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View Full Version : Just how Exotic is an Exotic Weapon?



Reaper_Monkey
2008-11-05, 01:06 PM
I can't seem to find any rules of how to *make* an exotic weapon, plenty around the place state the upper bounds of martial, and anything about it is exotic, but nothing places a cap on exotic. This poses a problem as I require two exotic weapon feats for a prerequisites to a prestige class I want, and I want to put them to good use.

I've already employed the help of a master blacksmith (third in line to directly service the king/kingdom in this region), and I've a fair quantity of disposable goods to fund the new weapon, which will be a two-handed axe of some sort. I'm stuck as to how to make it exotic and shiney, and how to use both feats usefully (can I dump them into one incredibly hard to use weapon, or should I make a good light/one headed back up, for instance. And just how much damage and critical multiplier and threat range can I fairly squeeze out of it?).

So my questions to you fellow homebrewers, is how do you classify Exotic, and what would you give the axe (and another weapon)?
The general character its for is a very strong barbarian like (but no levels in it) fighter, who was raised on a farm and so has always favoured farm like weapons (scythes, sickles, wood chopping styled axes etc), so I'd like to have it in keeping with that style.

Thanks for the help =)

afroakuma
2008-11-05, 01:11 PM
It's exotic if it is difficult to wield due to being a skillful weapon or a weapon that presents a great deal of danger to an untrained wielder.

Something like a recurve scythe (a scythe with a double-curved shaft that an expert wielder could employ to quickly reverse the direction of its sweep or add extra power to a single stroke) which I just bs'ed into existence now, would probably be what you seek.

Return of Lanky
2008-11-05, 02:18 PM
Realistically, you should be able to take a Martial Weapon and do one of the following to it:

-Increase the damage one die-step (e.g. 1d6 to 1d8)
-Increase the critical threat range by one (e.g. 20/x2 to 19-20/x2)
-Increase the critical threat multiplier by one (e.g. 20/x3 to 20/x4)
-Give it some sort of unique method of use (e.g. the Whip, Bolas, or Shuriken)
-Make it a double-weapon (e.g. the Halfling Rapier-Flail, one head being treated as a Rapier and the other being treated as a Flail)

However, the creation of an Exotic Weapon is essentially up to your DM. He might agree to let you, he might not. Exotic Weapons are nice enough, but you won't really be able to drag too much out of them. If you were really convincing your DM might allow you to get away with two of the above, but I wouldn't count on it.

Zeful
2008-11-05, 02:36 PM
It's exotic if it is difficult to wield due to being a skillful weapon or a weapon that presents a great deal of danger to an untrained wielder.

Something like a recurve scythe (a scythe with a double-curved shaft that an expert wielder could employ to quickly reverse the direction of its sweep or add extra power to a single stroke) which I just bs'ed into existence now, would probably be what you seek.

Something like this (http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/a/ae/250px-Noitora_2.JPG)?

afroakuma
2008-11-05, 02:43 PM
I couldn't make out the haft.

Zeful
2008-11-05, 03:11 PM
Better? (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c187/Fuji_Syuusuke/NoitoraJiruga3.gif)
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Lappy9000
2008-11-05, 03:12 PM
...the Halfling Rapier-Flail...

I wasn't sure if you were making this up or not. Yes, some of the sourcebook weapon are just that ridiculious.

afroakuma
2008-11-05, 03:25 PM
Zeful: Not even close. But that's a different exoticness.

I'm thinking more of a standard scythe, but with a doubly arced haft, allowing a more controlled two-handed grip, as well as cheerleader-like twirls and half-spins. With a giant scythe.

Fako
2008-11-05, 03:44 PM
Are you thinking of something like this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/CoryPiecek/__Double_Scythe___by_AbscenceOfHear.jpg), afroakuma?

afroakuma
2008-11-05, 03:59 PM
This (http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb127/ZiaeAmetru/Weapons/CurvedSythe.jpg) would be closer, although by no means exact. Basically an S-shaped scythe haft, allowing greater control, stop-reverse etc. with gripping areas.

Zeful
2008-11-05, 04:02 PM
I'm thinking more of a standard scythe, but with a doubly arced haft, allowing a more controlled two-handed grip, as well as cheerleader-like twirls and half-spins. With a giant scythe.
Death as a cheerleader?
Best. Character. EVER!

Owrtho
2008-11-05, 04:03 PM
Sooo.... are the harp strings just cuz you couldn't find anything better?

Owrtho

afroakuma
2008-11-05, 04:04 PM
Zeful: If you've read Neil Gaiman's Sandman, you've seen Death as a whole lot of other surprising but cool things.

Owrtho: Yep. In a nutshell.

Reaper_Monkey
2008-11-05, 04:32 PM
Realistically, you should be able to take a Martial Weapon and do one of the following to it:

-Increase the damage one die-step (e.g. 1d6 to 1d8)
-Increase the critical threat range by one (e.g. 20/x2 to 19-20/x2)
-Increase the critical threat multiplier by one (e.g. 20/x3 to 20/x4)
-Give it some sort of unique method of use (e.g. the Whip, Bolas, or Shuriken)
-Make it a double-weapon (e.g. the Halfling Rapier-Flail, one head being treated as a Rapier and the other being treated as a Flail)


This is very helpful thank you! I just need to find a suitable base... which brings me on to -


This (http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb127/ZiaeAmetru/Weapons/CurvedSythe.jpg) would be closer, although by no means exact. Basically an S-shaped scythe haft, allowing greater control, stop-reverse etc. with gripping areas.

First off, I must say, I love how this has become a thread on bad-ass scythe designs now :smallbiggrin: Although I'm not entirely sure how one would use this other than with close range gut swipes and bailing dodged blows early as so not to open yourself for easy hits. But I am liking the idea of a scythe again, I had much fun with the chaotic crits and awesome style that the scythe gives.

I'm thinking along the lines of a more slight version of afroakuma's recurve scythe handle... but with the outer side of the blade sweeping back up to make an axe head on the end and then returning to the handle with only a slight curve to it... basically creating an even more bizzare weapon than the Halfling Rapier-Flail! Think Zeful's suggested "scythe" but one sided and the two cresents meeting on the sides to form an axe head (and the upper curve lessened).

However, should I use the base of a scythe, or great-axe? and when combining the features, should i take averages/ move the stats so they follow that of Return of Lanky's guidelines so its more middle grounded... such as...

{table=head]Weapon | Cost | Dmg (S) | Dmg (M) | Dmg (L) | Critical | Weight | Type
Scythe | 18 gp | 1d6 | 2d4 | 2d6 | 4 | 10 lb. |Piercing or slashing
Greataxe | 20 gp | 1d10 | 1d12 | 3d6 | 3 | 12 lb. |Slashing
|
Axebase (crit) | ? gp | 1d10 | 1d12 | 3d6 | 4 | 12 lb. |Piercing or slashing
Scythebase (dam dice) | ? gp | 1d8 | 2d6 | 2d8 | 4 | 12 lb. |Piercing or slashing
Scythe (dam size)| ? gp | 2d4 | 2d6 | 3d6 | 4 | 12 lb. |Piercing or slashing
Average | ? gp | 1d8 | 1d10 | 2d8 | 19-20/2 | 12 lb. |Piercing or slashing
[/table]

Or, ya know, whatever you guys thinks fits such an odd weapon :smallfrown: (help)

ColonelFuster
2008-11-05, 04:56 PM
Double weapon? One side does 1d10 slashing x3, one does 2d4 slash/pierce x4?
It would be truly a truly ridiculous beast of a weapon, so go ahead and throw in tripping and disarming abilities, just for fun.

Return of Lanky
2008-11-05, 05:08 PM
I wasn't sure if you were making this up or not. Yes, some of the sourcebook weapon are just that ridiculious.

You know, I selected it because it sounded silly. Then again, after the silliness that is the Orc Double-Axe, Dire Flail, and the Gnommish Hooked Hammer, I suppose we should be prepared for anything. The only wonky double-weapon I like, thematically, is the Dwarven Urgrosh, because it's just a spike at the bottom of an axe handle.

And people wonder why I'm careful about what sourcebook material winds up in my games...

Johel
2008-11-05, 05:36 PM
Better? (http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c187/Fuji_Syuusuke/NoitoraJiruga3.gif)


Anime weapon...
Or "the biggest and most impractical, the better" :smallamused:
The best way to use THIS scynthe would just be to throw it at the ennemi. The weight himself should be enough...

If you're searching for exotic weapon, you can basically take whatever stereotype of "deadly ninja weapon". Most of them were, in fact, improvised weapons which proved to be efficient and were adapted to increase their effectiveness (the kunai was a guardening tool to begin with...). So think :
What everyday object could become a deadly weapon if it was a little sharper and more streamlined ?

As for the rules, yes, either increase the damage, the critic chances, the critic multiplicator, the range... bonus to hit, free attack of opportunity and basically every special rules for common and martial weapon can do it.

Fawkes
2008-11-05, 05:43 PM
Exotic weapon. (http://www.txroadrunners.com/images/pics/Funny6/redneck_swiss_army_gun.jpg)

Mando Knight
2008-11-05, 05:51 PM
Exotic Weapon:

Bananafanafofaser. (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/2663883828_fb34b8d162.jpg?v=0) (Best when combined with more weapons to form the Laser Daser Bobaser Bananafanafofaser with the X-Rayser Goawayser Laser Maser Raser Sprayser attachment)

...Eh?
2008-11-05, 05:53 PM
I wasn't sure if you were making this up or not. Yes, some of the sourcebook weapon are just that ridiculious.

The Gyrspike, while a sword/flail rather than a rapier/flail, is my personal favorite weapon of any kind in all of D&D, simply because of the mental images of a guy using it.

Moonshadow
2008-11-05, 06:06 PM
As Dr McNinja shows, frozen shamrocks can be an effective, but exotic weapon of death.

Lappy9000
2008-11-05, 08:26 PM
The Gyrspike, while a sword/flail rather than a rapier/flail, is my personal favorite weapon of any kind in all of D&D, simply because of the mental images of a guy using it.

http://www.hscripts.com/freeimages/icons/musical/music-tune/musical-tune-icon17.gifOrsich Gyrspike Blades, They're Magically Fallacious!http://www.hscripts.com/freeimages/icons/musical/music-tune/musical-tune-icon17.gif

Reaper_Monkey
2008-11-06, 06:48 AM
Double weapon? One side does 1d10 slashing x3, one does 2d4 slash/pierce x4?
It would be truly a truly ridiculous beast of a weapon, so go ahead and throw in tripping and disarming abilities, just for fun.

Wouldn't that make it a one-handed/light weapon though? My aim is to make a two-handed weapon, so doubles are out.

I've settled on a design however, here are my stats:-

The "Harvester" Axe is a large two-handed weapon, its height when stood upright comes up to the shoulder of the intended user, and the blades width spans twice the length of their arm.
It has a recurved handle, which follows through the underside of the axe head, which is sharpened to that of a scythe, as such the weapon looks much like a question mark along the inside lines. Its head resembles that of a standard wood chopping hand-axe, except that the front end is elongated to add the scythe curve along its belly. The head is formed out of a single piece of metal, and has a counter weight axe head on the other side, which is only a hand-span in length but is much thicker to support the main half of the head.

The blend of scythe an axe make this weapon a potent one, its recurved handle allows for more finesse in its use, and the counterweighted head offers more control in its swings than a standard scythe allows. The ability to hit with either the axe head, inner blade, or even counter head, makes this weapon constant in its damage output as a blow can almost always be landed.
Due to the weight, odd shape and unique method of fighting the axe supports, it requires special training to use; thus, it is an exotic weapon. It may be used as either a scythe or a (two-handed) battleaxe as a martial weapon, however still with a -4 to hit.

{table=head]Weapon | Cost | Dmg (S) | Dmg (M) | Dmg (L) | Critical | Weight | Type
Scythe | 18 gp | 1d6 | 2d4 | 2d6 | 4 | 10 lb. |Piercing or slashing
Battleaxe | 10 gp | 1d6 | 1d8 | 2d6 | 3 | 6 lb. | Slashing
|
The "Harvester" Axe | 210 gp | 1d12 | 2d8 | 3d8 | 3 | 20 lb. |Piercing or slashing
[/table]

What do you guys think?

charl
2008-11-06, 07:12 AM
and the blades width spans twice the length of their arm

That's quite a wide blade. The weapon is of course pretty ridiculous. I'm sorry, but when I try to visualize it, it looks stupid. =P

That said, it is still somewhat reasonable (compared to gyrspikes and such nonsense). Depending on what type of fantasy you are playing, it could fit into play.

Ossian
2008-11-06, 07:19 AM
"civic education" is considered an exotic weapon here in Italy, as of late, and you have to take the EWP if you want to have one. :smallbiggrin:

However, in the vein of badass, ridiculously oversized, a-la-anime etc...wet-dream weapons, pleae check the sabers below and the lightsabernunchuck (2nd from left) and light tonfa.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2024/jedilightsabersbykavinvry2.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jedilightsabersbykavinvry2.jpg)http://img136.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

Anyway, if you go to deviantart and type either lightsaber or exotic weapon you will get waves of wicked stuff...

Reaper_Monkey
2008-11-06, 10:38 AM
That's quite a wide blade. The weapon is of course pretty ridiculous. I'm sorry, but when I try to visualize it, it looks stupid. =P

That said, it is still somewhat reasonable (compared to gyrspikes and such nonsense). Depending on what type of fantasy you are playing, it could fit into play.

Okay, well two seconds in paint has yielded this to help you picture it, it aint perfect by a long shot (ill probably do something nice later) but it outlines it just about...

http://fc00.deviantart.com/fs33/f/2008/311/c/8/basic_axe_shape_by_Reaper_Monkey.png

charl
2008-11-06, 10:51 AM
Okey, that looks a less stupid than I imagined.

You need something to separate the blade from the users hand, though. To avoid accidental cutting.

I think that realistically you wouldn't make the top blade that long though. The sickles only has a long blade for agricultural use. An axe with that long a blade is probably not going to work that well. Look at pictures of real axes for reference.

Owrtho
2008-11-06, 10:59 AM
It's supposed to be a cross between an ax and a sycthe. As such I'd assume it can be used like either, so I don't think the long blade is an issue.

Owrtho

afroakuma
2008-11-06, 11:31 AM
It would end up being worse at both. My design suggestion employed the proficiency with wielding the funky shaft to increase damage and usability. This is just a bigger blade.

Heliomance
2008-11-06, 12:03 PM
Also, looking at the stats on that thing, you'd never use anything other than the harvester axe edge.

Reaper_Monkey
2008-11-06, 01:04 PM
Right, multiquote time....


You need something to separate the blade from the users hand, though. To avoid accidental cutting.
Well the idea is that you need to know how to hold the weapon just right in order to not injure yourself, and thats why it requires special training (read, exotic weapon). Owrtho also correctly pointed out that its a blend, which is why its not like a standard axe.


It would end up being worse at both. My design suggestion employed the proficiency with wielding the funky shaft to increase damage and usability. This is just a bigger blade.
Well this was meant to incorporate your shaft, it just didn't come out as well on the thrown together pain drawing (the one ive got on paper illustrates it much better). The bigger blade is to incorporate the axe as well as the scythe blade, its not just for the sake of being bigger.


Also, looking at the stats on that thing, you'd never use anything other than the harvester axe edge.
The other two are for reference for when your using it under martial proficiency only (with the -4 to hit remaining), the "harvester axe edge" is the damage that signifies the combined use of both halves, as any can be used when hitting. Its up to you or the DM to determine what bit of the weapon actually does the hitting from blow to blow, the damage roll is the sum of the likelihood that one will hit, and the damage that would deal. You could say for instance that any critical damage dealt will always be from the scythe, while high normal damage is the main axe head, and low normal damage is just butting them with the mildly sharpened counterweight end.

Hope this clears things up a wee bit more

charl
2008-11-06, 02:13 PM
The thing with battle axes is that they are mainly a parrying weapon. They were sometimes used as an off-hand weapon together with a sword, for that very reason.

Scythes would presumable be used in a very different style of combat.

The combination of the two doesn't really make sense.

But this is fantasy after all. You like it, use it.

afroakuma
2008-11-06, 02:59 PM
As I indicated, though, no lengthly wooden haft could coordinate such a large blade, nor could any Medium-size wielder operate a proportionate copy of this weapon to do any real damage. The blade is simply too large and too clumsy, failing at the functions of both of its parents.

Reaper_Monkey
2008-11-06, 03:28 PM
As I indicated, though, no lengthly wooden haft could coordinate such a large blade, nor could any Medium-size wielder operate a proportionate copy of this weapon to do any real damage. The blade is simply too large and too clumsy, failing at the functions of both of its parents.

What would you suggest for the handle then? Because I really like the idea of a blend between a scythe and axe, although I'd much rather feasible than pure fantasy... which leads me neatly on to...


The thing with battle axes is that they are mainly a parrying weapon.

My thinking here was that the damage output would be more akin to that of a battle axe, but it would be used more like a great-axe/ wood-chopping axe, ie, long sweeping blows which connect hard and do lots of damage, but lacking in precision. However, this weapon would be hard to use even in that way without training, and therefore wouldn't be has effective as a great-axe when wielded by an untrained fighter.

afroakuma
2008-11-06, 04:49 PM
The handle adds the exotic quality to it. What you have there is a martial polearm, albeit Cloud Strife's version of one.

A long, flat, weighted, tapered scythe blade on an elongated handle with the S-grip haft is feasibly wieldable and allows neat fighting tricks. It would also do crazy damage, have mad critical and reach to boot.

For everything else, you're veering into "Large halberd" territory.

As an alternate idea, if you want an exotic, chopping polearm, why not design a straight haft topped with a blade shaped such: )O(

It would have two shallow chopping sides and a slashing top.

Zeful
2008-11-06, 06:47 PM
What would you suggest for the handle then? Because I really like the idea of a blend between a scythe and axe, although I'd much rather feasible than pure fantasy... which leads me neatly on to...

You could just take a normal scythe blade and shore up the far side of the blade simply by pulling a little on the top curve of the weapon creating a kind of bulge in the blade. Sharpen it and you have a very poor axe simply because there isn't enough weight on a scythe to work as an axe. I'd just sharpen the entire back of the blade allowing you to make backhanded slashes with it. Turning it into a kind of double weapon (with about as much realism in design as the Dwarven Urgosh). Using Afrokuma's "S" haft you would have a very sensuous fighting style, looking like a kind of deadly dance.

afroakuma
2008-11-06, 06:56 PM
Using Afrokuma's "S" haft you would have a very sensuous fighting style, looking like a kind of deadly dance.

Oh, exotic! I thought you said... nevermind. :smallwink:

Zeful
2008-11-06, 07:30 PM
Ha, ha.:smallmad::smallamused:

But seriously it would have to be very fluid in order to put any real bite on the back-side edge. But it would definitely be an exotic weapon.

imp_fireball
2008-11-07, 08:33 PM
Sooo.... are the harp strings just cuz you couldn't find anything better?

Owrtho

Zomg bard instrument/weapon! Hey that's a good idea for an exotic feature. Make the weapon an instrument as well! Or maybe that would simply mean the expensive process of adding additional features to an instrument. :smalltongue:

Vagrant Lustoid
2008-11-08, 11:07 PM
Whenever anybody mentions an axe/scythe hybrid, I can't help but think of this weapon: Slayer Scythe (http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Scythe).

Mainly because I can't really see anything about it that's at all scythe like. To me it's always been an axe and has puzzled me about why it's called a scythe. Don't know if it's quite exotic enough though :P

Reaper_Monkey
2008-11-09, 06:40 AM
Whenever anybody mentions an axe/scythe hybrid, I can't help but think of this weapon: Slayer Scythe (http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Scythe).

Mainly because I can't really see anything about it that's at all scythe like. To me it's always been an axe and has puzzled me about why it's called a scythe. Don't know if it's quite exotic enough though :P

Actually that is quite puzzling... I've no idea why its meant to be a scythe either.

I'm thinking of dropping that line of thought, and just having a normal great-axe styled weapon, which resembles a large wood-chopping axe, but with more of a wedged head so the counter weight can be used as a bludgeoning weapon, and the handle being cunningly balanced to allow for heavier but more accurate swings. Call it a balanced great-axe, give it a 19-10 crit range and the ability to do bludgeoning damage, and be done with it. Its simple and to the point which fits my character, but exotic enough that it'll count for the feat.

Thanks for all the help though guys =)

Hawriel
2008-11-10, 01:21 AM
It's exotic if it is difficult to wield due to being a skillful weapon or a weapon that presents a great deal of danger to an untrained wielder.

Something like a recurve scythe (a scythe with a double-curved shaft that an expert wielder could employ to quickly reverse the direction of its sweep or add extra power to a single stroke) which I just bs'ed into existence now, would probably be what you seek.

The sythe is a common tool on farms. Any farmer would have a sythe recurved or not. It should have been a simple weapon exept that it does alot of damage and is two handed. The expert training in using a sythe is the life time experience of the farmer. Then again because how a sythe is made because of the way it is used, it is a highly impractical weapon. Better that the farmer use a hoe, mattock, pitchfork, or axe. A friend of mine has the type of sythe your talking about. Ive swung it around many times, its only good for slicing grain or ankles.


There afew rules WOTC used to classify an exotic weapon.
1) If the weapon is a highbred and can be used in two different fighting styles. Examples are the bastard sword or dwarven waraxe. They are in between the one handed and two handed weapons of each type. They can be used one handed with a shield. Thats the real reason. A D10 one handed weapon.

2) If the weapon can be used in two different ways. An example is the dwarven Ugrish (sp?). It is a waraxe with the butt end capped in a spear tip. You can swing it like an axe or set it like a spear to receave a charge.

3) A single weapon that lets the user fight as if they where duale wielding. These are your classic WOTC double weapons. Double axe, dire flail, double sword. Stupid and truly impractical as a real weapon.

4) The weapon allowes the user to perform a combat manuver with out consiquence, or a bonus to the manuver. A whip is this type of weapon. You can make a trip attack with a range bonus. Also if the user fails the apposed trip the weapon can be dropped with no penalty to the user.

5) The weapon's stats are a little better than the normal range for that class of weapon. The sythe has a x4 crit, the repeating crossbow has a faster reload time, the elven thin blade is a D8 rapier.

6) The fluff reason. The weapon even though from its country of origen it maybe a martial weapon in another land its exotic. the Naga-nata is such a weapon. The stats are exactly the same as a great sword but its a Japanies weapon.

7) BS/arbitrary reaspon. The hand crossbow. There is no reason other than drow like to use it. Its a small crossbow. it does a D4 damage.

If your weapon falls under any of these reasons it would be appropiate to call it exotic. Some of these reasons are crap and have been house ruled out by many peaple. The bastard sword and hand crossbow are commonly hand waved this way. Some other weapons do have at least one of these like the rapier or kukri are not. They have a +1 on the crit threat and they can be used with weapon finess. In short use your best judgment.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-10, 11:05 AM
Whenever anybody mentions an axe/scythe hybrid, I can't help but think of this weapon: Slayer Scythe (http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Scythe).

Mainly because I can't really see anything about it that's at all scythe like. To me it's always been an axe and has puzzled me about why it's called a scythe. Don't know if it's quite exotic enough though :P

It's called a scythe because it scythes bits of your opponents off of them. Really, it's like naming your sword "Sharp" or your dagger "Pointy".

chronoplasm
2008-11-10, 11:28 AM
Exotic weapon ideas:

A giant pair of scissors.
Steam-powered gauntlets with drills attached.
A giant spoon... for flinging acid.