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View Full Version : Persistant Image A.K.A. Woe to the CatGirl



olelia
2008-10-28, 02:39 PM
Persistent Image
Illusion (Figment)
Level: Brd 5, Sor/Wiz 5
Duration: 1 min./level (D)

This spell functions like silent image, except that the figment includes visual, auditory, olfactory, and thermal components, and the figment follows a script determined by you. The figment follows that script without your having to concentrate on it. The illusion can include intelligible speech if you wish.
Material Component

A bit of fleece and several grains of sand.

I know before someone mentioned this "tactic" but what happens if you make a persistent image of a miniature sun? What is the thermal equivalent to that. Also, to make it simpler...what would happen if you made an image of chlorine gas since the olfactory component is included?

Blackfang108
2008-10-28, 02:43 PM
I know before someone mentioned this "tactic" but what happens if you make a persistent image of a miniature sun? What is the thermal equivalent to that. Also, to make it simpler...what would happen if you made an image of chlorine gas since the olfactory component is included?

In all honesty, I'd choose Mustard Gas.

shadow_archmagi
2008-10-28, 02:43 PM
I know before someone mentioned this "tactic" but what happens if you make a persistent image of a miniature sun? What is the thermal equivalent to that. Also, to make it simpler...what would happen if you made an image of chlorine gas since the olfactory component is included?

Useful that it doesn't just label it "scent" but "olfactory component" which could mean pretty much anything that goes up your nose.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-28, 02:47 PM
Chlorine gas doesn't affect you with its smell, it affects you by being, you know, toxic. The same goes for any harmful gas. The illusion would smell like them and lack any and all harmful effects.

The sun would, at best, make people feel really hot, but oddly fail to burn anything (which would prompt Will saves to disbelieve it, beyond the one you get when confronted by a strange tiny "sun").

olelia
2008-10-28, 02:47 PM
In all honesty, I'd choose Mustard Gas.
Ya..forgot...chlorine is definitely more of an eye thing :smallfrown: but still... the vagueness...

chiasaur11
2008-10-28, 02:48 PM
Useful that it doesn't just label it "scent" but "olfactory component" which could mean pretty much anything that goes up your nose.

Which kinda makes sense, if I remember chem right, as scent is tiny bits of stuff entering your nose.

The sun would be a good power source or vampire killer, at minimum.

Mark Hall
2008-10-28, 02:48 PM
I know before someone mentioned this "tactic" but what happens if you make a persistent image of a miniature sun? What is the thermal equivalent to that. Also, to make it simpler...what would happen if you made an image of chlorine gas since the olfactory component is included?

Under 3.5 rules, you would feel like you were burning to death, but your lack of actual combustion would clue you in to the fact that you were not, making it easier to disbelieve.

olelia
2008-10-28, 02:49 PM
Figment

A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental impression.) Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the image produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like.

Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly.


Guess I just answered my own question...:smallconfused:...too much reading in this game.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-28, 02:51 PM
The sun would be a good power source or vampire killer, at minimum.

It would be neither, since it's an illusion. That's sort of the point. It's just as functional at those roles as a sun painted on a canvas, or a sun seen in a TV screen.

Ravens_cry
2008-10-28, 02:53 PM
Great way to keep a vampire imprisoned. Inside is the virtual sun. Outside the walls, is several permanent light spells. He can stay and be racked with the pain of death, or he can leave and actually die. His choice.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-28, 02:56 PM
How would that work? Neither the light (or continual light) spells nor the illusory light would have any effect on a vampire (other than to possibly fool one into avoiding the illuminated area for fear of sunlight).

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-28, 03:06 PM
If your persistent image spell included the target(s) in it's area of effect, you could include the illusion of them being burned to death too, I suppose. That way they wouldn't get a chance to save until they noticed that they should have been burned to death and now far beyond the ability to feel the burning heat, but they are still capable of receiving sensory data. If my limited experiences with excruciating agony are any indication that would only be mere seconds, but will probably feel hours or days long.

Talya
2008-10-28, 03:12 PM
Isn't there some PrC that changes (figment) and (glamer) spells to (shadow) spells and thereby adds an element of reality to your illusions?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-10-28, 03:16 PM
Isn't there some PrC that changes (figment) and (glamer) spells to (shadow) spells and thereby adds an element of reality to your illusions?Shadowcraft Mage, it allows you to replicate certain Conj spells and all Evoc spells. Not quite what the OP was talking about.

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-28, 03:19 PM
Isn't there some PrC that changes (figment) and (glamer) spells to (shadow) spells and thereby adds an element of reality to your illusions?

Thou speakest of the Killer Gnome build (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=655556), bane of all spell casters. Yeah, summoning and killing you with miniature suns is something they they would do for fun. But when you have shadow Miracles, the world is your oyster.

shadow_archmagi
2008-10-28, 04:33 PM
Wait a minute.. 120% real? He can cast spells that EXIST HARDER THAN REALITY?!

Not only that, but he can blow an eigth and a first level spell slot to cast two miracles (also more real than real ones?)

Tokiko Mima
2008-10-28, 05:32 PM
Wait a minute.. 120% real? He can cast spells that EXIST HARDER THAN REALITY?!

Not only that, but he can blow an eigth and a first level spell slot to cast two miracles (also more real than real ones?)

Dude, that is so totally meta-dimensional! *puff, puff, pass*

Some of the stuff there requires your DM to be either complicit or easily bribed, but it's pretty solidly RAW. And if you don't abuse it, it's a LOT of fun.

Killer Gnomes: Giving Reality manipulation their 120%. :smallwink:

Aquillion
2008-10-28, 05:42 PM
Wait a minute.. 120% real? He can cast spells that EXIST HARDER THAN REALITY?!

Not only that, but he can blow an eigth and a first level spell slot to cast two miracles (also more real than real ones?)It's not that odd when you think about it. I mean, the whole concept of shadowcraft is odd (you take an illusion and make it partially 'real').

Look at it like this: A really, really good illusionist can make an illusion of a 'Hollywood explosion' -- something that seems more real than reality in many ways. Actual explosions are often less impressive than things from movies. So that shadowcraft gnome is making explosions that are perfect, in ways that an actual evocation never would be. If that illusionist summons an illusionary troll, it is more vicious and nastier than any real-world troll would be.

Now, the illusionary miracle, that one's kinda odd.

chiasaur11
2008-10-28, 05:50 PM
It's not that odd when you think about it. I mean, the whole concept of shadowcraft is odd (you take an illusion and make it partially 'real').

Look at it like this: A really, really good illusionist can make an illusion of a 'Hollywood explosion' -- something that seems more real than reality in many ways. Actual explosions are often less impressive than things from movies. So that shadowcraft gnome is making explosions that are perfect, in ways that an actual evocation never would be. If that illusionist summons an illusionary troll, it is more vicious and nastier than any real-world troll would be.

Now, the illusionary miracle, that one's kinda odd.

Well, in Discworld, DEATH is more real than reality. Maybe it's the same principle.

Sinfire Titan
2008-10-29, 09:06 AM
Thou speakest of the Killer Gnome build (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=655556), bane of all spell casters. Yeah, summoning and killing you with miniature suns is something they they would do for fun. But when you have shadow Miracles, the world is your oyster.

And Echoing Shadow Miracles make DMs cry.

Khanderas
2008-10-29, 09:20 AM
Chlorine gas doesn't affect you with its smell, it affects you by being, you know, toxic. The same goes for any harmful gas. The illusion would smell like them and lack any and all harmful effects.

The sun would, at best, make people feel really hot, but oddly fail to burn anything (which would prompt Will saves to disbelieve it, beyond the one you get when confronted by a strange tiny "sun").
Except skunk smell perhaps ?

Oh and the feeling of hotness that isnt really hot...
Cold snowy mountain, illusion of a cave with a fire (add runes so they "know" it is a magical fire and wont bother about fuel or why it is burning.
Since it is warm they get out of their wet clothes... and freeze to death.
Whoever set the trap loots it once a week or so.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-29, 09:24 AM
That's a good and clever use of thermal illusions, certainly, although there'd be an awful lot of disbelief saves (at least one per toe and finger lost...).

Aquillion
2008-10-30, 04:18 AM
Incursion (http://www.incursion-roguelike.net/), the D20-based roguelike, lets you do that with illusions -- you can use illusionary terrain to cast an illusion of the floor over a lava-pit, then wait for monsters to step into it. Loads of fun.