might add) and an actual signature field. I don't understand your need to add additional lines to every post. But since we all know there's no reasoning with EvilElitist, let's just spoiler this rant and pretend appealing to both your sense of aesthetics and common courtesy will do a lick of good.


50 troops, a specialized greater bag of holding (holds thirce the normal amount), shrink the people involved and equpite them mostly with mithril. The bag was also specialized so you could breath in it

from
EE

Ah. So in other words: The typical "we can't be bothered to actually track what we've packed into this thing" bag of holding that my parties generally end up with. What happened to those poor guys? Losing an army can't be good for your Leadership score.

obnoxious
sig

Asbestos
2008-10-25, 04:08 AM
Trust me, I'd ignore it if I could. Your frequent disregard for punctuation and occasional atrocities against syntax make your appended signature appear to be a continuance of your posts and before I can stop myself I've read it and tried to find some way in my mind for "from EE" to make sense at the end of the sentence. Then the glimpses of the Elder Ones start flashing through my mind and it all goes black for awhile... seriously though, you've got your name over there above your avatar (a splendid avatar, I might add) and an actual signature field. I don't understand your need to add additional lines to every post. But since we all know there's no reasoning with EvilElitist, let's just spoiler this rant and pretend appealing to both your sense of aesthetics and common courtesy will do a lick of good.


Ah. So in other words: The typical "we can't be bothered to actually track what we've packed into this thing" bag of holding that my parties generally end up with. What happened to those poor guys? Losing an army can't be good for your Leadership score.

obnoxious
sig

Now, while I agree that I find the "From EE" thing a bit... grating. I will step up to defend EE (!!!!) on the spelling thing here. I believe he mentioned in a thread once that he didn't have a spell check in his browser/was dyslexic. Also, a number of playgrounders have ESL so I mean... lets not be jerks about spelling. We all know what he's saying, it isn't like he's writing in Greek or something.

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-25, 05:21 AM
Now, while I agree that I find the "From EE" thing a bit... grating. I will step up to defend EE (!!!!) on the spelling thing here. I believe he mentioned in a thread once that he didn't have a spell check in his browser/was dyslexic. Also, a number of playgrounders have ESL so I mean... lets not be jerks about spelling. We all know what he's saying, it isn't like he's writing in Greek or something.

My apologies.

obnoxious
sig

Da King
2008-10-25, 09:08 AM
My players in a game I was running used a bag of holding to transport themselves across a gap in a dungeon by stuffing everyone in and having the wizard use a spider climb spell to move across the ceiling.

I thought this was a creative way to get around it, now I only wish they would find uses for a bag of devouring that do not involve murder.

Waspinator
2008-10-25, 12:45 PM
Now, while I agree that I find the "From EE" thing a bit... grating. I will step up to defend EE (!!!!) on the spelling thing here. I believe he mentioned in a thread once that he didn't have a spell check in his browser/was dyslexic. Also, a number of playgrounders have ESL so I mean... lets not be jerks about spelling. We all know what he's saying, it isn't like he's writing in Greek or something.

Μάλλον ναι!

बहुत बहुत!

Kh như vậy!

wadledo
2008-10-25, 12:53 PM
I've got an Eithral Filcher monk//swordsage in a game around here.
So far, he's got two bodies in his bag of holding.
One: The mysterious masked warlock//sorcerer who got turned into a ghost by some weird little swarms,
and
The annoying Cleric//paladin who's soul I bet with a Vult on a game of dice.

It's surprisingly fun, because I'm going to have him put on a puppet show once he's got enough bodies.

obnoxious
sig

Devils_Advocate
2008-10-25, 08:39 PM
Yes, i can't imagine the massive emotional damage reading two words must cause you on a regular basis
EE, your sig is obnoxious. It irks me way more than it seems like it should, given that it's about as harmless as it is pointless. (We know who your posts are from, your screen name is right there in the lefthand column next to them.) I don't know why, but I'm betting this is a common reaction. If you don't believe me, poll people on this. I bet you'll find that a surprising number/percentage say "Yeah, that bugs me, stop doing it."

Unless you keep ending your posts with that in order to annoy people, in which case mission accomplished. (Given that there's no readily apparent other reason for you to do it, this seems reasonably likely.)


I believe he mentioned in a thread once that he didn't have a spell check in his browser/was dyslexic.
Firefox is free. If you're going to put up a bunch of Walls o' Text, you really should consider making a bit of an effort to make them fairly readable. If they take extra effort to parse, that just encourages people to ignore them, which defeats the purpose of producing them in the first place.

EvilElitest
2008-10-25, 09:17 PM
Trust me, I'd ignore it if I could.[S] Your frequent disregard for punctuation and occasional atrocities against syntax make your appended signature appear to be a continuance of your posts and

1) Dyslexia.....
2) How is it a countenance? its a line below, obviously another statement



before I can stop myself I've read it and tried to find some way in my mind for "from EE" to make sense at the end of the sentence. Then the glimpses of the Elder Ones start flashing through my mind and it all goes black for awhile... seriously though, you've got your name over there above your avatar (a splendid avatar, I might add) and an actual signature field. I don't understand your need to add additional lines to every post.
I like the sense of compilation and its unique. I really don't see why people make a big deal out of it, it doesnt hurt you in any way, it certainly doesn't make any offensive statement, and it really has not offensive manner to it, so the complaints always seem rather petty. Thanks for the avatar compliment


But since we all know there's no reasoning with EvilElitist, let's just spoiler this rant and pretend appealing to both your sense of aesthetics and common courtesy will do a lick of good.

First off, no need to insult me, second off, you have an absurd double standard. There is no reasoning with me, when there isn't any actual validity to the complaint, that doesn't render me entirely unreasonable. And considering you've just insulted me, talking about common courtesy is rather ironic. On that note, how is not adding "from EE" a common Courtesy. Insulting people's integrity is not common courtesy, derailing the thread with personal complaints is not common courtesy, but not writing a finish?



Ah. So in other words: The typical "we can't be bothered to actually track what we've packed into this thing" bag of holding that my parties generally end up with. What happened to those poor guys? Losing an army can't be good for your Leadership score.

Basically, the party was searched, a problem happened when a guard reached in to see what was in side, When his arm when up to his shoulder, he realized there was a problem. The wizard hit him in the face with a book, the guard punched him, the bag well into the gutter. The soldiers thought they were attacking, so came out of the bag in the aqueduct system, so suddenly 50 armed screaming soldiers came out of the city fountain. Ironically, they came out in the senate building, and caused a lot of chaos, but were killed (the original plan was to open the city gates) but hte last three hid in the bag again, which was swept away in the fighting. Bad day



obnoxious
sig
I didn't realize that we were back in grade school.




EE, your sig is obnoxious. It irks me way more than it seems like it should, given that it's about as harmless as it is pointless. (We know who your posts are from, your screen name is right there in the lefthand column next to them.) I don't know why, but I'm betting this is a common reaction. If you don't believe me, poll people on this. I bet you'll find that a surprising number/percentage say "Yeah, that bugs me, stop doing it."

1) yes, because two bloody words on the end of the post is so going to hurt you. Can people come up with reason for this other than "Wah, its obnoxious, i can't go on". Yes, its redundant, but why should that bother you. i like having a sense of completion at the end of my posts, so why should that bother you
2) I don't give a damn what public option on the matter is. I won't stop that over something so petty, when there isn't any valid complaint




Unless you keep ending your posts with that in order to annoy people, in which case mission accomplished. (Given that there's no readily apparent other reason for you to do it, this seems reasonably likely.)
Reasonably likely? Considering how harmless the statement is, i fail to see how that makes sense. If i wanted to annoy people, i'm sure i could find a much more valid way of doing that



Firefox is free. If you're going to put up a bunch of Walls o' Text, you really should consider making a bit of an effort to make them fairly readable. If they take extra effort to parse, that just encourages people to ignore them, which defeats the purpose of producing them in the first place
can i tell the next cripple i see that he isn't trying hard enough? And yes, i have firefox


Asbesos, just don't make a habit of it, if we agree to much who knows what might be destroyed
from
EE

Zeful
2008-10-25, 09:30 PM
Once turned inside out the (large) portion of the bag that was in the astral plane is now on the material plane, and the smaller part that was in the material plane is now in the astral plane, all things are now spilled out of it, and you have a large sack that can only fit a very small amount within.

This is how I've always understood it at least.

The bag of holding doesn't open into astral space. It's extra dimensional space not linked to a plane.

Anyway. A fun thing to do is take a bag of holding put it over an appendenge of a creature and then puncturing the bag. The limb is now "lost forever" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bagofHolding).

Ravens_cry
2008-10-25, 09:57 PM
Do that with the head 'appendage', and it is even MORE fun.
Kind of messy though.

Devils_Advocate
2008-10-25, 10:22 PM
I like the sense of compilation and its unique. I really don't see why people make a big deal out of it, it doesnt hurt you in any way, it certainly doesn't make any offensive statement, and it really has not offensive manner to it, so the complaints always seem rather petty.

<snip>

1) yes, because two bloody words on the end of the post is so going to hurt you. Can people come up with reason for this other than "Wah, its obnoxious, i can't go on". Yes, its redundant, but why should that bother you. i like having a sense of completion at the end of my posts, so why should that bother you
2) I don't give a damn what public option on the matter is. I won't stop that over something so petty, when there isn't any valid complaint
Of course we don't have a justification, it's an involuntary emotional reaction. I don't know exactly what mental machinery is producing my response or why, I just know what the response is. No one (that I know of) is saying that your sig is objectively bad or wrong, we're reporting how it makes us feel. How is "That's surprisingly annoying, please stop it" any less legitimate than "No, I like it, so I'm going to keep doing it"? You don't have any reason for what you're doing other than your own feelings either, from what I can see.

We're making an "invalid" complaint only in the sense that we can't point to any rules violation. In the sense of expressing actual dislike, we're making an entirely valid complaint, believe me. (If there's yet another relevant type of validity to which you were referring, feel free to clarify.) Being bothered by something seems like sufficient justification to ask someone to stop it. Not sufficient justification to coerce compliance, of course, that's a horse of a different color.

In short, we're complaining because it is hurtful, in a very broad sense of the word: It causes displeasure. You are under no obligation to respect our preferences, but if you don't, then don't be surprised if others are unwilling to respect yours.


can i tell the next cripple i see that he isn't trying hard enough?
Whether that's appropriate depends on how hard he is trying, no?

Smeggedoff
2008-10-25, 10:28 PM
How is "That's surprisingly annoying, please stop it" any less legitimate than "No, I like it, so I'm going to keep doing it"?

ah, therin lies the problem, legitimate or not, "No, I like it, so I'm going to keep doing it" trumps "That's surprisingly annoying, please stop it" because the complainer has no direct control of the what the complainee does

I've got no major problem with EE's sig, it keeps catching me but mostly I can skim over it.
I just found the idea of playing Devil's Advocate to someone called Devil's Advocate somewhat amusing :D

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-25, 10:48 PM
It annoys me as well. The sig space at the bottom of posts is there for a reason. Among other things, it makes a perfectly reasonable place to put your SIGNATURE. I don't know why it bugs me when people don't do that, but it does. The lack of spelling and grammar annoys me, but more because I compulsively spell-check my posts. Firefox does it automatically, it would make them much easier to read if you'd use it.

chiasaur11
2008-10-25, 10:55 PM
It annoys me as well. The sig space at the bottom of posts is there for a reason. Among other things, it makes a perfectly reasonable place to put your SIGNATURE. I don't know why it bugs me when people don't do that, but it does. The lack of spelling and grammar annoys me, but more because I compulsively spell-check my posts. Firefox does it automatically, it would make them much easier to read if you'd use it.

Chrome has spellcheck too.

Somewhat less comprehensive, but it's still useful.

Vexxation
2008-10-25, 11:10 PM
Yeah, EE, your little siggy is a bit of an annoyance. I think I know why. It might sound a bit insulting.
I think that we posters who dislike it think that there's a bit of arrogance, a bit of... elitism... behind putting it there. As has been said, your name is RIGHT THERE on the right. We don't need you to tell us who just typed that. Now, if the board were anonymous, it'd be different. But you have an account for a reason. Adding "From EE" just makes me feel like you think you have to make it extra clear who said it. It feels elitist and that bugs me. I'm not saying to stop, as I have no such right, just that this may be the reason for others' displeasure.

monty
2008-10-25, 11:15 PM
Yeah, EE, your little siggy is a bit of an annoyance. I think I know why. It might sound a bit insulting.
I think that we posters who dislike it think that there's a bit of arrogance, a bit of... elitism... behind putting it there. As has been said, your name is RIGHT THERE on the right. We don't need you to tell us who just typed that. Now, if the board were anonymous, it'd be different. But you have an account for a reason. Adding "From EE" just makes me feel like you think you have to make it extra clear who said it. It feels elitist and that bugs me. I'm not saying to stop, as I have no such right, just that this may be the reason for others' displeasure.

It never quite bothered me enough to post about, but it is a bit patronizing.

olelia
2008-10-25, 11:24 PM
Sooo...back on the topic at hand. Fun things to do is stuff premade iron golems before they are enchanted...enchant them inside the bag and turn it inside out at enemies. Projectiles of DEATH!

Smeggedoff
2008-10-26, 12:29 AM
where does it say things are expelled with force? I thought it pretty much dumped everything out at your feet

SoD
2008-10-26, 04:45 AM
On what seems be the suprisingly agile underdog topic of the day: EE's 'not-actually-a-sig' sig.

It hasn't really ever annoyed me, and it actually raises my repect for him, marginally. One comment was that it merely adds a few lines to his post. As previously noted, he could just put 'from EE' in his sig. However...there would still be the same amount, or, I beleive, slightly more space taken up. Instead of putting it in his sig, he goes to the trouble of typing those extra 7 characters, every time. Good to him, I say.

And, on the original topic: Bags of Holding. One group I've had were on a mission to asssassinate a prince. A bunch of the PC's tried the obvious tactic of barging in and trying to fight their way in. The Gnomish rogue/sorcerer, however, had a better plan. First opportunity, he knocks out a human guard, drags him away, strips him, and casts shrink item on the uniform, which now roughly fits him. He dons the uniform, and pops back out and, when he sees a bunch of guard running off, correctly assumes that their going to protect the prince. He follows, and kills them. He then wanders until he finds a guard, and asks where the princes bedroom was (I've only been here two days! I don't konw where anything is! Please! I've got to help him!). When shown, he then slays the helpful-but-slightly-dimwitted guard. He then runs in, slams the door, and locks it. He describes the situation to the prince (they're here to kill you, but I've got a way you can escape!) and offers a way out: a combination of a bag of holding, and a bottle of air. Climb in, and breathe through the bottle. The prince, desperate to escape (after a loud explosion is heard, fairly close), climbs in. Then the Gnome sneaks off at first opportunity to claim the reward for hisself. How did he assassinate the prince? It was an ordinary bottle.

BobVosh
2008-10-26, 06:00 AM
1) yes, because two bloody words on the end of the post is so going to hurt you. Can people come up with reason for this other than "Wah, its obnoxious, i can't go on". Yes, its redundant, but why should that bother you. i like having a sense of completion at the end of my posts, so why should that bother you
2) I don't give a damn what public option on the matter is. I won't stop that over something so petty, when there isn't any valid complaint

I have a reason. I like to pretend I'm playing paranoia and for a flaw I took "Can only read so many characters each night before nerd rage overcomes me." Your 6 letters every post consumes this. CURSE YOU EE!!!

I actually like the "From EE," makes him more unique from each other poster

Back to Bags of holding: I lost my mount at some point as a halfling. I eventually moved into the bag, and had a ring of sustence so I could live in there. As a plus whenever I closed the bag everything was refridgerated.

Note for my spelling: I mainly post at work and can't install anything. I apologize, as spelling irks me at home. 'Tis a vicious cycle.

newbDM
2008-10-26, 06:18 AM
Driders on the ceiling. With Bags of Holding. Full of Anvils. Hilarity ensues.

My Tiney sized (and eventually Small sized) copper dragon PC Kethend (His notebook with his character sheet and other stuff, and a nametag is actually over my computer right now staring at me...) did that. He also had barrel sized glass flasks in there filled with acid (aka his spit), normal lugie-filled glass flasks, his 10ft poking pole, a 20ft ladder, and his two bought slave kobolds (from a crooked city) with a gnome tinker made air tank + a table + two chairs + some board games (found in the Arms & Equipment Guide) plus a deck of playing card.


If I remember correctly, in 3.5 (this thread is 3.5 right?) falling damage is 1d6 for every 10ft. If I remember correctly, he could get over 100ft up in a single move action. I even gave him the Improved Maneuverability feat just for this stuff.

Also, maxed out Hide (with the bonuses for Tiny sized), maxed out Move Silently, and maxed out Bluff. He took everything he could get his little hands on and lift. :smallbiggrin:

hotel_papa
2008-10-26, 07:04 AM
On topic- Bags of holding are perfect ways to smuggle Warforged onto lightning rails for free. Portable holes and a Winged Dragonwroght Kobold Ninja with a Ring of Invisibility are perfect ways to smuggle anyone to anywhere you can fly in 10 minutes.

On bonus topic- Yeah, putting a couple of extra letters at the bottom of your post for no reason other than to reinforce a nickname you enjoy and have grown accustomed to... totally annoying, and deeply, personally harmful to everyone unfortunate enough to read it. I would never also do that in every post I've written, ever.

HP

P.S. I've been gone a month or two: What's with all the cat-muffins?

Roland St. Jude
2008-10-26, 07:05 AM
Sheriff of Moddingham: Please stay on topic - or least off the topic of whether another poster can or should sign his posts. Telling other posters what to do or trying to moderate their board behavior is strongly discouraged around here.

3Horn

newbDM
2008-10-26, 07:08 AM
Sheriff of Moddingham: Please stay on topic - or least off the topic of whether another poster can or should sign his posts. Telling other posters what to do or trying to moderate their board behavior is strongly discouraged around here.

3Horn

Thank you. I felt this thread had great potential for good ideas/material, and possibly good laughs.

Copacetic
2008-10-26, 08:33 AM
My brother once came up with a brilliant idea idea for how to deal with the Tarrasque. Something to do with a bag of holding and a portable hole in some contraption, so whenever you dropped it it dropped the portable hole in the bag of holding. Then you drop that on the Tarrasque, and it gets sucked into the Astral Plane


from
That one other guy.

Kris Strife
2008-10-26, 08:34 AM
Field latrines, but maybe not your own bag. :p I wonder how many BoH and PHs were installed in castles for this purpose?

Vexxation
2008-10-26, 08:43 AM
Field latrines, but maybe not your own bag. :p I wonder how many BoH and PHs were installed in castles for this purpose?

I think you mean "field latrine/mass demoralization tool"

Imagine, an ex-latrine loaded into a trebuchet, tethered such that upon reaching its vertex over the enemy it inverts itself... spilling out its contents...

newbDM
2008-10-26, 08:52 AM
Field latrines, but maybe not your own bag. :p I wonder how many BoH and PHs were installed in castles for this purpose?

1. Isn't there a Bag of Devouring, or something like that? I think that would be a better option for this...

2. There is a party member in my current game (which I play in), who I am now seriously pondering if he has a Bag of Holding. :smallbiggrin:

Kris Strife
2008-10-26, 08:56 AM
1. Isn't there a Bag of Devouring, or something like that? I think that would be a better option for this...

2. There is a party member in my current game (which I play in), who I am now seriously pondering if he has a Bag of Holding. :smallbiggrin:

true, but you named one reason, and the post above yours had another. It could also be used as fertilizer transport, or to poison a water supply.

Vexxation
2008-10-26, 08:57 AM
to poison a water supply.

With feces!

newbDM
2008-10-26, 09:06 AM
With feces!

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/roflmao.gif



Wasn't there something like this in a FF game...

Kris Strife
2008-10-26, 09:10 AM
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/roflmao.gif



Wasn't there something like this in a FF game...

well Kefka poisoned a towns water supply, but I dont think it was with feces... he would though...

Vexxation
2008-10-26, 09:14 AM
Wasn't there something like this in a FF game...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Doma was poisoned with real poison.

I just like the idea of poisoning an evil fortress with poo-water.

newbDM
2008-10-26, 09:38 AM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Doma was poisoned with real poison.

I just like the idea of poisoning an evil fortress with poo-water.

So if you are besieging an impenetrable enemy fortress/keep/stronghold/city/etc, just have all your troops take their daily needs in the stream leading inside?

Vexxation
2008-10-26, 09:43 AM
So if you are besieging an impenetrable enemy fortress/keep/stronghold/city/etc, just have all your troops take their daily needs in the stream leading inside?

But that has no immediate impact. If, instead, you set up a "sanitation" system in your own capital wherein it all goes into two or three main Bags of Holding, then on Day One of the Invasion you can completely pollute the enemy water supply.

The same tactic could be done with salting their fields, or salting their water, or throwing animated undead over their walls en masse.

newbDM
2008-10-26, 09:49 AM
But that has no immediate impact. If, instead, you set up a "sanitation" system in your own capital wherein it all goes into two or three main Bags of Holding, then on Day One of the Invasion you can completely pollute the enemy water supply.QUOTE]


True, but I think two or three bags wouldn't be nearly enough to taint the water, and it would be filled pretty quickly in your city too boot. They are not that big.

Plus, for the price of a single Bag of Holding (remember, an average commoner makes a mere 1sp a day, 36gp + 5sp a year) you could probably buy every smelly cart of fertilizer in your kingdom (or a neighboring one) and then some.


[QUOTE=Vexxation;5175568]The same tactic could be done with salting their fields, or salting their water, or throwing animated undead over their walls en masse.

Hmm. Thanks for the ideas. I right them down in my DM ideas notes.

But, what exactly does putting salt on fields do?

Vexxation
2008-10-26, 10:12 AM
But, what exactly does putting salt on fields do?

Well, the Romans salted Carthage, if I recall correctly.
Their crops didn't start to grow very well for a looooong time.

Salting kills plants. No plants, no food. No food, no progress, no civilization, eventually, no life.

phoenixcire
2008-10-26, 10:15 AM
I don't understand the vacuum idea.

If you turn a bag inside out, it dumps its contents. If you then turn it right side out, which is its original state, you'd just have a bag of holding again.

Is there something I'm missing?

celestialkin
2008-10-26, 10:34 AM
I don't understand the vacuum idea.

If you turn a bag inside out, it dumps its contents. If you then turn it right side out, which is its original state, you'd just have a bag of holding again.

Is there something I'm missing?

Well, I am thinking they are using the inter-dimensional space/pocket dimension as the reason.

However, I personally feel that for that to be the case you have to assume that the inter-dimensional space reappears immediately once you turn it in right side in (like an immediate action/milliseconds), or that the inter-dimensional never really disappears. But the later could not be the case, because then the pocket dimension would then come outside along with the items (as a huge purple/black bubble/bulb maybe?). And I do not believe the prior has been stated anywhere. Perhaps the pocket dimension might reform a bit slower, so the air gets sucked in slower as well, or at least slow enough where a halfing using one won't end up inside each time.

phoenixcire
2008-10-26, 10:48 AM
We must remember that it's magic. I'm sure that during the creation of such an item there isn't a vacuum type effect, or the creator would have to take caution or be sucked in.

The description of the item only says, "If a bag of holding is turned inside out, its contents spill out, unharmed, but the bag must be put right before it can be used again."

No disclaimer about avoidance of being sucked in. That comes when you put a Portable Hole within a Bag of Holding. "If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process."

I figured that if you turn it inside out it acts as if it were dispelled. When you return it to normal, it's just normal.

hamishspence
2008-10-26, 10:53 AM
For mysterious reasons, this seems to be response to any big supernatural threat: Buffy: the Institute: "Burn it down, and salt the earth."

Maybe because salt, in mythology, wards off threats. Remains in the superstition of tossing a pinch of salt over one's shoulder?

Selrahc
2008-10-26, 12:08 PM
If you salt the earth you wreck the soil. Salting the earth is something you do to stop things being rebuilt. Since it was a really despicable act from classical times, it gained a certain symbolic importance. When the Romans salted Carthage, they did so as a symbolic gesture.

hamishspence
2008-10-26, 12:13 PM
Which makes idea of doing it to the ground of a research facility...odd. But then, its one in a Modern Fantasy world.

Shadow_Elf
2008-10-26, 09:04 PM
We must remember that it's magic. I'm sure that during the creation of such an item there isn't a vacuum type effect, or the creator would have to take caution or be sucked in.

The description of the item only says, "If a bag of holding is turned inside out, its contents spill out, unharmed, but the bag must be put right before it can be used again."

No disclaimer about avoidance of being sucked in. That comes when you put a Portable Hole within a Bag of Holding. "If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process."

I figured that if you turn it inside out it acts as if it were dispelled. When you return it to normal, it's just normal.

When you turn the bag inside out, it also expels all the air contained therein. When you turn it right side in, it sucks up everything around it. Which is typically air. Or treasure, in the case where it was used as a vacuum.
At least that's my understanding.

This thread has generated some pretty awesome ideas. The campaign I'm planning will involve a lot on intrigue and assassinations and kidnapping and all that good stuff. And pirates.

Also, thanks to Roland St. Jude for putting this thread back on track. I forgot to read it for awhile, and come back to all of that...

Finally, *bump*

Kris Strife
2008-10-26, 11:33 PM
Which makes idea of doing it to the ground of a research facility...odd. But then, its one in a Modern Fantasy world.

Salting the Earth is a euphimism for making sure they dont come back or get replaced, or at least cant use the same location.

phoenixcire
2008-10-26, 11:48 PM
When you turn the bag inside out, it also expels all the air contained therein. When you turn it right side in, it sucks up everything around it. Which is typically air. Or treasure, in the case where it was used as a vacuum.
At least that's my understanding.

It doesn't expel anything, it just dumps...just as if you were to dump from a normal bag. The bag doesn't seem to have a special quality for air movement. The only effect it seems to have on air is the fact that when it is closed it is air tight.

Remember, the bag is a magical space. I see it as this: when you turn it inside out, that space ceases to exist. When you put it back correctly, the space is just there again. It isn't as if air is vacuum sucked into it when it is created.

Although, it would be easy to manufacture a bag with such intention. 'Tis a great idea, wish I had come up with it.

Enlong
2008-10-27, 12:02 AM
Heeeeey! Where's that guy with the story that comes to a climax with "when you combine a Bag of Holding with a Portable Hole, STUFF HAPPENS!"? That is what this thread needs right now.

Yahzi
2008-10-27, 12:28 AM
For mysterious reasons, this seems to be response to any big supernatural threat: Buffy: the Institute: "Burn it down, and salt the earth."
As Sel said, it's a metaphor for "kill it, and then make sure it can't ever come back."

Avilan the Grey
2008-10-27, 04:55 AM
The obvious use for it is to store all you ten foot poles.

Thief / Rogue uses for BoH:

Similar ideas, used: Our thief had it full of both "spanish horsemen" (what do you call them? The spike things you throw on the ground to stop horses?) and marbles. Imagine the effect of TONS marbles rolling down a sloped corridor. Stops a lot of Orcs, that's for sure...
The spiked thingies were messier, but worked nicely too.

Thanatos 51-50
2008-10-27, 05:22 AM
Heeeeey! Where's that guy with the story that comes to a climax with "when you combine a Bag of Holding with a Portable Hole, STUFF HAPPENS!"? That is what this thread needs right now.

That was an AWESOME story.
All my BoH escapedes have been fairly mundane.

Ethdred
2008-10-27, 06:15 AM
The obvious use for it is to store all you ten foot poles.

Thief / Rogue uses for BoH:

Similar ideas, used: Our thief had it full of both "spanish horsemen" (what do you call them? The spike things you throw on the ground to stop horses?) and marbles. Imagine the effect of TONS marbles rolling down a sloped corridor. Stops a lot of Orcs, that's for sure...
The spiked thingies were messier, but worked nicely too.

I think you mean 'caltrops' but I've never heard them refered to as 'spanish horsemen'. Is that a Swedish thing? Which makes me think it refers to something out of the 30 Years War.

Sorry, dragging it off topic again. But I'm afraid I have nothing remotely amusing to relate with respect to Bags of Holding, or extra-dimensional spaces in general (except for when the party wizard decided to hide up a Rope Trick spell forgetting he had a Heward's Handy Haversack). But I like the idea of being on the ceiling with a bag full of anvils!

Avilan the Grey
2008-10-27, 09:39 AM
I think you mean 'caltrops' but I've never heard them refered to as 'spanish horsemen'. Is that a Swedish thing? Which makes me think it refers to something out of the 30 Years War.

Yes, it's a Swedish thing. And yes, Caltrops is the word I was looking for.

newbDM
2008-10-27, 12:30 PM
Well, I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but BoH are always useful for carrying dead party members...

Merlon
2008-10-27, 12:55 PM
We call them "spanish horses" in my country. And with these, i can see how to stop a horse

http://www.track48.com/products-hauler/HLX48014.jpg


We use BoH -s mostly as grenade-carriers. Once or twice as heavy bombers with flying PC-s. Once in firefighting.

Zeful
2008-10-27, 01:04 PM
Once in firefighting.

That got me thinking, what if we armed Jackie Chan with a Portable hole to fight with. How would that go?

golentan
2008-10-27, 01:06 PM
What I did one time was, during a siege, we had a type IV bag. And a whole lot of oil (stream through the castle + water to oil spell). And a stove. It took quite a while for the oil to boil inside the bag, and it let to jokes about "Kentucky fried haversacks." Still, the scene where my nemesis was climbing the ladder, and sat there and turned the bag upside down: Priceless. I think we worked it out to 10d6 damage, heat metal on his equipment (total immersion, boiling substance for 1 round), and a bull rush attempt by the oil to knock him off the ladder. It succeeded (and he was 120 ft up). I killed the guy who had been a constant thorn in my side for the last ten sessions in one round, and wiped out about 50 nameless mooks standing in the path of the oil.

Good times.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-27, 07:48 PM
It doesn't expel anything, it just dumps...just as if you were to dump from a normal bag.Including the air. When the bag is dumped, everything leaves, meaning the ED space is now empty. When the bag is corrected, it then has a vacuum inside, which is refilled the only way possible, suction. How much suction is there with 250' of vacuum again?

Moff Chumley
2008-10-27, 08:08 PM
BoH's animated as constructs... good times. :smallwink:

Enlong
2008-10-27, 08:53 PM
Including the air. When the bag is dumped, everything leaves, meaning the ED space is now empty. When the bag is corrected, it then has a vacuum inside, which is refilled the only way possible, suction. How much suction is there with 250' of vacuum again?

That all depends: how much air would there be in a 250^3 feet of bag such that one creature can only breathe for 10 minutes? (that's how much air is in the bag, and how much air would be pulled back in)

newbDM
2008-10-27, 09:38 PM
BoH's animated as constructs... good times. :smallwink:

How would that work?

Nast DM idea coming to mind......:smallbiggrin:

Ravens_cry
2008-10-27, 09:47 PM
As fun as that would be, isn't that against RAW, in reference to, "nonmagical material"?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateObjects.htm

streakster
2008-10-27, 10:00 PM
So animate the bag, permanency it, then make it a bag of holding.

monty
2008-10-27, 11:09 PM
Or Dispel Magic, Animate, end Dispel.

Lappy9000
2008-10-27, 11:24 PM
Bags of holding get real interesting when you have living constructs that don't need to breath.

By the way, would anyone here rule that 'jumping into' a bag of holding in mid fall (from a very long drop) would negate falling damage? After all, you are in an extradimensional space and only the bag is falling/making contact with the ground.

monty
2008-10-27, 11:27 PM
Bags of holding get real interesting when you have living constructs that don't need to breath.

By the way, would anyone here rule that 'jumping into' a bag of holding in mid fall (from a very long drop) would negate falling damage? After all, you are in an extradimensional space and only the bag is falling/making contact with the ground.

Very well. You get into the bag, taking no damage. The bag falls on a nail that happened to be lying there and is punctured; you are lost forever.

Lappy9000
2008-10-27, 11:28 PM
Very well. You get into the bag, taking no damage. The bag falls on a nail that happened to be lying there and is punctured; you are lost forever.

And hilarity ensues.

BobVosh
2008-10-28, 12:05 AM
Bags of holding get real interesting when you have living constructs that don't need to breath.

By the way, would anyone here rule that 'jumping into' a bag of holding in mid fall (from a very long drop) would negate falling damage? After all, you are in an extradimensional space and only the bag is falling/making contact with the ground.

You continue your fall however deep the bag is and take fall damage based off how far you have fallen before and after entering the bag. It is shorter than say 150. I believe the bag is 30 feet deep. Is that portable hole?

Meh.

ThrustVectoring
2008-10-28, 12:33 AM
I prefer using either Dispel Magic or Antimagic Field for smuggling. You take the bag, dis-enchant it temporarily, put stuff in the (now mundane) sack, then a portal springs up over the mouth keeping anyone from getting to the secret stash.

what happens if you turn the bag inside-out afterward, though?

Also, would this allow you to put a bag of holding in the regular-space of the other bag of holding?

Asbestos
2008-10-28, 12:37 AM
what happens if you turn the bag inside-out afterward, though?

Also, would this allow you to put a bag of holding in the regular-space of the other bag of holding?

The first... is a very good question. I think that whatever was inside would fall out.

The second... the bags blow up when they exit the anti-magic zone and the portal in a portal situation is created.

golentan
2008-10-28, 12:39 AM
You continue your fall however deep the bag is and take fall damage based off how far you have fallen before and after entering the bag. It is shorter than say 150. I believe the bag is 30 feet deep. Is that portable hole?

Meh.

I'd personally houserule that you fall extra distance equal to the depth of the bag, but it slows you somewhat so you use the falling into water rules. Congratulations, you've just succeeded in turning 1d6 lethal into 2d3 nonlethal, and go on to take the rest of the 14d6 lethal damage. Tell me how that works out for you. :smallbiggrin:

Talic
2008-10-28, 12:51 AM
Animate Objects + permanency
Shrink.
Insert in bag of holding.

Assuming objects are small, and are say, similar to chairs or the like, we can assume that in full size, they weigh no more than 40 pounds.

Shrinking 1 size category would reduce weight by a factor of 8. Thus, our 40 pound object now weighs 5 pounds.

That's 300 chairs. Remove at will later for a fun strike force. Bonus points if you use brooms, and recreate scenes from Fantasia.

Avilan the Grey
2008-10-28, 01:59 AM
Aside for the marbles and caltrops, we didn't do much fun with it (carrying dead party members, yes)

The only other thing we did was to trap some kind of falling monster (don't remember what). We were resting up after a fight in a dungeon, and all of a sudden something drops from the cave roof right over the unconscious fighter. The thief is the only one that notices and thinks quickly: He grabs the bag, opens it and the thing falls into it. Unfortunately we lost the bag later that campaign. I hope the goblin shaman that took it got a faceful of whatever that was).

I have had friends that have been more creative; I remember a Rat Catcher event (with undead rats, no less) where they used the magical flute to lure the beasts away from a kobold cave (yes they were helping the kobolds, and yes, it was an adventure based on the fairy tale) but instead of luring them away somewhere, simply led them into the bag. Hilarity ensued when they surprised an evil wizard by opening the bag in his library during a fight. Not only did he had a hard time concentrating with 200 rat skeletons attacking him, them, and stuff, but he lost 2/3rds of his invaluable book collection to rat nibbling before he could drive them out.
(The wizard survived, barely, but my friend's party got the artifact they needed, they had severely cramped his style, and the authorities that had hired them to get rid of the wizard thought it was a good enough job; they had no problem expelling him from their town afterwards).

Khanderas
2008-10-28, 02:40 AM
EE spells well enough to not have caught the eye of a grammar-nazi like myself. Seems cheap to point to dyslexia for the (must be since I dont recall seeing any) minor mistakes on a forumboard on the internet. Face it, the general spelling level (if there is such a thing) are on par with deranged badgers high on mushrooms.


From
EE
Is... distracting... I always thought of it as an ego thing. /shrug.


Regarding fun with bags of holding, I cant top the idea of animating it, and use it as a bag of capturing. (Suddenly the bag rises up and jumps over your head. You are now captured, puncture the bag and you are lost forever in a timeless space).

newbDM
2008-10-28, 06:32 AM
Aside for the marbles and caltrops, we didn't do much fun with it (carrying dead party members, yes)

The only other thing we did was to trap some kind of falling monster (don't remember what). We were resting up after a fight in a dungeon, and all of a sudden something drops from the cave roof right over the unconscious fighter. The thief is the only one that notices and thinks quickly: He grabs the bag, opens it and the thing falls into it. Unfortunately we lost the bag later that campaign. I hope the goblin shaman that took it got a faceful of whatever that was).

Did it resemble a Piercer (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article95.htm)?


I figured that would pop the bag...

Lappy9000
2008-10-28, 08:22 AM
I'd personally houserule that you fall extra distance equal to the depth of the bag, but it slows you somewhat so you use the falling into water rules. Congratulations, you've just succeeded in turning 1d6 lethal into 2d3 nonlethal, and go on to take the rest of the 14d6 lethal damage. Tell me how that works out for you. :smallbiggrin:

.....what?

golentan
2008-10-28, 02:40 PM
The hypothetical fall in this case was 150 ft, and we said the bag was thirty feet deep. Falling into water means that the first 20 feet deal no damage, then the next 20 deal 1d3 nonlethal/10 ft, then the rest deals normal falling damage.

So, without the bag you take 15d6 damage from falling 150 feet. With the bag you fall 180 ft, ignore 20, change 20. That's 140 ft of lethal, and 20 ft of nonlethal d3s. 14d6 lethal + 2d3 nonlethal. The only real effect is to basically convert 1d6 lethal into 2d3 nonlethal, and I have a feeling that won't have a significant impact on survivability. Clear?

monty
2008-10-28, 02:42 PM
I think the argument was that you carry the bag yourself and get into it as you're falling. So you don't fall 150 feet into the bag, you fall 0 feet climbing in and then 30 within the bag.

Lappy9000
2008-10-28, 02:51 PM
I think the argument was that you carry the bag yourself and get into it as you're falling. So you don't fall 150 feet into the bag, you fall 0 feet climbing in and then 30 within the bag.
^
^
That's what I assumed was going on.

2xSlick
2008-10-29, 01:13 AM
By the way, would anyone here rule that 'jumping into' a bag of holding in mid fall (from a very long drop) would negate falling damage? After all, you are in an extradimensional space and only the bag is falling/making contact with the ground.


Since you and the bag are falling at the same speed, I'd say you would enter the bag at the same velocity as if both the bag and yourself were stationary so you'd take no damage.

If fell out of a window and landed in an open BoH, you'd take normal falling damage. If you somehow were to fall and land inside a BoH that would turn itself inside-out the instant you entered it, you'd have a magical trampoline.

Avilan the Grey
2008-10-29, 02:44 AM
Did it resemble a Piercer (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article95.htm)?


I figured that would pop the bag...

You would think, but no; it was something slimy. Some kind of ooze perhaps (it's been 15 years)


Speaking of BoHs; anyone out there that has houserules for The Luggage? Now that is a piece of equipment I would love to have in D&D: Sentient, pissy, loyal, strong like a locomotive and stubborn like 200 mules. And it has no problem eating things.

Ravens_cry
2008-10-29, 03:18 AM
I know there is a Discworld supplement for GURPS. It would almost certainly have some Luggage stats, but I don't know how translatable the systems are.

only1doug
2008-10-29, 07:12 AM
the Luggage:

Ok lets give our bag of holding an alternate form;

We'll start with a base of Ironwood chest and make that into a bag of holding and then animate object.

For reasons of flavour we'd have to carve multiple legs for our chest, but that gives us a satisfactorary speed (50').

Meh, too wimpy, Lets do this differently,

Start with a base of Iron Golem (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#ironGolem)

Iron Golem
Size/Type: Large Construct
Hit Dice: 18d10+30 (129 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 30 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +22 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 30
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+28
Attack: Slam +23 melee (2d10+11)
Full Attack: 2 slams +23 melee (2d10+11)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath weapon
Special Qualities: Construct traits, damage reduction 15/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to magic, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +6
Abilities: Str 33, Dex 9, Con , Int , Wis 11, Cha 1
Skills:
Feats:
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary or gang (2-4)
Challenge Rating: 13
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 19-24 HD (Large); 25-54 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment:


The Luggage
Size/Type: Medium Construct
Hit Dice: 18d10+30 (129 hp)
Initiative:
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (+10 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+28
Attack: Slam +23 melee (2d10+11)
Full Attack: slam +23 melee (2d10+11), Bite +23 melee
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Swallow Whole, Bullrush
Special Qualities: Construct traits, damage reduction 15/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to magic, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +6
Abilities: Str 33, Dex 10, Con , Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 1
Skills:
Feats: Swallow whole, improved bullrush
Environment: Any
Challenge Rating: 13?

speed up. AC down, Int Up

chiasaur11
2008-10-29, 11:22 AM
the Luggage:

Ok lets give our bag of holding an alternate form;

We'll start with a base of Ironwood chest and make that into a bag of holding and then animate object.

For reasons of flavour we'd have to carve multiple legs for our chest, but that gives us a satisfactorary speed (50').

Meh, too wimpy, Lets do this differently,

Start with a base of Iron Golem (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#ironGolem)

Iron Golem
Size/Type: Large Construct
Hit Dice: 18d10+30 (129 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 30 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +22 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 30
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+28
Attack: Slam +23 melee (2d10+11)
Full Attack: 2 slams +23 melee (2d10+11)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath weapon
Special Qualities: Construct traits, damage reduction 15/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to magic, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +6
Abilities: Str 33, Dex 9, Con , Int , Wis 11, Cha 1
Skills:
Feats:
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary or gang (2-4)
Challenge Rating: 13
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 19-24 HD (Large); 25-54 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment:


The Luggage
Size/Type: Medium Construct
Hit Dice: 18d10+30 (129 hp)
Initiative:
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (+10 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+28
Attack: Slam +23 melee (2d10+11)
Full Attack: slam +23 melee (2d10+11), Bite +23 melee
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Swallow Whole, Bullrush
Special Qualities: Construct traits, damage reduction 15/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to magic, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +6
Abilities: Str 33, Dex 10, Con , Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 1
Skills:
Feats: Swallow whole, improved bullrush
Environment: Any
Challenge Rating: 13?

speed up. AC down, Int Up


That's it?

The Luggage eats the nastiest demons known for a snack.

I figure he's a tiny bit deadlier than the average Iron Golem.

Worira
2008-10-29, 06:16 PM
The hypothetical fall in this case was 150 ft, and we said the bag was thirty feet deep. Falling into water means that the first 20 feet deal no damage, then the next 20 deal 1d3 nonlethal/10 ft, then the rest deals normal falling damage.

So, without the bag you take 15d6 damage from falling 150 feet. With the bag you fall 180 ft, ignore 20, change 20. That's 140 ft of lethal, and 20 ft of nonlethal d3s. 14d6 lethal + 2d3 nonlethal. The only real effect is to basically convert 1d6 lethal into 2d3 nonlethal, and I have a feeling that won't have a significant impact on survivability. Clear?

You don't add the depth of the water to the damage taken. Either the bag counts as water, in which case you take 11d6+2d3, or it doesn't, in which case it's 18d6.

Weezer
2008-10-29, 06:41 PM
One of my parties made it a habit of everyone hiding in bags of holding, giving the bags to the party rogue and having the rogue sneak them all in, it was a good idea untill the sneak in took longer than expected and the whole party started to suffocate.

Once the barbarian stuffed a gnome rogue into the bag to save him for later questioning. The rogue then attempted to cut his way out, unaware of the "lost forever" clause of the rules, the party was rather angry when the bag sudenly ruptured and their captive was gone forever:smallsmile:.

my group loved their bag

Innis Cabal
2008-10-29, 06:45 PM
Pull it inside out and walk through the dungeon walls

golentan
2008-10-29, 06:54 PM
You don't add the depth of the water to the damage taken. Either the bag counts as water, in which case you take 11d6+2d3, or it doesn't, in which case it's 18d6.

What I meant was hitting the *bottom of the bag* was equivalent to hitting water for damage purposes. Not that the inside of the bag was equivalent to the aqueous environment. The bag has a depth of 30 ft, which gets added to the fall, and then the *bottom* counts as a sufficiently soft and morphic substrate that you treat it as water for determining the net effects of the fall. The surface of the "water" is at the bottom of the bag, not the top. All of which is irrelevant because the question I was trying to answer turned out never to have been asked. I stand by my ruling for the unasked question, but have no clue how to deal with the other.

Oh, and here's a thought: that item making homunculus. It doesn't require air, so you can shove it inside a portable hole then have it pull the hole shut after itself. Do this at the base of the king's throne on a day without court, then order it to make a bag of holding (you give it the requisite materials). Two days later, the king sits down to hold court, the homunculus finishes the bag, and BOOM!

How's that for an assassination tactic?

Callos_DeTerran
2008-10-29, 06:55 PM
You know what's bizarrely fun? Realize that the kobolds your fighting have been using portable holes as pit traps, thus re-using them once we bypassed them by collecting them and setting them down further ahead.

Not so much fun when the only person who thought to buy a bag of holding failed the reflex save and fell into it, but then again the party pack mule DOES have a low reflex save. Being 'lost forever' isn't as fun as it sounds. :smalltongue:

Asbestos
2008-10-29, 06:58 PM
Pull it inside out and walk through the dungeon walls

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd80/AwXomeMan/morbo.jpg
Bags of Holding do not work that way!!


Lol, old jokes. :smalltongue:

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-29, 09:06 PM
What I meant was hitting the *bottom of the bag* was equivalent to hitting water for damage purposes. Not that the inside of the bag was equivalent to the aqueous environment. The bag has a depth of 30 ft, which gets added to the fall, and then the *bottom* counts as a sufficiently soft and morphic substrate that you treat it as water for determining the net effects of the fall. The surface of the "water" is at the bottom of the bag, not the top. All of which is irrelevant because the question I was trying to answer turned out never to have been asked. I stand by my ruling for the unasked question, but have no clue how to deal with the other.

Oh, and here's a thought: that item making homunculus. It doesn't require air, so you can shove it inside a portable hole then have it pull the hole shut after itself. Do this at the base of the king's throne on a day without court, then order it to make a bag of holding (you give it the requisite materials). Two days later, the king sits down to hold court, the homunculus finishes the bag, and BOOM!

How's that for an assassination tactic?Is there any reason the Bag didn't do no damage, due to the fact that bag was falling at the same rate as the person? I may be misunderstanding, but heres how I see it: Player A is falling
Player A opens bag
Bag is now falling next to Player A
Player A climbs into bag, is in non-dimensional space
Bag hits ground
Player A is unaffected

Moff Chumley
2008-10-29, 09:10 PM
I'd just say that the PC hits the ground to fast to do anything, unless they had the bag out before they jumped.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-29, 09:15 PM
I'd just say that the PC hits the ground to fast to do anything, unless they had the bag out before they jumped.You fall 150' in the first round of the fall. Opening the bag and pulling something out is a Move action(~3 seconds). The fall was 180 feet. Enough time for a full-round action, easy, which should be more than enough.

Moff Chumley
2008-10-29, 09:16 PM
I didn't say RAW, I said the way I would rule. Common Sense>RAW.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-29, 09:19 PM
I didn't say RAW, I said the way I would rule. Common Sense>RAW.6+ seconds isn't enough to open the bag and get in?

monty
2008-10-29, 09:19 PM
I didn't say RAW, I said the way I would rule. Common Sense>RAW.

Common sense says you're paralyzed while falling? Although admittedly I haven't fallen far enough at once to know from personal experience, I don't think that's how it works.

golentan
2008-10-29, 09:47 PM
Is there any reason the Bag didn't do no damage, due to the fact that bag was falling at the same rate as the person? I may be misunderstanding, but heres how I see it: Player A is falling
Player A opens bag
Bag is now falling next to Player A
Player A climbs into bag, is in non-dimensional space
Bag hits ground
Player A is unaffected

Once again, that wasn't the question I answered.


All of which is irrelevant because the question I was trying to answer turned out never to have been asked. I stand by my ruling for the unasked question, but have no clue how to deal with the other.

I was trying to answer the question of what would happen if you jumped into a bag from 150 ft. A bag that was sitting open on the ground below when you jump, that you then fall into. NOT what would happen if you climbed into the bag while falling. You may be right about the latter case but that is completely irrelevant to what I was saying.