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View Full Version : Non-core 3.5 base classes, Pathfinder ready!



thisisaspace
2008-10-28, 01:33 AM
I'm in the middle of working to update some of the non-core 3.5 classes so they match the power levels of some of the later classes and the Pathfinder (http://paizo.com/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG)core classes. My goal is to use them for a campaign I'm building. Obviously there are classes that need minimal change to them, such as stuff from the PHBII and Tome of Battle, but some classes from the older supplements have one or two decent abilities, with the rest being just painful. Some classes such as the samurai could even potentially have their job done better with a fighter. Not to mention hexblades are pointed and laughed at by duskblades on a regular basis.
But to the point, I'll post my modifications to some of the classes on this thread, and I'm hoping the GitP community will provide me with feedbacks, corrections, help with wording, opinions and suggestions. Feel free to suggest the next classes to be updated, too.

Here are what I have so far:
Favored Soul (http://docs.google.com/view?id=dgsxfnsp_5hr8tm6c3)I've based the favored soul's key ability to match the Pathfinder sorcerer's, and possibly even more powerful. The reason is to compete with the cleric's ability of having two domains plus turning which can heal people. I wanted some of the favored soul's powers to focus on their favored weapons, which means i should think about comparing the favored soul to the paladin. But then again i thought the favored soul gets to cast spells, so I haven't thought into that too much. I'm partially tempted to get rid of the favored soul's MAD flaw, but instead i just made the favored soul's powers benefit more from having a high Cha score, so people can benefit from that 19 they had to invest just to cast the spells and not much else. Still a work in progress (well I guess they all are), since i need to do an entry for all the Pathfinder gods. Some gods are rather scarce on info, such as Erastil that i've filled out for a sample (I picked it coz it was he first one on the list).
Hexblade (http://docs.google.com/view?id=dgsxfnsp_6hc8d69gj)the hexblade is boosted up quite a lot, mainly to make this a feasible alternative to the duskblade but without treading on the duskblade's territory. I've compared the new Hexblade with the new Paladin and Ranger, and this is what I came up with. They get their key abilities earlier or can be used more often, and i added UMD to the class skill list, which I'm not sure was appropriate. While the hexblade might be lacking in terms of damage dealing capability (when compared to the duskblade), they should have enough tools in their arsenal to make his enemies face great odds whatever they attempt to do, which is sometimes what a good tank is all about.
Aside for that, I have expanded the hexblade's list of available bonus feats. I've also added a boost to how hex feats will work and created some custom hex feats. One ability I'm quite proud to have invented however, is the Gambler's Fallacy ability. Is the evil rogue trying to tumble you but failed? it'll now have to keep trying until it succeeds. Yeah good luck there with the Curse of Ignorace on you.
Spellthief (http://docs.google.com/view?id=dgsxfnsp_11fnt7g28k)The spellthief is a great class, but I've never heard of anyone using it. Probably because they'd pale in comparison in a fight against anyone but the caster, and casters are proud folks, always hanging out at the back behind a wall of magic or flesh. I've tried to help it along somewhat by giving it something extra with talents similar to how the rogue's have talents, and also the ability to steal spells with dispel magic to get past an annoying wall of force or a pesky summoned monster, not to mention a few tweaks to its old abilities. I've resisted the temptation to give this class something against psionics as well, partly so that Psithief feat would still have business, but mostly because any campaign that's gonna implement a lot of psionics and have a player who wanna play a spellthief would probably have something worked out with the DM anyway.
Swashbuckler (http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgsxfnsp_25dvkz8qcc)This class is popular for dipping but horrendous for anything else, it now has some chancey abilities. It can deal criticals a lot more often, it has synergy with Complete Scoundrel's luck feats, and at high levels it can better use critical feats for save or suck effects. It also has a no save debuff which you might notice is similar to the knight's challange. One of the players in my WLD game is currently taking levels in this class, so hopefully I'll see if letting the high crit chance on one target at a time thing is justifiable for giving it some nice attacks.
Samurai (http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgsxfnsp_18fzc2xscw)There is two versions here. The idea is to make the samurai into a ToB martial class, but for those that want to use these homebrews but don't want to include ToB, I have an alternative that lets the samurai gain a free magic armor that levels up with her, like the soulknife or the kensai. Don't worry, if I ever update the soulknife class, their soul blade will gain a similar progression. For the ToB version, it's similar to warblade, but the school you can use are more restricted in exchange for more maneuvers. Both version also have a ki ability tree which is spendable points that you can use to power attacks. You might notice the ToB disciplines that works best with TWF isn't on the list available to the samurai, that's because flavour wise they are more suited as Ronin disciplines. Yes, the ronin PrC will also get a work over.

Scaboroth
2008-10-28, 01:54 AM
Sweet! I will be eagerly watching this space to see if you can pull together a decent list of "Pathfinder upgrades". I've seen a number of them scattered here and there about several different boards, but never a thorough, consolidated list.
Just to establish some ground rules, which non-core classes are you looking to accept? Just the "complete" classes, or everything?

thisisaspace
2008-10-28, 02:38 AM
Complete classes and possibly PHBII (not that they need much done) are priorities, since these are the books I'm planning on allowing when I run my campaign. I'll allow players to use any published WotC supplements if they just run it by me first.
But yeah, I do want to work on all the official WotC classes. I'm a big fan of the factotum and the artificer.

I've also took a look around for any projects similar to mine. The best I found were a thread on the Paizo pathfinder messageboard just doing a really quick and lazy updates on all the classes (no offense to the creator of that thread, but half of the time he just slapped cantrips/orisons on any spellcasting classes)
If anyone has found any thread that is relevant, feel free to post it here, too. I'll see if there's anythin in there I'd like taking from.

please note that even though I do take the fact this is in essence a project for my homebrew campaign into account when i think about this, I do try as much as possible to make these updates as available to any campaign.

thisisaspace
2009-02-19, 05:44 AM
Spellthief is here! Please, opinions, criticism, fanfare!
Sorry for taking so long, I've been a little busy the past few months.
I'll work on a few more Favored Soul chosen deity abilities in the upcoming days.

If you have any idea which class I should work on next, feel free to mention it. I'm thinking a full arcane class this time would complete the set. In fact, the classes i've done so far would form a pretty nice high magic party, they just need a blaster now.

Mongoose87
2009-08-29, 05:30 PM
At 1st, 3rd, 7th, 13th, and 18th level, a favored soul receives one bonus feat, chosen from a list specific to each deity. Unless otherwise noted, the sorcerer must meet the prerequisites for these bonus feats.

It's gonna be hard to get the sorcerer to cooperate with that, if he doesn't like your character. :smalltongue:

thisisaspace
2009-08-30, 12:42 AM
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

Yeah, I try to copy stuff from books if I can, just so the wording is consistent.

Mongoose87
2009-08-30, 01:22 AM
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

Yeah, I try to copy stuff from books if I can, just so the wording is consistent.

I know where you're coming from. Just leave the poor sorcerer out of it! :smalleek:


:smallbiggrin:

thisisaspace
2009-08-31, 01:13 AM
I know where you're coming from. Just leave the poor sorcerer out of it! :smalleek:


:smallbiggrin:It's fixed :)

The Warmage and Samurai has been mostly finished for some time now, but I feel they still need work and have been putting off finalizing them. Think it's time now.

Frosty
2009-08-31, 02:48 AM
It's fixed :)

The Warmage and Samurai has been mostly finished for some time now, but I feel they still need work and have been putting off finalizing them. Think it's time now.

Can the Samurai be saved? :smallwink:

Francis B
2009-09-06, 10:12 PM
The samurai can be saved, I think I did a pretty decent job on it for one of my players. I created two builds based off of some of the most famous samurai warriors. You can find them here (http://dungeonbrew.blogspot.com/2009/08/samurai-class-for-pathfinder.html).

That having been said, how's the spellthief coming? I have a player who has expressed interest in playing one for my bi-weekly pathfinder game and it would be great if I didn't have to do the conversion myself.

thisisaspace
2009-09-07, 08:08 AM
The spellthief is as ready as it's going to be. I might make some semantic changes in the future, but the rules will remain essentially the same. Look in the first post of the thread for the link.

The samurai is actually ready, but I was going to include the Ronin PrC at the same time. I've also made 2 versions of the updated Samurai, one is to make the samurai a martial initiate class (ToB), but the alternative is for anyone who want to use the update but aren't prepared to include ToB in their campaign, in which case the samurai gains a set of ancestral armor that gains magic enhancements similar to the soulknife's soulblade.

thisisaspace
2010-03-10, 05:24 AM
Updated page to add swashbuckler and samurai to the list. Rejoice.

Warmage is on my harddrive for a long while now, but I still don't think it's quite ready. They've changed the whole thing with wizard school since beta, so I gotta revise that as well. Though the classes I aim to match with warmage are beguiler and dread necromancer.

Lui
2011-04-27, 02:39 PM
The samurai can be saved, I think I did a pretty decent job on it for one of my players. I created two builds based off of some of the most famous samurai warriors. You can find them here (http://dungeonbrew.blogspot.com/2009/08/samurai-class-for-pathfinder.html).

That having been said, how's the spellthief coming? I have a player who has expressed interest in playing one for my bi-weekly pathfinder game and it would be great if I didn't have to do the conversion myself.

man, the spellthief is great. thank you so much. i was just searching the internet for it and imagine my surprise in finding it in this site (which i knew for OOTS). anyway i think it's great and balanced (for pathfinder). me and my master just started trying pathfinder (3.5 veteran players).
i have just one question: one spellthief talent, you say that a ST can choose magic focus as a feat. what's that? SPELL focus maybe? couldn't find. thank you for your time and your work, some of these classes are the best in the game.

thisisaspace
2011-04-28, 11:06 AM
Yes, it's supposed to be Spell Focus. Thanks for pointing that out.
It's good to know my little side project still has some attention. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions, comments, or concerns. I would love to hear how it plays.

Also, a little update. I'm in the process of changing the favored soul conversion into just making oracle mysteries for each of the deity in Pathfinder. My original idea was close to how a oracle works anyway, and this way it would be easier to integrate and balance.

Thugorp
2011-04-29, 01:42 PM
One, quick thing about your Hexblade update. It seems that you forgot the summon familiar ability. I know that a lot of people didn't really like this ability for them(and I am... look warm on the matter myself) but it seems a bit of a major ability to just take out. Pluse, without it, the player can't trade it for the option to gain the shadow panther alternate ability(which I kinda heart...). Maybe just make the panther thing the standard ability instead of Summon familiar, if you don't like the familiar idea for them?

was this an oversight or was there a reason behind it.

thisisaspace
2011-05-01, 05:16 PM
One, quick thing about your Hexblade update. It seems that you forgot the summon familiar ability. I know that a lot of people didn't really like this ability for them(and I am... look warm on the matter myself) but it seems a bit of a major ability to just take out. Pluse, without it, the player can't trade it for the option to gain the shadow panther alternate ability(which I kinda heart...). Maybe just make the panther thing the standard ability instead of Summon familiar, if you don't like the familiar idea for them?

was this an oversight or was there a reason behind it.
Well, yes and no. First, I did remove the familiar that they get at level 4, but in its place is the shadow panther thing as one of the default options. The other being the same arcane bonded magic item that wizards get.
I've given the hexblade more bonus feats, and one of those bonus feats available to them is Obtain Familiar. If they take it as soon as possible they could even get it at level 3, and will still get the shadow panther at level 4.

Lui
2011-05-02, 01:23 PM
well, one more thing about the spellthief. I'd very much like to take prestidigitation with the cantrip talent. it was the first cantrip i thought of, and it seemed quite fitting the character. it's a Universal spell tough, so it's not in the list of schools available to the spellthief (Universal being not so much a School itself). so I wonder, did you left it out on purpose, believing the spell to be inappropriate, or unbalanced or vague in its description, or did it just slip your mind?
what do you think? my DM and I would like to know.
i'll let you know how the spellthief is working anyway. thanks again

Lui
2011-05-21, 09:14 AM
oh and an other one. why isn't Profession in the skill list? is it an error or it's intentional?

thisisaspace
2011-05-22, 08:25 AM
Hi Lui, sorry I didn't respond sooner. I thought I had written back about the Prestidigitation question already. I'm in between computers at the moment so that might be one of the things I didn't actually get to finish before my old computer gave out.

The Prestidigitation spell has always been more of an exclusive trick to sorcerers and wizards (and I think wu jens as well), not even some caster classes such as the beguiler gets it on their list. Personally I see the spell as more like a collection of miscellaneous basic tricks that wizards picked up between the lines while studying their art. It wouldn't be out of line at all to ask your DM to allow it for your character, but I don't think I'll make that change on the page.

Strangely enough, the spellthief in Complete Adventurer doesn't get Profession as a class skill. Whether that was an oversight at WotC, I can't say, but no errata has corrected this. The only other class I know of that doesn't get Profession either is the barbarian. Either way, I left Profession as cross class for the spellthief. My guess is that most spellthieves saw ordinary vocations a horrible waste of their talents.

Luckmann
2011-06-02, 06:28 AM
Wow, this is a truly stellar job, right here. :smallwink:

Have you considered trying your hand at the Duskblade or do you know of a conversion that you'd recommend? :smallsmile:

thisisaspace
2011-06-03, 02:18 AM
Thank you for the kind words.

Why on Earth would I lay a finger on the duskblade? It's perfectly viable even if you go straight duskblade 20, and you can do whatever you want with their feats. In fact, I'd go so far to say it belongs on the same category as the barbarian in that multiclassing or taking a PrC doesn't help you be better at that class.
Though I will say that it lacks a capstone ability at 20, as is most of 3.5 classes. Also, some diversity might be nice but really, it's asking for too much with a class that lets you play a gish so effortlessly. If I ever feel I've gone through most of the necessary ones, I've always planned that I'd put the rest of the classes that didn't need updating all together on the same page and do a mini update for them all. Mostly just to double check their skill lists and whatnot, maybe a small change here or there, and give them some situational capstone ability to top it off.

thisisaspace
2011-06-04, 02:32 AM
As the rogue got some new options in Advanced Player's Guide, and as the spellthief is one of the more complete classes in the list that directly competes with a core class, I thought it might be good to give the spellthief a similar treatment.
Check the bottom of the spellthief page for new spellthief talents and advanced talents. Bear in mind the new talents are on a draft status.

Luckmann
2011-06-11, 04:31 PM
I noticed something, looking at the Spellthief (actually, all of them, when I did a quick check) - it's likely a slight oversight on your part, so I thought I'd mention it.

All your classes gain x4 their base Skill Ranks at lvl 1, but in Pathfinder, no class (afaik) gains extra skill ranks at lvl 1. So the skills ranks of the Spellthief should be 6 + Int modifier per level and that's it. :smallsmile:

Correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps there's a rule saying that you gain 4x your skill points at level 1, but it's at least not listed on individual classes on the PFSRD. (:smalleek:)


Thank you for the kind words.

Why on Earth would I lay a finger on the duskblade? It's perfectly viable even if you go straight duskblade 20, and you can do whatever you want with their feats. In fact, I'd go so far to say it belongs on the same category as the barbarian in that multiclassing or taking a PrC doesn't help you be better at that class.
Though I will say that it lacks a capstone ability at 20, as is most of 3.5 classes. Also, some diversity might be nice but really, it's asking for too much with a class that lets you play a gish so effortlessly. If I ever feel I've gone through most of the necessary ones, I've always planned that I'd put the rest of the classes that didn't need updating all together on the same page and do a mini update for them all. Mostly just to double check their skill lists and whatnot, maybe a small change here or there, and give them some situational capstone ability to top it off.I was mostly thinking of any changes in how PF and 3.5 work, rather than a overhaul of any kind. Anyway, I withdraw the request because the Magus seems to fulfill the role of the Duskblade more than adequately in PF as far as I'm concerned. :smalltongue:

thisisaspace
2011-06-12, 12:25 AM
I noticed something, looking at the Spellthief (actually, all of them, when I did a quick check) - it's likely a slight oversight on your part, so I thought I'd mention it.

All your classes gain x4 their base Skill Ranks at lvl 1, but in Pathfinder, no class (afaik) gains extra skill ranks at lvl 1. So the skills ranks of the Spellthief should be 6 + Int modifier per level and that's it. :smallsmile:

Correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps there's a rule saying that you gain 4x your skill points at level 1, but it's at least not listed on individual classes on the PFSRD. (:smalleek:):
When I started this little project, Pathfinder was still in Beta (possibly even alpha). Back then the changes to skills were still being finalized so I updated what I can. I really hadn't looked at the new rules properly since they released it as I've not had much luck finding a Pathfinder game, but excuses are excuses. I've made a quick change on all the sheets removing all traces of the x4 at 1st level thing. Thanks for pointing it out. :)