Gestalt Warrior Arena Test

[Lyndworm]

A towering figure in a dark robe enters the room where you have been milling around sizing up the competition. His face is completely obscured by his hood. He raises both hands to get your attention and speaks in a deep voice.
Sam, Camael. You have been chosen to fight. Prepare yourselves!
With that he brings his hands down and the two of you find yourself transported to the arena (http://excessivefreetime.org/arena/arena3.html)

OOC:
You've got time for one swift action and one standard action before you get transported in case you need to adopt a stance or activate an item.

On the map, green is open terrain, yellow is difficult terrain, red/brown is the cliffs (10ft, Climb DC20, blocks LoS). Arena has a 60 foot ceiling.

Opening post should have an initiative roll, anything you said after he called your name and what, if anything you did with the 'surprise round' before being transported. After that, start fighting in initiative order.

Sam
Starts at J5
Camael
Starts at AC38
Zack

[Talic]

Initiative: [roll0]

Arena link is broken.

Surprise round: Standard: Activate Ring of invisibility
Swift: Assume Stance: Hearing the Air

Status: Items in hand: Eversmoking Bottle in one, Javelin in the other

Maneuvers Readied: Dazing Strike, Disarming Strike, Steely Strike, Iron Heart Surge, Iron Heart Endurance

[Lyndworm]

Fixed. Sorry.

Zack

[Talic]

For Cliff terrain, I assume it's elevated terrain. If so, how elevated? If not, can I get a clarification for LOS/mobility purposes?

[Lyndworm]

Let's call it at 10ft.

Zack

[Talic]

Fair enough. Blocks LOS, can be gotten with a respectable jump check. Climb DC 20?

Otherwise, waitin' on mah opponent.

[Vox Clamantis]

Nevermind!

~Gabriel

[Talic]

Nevermind, as in calling match, or as in disregard your post?

I hope it's the latter. If so, waiting on initiative.

For syntax, roll format is: 1d20+6
If you have an initiative mod of +6.

[Lyndworm]

Fair enough. Blocks LOS, can be gotten with a respectable jump check. Climb DC 20?

Indeed. Sorry it's taken me so long to reply. I'll let you guys get to it, then.

Zack

[Vox Clamantis]

The winged figure in the corner of the antechamber draws his sword with a sigh and prepares himself for battle. Whatever reason Barachiel may have had for sending a participant to this challenge, it must have been a noble one.

OOC:

[roll0]+3

Swift action to activate Aura of Perfect Order. Also readying to take wing as soon as teleport initiates (in order to begin flying).

~Gabriel

[Talic]

Nice. That gives you a standard action to move after the teleport, and puts you at the top of initiative for next round. Feel free. Spoiler any actions that I wouldn't know.

My swift action was to activate a stance.
My standard action was to activate Ring of Invisibility.

This is assuming we were drinkin' a couple beers at the same table prior to being teleported.

[Vox Clamantis]

The ageless soldier brings his wings down the moment he feels himself begin to teleport, springing 40 feet off the ground in a single motion.

OOC

Uncertain whether I can see anyone from up there...

~Gabriel

P.S. NVM, you ninja! If we were in the same room, would I have seen you activate the ring?

[Talic]

I'll assume you can, though I see no reason you would know my stance (though it's reasonable to know I did activate one).

Though you won't have LOS to me, I may have it to you, as you're pretty high in the air.

EDIT: I'll never post something out of spoilers unless it's for you to know. :)

[Vox Clamantis]

Ignore.

~Gabriel

[Talic]

Your turn is actually over. Readied actions give you a standard action, no more. After that, your initiative changes to that number (which, for all purposes, is 23), and play proceeds to me.

In this case, that action was to take to the air, which makes your post 14 invalid.

[Vox Clamantis]

Your turn is actually over. Readied actions give you a standard action, no more. After that, your initiative changes to that number (which, for all purposes, is 23), and play proceeds to me.

In this case, that action was to take to the air, which makes your post 14 invalid.

That's what I thought, but you said that it moved me to the top of initiative at the next round (which a readied action wouldn't normally do).

I sortof assumed you knew something I didn't. :smalltongue:

~Gabriel

[Lyndworm]

@Talic:
You are unable to see your opponent form your current position.
Zack

[Talic]

When I said next round, I meant round 2 of the match. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

My actions:

Free: Shout: Welcome to my parlor!
(sound coming from northwest quadrant of map)
Standard: Activate Eversmoking bottle. My pendant should protect me from the environmental effects of thick smoke.
Free: Drop bottle at J5/K6 intersection (as center of spread effects occurs at intersections.
Move: from J5 to L5 (10 feet)
Hiding while moving: [roll0] +20 more for invis
Moving Silently: [roll1]

NOTE: I have the darkstalker feat. This means that the following abilities cannot be used to automatically locate me: Scent, Tremorsense, Blindsense, Blindsight. Spot and listen must be rolled, subject to limitations (such as the lack of visibility provided by smoke.

NOTE2: Hearing the Air stance grants me Blindsense, 30 feet. This means that if an opponent moves within 30 feet of me (and does not have darkstalker), I will automatically know the 5 foot square they are in, no rolls necessary. This works without sight, and so will still function in heavy smoke.

A massive bubble of thick smoke billows out from the intersection at J5 and K6, travelling 50 feet in all directions (including up), and completely obscuring sight within it.

Yeah, ranged attacker that blinds himself. Odd, I know. But I need to ensure concealment, and this grants enough that my exact location should be obscured from you.

That's all for my turn.

Location for anyone providing LOS:L5. Hide and move silent in this post. Invisible, within a smoke cloud.
Darkstalker feat applies.
Blindsense 30 feet applies.

There is currently no LOS, I'm relatively sure of that. You're welcome to go.

[Vox Clamantis]

Seeing an indication of where his opponent is, the confident victor of uncounted battles since time immemorial swoops down to land at the origin of the cloud, preparing to smite the foes of Elysium.

OOC:

What I do with my standard and quick actions depends on what's creating the effect and whether it can continue to function within my 20-foot Protective Aura, which acts as a Lesser Globe of Invulnerability. If it's a spell that was cast before I arrived, it continues to function, but if it's a continuous spell-like effect or ability of less than 4th level, it gets shut down as long as it's within the aura.

~Gabriel

[Talic]

Neither. It's an Eversmoking Bottle, which creates nonmagical smoke. If you've got the movement to get all the way to the square that the effect is originating from, and descend to ground level, I'll give you specifics on it.

EDIT: Oh, and to keep things moving, at the start of each of my turns, I'll reveal my location to you. I'll also ask a couple questions, and we'll go from there.

[Vox Clamantis]

I don't mean to be a rules lawyer, but nothing in the description of Eversmoking bottle says the smoke is non-magical, and the item itself is made with Pyrotechnics, which is a 2nd level spell that produces the same effects. That sounds like the bottle is continuously renewing a low-level spell to me...

~Gabriel

[Talic]

Firstly, it's not. However, it is a spell like effect created from an item. Globe does include that. So, we can conclude that the bottle will not function while in the globe.

However, the smoke does not behave as the Pyrotechnics spell. The pyrotechnics spell has the smoke disappear after a set duration. This smoke remains and "dissipates normally". Which indicates that while the effect is similar to pyrotechnics, the smoke is permanent until dissipated.

It behaves, once created, like natural smoke. Thus, while the effect that creates the smoke is certainly magical, there's no evidence to suggest that the smoke, once created, remains so. The smoke isn't listed having any magical properties, and so we must conclude that it has none.

What this would mean is that while the bottle would not continue to expand the globe of smoke in a globe of invulnerability, the aura you have will not dissipate the smoke, as it is listed to "dissipate normally".

[Vox Clamantis]

Also, forgot to roll something:


[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

To determine which of my Crusader maneuvers are available.
6 = White Raven Hammer
5 = Shield Counter
4 = War Leader's Charge
3 = Divine Surge
2 = Radiant Charge
1 = Castigating Strike

~Gabriel

[Vox Clamantis]

Have to reroll.


[roll0]
Duplicate 1s last time.


~Gabriel

[Talic]

You are entitled to a spot check, provided you moved to L6, incidentally, even in the smoke.

[Vox Clamantis]

Have to reroll AGAIN. :smallfrown:


[roll0]
Duplicate 1s last time.

1 = Shield Counter
2 = Divine Surge
3 = Radiant Charge


~Gabriel

[Talic]

And a listen check.

[Vox Clamantis]

You are entitled to a spot check, provided you moved to L6, incidentally, even in the smoke.

Hah. Anybody who brings an Everysmoking Bottle and then argues that the smoke is non-magical is going to have a ridiculous Hide modifier. :smalltongue:

I concur that the smoke stops being produced so long as the bottle is within the aura and that the smoke dissipates normally, but I disagree that the smoke is non-magical. As the product of a magical item, the smoke is necessarily magical.

Back in character:

Believing that the smoke is magical in origin, Camael invokes his angelic power in an attempt to dispel the sorcerous fog and reveal his enemy.

Dispel Magic (spell-like ability)
[roll0]

~Gabriel

P.S. Regardless of what we argue out of character, Camael would be firmly convinced of his ability to dispel the smoke. After all, from his perspective it appeared out of nowhere, which is the sure sign of magical somethingorother.

[Talic]

Hide modifier is actually +47, move silently +33.

Question. Do you have the Darkstalker feat? (or another ability that negates blindsense?)

Further, While your angel may not know the nature of the fog, he would know the nature of his abilities. Dispel magic is a 3rd level spell. It would not function in his globe.

[Vox Clamantis]

Hide modifier is actually +47, move silently +33.

Question. Do you have the Darkstalker feat?

Further, While your angel may not know the nature of the fog, he would know the nature of his abilities. Dispel magic is a 3rd level spell. It would not function in his globe.

Are you kidding? It's a natural angelic aura. To say that his own spell-like abilities don't function in his own aura is completely absurd.

~Gabriel

P.S. To explain that position better, the protective aura is listed under general Angel Traits. It is not a spell-like ability, it's a supernatural racial trait, and it is constant and permanent unless dispelled (whereupon it can be reestablished as a free action). There would be no point in giving any of the angelic beings spell-like abilities if their permanent racial aura were going to interfere with them.

[Talic]

The racial aura provides the effects of a Globe of invulnerability, correct?

That means that any spell or spell like effect of 4th level or less cast that covers an area within that aura is supressed. Regardless of source. This means, among other things:

Stat enhancement items don't work for either party (based off second level spells).
Rings of Invisibility don't work for either party, nor does any effect based off the invisibility spell or greater invisibility.
Dispel Magic does not work for either party.

All of these effects are in place. However, you can target areas outside the globe just fine. But globe of invulnerability does not distinguish between friend or foe. It suppresses everything equally.

If that supernatural racial trait is identical to a globe of invulnerability, then it supresses all spell like effects, not just all spell like effects you choose. That's why they give you the option to suppress it. I do believe active suppression of an ability is a standard action.

[Vox Clamantis]

Just re-read the entry on Globe of Invulnerability, and it says both spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like abilities manifested by items are not influenced by its power.

So the bottle still functions within the aura, but the spell-like abilities work just fine.

Now the question is whether smoke magically created by an item can be dispelled.

~Gabriel

[Lyndworm]

I'm ruling that the smoke is non-magical, but the eversmoking bottle itself is not. So if you were to create an AMF around an (unstoppered) eversmoking bottle it would halt production of smoke, but the already existing smoke would linger. (For example.)

This means that the smoke cannot be dispelled. However, the eversmoking bottle can be dispelled, stopping it from producing more smoke for 1d4 rounds.

Zack

[Talic]

Just re-read the entry on Globe of Invulnerability, and it says both spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like abilities manifested by items are not influenced by its power.

So the bottle still functions within the aura, but the spell-like abilities work just fine.

Now the question is whether smoke magically created by an item can be dispelled.

~Gabriel


spell: An immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere surrounds you and excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower. The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the lesser globe of invulnerability. Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe. Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items. However, any type of spell can be cast through or out of the magical globe. Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast. The globe can be brought down by a targeted dispel magic spell, but not by an area dispel magic. You can leave and return to the globe without penalty.
So, it excludes spells, and excluded effects include items and SLA's (bold) However, spells already in effect are not affected by the globe. (underline)

So spells and effects from items that are already in effect are not affected by the Globe. This means that invisibility (mine) that was already functioning remains so, as with the smoke. This also includes continuous items, such as stat boost items and stuff, continue to function (they're already in effect when the globe hits them). We'll go with, the bottle doesn't work, and Land's already ruled that the smoke won't dispel, so that should be your turn.

Question: Do you have any abilities or feats that prevent the extraordinary special quality (Blindsense) from functioning? My current stance (Hearing the Air) grants it.

[Vox Clamantis]

Question: Do you have any abilities or feats that prevent the extraordinary special quality (Blindsense) from functioning? My current stance (Hearing the Air) grants it.

Nope.

~Gabriel

[Talic]

Ok. My action:

If he's ground level in K5, by my smoke bottle, as he said, then he's 5 feet away. I'll move 20 feet back, to P5. Now I'm 25 feet away. I still have him pinpointed, via blindsense.

Hide: -5 for Moving over 1/2 movement, +20 for invis.
Move Silent: [roll1] -5 for moving over 1/2 movement.

Provided I am not detected (smoke blocks vision, so we both have total concealment, I am going to Snipe. Per Master Sniper ability, I can make one or more attacks, then hide as a free action afterwards, at a -10 penalty, instead of a -20.

Using the following tricks from Master Thrower: Weak spot, Deadeye shot.

This attack is resolved as a touch attack, but I don't add my strength bonus to damage:

Attack:[roll]1d20+ +1 for point blank shot, +2 for invis
If hits: (physical) + [roll3] Fire + [roll4] Acid +2 (if target is flat footed)
If threat: [roll]1d20+ +1 Point blank, +2 invis, +2 Crit confirmation bonus
If crit: [roll5] (x3 crit modifier) +4 (if target is flat footed)

Weapon property: Seeking allows me to ignore the miss chance for concealment, provided I'm aiming at the right square (I am, as the square is pinpointed).

After attack, Hide check: [roll6] -10 for sniping

[Talic]

Rolls broken, rerolling broken rolls:Attack: [roll0]
If threat: [roll1]

This is a touch attack, and I should have a +1 for being within 30 feet, and another +2 for being invisible. Further, unless my opponent has uncanny dodge and at least 8 rogue levels, he's flat footed (blind fight isn't enough, it only applies to melee attacks).

EDIT: Natural 1, attack misses.

Results of my turn: a javelin was thrown at you, but missed.

[Vox Clamantis]

OOC:

I really didn't intend on using the spell-like abilities at all, but this Eversmoking Bottle thing is so cheesy that my inhibitions are falling fast.

IC:

You hear a pure voice shout a single word in a Celestial tongue, and the world falls silent.

If you are within 40 ft of my current position, you fall deaf for [roll0] rounds. There is no save. I believe that your martial blindsense aura relies upon your ability to hear, yes?


That was Holy Word, which I can use at-will as a spell-like ability. After pronouncing the word, I take to the air and fly to L24.

~Gabriel

[Vox Clamantis]

Didn't roll for some reason.

That's

[roll0]

rounds.

~Gabriel

[Talic]

I don't mean to be a rules lawyer, but nothing in the description of Hearing the Air states that the blindsense it grants is based on hearing.

It references multiple senses, combat ability, and ability to predict my opponent's moves as what is granting the sense.

On a side note, you're criticizing my use of an item that obscures sight and a martial stance as cheesy, and throwing, so far:
Magic Circle, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, Dispel Magic...
As best I can guess, Holy Word (based on the angelic theme, and my narrowing of possible creatures that you are down to 1, taking into account your aura).

In under 2 rounds... in a Warrior arena. Think that an average of 2 spells a round qualifies as perhaps just a bit outside the spirit of the arena? Just saying, before you criticize my martial stances and magic items.

Even so, it's no big deal. I'll take deafened. Because there's not a chance you're going to find me. Your spells can draw it to a tie, but they can't give you the W, if all you're doing is deafening me.

My turn. provided you're outside of 20 feet of the bottle, the 50' radius sphere goes to 60' radius.J5/K6 intersection is the start. This means that now, it extends to V5 and V6, and J17 and K17, and now touches the ceiling. If this is not correct, then let me know that you are within 20 feet of ground level J5/K6.

Otherwise, my action:Free Action: Activate Boots of Speed for htis round. I gain a +30 ft enhancement bonus to movement.
Standard action: Activate Iron Heart Surge. End Deafness effect.
Move to K18. I am on the border of the fog, and can now see outside of it. I am still in a fog square, so I benefit from concealment which allows me to hide.
Hide:[roll0] -5 for movement over 1/2.
Move Silent: [roll1] -5 for movement ofer 1/2.

This makes 2 maneuvers gone (Steely strike, Iron heart surge). 1st one sacrificed for returning feature.

I'd upload the map, modified, but unfortunately, MSPaint doesn't recognize html files.

Done. Could use LOS from a neutral party.

[Adumbration]

OOC: I've found that pressing Print Screen and then copying it to Paint works quite well.

[Talic]

Thanks for that tip.

Screen limitations force me to cut off the last 2 lines of the map. Unless you flew really south, it shouldn't matter. I've updated the map to add in a sphere on it. Anything in the sphere has thick smoke.

Updated map:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w85/maharai23/Arena31.jpg

[Vox Clamantis]

I don't mean to be a rules lawyer, but nothing in the description of Hearing the Air states that the blindsense it grants is based on hearing.

It references multiple senses, combat ability, and ability to predict my opponent's moves as what is granting the sense.

This is idiotic. For one thing, it's called Hear the Air. For another, it gives you a bonus to your Listen check, but not to Spot or Search. It explicitly relies upon hearing. You are the most dishonest player I've ever encountered.

I am withdrawing from this match. You have a munchkin build that relies upon exploiting the Hide mechanics, and you seem determined to interpret every word of the RAW to protect your ability to do that. This experience has not even been interesting, much less fun.

Since you seem ignorant to the difference, cheese exploits a particular rule to break the game. Optimizing simply increases the combat statistics of the character. My character is optimized. He could function in a thousand different situations, with any given equipment, against any foe. Yours is just pure cheese. The difference is not hard to perceive.

I will not be returning to this thread to read whatever reply you cook up, so save yourself the time.

~Gabriel

[Talic]

I don't appreciate the "I'm gonna yell at you then ignore you" mentality. Doesn't cast you in the best light.

First, stealth characters need methods to protect their stealth. That, I did.

Second, you tried to incorrectly interpret the smoke bottle as "recasting" itself every turn. It activates when unstoppered, and continues to function until stoppered with a command word. As it was unstoppered while outside of your aura, it would have fallen under the clause of "spell effects already in effect are unaffected". Lesser Globe of invulnerability is not an AMF. It does not behave like one. You tried to bludgeon that it makes pre-existing magical effects wink out. It was not RAW, and so I disputed it.

While the Hearing the Air maneuver does not specifically state that it uses hearing, I gave that one to you. Primarily because of the fluff text of the ability, and the insight bonus to listen checks. It made it seem RAI common sense.

Now, my character had roughly 50% of his WBL tied up solely in equipment that boosts his ability to not be detected. (Greater silent moves armor, Gloves of Dex, Eversmoking Bottle, Ring of invisibility). Further, he has 11 levels in classes that provide hide as a class skill, and took it at double cost the last 4 levels. He has several feats that enhance stealth. His race is based on stealth. His racial sub. levels are based on stealth. All are taken to do exactly what they are intended to do. I didn't have phenomenal damage (1d4+2 physical, and 2d6 energy per hit, on average).

You wouldn't call a barbarian based character a munchkin for optimizing strength. Why on earth do you call a rogue based character a munchkin for optimizing hide? ESPECIALLY when doing it costs that character damage? While in that smoke, I'm out 8d6 sneak attack per hit.

Many arena characters have enough damage output to wipe out a character in one hit. Others have AC so high, most characters need a 20 to hit them.

Mine was designed to not be seen. That's all. If you expect your opponents to be powerless at 15th level, I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way.

If you want to call "munchkin" because your character has no defense against it, that's on you.

You had the ability to pick up abilities that generate wind. You had the ability to smash the bottle on the ground. You could have just stayed up higher/farther away.

But no. You got cocky, you had difficulty finding me, and you got frustrated, and called me a munchkin and left.

In most circles, that is what's known as "poor sportsmanship".