PDA

View Full Version : [3.5e] Mounts For Tiny Characters



Fax Celestis
2008-11-03, 04:57 PM
I've got a hankering to play another weird character--this one a tiny creature mounted on a small creature.

What are some good options for mounts, preferably creatures I could obtain with an animal companion, the Wild Cohort feat, and potentially the Monstrous Animal Companion feat? I'd like to stay away from PrCs here as that's more resources than I really want to spend, and I'd like it to be accessible around ECL 5. Trainable mounts are an option, but they tend to be really fragile so I'd like to stay away from that. Also, flight or other forms of increased mobility are desired.

Keld Denar
2008-11-03, 05:04 PM
Something like a normal hawk, eagle, or owl? They fly, and you could do diving charges with sick multipliers :)

Ground based, I dunno, can a Halfling serve as a mount ;)

Maybe something like a Shocker Lizard, if you picked up some kind of electricity resistance, or polymorphed yourself into a tiny Shambling Mound...

Blink Dogs are small sized, right? Them or Hell Hounds or Krenshar's or any of those others, of course, they are magical beasts....

I'm just throwing out ideas, anything fit your fancy?

Fax Celestis
2008-11-03, 05:08 PM
I was thinking an Eagle. It's small, and it flies and can be gained as an animal companion with no adjust. I was also looking at the Serval from Sandstorm--it's a cat obtainable with no adjust, has pounce and improved grab (for its rake), and is small size.

What I'd really like is a tressym, but they're Tiny. Too small.

wadledo
2008-11-03, 05:12 PM
What race are you going as?:smallconfused:

Siegel
2008-11-03, 05:14 PM
Housecat :) or Housecat Wizard

xPANCAKEx
2008-11-03, 05:18 PM
ride on the shoulders of a large, strong, but stupid NPC

call yourselves masterblaster

Fax Celestis
2008-11-03, 05:20 PM
What race are you going as?:smallconfused:

I was thinking an awakened squirrel. I'll get to use gear and everything, since squirrels have opposable thumbs.
Housecat :) or Housecat Wizard

Believe it or not, cats are Tiny. No good.

Keld Denar
2008-11-03, 05:22 PM
Paragon Housecat of Legend?

Commense worship thread!

FinalJustice
2008-11-03, 05:40 PM
Snuggles? He would not allow such nonsense. At least, not without lots of worship, catnip, salmon and destruction along the course of the adventure.

Whisper Gnome Beguiler/Shadowcraft Mage?... What?

SurlySeraph
2008-11-03, 05:55 PM
What I'd really like is a tressym, but they're Tiny. Too small.

Well, you could get Permanencied Reduce Person on yourself. That'd make it work. Alternately, use Permanencied Animal Growth on the tressym.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-03, 05:59 PM
Well, you could get Permanencied Reduce Person on yourself. That'd make it work. Alternately, use Permanencied Animal Growth on the tressym.

No go either way. Awakened squirrels are Magical Beasts, as are tressym. That makes them invalid targets for those spells.

Triaxx
2008-11-03, 06:01 PM
I think he meant as your race. Why not a halfling golem with a cat on it's shoulder? Lead the players to believe the halfling is your character.

Irreverent Fool
2008-11-03, 06:10 PM
I think he meant as your race. Why not a halfling golem with a cat on it's shoulder? Lead the players to believe the halfling is your character.

obnoxious
sig
An awakened halfling effigy.

TengYt
2008-11-03, 06:20 PM
A gnome or kobold. Or a sword. With wheels.

SurlySeraph
2008-11-03, 06:23 PM
No go either way. Awakened squirrels are Magical Beasts, as are tressym. That makes them invalid targets for those spells.

*does research*
*cannot find any "Reduce Creature" or "Enlarge Creature" spells*
*throws up his hands in annoyance*

Homebrew it!

Glyphic
2008-11-03, 06:26 PM
A tiny squirrel duskblade with the obtain familiar feat, who uses it for mounted combat.. that might work.

Zeful
2008-11-03, 06:26 PM
*does research*
*cannot find any "Reduce Creature" or "Enlarge Creature" spells*
*throws up his hands in annoyance*

Homebrew it!

Psionics are (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm) your firend (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/compression.htm)

streakster
2008-11-03, 06:27 PM
No go either way. Awakened squirrels are Magical Beasts, as are tressym. That makes them invalid targets for those spells.

What would happen if you use the size spell on yourself and then have yourself awakened?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-03, 06:29 PM
The Small Monsters are actually pretty common, but they're hard to get ahold of. If you're 9th level, you can ride Elementals with the Summon Elemental Reserve Feat. Animated Objects can be any size, but again require 9th level(for Permanency). There are a bunch of ways of getting a Draconic pet(Dragon Cohort, Draconic Familiar, and Dragon Steed from Draconomicon), but they generally require a higher level. If you're a Necro, you can animate any small pet you want, though I would prefer to animate a Great Wyrm and ride in it's eye rather than on a smaller one. If you snag Improved Familiar, you can ride a Dretch or the like if the Alignment matches. Wild Cohort would get you a pretty large list of small creatures, but the only flier on it, IIRC, is the Eagle. Many of the others burrow, however. Leadership is probably your best bet. You can even snag a Kobold and have it take the feats to get wings.

Zeful
2008-11-03, 06:30 PM
What would happen if you use the size spell on yourself and then have yourself awakened?

One of two things happen. The spell ends because you are no longer a valid target. The spell acts as normal until the duration ends (or if permancied until dispelled) and cannot be renewed.

only1doug
2008-11-03, 06:32 PM
What would happen if you use the size spell on yourself and then have yourself awakened?

you still won't be a humanoid so still invalid target.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-03, 06:39 PM
you still won't be a humanoid so still invalid target.There are however Enlarge and Reduce Animal spells. And since the spell only checks legality at the time of casting...

arguskos
2008-11-03, 06:47 PM
About the Tressym, can you advance it's HD to increase the size, then use it?

-argus

Starshade
2008-11-03, 07:00 PM
What about a small dinosaur, as a Velociraptor, or a small pterosaur? Or a monsterous spider?

Shades of Gray
2008-11-03, 07:11 PM
Where are you getting the stats for a squirell?

And what book is awakened from?

paddyfool
2008-11-03, 07:15 PM
If the monstrous Animal Companion feat allows it, how about a Cockatrice? Clucky the doom-chicken ftw!

For uber-nastiness, you could try to get applying the "Of Legend" template from MM2 past your DM, in order to be riding The Cockatrice. Among other things, that template would allow the Gaze of Clucky to have an unbuffed DC of 31, and enable Clucky to cast healing spells and buffs on you or itself (if you chose the "Cast Spells as Level 5 Cleric" and "+4 all DCs" abilities from among the range of awesome abilities that this template grants).

Fax Celestis
2008-11-03, 07:16 PM
I'd rather not go with a familiar, as they're pretty fragile compared to animal companions--and they don't get feats. Right now I'm looking at going with a Mounted Combat Ranger (Dragon 326) Awakened Squirrel using an eagle (advantage: flight), a serval (advantage: pounce, rake), or a small viper (advantage: poison).

I don't think tressym increase in size for more HD, but I could be wrong on that.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-03, 07:18 PM
Where are you getting the stats for a squirell?

And what book is awakened from?

Just going with the rat stats for the squirrel stuff, though if I can wrangle it, I may try to get my DM to let me play a Skiurid instead. And awaken (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/awaken.htm) is in core.

Wckd
2008-11-03, 07:26 PM
Hm... If a squirrel could become a paladin I suppose you could get the mount at lvl 5, and choose just about any small sized mount you would like. (Provided that your DM allows it, which is very possible if being a Squirrel Paladin is allowed...)

Keld Denar
2008-11-03, 08:12 PM
What could be a better friend and companion to a squirrel than a moose? Go with it! Get in touch with your youthful cartoony self!

This might be a little before your time...

Ravens_cry
2008-11-03, 08:35 PM
Yeah, but what would Rocky NEED a mount for, he could fly. Bullwinkle was more a cohort. He was certainly of a lower level.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-03, 09:42 PM
What could be a better friend and companion to a squirrel than a moose? Go with it! Get in touch with your youthful cartoony self!

This might be a little before your time...

Ah, but then the DM would have to come up with two Russianesque villains--a tall woman and a short man.

Jack_Simth
2008-11-03, 09:56 PM
I'd rather not go with a familiar, as they're pretty fragile compared to animal companions--and they don't get feats. Right now I'm looking at going with a Mounted Combat Ranger (Dragon 326) Awakened Squirrel using an eagle (advantage: flight), a serval (advantage: pounce, rake), or a small viper (advantage: poison).

I don't think tressym increase in size for more HD, but I could be wrong on that.
Your Serval isn't going to be doing all that much damage - after all, it's still Small, and may not have the strength to qualify for Power Attack to mitigate that... and even if it does, animal hit dice are only 3/4ths BAB, and the animal companion only gets two bonus hit dice per three druid levels - so you'll be getting behind in battle, fast. Likewise for the Viper, the poison is very low DC.

Personally, my take on it is that the Flying option of the Eagle will be your best bet - just make sure to use those first few feats to either up the maneuverability enough that it can hover, or just have it pick up Hover. Mostly, though, your choice should depend on how you envision the character working - what would the character pick, based on personality rather than on mechanics?

Epinephrine
2008-11-03, 10:38 PM
Magical Beasts get d10s for HD and a BAB equal to HD; if you want a companion, I'd look at getting an Exalted companion or something. Celestial Eagle?

As another option for a class - The scout light cavalry variant (DR 346) could be fun. Skirmishing from the back of an eagle...bonus damage dice make up for the lack of punch that most tiny characters have. The scout variant progresses a mount like a paladin's, and gets extra speed boosts too, and at very high level freedom of movement for the mount.

The Wild Plains Outrider PrC is also worth looking at, if only to get the abilities to full attack with a move while mounted, and the ability to have your mount benefit from your skills like Hide and Move Silently.

Lyndworm
2008-11-04, 01:03 AM
Also from DR326 (p32, specifically) is Monstrous Animal Companion. It requires Savage Empathy (Also from DR326), but does allow such companions as Darkmantles (Small, First Tier), Giant Fire Beetles (Small, First Tier), Krenshars (Medium, Second Tier), Shocker Lizards (Small, Second Tier), Worgs (Medium, Second Tier), Displacer Beasts (Large, Third Tier), Griffons (Large, Third Tier), Owlbears (Large, Third Tier), Pegasus (Large, Third Tier), and Seacats (Large, Third Tier). The article lists fifteen more companions over the next three tiers, all of which could be suitable mounts.

Savage Emapthy
Requires the Wild Empathy class feature.

You no longer receive a 4 penalty when trying to use Wild Empathy on a Magical Beast.

Choose a creature type other than Animals, Construct, Humanoids, or Undead. You can now user Wild Empathy to influence a creature of this type if it has an Intelligence of 3 or less.

You may take this feat multiple times. Each time, it applies to a different creature type.

Zack

Irreverent Fool
2008-11-04, 06:16 AM
Monstrous Crabs are small iirc (edit: and I always do).

obnoxious
sig

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-11-04, 06:18 AM
Monstrous Crabs are small iirc.

obnoxious
sig...Actually, they're Large. Being small would eliminate their ability to grapple every single thing of ECL <6.

Irreverent Fool
2008-11-04, 08:11 AM
...Actually, they're Large. Being small would eliminate their ability to grapple every single thing of ECL <6.

Fine. Make me look at my books.

Checking out Stormwrack, it appears that Monstrous Crabs come in all sizes. The small one is a pathetic little 2HDcritter and wouldn't make a very good mount. I had assumed that a Large Monstrous Crab was an advanced version, but each size actually has seperate listings.

Nyah nyah nyah!

obnoxious
sig

Darrin
2008-11-04, 01:14 PM
I was thinking an awakened squirrel. I'll get to use gear and everything, since squirrels have opposable thumbs.


What source are you using for squirrel stats? If you use Dragon #280, the squirrel is a diminuative animal (which would let you ride on a tessym). However, most of the squirrels around where I live are pretty big, about the same size as a housecat, which is closer to what Dragon #341 says (equivalent of a rat, so tiny). Diminuative sounds more like a chipmunk.

If you're going to go tiny, then Dragon #327 has stats for a flying squirrel. Starts with a 10' glide speed.

What you really need is a Dire Tessym. I don't think we have an official 3.5 dire template, but Necromancer Games had one in Tome of Horrors and updated it to 3.5 on their website:

http://www.necromancergames.com/pdf/ToHDire.pdf

That'll give you a small-sized dire tessym.

Mephit
2008-11-04, 01:21 PM
The Swindlespitter Dinosaur is specifically listed as Animal Companion. They come with Stealth, a poison spray attack, and decent speed for a Small creature. (30 ft.)

Fax Celestis
2008-11-04, 01:50 PM
What you really need is a Dire Tessym. I don't think we have an official 3.5 dire template, but Necromancer Games had one in Tome of Horrors and updated it to 3.5 on their website:

http://www.necromancergames.com/pdf/ToHDire.pdf

That'll give you a small-sized dire tessym.

Oh damn, that's fricken' perfect.

Keld Denar
2008-11-04, 02:01 PM
Oh damn, that's fricken' perfect.

Just be sure to add the "of DOOM" template on top of all that...just for effect :)

Dire Tessym of DOOM! just sounds soooo good.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-04, 02:03 PM
...I'm going to be a ranger skiurid riding a shadow dire tressym with a pixie lance and a bad attitude.

This is quite possibly the most ludicrous character I've ever considered.

Gerrtt
2008-11-04, 03:08 PM
This idea is worthy.

http://thumbnail.search.aolcdn.com/truveo/images/thumbnails/EC/BC/ECBC608C3C294F.jpg

Darrin
2008-11-04, 03:09 PM
...I'm going to be a ranger skiurid riding a shadow dire tressym with a pixie lance and a bad attitude.

This is quite possibly the most ludicrous character I've ever considered.

Don't forget to add the Magebred template (Eberron p. 259, +10' speed or +2 NA, bonus feat such as INA or multiattack). You might also add the Horrid template (Eberron p. 289) for +5 NA, acid damage, acid immunity, and INA on all natural attacks.

I'm not sure you can add the shadow template. This would make it a magical beast, and thus ineligible as an animal companion. Did you mean the dark template (ToM p. 161)?

Dragon #350 has some mutation templates... Poisonous might be useful, and doesn't change the creature type. Woodling (MM3 p. 189) could add some plant immunities, entangle 1/day. Pseudonatural (CArc) would add true strike 1/day.

Oh, here we go... Beast of Xvim (Monsters of Faerun, p. 85-86). Immune to fear and poison. Smite Good 1/day. Frightful Presense (Ex). And then we have a "Feed (Su)" ability similar to a Barghest, but with no HD cap.

Triaxx
2008-11-04, 03:10 PM
This is quite possibly the most ludicrously awesome character I've ever considered.

Much better.

hamishspence
2008-11-04, 03:14 PM
I think Champions of Ruin might have updated them (as Beasts of Bane)

Epinephrine
2008-11-04, 03:22 PM
...I'm going to be a ranger skiurid riding a shadow dire tressym with a pixie lance and a bad attitude.

This is quite possibly the most ludicrous character I've ever considered.

Still think light cavalry scout would be more fun...

Fax Celestis
2008-11-04, 03:52 PM
I'm not sure you can add the shadow template. This would make it a magical beast, and thus ineligible as an animal companion. Did you mean the dark template (ToM p. 161)?

I did. Oops. Still, this is going to be ridiculous. And hilarious. And fun.

Talya
2008-11-04, 04:13 PM
I was thinking an awakened squirrel. I'll get to use gear and everything, since squirrels have opposable thumbs.



I've got a squirrel-like familiar for one character called a "Sugar Glider." It's actually a species of marsupial, and can glide (just in case you fall off your eagle.)

Darrin
2008-11-04, 04:45 PM
I think Champions of Ruin might have updated them (as Beasts of Bane)

Not Champions of Ruin. The template was updated to Beasts of Bane in Shadowdale: Scouring of the Land (which is 3.5).

Hmm... well, animal and vermin now change their type to magical beasts, so no more animal companion. The damage increase still stacks with Improved Natural Attack. And the Feed ability still has no HD cap.

hamishspence
2008-11-04, 04:47 PM
Ah, CoR had the Unholy Beast spell.

Signmaker
2008-11-04, 04:48 PM
Does this thread remind anyone else of Cait Sith?

Fax Celestis
2008-11-04, 04:57 PM
Does this thread remind anyone else of Cait Sith?

...a little.

Darrin
2008-11-04, 07:54 PM
Does this thread remind anyone else of Cait Sith?

Easily done with Shape Soulmeld: Lucky Dice.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-04, 08:14 PM
Easily done with Shape Soulmeld: Lucky Dice.

OH MAN I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT THOSE.

But how would one do the slots...?