The Rock Thread

[Raistlin1040]

Here it is, the glorious thread for all those who rock. Rock is a mighty genre, spanning everything from The Beatles to Guns N' Roses, from David Bowie to The Clash, from Chuck Berry to Rush, from Aerosmith to The Police, well, you get the idea.

Debate which band rocks/sucks, kickass concerts you've been to, stuff like that. And as an arbitrary opening topic, Chinese Democracy. Heard it? Love it, hate it? Gonna buy the album, because it sounds cool/it better be awesome, it's freaking 14 years in the making? Not gonna buy it, Axl's a prick/no piece of music is worth 14 years of wait?

[Oregano]

What, is Chinese Democracy finished/out?

[Raistlin1040]

Yeah dude. It's coming out November 23rd. They've even released the first single. Give me five minutes, I'll have a few links for you.

Chinese Democracy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG2mcOI4oME)
Shackler's Revenge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu2PvdMHY7I&feature=related)
Prostitute (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAQQ4qK6Fd8&feature=related)

In my opinion, Chinese Democracy (the song) is pure Appetite, with a modern flair, Shackler's Revenger is Nine Inch Nails kinda junk, alright, but not my thing, Prostitute is kinda Use Your Illusion, kinda ballady, but still pretty good. Bear in mind that Prostitute is possibly a demo.

I think it's going to be cool, a new direction maybe, but I like it.

[Silence]

I saw these guys (http://www.waybacks.com/) in concert. They're kinda rock...

[Oregano]

Hmmm, I'll definately check the album out, I just hope it's not industrial junk.

I still need to check out Queen + Paul Rodger's new album.

[Seraph]

AC/DC.


That is all.

[Sneak]

The Hold Steady.


That is all.

Fixed it for ya. :smallwink:

There are lots of other bands I love, but THS is probably my favorite straight up rock band.

[Red Sock]

AC/DC.


That is all.

Eh, they've gotten incredibly repetitive over the years. But their early stuff was kickass.

As for Chinese Democracy, I'll believe it when I see it. And I'll also be collecting my free can of Dr. Pepper.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Eh, they've gotten incredibly repetitive over the years. But their early stuff was kickass.

As for Chinese Democracy, I'll believe it when I see it. And I'll also be collecting my free can of Dr. Pepper.

Unfortunately, America isn't getting its free can of Dr. Pepper, as the thing is practically done and ready to go.
=/
Silly Rabbit is silly and got confused.
Duh.

[Red Sock]

Unfortunately, America isn't getting its free can of Dr. Pepper, as the thing is practically done and ready to go.
=/

Wait, what?

[TSGames]

As for Chinese Democracy, I'll believe it when I see it. And I'll also be collecting my free can of Dr. Pepper.

Dr.? When did he get his degree? After years of going by the alias of "Dr Pepper" he finally gets a degree, and no one even tells me. :(

I'm gonna have to go listen to best rock band of all time for hours on end to console myself, I speak, of course, of the legendary Led Zeppelin.

[Gaelbert]

I'm a huge Guns N' Roses fan. However, I probably won't be getting Chinese Democracy for a couple of reasons:
I refuse to give Axl Rose my money. I love Slash too much.
And I heard Chinese Democracy on the radio and it just wasn't te same. I don't know if I wasn't listening close enough or the reception was bad, but I didn't get that GNR vibe.

[Raistlin1040]

Well, I love Slash too, but after two 'meh' Velvet Revolver albums, I'm open to seeing what Axl's got to counter it.

[DBear]

Since when are CDs released on a Sunday? :smallconfused:

[Raistlin1040]

Since now I suppose. *Shrugs*

[Arlion]

Pink Floyd =Best band ever

i saw Roger Waters Live some time ago,and it was one of the best days in my life:smalltongue:

[skywalker]

Pink Floyd are pretty alright.

AC/DC leaves something to be desired in terms of variety, singing talent, actually, AC/DC just pretty much leaves something to be desired.

GNR is alright, I used to listen to Appetite a lot more than I do now, a little too much screaming for me, I think. Their newer stuff=meh, a lot of wankery if you ask me. Slash is a pretty decent artist and guy, Axl is a prick, so no, he probably doesn't deserve my money... I wish Slash actually created music more often, instead of just messing around. But they're both better than the entire genre of metal, so... :smalleek:

I like older rock and everything like it: Allman Brothers Band, Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, The Rolling Stones; also Bob Dylan, altho he's not really "rock."

Newer rock I like is more limited. Red Hot Chili Peppers, White Stripes, Rage Against the Machine, and that's about it.

[Jack Squat]

hmm...concerts I've been to.

The first three are linked because they're lesser known...and I'm too lazy to link all of them

Seven Nations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpiYSHRPudc)
Needfire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A83Cq_FY4pI)
Trans-Siberian Orchestra (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yey9381nB94)
Def Leppard/Journey
Styx/Foreigner/Def Leppard
George Thorogood
Little Feat

What I listen to is mostly bands from the late 60s to the mid 90s, although there's some newer stuff in there, it's just not a lot. I could list everything, but I'd end up forgetting a few.

[Decoy Lockbox]

So does this thread include stuff like punk rock and goth rock, or do those subgenres need their own thread?

[Jack Squat]

So does this thread include stuff like punk rock and goth rock, or do those subgenres need their own thread?

Toss them in here...I've got Celtic Rock tossed in here already

[Oregano]

I haven't been to any concerts sadly.:smallsigh:

I'd like to go see Feeder some time, I probably could have got tickets for their current tour but I just didn't, I don't know if I'm really a concert person. Too many people probably.

Seeing Queen would be awesome, but that's even less likely to happen and it wouldn't be classic Queen either.

[Raistlin1040]

So does this thread include stuff like punk rock and goth rock, or do those subgenres need their own thread?

No, right here is where they belong. I specified The Clash up top, and I would have put the Bauhaus or The Cure up as well, as examples of rock diversity, but I figured 8 bands was enough.

[Oregano]

The Cure are pretty diverse all on their lonesome. Not heard much of Bauhaus, Bela Lugosi's dead and their cover of Ziggy Stardust are awesome though.

[Raistlin1040]

You are correct on both accounts.

Anyone know if the new Oasis album is any good or not?

[Moff Chumley]

I saw Joe Jackson in concert. Most awesome show I've been to. This (www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrazznRgrOo) is more or less exactly what it sounded like when he played it.

Pink Floyd are indeed awesome, especially the stuff after Syd Barret but before Dark Side of the Moon, plus A Saucerful of Secrets.

The Cure are beasts. A Forest is one of the best songs ever recorded.

The Clash just plain win. "The King told the boogie men, you gotta let that raga drop" is perhaps one of the best lines ever written, and one that I would use as a band name if it weren't so long...

I saw Steely Dan live. They were instrumentally very tight, (except for the beastly solo on Kid Charlemaign, but anything but the original would be.) However, Donald Fagen's voice SUCKS.

And, of course, King Crimson (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1johp_king-crimson-elephant-talk_music). Just plain King Crimson.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I am connected in 7 steps to just about every rock star ever.

My mum's hair dresser is Robin Black, and he knows Billy Talent, who know just about everyone.

[KerfuffleMach2]

The only concert I've been to was Warped Tour 2006. My buddy's band was playing in it. Not too many big name bands, but it was fun.

[Gaelbert]

You are correct on both accounts.

Anyone know if the new Oasis album is any good or not?

I've heard that it was pretty good. I've heard a little bit of it too, and I thought it was pretty good. Personally, though, I can't stand Britpop stuff. I'm not sure why.

[Jorkens]

The rockingest thing I've ever seen was probably Melt Banana live. Everything else just seems quite tame after that.

[Raistlin1040]

Aww, Mitch Mitchell died on Wednesday :smallfrown:

[Lorn]

Pink Floyd are pretty alright.

AC/DC leaves something to be desired in terms of variety, singing talent, actually, AC/DC just pretty much leaves something to be desired.
Take a listen to Airbourne. Trust me - they're very similar to ACDC, but the vocals are MUCH better.

[Klose_the_Sith]

In order to add another "Best Band Ever" I'm going to go with Aerosmith. I would probably rate Lynyrd Skynyrd Second, Thin Lizzy Third.

[OverWilliam]

Deuces to pretty much everything in this thread.

GNR = Awesome, but maybe with a little Rose-shaped fly in the ointment. who knows, maybe if they had gotten a better singer it would only have distracted from the real reason we all listen to them?

Velvet Revolver = Should be awesome, might be awesome in an album or two. Their Money cover is sweetness.

Pink Floyd = Hits the nail on the head more than a few times, but kinda botches the rest to make up for it. Comfortably Numb slayed. You name it, it slayed at least one of them.

ACDC = Awesome, but nothing new for a while. Still headbanging to Back in Black.


What's the general consensus on Chris Broderic of Megadeth fame? I am not going to go all in and say he is my FAVORITE guitarist evar, but he's in the top three definitely.

[sean o the dead]

Toss them in here...I've got Celtic Rock tossed in here already

has anyone ever heard the band Eluveitei? (i know i find it unpronounceable too) its pretty well celtic deathmetal and its absolutely awesome.

(link to youtube)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abtK_9-cMpE

[Brewdude]

Aw man, I thought this thread was going to be about Dwane Johnson or that movie set in Alcatraz.

[Klose_the_Sith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wpyilPsi6Q&NR=1

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/jack_bruce_of_cream_says_led_zeppelin_is_crap.html

Where would you stand on this particular brit-war?

*Goes over to the Cream side*

[Oregano]

On Oasis: I never really liked them as I thought they were definitively average, and their new album(from what I've heard) has not changed my mind. So the conclusion I can come to for you is that it sounds fairly the same in quality to their past albums(whether that's good or bad). However some critics have been slating it, saying it's subpar and they've lost their edge and stuff like that.


@Klose_the_Sith:Thin Lizzy are awesome!

[Castaras]

Prog Rock > all other rock genres.

That is all.

:smalltongue:

Band-wise, I'm a 70s and 80s rocker. I don't really like 90s rock and onwards, because it was too simple and predictable. I like weird music, which keeps you guessing. Bands I listen to...

Genesis - especially earlier stuff. While the later stuff isn't bad, I much prefer Genesis when Steve Hackett was around. Really, it was after he left that the music goes downhill into pop. In my opinion, that is. There's still some gems hidden in the later stuff - Dreaming while you Sleep, and Home by the Sea, to mention two. Definitely a Lamb Lies down on Broadway person rather than a Follow Me Follow You person.

Rush - Lyrics. Amazing lyrics, and epic sagas. 2112 and Cygnus X-1 are awesome. They're also a band where I like pretty much everything they bring out. Anthem to One Little Victory. Probably the only album I've heard that I didn't like much would be Snakes and Arrows. I've been reliably told, however, that that's probably because I ain't old enough to appreciate it. Which would make sense really, seeing as Rush would probably write to the generation that started listening to them. And them staying together with the same 3 members for over 30 years is an amazing achievement in itself.

Pink Floyd - Lyrics + Weird music to start with. While I don't listen to them anywhere near as much as Rush or Genesis, I still like Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, and The Wall.

Jethro Tull - obvious ;) kinky lyrics. Or innuendo filled lyrics. Or both. Or just disturbing. My favourite album of theirs would definitely be Broadsword and the Beast. Every song on there is good. No bad ones. Which is quite a good achievement for a band.

Marillion - A new addition to my playlist. Really need to sort out recording Seasons End from tape to MP3 format, if I can. If it's anywhere near as good as Misplaced Childhood is, then I'll be ecstatic. I really like Childhood's End/White Feather. Amazing Finale. And then you have Grendel, which may be a rip off of Genesis' Supper's Ready, especially at the end, but it's still awesome. And Script for a Jester's Tear...is an amazing track. Definitely a band that's going high on my list of favourites.

Queensryche - These might be Prog Metal rather than Prog Rock, but eh. Only one album so far. Really want more. Operation: LIVEcrime is awesome. I like story albums. Or just a single song or two that tell stories.

...Wow, I write a lot when I'm procrastinating. But yeah. Prog Rock FTW. >.>

[RabbitHoleLost]

On Oasis: I never really liked them as I thought they were definitively average, and their new album(from what I've heard) has not changed my mind. So the conclusion I can come to for you is that it sounds fairly the same in quality to their past albums(whether that's good or bad). However some critics have been slating it, saying it's subpar and they've lost their edge and stuff like that.


@Klose_the_Sith:Thin Lizzy are awesome!

Having liked them for some time, I have to say that the critics are correct; there's just something...missing from the new album. I have to say it sounds like a large collective of noise..

[Red Sock]

What's the general consensus on Chris Broderic of Megadeth fame? I am not going to go all in and say he is my FAVORITE guitarist evar, but he's in the top three definitely.

Doesn't this belong in the metal thread? As for my opinion of him, I think he's very good, but not in my top 3. Maybe in my top 20. My top 3 guitarists would be something like this:

1. Eddie Van Halen
2. Yngwie Malmsteen
3. Jimmy Page

[Castaras]

Top three guitarists?

1. Steve Hackett

...

I'll get back to you on the next 2.

[hamishspence]

Well, I found Doom and The Scorpion King entertaining enough.

.....though thats not quite the question being asked :smallbiggrin:

For me, it's old style- Johnny B. Goode, Great Balls of Fire, etc.

[Raistlin1040]

1. Joe Perry
2. John Frusciante
3. George Harrison

From Aerosmith/Solo, Red Hot Chili Peppers/Solo, and The Beatles/Travelling Wilburys/Solo.

[Castaras]

Great Balls of Fire

I really need to listen to the original of that one...I only know the version of that from Return to the Forbidden Planet...

[Red Sock]

1. Joe Perry
2. John Frusciante Petrucci
3. George Harrison

From Aerosmith/Solo, Red Hot Chili Peppers/Solo, and The Beatles/Travelling Wilburys/Solo.

I think Dream Theater supporters will agree with me.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Hmmm ... (Note that I am only doing Rock Guitarists)

I would definitely have Perry at #1

1. Joe Perry
2. Jimi Hendrix
3. Jimmy Page

Yes, I rate Perry way above either of them

[Raistlin1040]

I love Hendrix, and I like Page, but come on. George Harrison is simply amazing, and I personally think John Frusciante has some of the coolest tones in music today.

[Oregano]

It's probably not the best guitarist ever but Brian May is awesome.:smallbiggrin:

[Red Sock]

I love Hendrix, and I like Page, but come on. George Harrison is simply amazing, and I personally think John Frusciante has some of the coolest tones in music today.

I consider Hendrix to be more of an awesome songwriter than guitarist.

[Lupy]

I like rocks. Igneous, sedimentary, metamorphic. Especially that see through volcanic gla- wrong kind of rock?

[Red Sock]

I like rocks. Igneous, sedimentary, metamorphic. Especially that see through volcanic gla- wrong kind of rock?

No no, you can talk about this kind of rock. So, of do you prefer granite or basalt?

[Lupy]

It's tough, I just love Igneous rocks... But the first time I fell off a hill some granite rocks broke my fall, so I'll say basalt. You?

[Beholder1995]

No no, you can talk about this kind of rock. So, of do you prefer granite or basalt?

*sigh*... Granite... 'tis the noblest of stones.

:smalltongue:

[hamishspence]

The Rock was closed in 1963. Almost unescapable, though there were rumours :smallbiggrin:

[Lupy]

*sigh*... Granite... 'tis the noblest of stones.

:smalltongue:

Nay, nay, 'tis Obsidian, so pure, so transparent in it's motives...

[Beholder1995]

Nay, nay, 'tis Obsidian, so pure, so transparent in it's motives...

Obsidian is but the keenest of stones; yea, I hear tell it can be sharpened to little more than an atom's thickness! Let the earth also know it hath played a most esteemable roll in the history of that brutish civilization of the Aztecs.

I don't know if that was grammatically correct or not, but it was fun to write. :smalltongue:

[Red Sock]

It's tough, I just love Igneous rocks... But the first time I fell off a hill some granite rocks broke my fall, so I'll say basalt. You?

Basalt. It has a wonderful texture.

[hamishspence]

I kinda liked rather poetic description of jade in National Geographic as:
"The Stone From Heaven"

[Moff Chumley]

I think Dream Theater supporters will agree with me.

Sorry, JP>JF. I'm sorry.

Cassie, you should check out some of Pink Floyd's pre Dark Side of the Moon stuff. Quite mind-blowing. And Yes. Everyone here, stop what you're doing and listen to something by Yes.

[Oregano]

Sorry, JP>JF. I'm sorry.

Cassie, you should check out some of Pink Floyd's pre Dark Side of the Moon stuff. Quite mind-blowing. And Yes. Everyone here, stop what you're doing and listen to something by Yes.

Is the guitarist from Yes called Steve Howe(I think Howe's right but not sure about the first name). He did some work on Innuendo by Queen and Brian May said he was better than him.

I've only heard Owner of a Lonely Heart, it's fantastic.

[Moff Chumley]

Is the guitarist from Yes called Steve Howe(I think Howe's right but not sure about the first name). He did some work on Innuendo by Queen and Brian May said he was better than him.

I've only heard Owner of a Lonely Heart, it's fantastic.

Steve Howe is indeed of Yes. As to Owner..., not so much. That was off of Yes's sell off album. >.< Listen to Roundabout and Siberian Khatru.

[Oregano]

Steve Howe is indeed of Yes. As to Owner..., not so much. That was off of Yes's sell off album. >.< Listen to Roundabout and Siberian Khatru.

Well I liked it, I thought it didn't sound like what I'd expect from what I'd heard about them.

[Red Sock]

Sorry, JP>JF. I'm sorry.

Cassie, you should check out some of Pink Floyd's pre Dark Side of the Moon stuff. Quite mind-blowing. And Yes. Everyone here, stop what you're doing and listen to something by Yes.

You're sorry that you agree with me?

[Moff Chumley]

I was addressing Raist, sorry for the confusion.

[Raistlin1040]

*Grimaces* Prog rock. Blech.

I'd say Rush is the only prog rock band I can even tolerate. The rest...*shudders*

[Moff Chumley]

*Grimaces* Prog rock. Blech.

I'd say Rush is the only prog rock band I can even tolerate. The rest...*shudders*

OFF WITH HiS HEAD!

Seriously, though, WHY?!? (Must not be MATURE enough to wrap his puny little mind around it...)

:{P

[Raistlin1040]

I take offense at that, even in jest. :smallannoyed:

It's boring. Honestly, it's completely dull for me. My dad informs me that the best musicians in the world play prog. Great. Then be Jimi Hendrix, or Yngwie Malmsteen or something. Do something totally amazing that's entertaining. My preference (likely given my own lack of guitar skill) has always been sound over skill. The Ramones are a fantastic band. But, technically, they are NOTHING. They have no amazing techniques, not a lot of skill. I can appreciate magnificent displays of guitar/bass/drums epicness. But when it's a boring experience, it just doesn't do it.

The other thing is that the vocalists (in most cases) are awful to listen to. I don't like Geddy Lee's singing, I don't like the guy from Yes, I don't like Peter Gabriel (Do like Phil Collins). Roger Waters is hit or miss. Ian Anderson is interesting, but I can't stand Jethro Tull (Entirely because my sister is a flautist and insists on playing their stuff since my Dad talker her into it.) Most of the time, the singers plain don't sound all that unique (though I understand that may be my addiction to singers like Steven Tyler, Axl Rose, and Jim Morrison.)

[SilentNight]

I must also respectfully disagree as an avid prog and Rush fan. Personally, I like Geddy Lee, more for his bass than voice but I'm still sad that he's losing it. As far as sound vs. skill, I've found that prog manages to combine both, more with chord changes than anything else. I'm guessing that you enjoy Boston though given your last post. I've always loved them not for technical prowess but just because their music sounds good.

[Raistlin1040]

Yeah, Boston's really cool. I dig Tom Scholz' tone, and Brad Delp had a really nice voice.

[SilentNight]

Yeah, Boston's really cool. I dig Tom Scholz' tone, and Brad Delp had a really nice voice.
Yeah, it's one of those bands that just sounds good, you can't specify why.

[zeratul]

Hey rock thread, any Foo Fighters fans round these parts?

[Raistlin1040]

Eh, they're alright.

[Red Sock]

Eh, they're alright.

Agreed.

But shame on you Raistlin for not liking prog rock. After all, isn't the mighty Pink Flyd prog rock?

[Raistlin1040]

Yes. Unfortunatly, I am not a big Pink Floyd fan. The only albums I really like are The Wall and Obscured By Clouds.

[Red Sock]

Yes. Unfortunatly, I am not a big Pink Floyd fan. The only albums I really like are The Wall and Obscured By Clouds.

How can you ever hope to live happily if you only like two Pink Floyd albums? This is madness! (no, this is not Sparta, or anything else. It's just madness).

[Oregano]

I like the Foo Fighters, very good, although I've found that anyway from a 1/4 to 1/2 of the songs on their albums are not that good. Except Echoes, Silence, Patience and Grace, I liked all the songs on that I think.

[Semidi]

Yes. Unfortunatly, I am not a big Pink Floyd fan. The only albums I really like are The Wall and Obscured By Clouds.

Go have a listen to "Piper at the Gates of Dawn" by Pink Floyd if you haven't. It's not a progressive album and not much like the other albums. It's psychedelic noise experimentation, and it's, in my opinion, their best, but then again, I'm a huge Syd Barret fan and not a huge prog rock fan.

[Castaras]

Sorry, JP>JF. I'm sorry.

Cassie, you should check out some of Pink Floyd's pre Dark Side of the Moon stuff. Quite mind-blowing. And Yes. Everyone here, stop what you're doing and listen to something by Yes.

That's the stuff I listen to also. :smalltongue: The Wall is the latest album of Pink Floyd I have. Saucerful of Secrets and Piper at the Gates at Dawn are funky albums. :smallsmile:

[Mr._Blinky]

Okay, I'm officially disappointed in everyone here. How has no one mentioned Dire Straits (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNaKWXqXkhw) yet? (yes, it's a stupid 80's MTV music video, but try and ignore that and just listen to the song)

AND HOW THE HELL HAS NO ONE MENTIONED THE BAND (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-xQoNDFwlE)!?!?!?!

Other than that, the obvious ones:
Jimi Hendrix
The Beatles
Pink Floyd
Jethro Tull
The Rolling Stones
Santana

And slightly less obvious:
Eric Clapton (when he does Rock)
Bruce Springsteen
Gogol Bordello (Gypsy Punks Underdog World Strike classified itself as Punk Rock on my computer, so I guess it counts, arguably)
Bob Dylan (again, when he does Rock)
The Grateful Dead
The Allman Brothers Band

[zeratul]

I like the Foo Fighters, very good, although I've found that anyway from a 1/4 to 1/2 of the songs on their albums are not that good. Except Echoes, Silence, Patience and Grace, I liked all the songs on that I think.

Yeah Echoes, Silence, Patience and Grace is probably their best album, since all of the songs were really solid on it.

[Em Blackleaf]

The Foo Fighters are great! *Leaves to go listen to them*

Uhm. So is Pink Floyd. And aren't Rush and Yes Prog rock? I love those bands too.

[zeratul]

From what I've seen rush has been reffered to as lots of things from prog rock, to heavey metal, to rock, to prog metal.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Santana

:smallbiggrin:
I'm glad someone else agrees with me.
Santana never gets enough love.

[Raistlin1040]

Santana is alright. He/they have some good stuff.

[Red Sock]

Okay, I'm officially disappointed in everyone here. How has no one mentioned Dire Straits (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNaKWXqXkhw) yet? (yes, it's a stupid 80's MTV music video, but try and ignore that and just listen to the song)

Indeed, Dire Straights is awesome. Gotta love songs like Sultans of Swing.

[Moff Chumley]

Raist, you're going to have to listen to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iirDSPHHwP0&NR=1). And this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOWsL-eC6Ik&feature=related), and maybe this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9NLFpzh9d4).

Then tell me what you think about Prog being boring?

[Raistlin1040]

Eh *Shrugs* The first one was alright.

[Jack Squat]

Santana is alright. He/they have some good stuff.

Yeah, I'm one of those people that prefer Santana when he teams up with other artists...Smooth and Into the Night have to be my favorite songs of his.

[Raistlin1040]

I normally don't like Rob Thomas, but Smooth was just great.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I normally don't like Rob Thomas, but Smooth was just great.

I prefer him with Matchbox Twenty, to be honest.
But..that's pop, isn't it?
>>
<<

[SilentNight]

And Yes. Everyone here, stop what you're doing and listen to something by Yes.

Just do it, you know you want to.

Santanna's great in my opinion. Although he has pretty heavy jazz influences, which may be a turn-off for a few terminally insane people in western Idaho.

[Moff Chumley]

Just do it, you know you want to.

Santanna's great in my opinion. Although he has pretty heavy jazz influences, which may be a turn-off for a few terminally insane people in western Idaho.

I'm interested in what you think of the songs I posted above.

[Gaelbert]

I'm interested in y'all's opinions on the Guitar Hero franchise and its effect on music.
Personally, I think it can be a good thing. It interests the kiddies in some proper music. Boston, I believe, reported a most excellent increase in sales of one of their songs after it was featured in Guitar Hero. It also will interest the chitlins in guitar.
Now for the bad part. It's my belief that Guitar Hero glamourizes rock, makes it more shallow. This isn't always a bad thing (some good bands came out of the 80s), but it usually is. Also, people bug the creep out of me when they brag about how they can play such and such song on guitar hero. Annoying little twerps. And as Yahtzee pointed out, Guitar Hero might make the next Zeppelin waste their time playing a game rather than making beautiful music.

Carlos Santana is a beast. I have his best of and I think it's amazing.

Stevie Ray Vaughn isn't rock, but it's electric blues, and I know there's not enough interest in that to justify making a Texas blues thread.

Do you people count shredders as metal r rock? My opinion is that they have their own special genre.

Chad Smith (Red Hot Chili Peppers' drummer), Sammy Hagar, Joe Satriani, and that one bassist that used to be in Van Halen are making a band. It is called Chickenfoot, and it will be epic.

John Frusciante is one of my favorite guitarists.

(Brought to you by: Rambling!)

[SilentNight]

I'm interested in what you think of the songs I posted above.

Just listening to the first one right now, don't have time for the rest but I'll get to them trust me. I like it, it's got some metal influence and a nice interlude at the end. I've never heard of the group though.

What song of Boston's was on Guitar Hero? And yeah, it annoys me too, the way people view it as a valuble life skill.

[Red Sock]

I'm interested in y'all's opinions on the Guitar Hero franchise and its effect on music.
Personally, I think it can be a good thing. It interests the kiddies in some proper music. Boston, I believe, reported a most excellent increase in sales of one of their songs after it was featured in Guitar Hero. It also will interest the chitlins in guitar.
Now for the bad part. It's my belief that Guitar Hero glamourizes rock, makes it more shallow. This isn't always a bad thing (some good bands came out of the 80s), but it usually is. Also, people bug the creep out of me when they brag about how they can play such and such song on guitar hero. Annoying little twerps. And as Yahtzee pointed out, Guitar Hero might make the next Zeppelin waste their time playing a game rather than making beautiful music.

Honestly, it irritates me that it gives some bands more fame than they deserve. Although it's good that it's giving some old school rock more fame. But regarding the bands that don't deserve the fame, I'm sure anyone who pays attention to the power metal world knows that Dragonforce is rolling in cash right now, just because they got on Guitar Hero, even though there's many better power metal bands. Although I do agree that it makes rock more shallow. Some people take the stuff on the loading screens seriously. Such as "Your bass amp is too loud, I can hear it!" Seriously, the stereotype of the bassist being insignificant does not need help.

[Raistlin1040]

I think the bit about the next Zeppelin wasting their time, I call that bull. I play Guitar Hero, and Rock Band, as well as real guitar and real keyboard. I mean, it's a fun game, but there's a limit, and nothing, not even a 100% completion of Don't Fear (The Reaper) on Expert Guitar, is nearly as satisfying as getting the riff from 'Every Breath You Take' down perfectly.

I'm kinda miffed by the "teaching children about good music" actually, since some people seem to think that knowing one or two songs from Guitar Hero automatically makes them uber huge fans of the band. I admit, I've fallen in love with some bands on Guitar Hero and Rock Band, but I've immediatly went out, bought their albums, listened to them religiously for a few weeks, and then devoted spare time to reading up on their biography.

Foreplay/Long Time was on Rock Band 1, and most of the first album became DLC soon after (Which I bought, of course.)

[Red Sock]

I'm kinda miffed by the "teaching children about good music" actually, since some people seem to think that knowing one or two songs from Guitar Hero automatically makes them uber huge fans of the band. I admit, I've fallen in love with some bands on Guitar Hero and Rock Band, but I've immediatly went out, bought their albums, listened to them religiously for a few weeks, and then devoted spare time to reading up on their biography.

That people, is what you should do. Although in general I dislike it when people claim that they're big fans of a band when they've only heard one or two songs. The biggest occurrence of this that I see is those people who claim that they're massive Metallica fans but have only heard Enter Sandman and Nothing Else Matters.

[Gaelbert]

I think the bit about the next Zeppelin wasting their time, I call that bull. I play Guitar Hero, and Rock Band, as well as real guitar and real keyboard. I mean, it's a fun game, but there's a limit, and nothing, not even a 100% completion of Don't Fear (The Reaper) on Expert Guitar, is nearly as satisfying as getting the riff from 'Every Breath You Take' down perfectly.

Unfortunately, Raist, not all of us are as talented or principled as you. And no, that wasn't sarcasm. I know plenty of so called musicians who get their money for nothing and their kicks from Guitar Hero instead of, oh, I don't know, actually rocking out.

[SilentNight]

I'm interested in what you think of the songs I posted above.

Alright, I liked the second one a lot but I suppose I'm just a sucker for good bass. :smallbiggrin: Spock's Beard though, not so much, I don't know why.

[Raistlin1040]

Unfortunately, Raist, not all of us are as talented or principled as you. And no, that wasn't sarcasm. I know plenty of so called musicians who get their money for nothing and their kicks from Guitar Hero instead of, oh, I don't know, actually rocking out.

It's not a bad game, not by a long shot. It's great, a lot of musicians have said so. It's just not a substitute. And some people don't want to rock out. It's not a matter of pricipal, I'm not somehow superior because I put the time to practice my guitar. Some people just go "Well hmm. I could play a fun game that makes me feel like I'm a rockstar, or I could go practice a real instrument forever, and probably not make it." If you want to play a real instrument, you should. If you want to play Guitar Hero, you should.

Hell, I don't play all that much of those games anymore, with school and work, but next Christmas season ('09) I am dropping EVERYTHING to play the Rock Band: The Beatles Edition on every instrument and difficulty. And that will be my entire two week winter break.

Guitar Hero is just way more fun than actual guitar. It's the truth.

[Moff Chumley]

Well, I figure if kids (aka, my peers) are listening and receptive to a few good songs, it shouldn't be to hard to say "You like Black Magic Woman? I'll burn you Soul Sacrifice and Evil Ways. You'll like those. Sunshine of Your Love is great. You should listen to more Clapton. Enter Sandman? I'll burn you Master of Puppets." Et cetera. I've converted quite a few people in that method. on a related note, I keep my backpack stocked with Dream Theater CDs I burned, and whenever someone says they like Disturbed, Slipknot, or their ilk, they get this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AQSraUMRyk).

Also, everyone here should listen to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CvxoeasJ2E&feature=related). Perhaps the best Prog Rock song under four minutes ever recorded.

[Neon Knight]

Yo.


Enter Sandman? I'll burn you Master of Puppets."



I would give them the entirety of Ride the Lightning instead.

What do people think of Dio and Alice Cooper? I've picked up some of their stuff recently, but I only really like Dio's Holy Diver and Alice Cooper's Poison.

Oh, and Dokken rules. I'm listening to Paris is Burning right now.

[Jack Squat]

What do people think of Dio and Alice Cooper? I've picked up some of their stuff recently, but I only really like Dio's Holy Diver and Alice Cooper's Poison.

I'm not a big fan of Dio. Poison is probably one of Cooper's best songs, I also like Welcome to my Nightmare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ8Z5fjqOYs), Hey Stoopid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaR9I7CEiJc), and No More Mr. Nice Guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZnhuOEUFXA&feature=related).

[Zakama]

Bruce Springsteen has not been mentioned enough here. No rock thread is complete without The Boss.

He's coming out with a new album in January... :smallbiggrin:

[Jack Squat]

Does he need to be mentioned? I mean many consider him the person who saved music from disco/70's pop.

I've got most of his albums, I'll grab this new one if it's got some songs I like near as much as Radio Nowhere on his last one.

[Oregano]

Does he need to be mentioned? I mean many consider him the person who saved music from disco/70's pop.

I've got most of his albums, I'll grab this new one if it's got some songs I like near as much as Radio Nowhere on his last one.

Never really found myself listening to Springsteen but my brother went to one of his recent(early this year or last year some time) concerts, he said it was awesome.

[Jack Squat]

I'm never going to go to one of his concerts, they're getting way up there in price. But yes, he does have awesome ones. He's been known to play until he has to be carried off the stage due to exhaustion.

Of course, with him being 59, that probably happens sooner than it did in the 70's.


...hmm, I just realized that Rick Springfield is exactly a month older than Bruce Springsteen; wierd.

[Oregano]

My bro got to go for free, he was working security.:smallwink:

[Gaelbert]

It's not a bad game, not by a long shot. It's great, a lot of musicians have said so. It's just not a substitute. And some people don't want to rock out. It's not a matter of pricipal, I'm not somehow superior because I put the time to practice my guitar. Some people just go "Well hmm. I could play a fun game that makes me feel like I'm a rockstar, or I could go practice a real instrument forever, and probably not make it." If you want to play a real instrument, you should. If you want to play Guitar Hero, you should.

Hell, I don't play all that much of those games anymore, with school and work, but next Christmas season ('09) I am dropping EVERYTHING to play the Rock Band: The Beatles Edition on every instrument and difficulty. And that will be my entire two week winter break.

Guitar Hero is just way more fun than actual guitar. It's the truth.

I'm not claiming they're bad games. I've played a number of them and enjoyed them all, had a blast. But what does worry me is that people are substituting GH for real music. It's the principle of the matter, I think. I think of music as an art, I suppose, and it worries me if... I don't know what I'm saying.

No argument on the Beatles. I didn't know they were making that, though.

For you, maybe. I find that I have more fun with the real thing.

[Red Sock]

What do people think of Dio and Alice Cooper? I've picked up some of their stuff recently, but I only really like Dio's Holy Diver and Alice Cooper's Poison.

Dio is pretty awesome. Discussion regarding him probably belongs in the Metal Thread, but what the hell. Holy Diver is an excellent album. The Killswitch Engage cover (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsiqtGnpU1w) was also pretty kickass. But I honestly think Dio's work with Black Sabbath was far better than most of what he did during his solo career.

[Moff Chumley]

Dio is pretty awesome. Discussion regarding him probably belongs in the Metal Thread, but what the hell. Holy Diver is an excellent album. The Killswitch Engage cover (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsiqtGnpU1w) was also pretty kickass. But I honestly think Dio's work with Black Sabbath was far better than most of what he did during his solo career.

But Ozzy shall always be superior.

[zeratul]

Dio is pretty awesome. Discussion regarding him probably belongs in the Metal Thread, but what the hell. Holy Diver is an excellent album. The Killswitch Engage cover (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsiqtGnpU1w) was also pretty kickass. But I honestly think Dio's work with Black Sabbath was far better than most of what he did during his solo career.
Yeah, generally Alice falls into heavy metal as being one of the first bands, then Dio being one of the later heavy metal bands.

[Red Sock]

But Ozzy shall always be superior.

NOT
AT
ALL


Yeah, generally Alice falls into heavy metal as being one of the first bands, then Dio being one of the later heavy metal bands.

Having your debut album come out in 1980 makes you one of the "later" metal bands?

[Moff Chumley]

NOT
AT
ALL

That's it, never talking to you ever again.

:P

[Red Sock]

That's it, never talking to you ever again.

:P

Very well, Ozzy fan. :smalltongue:

[zeratul]

NOT
AT
ALL



Having your debut album come out in 1980 makes you one of the "later" metal bands?

Well later than the 70s ones yes. :smalltongue:

[Moff Chumley]

Dare you challenge early seventies Ozzy, though? Also, he has the best song introduction ever: NOW WERE DOING PARANOID!

[Nameless]

Why are we talking about Metal? I thought we had a thread for that? :smalltongue:

Umm... Most of the gigs I've been too are metal ones (including glam metal bands) ... But I went to see Blackstone Cherry... They were awesome... Oh, and Rodger Waters... AMAZING concert...

[Joran]

I'm not claiming they're bad games. I've played a number of them and enjoyed them all, had a blast. But what does worry me is that people are substituting GH for real music. It's the principle of the matter, I think. I think of music as an art, I suppose, and it worries me if... I don't know what I'm saying.

No argument on the Beatles. I didn't know they were making that, though.

For you, maybe. I find that I have more fun with the real thing.

I can't play any instrument outside of the piano. I found that Rock Band really helped my appreciation of rock music. Once I started having to concentrate on trying to hear the bass or drum parts to play those parts, I started noticing the bass and drums in other music. It also helped open up new appreciation for songs I may not know too well.

Besides, to sing in Rock Band, you actually do have to sing ;)

[Red Sock]

Dare you challenge early seventies Ozzy, though? Also, he has the best song introduction ever: NOW WERE DOING PARANOID!

Well, it's quite simple. Dio is better.

[SilentNight]

Also, everyone here should listen to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CvxoeasJ2E&feature=related). Perhaps the best Prog Rock song under four minutes ever recorded.

Wrong, best prog song under four minutes is Fly by Night but that is pretty awesome. How have I never heard of this band before?

[Vazzaroth]

Probably not the first to say this, but I saw this on the Forum Overview where it shows the newest post.

I came because I thought it was about Geology. :smallfrown:

[Gaelbert]

I can't play any instrument outside of the piano. I found that Rock Band really helped my appreciation of rock music. Once I started having to concentrate on trying to hear the bass or drum parts to play those parts, I started noticing the bass and drums in other music. It also helped open up new appreciation for songs I may not know too well.

Besides, to sing in Rock Band, you actually do have to sing ;)

I always have a terrible time hearing bass. I've have Guitar Pro software, so what I normally do is download the tabs and then silence everything except the guitar and bass.

I usually play with a couple female friends of mine and they always make me sing. Even though I can't. But I usually miraculously pass with flying colors.

[Moff Chumley]

Wrong, best prog song under four minutes is Fly by Night but that is pretty awesome. How have I never heard of this band before?

Just because Fly By Night is by Rush doesn't make it Prog, but I digress.

You probably haven't heard of Porcupine Tree because, well, suffice to say, You've heard their four shortest, most accessible songs right there. ;)

Not really. But almost.

[SilentNight]

Just because Fly By Night is by Rush doesn't make it Prog, but I digress.

You probably haven't heard of Porcupine Tree because, well, suffice to say, You've heard their four shortest, most accessible songs right there. ;)

Not really. But almost.

Hrm, I suppose I need to look up the dictionary definition of prog then. Porcupine Tree is pretty dang good though.

[Castaras]

Best Prog song under 4 minutes, in my opinion, would either be Afterglow, Lilywhite Lilith, or Eclipse. Or Passage to Bangkok. Or Kayleigh (may sound pop, but there's prog bits for us prog listeners underneath to hear also). Or Steel Monkey. Or Bike. Or Closer to the Heart. Or Harold the Barrel (very clever way of telling a morbid story on top of an extremely bright and bouncy tune). Or Beastie (awesome song....). Or White Feather (I will wear your white feather / I will carry your white flag / I will swear I have no nation / But I'm proud to own my heart...). Or...

Yeah. I'm crap with "Best songs". It changes depending on my mood, tbh.

[SilentNight]

I'd like to change my Rush one to Something for Nothing. How could I forget about it? But yeah, I'm crap too, so many good ones, so little time.

[Red Sock]

Holy crap, Chinese Democracy can be heard on the Guns N Roses Myspace page (http://www.myspace.com/gunsnroses). I've just started listening to it. It sounds...decent. Definitely not worth the 15 years of waiting, but I'll wait to finish the album until I issue any judgment.

[Moff Chumley]

On a completely different spectrum from best short prog songs, what are you guys' favorite epics?Gotta say, Close to the Edge, The Gates of Delirium, Tarkus, Cinema Show, et cetera are all up there, but Octavarium and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence by Dream Theater are so winful it's not even funny. However, all of Spock's Beard's epics are quite kickass.

And then there was 2112...

[Red Sock]

On a completely different spectrum from best short prog songs, what are you guys' favorite epics?Gotta say, Close to the Edge, The Gates of Delirium, Tarkus, Cinema Show, et cetera are all up there, but Octavarium and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence by Dream Theater are so winful it's not even funny. However, all of Spock's Beard's epics are quite kickass.

And then there was 2112...

What, no mention of Metropolis Pt II when speaking of Dream Theater?

[Raistlin1040]

Gah, too much Prog. *Starts blasting Aerosmith's Classics Live album*

[SilentNight]

Ah yes, 2112. As far as epics, I only know the Rush ones from memory but if Xanadu qualifies then I have to go with that.

[Moff Chumley]

Gah, too much Prog. *Starts blasting Aerosmith's Classics Live album*

In retaliation, blasts Jon Cage. :smallamused:

[Ted_Stryker]

For the really long prog rock entries, I'm partial to the Atom Heart Mother Suite by Floyd and the whole Thick As A Brick album by Tull.

[Griemont]

Chinese Democracy, I hear, is a pretty cool guy...eh is giving everyone free Dr. Pepper and doesn't afraid of anything. :smallbiggrin:

[Gaelbert]

Mmm... time for some Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Christmas Canon rocks my socks. And Wizards In Winter isn't too shabby either.

[Moff Chumley]

Atom Heart Mother is amazing. Also, how could I forget Echoes?

[Oregano]

Chinese Democracy got 0 Stephen's on the Colbert Report.:smalltongue:

[SilentNight]

Mmm... time for some Trans-Siberian Orchestra. Christmas Canon rocks my socks. And Wizards In Winter isn't too shabby either.

Yeah, just found out about them. Christmas Eve Sarajevo is amazing. I kinda like most of the Beethoven album too.

[Castaras]

On a completely different spectrum from best short prog songs, what are you guys' favorite epics?Gotta say, Close to the Edge, The Gates of Delirium, Tarkus, Cinema Show, et cetera are all up there, but Octavarium and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence by Dream Theater are so winful it's not even funny. However, all of Spock's Beard's epics are quite kickass.

And then there was 2112...

No Supper's Ready? That is my favourite of the epics. Awesomeness rolled into one awesome song.

[Moff Chumley]

No Supper's Ready? That is my favourite of the epics. Awesomeness rolled into one awesome song.

Eh, it's okay if you're in to that, but I don't really like Genesis all that much. (Exept for The Knife.)

Also, what do you guys think of Primus?

[Klose_the_Sith]

Gah, too much Prog. *Starts blasting Aerosmith's Classics Live album*

Woooooooo Aerosmith!

[Ted_Stryker]

Also, what do you guys think of Primus?
PRIMUS SUCKS!! :smallbiggrin:

Frizzle Fry and Antipop are my favorite Primus albums by a fair margin. Most of their other albums are decent but have some rough patches.

[Semidi]

Too much prog in this thread, need it brought down to the gutter with some MC5 ((warning: one naughty word at the beginning of the song) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E372fuerleM) and maybe a little Stooges (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuT5kMoYc1w&feature=related). If that fails, I'll just toss in the extremely underrated glam of Roxy Music with Brian Eno (he's the guy who looks like an alien) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UODv3aCVxg).

I love that Stooges clip, it's worth watching, even if you hate it (you definitely might) to get to the end where he throws peanut butter at the crowd (the announcer: "...That's peanut butter?!"), and the Roxy music is worth listening to for the sax solo going into the electronica solo going into the guitar solo.

But really, there's not enough peanut butter in rock music anymore.

[Moff Chumley]

I'll see your early seventies punk and raise you some New Wave (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KQjy02eqOk).

[Oregano]

OOO new wave, I like The Police and INXS, they're new wave right?

[Raistlin1040]

I didn't open that link. However, I'm 90% sure that's going to be Oingo Boingo. The Police rule, by the way.

[SilentNight]

I actually haven't heard Primus at all, but I live near the club where they started.

[Shabal]

Just saw Joe Satriani a couple of months ago in Buffalo, and it was absolutely the best. Anyone who claims the man's slowing down is a filthy liar.
Also, Mountain opened, and they were decent. Mr. West came out at the end and did a fifteen-minute blues jam with Satch.

[Moff Chumley]

I didn't open that link. However, I'm 90% sure that's going to be Oingo Boingo. The Police rule, by the way.

Um [edit fu!] No it's not!

[Gaelbert]

MC5: The best band you've probably never heard of.
I found out about them recently after listening to Tom Morello and Serj Tankian's Axis of Justice, a guerrilla radio station.
Let's kick out the jams, you people!
Heh.
I thought it was "Let's blow up the dams, ************!" the first time I heard it.

[Eldpollard]

Now what would you say is definitive rock? Igneous, sedimentary or metamorphic?
For my igneous has a fresh new feeling to it. Sedimentary is somewhat flaky. Metamorphic however seems to be embracing change.

[Red Sock]

Now what would you say is definitive rock? Igneous, sedimentary or metamorphic?
For my igneous has a fresh new feeling to it. Sedimentary is somewhat flaky. Metamorphic however seems to be embracing change.

Hey, no carrying over jokes from the metal thread!

[Semidi]

MC5: The best band you've probably never heard of.
I found out about them recently after listening to Tom Morello and Serj Tankian's Axis of Justice, a guerrilla radio station.
Let's kick out the jams, you people!
Heh.
I thought it was "Let's blow up the dams, ************!" the first time I heard it.

If you're an MC5 fan, and don't already have the "Kick Out the Jams" live album, you seriously need to get a hold of it. It is without a doubt the most rockin' live album ever made. I don't think anyone has yet matched the sheer amount of energy in that album. I'm actually developing the MC5 as an alternative fuel source.

[Moff Chumley]

If you're an MC5 fan, and don't already have the "Kick Out the Jams" live album, you seriously need to get a hold of it. It is without a doubt the most rockin' live album ever made. I don't think anyone has yet matched the sheer amount of energy in that album. I'm actually developing the MC5 as an alternative fuel source.

Check this out. (http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/pf/mc5/4580.html)

[Neon Knight]

I seem to be a bit genre confused. How troublesome. Anyone care to give me the guide of how to determine genre?

[Gaelbert]

Um... I know most genres, but usually if it's some metal genre with 3 or 4 adjectives before it, I check out wikipedia. Can you be a little more specific about wha sort of music it is that you have problems with, or is it everything? Band names, something...
And I realize that what I said could sound really stupid.

[Neon Knight]

Dio is apparently early metal, while I always thought of it as glam rock, like Dokken or Twisted Sister. And Alice Cooper is metal? True, I haven't listened to much of his stuff, but I didn't think School's Out could be called metal. Of course, metal to me means mostly Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and Metallica.

[Gaelbert]

Well, with a lot of the early metal groups, it really was the attitude or what the bands called themselves that made the difference. However, Black Sabbath was definitely metal.
Metal is generally seen as something of a return to the blues roots, with a very thick and heavy song. That's how it started out, anyways.
Glam Rock is, from what I've seen, a major focus on the theatrics and appearance of the band. They may try to idealize a certain aspect of something. It's very much connected to the whole 80's hair metal scene, which wasn't really metal.
Alice Cooper I know has done glam rock, but I haven't really heard too terribly much of him, so past that I can't make any assumptions.
Don't know School's Out.

So I guess the reoccurring theme is the attitude, what the artists want to be seen as.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Glam Rock: See David Bowie, in his glam rock stage.

Glam Metal: See New York Dolls

Edit: I think. For another, more modern take on Glam Rock/Metal, see Robin Black.

[Semidi]

So yeah, I'm currently taking a class on Rock & Roll history. Here's some learning for you.

Alice Cooper essentially took the Detroit hard-edged-guitar (Stooges, MC5, ect. these guys are what you call proto-punk in that they were basically playing punk before there was punk) and streamlined it for an mainstream audience. He also added glam elements early on, but then he went to horror.

Glam can best be described as a brand of music that uses a great deal of theatrics in its performance and experiments with things like androgyny. There are two basic schools of glam: style is substance and art music. Style is substance are bands/people like Garry Glitter, Slade, and The Sweet. Art music is groups/people like David Bowie and Roxy Music. Bowie and Roxy Music were both interested in making extreme artistic statements.

80's hair metal was really metal. People might not want to admit it, but it's totally metal if you define metal as distorted electric guitar based around power chords and repetitive, catchy riffs with a few solos thrown in for good measure. Metal really got started and standardized by Black Sabbath who simplified British Blues. Sabbath was definitely NOT a return to African American blues as Sabbath did things blues guys like Muddy Waters were not doing; for example, Muddy Waters was never tuned down, heavily distorted, and never did all-riff (where all the members of a band play the same riff). For instance: Muddy Waters (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgHQalqG6E8&feature=related), and early Black Sabbath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6sViZZjiZE).

There are early examples that one could almost call metal such as elements of Led Zeppelin, the Yardbirds (with Jeff Beck), and others. I can go on, but I'm not.

New York Dolls are usually classified as Glam or Proto-Punk. Not metal.

The distinctions are not totally clear, I'll admit. I personally hate genres and think they're only useful for historical purposes and defining movements and inspirations.

[Gaelbert]

Metal really got started and standardized by Black Sabbath who simplified British Blues. Sabbath was definitely NOT a return to African American blues as Sabbath did things blues guys like Muddy Waters were not doing; for example, Muddy Waters was never tuned down, heavily distorted, and never did all-riff (where all the members of a band play the same riff). For instance: Muddy Waters (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgHQalqG6E8&feature=related), and early Black Sabbath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6sViZZjiZE).

There are early examples that one could almost call metal such as elements of Led Zeppelin, the Yardbirds (with Jeff Beck), and others. I can go on, but I'm not.

The down tuning was because Iommi's finger got messed up, not necessarily for the sound or because any blues people were doing it. Cuz no one was doing it beforehand, then it just caught on. Also, Earth, Black Sabbath before they changed their name, was a heavyish blues thing. I mean, I'm not at all saying that Black Sabbath were blues, because they weren't. But metal had more of a audible blues influence than others of the time.

And the bands that are now considered metal had diverse influences. Deep Purple did classical,.

Led Zeppelin is often considered metal, and they were a lot of what I was basing my "return to blues" thing off of.

[Semidi]

The down tuning was because Iommi's finger got messed up, not necessarily for the sound or because any blues people were doing it. Cuz no one was doing it beforehand, then it just caught on. Also, Earth, Black Sabbath before they changed their name, was a heavyish blues thing. I mean, I'm not at all saying that Black Sabbath were blues, because they weren't. But metal had more of a audible blues influence than others of the time.

And the bands that are now considered metal had diverse influences. Deep Purple did classical,.

Led Zeppelin is often considered metal, and they were a lot of what I was basing my "return to blues" thing off of.

The example of Sabbath I provided was from late 60s/early 70s. It was way more a departure from African American blues as British Blues transformed over time. Sabbath is generally the band that marks the definitive split between British Blues and just hard rock. Zeppelin was another departure yes, and resemble the blues very little. Zeppelin sped things up to extreme speeds, and Sabbath simplified things to the extreme.

Also, people were tuning down before, just not in the same way Sabbath did. Sabbath tuned down, slowed down, and made things repetitive. This helped produce metal.

Side note: I'm not trying to bash Sabbath because I love the band. I think that Rock music should be simple, and Sabbath is a perfect example of this.

Anyway, I really don't like arguing genre so I'm going to stop here.

[Gaelbert]

The example of Sabbath I provided was from late 60s/early 70s. It was way more a departure from African American blues as British Blues transformed over time. Sabbath is generally the band that marks the definitive split between British Blues and just hard rock. Zeppelin was another departure yes, and resemble the blues very little. Zeppelin sped things up to extreme speeds, and Sabbath simplified things to the extreme.

Also, people were tuning down before, just not in the same way Sabbath did. Sabbath tuned down, slowed down, and made things repetitive. This helped produce metal.

Side note: I'm not trying to bash Sabbath because I love the band. I think that Rock music should be simple, and Sabbath is a perfect example of this.

Anyway, I really don't like arguing genre so I'm going to stop here.

I bow to your superior knowledge.

[Moff Chumley]

However, to say that everything Sabbath did is simple would be incorrect. They were capable of being a very mobile, dexterous band.

[Pomcq]

Then what did Deep Purple do?

[SilentNight]

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNPYwWKThi4)

[commander43]

Somebody said the New York Dolls are glam metal.

In a word, Whaaaaaaaaaaat?

The Dolls were not particularly glammish, for one. Their attitude was somewhat glam, and they dressed in drag, but it was pretty much just a joke rather than any coherent attempt at a style.

And metal? Not at all. Some people will say that New York Dolls are punk, and while their style and attitude are, the music is pure old school rock, ala early Stones or Who. Also, GnR wish they sounded half as down low and nasty as the New York Dolls.

The above sentence was only included to cause arguments.

[Moff Chumley]

DP is okay, but I lot all respect for them after Highway Star. >.<

[Klose_the_Sith]

Anyone got their hands on Chinese Democracy yet?

I'll be getting it, whether its a recommendation or not, but I'd like to gauge this threads reaction.

[Raistlin1040]

I believe there was a thread on it a week ago or so.

I have it and love it. <333

It's awesome, IMO. A good blend of the huge arrangements, the heavy guitars, and Axl's voice (Available in both Screechin' and Deep varieties.) If you're looking for Appetite Part 2, you'll probably be mildly disappointed, but if you like Guns N' Roses, and try to distance what you want it to be, it's a great record. Also IMO, I think it's the best GNR album since Appetite.

[DraPrime]

Anyone got their hands on Chinese Democracy yet?

I'll be getting it, whether its a recommendation or not, but I'd like to gauge this threads reaction.

Chinese Democracy has redefined "meh" for me.

[Gaelbert]

Anyone got their hands on Chinese Democracy yet?

I'll be getting it, whether its a recommendation or not, but I'd like to gauge this threads reaction.

I have it as well.

Guns N' Roses was my favorite band

I was sorely disappointed.
Shackler's Revenge, Chinese Democracy, those were both the ones I heard hyped the most. I was not pleased with them.
The album had neither the crazed intensity of Appetite, nor the... whatever it was that made Illusions so good. (My guess is that the missing ingredient is Slash.) It just seems that the guitar sounds like a completely different style altogether. I understand that shifting from Slash to a lesser guitarist would mean a change in sound. Unfortunately, they countered this by going in a different direction. Don't hope for guitar solos. Just don't. Disappointing.

However, my expectations were incredibly high. (After all, the album was over ten years in the making.) The only thing that probably could have met them would be something by Chickenfoot. However, not everything was bad. Madagascar and Better were a couple of my favorites that might even be able to pretend to be part of the original Guns N' Roses. This I Love was good as well, if different. It's probably my favorite, and it's solo was very good, reminding of Slash a little. Ok, fine, a lot. The piano sounds like a splittin' image of November Rain, the very bestest song of all time. But that was the only place I could fine magic like that.

In conclusion, Chinese Democracy was a decent album of rock. It is good compared to most else being put out right now.
However, as a whole, it cannot hold a candle next to previous Gun shows such as Appetite, Illusions, Spaghetti, or GnR Lies.

Combine those two, and you get, as dragonprime so articulately put it, "meh."


And for all you Gun lovers out there, try listening to Hanoi Rocks. They had a lot of influence on GNR, and it's audible.

[Raistlin1040]

Slash is not that good of a guitarist people! I mean seriously, I love the guy, but he just rips off Joe Perry 75% of the time!

[Gaelbert]

Slash is not that good of a guitarist people! I mean seriously, I love the guy, but he just rips off Joe Perry 75% of the time!

Who ripped off Muddy Waters, who ripped off Robert Johnson.

This spot was reserved for who the Beatles ripped off, but I can't really think of anyone.

[Raistlin1040]

Chuck Berry, in the early days, before they got signed.

And no, Joe Perry ripped off Jimmy Page. Get your ripping offs straight.

[Gaelbert]

Chuck Berry, in the early days, before they got signed.

And no, Joe Perry ripped off Jimmy Page. Get your ripping offs straight.

Yeah, well Muddy Waters and Robert Johnson were somewhere on that chain of ripping off. And everybody rips off Hendrix. Even people who were around before him. Don't question that.

But that wasn't the point. My point is, to quote Newton: "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."
Slash may rip off Perry. But, in my opinion, Slash does it much better. I mean, I'm a fan of Aerosmith and all, but c'mon. I've yet to see a solo that matches November Rain or Sweet Child O' Mine. But enough of my fanboyish love of Slash.

[DraPrime]

Slash is not that good of a guitarist people! I mean seriously, I love the guy, but he just rips off Joe Perry 75% of the time!

Yeah, but he rips him off with style. The kind of style that let's him wear a top hat and aviators.

[UncleWolf]

I know something that you guys will be jealous about. :smallbiggrin:
In September I went to a ZZ Top concert and Bowling for Soup did the Intro for them. :smallbiggrin:

[Raistlin1040]

*Rolls eyes* Fanboys.

Solos are great and all, but when you break the two down technically, there's not a lot of difference. Joe Perry is just as proficiant as Slash on the guitar, if not more so. Slash may be a better soloist (or, rather, a flashier soloist, no offense meant), but I get the feeling he'd be the first to admit that Joe Perry's a better guitarist in general.

ZZ Top yay. Bowling for Soup, nay.

[thegurullamen]

What's the deal with Stairway to Heaven? Everyone likes it, but it sounds slow and boring to me. Gimme a Freebird any day over an agonizing climb to a metaphysical paradise, plz.

Can anyone explain the appeal?

[Matticus]

What's the deal with Stairway to Heaven? Everyone likes it, but it sounds slow and boring to me. Gimme a Freebird any day over an agonizing climb to a metaphysical paradise, plz.

Can anyone explain the appeal?


Burn the heathen!

[Avilan the Grey]

I have never been a "Band" person. I guess I am one of those people who are looked down upon because I have "no clue about music" (no I am not attacking anyone in this thread!!!). I hardly ever find it worth buying an album because it is only the one or two songs that I would ever listen to. That goes for any artist, any genre.

There ARE exceptions of course, like AC/DCs Back in Black, or Metallicas "Black" album which does not contain a single lemon.

As for Rock, I am usually fairly old-school. My favourite bands are mostly older than I am.

Example of some favourites are, in no order because it varies with mood:

AC/DC
Alice Cooper (especially Lost in America, Poison, Feed my Frankenstein)
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Ramones
KISS
Deep Purple
Led Zeppelin
Mötley Crüe
Aerosmith
ZZ Top

[UncleWolf]

Is it odd that most of my favorite rock songs are sung by female vocalists?
(My favorite is Pat Benetar's Heartbreaker)

[Nightmarenny]

Yeah, but he rips him off with style. The kind of style that let's him wear a top hat and aviators.
I find this funny as I hate Aerosmith and love GnR. With all this talk of Slash and Axl I got to say give the others some credit, guys. Slash and Axl did not make the band. They where a part of a group of very talented musicians. Duffs Bass riff over the intro riff in Sweet Child of Mine makes the song and many of the songs main riffs and lyrics were of Izzy's construction. So show some respect to GnRs as a whole, alright?

Now then I believe the post about Chinese Democracy is very unfair to the songs so I intend to write one myself, back in an hour.


Is it odd that most of my favorite rock songs are sung by female vocalists?
(My favorite is Pat Benetar's Heartbreaker)

I've recently fallen in love with Heart. So yeah I get that.

[Raistlin1040]

It's fine to like GNR and not Aerosmith. You just have to awknowledge that Aerosmith was easily Guns N' Roses biggest influence. From Axl's shreik to Slash's guitar, to Izzy's rythym, to Duff's bass, Guns was basically a dirtier, harder Aerosmith.

And while Steven, Matt, Duff, Izzy, Gilby, and all them were important, the two most well known members of most rock bands are the Singer and the Lead Guitarist. Mick Jagger, Keith Richards. Ronnie Wood and Charlie Watts are there too, but they're not as important to the image. Steven Tyler and Joe Perry. Liam and Noel Gallagher. Johnny and Joey Ramone. I could go on and on.

Obviously, there are exceptions. Nikki Sixx, Lars Ulrich, Flea, Keith Moon, ect. But with a two guitar, bass, drums, vocalist lineup, with no overlap, the singer and lead guitar player are usually the most viewable.

[Nightmarenny]

It's fine to like GNR and not Aerosmith. You just have to awknowledge that Aerosmith was easily Guns N' Roses biggest influence. From Axl's shreik to Slash's guitar, to Izzy's rythym, to Duff's bass, Guns was basically a dirtier, harder Aerosmith.

And while Steven, Matt, Duff, Izzy, Gilby, and all them were important, the two most well known members of most rock bands are the Singer and the Lead Guitarist. Mick Jagger, Keith Richards. Ronnie Wood and Charlie Watts are there too, but they're not as important to the image. Steven Tyler and Joe Perry. Liam and Noel Gallagher. Johnny and Joey Ramone. I could go on and on.

Obviously, there are exceptions. Nikki Sixx, Lars Ulrich, Flea, Keith Moon, ect. But with a two guitar, bass, drums, vocalist lineup, with no overlap, the singer and lead guitar player are usually the most viewable.Which is why I just wanted to be an advocate for the less talked about members of the band.

[Nightmarenny]

The nightmare Chinese Democracy Review

First alittle preface about certain preconceptions some of you may apply to this album.

Axl ain't charging you by the hour When you listen to this album try not to think "this took ten years?" Nothing can stand up to that sort of weight and it doesn't really change the final product. Whether this came out after three years of work or 10 we must view this like any other album. After all in 2049 when they name the 100 hundred greatest Albums of the last fifty years no one will give a damn about development time.

The new guitarists were never trying to be Slash Slash's skill is powerful but that doesn't mean a Guitarist must sound like him to be good. This is GnR but it is unapologeticly a new GnR and every guitarist they recruited for this project provides his own personal style. If you judge it by how close it gets to convincing you Slash worked on it, it fails and its really not a fair judge of the worth of the album.

Now then out of 10 with five being average we do this by song.

Chinese DemocracyThe first of to many long intros but I forgive this one for being at the start of the album. After its noise intro and a very brief arpeggio run we hit the main riff. It plays incomplete versions to build a climax to the first full A section of the song. I say section because this is one of many songs in which Axl plays with song structure. There is no chorus but instead two main sections and bridge like C section building up to a solo and then back again. The solo is credited to Buckethead and you can hear it all the way. Buckethead plays lead on much of this album and it should be said his ability improves alot when he's the center of the song only on the solo.

Now as for the the sections the first is dominated by the intro riff with a pince of lead thown in until right before the solo this portion of the song is the most enjoyable. The B sections rhythm guitar is just background for some "OK" lead playing and the vocals. Same with the C section.

Overall I like this song but its solo is very average and its beginning is annoying. The drums work and the bass is used only for its technical aspects. Its a 6 or 7.

Shacklers RevengeThese first two song are blistering in their Guitars its alittle misleading for the rest of the album. This is a song that apparently grows on you. At this point I quite like it. Its main riff gets some real use out of the bass player and it builds nicely to the other sections but some screaching may push others away. I also like the drums in the song and what is either Bucketheads killswitch, or a keyboard effect on the chorus. The chorus ends up being one of those chorus's you say are stupid at first, until you find yourself absent mindedly singing it.

Now lets talk about the solo, I believe the first draft was bucketheads but its got less of a show-off-y vibe(trying to sound better not faster) I quite like but its going to be very polarizing. I can best describe it as a scatter bomb aftershock.
I give it an 8

BetterThis is, to me the best part of the album. No question. Many of the later songs seem to be attempts to push the song in every direction at once and this is the one where it feels like it worked. Its soft and hard, emotional and bitter and it doesn't feel wrong. Were you to ask me if there is a song on this album that matchs Welcome to the Jungle in its blistering action Its this song. Its a long song that feels short. It also packs one of the Better Chorus's and a couple of alright solos. 10

The Streets of DreamsAn alright soft song that gets hard then backs off. 6

If the worldHip hop beat with alittle Middle-easten flare in places but mostly somewhere between boring and tedious. 4

There was a TimeI like this song but alot of time the Strings in back don't do much. 7

Catcher and the RyeWhat can I say. A pretty average song in my eyes 5

ScrapedAnother pretty average song exept a section in the song in which Axls low voice plays call and response with his high. The solos pretty cool, too. 6

Raid n The BedouinsObnoxious intro. But a pretty cool echo feeling to the riff. The lyrics are very strange and sometimes funny.

"I don't give a **** bout them because I. Am. Crazy!"

A few cool guitar and drum parts, too. 6

SorryThe Balled of the album. A refusal to conform in any way. Allthough considering his trust problems I can't help but think much of this is about himself.

The intrumentation is comprable to November Rain. Its an ok song that goes abit to long. 5

I.R.S.Another Ok song. It switchs it focus often and get alittle to Jaring when each line is played to a different riff(hyperbole). Nice solo. 5

MadagascarWorst song on the cd pretty boring in places.

This I loveThe real balled of the album. 5

Prostitute5

Overall a good album thats top heavy with most of the better songs being up front.

[Raistlin1040]

Isn't 7 generally an 'average' score? You've got a lot of 5s and 6s there, it's misleading because it looks like you didn't like the album, which you said you did.

[Nightmarenny]

Isn't 7 generally an 'average' score? You've got a lot of 5s and 6s there, it's misleading because it looks like you didn't like the album, which you said you did.

I've never understood why that is though. I like using five as an average score. After all do the lower numbers ever get used in that way? Have you seen many two's three's or ones?

[Oregano]

I've never understood why that is though. I like using five as an average score. After all do the lower numbers ever get used in that way? Have you seen many two's three's or ones?

Reviewers in Video games at least give 7s or above because they're afraid if they give too low they'll get sacked. It might also be not to alienate their fanbase.

[Raistlin1040]

I've always considered it in terms of percents. A 7 is anywhere in-between 70 and 79, the 'C' range, which is average.

[Nightmarenny]

Reviewers in Video games at least give 7s or above because they're afraid if they give too low they'll get sacked. It might also be not to alienate their fanbase.

Yeah, its a real fear thing. However that seems to be happening in all media, a reviewer will just rally against a movie or CD and just shovel hate on it and then give it a 70% or 60%. Producers have so much power over reviewers today. Its a shame.

[Oregano]

I've always considered it in terms of percents. A 7 is anywhere in-between 70 and 79, the 'C' range, which is average.

I think that's a bit higher than the C boundary but those boundaries are just plain stupid, I remember doing a test where I had to get 60% to pass, that's ridiculous and on some tests As can be anywhere from 80 to 95%.


Yeah, its a real fear thing. However that seems to be happening in all media, a reviewer will just rally against a movie or CD and just shovel hate on it and then give it a 70% or 60%. Producers have so much power over reviewers today. Its a shame.

That's why I like to review things sometimes and give them bad reps, it's also why I don't like using a number system because sometimes you don't feel right going below 6 or 7.

[Klose_the_Sith]

I think that's a bit higher than the C boundary but those boundaries are just plain stupid, I remember doing a test where I had to get 60% to pass, that's ridiculous and on some tests As can be anywhere from 80 to 95%.



That's why I like to review things sometimes and give them bad reps, it's also why I don't like using a number system because sometimes you don't feel right going below 6 or 7.

I've had tests where an 85% is not good enough to get me a pass. I had to resit or risk failing the class.

I liked the way you typed up your review, but I don't neccesarily agree with your points. Expect my far more positive rebuttal later on.

(I'm a big fan of what Buckethead does on this album, and I can't see why anyone would fail to realise that he is so much better then Slash. Nyeh.)

[Oregano]

I haven't even heard the album yet but it's got really good reviews in the British press.

85%!!!!??? That's ridiculious!!!:smalleek:

[sean o the dead]

listening to it right now...im not the GNR fan, but i really do like this album

[Raistlin1040]

I'm going to break down the album as I see it. No ratings, just reviews. So, here we go.


Chinese Democracy by Guns N' Rose
Chinese Democracy: Starts out kinda weird, then picks up with the bass, and then the guitar sets up a beat, Axl's scream fades in, then BAM! It's like an explosion, bass, drums, like three guitars, Axl's double-tracked vocals at different pitches. He's singing, one guitar is grooving, the other is just doing some messy lead work for kicks and then, again, explosion of rock. Ok, back to the groove/messy work, loudness again. Robin does a cool solo which leads into Buckethead's solo, sweet. In my opinion, this song is probably the most straightforward rock song on the album, very nice.

Shackler's Revenge: Don't like the opening. The guitar isn't nice sounding, the bass, while interesting, isn't great, Axl's voice starts off weird over the speed riff. When he goes higher pitched, it sounds whiny, and I could do without the background noise. Better when he picks up into the "Don't ever try to tell me" part. Gets really good when he's doing like, four vocals in the "I don't believe" part. Repeat the cycle. Bumblefoot's solo is nice, if unorthodox.

Better: Don't like the beginning drums, but the singing and guitar are fine. Sounds sweet when the drums move more rock, away from the hip-hop thing. Better is kind of hard to critique, I like it, but it feels a bit like two or three songs pieced together. It's alright. Buckethead's solo is ok, not as good as some on the album, but some good rythym guitar balances it out. Robin pulls out another cool one.

Street of Dreams: I love pianos. Honestly, they are awesome. But I'm just not liking this song very much. Don't like Axl's vocals much, the guitars are boring, and I don't think the piano/guitars/orchestra works well. Robin's solo is nice enough, Buckethead's sounds out of place.

If The World: Love it. Sounds very James Bond-y (I know I've said that before, but it does). Great vocals, like the bass and the synth. Falls a bit when Axl's voice drawls about a minute in, but the guitars come back strong a bit later to make it great. Buckethead does a short solo.

There Was A Time: Wow. Hated it the first few listens, really got into it after a few more. Love the lyrics. Very good verses, in my opinion, and the chorus doesn't ruin it. Nice synth and guitar. Robin's solo goes very nice against the acoustic guitar and synth backing. Buckethead wah-wahs his way through a cool solo as well. Also, the backing vocals abour 3:20 in are great. I swear, it sounds like Izzy Stradlin's there, even though I know he's not.

Catcher In The Rye: Nice, very strange opening guitar, but good. Maybe I'm biased, but the fact that it's a Lennon tribute makes me like it even more. Nice solos by Bumblefoot, Robin, and Bumblefoot again, but I preferred the Brian May version. Love the piano bit at the end.

Scraped: Love it. I love how Axl has like, four or five vocals going on sometimes. The beginning's a bit annoying, but the drums and guitar rock. Some great singing. Solos by Buckethead and Bumblefoot, pretty cool

Riad N' The Bedouins: Eh. It's not bad, could've been better. Don't really like the guitars, but I like how Axl does the shrieks. In case you haven't figured it out yet, I love Axl's voice. Bumblefoot does the first solo, Buckethead wails all over the outro.

Sorry: Fantastic. It's very building, like an old GNR ballad. I like Sebastian Bach, so it was cool to hear his do some background vocals. The first third of the song is really mellow (Well, for Guns anyway), the spacey guitar, the slow drumming. Then it turns into hard chords and loud drums for a minute, followed by Buckethead's old-fashioned November Rain-esque solo. Repeats after that.

I.R.S.: Don't really like this one. I like it enough to keep it on my Zune, but not enough to listen to it all the time. Ties with Street of Dreams for the worst song on the album, I think. Robin and Buckethead have solos, don't really like them though.

Madagascar: Axl sounds out of breath the entire song on the lead vocals, but the horns sound pretty cool, and I love the part in the center where the quotes are playing over the instruments. I also really like the part where the quotes end and the guitars crank it up. Buckethead's got an alright solo.

This I Love: Maybe it's because it was written in like 1996, but this song sounds most like old Guns, astonishing given that it's mostly piano. The piano, by the way, is beautiful, and the vocals and lyrics are pretty, over the sad synth. About 2:30, the best solo on the album cuts in, very Slash. Even though I like Buckethead, Richard, Bumblefoot, Robin, and Paul, it's great to hear Robin pull out all his stops, and just play a great emotional solo.

Prostitute: A little strange on the drums, and the early guitars, but the piano is nice, and Axl's voice is good. Love it when the guitars just explode about a minute in, and dominate the song. Buckethead's got a cool solo, if short. The piano at the end is nice

Notes on the guitarists: Robin and Buckethead are brilliant. Robin's got a Slash-y vibe on his solos, but I think he's creative enough to give it his own spin. Buckethead's solos are very original, very much his own, like his solo work. Bumblefoot isn't as good I think, but he's not awful. Richard is, quite frankly, an amazing player. He does a bit of lead, but is mostly rythym. Unfortunately, he only plays on 5 songs. I look forward to hearing him on future GNR releases. Paul isn't anything special, he can play what is needed, but isn't particularly noteworthy. However, Buckethead and Paul are no longer in the band, so that just leaves Robin, Richard, and Bumblefoot. Unfortunate, given that I prefer Buckethead to Bumblefoot.

[Boo]

I very much dislike Linkin Park and Metalica. Along with most any metal. I'm an indie rock type of guy. I also enjoy classic rock, and some other genres.

I'm sure we could all use a George Harrison plushie. *hint hint RHL* Maybe in a pirate outfit...

Right, well, my favourite band is Land of Talk (or it might be Sam Roberts) dunno. Both Canadian, and both are very good. Of course, this is whether you like their voice and rhythm.

[Raistlin1040]

If you gave Rabbit a George Harrison plushie, but didn't give me one, I would cry until she shared with me. Just so you know. Besides, she likes Ringo the best anyway.

[Boo]

I thought she liked Lennon more... But then again- *stops self before this becomes a 'which Beatle does Rabbit like best?' thread*

[Raistlin1040]

We'll wait until she gets back to figure out who's right. It's me, by the way =P

So, I was watching That Metal Show today, and they were talking about which band was better and more influential, Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin. I consider these bands on the line between rock and metal, so we might as well discuss it here. Thoughts?

[Boo]

In terms of more influential, I'd say Zeppelin. I couldn't say which is better without being biased, or just sounding dumb.

[Raistlin1040]

Well which do you prefer then? I prefer Black Sabbath, would probably put it pretty close as to who's more influential, with a slight lean towards Led Zeppelin.

[Boo]

Well, to be honest, I've never knowingly listened to a full song of theirs... >> Yeah, like I said. I couldn't answer without looking dumb.

I just looked up a few songs on youtube, as it has wonderful quality, and I found out that I've been hearing Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath songs for years. Just didn't know it.

Never bothered looking them up before.

Anyway, my opinion leans towards LZ as having better quality.

[sean o the dead]

if i may stick my two cents in here,

when you look at all the metal bands that are leaning towards the satanic and the dark twisted side, that all comes back to Sabbath. they definatly influenced that side of the genre

[Raistlin1040]

For all their theatrics and proclaimed occult dabblings, neither Zeppelin or Sabbath was "Satanic". Sabbath was more the darker side of hard rock/metal, but, for whatever reason, Led Zeppelin ended up far more mainstream and commercially popular, so they have more influence, if you ask me.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Rabbit's favorite Beatle is Ringo, with George as second.
John can be confused as her favorite, however, as he is the one she sees a lot of herself in.

[Ms.Malbolge]

I love both Ozzy and Zeppelin but bias aside I will have to agree that Zeppelin is the more influential of the two, at least in my little corner of OK. I can walk up to a coworker and have a 5 minute chat about Stairway to Heaven but If I mention Mr. Crowley I get blank looks.

That and it seems more modern bands site Zeppelin over Ozzy as an influence of theirs.

Or so it seems to me.

Edit: RHL, I want your avatars hat. :smallbiggrin:

[Raistlin1040]

Stairway is overrated, The Ocean and Heartbreaker are better. Mr. Crowley rocks. Though, I'm talking about Black Sabbath as the band, not just Ozzy solo. Also, most modern bands totally suck so...yeah.

[Ms.Malbolge]

Not to sound too cliche but a lot of modern bands sound like clones of the last modern band that hit it big. Perhaps that is musical elitism on my part but I just can't stand it. :smallfrown:

Or maybe it's because I've listened to classic rock since i was in the cradle.

Either way.

I do love Stairway but I do wish my local classic rock station would play more than Stairway and the occasional Immigrant Song.

Edit: This thread needs more Bob Seiger.

[Raistlin1040]

*Points at* You. I like you. We're friends now.

[Ms.Malbolge]

Yay! :smalltongue:

I love Bob, I really do... But what he did last year broke my heart.

He was scheduled to do a concert in Tulsa, OK and I bought tickets. Two days after buying the tickets the concert is canceled. :smallfrown:

[Raistlin1040]

He's alright, not my favorite. But by being a listener of classic rock, you are cool. Also yes, there are way too many clone bands these days.

[Ms.Malbolge]

Hrm. I also feel the need to share my love of ZZ Top before I go to bed. Under Pressure, Cheap Sunglasses, and ... Crap, can't remember the other song I love's name. But it's good too!

Got to see them in concert at Bikes Blues and BBQ last year. They're still great. :smallbiggrin:

[Raistlin1040]

ZZ Top rocks. La Grange, Just Got Paid, Jesus Just Left Chicago, Waiting for the Bus, Backdoor Love Affair, Sharp Dressed Man. Good stuff.

I think you mean Got Me Under Pressure?

[RabbitHoleLost]

Yay! :smalltongue:

I love Bob, I really do... But what he did last year broke my heart.

He was scheduled to do a concert in Tulsa, OK and I bought tickets. Two days after buying the tickets the concert is canceled. :smallfrown:

I remember that!
...Didn't actually get the tickets though. S'pose it was a good thing..

[Ms.Malbolge]

@Raistlin1040: I do in fact mean Got Me Under Pressure. (I am horrid with names!)

@Rabbit: It could be a good thing. He is rather old and probably doesn't sound as good now as he did. But it was still annoying. (Since I live 2 hours away from Tulsa and driving all the way back to return my tickets sucked.)

As for ZZ Top... They get their power from their beards... somehow.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

*puts hand up* I listen to classic rock sometimes.

I listen to alot of things, sometimes.

[Sneak]

I listen to some classic rock as well. When I was younger (I'm 15 now) I used to listen exclusively to The Beatles and classical music. Now, my tastes have broadened considerably. :smalltongue:

Just out of curiosity, is this thread exclusively for one type of rock, or just rock in general? Because that's a pretty broad and somewhat ill defined category (although that's generally true with most music genres, which is why I generally ignore them).

[Raistlin1040]

I thought I specified that in the first post...*goes to check*

Mmhmm, it says so. All kinds.

[Sneak]

Oh. Yeah...whoops.

So, once again out of curiosity, what would your definition of "rock" be?

For example, take three of my favorite bands: The Hold Steady, The Flaming Lips, and Iron & Wine. The Hold Steady is inarguably rock, and they revel in it. The Flaming Lips, I guess would be rock, although much of it is untraditional rock. But would Iron & Wine be classified as rock? Folk? Folk rock? His latest CD I would consider rock, but I'm less sure about his first two.

I don't know if you're familiar with Iron & Wine, but that's just an example.

Also, what exactly does "alternative rock" mean, in your opinion? It seems to be just a meaningless label that gets slapped on almost everything.

[Raistlin1040]

Alternative rock, yes a meaningless label in general. Before Nevermind, I'd say it was a legitimate title, for a different-sounding, indie kind of band. Note, this is not me being a musical elitist, this is just an opinion. There's really not much 'alternative' rock now, since it's gotten so mainstream. I don't like genre definition, a whole lot. I mean, there's Rock-Metal overlap, and some Pop-Rock overlap, and stuff like that. Yes, obviously, there are subgenres. Goth Rock, New Wave, Hard Rock, Punk Rock, but there's overlap within. Guns N' Roses is Hard Rock, but they were Punk-Inspired. Especially with an abstract term like 'Alternative', I think it becomes hard to define.

And no, unfortunately, I'm unfamiliar with Iron & Wine.

[Ms.Malbolge]

I really dislike genre labels, especially when it comes to rock. There are so many different genre's of rock now that it's a bit ridiculous and yes, everything now would probably be considered Alternative Rock, since they created that label to more or less separate indie groups and the like from bands like Bon Jovi and Poison. <At least it seems that way to me.>

Once the hair bands died and bands like Pearl Jam and Nirvana had their heyday it was all Alternative.

Anywho... When you have a genre list like: Rock, Metal, Heavy Metal, Steel, Dark Metal, Death Metal, Speed Metal, Power Metal etc...

It just becomes.. a bit much. IMO.

[Raistlin1040]

Eww. Poison. :smallyuk:

[zeratul]

I really dislike genre labels, especially when it comes to rock. There are so many different genre's of rock now that it's a bit ridiculous and yes, everything now would probably be considered Alternative Rock, since they created that label to more or less separate indie groups and the like from bands like Bon Jovi and Poison. <At least it seems that way to me.>

Once the hair bands died and bands like Pearl Jam and Nirvana had their heyday it was all Alternative.

Anywho... When you have a genre list like: Rock, Metal, Heavy Metal, Steel, Dark Metal, Death Metal, Speed Metal, Power Metal etc...

It just becomes.. a bit much. IMO.

*pops head in from the metal thread* I'd say if you listen to all the different types of heavy metal it kinda becomes necessary to find similar sounding bands that way. I mean for instance Glam Metal (Poison, Motley Crue) sounds very different from black metal (Bathory, Mayhem) but they both fall under the umbrella genre of metal due to their heaviness distorted guitars, drumming, solos, etc. Since there's plenty of people who love glam metal and hate black metal or visa versa it's useful to have these labels so people can find bands of the type they enjoy.

[Ms.Malbolge]

Yes, listening to Poison, as its name implies, will kill you.

Oh I know why they are there zeratul, and see your point.

But the sheer amount of genre labels can be a bit daunting at times. When I first started listening to some of the stuff from Black Label Society and Blind Guardian I had a hell of a time putting their music to a specific sub-genre.

Maybe I'm just genre-dumb. Could be a definite possibility.

[zeratul]

Yes, listening to Poison, as its name implies, will kill you.

Oh I know why they are there zeratul, and see your point.

But the sheer amount of genre labels can be a bit daunting at times. When I first started listening to some of the stuff from Black Label Society and Blind Guardian I had a hell of a time putting their music to a specific sub-genre.

Maybe I'm just genre-dumb. Could be a definite possibility.

Black label Society and Guardian are both pretty hard to place, I can;t really blame you. BLS would basically just be called heavy metal I beleive as they're pretty much just pure metal without any of the parts of the subgenres added in. Blind Guardian is pretty much powermetal but used to have thrash elements to them and have recently been experimenting with progressive and symphonic elements so power metals probably the easiest thing to call them but doesn;t fit perfectly. So yeah, don;t feel bad for not being able to place those two :smalltongue:.

[Raistlin1040]

Also Poison and Motley Crue have very little in common aside from the looks. Motley Crue is actually, y'know, TALENTED.

Compare this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4qVJnhZwWY) with THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDWxf5qkAIs).

[zeratul]

Also Poison and Motley Crue have very little in common aside from the looks. Motley Crue is actually, y'know, TALENTED.

They're pretty similar in sound, Poison aside from lyrics was very similar to Motley Crue (although there is of course a fair amount of difference in sound within glam) Poison actually had some good solos, and decent vocals and drumming, it was mainly that they had hilariously cheesy/bad lyrics. Of course this probably belongs in the metal thread.

[Raistlin1040]

Probably.

I'd say, with the atmosphere of the band, and the lyrics, and the sound, on the whole, Motley Crue was closer to Guns N' Roses than Poison or Great White, or those bands.

[Ms.Malbolge]

It probably does.

And yeah, the lyrics were pretty awful.

Though the first time I listened to 'Love On the Rocks' I couldn't stop giggling.

Edit: I actually liked some Great White when I was younger. :smallsigh:

[zeratul]

I'd say that motley especially in songs like "Girls Girls Girls" "Home Sweet Home" "Wild Side" and such were pretty much straightup galm metal although with slightly less pop than glam bands like poison. There were more metal glam bands as well though (Skid Row was probably the heaviest, Warrant was also eventually a very heavy band).

[Raistlin1040]

Well, I sort of hate Bret Michaels with a burning passion.

I don't know. You've got a point, there's a reason they're both Glam Metal. I think Vince Neil is a much better singer than Bret Michaels, Mick Mars is a good guitar player, Nikki Sixx can write lyrics and play bass well, and Tommy Lee can actually drum. I think Poison concentrated on the Glam Look too much, and neglected the Hard Rock/Metal music, whereas Motley Crue concentrated on both. You can really hear the Metal in like, Live Wire, Kickstart My Heart, and songs like that.

[Ms.Malbolge]

I always thought of Poison as the Nickelback of the 80's.


I.E.: A popular clone-type band cashing in on the glam metal popularity of the time while actually having little in the way of talent.

Now I have 'Love on the Rocks' stuck in my head.

Excuse me while I go get a power drill.

[zeratul]

Well, I sort of hate Bret Michaels with a burning passion.

I don't know. You've got a point, there's a reason they're both Glam Metal. I think Vince Neil is a much better singer than Bret Michaels, Mick Mars is a good guitar player, Nikki Sixx can write lyrics and play bass well, and Tommy Lee can actually drum. I think Poison concentrated on the Glam Look too much, and neglected the Hard Rock/Metal music, whereas Motley Crue concentrated on both. You can really hear the Metal in like, Live Wire, Kickstart My Heart, and songs like that.

Yeah only really ever listen to Poison for the laughs, but they actually do have some really good solos now and then. I'd say most of their talent was in the guitars. I agree with basically everything you said though, Motley is better than poison in every way, and Poison was far to focused on being glam, although Motley was very focused on that as well Motley succeeded in making very good music in the process. There was a fair amount of good glam though, while motley was probably one of the best, the really good ones were probably Warrant, Skid Row, Quiet Riot, Motley Crue, W.A.S.P. (if you count them as glam), Ratt, and Twisted Sister.

EDIT: Oh and Bon Jovi! Sometimes anyway, they had their ups and downs, wanted dead or alive is a great song though.

[Raistlin1040]

Skid Row's good, Ratt's good, W.A.S.P's good. Don't know much about the others. Dokken gets lumped into Glam, but they weren't really, but they're awesome too.

Eh. Bon Jovi's ok. They're REALLY hit or miss with me though.

[zeratul]

Skid Row's good, Ratt's good, W.A.S.P's good. Don't know much about the others. Dokken gets lumped into Glam, but they weren't really, but they're awesome too.

I only know Dokken via my slight knowledge of George Lynch, but I know that they at least had a fantastic guitarist.

[Raistlin1040]

Yes. George Lynch is a badass.

[Ms.Malbolge]

Ahem. Fleetwood Mac is coming to Tulsa.

*clears throat*

"SQEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!"

That is all.

[sean o the dead]

any fans of jane's addiction?

i just discovered them the other day, and now i feel guilty for not knowing about them back when they actually toured...:smallfrown:

also, what genre would they be under?

(im trying hard to ressurect the thread here...)

[Semidi]

any fans of jane's addiction?

i just discovered them the other day, and now i feel guilty for not knowing about them back when they actually toured...:smallfrown:

also, what genre would they be under?

(im trying hard to ressurect the thread here...)

I'd say Jane's Addiction is alternative when alternative was still alternative. I am a big Jane's addiction fan. They're not everyone's cup of tea, but yeah, I love them a lot. Nothing's Shocking and Ritual De Lo Habitual are two of my favorite albums.

[sean o the dead]

apologies, my internet is giving me problems :smallfurious:

the only album i have is strays. i like it, but it seems to have more slower songs. not that that's a bad thing.