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Edwin
2008-11-05, 01:13 PM
As this is the first post/thread I've ever made, I would just like to start by saying hello, and thanks for all the help you can provide me with, both in this thread and the ones hopefully to come.

The help I am in of is the following:

I would very much like the skilled people of the playgrunds help in statting out a 1st-10th level, full-fleshed fighter build, focused on mounted combat.
32point buy, using only whats in the SRD, cause' I have yet to buy any books, due to the fact that I am not sure of how much time, and money, I am willing to spend on D&D, until I know if how much it captures me, so to speak.
Regarding feats, skills, equiptment and whatnot, I have no requirements, just pick what you think would be beneficial.

Apart from the build itself, I also need help as to how I should play this characeter, meaning what tactics are useful. Also, I would really like it if you could tell me what power-level your respective builds are at.

I am aware that there is a thread for just this purpose, character creation that is, but because I also need advice on tactics an such, I felt that mixing it within that thread would be slightly confusing, if not on your part, then on mine. Once more, thank your for what help you can provide, criticism or otherwise.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-05, 01:41 PM
Well, you're going to want a lance (since lances multiply damage on a mounted charge), and you're most certainly going to want to take Power Attack and the entire Mounted Combat feat tree. I'd recommend going with an exotic mount--I prefer Giant Eagles, but Giant Owls and Rhinoceri work just as well (and remember, doing a diving charge adds another damage multiplier, so you deal x4 damage for a diving mounted lance charge with Spirited Charge, and any spare power attack damage is multiplied too!).

Edwin
2008-11-05, 01:50 PM
Well, lance it is, then.
Do you think you could help me statting out the character, feat by feat, and so on, too? That would be much appreciated!
That includes gear, and mount cost, if you can help me with that too.

insecure
2008-11-05, 02:06 PM
For feats, I'd suggest the weapon focus line. It's useful for, well, dealing damage if you're only using one weapon all the time. But remember to keep another weapon handy. If your mount aren't around, you can't really put a lance to good use. For gear, just get the nastiest enhancements to your weapon that you can get and a set of armor for you and your mount; I've too often seen people neglecting their mount. Also, get your hands on some strength boosting items like Belt of Giant Strength. There's nothing really complicated that fighters tend to need except for those and general all-around items, which everyone can use.

And welcome to the Playground, Edwin. Nice to see another Dane around. Except for myself, you're the first Dane I've seen on these forums.:smallsmile:

Edwin
2008-11-05, 02:13 PM
Yeah, as I figured going for weapon focus and specialization (I assume you meant that too, correct) would be good, cause' one can always use a better to-hit chance, yes?
And as for the second weapon, I was thinking of getting myself a longsword and a shield? Thanks for the help, by the way.

Oh, and god bless Denmark, as our dear queen would say. :smallsmile:

Hawk7915
2008-11-05, 02:25 PM
Stats on a 32 PB:
Str: 16
Con:14
Dex:14
Wis:10
Int: 14
Cha:10
- I prefer balance. Being a Rider means wanting a high ride skill so extra skill points are nice, and you'll be getting so many multipliers that not starting with an 18 Strength is acceptable. If you're the power-gaming type go -2 CHA, -1 INT, +1 strength to set up for the 18 at level 4 option. Racial-wise, Human is probably preferred but pretty much any non-small race would be fine.

Level 1: Mounted Combat (1st), Power Attack (Fighter), Improved Initiative (Human)
Level 2: Ride-by Attack (Fighter)
Level 3: Spirited Charge (2nd Feat)
Level 4: +1 strength, Improved Overrun (Fighter)
Level 5: Dead level
Level 6: Weapon Focus: Lance (Fighter), Trample (3rd Feat)
Level 7: Dead Level
Level 8: +1 strength, Weapon Specialization: Lance
Level 9: Improved Critical: Lance
Level 10: ???

- More than 8 levels of Fighter is sort of a waste in core, and at level 9 and further I'd recommend taking levels of Ranger, going archery style, and taking Mounted Archery at level 12. Ranger gives you more skill points and easier mount taming/training thanks to Handle Animal + Wild Empathy. That build looks solid though: You can move anywhere on the battle field, and when you charge you get a huge boost. Even if standing still and taking a full attack, you get +1 attack, +2 damage, and double threat with your lance. You can even do some battlefield control thanks to Overrun + Trample to knock people around and squash them with your Rhino mount. Hope that helps!

Edwin
2008-11-05, 02:51 PM
First of all, thank you so much for that. Much, much appreciated!

Secondly, think you might be able to help me a little with something else?
Namely, I cant seem to locate how much gold one would have at 10th level? Or any other level, for that matter. Think you can help me with that?

And third, I know, or atleast thats what I keep reading, that fighters generally suck in accordance to other classes, in particular spellcasting classes, even with Tome of Battle, they'll be worse off.
On the note of multiclassing to ranger, I understand that it'll probaly screw me a little less than full-fighter, but apart from the extra skill points, I am not sure I can see the benefit, considering that I am not really so much into ranged combat. Not with this character, anyway. But if you think it'll be important further on, I might end up doing it anyway.

Thanks in advance!

Miraqariftsky
2008-11-05, 02:54 PM
Greetings, comrade Edwin. Welcome.

Try being a strongheart halfling. That way, you can have an extra feat at first level and be small sized. The primary advantage for a mounted warrior? You can take your mount indoors.

Feats to take?
1. Animal Cohort, Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack
2. Spirited Charge
3. Short Haft
4. Power Attack

6. Weapon Focus

8. Weapon Specialization

10. Greater Weap-Spec... that or Trample

Animal Cohort gives you, well, just that. An animal companion whose abilities scale with yours as you level.

The next three feats should give you unparalleled mobility and power while mounted and using a lance. The lance, combined with Spirited Charge, deals triple damage. Ride-by Attack lets you sweep past your targets WITHOUT drawing AoOs. Mounted Combat lets you ignore a single attack against your trusty steed.

Short Haft lets you attack with the lance even opponents that have come right up in your face--- as in, you can fight foes adjacent to you while using the lance which is a reach weapon.

Power Attack sacrifices bits of attack bonus for damage. It's worth it when you're charging and by then, your weapon already has buffs and you can get your casters to buff you even more with Bull's Strength or Aid or Inspire Courage or Heroism, thus cranking out even more damage.

Thus, a general strategy for a mounted fighter with a lance would be fighting in the manner of guerrillas, using hit-and-run tactics. Charge and strike, ride past, turn and repeat until the target is obliterated. If you get cornered, or your enemies catch up to you and start laying on the hurt, you can stand and fight because you can shorten the grip on your haft and bash and stab away.

Edwin
2008-11-05, 03:07 PM
That's interesting. Are you saying that if I'm small-sized, I'll be able to take my mount indoors? That sounds awesome!
It'll solve the problem of not being able to stay mounted inside caverns an' stuff.(if you aren't allowed to do that, that is)

Quick question: If I were to say, take a full-round action, and do a charge, a lance would do triple the rolled damage, if I also had the Spirited Charge feat, yes? Now, if I did that, would my mount then also get an attack, like it does while using the overrun special attack along with the Trample feat?

Miraqariftsky
2008-11-05, 03:21 PM
I suppose that would depend on your DM. RAW... I don't rightly know. Sorry.

Edwin
2008-11-05, 03:22 PM
Ah, okay. That would've been cool, though.
Thanks anyway. :smallsmile:

BRC
2008-11-05, 03:25 PM
If your'e a halfling riding, for example, a trained riding dog, you could go inside dungeons. You'd still be best in wide open areas where you can use your maneuverability to your best advantage.

Now, you certainly want a lance for your primary weapon here. Unfortunetally, lances are reach weapons, so once your in close-quarters combat they become useless. I reccomend you get a Spiked Sheild and Improved Sheild Bash as a backup. A little extra AC is always good, and it makes a functional backup weapon. If you find yourself unable to charge frequently, pick up a Longsword or a Warhammer or something instead.

Tempest Fennac
2008-11-05, 03:32 PM
Nexus was refering to this particular feat: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a . (While Wild Cohort isn't as good as a Druid's companion, a feat called Natural Bond would help, if I remember correctly.)

EDIT: That would only be useful for a multi-class Druid looking at the feat.

Edwin
2008-11-05, 03:39 PM
Riding dog you say? I sort of find that a little too.. un-cool, unless its a wolf-dog type, of course.
And I am definitely going to carry a backup weapon for close combat, only concern I have about that is being forced to spend a feat on quick draw, if that is at all needed? And thanks.

Also, can someone please answer the question about the money, and about wether or not my mount will get an attack should I charge? (As it does with the Trample feat and the overrun attack.) Look further up if you missed it.

Tempest Fennac
2008-11-05, 03:41 PM
I don't think you'd need to pay anything for the animal if you take Wild Cohort. I'm not sure about the other questions, though.

BRC
2008-11-05, 03:44 PM
Riding dog you say? I sort of find that a little too.. un-cool, unless its a wolf-dog type, of course.
And I am definitely going to carry a backup weapon for close combat, only concern I have about that is being forced to spend a feat on quick draw, if that is at all needed? And thanks.

Also, can someone please answer the question about the money, and about wether or not my mount will get an attack should I charge? (As it does with the Trample feat and the overrun attack.) Look further up if you missed it.
Riding dogs are generally considered to be wolf-dog things, though there are exceptions.
The reason I suggested a Spiked sheild (Or spiked armor) is that you don't need to worry about quick-draw. You already have your sheild or armor on, it's just you are now using it to kill people.

Edwin
2008-11-05, 03:46 PM
The problem with that angle is that I am limited to what's in the SRD at the moment, and unless I missed it, it is not in the SRD. Would have been a great way to obtain it, though, and I am sure that would have provided me with a larger amount of mounts to choose from?

RagnaroksChosen
2008-11-05, 03:46 PM
Stats on a 32 PB:
Str: 16
Con:14
Dex:14
Wis:10
Int: 14
Cha:10
- I prefer balance. Being a Rider means wanting a high ride skill so extra skill points are nice, and you'll be getting so many multipliers that not starting with an 18 Strength is acceptable. If you're the power-gaming type go -2 CHA, -1 INT, +1 strength to set up for the 18 at level 4 option. Racial-wise, Human is probably preferred but pretty much any non-small race would be fine.

Level 1: Mounted Combat (1st), Power Attack (Fighter), Improved Initiative (Human)
Level 2: Ride-by Attack (Fighter)
Level 3: Spirited Charge (2nd Feat)
Level 4: +1 strength, Improved Overrun (Fighter)
Level 5: Dead level
Level 6: Weapon Focus: Lance (Fighter), Trample (3rd Feat)
Level 7: Dead Level
Level 8: +1 strength, Weapon Specialization: Lance
Level 9: Improved Critical: Lance
Level 10: ???

- More than 8 levels of Fighter is sort of a waste in core, and at level 9 and further I'd recommend taking levels of Ranger, going archery style, and taking Mounted Archery at level 12. Ranger gives you more skill points and easier mount taming/training thanks to Handle Animal + Wild Empathy. That build looks solid though: You can move anywhere on the battle field, and when you charge you get a huge boost. Even if standing still and taking a full attack, you get +1 attack, +2 damage, and double threat with your lance. You can even do some battlefield control thanks to Overrun + Trample to knock people around and squash them with your Rhino mount. Hope that helps!


I would keep his stat line:
Str: 16
Con:14
Dex:14
Wis:10
Int: 14
Cha:10

Change some feats around though

Level 1: Mounted Combat (1st), Power Attack (Fighter)
Level 2: Ride-by Attack (Fighter)
Level 3: Spirited Charge (2nd Feat)
Level 4: +1 strength, Two Weapon fighting(Fighter
Level 5: Dead level
Level 6: Weapon Focus: Lance (Fighter), Trample (3rd Feat)
Level 7: Dead Level
Level 8: +1 strength, Weapon Specialization: Lance
Level 9: Improved Critical: Lance
Level 10: Improved two weapon fighting


Go halfling get a riding dog... a lance , and get full plate with get armour spikes. Also a shield.

I took out improved overrun because i don't think it helps while mounted as your pets doing the overrunning...

Also you'll want to pick up a +1 lance with some other effect like flaming or what not. and gauntelets of ogres power.


Edit: you can two weapon fight with a two handed weapon and spike armour... forgot lances where reach weapons.
so scratch the two weapon fighting and pick up some random feats

Draz74
2008-11-05, 03:48 PM
Along the lines of Wild Cohort ... are you allowed any Feats, as long as they're available online?

Because I came up with a pretty sweet Human Fighter mounted combat build, no multiclassing. But it uses almost no feats from the PHB:

"Splatbooking the Classic Knight"
Human Fighter 20
L1: Shield Specialization, Shield Ward, Mounted Combat
L2: Ride-By Attack
L3: Wild Cohort
L4: Spirited Charge
L6: Improved Shield Bash, Agile Shield Fighter
L8: Martial Study (shield block)
L9: Endurance
L10: Martial Stance (thicket of blades)
L12: Steadfast Determination, Defensive Sweep
L14: Trample
L15: Power Attack
L16: Cavalry Charge
L18: Martial Study (wall of blades), Martial Study (iron heart surge)
L20: Mage Slayer

All feats (except Wild Cohort, which is on a WotC web site, and Martial Stance/Study, which would actually require the ToB to use anyway) are available for viewing at Realms Helps (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/feats.shtml).

Glyde
2008-11-05, 03:52 PM
Wealth by Level is on page 135 of the DMG. It's not allowed to be released on the internet or anything though, which is why it's not on the SRD.

You can choose any medium animal as your mount that would make sense and has a good move speed, hence why riding dog was suggested. A small pony would work too. The comical factor only matters so much, because your enemies only laugh as long as they aren't skewered (Which isn't a very long stretch of time indeed.)

derfenrirwolv
2008-11-05, 03:53 PM
Two weapon fighting is useless for a mounted fighter. The idea is to charge as often as possible, which means no two weapon attacks for you

Fax Celestis
2008-11-05, 03:54 PM
That's interesting. Are you saying that if I'm small-sized, I'll be able to take my mount indoors? That sounds awesome!
It'll solve the problem of not being able to stay mounted inside caverns an' stuff.(if you aren't allowed to do that, that is)You'll need to ride a medium creature (like a pony or a riding dog) instead of a large one (like a horse), but it's generally considered more effective.


Quick question: If I were to say, take a full-round action, and do a charge, a lance would do triple the rolled damage, if I also had the Spirited Charge feat, yes? Now, if I did that, would my mount then also get an attack, like it does while using the overrun special attack along with the Trample feat?
You'd only be able to do the overrun if you yourself had Ride-By Attack, since you'd need to go through your opponent to trigger trample. In general, though, mounts get just as many actions as their riders.

Glyde
2008-11-05, 03:54 PM
What if you dual wield and get Dual Strike? Does Dual Strike not let you attack with both weapons on a charge? It's kind of ambiguous.

Charging with two big lances outstretched from a dog with a high pitched "DIIIIEEE!!!" seems hilariously dangerous to me.

Edwin
2008-11-05, 04:00 PM
RagnaroksChosen: I am kind of attached to the idea of a halfling riding a dog dealing divine asskicking with a lance, so you know what? I think I am gonna go with that one. Thank you very much.

Draz: I have not found a dm yet, so right now I am just creating my character, and I'll get back to searching for a PbP game when I am done with that. Although, if feats found on the web will fly with whoever I find, I'll check out that build of yours. Thanks.

Edwin
2008-11-05, 04:05 PM
You'll need to ride a medium creature (like a pony or a riding dog) instead of a large one (like a horse), but it's generally considered more effective.


You'd only be able to do the overrun if you yourself had Ride-By Attack, since you'd need to go through your opponent to trigger trample. In general, though, mounts get just as many actions as their riders.

So, if i had Ride-by Attack, Tramble and then made an overrun attack, my mount would get to make an attack, right?
Then what if I had those same feats, and then charged someone, or something, would my mount still get to make an attack?

Person_Man
2008-11-05, 04:06 PM
I know you want Core only, but this is an SRD only build. I've noticed that many DMs say Core when they mean SRD (or free material in general), or vice verses. If it's not useful to you I apologize. But if it is useful, then you might want to consider using a Knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=2) instead. Far more useful and powerful, same basic tactics.

Halfling Fighter 10

When it comes to feat selection in general, I highly suggest that you avoid feats that provide a minor static bonus, such as Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization. Instead, look for feats that provide a scaled bonus, an extra attack, or a special ability you can't otherwise gain cheaply from a magic item. You get much more bang for your buck that way. Here are my level by level suggestions:

1 - Mounted Combat, Ride by Attack
2 - Spirited Charge
3 - Cleave
4 - Combat Reflexes
5 - dead level
6 - Leadership, Stand Still (http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:shxxIeDTZ0wJ:www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Stand_Still+srd+wiki+stand+still&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a)
7 - dead level
8 - Power Attack
9 - Hold the Line (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Hold_the_Line)
10 - Item Familiar (www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm)

This build gives you three things - high damage, battlefield control, and mobility. You get high damage from using a lance two handed with Spirited Charge and Power Attack - you also get extra attacks from Cleave, and Hold the Line. You get mobility from being a small character riding a medium sized mount using Ride by Attack every round. When you get Leadership, you can pick something interesting like a giant spider or a dragon. You get battlefield control from Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, and Hold the Line. Put them together with a good Dex, and your enemies will have a ridiculous time getting near you.

Use hit and run tactics. Avoid the urge to make a Full Attack. It's a lot less effective compared to the damage you'll get from a *3 lance attack, with the potential bonus attack from Trample and Hold the Line (since your enemies will often have to Charge you to get close).

Also, Overrun requires a Standard Action to use. You cannot use it as part of a Charge attack, which requires a Full Round Action. Thus a build that depends on Spirited Charge should never use it. A common house rule is that a mount may Overrun as part of a Charge. But this is a house rule.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-05, 04:06 PM
So, if i had Ride-by Attack, Tramble and then made an overrun attack, my mount would get to make an attack, right?
Then what if I had those same feats, and then charged someone, or something, would my mount still get to make an attack?

Yes on both counts.

golentan
2008-11-05, 04:11 PM
Two weapon fighting does work, if you get the pounce ability or a PrC I saw that gave two weapon attacks as a standard action. Esp. since you can wield a lance one handed while mounted. Might be worth a dip into something.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-05, 04:12 PM
Two weapon fighting does work, if you get the pounce ability or a PrC I saw that gave two weapon attacks as a standard action. Esp. since you can wield a lance one handed while mounted. Might be worth a dip into something.

He, uh, said CORE-ONLY. There is no pounce in core-only, aside from, y'know, wildshape.

RagnaroksChosen
2008-11-05, 04:13 PM
RagnaroksChosen: I am kind of attached to the idea of a halfling riding a dog dealing divine asskicking with a lance, so you know what? I think I am gonna go with that one. Thank you very much.

Draz: I have not found a dm yet, so right now I am just creating my character, and I'll get back to searching for a PbP game when I am done with that. Although, if feats found on the web will fly with whoever I find, I'll check out that build of yours. Thanks.

Ya i would just subtract the two weapon fighting im at work and only half thinking... i would however get + str stuff and make sure your party caster has spider climb or a wand of spiderclimb charging from the ceiling while being a halfling.

Edwin
2008-11-05, 04:17 PM
Yes on both counts.

Okay, cool, thanks.

Person Man: On the topic of Knight being a better choice, I am sure you are right. But the Knight class seems sort of complicated with all its challenges or whatever it is it does. And considering this particular character will be my first to actually play in regular D&D, I just want to keep it fairly simple. Hence, the fighter.
On the build, I am liking what I see. A halfling riding a giant spider, raining death upon his enemies without taking a single hit? Yeeesh, that sounds like a build I could fall in love with. So, I'll read up on it in the morning, maybe put my character together, and start looking for a PbP.

Thanks for the help everyone, and goodnight.
Feel free to keep posting more tactics, ideas and generally anything that might prove helpful, I'll check it out tomorrow sometime, thanks in advance.

derfenrirwolv
2008-11-05, 10:15 PM
Ther biggest problem i see with your build is the mount.

At some point, your dm is going to have a bad guy smart enough to do this to your mount.


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0437.html


It doesn't take much. Your riding dog/spider is going to only have 20 HP tops. Even without that, if you're planning to level 10 you're looking at a fireball to crisp your rider at some point. For both of those reasons, i'd go with a halfling paladin. Your mount gets stronger as you level up, and there's only so many fighter feats you can take, but nothing you do as far as mounted combat will be worth more than having a tougher horse.

metalbear
2008-11-05, 11:06 PM
By the way, for the dead levels of fighter, here is something you may find helpful.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a

in the PDF you will want to look at the Zhentarium Soldier substitution levels. It fills those dead fighter levels with fun little tid-bits like
-a bonus feat at third level
-an improved intimidation skill at 5th level
-allows you to use intimidation as a swift action at level 9

Mind you, your DM may not be okay with these level substitutions, but if it is allowed it gives you a free feat and some options if you like to use the intimidate skill. And what can strike fear into the hearts of Orcs better than a Halfling?

Tempest Fennac
2008-11-06, 03:29 AM
The animal which Wild Cohort grants gets stronger as well as you level up, derfenrirwolv (I'm not sure if the Paladin's mount is better or not, though).

Edwin
2008-11-06, 09:33 AM
Okay, so I've read the document I put together yesterday, containing your comments and suggestions, and I've put together this:

Halfling 10th level.

Str: 16
Con:14
Dex:14
Wis:10
Int: 14
Cha:10

Level 1: Mounted Combat (1st feat), Ride-by Attack (Fighter)
Level 2: Spirited Charge (Fighter)
Level 3: Wild Cohort (2nd feat, if DM allows it, or even better, Leadership)
Level 4: +1 Strength, Combat Reflexes (Fighter)
Level 5: Dead level
Level 6: Trample (3rd feat), Hold the Line (Fighter)
Level 7: Dead Level
Level 8: +1 Strength, Power Attack (Fighter)
Level 9: Cleave (4th feat)
Level 10: Stand Still? (Figther)

I plan on using the Wild Cohort to get myself a Riding Dog (having its HD increase as i level), and then charge in with a lance for triple damage, hoping to take down an enemy, and getting extra attacks by virtue of Cleave upon the other enemies hopefully in range.
Combat Reflexes and Hold the Line for additional AoO's, and Stand Still for battle control.
Does this seem viable? Or atleast, somewhat useful?

Edit: Oh yes, and as an answer to the Substitution Levels; being a member of the Zhentarim does not, in fact, go well with my current character concept. Good idea though, might even use it for a later one. Thanks.

Edit II: I edited the feats to match the feedback.

Person_Man
2008-11-06, 10:13 AM
Okay, so I've read the document I put together yesterday, containing your comments and suggestions, and I've put together this:

Halfling 10th level.

Str: 16
Con:14
Dex:14
Wis:10
Int: 14
Cha:10

Level 1: Mounted Combat (1st feat), Ride-by Attack (Fighter)
Level 2: Spirited Charge (Fighter)
Level 3: Wild Cohort (2nd feat, if DM allows it), otherwise I am thinking Power Attack, especially if it can be combined with my Charge attack.
Level 4: +1 Strength, Cleave (Fighter)
Level 5: Dead level
Level 6: Trample (3rd feat), Combat reflexes (Fighter)
Level 7: Dead Level
Level 8: +1 Strength, Hold the Line (Fighter)
Level 9: Great Cleave (4th feat)
Level 10: Stand Still? (Figther)

I plan on using the Wild Cohort to get myself a Riding Dog (having its HD increase as i level), and then charge in with a lance for triple damage, hoping to take down an enemy, and getting extra attacks by virtue of Cleave upon the other enemies hopefully in range.
Combat Reflexes and Hold the Line for additional AoO's, and Stand Still for battle control.
Does this seem viable? Or atleast, somewhat useful?

Edit: Oh yes, and as an answer to the Substitution Levels; being a member of the Zhentarim does not, in fact, go well with my current character concept. Good idea though, might even use it for a later one. Thanks.

Leadership is superior to Wild Cohort, and its core. Even with a mediocre Cha, you usually end up with a better companion.

Power Attack is a great feat, but it can generally wait until a higher level before you take it, when the potential bonus to damage will be much higher.

Great Cleave is a huge waste of a feat. It's very rare to threaten more then 2 enemies at a single time and to drop 2 of them.

Edwin
2008-11-06, 11:50 AM
Leadership is superior to Wild Cohort, and its core. Even with a mediocre Cha, you usually end up with a better companion.

Power Attack is a great feat, but it can generally wait until a higher level before you take it, when the potential bonus to damage will be much higher.

Great Cleave is a huge waste of a feat. It's very rare to threaten more then 2 enemies at a single time and to drop 2 of them.

Well, I've read a few times about Leadership being broken, and that alot of DM's ban it. So I am concerned about that, but if it will be allowed, I'll pick that instead.

I've changed the positions of Power Attack and Cleave and the Combat Reflexes and Hold the Line feats. And I've removed Great Cleave entirely.
Does that help?

derfenrirwolv
2008-11-06, 12:45 PM
The animal which Wild Cohort grants gets stronger as well as you level up, derfenrirwolv (I'm not sure if the Paladin's mount is better or not, though).

Yes, but he said core only. Thats a web suppliment (which most DM's rank slightly above "hey look what my little brother made last night)

The paladins horse is better by 1 HD untill level 15... and they're close. The only real advantage that the paladin mount has is that it starts off smarter than your average half orc barbarian. The fact tha they're so close, as a DM, would make me rather nervous. To get the equivilant of another class's defining ability with a feat seems a bit much.

The other advantage is sometimes there are places its hard to get a riding dog into. If the OP goes with the fighter route, you should make sure to take alot of ranks in climb and specifically get a harness for the dog when he needs to be hauled up the sheer cliff or dropped down the well or one of the other crazy dungeon entrances DM's come up with.

If the DM says no to the feat he's building the character around, he should fall back to the palladin.

Edwin
2008-11-06, 01:05 PM
I'd rather not got with paladin, because currently I am working around a sort of savage tribesman halfling type. And that is hardly the paladin thrope.
But if the DM wont let me take either Wild Cohort, or perhabs Leadership, I might consider revising the concept and picking the paladin.

And good idea about that harness thing, I'll check into it.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-06, 01:13 PM
The paladins horse is better by 1 HD untill level 15... and they're close. The only real advantage that the paladin mount has is that it starts off smarter than your average half orc barbarian. The fact tha they're so close, as a DM, would make me rather nervous. To get the equivilant of another class's defining ability with a feat seems a bit much.

The paladin's defining characteristic is not his mount, but his code.

Edwin
2008-11-06, 01:40 PM
I have a questions that I have been wondering about: Making a charge attack with a riding dog mount, 40ft speed, allows me to travel 80ft during the charge. If there are two enemies, say, goblins, in the squares I charge through, would I, and my mount, be allowed to make attacks upon both the goblins, or only the first? And if the answer is yes, are there a limit to the number of enemies I can hit during one single charge?

Person_Man
2008-11-06, 01:59 PM
I have a questions that I have been wondering about: Making a charge attack with a riding dog mount, 40ft speed, allows me to travel 80ft during the charge. If there are two enemies, say, goblins, in the squares I charge through, would I, and my mount, be allowed to make attacks upon both the goblins, or only the first? And if the answer is yes, are there a limit to the number of enemies I can hit during one single charge?

Unless you have the Pounce ability, you can only attack once as part of a Charge. If you get the Pounce ability, you can make a Full Attack as part of a Charge. (There are a ton of ways to get Pounce, but the only way to get Pounce with core rules is through Wildshape or Polymorph).

But even then, Ride-By Attack only allows you to "move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again." So when you attack, you must use all of your attacks against the enemies you threaten at the time. Your DM might house rule differently though.

Edwin
2008-11-06, 02:18 PM
Unless you have the Pounce ability, you can only attack once as part of a Charge. If you get the Pounce ability, you can make a Full Attack as part of a Charge. (There are a ton of ways to get Pounce, but the only way to get Pounce with core rules is through Wildshape or Polymorph).

But even then, Ride-By Attack only allows you to "move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again." So when you attack, you must use all of your attacks against the enemies you threaten at the time. Your DM might house rule differently though.

Ah, okay. Thank you. That is too bad, actually, would have been awesome..

Fax Celestis
2008-11-06, 02:24 PM
Well, I'm not so sure. If they're smaller than your dog, couldn't you trample them on the way to your target?

derfenrirwolv
2008-11-06, 02:24 PM
Something i'm not sure you're aware of (because i can't see your math) Is that you apply your racial stat modifiers after you spend the points. This means if you want your halfling paladin to start with 16 strength, you need to shell out a whopping 16 points as if a human had bought the 18.

In case your DM is mean...

Original values at 1st level before racial mods

Str 16 cost 10
Dex 10 cost 2
con 14 cost 6
int 10 cost 2
wis 14 cost 6
chr 14 cost 6

Total 32 pts.

After adjustments Str 14 Dex 12 con 14 int 10 wis 14 chr 14

Why these stats?

The strength is as high as it can go without sapping away all your other points. You need that for +hit and +damage

The dex of 12 may seem low for someone concentrating on riding, but you're going to eventualy wind up in full plate, which only allows a +1 dex modifier to ac. You will be swung at alot more often than you will be making ride checks.

con 14 You're going to charge into enemies. They WILL hit you eventualy

int 10 You get 2 skill points per level. You only NEED 2 skills : Concentration and Ride. If you want something else, you can ease off on concentration for a level or 2.

wis 14 Will allow you to cast all of your paladin spells as you level. Also adds to your will save. You could drop this down to 12 and hope to pick up a periapt of wisdom at some point if you had somewhere else to spend 2 points.

chr 14 +2 to all saves. On top of your natural halfing +1, you're getting damn near magic proof.



Feats

1st mounted combat
3rd Rideby attack
6th spirited charge
9th Weapon focus: Lance


What, no trample?

1) Trample as a feat isn't very good.



When you attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you. Your mount may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down, gaining the standard +4 bonus on attack rolls against prone targets.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Overrun

You still get the attack of opportunity, and no bonus to the action. Yes its cool, but you can do the maneuver without the feat.

2) chances are pretty good that if you're doing overrun, its past a mook standing in front of the big bad guy at the end of the dungeon. In that case if the mook moves out of the way, you can still make an attack at the BBGED.

3) Have your mount take power attack/improved over run if you want to do it that badly. Improved overrun is a LOT better than trample.

I know.. .WHAT? Let me point you to an often overlooked sentance in the paladin mount descritpion.



The mount gains additional skill points or feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monsterís Hit Dice.

This means that when your critter gains 3 hd you can get him a feat. Good feats include powerattack/improved overrun (the victem can take an AOO against you but not the mount) but this would have to wait untill 11th level (or 8th level with a war pony)

Or you can take alertness, lightning reflexes, run, skill focus (spot and or listen) , toughness, diehard (if you have a pony that comes ready made with endurence) weapon focus (hoof)





Things to remember


Your mount has gear too.

Invest in some barding. Armor bonus stacks with the creatures natural armor bonus.

Have an old cloak of resistance +2 now that the rest of the party has moved up to +4? Make a horse blanket out of it.

Spells you cast on yourself can affect your mount. You and your mount make a great meatshield with you standing there casting heal on yourself and letting the mount get healed as well. Divine favor will turn you and the mount intill killing machines, and Bulls strength will improve your hit, damage and chances of pulling off an overrun,


For the mount: See if you can go with a riding boar or a riding lizard. They have more HD, are still medium, and most importantly have a higher con bonus (which will add more HP as the extra dice get added) The boar can fight to -10, but the lizard can swim. A wolverine has a better con yet, but they go bezerk which 1) isn't very paladinish 2) isn't very fun when you're riding him.

Edwin
2008-11-06, 02:45 PM
First of all, Do'h! I completely blocked out racial modifiers!
I'll have to adjust some stuff now then, but I'll be cool.. I think.

Once again, I wanna a play a fighter, not a paladin. I appreciate your willingness to help me alot, and thank you, incidentally, but I am not looking for a Mounted Paladin Build. Besides, my DM allows me to take the Wild Cohort feat, so the fact that paladins gets a free mount gets almost irrelevant, considering its, like, 1 HD better or so?
Thanks so very much, anyway.

derfenrirwolv
2008-11-07, 02:28 AM
The pally was only plan B, since alot of people were helping with the fighter plan A

For a fighter i would reccomend

Str 16
dex 12
con 14
int 10
wis 14
chr 8

Strength is maxed for a halfling at first level. Dex 12 is the max you can do with full plate, con is for melee in gives you riding +1 other skill maxed out (possibly handle animal) chr is unneccesarry for you. You could drop the wis down to 12 and raise the int up to 12 if you wanted with no big changes.

Level Fighter feat Normal feat

1 mounted combat Ride by attack
2 spirited charge
3 Wild Cohort
4 Weapon focus: lance
5
6 Weapon specilization Combat reflexes
7
8 Power attack
9 Cleave
10 Great cleave.

Stat increases: Always increase strength


Why no hold the line?

I don't know if you've noticed, but a lance is a reach weapon. Hold the line becomes unneccesary. Opponents comming near you will draw an attack of opportunity whether they charge at you or by you or not.

Weapon focus/specialization?

You will be poking someone with that lance every. Single. Round. Adding +to hit and damage gives you a constant, steady, bonus. Plus, when you do a spirited charge for tripple damage, the +2 becomes a +6.


Cleave? Great cleave?

This is campaign situational, one of the reason I placed it after weapon specialization. Basically, you can charge in, do 3d6 + 15 points of damage minimum. It may be enough to put mooks down (particularly after your wizards fireball) on your way to the big bad.
If it is, you can effectively skewer 2 or more opponents in one charge. if your dm isn't using alot of mooks, or they're tough enough to withstand your charges, go with improved initiative instead. In every game i've been in, cleave has been a godsend for my fighter character in terms of damaging. Also, because of how iterative attacks work, power attack can be usefull in its own right. At higher levels, you almost can't miss your first attack, and power attacking can help you make up for some of the "missed" damage on your extra attacks you don't get to use when you move.

Combat reflexes?

Not only does it let you stab at multible monsters trying to get past you towards the squishy casters, but it lets you stab them when you're surprised. So, if the rogue sneaks up on the party and tries to go past you or up to you, even when you're surprised, you can skewer him


General strategy.

Wear a spiked gauntlet. That way you can drop your lance and fight in melee without drawing if you have to.

Have a longsword ready as backup.

It says you can use a lance 1 handed while mounted. If you know you're going against a caster, leave the shield away and charge in with 2 hands on the lance for extra damage.

Remember that when you charge, you normaly have to go to the square closest to your opponent that you can hit him from. With a reach weapon, this means you have to wind up 10 feet away from him. With ride by attack, thats not a problem for you. What you may want to do is either 1) Continue untill you're adjascent to the mob so your mount can attack him as well or 2) blow past him and start attacking the more vulnerable people from behind and or setting up for another charge/flank on the next round. I would do this only if your own casters had another meatsheild behind you or if your charge left the target about ready to die.

Teamwork! make sure your party knows not to block you in. With that reach weapon of yours, you may have to take a 5 foot step back to skewer an adjacent enemy (the order would be 1) mount attacks and takes a 5 foot step back, 2) full attack.

Talic
2008-11-07, 03:04 AM
The real advantage of being a small character is that mounts must be 1 size category larger than you to support you.

This means that medium creatures need large mounts, such as horses.

Small creatures? They can get by with some dogs, ponies, medium sized birds, etc.

Cheesegear
2008-11-07, 03:30 AM
A small advantage (heh...Small...Get it?) with a Riding Dog (and let's be honest, it can look like anything you want it to, as long as the mechanics are the same), that people often overlook, is that you don't take damage if you fall off.