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Leliel
2008-10-31, 03:03 PM
Well, a thought just occured to me:

Whenever one makes a character in D&D, there is a 99% probability that they posses a varying level of emo-not nesscarily annoying emo, just a bit of emotional angst, such as my own Math ab MacCool-he seems to be a happy, if dodgy, person, but he is also a emotionally repressed depressive.

I was thinking: "What's with all the brooding? Why do people like making tormented heroes?"

lesserarchangel
2008-10-31, 03:04 PM
Why would an emotionally satisfied character go adventuring?

hamishspence
2008-10-31, 03:04 PM
Because Sir Lancelot is more fun than Sir Galahad?

JMobius
2008-10-31, 03:08 PM
Because the particular play group consists of teenagers? :P

None of my groups have ever really had this problem. Thankfully...

ocato
2008-10-31, 03:11 PM
I have to agree, your character needs something to worry about or he seems a little two dimensional. It doesn't have to be a huge slice of the personality pie, but some sort of desire for a better life or longing for things left behind should be present.

I have a character who's a dwarf, achieved the greatest rank possible for him, set up his clan to one day be in line to the throne, and has a wonderful wife and a great kid. He's great at his job and loves what he does. He's off on a whirlwind adventure to save the entire world. He's pretty upbeat too. However, he still misses his wife and family and clan and home terribly. Does he sulk about it? Never. But there's that hint of concern, deep in the back of his head, that he might not make it home. The idea of what that would do to his family is devastating. Does he whine or fear battle? Never. But he doesn't pull punches either. Every troll, evil knight, and sorcerer might kill him, but not if he kills it first. Because he's a dwarf, and it's his duty to make it back to his family.

Swordguy
2008-10-31, 03:16 PM
Why would an emotionally satisfied character go adventuring?

Emphasized for truthiness.

Mark Hall
2008-10-31, 03:16 PM
Because the particular play group consists of teenagers? :P

I keep thinking the same thing...

;-)

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-31, 03:18 PM
Angst is strife. Strife means conflict. Conflict equals story, and story equals role-play. (My maxim for MUSHes is "conflict = roleplay," but they're slightly different from tabletop, after all.)

Well-adjusted characters with no personal problems or difficult histories are, frankly, boring.

"My family? Oh, they're all doing fine. Living in a little village, nice farm, pretty garden. I'm actually an uncle since last year. Me? Oh, I'm well-adjusted and all, I'm just doing this adventuring thing for fun before I settle down. I'm really a journeyman cooper, you know. I've got a gal back home, I go back to see her every month."

That sort of background is just useless from a story perspective - it's screaming for someone to kidnap, kill, maim, or at least inflict amnesia upon any of the people mentioned.

'course, you can get away without having much in the way of background at all, but if you are going to have one, why should it be normal?

And, really, adventurers are basically homeless serial-killer muggers. Which part of that makes it sound like they have uncomplicated backgrounds and no personal problems?


There are characters who are written to wallow in angst and problems and conflict, but that's just bad writing/usage of good ideas and tropes.


Because Sir Lancelot is more fun than Sir Galahad?

You think Galahad woulda been well-adjusted? Hah!


Look at just about any archetypes for adventurers in myth. A good hero is deeply flawed or deeply troubled, and usually tragic. Odysseus. Hercules. Tristram. Lancelot. They're great characters, and their tragedies and problems are the entire point of their stories - because conflict is story. You cannot, in fact, have a meaningful story without some kind of central conflict, tied to the protagonist. (Whether it's external, internal, or both, is not that important.)

AmberVael
2008-10-31, 03:18 PM
You kidding me? There's like, only one or two characters that I've really played that have had an angsty past. Or continually angsty present.

Let me go through my character list right now and their adventuring reasons:

I have one character who went through an insane evolution and is now attempting to take over the world in a Magneto-like scheme because she believes she is superior to humanity. Unlike Magneto, she has few morals and her past doesn't involve nazis.

I have a warlock who is the avatar of a nasty nature spirit. Extremely animal-like and cruel. A fatalist to the core. No angst for him. He will, however, eat you if he's hungry. Crazy cannibal.

Ray Brasche, a telepath in a futuristic setting with a somewhat frail body. She's the captain of the ship Sophronia, and has no tolerance for disrespect or laziness. She trained in a military school at a young age and has had little to no contact with her family, but doesn't really care. She's not angsty, just tough and hard, like any good soldier should be.

Sibyl, a descendant of the eladrin who is extremely cheerful and works with all kinds of colorful magics. Unfortunately, she's pretty ineffective in her game due to her spell choice working pathetically against undead (which are the main opponents). She'll cry, but only with things brought up in the game. Her past is of mischief, wanderlust, and sheer impulse. No angst there either.

...I can keep going through six more characters or so, but I think I've made my point. I'm not a holder of the angst. It can be a valid character motivation, but I don't see it being a running theme among my characters- or the characters of my friends, really.

Laurellien
2008-10-31, 03:19 PM
Because otherwise a character is just a statblock.

From
Not EE

Arbitrarity
2008-10-31, 03:19 PM
My bard developed angst from gameplay. While off adventuring, his hometown is assaulted and his father killed.

Then, when meteors are landing, and he notices a few going north, in the general direction of his hometown, does he suspect?
Nah, too improbable.
Oh look, there goes your other parent, despite that someone in the party had teleport. :smallmad:

Yeah, characters who worry about nothing at all are weird, and they'll probably develop some sort of issue by the end of the game. Also, without some sort of fear, even one that is previously unknown, characters can seem unrealistic (zombies? fine. Elder gods? Fine. Dragons? No sweat).

Of course, you also get silliness, like my bard's phobia of rope. It made things rather amusing when you get to an elven village... (AHH! ROPE LADDERS! THEY WANT TO EAT ME!) :smallbiggrin:

arguskos
2008-10-31, 03:23 PM
I have one character who went through an insane evolution and is now attempting to take over the world in a Magneto-like scheme because she believes she is superior to humanity. Unlike Magneto, she has few morals and her past doesn't involve nazis.
Awwww... no Nazi's? You make me sad. :smalltongue:

Anyways, angst can be a great motivation, though I think Vael made the good point that it isn't the only one, nor even the best. Just a common one.

-argus

CabbageTheif
2008-10-31, 03:31 PM
it is an easy way to have good roleplaying by yourself. if you are in a mixed group that does not want to roleplay, then you cannot be serious and expect their characters to play off of it. imagine when elan was all serious because roy took an arrow for him. if you are angsty, you can have the satisfaction of roleplaying in your own imagination corner of the room but not drag the other smash-the-door characters into it.

for myself, i think that an emotionally healthy and stable person would go adventuring, but his motivation may be wealth or glory rather than finding himself or wanting to get out of the culture they once came from. and there are roleplaying benefits to a person who is emotionally fine; my dragonborn paladin knows that the big picture is to do bahamutte's will, but the way to do it is not always the sword; i get involved in philosophical debates with npc's about how to better the country.

i think you and your party may just be in a rut.

mostlyharmful
2008-10-31, 03:34 PM
Why would an emotionally satisfied character go adventuring?

You gotta do what you gotta do. (http://www.goblinscomic.com/d/20061223.html)

Captain Six
2008-10-31, 03:39 PM
I don't know where that 99% came from... :smallconfused: Yes I have characters with problems but only one ever whined about them. And I haven't seen angst in anyone else I've played with.

The closest to angst I've had was when my Wu Jen responded badly to the first person he killed in game. I had to go a few days without getting spells due to restless, nightmare filled sleep and gave anyone who'd listen an earful of what it's like to kill a man while looking into their confused, shocked and pained eyes. (it was a very high RP game so don't think I was stopping the game for this) The character was 19, a college student who put his own personal flair on wizardry and dropped out to explore his own new brand of magic. I mostly had him react like this to emphasize that apart from being magical he's pretty much an ordinary guy currently with a crowd of war vets. I also did it because even though I play D&D for escapism the sheer apathy I've had towards taking enemy life was getting to me. I wanted to have a character who was very concerned about killing, no vows of non-violence or anything but someone who would at least think three time before ending a life. Thankfully being a mage it's easy to ignore an enemy and just focus on making your allies better.

Morty
2008-10-31, 03:39 PM
None of the characters in my party has got an angsty background. No character I've seen played had such backstory. So I'm afraid I fail to see your point.

Ravyn
2008-10-31, 03:40 PM
The issue for me isn't angst for character development, just angst for angst's own sake. I riffed on it a while back (http://exchangeofrealities.today.com/2008/09/09/keeping-angst-in-check/).

The point at which I start griping about character angst is usually the point at which it becomes a character schtick to the exclusion of just about everything else. I've played with, and as, some pretty messed-up characters, partly to justify worldviews and partly because I wanted part of the character arc to be seeing how exactly they'd deal with it. But what made it work was the fact that most of the angst was kept decently under wraps; it came out in ways that didn't break the flow of the plot, and didn't tend to derail it into one person's adventure.

hamishspence
2008-10-31, 03:48 PM
I think TV Tropes calls overindulgence in it Wangst.

Irreverent Fool
2008-10-31, 04:04 PM
We don't usually have a lot of this in my gaming group. Most of us go for more 'classic' characters. I'd blame it on our age group, but we were more or less into the same types of characters when we were younger as well, just a little sillier. Just blame the style of the times, I guess.

Once in awhile, angsty characters are fine. Look at the Lord of the Rings for crying out loud (but if you're looking at the movie ignore Frodo and Sam please.)

Ultimately, it's the kind of characters your players want to play. A useful exercise for this sort of thing (assuming your players are interested in roleplaying and not projection) is for everyone to create this kind of character they would never play (or are the polar opposite of their usual character). As an example, I have an irrational hatred of elves. Perhaps it's the whole 'elves are better' thing. I also never cared much for playing sorcerers (or full casters in general). So I played an elven sorcerer. The game ended up being our group's longest-running to date, and I must say that Tangle is now one of my favorite characters. I still don't care much for elves in general, but getting into the mentality of an elf and coming up with a backstory that made sense (none of this 'raised by humans' BS. Seriously, shoot that down right away. It's just laziness 99% of the time) was a great learning experience and a lot of fun.

I'm about ready to force this on our guy who's played about 10 halfling rogues.
obnoxious
sig

Prometheus
2008-10-31, 04:12 PM
Because people don't know how to RP. RP means deep, deep means angsty.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-10-31, 04:26 PM
We don't usually have a lot of this in my gaming group. Most of us go for more 'classic' characters.

argggrhh

Odysseus! Lancelot! Hercules!

Hercules is probably the worst, in fact. "Woe is me! My dad is the overgod and I'm a super-powerful invincible demigod - but my life is so hard! My dad's wife has a real hate-on for me, and made me insane so I killed my wife and children! Oh, and this one time I got drunk and totally accidentally slew all these centaurs who were my friends..."

Cybren
2008-10-31, 04:32 PM
How about Gilgamesh? It's kind of hard to read the stuff that he goes through

Grey Paladin
2008-10-31, 04:36 PM
Why would an emotionally satisfied character go adventuring?

++; for great justice- only a madman or a zealot would risk everything in such a way and not develop any new mental problems from living a life as a paranoid mass murderer for hire/great justice.

Tengu_temp
2008-10-31, 04:44 PM
Why would an emotionally satisfied character go adventuring?

Because they are searching for something.
Because they want to help people.
Because adventure calls them.
For the glory of their deity/lord.

And that's just several examples. I am currently participating in four games (two as a DM, two as a player), and while some characters have lost family members or had other unhappy things happen to them in the past, there is only one who has tendencies to go emo from time to time - and since she is a major Woobie, and suffering is an important part of being one, it's understandable. All my current characters, and most of my previous one, can be described as "energetic, upbeat and optimistic".

Angsting is the easiest way to give a character some depth. And, as usual, easiest often means the least satisifying.

Swordguy
2008-10-31, 04:46 PM
Because they are searching for something.
Because they want to help people.
Because adventure calls them.
For the glory of their deity/lord.


I can make a pretty strong argument that the first three examples there are, in fact, indicative of emotional dissatisfaction (even if suppressed). Especially the first and third ones.

Tengu_temp
2008-10-31, 04:48 PM
Possibly. But emotional dissatisfaction != angsting.

EvilElitest
2008-10-31, 04:50 PM
i have to second Tengu on all counts there, angst is easy, but i don't like it very much. I like to avert angst sterotypes most of the time, like playing an immortal (like from highlander) who was extremly happy he lived for ever and took advantage of it. The closest i got to angst was playing a forsakeon
from
EE

Swordguy
2008-10-31, 04:51 PM
Possibly. But emotional dissatisfaction != angsting.


Why would an emotionally satisfied character go adventuring?

I'm sorry (sincerely, not sarcastically like normal) - I thought we were discussing emotional dissatisfaction, since that's what you quoted in your post.

I do concede that emotional dissatisfaction =/= angsting though.

Grey Paladin
2008-10-31, 04:58 PM
No matter how vile we think ourselves or how just the cause is-
we are human.

I am not claiming things have to descend to Wangst or that the angst should not be entirely internal, but to me a Hero's personal/emotional journey is just as interesting, difficult, and satisfying as their epic physical quest- and that no (non mentally-ill) human will be perfectly fine after taking the lives of so many others and constantly living under paranoia and fear of monsters.

Angsting (whether others can see how you feel or not) is bad- not doing so is worse for you have already lost and became no better than one of the countless monsters you have slain- no longer feeling sorrow when killing your kin.

Calinero
2008-10-31, 04:58 PM
I've run into more problems with myself playing Angst than with other players in my group--to be honest, I'd welcome some more roleplaying from them of any kind, even if it was angst.

As for me, I sometimes have trouble finding the appropriate amount of angst. For example, I had a priest who was alcoholic and the majority of his congregation most likely got turned into zombies. How messed up should he be? What about my dentist who may have accidentally killed a few little girls? It gets tricky sometimes.

(note: most of that stuff happened in game, but not all._

Dyvim Matt
2008-10-31, 05:04 PM
I have to join the "haven't seen too much angst" club for just about every game I played or GMed, from ADnD back in high school, through Shadowrun, Call of Cthulhu, Mage: The Ascension (my current favorite) and even (gasp!!!) Vampire: the Masquerade. (In the case of Vampire, I only GMed Sabbat campaigns, so the characters were expected to "enjoy" being vampires.)

I think many people enjoy sort-of-anti-heroes, with dark pasts and darker secrets. Some people may want to roleplay a "tortured soul" because they think it's cooler than just a farmer who decided to get rich quickly by hitting the road, or a knight out to make a name for himself, or a wizard looking for spell components, etc. These are characters who are adventuring to get some sort of job done, and that's it. No inner suffering or anything. However, whether they realize it or not, some players of angsty PCs can end up hugging the spotlight because they overdo it.

Tsotha-Lanti mentioned that well-adjusted characters were begging for a disaster to occur. As a GM, I would jump on such an opportunity. My players expect me to do so. Bwahaha! :smallwink:

Tengu_temp
2008-10-31, 05:08 PM
I'm sorry (sincerely, not sarcastically like normal) - I thought we were discussing emotional dissatisfaction, since that's what you quoted in your post.

I do concede that emotional dissatisfaction =/= angsting though.

Well, if we're talking about emotional satisfaction, there would be examples of characters who are completely happy and content with their lives, and continue adventuring regardless. A wanderer who travels through the land and helps people, just because this is the right thing to do, would be a good example.

Innis Cabal
2008-10-31, 05:12 PM
Well, a thought just occured to me:

Whenever one makes a character in D&D, there is a 99% probability that they posses a varying level of emo-not nesscarily annoying emo, just a bit of emotional angst, such as my own Math ab MacCool-he seems to be a happy, if dodgy, person, but he is also a emotionally repressed depressive.

I was thinking: "What's with all the brooding? Why do people like making tormented heroes?"

Because no single living person is free of problems, and there are some of us who prefer to RP more realisticly.

Tengu_temp
2008-10-31, 05:14 PM
Because no single living person is free of problems, and there are some of us who prefer to RP more realisticly.

So non-angsty people are not realistic?

Swordguy
2008-10-31, 05:17 PM
So non-angsty people are not realistic?

Mistaking "angst" for "problems". Non-angsty people are realistic. People without problems aren't.

I think a generally-agreed-upon definition of "angst" is in order here.

Tengu_temp
2008-10-31, 05:19 PM
Mistaking "angst" for "problems". Non-angsty people are realistic. People without problems aren't.

I think a generally-agreed-upon definition of "angst" is in order here.

I was referring to the assumption Innis Cabal was making, that apparently angsty characters are more realistic than non-angsty ones. If there is someone mistaking angst for problems here, that ain't me.

Innis Cabal
2008-10-31, 05:19 PM
So non-angsty people are not realistic?

Just using the words they want to use for peoblems.

People without problems are not realistic.

Yukitsu
2008-10-31, 05:21 PM
Why would an emotionally satisfied character go adventuring?

Psychosis was my excuse.

Tengu_temp
2008-10-31, 05:21 PM
Having problems doesn't mean you have to angst over them. You could, y'know, try to fix them instead.

Innis Cabal
2008-10-31, 05:21 PM
Or you know, some people might be adventuring for that very reason?

Grey Paladin
2008-10-31, 05:22 PM
My definition: Depression/Hysteria/Mania/Heavy emotional backlash

A person who lives as a murderer for hire and feels no regret/experiences no emotional backlash is a monster and likely a psychopath, dehumanizing his foes.

Swordguy
2008-10-31, 05:23 PM
I was referring to the assumption Innis Cabal was making, that apparently angsty characters are more realistic than non-angsty ones. If there is someone mistaking angst for problems here, that ain't me.

But he didn't say that angsty characters are more realistic then non-angsty ones. He said "no single living person is free of problems".

EvilElitest
2008-10-31, 05:23 PM
people shouldn't mix up Angst with issues. Angst is just when people get whinning and annoying with their issues. Wangst is when their issues are minor petty things to begin with
from
EE

Innis Cabal
2008-10-31, 05:23 PM
My definition: Depression/Hysteria/Mania/Heavy emotional backlash

A person who lives as a murderer for hire and feels no regret/experiences no emotional backlash is a monster and likely a psychopath, dehumanizing his foes.

Not that playing that isn't fun either mind you

Tengu_temp
2008-10-31, 05:27 PM
But he didn't say that angsty characters are more realistic then non-angsty ones. He said "no single living person is free of problems".

Well, why mention something not related to angst in a discussion about angst, then? If you say "there are some of us who prefer to RP more realisticly" in a thread about angst, it's easy to assume that what you mean is that angsty = more realistic.

EvilElitest
2008-10-31, 05:27 PM
Well, why mention something not related to angst in a discussion about angst, then? If you say "there are some of us who prefer to RP more realisticly" in a thread about angst, it's easy to assume that what you mean is that angsty = more realistic.

when by definition, angsty =more annoying
from
EE

Yukitsu
2008-10-31, 05:29 PM
Having problems doesn't mean you have to angst over them. You could, y'know, try to fix them instead.

I mean he was completely satisfied with life, but was nuts so adventured anyway. (where he was also completely satisfied with life.)

Swordguy
2008-10-31, 05:33 PM
Well, why mention something not related to angst in a discussion about angst, then? If you say "there are some of us who prefer to RP more realisticly" in a thread about angst, it's easy to assume that what you mean is that angsty = more realistic.

It IS related - the problems/issues which he mentions are the source of said angst. Angst is a reaction to said issues, and those issues can be reacted to in several different ways.

Unfortunately, in keeping with the extreme reactions people have (far left/far right sort of thing, y'know?), the way to "not be angsty" tends to involve playing a "perfect" character with no internal issues or demons - which is equally as unrealistic as Deathblade Doombringer Bloodshadow, the orphaned vampiric heir to a lost kingdom and who is continually struggling with his own sexuality in the face of thousands of years of the oppression of his people.

SOME angst is perfectly natural - otherwise "Don't Worry, Be Happy" would have never caught on like it did. People DO have issues, and they DO brood on them sometimes. It's only when the RP goes to one of the extremes that stupidity starts.

Innis Cabal
2008-10-31, 05:33 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/angst

There you go Swordguy. The actual definition :smallwink:

I'd say, there is no single being without even the slightest bit of angst in their life. If they are....they are blessed and in denial.

There is of course the other use for the word, which isn't the actual definition, and was made popular by Catcher in the Rye which I think they are all refering to. In which case, I am not arguing for or against it.

WitchSlayer
2008-10-31, 06:34 PM
Why would an emotionally satisfied person go adventuring? The same reason Superman goes out to save people every day: He has the strength and the means to save people, and he has the will and the morals to want to. Sure there is a lot he could be angsty about (MY PLANET IS DEEEAAAAD) but then he'd just be Superbatman, and that wouldn't be fun. That's not to say Superman doesn't have problems, of course he does! Everyone does! But they're not his reason for going out and doing what he does every day.

Kurald Galain
2008-10-31, 06:35 PM
Because Sir Lancelot is more fun than Sir Galahad?

What about Sir Robin?

Doomsy
2008-10-31, 06:40 PM
Well, a thought just occured to me:

Whenever one makes a character in D&D, there is a 99% probability that they posses a varying level of emo-not nesscarily annoying emo, just a bit of emotional angst, such as my own Math ab MacCool-he seems to be a happy, if dodgy, person, but he is also a emotionally repressed depressive.

I was thinking: "What's with all the brooding? Why do people like making tormented heroes?"

Because mentally balanced and emotionally stable people tend to consider a career in home invasion of extremely hostile monsters in exchange for an equal share of the gains with an extremely high risk of death, maiming, or worse a poor lifestyle choice.

Adventuring is a career that, to steal a line, you have to be a little f'd up to really be good at. Sane people realize the dangers and stop.

Adventurers see the danger and scream, "FOR FUN!" while hitting the gas and making hyperspace WHOOSH noises.

People would probably try to take their weapons save for what they know what happens if you do that. Personally, I would not be surprised if most high fantasy cities and towns just made up quests to keep the crazy little SOBs from burning down the place. Keep 'em busy and all.

horseboy
2008-10-31, 07:38 PM
People would probably try to take their weapons save for what they know what happens if you do that. Personally, I would not be surprised if most high fantasy cities and towns just made up quests to keep the crazy little SOBs from burning down the place. Keep 'em busy and all.
I loled! :smallbiggrin:

Starbuck_II
2008-10-31, 07:51 PM
Why would an emotionally satisfied person go adventuring? The same reason Superman goes out to save people every day: He has the strength and the means to save people, and he has the will and the morals to want to. Sure there is a lot he could be angsty about (MY PLANET IS DEEEAAAAD) but then he'd just be Superbatman, and that wouldn't be fun. That's not to say Superman doesn't have problems, of course he does! Everyone does! But they're not his reason for going out and doing what he does every day.

That was redone in Smallville; he has so much angst I think ghe is becoming Superbatman.

I mean the episode before last where he blamed himself for others dying when he wasn't there. It isn't like he can see the future (not yet anyway if the show follows the comics).

Innis Cabal
2008-10-31, 07:58 PM
Why would an emotionally satisfied person go adventuring? The same reason Superman goes out to save people every day: He has the strength and the means to save people, and he has the will and the morals to want to. Sure there is a lot he could be angsty about (MY PLANET IS DEEEAAAAD) but then he'd just be Superbatman, and that wouldn't be fun. That's not to say Superman doesn't have problems, of course he does! Everyone does! But they're not his reason for going out and doing what he does every day.

He has motivation. That means he isn't emotionally satisfied. He desires to aid people, maybe not for -his- emotional benifit, but for the benifit of others. He -WANTS- to help, and that means, somewhere...deep in his mind or soul he feels he is lacking something.

Otherwise he wouldn't bother helping them. If you don't care enough to help someone, you don't.

Piedmon_Sama
2008-10-31, 10:14 PM
I'm really glad my group is all made of "aspiring" writers because it generally means we have characters who are more awesome in conception than "an orc killed my dad, and now I'm gunning for him!*"

Not necessarily more well thought out, but more awesome, always.

*I think this phrase actually first appeared in an issue of Knights of the Dinner Table way back, and the group I played in as a teenager adopted it as code for "I was too lazy to think of a backstory/this backstory is retarded."

Kris Strife
2008-10-31, 10:35 PM
I blame Batman and the new Spiderman movies. (Seriously, even ZOMBIE Spiderman made jokes, but not movie Spidey >.<)
Any ways, what about the 'I'm bored and have a sword/magic powers/I know Kung-Fu, I'm gonna go kill something' adventurer, or the 'I wanna see the world/I don't wanna be a fishmonger/I wanna be a knight/I wanna be rich' adventurers? no angst in those!

Dyvim Matt
2008-11-01, 12:08 AM
I second Kris Strife, although I disagree with Zombie Spiderman not being (albeit just a little bit) a total emo.

http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article68.htm

Exhibit A is halfway through the page.

The Glyphstone
2008-11-01, 12:11 AM
I remember playing a short one-shot adventure where the four players were all siblings, out to find an anniversary gift for their high-level adventurer parents.

Kris Strife
2008-11-01, 12:23 AM
I second Kris Strife, although I disagree with Zombie Spiderman not being (albeit just a little bit) a total emo.

http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article68.htm

Exhibit A is halfway through the page.

Hes a zombie and still less emo than the movie Spidey. At least he still tells jokes. I think having a sense of humor and being an emo are like being a vampire in WoD and not owning a black trenchcoat.

WinterSolstice
2008-11-01, 01:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0TOV-qaINg

hehe, read through the thread and this crossed my mind

Knaight
2008-11-01, 09:26 AM
Coming back to angst, it makes sense in certain situations, such as after a huge failure on the part of the characters, perceived or real, as everybody does have problems, and some of them always manage to avoid being solved, which is very frustrating. Its just when people are being perpetually angsty for no good reason that its irritating, as the super happy guy is just as if not more annoying. The only real exception to this is in comic campaigns, where you have both and they serve as each others foils, but you have to have other stuff too just to make it funny. For instance a monk who can only talk in proverbs(yes my player has this character) is a much more interesting, if silly character than the depressed guy, since you have more to go off of.

Starbuck_II
2008-11-01, 09:52 AM
Man, watching Youtube's FF7 Crisis Core videos: Zack was badass and not emo like Cloud...why couldn't get get that character to play in FF7?

LCR
2008-11-01, 09:57 AM
Because Sir Lancelot is more fun than Sir Galahad?

Go on, say that to Michael Palin's face.

hamishspence
2008-11-01, 10:01 AM
I mean, in the originl mythos, Galahad was uber pure- perfect knight, and, in short, a little boring. On plus side, had "irregularity" of his birth. Galahad The Bastard?

The only historical character I can think of who went by the name "The Bastard" was William of Normandy.

Jayabalard
2008-11-01, 10:27 AM
I'm sorry (sincerely, not sarcastically like normal) - I thought we were discussing emotional dissatisfaction, since that's what you quoted in your post.That's not really the full context.


I was thinking: "What's with all the brooding? Why do people like making tormented heroes?"
Why would an emotionally satisfied character go adventuring?lsserarchangel is not just talking about emotional disatisfaction, but the full out waangst that the OP is talking about.

hamishspence
2008-11-01, 10:35 AM
Especially when, to outsiders, character is Cursed with Awesome. Angsting over it irritates them.

horseboy
2008-11-01, 11:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0TOV-qaINg

hehe, read through the thread and this crossed my mind

That's a good one. I was going to go with ye old standby. (http://www.thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=248)

Once I did have a character that was painfully genre savvy so in order to save his home he ostracized it. Since, as a hero that meant it was going to be burnt to the ground (even though it was underwater) as a pointed parody of this.

toddex
2008-11-01, 11:28 AM
Because Sir Lancelot is more fun than Sir Galahad?

http://www.videogamecritic.net/images/snes/knights_of_the_round.gif

Id say perceval is by far the coolest to roleplay

hamishspence
2008-11-01, 11:36 AM
yes, in Rivan Codex David Eddings states he specficially intended his hero Garion, initially, to be a Percival type unaware of heritage "Sir Dumb"

Eddings was not entirely good at originality, but passable at reinventing.

That pic looks good- is it from old PC game?

toddex
2008-11-01, 12:08 PM
yes, in Rivan Codex David Eddings states he specficially intended his hero Garion, initially, to be a Percival type unaware of heritage "Sir Dumb"

Eddings was not entirely good at originality, but passable at reinventing.

That pic looks good- is it from old PC game?

Its from the old Capcom beat em up. KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND! For Arcade and SNES.

Ascension
2008-11-01, 12:31 PM
My characters have run the whole gamut of emoness. I've played almost everything between these two extremes.

-Velkin (the first): His mother and wife died from debilitating illnesses. He had an epiphany about the inevitability of death and attempted to join the Doomguard. He also had a history of desertion and a great deal of guilt about being the only one to survive after he abandoned his last adventuring party. Very emo.

-Giacomo Giovanni: Fun-loving sorcerer whose motivations and backstory were never quite made clear. He sure loved his snazzy red robes and prestidigitating anything and everything into cheerfully bright colors, though. His father even died during the campaign, but he took it in stride. Not at all emo.

Wulfram
2008-11-01, 12:33 PM
Because there is the expectation that peoples characters should have a back story, and people want something vaguely interesting to put in it. Since level 1 characters, by definition, can't have done much, this tends to result in people's parents being killed to avoid complete boredom.

Leliel
2008-11-01, 12:46 PM
Yeah, I try to keep my angsty characters mild: Math, fot example, may have had a rather unhappy life-being prophsised to bring doom to the world does that-but he hides it pretty well under the veneer of a snarky, but kind man who enjoys life to the full-there's no reason to live if one does not know how to like it's small pleasures. Plus, I plan for him to get better.

Kris Strife
2008-11-01, 05:13 PM
Man, watching Youtube's FF7 Crisis Core videos: Zack was badass and not emo like Cloud...why couldn't get get that character to play in FF7?

I wouldnt call Cloud emo. Emo is being angsty and depressed for no reason. I think having your home town burnt down by the worlds greatest hero, who then stabs your childhood sweet heart, beats up your best friend before stabbing you in the gut, then getting mind raped and having your memories messed with is a good reason for angst

kbk
2008-11-01, 06:08 PM
Well, a thought just occured to me:

Whenever one makes a character in D&D, there is a 99% probability that they posses a varying level of emo-not nesscarily annoying emo, just a bit of emotional angst, such as my own Math ab MacCool-he seems to be a happy, if dodgy, person, but he is also a emotionally repressed depressive.

I was thinking: "What's with all the brooding? Why do people like making tormented heroes?"

Drama.



10 characters.

Tengu_temp
2008-11-01, 06:47 PM
-Giacomo Giovanni: Fun-loving sorcerer whose motivations and backstory were never quite made clear. He sure loved his snazzy red robes and prestidigitating anything and everything into cheerfully bright colors, though. His father even died during the campaign, but he took it in stride. Not at all emo.

Hey! You're supposed to be overcoming the world with angst, and you come up with characters like this? Fo'shame.


I wouldnt call Cloud emo. Emo is being angsty and depressed for no reason. I think having your home town burnt down by the worlds greatest hero, who then stabs your childhood sweet heart, beats up your best friend before stabbing you in the gut, then getting mind raped and having your memories messed with is a good reason for angst

I agree - and on top of that, the only time Cloud got really angsty was when he thought he's just a clone of Sephiroth, and he got much better after that. And before that he was more goofy in the "try to be cool and fail horribly" way than anything.
90% of people who claim that Cloud is emo haven't played the game and are mixing him with Squall or only watched Advent Children.

Kris Strife
2008-11-01, 07:10 PM
Yes, and even in Advent Children, Cloud had a reason to be angsty: survivors guilt and having a mysterious and deadly disease. I actually blame Squall for the emo craze any ways. 100 gp says if he took the jacket off, his wrists would have scars across them.

Starbuck_II
2008-11-01, 07:46 PM
I wouldnt call Cloud emo. Emo is being angsty and depressed for no reason. I think having your home town burnt down by the worlds greatest hero, who then stabs your childhood sweet heart, beats up your best friend before stabbing you in the gut, then getting mind raped and having your memories messed with is a good reason for angst

True but he was mildly emo in Advent Children.
Zack was cool without trying too hard.
He took down hundreds of shinra Soldiers before finally dying from gunshot wounds in same battle.
He beat 2 1st class Soldiers Angeal and Genesis (Both were equal to Sephiroth in power).

Knaight
2008-11-01, 09:10 PM
Yeah, but power doesn't make cool. Style can with power for bit characters, but for major characters its about the personality, although style is pretty helpful when they need to break out the badass.

StoryKeeper
2008-11-01, 10:46 PM
Because my group constantly leans toward chaos or evil, and angsty characters usually make more sense for evil personalities than ones who grew up with white picket fences and puppies that greeted them every day after private school.

WitchSlayer
2008-11-01, 10:51 PM
Because my group constantly leans toward chaos or evil, and angsty characters usually make more sense for evil personalities than ones who grew up with white picket fences and puppies that greeted them every day after private school.

But if you are good at creating a back story, a horribly evil person who grew up like that can be very... Interesting?

Kris Strife
2008-11-01, 11:43 PM
But if you are good at creating a back story, a horribly evil person who grew up like that can be very... Interesting?

the 1980s hollywood corporite executive?
a lawyer who really is a devils advocate?
a highschool sports star determined to regain his glory days?
That annoying yuppie/preppie kid from high school? you know which one I'm talking about.

Ascension
2008-11-02, 01:21 AM
Hey! You're supposed to be overcoming the world with angst, and you come up with characters like this? Fo'shame.

Err, think of it as my Angelic Days. Except better.


Because my group constantly leans toward chaos or evil, and angsty characters usually make more sense for evil personalities than ones who grew up with white picket fences and puppies that greeted them every day after private school.

I actually prefer to shy away from the tragic-backstory-excuse characters when playing Evil. A good old-fashioned purposeless sadist can often be much more frightening.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-11-02, 01:42 AM
Hm. All of my current characters have either self-loathing angst, at least one dead parent, abandonment issues, or all three. Even the really chipper one has a dead mom.

I should stop designing characters late at night when pissed at the world and my schoolwork.