What to do about my majorly underpowered character?

[Dr. Killjoy]

I'm currently in my first-ever D&D campaign with 4 other players, all of us level 23-24. When I joined the campaign about 6 sessions ago, everyone was 22-23. The upshot of this is that I had to create an epic-level character when the only nuances I knew about the game were those I'd picked up from reading OOTS. Luckily, I wasn't completely in the dark, because another player walked me through the process, helping me choose good skills, feats, equipment, etc. Because we had almost all spellcasters, with our only other strong physical fighter being a monk, I decided to create a ranger, who I intended to be a scout that would protect the spellcasters, while scoring a good amount of physical damage.

I wish.

My ranger was actually pretty useful in exploration. My good Knowledge (Geography) and Survival checks meant that we had little problem in wilderness or harsh conditions. The problem came in combat. The following factors make my ranger useless in 90% of all battles:

1) Creatures that, despite his +27 to hit on his best weapon, he needs a nat 20 to break their armor. An AC of 50 or more isn't uncommon. (In case you were wondering, they're mostly Paragon monsters) This has largely improved in recent sessions, where we more commonly face AC 30-40 monsters.

2) Creatures that get such massive plusses to hit that despite being stupidly expensive, his armor is useless (Again: Paragon)

3) Creatures that have attacks that force will saves with hideously high DCs (I've never come across one that was less than 30) when my will save bonus is 8. Failing these will saves often disables the victim for the rest of the battle.

4) Many of my spells are useless, even though I carefully chose the best possible ones to memorize. Does it really matter, for instance, what I call up with Summon Nature's Ally III if there's not a single one that can break through the enemy's armor?

5) Out of the 5 other party members (one player plays 2 characters), these 4 massively overpower my ranger: A rogue who can backstab opponents, resulting in insta-kills 90% of the time and has an absurd amount of magical items; and 3 spellcasters, each of which can kill or enslave DC 23-24 opponents in one hit, with spells powerful enough to overcome even enemies with high spell resistance and will saves 90% of the time.

6) In my 2nd session, all of the party was killed except for the rogue, and all of our equipment was destroyed. Though she managed to rescue our corpses and get us resurrected later, all of our money, magical items, and equipment were looted. I was left with no armor (the DM was "generous", though, and gave me a chain shirt that brought my AC up to a paltry 17), no weapons (the rogue, as much stuff as he was lugging around, managed to spare me a keen brilliant energy rapier. Uh, yay?), and no magical items. This brought my Dexterity down from 18 to 12, and knocked my strength (my best stat) down from 22 to 16 (meaning I got 4 d6+3 attacks. Yeah.) Keep in mind, this is in a party with at least one character who has an intelligence of 34.

The good news, though, is that in our last battle (against 3 DC24 enemies, which were killed before I got a chance to attack), I managed to get a spear with so many enhancements that it's worth over 4,000,000 gold. Better yet, it's a +5, so even though I don't have any feats for using spears, I'd still get a +1 to hit. But, hey. I need magical items and decent armor, so I figure I'll sell the spear.

Apparently, it's too expensive to sell. The session ended with the DM telling me I can't sell it because no one has the money for it - but not before trying to rip me off by saying I could sell it for 40,000. Just to give you an idea of what I'm dealing with here: I have a fellow party member who has a total of something like +30 to his appraise skill, who could easily tell me what the spear was worth. The problem? My ranger is NG, while the other party members are all the "good is dumb" CN/NE types who would rip me off or get rid of me if it was mildly convenient for them to do so. The solution? I paid to have it professionally appraised, which did the trick. The problem is, of course, that I still can't sell it.

The way I see it, my options are, in order of preference:

1) Find a way to get my money's worth for the spear, and attempt to get enough equipment to be a half-decent brawler.

2) Reason with the DM/other players and explain that their playing styles are screwing my chances of having any fun.

3) Kill off my ranger and build an absurdly powerful pure fighter.

4) Kill off my ranger and attempt to build a spellcaster that out-PunPuns PunPun himself.

5) Quit, dropping some sort of massive ingame bombshell before I do so.

6) Quit outright.

Any advice on what I should do?

[Stupendous_Man]

3) Kill off my ranger and build an absurdly powerful pure fighter.


Hey who on the what now?

[Yukitsu]

Seconded.

Other than that, see if he'll allow retraining from the PHB 2. Swap your classes to druid, and go to town. The classes are close enough together that the transition is simple, and you don't really need the cash.

[Eloel]

#2 is the one, just because you can't min/max doesn't mean you shouldn't have fun.

[Riffington]

See if you can retrain to get Favored Enemy: Cheese.

[Stupendous_Man]

+27 to hit is far too low. Please post your build.

[Deepblue706]

Hey who on the what now?

Well, there's always a Mounted Charger...

But yeah...Dr. Killjoy, Fighters aren't exactly great in epic play.

Talk to your DM and fellow players about the fun-factor. That's your best bet at seeing results.

[Eldariel]

Fact is that on Epic Levels, even if you had a properly build character (with To Hit in the mid-40s; 20 BAB+2 Epic BAB+12-15 Dex [Start at 18-20, put all your level-up points into it, get a +6 item and +5 book]+5 Weapon+Miscellaneous spellcaster buffs, such as Bless/Prayer/whatever), you wouldn't really contribute since your damage would be hideously small.

As far as spells go, all the PHB-ones are relatively crappy and you should really look into Spell Compendium and Player's Handbook II for real Ranger-spells that synergize with your combat (Arrow Mind, Hunter's Mercy, Hunter's Eye, Guided Shot, etc.), and multiclass 4 levels into a Scout picking up Swift Hunter to stack Ranger-levels for Skirmish progression. Add Ranged Skirmisher [see http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php for the feat - it's from Dragon Magazine]. That would get you sufficient power to deal damage in what sounds like a low-powered Epic game. Also, Mystic Ranger [Likewise on Crystalkeep, it's originally from Dragon Magazine] would get you better spellcasting and up to 5th level spells. Add to that Sword of the Arcane Order [Champions of Valor] to add Arcane spells to your list and you're good to go.

Mystic Ranger 17/Scout 3 with Swift Hunter [Complete Scoundrel], Improved Skirmish [Complete Scoundrel], Ranged Skirmisher, Darkstalker [Lords of Madness], Greater Manyshot [General feat from SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot)/XPH], Sword of the Arcane Order and Archery feats (PBS, Precise Shot, etc.) and all the Shooting Star Ranger substitution levels [Champions of Valor] would do decently with Hide In Plain Sight+Darkstalker, +7d6 Improved Skirmish-damage (and +7 AC) going into Agent Retriever (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClasses/agentRetriever.htm) on Epic. Then, spend your first Epic feats on 4 Improved Spell Capacities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedSpellCapacity) and then Epic Spellcasting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicSpellcasting) and immediately get 6 Epic Spells since you qualify for all 2, the Knowledges (don't forget to max them all though) and the arcane and divine casting (thanks to Sword of the Arcane Order). Then enjoy your newfound awesome.


Refer to:
The Swift Hunter's Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=854152) - for your pre-epic progression (use Ranger 17/Scout 3-variant though as it's better on Epic)
Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) for the important ability to switch Ranger-skills for the ones you need (Handle Animal for Gather Information, and Ride for Tumble)
Epic Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-740828) - for some nifty tricks on your epic career


With proper building, while not a full caster, you'll be a fine character on Epic, especially a game like that. Don't forget that your spellcasters can buff you with stuff like Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment and such - get a +1 Splitting [Champions of Ruin] Force Bow or a Splitting Energy Bow (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a298/animefunkmaster/EnergyBow.jpg) for real damage (Splitting gives you multiple attack rolls for extra Skirmish) and they buff it straight to +5. Same with armor and shield - get a +1 armor with some interesting abilities (such as Fortifications and Ghost Ward [Magic Item Compendium]) and Magic Vestment buffs them to +5 for the whole day.

Just ask for a rebuild and use these instructions and you should be relatively competitive (use Swift Hunter's favoured enemies to negate their critical immunity). Skills get really good on Epic, so max stuff like Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, Spellcraft [for Epic Spellcasting], Gather Information [for PrC qualifications], Tumble and the Knowledges of Arcana and Nature [for Epic Spellcasting] (and boost with items when applicable - Spot DC 80 means you can see through basically any Magic with your bare eyes). Survival isn't really needed as you can mostly Teleport around, but I suppose it could be helpful if the group is doing oldfashioned walking for some reason.

[RTGoodman]

Please post your build.

This. There should be no WAY for an Epic Ranger to (1) only have a +8 Will save; (2) only have a +27 attack; and (3) that little in the way of magic items, among other things. You're most definitely going to probably need some sort of re-build if you want to keep the same character, and Eldariel's advice is pretty good.

[Dr. Killjoy]

*Snip*

Wow. I must say, this is a very detailed reply. Thanks for putting so much effort into it, I'll try to apply this as well as I can.

[Eldariel]

Oh yeah, for your Will-save issue, get Mind Blank cast on you daily. It lasts 24 hours, so one casting is enough and your casters should be able to spare the slot (not to mention, on level 25, you gain the ability to cast it yourself as you gain 8th level slot from Improved Spell Capacity and can prepare an Arcane spell in it thanks to Sword of the Arcane Order). You can buy them a Pearl of Power for the appropriate level so they don't need to actually spend a slot on it.

It stops basically all Will-save targeting spells. You could also get Superior Resistance [Spell Compendium] cast on you (or cast it yourself - you get a 6th level slot on level 21 from first Improved Spell Capacity) for +6 on all saves. Add basic stat-based bonuses and you should be fairly fine. Since you've got very decent Dexterity already, I wouldn't worry about Reflex-saves, and get some Con and your high Fort-progression for Fortitude-saves.

EDIT: Also, when some opponents are immune to ranged damage, go melee with DC 40 Tumble-checks (Oriental Adventures defines, that allows you to take a 10' step so it activates Skirmish).

[Raum]

The way I see it, my options are, in order of preference:

1) Find a way to get my money's worth for the spear, and attempt to get enough equipment to be a half-decent brawler.Difficult if your cohorts and GM aren't cooperating. Best bet I can see is trying to sell it to a planar Power or even god. If you can, trade it for items of equivalent value when you do. Else you'll have similar issues purchasing items of the power you want.


2) Reason with the DM/other players and explain that their playing styles are screwing my chances of having any fun.Definitely let them know your thoughts. At the same point, don't expect them to change. You may need to adapt your style to the group's.


3) Kill off my ranger and build an absurdly powerful pure fighter.At the levels you're talking about a fighter will probably be worse off than the ranger. I'd suggest a ToB build if you want to stick with melee.


4) Kill off my ranger and attempt to build a spellcaster that out-PunPuns PunPun himself.Err, is your intent 'fun' or 'payback'? If it's fun, this could be a good option.


5) Quit, dropping some sort of massive ingame bombshell before I do so.Would the "bombshell" accomplish anything worthwhile?


6) Quit outright.Once not playing is more fun than playing and you don't see resolution to issues preventing fun, this becomes your best option. Up to you to decide when you reach that point.

[Zeta Kai]

Honestly, from what I read, it sounds like you're not experienced enough for epic play, & the DM is possibly screwing you. I'd quit, & find a better game somewhere else. I doubt it will get better if you're already suffering from equipment-rape.

[Vortling]

Honestly, from what I read, it sounds like you're not experienced enough for epic play, & the DM is possibly screwing you. I'd quit, & find a better game somewhere else. I doubt it will get better if you're already suffering from equipment-rape.

He could always roll a straight druid. Pick up Draconic Wildshape or another wildshape feat and go to town.

[Eldariel]

Actually, I just thought a bit more about the alternative class features. Here's a total list of what I suggest:

-Mystic Ranger (postpones most your class features by one level, lose animal companion, faster spell advancement)
-Shooting Star Ranger (the best you can use is lose Endurance; gains Weavespeak - ability to use Sending as a spell-like ability to reach the nearest Cleric/Paladin/Ranger of Mystra; +2 caster level; Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana) as class skills)
-Planar Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rangerVariantPlanarRan ger) (if you take Able Learner [Races of Destiny], your Scout-level gives you the skills you need so you lose nothing but Wild Empathy on creatures, which isn't worth much anyways)
-Skilled City-Dweller (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) (switch at least Handle Animal for Gather Information, so you qualify for Agent Retriever - if you don't have Able Learner, pick Tumble through Ride too)
-Moon-Warded Ranger (you could switch Rapid Shot for Wisdom to AC while wearing light armor, and Improved Precise Shot for immunity to Mind-Affecting - you can pick the feats over levels anyways)

The important additions are Able Learner (it allows you to take ranks in any skill with the cost of 1 skill point/rank; even if the skill is cross-class - this allows you to max any skill which you've had as a class skill at any point - requires Human or Changeling though), Planar Ranger (gets you Knowledge (The Planes) in class to qualify for Agent Retriever) and Moon-Warded Ranger (all of them are interesting - Wisdom to AC may be worth it, depending on how high you plan on boosting your AC, and effective permanent Mind Blank would alleviate the need for having Mind Blank cast on you - ask if you can get Mind Blank first though).

[ken-do-nim]

I intensely dislike the very idea that epic level D&D - in any edition - just focuses on killing super-high-powered monsters. Really, how many epic monsters are out there? It's that verisimilitude thing. It also makes an epic monster mundane. Also, high level D&D can be more interesting as more of a political game where high-level pcs are pitted against high-level npcs and must form alliances where everything isn't black-or-white.

Sorry, just had to speak up.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The way I see it, my options are, in order of preference:

1) Find a way to get my money's worth for the spear, and attempt to get enough equipment to be a half-decent brawler.

2) Reason with the DM/other players and explain that their playing styles are screwing my chances of having any fun.

3) Kill off my ranger and build an absurdly powerful pure fighter.

4) Kill off my ranger and attempt to build a spellcaster that out-PunPuns PunPun himself.

5) Quit, dropping some sort of massive ingame bombshell before I do so.

6) Quit outright.

Any advice on what I should do?

1) Try to find someone to trade the spear to for a bunch of gear. You may not be able to sell it outright because that amount of cash doesn't exactly exist (though it could be traded for things like gems and art object that typically resell for their full value) but if there's a merchant who deals in magical items then you'd be able to trade it for what you want without any actual cash changing hands.

2) That is definitely an option, considering how inexperienced you are at the game and how much experience is typically needed to succeed at that level.

3) An "absurdly powerful pure fighter" doesn't exist, because you're talking about Fighter. A Warblade or Crusader from Tome of Battle would be right up there with the other characters if built/played right, though.

4) I'd actually suggest a Gish build, a spellcaster who uses their spells to improve their melee capabilities.

5) Realize that their evil ways are better than yours. Trade/sell the spear and get several swords made from Thinaun (CW p136) and a magic item that radiates an Antimagic Field. Go kill the others in their sleep, each with one of the Thinaun swords, the AMF is so their buffs/Alarms won't work. Each weapon will trap their soul, preventing them from being raised/resurrected. Go sell the swords containing their souls to their most powerful enemy who is likely very angry with them and would love the chance to enslave them and gloat or even destroy their souls outright.

6) Maybe go find another group that plays at a lower level that would better suit your play style/experience.

[Dr. Killjoy]

Honestly, from what I read, it sounds like you're not experienced enough for epic play, & the DM is possibly screwing you. I'd quit, & find a better game somewhere else. I doubt it will get better if you're already suffering from equipment-rape.

As stated before, this is literally my first campaign ever. Great way to start out, huh? </sarcasm>

Problem is, as of now I don't really have any other viable options for a gaming group. There are a couple of other gamers in my area that I could probably scrape together a group with, but from what I heard, they're hack-and-slash types of the highest order who completely fail to grasp the concept of roleplaying. And if nothing else, my group roleplays pretty well.

Hmm. . .it probably goes without saying that my problems run deeper than just having an underpowered character.


*Snip*

Thanks, these are all looking like very good options. My DM should be understanding about this, and I'm sure he'll be willing to let me give these a try. You're giving detailed strategies that sound like they'll fix my problems quite well.

[Eldariel]

Oh, and to sell the spear? Go to Sigil - the planar metropolis of The Outlands (True Neutral-aligned). It easily has the wealth to contain people capable of purchasing such items. This would get you all the magic items you need. Plane Shift + some Knowledge (The Planes)-checks should find you a Portal through which to get there easily. But yea, having basic stat boosters, enhanced weapon, Belt of Battle, etc. would ease your life by a crapton.

But yea, without a rebuild, the character isn't going to work out. Heck, if you do the rebuild, you can use Agent Retriever's level 1 ability to attune yourself to a person: attune yourself to any person capable, and willing, to purchase your spear for its appropriate price. That'll allow you to find one no problems. You also have Plane Shift as a spell-like ability, which allows you to reach that person really easily.

[Glimbur]

You are proficient in the spear... but admittedly it isn't good for either TWF or archery.

[TengYt]

To be fair, I really doubt a first time player should be forced to play an Epic campaign without the DM and other players helping out.