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Irreverent Fool
2008-10-28, 08:33 PM
The SRD doesn't seem to have any answers for me on the subject, but it says that
The market price of an advanced golem (a golem with more Hit Dice than the typical golem described in each entry) is increased by 5,000 gp for each additional Hit Die, and increased by an additional 50,000 gp if the golemís size increases. The XP cost for creating an advanced golem is equal to 1/25 the advanced golemís market price minus the cost of the special materials required.
Assuming one may build an advanced construct, are the any limits to how far it can be advanced (aside from xp and gold costs)?

The plan here is to build an advanced Tin Golem (Dragon magazine #341). Which has an intelligence score and thus gains feats and skill points as it advanced in HD.
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Pandaren
2008-10-28, 08:36 PM
I believe the limit is the creators HD, or there is no limit, if you have the resources of course.

Iku Rex
2008-10-28, 08:50 PM
The monster entry determines how it can be advanced.

Example: Clay Golem (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#clayGolem)(11 HD default)

Advancement: 12-18 HD (Large); 19-33 HD (Huge)

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-28, 09:33 PM
The monster entry determines how it can be advanced.

Example: Clay Golem (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#clayGolem)(11 HD default)

Advancement: 12-18 HD (Large); 19-33 HD (Huge)

Right but say I'm only the minimum level required to make one. I thought there would be some sort of limit based on character level or caster level or somesuch regarding how far one can be advanced.

So far it seem that resources are the only limiting factor.
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ocato
2008-10-28, 10:36 PM
I believe the limit is the creators HD, or there is no limit, if you have the resources of course.

I've been wondering about this. Other than the fact that many individual constructs have the prerequisite of a certain caster level equal to the hit dice of the construct, are there any all-encompassing rules anywhere that specifically and clearly state the prereqs for making various constructs (including homebrew constructs, effigies, etc)?

I mean, there's a lot of 2x=4, therefore X=2 stuff, but I was wondering if anywhere in any book there was a hard and fast X=2 explanation/ruling.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-10-28, 10:43 PM
A Stone Golem and Greater Stone Golem both require a creator to be at least caster level 14. That would imply that an advanced version of a golem wouldn't have a higher caster level prerequisite than the standard version.

bosssmiley
2008-10-29, 04:19 AM
The SRD doesn't seem to have any answers for me on the subject, but it says that
Assuming one may build an advanced construct, are the any limits to how far it can be advanced (aside from xp and gold costs)?

As Pandaren mentioned, the standard maximum of "3 x base HD" seems about right.

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-29, 04:49 AM
A Stone Golem and Greater Stone Golem both require a creator to be at least caster level 14. That would imply that an advanced version of a golem wouldn't have a higher caster level prerequisite than the standard version.

Ooh, that's an excellent example. Thank you!

So my wizard isn't high enough of a level to build the big nasty golems yet (7th level), but the Tin Golem provides a unique opportunity to create something that can think for itself (and gain feats). Below is a basic version of an 8HD Tin Golem


Advanced Tin Golem, Neutral Large Construct
{table]Hit Dice:|8d10+30 (77 hp)
Initiative:|-1
Speed:|30 feet
Armor Class:|17 (+9 natural, -1 size, -1 dex) touch 8, flat-footed 17
BAB/Grapple:|+6/+16
Attack:|by weapon (+12 hit, +7 damage)
Space/Reach:|10/10
Special Attack:|--
Special Qualit:|Construct traits, craftmanship, low-light vision, magic immunity, proficiency, speech
Saves:|Fort +2, Ref +1, Will +2
Abilities:|Str 24, Dex 8, Con --, Int 5, Wis 11, Cha 1
Skills: |11 points (Class skills are: climb,craft,profession,spot)
Feats:|3 feats
CR:|5~6
Advancement:|4-6 Medium, 7-12 Large[/table]

Craftsmanship (Ex): All tin golems have 6 ranks in any two profession craft skills chosen by their creator. These ranks are in addition to any ranks gained from Hit Dice or class levels. Tin golems do not apply their intelligence penalty to craft checks.

Magic Immunity (Ex): Typical golem immunity. Rusting Grasp affects the creature normally. Any magical attack that deals electricity damage slows the creature for 3 rounds with no saving throw allowed.

Proficiency (Ex): Tin golems are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all shields except tower shields. Tin golems lack the natural slam attacks of other golems.

Speech (Ex): Tin golems are capable of speech though it is halting and monotonous.

8 HD (Advanced) 11 skill points, 3 feats, 2 stat, size increase
Purchase Cost: 81,000g (+400 for body)
Creation Cost: 40,500g (+400 for body), +3,240 XP
Character Cost: 30,375g (+400 for body), +2,430 XP


I'm assuming its two stat gains will go to strength, and that is reflected above. Size increase has also already been calculated. Costs are reduced as the character has the Extraordinary Artisan and Legendary Artisan feats (Eberron), which reduce gold cost and xp cost by 25%, respectively.

I haven't quite decided what to do with its feats yet. The example given in the magazine has skill focus and toughness of all things. Since tin golems are primarily meant (as far as the fluff goes) to be workers, the skill focus isn't bad, but toughness just screams "pick your own feat for this thing, we couldn't be bothered!".

What I'm aiming for here is a halfway decent bodyguard with an intelligence score. (Effigy creatures are wonderful but lack the ability to think for themselves (and I therefore cannot justify having them do anything but the last thing my character told them to do.)) I don't want to advance it further due to further cost increases. What I'm looking for now is suggestions for gear and feats. The character has ranks in most crafts, and the golem will of course be able to help make its own equipment. The craft wondrous item and craft magic arms & armor feats are also available (with the same cost reductions).

On a side note, I notice that a reference is made in the text to Tin Golems gaining class levels. While I don't want to go into that in more depth now, it does open up some interesting opportunities.

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