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Yulian
2008-11-17, 01:42 AM
This is a good board for this (the only one, I think).

I usually run games for my RL gaming group and, after a healthy hiatus, we're going to be playing a short Ghostbusters RPG game, then I'll pick up again.

I'd been tossing around the idea of trying to run a game based on Transformers, taking a bit more from the comics than the cartoon, since there's more history, spirituality, and character development.

The problem is, what system would be good for this? I need one that allows for stat and even "power" shuffling in an easy fashion, one that allows for characters that are physically rather formidable but can still be hurt or killed in a fight, and that has a good skill system for specialized skills like sciences, piloting, espionage, the whole deal.

Any system that also has conversions of FCs online would be nice, too.

So, ideas?

- Yulian

axraelshelm
2008-11-17, 01:56 AM
Gurps has always been a one size fits all system so I would reconmend it just give your player more points to play with and make sure all the other races that aren't transforming robots small physical stats.

Transform and roll OUT!!!

Gaiwecoor
2008-11-17, 06:38 AM
I'll suggest Mutants and Masterminds, as I haven't had much experience with anything else that would fit. Their power-point system makes it easy to swap physical attributes for powers, the Toughness Save to resist damage can be low despite impressive physical stats, and there is remarkably little descriptive text for the powers - thus allowing them to fit pretty much whatever you want (some people get hung up on the descriptive text). It even has rules for transformative powers :smallwink:

(And why does Firefox say "transformative" is misspelled? It's in my dictionary :smallconfused:)

YPU
2008-11-17, 10:05 AM
Mekton zeta is perfect, I repeat PERFECT for this. It is for sale online by rpgnow.com and the likes of that. It has relatively simple character building rules, with all the skills you describe incorporated (with the same name sometimes even) and the system is simple but effective. However the system really shines when it comes to building mecha, the core book is nice but when you add the zeta plus book (you really should) you can build any, and I mean any mecha you can think of. Including any sort of transformable mecha. Also, if you happen to have any questions on the system please do PM me.

Project_Mayhem
2008-11-17, 10:17 AM
I'd second M&M. I've rarely found anything that you can't simply emulate.

You'd start with a high level character based on the robot archetype, with a transform power.

turkishproverb
2008-11-17, 10:27 AM
Mekton zeta is perfect, I repeat PERFECT for this. It is for sale online by rpgnow.com and the likes of that. It has relatively simple character building rules, with all the skills you describe incorporated (with the same name sometimes even) and the system is simple but effective. However the system really shines when it comes to building mecha, the core book is nice but when you add the zeta plus book (you really should) you can build any, and I mean any mecha you can think of. Including any sort of transformable mecha. Also, if you happen to have any questions on the system please do PM me.

Seconded, and incidentally where were you when I started my Mekton zeta campaign? :smallwink:


I'd second M&M. I've rarely found anything that you can't simply emulate.

You'd start with a high level character based on the robot archetype, with a transform power.

Ok, I'm getting a little confused by the sheer amount people bring this system up. It is good, but it isn't perfect for any setting.

YPU
2008-11-17, 11:07 AM
I was trying to work hard for a school I later decided to quit. Its one of the many things on the list of stuff I missed because of that. But do PM me when you start a new one or need another player.

MnM is very good, and it also makes a great framework for building your own setting, even with classes or the like. (I have many ideas on that actually, I might make a treat about it.)
But its not very good for mecha’s rpgs actually, that one of the few things I found hard to make in MnM. Why? Every machine gun is a rapid fire blast. Ammo is not very well represented either. But its still a great system. But for transformers go mekton zeta, for sure.

UserClone
2008-11-17, 08:51 PM
I own, but have never gotten a chance to try, Mechamorphosis (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/hr05.html). While I can't vouch for whether it plays well or not, it seems through a reading of it, to have everything you need, along with a good idea of how to homebrew further "stuff".

OverdrivePrime
2008-11-17, 11:56 PM
There's the d20 mecha system, which is actually pretty darn good.

Otherwise I think it'd be entertaining to homebrew the bejezus out of the Werewolf game. Vehicle mode = Lupus, Crinos = Full transfomation, rage = high on energon cubes...

Yulian
2008-11-17, 11:57 PM
Hmm...I have a good number of GURPS books (but not Robots, interesting) but I do have Shapeshifters. If I get Robots, does anyone know if it has a base template that would work for Cybertronians?

I have access to M&M as well...not sure. I like point buy and hit point based systems, by and large. Also, would I have to scale the basic characters way up to represent how powerful a Transformer is compared to a human?

I know nothing of Mekton Zeta. Does it allow you to mesh the "pilot" and "mech"? That's what I'd need to do. The machine is the character so needs all the mech traits plus all the character skills.

- Yulian

Artanis
2008-11-18, 12:25 AM
Check out BESM. It's practically purpose-built for the most of the sort of things you mention.

ken-do-nim
2008-11-18, 12:28 AM
I'm sure some of these other rpgs I've never heard of would do fine, but back in the 80s we almost started playing Transformers using Marvel Super Heroes rules. We had fun statting them out. I think Optimus Prime can take on Thor any day of the week.

Leewei
2008-11-18, 01:17 AM
I used to own GURPS robots. It didn't lend itself well to the sort of campaign you have in mind. It was ideal for Terminator type scenarios, or heavily-detailed space opera. GURPS Supers would be more ideal for Transformers.

YPU
2008-11-18, 06:29 AM
Yes, mekton has all the rules you need for AI robots, tough they suggest in the book that one can better use a normal character hardwired into the mech (best control method) as a representative for a mecha brain. Mekton is wholly point build and has any and all sort of weapons. You want a beam sword that can be reconfigured into a beam shield and has a shotgun in the handle, can be build without a pain! I’m not all that well known with transformers, but they are self regenerating IIRC yes? Mekton has the rules. Oh and don’t be fooled by the mecha theme name. I have played tank war games using the same rules and it worked fine, you can stat any vehicle from body suit power armor up to planet sized spacehips.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-11-18, 01:38 PM
When I hear 80's cartoons, I think Mutants & Masterminds. When I heard 80's cartoons about Japanese toys, I think BESM. Either one works.

turkishproverb
2008-11-18, 09:26 PM
There's the d20 mecha system, which is actually pretty darn good.

Otherwise I think it'd be entertaining to homebrew the bejezus out of the Werewolf game. Vehicle mode = Lupus, Crinos = Full transfomation, rage = high on energon cubes...

Well, nice to see I'm not the only one who knows about d20 Mecha.

Yulian
2008-11-18, 09:30 PM
I never really liked BESM, too broad, in a way. I want more crunch.

Pity about GURPS Robots, but I do have Supers and IST, even Wild Cards. Yes, I dig on GURPS Supers stuff.

Maybe merging that with Shapeshifters might work.

Never played Mekton, if I can get it cheap I may have a look at it.

That Mechamorphs thing is...odd. It's basically Transformers, but you have to drastically scale down everything to make it work in D20. I want a system where you can just make up whatever, from human to TF and go. I want my players to actually be able to enjoy playing something powerful. They're very good. First New World of Darkness game I ran had them as regular people. So I can trust them with Transformers.

So, what more about Mekton can you tell me? Are the machines you can make a good match up? Fast, self-healing, able to use skills, able to juggle stats and abilities for different forms well? That last bit's vital. If you become a jet, your movement score rockets upwards, but you may lose some armour and have no hands. If you become oh...some sort of audio device, a whole host of communications abilities open up, but your movement drops to 0. Can it do that sort of thing?

How about mass shifting?

- Yulian

turkishproverb
2008-11-18, 09:35 PM
I never really liked BESM, too broad, in a way. I want more crunch.

Pity about GURPS Robots, but I do have Supers and IST, even Wild Cards. Yes, I dig on GURPS Supers stuff.

Maybe merging that with Shapeshifters might work.

Never played Mekton, if I can get it cheap I may have a look at it.

That Mechamorphs thing is...odd. It's basically Transformers, but you have to drastically scale down everything to make it work in D20. I want a system where you can just make up whatever, from human to TF and go. I want my players to actually be able to enjoy playing something powerful. They're very good. First New World of Darkness game I ran had them as regular people. So I can trust them with Transformers.

So, what more about Mekton can you tell me? Are the machines you can make a good match up? Fast, self-healing, able to use skills, able to juggle stats and abilities for different forms well? That last bit's vital. If you become a jet, your movement score rockets upwards, but you may lose some armour and have no hands. If you become oh...some sort of audio device, a whole host of communications abilities open up, but your movement drops to 0. Can it do that sort of thing?

How about mass shifting?

- Yulian

Mekton is your best bet (short of cobbling multiple d20 sources together) for pretty much everything you listed except mass shifting, which will require house ruling for any system.

YPU
2008-11-19, 03:53 AM
Mass shifting as in changing size in a significant way? I think it has it under silly mekton tricks. Mind you if you want to do all tat stuff you will need both the base book and the plus book, but it will be worth it.

UserClone
2008-11-19, 05:00 PM
Mechamorphosis has mass/size changing built in. I didn't understand your comment about it - what would you have to scale down?

Artanis
2008-11-19, 05:33 PM
He may be referring to the Transformers' tendancy to change overall size when they transform. Megatron is probably the biggest culprit, going from his normal size to a pistol of the same scale.

Yulian
2008-11-20, 01:08 AM
Mechamorphosis has mass/size changing built in. I didn't understand your comment about it - what would you have to scale down?

According to the Mechamorphosis preview, you can't use standard D20 characters as they are. You need to divide lots of stuff by 10 or change measurements for lifting capacity, or lower damage done by non-machine characters, I don't even want to know about AC.

I want a system where I can just make a human, or slap on a lot more points and make a Transformer and not have to worry about scaling anything. A 30 foot tall TF should do a lot of damage when it hits something. I want the stats to be just the stats, without having to scale up or down depending on who's doing something. If a human hits a door with a bat, they do X amount of damage, if a Transformer hits the same door, they do X*12 or whatever because they're rolling a lot of damage die. I don't need the extra bookkeeping, considering tons of stuff will have alt modes for me to keep track of.

So...Mekton Zeta. I may have to at least take a look. So you can basically "splice" a PC into a mech with that system?

Anyone also know anywhere that may have some pre-gen Transformer FCs? Save me a lot of work, I already have an atlas of Cybertron and a lot of history notes.

- Yulian

Lert, A.
2008-11-20, 01:34 AM
So...Mekton Zeta. I may have to at least take a look. So you can basically "splice" a PC into a mech with that system?

You will have to make your own scaling system to some extent. Mekton measures damage on a scale of 1-20. Your powerful attacks - like a Megatron full power shot - will be closer to the 20 mark, while the regular guns and such will be probably be at the 7-8 level or something like that. Just decide if you want to go with 1=1d6 or 2d12 or whatever you want to scale it as.

Armor is measured in kills, but you can just say that 1 kill = 50hp or 200, etc. There are also options for DR and pretty much any trick you can think of, including what is basically a "charge x cost for whatever you want that isn't in this book" trick.

Mekton Zeta (+) would be your best bet. A lot of gaming stores have a copy floating around.

YPU
2008-11-20, 05:10 AM
ah, lert I think your forgeting a few things.
yes damage works in "kills" each kill is 25 normal damage and the maximum on a standard weapon build is 20K so thats a lot of normal damage, and in scale HP of normal humans is not much diferent from DND So the lowest type of mecha weapon could probably still kill most humans.
but an attack can do more then 20K of damage. it could be a beam weapon with a infinite rapid fire option, that would mean the weapon does 20K of damage for every point of attack over the defence of the target. And then it could also be a mega beam, which would make it do its FULL damage to all locations instead of rolling for where it hits (or aiming for the head) but if you would allow that weapon to be fired each action and keep the normal range for the damage it would cost 1500 points a small batlecruiser spachip is less points then that gun alone.
On the cockpit thing. It would be easiest to simply build characters and give the mecha a “brain” which functions like a normal cockpit and use the stats that gives you. there are rules for many sorts of cockpits, and they do have stat changes, but its easier to assume every transformer has the same type of brain and thus simply use the normal cockpit. with normal mecha, a hardwired mecha would have a few more rerols per fight, but that would be reference with the other cockpits, transformers not having different grade’s of cockpits or brains it easiest to simply use “standard” cockpit rules, since every transformer will have them.

YPU
2008-11-20, 05:21 AM
Nevermind the above post actually, the following link has all the rule changes you will ever need for using mekton Z
http://www.meta-earth.com/tf/tf.html
(http://www.meta-earth.com/tf/tf.html)

turkishproverb
2008-11-20, 05:24 AM
Hm. I owe you a cookie for that link.

YPU
2008-11-20, 06:17 AM
@^ noted.

anyhow, I looked trough the site quick and there are a few things that i would have done diferently, or could be done simpler. If you decide to use mekton let us know and well help you with it.

Lert, A.
2008-11-20, 12:23 PM
ah, lert I think your forgeting a few things.

yes damage works in "kills" each kill is 25 normal damage and the maximum on a standard weapon build is 20K so thats a lot of normal damage, and in scale HP of normal humans is not much diferent from DND So the lowest type of mecha weapon could probably still kill most humans.

Didn't forget, just creatively ignored a few things for the sake of simplicity. Some of us would rather lead the OP to the books and give a few general ideas rather than overload him with technicalities that he won't even be able to understand without the books.:smalltongue:

As for the 1 Kill=25 Hits thing, it is still optional and + gives examples at to how to scale more evenly (even though it is in the advanced rules, it is simple to use). For HP it might work fine, but to fit Mekton into D&D you would want to make damage variable.

Yulian
2008-11-21, 02:28 AM
I will look for a cheap copy this weekend and see what's what.

- Yulian

turkishproverb
2008-11-21, 02:39 AM
I will look for a cheap copy this weekend and see what's what.

- Yulian

drivethrurpg has it.