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View Full Version : Eragon & Saphira vs DMC's Dante



Guts
2008-11-29, 07:50 PM
Yeah, I went there. Eragon & his pet dragon Saphira with the stuff they get during the 3rd book, Brisingdingschwartsnegger, and DMC3's Dante. To make this a bit more of a challenge, Dante's firearms should do as much as they do to enemies in the highest difficulty of gameplay (or removed if necessary) and Eragon loses his death magic (y'know the mind bullets that pop blood vessels for the same energy cost as moving a finger). Entertain me slaves people I'm bored.

*Raises flame shield*

SurlySeraph
2008-11-29, 07:52 PM
Dante wins.

Not on the grounds of anything that's actually in the books or games. Just because he's cooler.

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-29, 07:58 PM
Eragon. Just because of the truly massive number of instant wins that allow, in D&D terms, no save and no SR. I mean he can just rip Dante in half with a thought.

Guts
2008-11-29, 08:10 PM
Eragon. Just because of the truly massive number of instant wins that allow, in D&D terms, no save and no SR. I mean he can just rip Dante in half with a thought.

You think I should remove the 'no save & die'. I want to imagine a somwhat lengthy battle, rather than 'lol i gotz magiks/da gun and u get WTFBBQPWNED'.

Knaight
2008-11-29, 08:44 PM
Dante, because he is smarter than pretty much everyone in the Eragon verse, which may or may not contain other continents. When ganging up on powerful enemies is a novel idea, you know that the other guy is smarter.

DraPrime
2008-11-29, 08:50 PM
Dante. Any man that can keep a person floating in the air by shooting them has no chance of losing.

Fan
2008-11-29, 09:08 PM
eragon. He has the words of death which are stated as being able to kill anyone without the specfic anti death wards that only magicians of his world know how to weave, and even ones of Eargon's power level are extremly rare. In fact ONLY the Queen of the elves herself is more powerful then Eragon as of right now.

Galbortorx is feeding of the power of a thousand dead dragons souls.

Guts
2008-11-29, 09:09 PM
No words of death magic, please.

Revanmal
2008-11-29, 09:10 PM
Definitely Dante. They've both got superhuman strength, speed, and durability (though Dante's is greater by far), but Eragon is such a whiny little putz. A bit of mid-battle ribbing from Dante, and Eragon would lose focus long enough to open up a weak point. And even if Eragon does maintain focus, his non-insta-death magic is kinda lame, and mostly only useful as wards of protection. Saphira could pose a problem, depending on terrain, but Dante's fought big things before and manages to avoid them rather effectively.

Plus, Dante has Devil Trigger if things get too heavy. And triple-nunchucks. And fire/wind scimitars. And a kick-ass electric guitar that summons bats. And gauntlets that make him a better hand-to-hand fighter than Ryu, Ken, and Akuma combined.

So, yeah, I vote Dante.

Fan
2008-11-29, 09:15 PM
Even if it isn't insta kill magic he has words of binding which can bind a Dragon ,and its Rider who are

Both using the powers of twelve dead dragons souls.

Which is far beyond even Dante's power level.
I've seen the Cut scenes, and yeah their damned awesome, but Cool factor doesn't matter for CRAP.
Even then under extreme circumstances eragon just pulls out

The soul gem of a Ancient Gold dragon, and harness its power to cause Dante to haev a heart attack.


Eragon ahs to mucxh Mary sue with his powers to Lose EVER.

DraPrime
2008-11-29, 09:39 PM
Eragon ahs to mucxh Mary sue with his powers to Lose EVER.

Yes, but doesn't the rule of cool hand the victory to Dante?

Revanmal
2008-11-29, 09:41 PM
Even if it isn't insta kill magic he has words of binding which can bind a Dragon ,and its Rider who are

Both using the powers of twelve dead dragons souls.

Which is far beyond even Dante's power level.
I've seen the Cut scenes, and yeah their damned awesome, but Cool factor doesn't matter for CRAP.
Even then under extreme circumstances eragon just pulls out

The soul gem of a Ancient Gold dragon, and harness its power to cause Dante to haev a heart attack.


Eragon ahs to mucxh Mary sue with his powers to Lose EVER.

Causing a heart attack is still instant death magic.

As far as binding goes, Eragon's normal fighting style against a non-Rider is to close and sword fight with Saphira supporting. Considering he's never met Dante, he'd have absolutely no idea what he was capable of, and even then has no experience fighting anybody with the same skills as Dante. This means Dante has a bit of a surprise advantage, and since I'd have to say they'd at the very least be equal in sword play, Dante has the upper hand, especially once he starts mixing it up with his more powerful weapons like Nevan and Beowulf.

So even if he is bound before he kills Eragon, what happens after that? If Eragon closes to finish it, then Dante could likely survive just about any attack long enough to escape, short of decapitation. All Dante has to do is go Devil Trigger, increasing his already superhuman strength several times over, and struggle. Eragon and Saphira's strength is drained considerably by holding Murtagh and Thorn, and while Dante is probably not equal to them in pure physical might (considering one of em is a friggin DRAGON), struggling against the binding would probably drain the Rider pretty quickly, especially from a distance.

Seeing as Beowulf also increases his strength considerably, put that weapon alongside his Devil Trigger and you've got quite a handful, especially since Eragon and Saphira have to concentrate for the bindings to hold.

Guts
2008-11-29, 09:44 PM
Dante could also use the powers granted to him by the Styles, if you feel the fight warrants it.

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-29, 09:55 PM
And the fact that Eragon is continuously reading the mind of everyone around him who hasn't specifically been taught how to shield their mind?

And what defines instant death magic? Poping a blood vessel? Ripping out Dante's heart? Paralyzing Dante and cutting off his head? Ripping Dante in half with a thought? Incinerating Dante with a thought? Strangling Dante with a thought?

DrizztFan24
2008-11-29, 10:07 PM
Saphira.

Eragon begins by prying into Dante's mind and locking him in battle of wills that will occupy Dante. Either he fights the mind battle and forgets about the dragon munching on his lower torso or he focuses on the dragon and get's his mind opened up and reveals every move before he executes it.

Seraph
2008-11-29, 10:09 PM
problem is that Dante is the kind of guy who won't really be stopped by having no legs.

Guts
2008-11-29, 10:10 PM
And what defines instant death magic? Poping a blood vessel? Ripping out Dante's heart? Paralyzing Dante and cutting off his head? Ripping Dante in half with a thought? Incinerating Dante with a thought? Strangling Dante with a thought?

Anything that counts as a save or die in DnD terms. The paralysis spell like you mentioned can stay for example. I hope that's somewhat clear enough.

DrizztFan24
2008-11-29, 10:14 PM
problem is that Dante is the kind of guy who won't really be stopped by having no legs.

But Saphira's a big dragon, she will need the upper torso too because she is so hungry.

Knaight
2008-11-29, 10:20 PM
The issue here is that everybody is assuming that Eragon is going to use anything that even approaches intelligent tactics. Considering that ganging up on a powerful creature was a novel idea, that seems unlikely. Dante blows him out of the air, then has to cope with Saphira. Saphira is a big freaking dragon, meaning that she could be a serious threat, but Dante could probably escape and deal with her later. Dante has been established to be more intelligent than pretty much everyone in Eragon's world, so for all we know Eragon could start trying to attack Dante's mind, and be taken out immediately. Think Amplitur attacking a human here, for anyone who has read the Damned Trilogy. Which again, leaves Saphira.

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-29, 10:22 PM
Anything that counts as a save or die in DnD terms. The paralysis spell like you mentioned can stay for example. I hope that's somewhat clear enough.

Then Dante is dead. He isn't just held by the hardened air or the like, his spine below the neck is just crushed and he is now paralyzed from the next down. Making it trivial for Eragon to chop off his head. And if for some reason Dante can still be a threat when nothing below the neck works, well then Eragon rips out his entire skeletal system without killing him.

The power levels are just to far apart for this too be anything approaching a real fight. Even if you assume no magic and no Saphira at all, just a regular sword fight Eragon win's. He is beyond Captain America level in every category. Far beyond.

Fan
2008-11-29, 10:26 PM
I agree with tippy again. eragon is like a epic caster in DnD. then add on that he can do it pretty much infintely per day. Theres simply NO HOPE for Dante.
And the ganging up has been done. Against the Razac in Brisingir He, Saphira, and his Brother team up to kill beings who can move fast enough to catch arrows can bend steel in one hand, and can kill a man in a single blow to the torso. That, and he can just disable his spine. He even had lessons in Anatomy from his now dead teacher.

Knaight
2008-11-29, 10:29 PM
Yes, but then there is about two paragraphs on how taking out a shade by ganging up on it was such a good idea, and how nobody had thought of it before. Plus he was outnumbered by the Razac, it was more splitting opponents than ganging up, the only ganging up going on in that fight was the Lethreblaka against Saphira. Point being he really isn't that bright when it comes to inventing tactics, and Dante is like nothing he was ever trained to fight. That and Dante isn't human anyways, so how much of the Anatomy applies is debateable.

Revanmal
2008-11-29, 10:29 PM
I disagree about Eragon being a better sword fighter. He is indeed good, and while he can beat regular soldiers easily, Dante can do crazy things like slice bullets in half, stab until his rather large sword is a blur of pointy death, and practically teleport depending on his Style, not to mention his Royal Guard stance that can counter practically ANY attack someone roughly his size can make.

And spinal crushing probably wouldn't do much. Keep in mind that Dante survives being impaled on a sword, then pulling himself off of it, driving the HILT through his chest. Spinal and organ damage galore, and yet it doesn't concern him in the least.

And his magic is FAR, FAR, FAR from infinite. Like I said before, a binding spell, holding two opponents, tired him to the point where he lost consciousness after only a few minutes max. Considering lighting his sword on fire costs him a noticeable amount of effort to maintain, using magic overly much would kill him against someone as inhumanly strong as Dante.

Fan
2008-11-29, 10:35 PM
You do know that the same injury you mentioning also injured him gravely, and this is more about anatomy, and the bertabrae being crushed then anything. Eragon can crush the right vetrabrae to make Dante a vegetable foaming at the mouth, and then proceed to lop of his head. Also Eragon can just have a Saphira death from above manuever. I'm pretty sure Dragonscales are bulelt proof.:smallannoyed:

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-29, 10:37 PM
If Dante can be killed he will be killed. It's really that simple. Elves in that series (which Eragon has the body of) are at least as physically powerful as Dante. The weakest elf is considered more than a match for hundreds of humans, and Eragon is far from the weakest elf. He is tied for being the best sword user in the series. And he has all of that magic to draw on if he needs it.

You name it and he can do it. Dante's weapons and clothing are now at the horizon. He is naked and unarmed with a thought.

And this isn't even touching on the real fun. Eragon can hold Dante still and tie the spell to Dante's own strength so that he is effectively struggling against himself. No matter how strong he actually is is irrelevant, that strength keeps him still.

Revanmal
2008-11-29, 10:40 PM
You do know that the same injury you mentioning also injured him gravely, and this is more about anatomy, and the bertabrae being crushed then anything. Eragon can crush the right vetrabrae to make Dante a vegetable foaming at the mouth, and then proceed to lop of his head. Also Eragon can just have a Saphira death from above manuever. I'm pretty sure Dragonscales are bulelt proof.:smallannoyed:

Admittedly, this scene is from DMC, not DMC 3, the prequel, but I still think the point is valid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65s3dMKzMqc

Dante is impaled dead center, through his spine, then proceeds to lift himself off the blade, over the MASSIVE hilt, a feat that would destroy his heart, lungs, and spine in that particular area, and yet he's maybe stunned for a few seconds before he grabs the blade and shows off for a bit, then goes on his merry way. Dante can obviously survive spinal damage.



If Dante can be killed he will be killed. It's really that simple. Elves in that series (which Eragon has the body of) are at least as physically powerful as Dante. The weakest elf is considered more than a match for hundreds of humans, and Eragon is far from the weakest elf. He is tied for being the best sword user in the series. And he has all of that magic to draw on if he needs it.

You name it and he can do it. Dante's weapons and clothing are now at the horizon. He is naked and unarmed with a thought.

And this isn't even touching on the real fun. Eragon can hold Dante still and tie the spell to Dante's own strength so that he is effectively struggling against himself. No matter how strong he actually is is irrelevant, that strength keeps him still.

You fail to take into account that Eragon is also stupid, and therefore would likely not even think to do things like that.

Fan
2008-11-29, 10:44 PM
That my freind is what we in the trope bussiness call CUTSCENE POWER. If that happened in game you would most certiasnly have died. CUT SCENE POWER is considered irrelavant. If you wnat CUT SCENE power we can always let Eragon have his death magic. BAM Dante's brain, heart, and lungs all explode game over.
Also Eragon isn't stupid... You've obviously NEVER read the books as he is a person whos proly read more books than you ever will. He's actually pretty damned smart, and uses magic creatively plans war battles with the help of maybe 5 people, preforms espionage, adn thinks of ways to use his weapons creatively.

Emperor Tippy
2008-11-29, 10:50 PM
You fail to take into account that Eragon is also stupid, and therefore would likely not even think to do things like that.

No. Most of this won't work against those he fights. All of the real one on one fights are against opponents who things like this don't work on. And mooks who aren't protected by wards just get their life force sucked out to power his attempts to break the wards protecting other mooks or his own defenses.


Fighting Dante would be a relatively unique experience. A single foe battle against a foe who doesn't understand and can't defend against Eragon's magic yet is sufficiently dangerous in a sword fight to be worth using that magic against. And for some reason he can't just pop his brain. In the books this wouldn't be a match at all because Eragon would just pop his brain and move on. Since he can't do that he can get creative.

And Eragon isn't particuarly stupid.

Rayzin
2008-11-29, 10:52 PM
I agree with tippy again. eragon is like a epic caster in DnD. then add on that he can do it pretty much infintely per day. Theres simply NO HOPE for Dante.
And the ganging up has been done. Against the Razac in Brisingir He, Saphira, and his Brother team up to kill beings who can move fast enough to catch arrows can bend steel in one hand, and can kill a man in a single blow to the torso. That, and he can just disable his spine. He even had lessons in Anatomy from his now dead teacher.

The old guy died?

From what i remember Eragon sucks at swordplay, badly.

Guts
2008-11-29, 10:52 PM
That my freind is what we in the trope bussiness call CUTSCENE POWER. If that happened in game you would most certiasnly have died. CUT SCENE POWER is considered irrelavant. If you wnat CUT SCENE power we can always let Eragon have his death magic. BAM Dante's brain, heart, and lungs all explode game over.
Also Eragon isn't stupid... You've obviously NEVER read the books as he is a person whos proly read more books than you ever will. He's actually pretty damned smart, and uses magic creatively plans war battles with the help of maybe 5 people, preforms espionage, adn thinks of ways to use his weapons creatively.

I thought we used cutscenes in preference to gameplay in versus threads (though admittedly I am allowing the Styles)or we get into some wonky stuff if someone decides to use the gameplay from the Eragon movie's sucktastic games.

Anyways, Eragon's magic is far too versatile to make this an even match. I will take issue with FFF's trying to show Eragon's 'intilliguntz' :smalltongue:( he's not stupid per say, just Paolini's somwhat lackluster writing and world-building dims all his characters).

DraPrime
2008-11-29, 10:55 PM
The old guy died?

From what i remember Eragon sucks at swordplay, badly.

Nope. After only a few months of training, Eragon was able to defeat one of the greatest swordfighters around, WITH HIS WEAKER HAND.

Revanmal
2008-11-29, 11:07 PM
That my freind is what we in the trope bussiness call CUTSCENE POWER. If that happened in game you would most certiasnly have died. CUT SCENE POWER is considered irrelavant. If you wnat CUT SCENE power we can always let Eragon have his death magic. BAM Dante's brain, heart, and lungs all explode game over.
Also Eragon isn't stupid... You've obviously NEVER read the books as he is a person whos proly read more books than you ever will. He's actually pretty damned smart, and uses magic creatively plans war battles with the help of maybe 5 people, preforms espionage, adn thinks of ways to use his weapons creatively.

In gameplay, Dante can also survive explosions, dozens of slash wounds, laser beams, and a whole myriad of elemental attacks. Getting impaled is probably Tuesday for him.

And I have read the books. I have read them several times over. And Eragon is dumb in pretty much all of them. And I am also fairly certain I have read more books than him. In fact, I'm practically certain of it. I've probably spent more time reading than he has spent on anything in his entire life, including breathing.

As Knaight pointed out, he realizes ganging up on an opponent is a good idea around book three, he tries to divert a group of Urgals using some kind of dark fog, though in the process he forgets one of the most basic rules of magic, and he can't seem to realize that Arya does not love him. Nor is the fact that he learns inhumanly quickly a sign of genius, just a sign that Paolini cannot write. Overall, I'd have to say he's not the brightest bulb in the shed.

Fan
2008-11-29, 11:14 PM
In gameplay, Dante can also survive explosions, dozens of slash wounds, laser beams, and a whole myriad of elemental attacks. Getting impaled is probably Tuesday for him.

And I have read the books. I have read them several times over. And Eragon is dumb in pretty much all of them. And I am also fairly certain I have read more books than him. In fact, I'm practically certain of it. I've probably spent more time reading than he has spent on anything in his entire life, including breathing.

As Knaight pointed out, he realizes ganging up on an opponent is a good idea around book three, he tries to divert a group of Urgals using some kind of dark fog, though in the process he forgets one of the most basic rules of magic, and he can't seem to realize that Arya does not love him. Nor is the fact that he learns inhumanly quickly a sign of genius, just a sign that Paolini cannot write. Overall, I'd have to say he's not the brightest bulb in the shed.

Hes smarter than Dante who is A: EXTREMLY cocky, and arrogant. B: Dumber than a sack of bricks as evident from his fighting styles, and distnct lack of knwoldge of anything besides KILL STAB, HIT ON RANDOM BLONDE GIRL!
Eragon has doen as such: Learned a entire language in a week, Out smarted the most brilliant tacticans of a nations as vast as Russia. (thats abotu the size of the Empire.), abnd won a abttle of wits with a creature who is inhabitedb y things older than time.

Collin152
2008-11-29, 11:16 PM
Eragon's purported intelligence is an Informed Ability; the Demonstrated intelligence of any character, after all, is limited to that of the Author.

Revanmal
2008-11-29, 11:22 PM
Hes smarter than Dante who is A: EXTREMLY cocky, and arrogant. B: Dumber than a sack of bricks as evident from his fighting styles, and distnct lack of knwoldge of anything besides KILL STAB, HIT ON RANDOM BLONDE GIRL!
Eragon has doen as such: Learned a entire language in a week, Out smarted the most brilliant tacticans of a nations as vast as Russia. (thats abotu the size of the Empire.), abnd won a abttle of wits with a creature who is inhabitedb y things older than time.

I admit, Dante isn't exactly a genius, but then again he doesn't have to be. THis isn't comparing their intelligences, it's my protest against Eragon thinking up things as creative as making Dante's clothes disappear.

Again: Eragon was suitably proficient in a writtin language in one week, which frankly is impossible for a normal human being. It's an example of Paolini's bad writing, not Eragon's genius, and if anything I'd chock it up to either SOME prior experience on Eragon's part or perhaps an inhuman aptitude with languages, which isn't a sign of genius, just a talent.

I'm a bit rusty, so if you could please give an specific example of Eragon and Eragon alone outsmarting the Empire's generals, I'd be most appreciative. And I'm not quite sure what creature you're talking about.

If you mean the Menoa tree, I'd like to say he didn't so much outwit it as make a deal with it.

The Glyphstone
2008-11-29, 11:27 PM
A truly epic battle, but how to judge?

Do we match their power levels as presented in their own stories?Lame, see option 2.

Do we compare relative tropes (Mary Sue vs. Rule of Cool)?

Do we measure the vocalness/intensity/number of their fanboys?

Do we contrast their relative sales or profit margins in their respective primary mediums (Inheritance books vs. DMC games)?

konfeta
2008-11-30, 02:56 AM
Again: Eragon was suitably proficient in a writtin language in one week, which frankly is impossible for a normal human being

Didn't Christopher Lee learn Italian in 2 weeks flat in order to give a speech? Or am I thinking of a different actor with a different language feat?

Fan
2008-11-30, 07:15 AM
I admit, Dante isn't exactly a genius, but then again he doesn't have to be. THis isn't comparing their intelligences, it's my protest against Eragon thinking up things as creative as making Dante's clothes disappear.

Again: Eragon was suitably proficient in a writtin language in one week, which frankly is impossible for a normal human being. It's an example of Paolini's bad writing, not Eragon's genius, and if anything I'd chock it up to either SOME prior experience on Eragon's part or perhaps an inhuman aptitude with languages, which isn't a sign of genius, just a talent.

I'm a bit rusty, so if you could please give an specific example of Eragon and Eragon alone outsmarting the Empire's generals, I'd be most appreciative. And I'm not quite sure what creature you're talking about.

If you mean the Menoa tree, I'd like to say he didn't so much outwit it as make a deal with it.

He helped plan the battle at the End of Eldest.... Do you read these at ALL becuase I'm beinging to doubt your word here. Also learning a language that is comproised of ALL THINGS EVERYWHERE, EVER in addition to at the same time also learning the elven language its Customs, AND Elven swordplay all within the span of a month.
Also anyone who can do the above must be DAMN smart, and on the creatitivy issue. He's also a composer, and a artist as relvant from the eldest book in which he writes a song with painted pcitures stated as being on par with "the elven poets, and artists of his time."
Dante has well.... NOTHING going for him in the intellgence department beyond basic puzzle solving skills.... and that isn't saying much.

Drascin
2008-11-30, 07:47 AM
He helped plan the battle at the End of Eldest.... Do you read these at ALL becuase I'm beinging to doubt your word here. Also learning a language that is comproised of ALL THINGS EVERYWHERE, EVER in addition to at the same time also learning the elven language its Customs, AND Elven swordplay all within the span of a month.
Also anyone who can do the above must be DAMN smart, and on the creatitivy issue. He's also a composer, and a artist as relvant from the eldest book in which he writes a song with painted pcitures stated as being on par with "the elven poets, and artists of his time."

Which literally makes no sense in comparison to his actions. He learns impossible stuff in a month, is an artist equivalent to Leonardo, good in every field, learns swordplay to make masters pale... and then proceeds to suck at basic battle tactics that any ten-year-old playing Age of Empires could imagine easily? Come on, that makes no sense!

And yes, I read Eragon. I even read most of Eldest, before going "okay, now this has gone from hard-to-believe to completely stupid" and leaving it in irritation. And I have a lot of suspension of disbelief, believe me here.

Fan
2008-11-30, 08:18 AM
Which literally makes no sense in comparison to his actions. He learns impossible stuff in a month, is an artist equivalent to Leonardo, good in every field, learns swordplay to make masters pale... and then proceeds to suck at basic battle tactics that any ten-year-old playing Age of Empires could imagine easily? Come on, that makes no sense!

And yes, I read Eragon. I even read most of Eldest, before going "okay, now this has gone from hard-to-believe to completely stupid" and leaving it in irritation. And I have a lot of suspension of disbelief, believe me here.

You should watch the DMC cut scenes then. Anyway we have nerfed Eragon here, and he STILL wins because Paloni is a terrible writer, and he made his PLOT device awesome at everything ever, a genius, have super strength, super speed, and be able to kill anyone who isn't prepared SPECFICLY against it with a thought.

Drascin
2008-11-30, 09:05 AM
You should watch the DMC cut scenes then.

The only DMC I have played is 4, and I am not half as irritated by the cutscenes there than by a random chapter of Eldest. As I said, I actually have an incredibly high disbelief threshold - I see it much like I can see Advent Children's acrobatics, impossible, but cool, and acceptable when we're talking people with that kind of superpowers and training. The justification that Dante is the direct son of the most powerful demon lord around, and spent his whole life fighting superhuman abberrations in an universe filled with magic, is actually justification enough for me for him being able to slash bullets in midair, cleave stone pillars clean with his magic sword, and such. In fact, my main annoyance with them is that I am not allowed to jump that well during gameplay! Well, and that Dante is a cocky SOB, but that's his character.

But Eragon just doesn't have any justification. He's just inherently better at everything with little training and almost no effort on his part. He was only a farmhand, but in an interval of like eight weeks he learned to do about the same than Nero, another "rookie with special powers" (who wasn't that much of a rookie, he was already pretty much the best demon hunter under the Church's command since years ago. He's just a rookie in comparison with Dante) has learned in his whole life, even in the absolutely over-the-top universe of DMC.

Plus, as I said, Eragon's intelligence seems to be completely theorethical. He learns all this stuff like he was a genius, but then spends the whole books juggling Idiot Balls.

Fan
2008-11-30, 09:16 AM
The only DMC I have played is 4, and I am not half as irritated by the cutscenes there than by a random chapter of Eldest. As I said, I actually have an incredibly high disbelief threshold - I see it much like I can see Advent Children's acrobatics, impossible, but cool, and acceptable when we're talking people with that kind of superpowers and training. The justification that Dante is the direct son of the most powerful demon lord around, and spent his whole life fighting superhuman abberrations in an universe filled with magic, is actually justification enough for me for him being able to slash bullets in midair, cleave stone pillars clean with his magic sword, and such. In fact, my main annoyance with them is that I am not allowed to jump that well during gameplay! Well, and that Dante is a cocky SOB, but that's his character.

But Eragon just doesn't have any justification. He's just inherently better at everything with little training and almost no effort on his part. He was only a farmhand, but in an interval of like eight weeks he learned to do about the same than Nero, another "rookie with special powers" (who wasn't that much of a rookie, he was already pretty much the best demon hunter under the Church's command since years ago. He's just a rookie in comparison with Dante) has learned in his whole life, even in the absolutely over-the-top universe of DMC.

Plus, as I said, Eragon's intelligence seems to be completely theorethical. He learns all this stuff like he was a genius, but then spends the whole books juggling Idiot Balls.

Those are PLOT based idiot balls. BAD PLOT but still PLOT.
namely as giving Eragon his ONE weakness. Love.
Althoug thatm akes him closer to voldemort then I would like. >.>

Revanmal
2008-11-30, 11:15 AM
Those are PLOT based idiot balls. BAD PLOT but still PLOT.
namely as giving Eragon his ONE weakness. Love.
Althoug thatm akes him closer to voldemort then I would like. >.>

I would say that not all of the idiot balls are plot based. You mentioned the Battle of the Burning Plains at the end of Eldest:

Was it Eragon's idea to leave the fortifications they already had set up, sneak 2 miles across a dangerous sulfuric plain to the enemy army, then charge them at about a half mile, effectively tiring the men before they even start fighting? The battle could have been just as epic had they stayed in their fortified encampment and "held the walls." Instead, they weaken their own advantages, facing an army that outnumbers them on even ground. That's idiotic tactics, and the only reason it happened is because Paolini can't write worth crap. Eragon is still stupid, and the only reason he lives is because the author is too incompetent to write well and has the bail him out by making the whole world warp around his mistakes to make him right.

Fan
2008-11-30, 11:23 AM
I would say that not all of the idiot balls are plot based. You mentioned the Battle of the Burning Plains at the end of Eldest:

Was it Eragon's idea to leave the fortifications they already had set up, sneak 2 miles across a dangerous sulfuric plain to the enemy army, then charge them at about a half mile, effectively tiring the men before they even start fighting? The battle could have been just as epic had they stayed in their fortified encampment and "held the walls." Instead, they weaken their own advantages, facing an army that outnumbers them on even ground. That's idiotic tactics, and the only reason it happened is because Paolini can't write worth crap. Eragon is still stupid, and the only reason he lives is because the author is too incompetent to write well and has the bail him out by making the whole world warp around his mistakes to make him right.

You seem to neglect the fact that he had the backing of a order of mages, a reinforcement of Urgals thus makign this more than a even fight. In fact with the Urgals, a Dragon, and a army of humans agaisnt a army of people who are A: POISONED. B: Incredibly poorly led. C: To be honest not that smart.
also just becuase you hate Paloni doesn't make Eragon dumb. The evidence for him being OMGWTFPWN smart is considerbly higher then the evidence against him, and Dante's just a effing idiot who's PLOT is worse than anything Paloni has ever written.

Revanmal
2008-11-30, 11:33 AM
You seem to neglect the fact that he had the backing of a order of mages, a reinforcement of Urgals thus makign this more than a even fight. In fact with the Urgals, a Dragon, and a army of humans agaisnt a army of people who are A: POISONED. B: Incredibly poorly led. C: To be honest not that smart.
also just becuase you hate Paloni doesn't make Eragon dumb. The evidence for him being OMGWTFPWN smart is considerbly higher then the evidence against him, and Dante's just a effing idiot who's PLOT is worse than anything Paloni has ever written.

You keep missing the point that it doesn't frigging matter how smart Dante is. This is about Eragon being stupid, not how he stacks up compared to Dante.

Even if they did have the backing of some mages (which the Empire also had, mind you, and probably a lot more of them) and some Urgals, that still doesn't excuse the horribly planned open assault when the army had a perfectly good defensible position that the Empire would have had to destroy. Me hating Paolini (which I admit I do with a burning passion) has nothing to do with me thinking Eragon is stupid. Because despite Paolini telling us over and over again how smart he's supposed to be, what Eragon does can be incredibly stupid and childish.

UnChosenOne
2008-11-30, 11:58 AM
A: POISONED.
.... Dante's just a effing idiot who's PLOT is worse than anything Paloni has ever written.

And they couldn't have been leaved to die to poison. Or was it so that good guy's couldn't make the poison so strong that it would kill most of emperor's army.

And being the greatest SoB on the world is the that part of Dante that makes he to so enjoyable.

And the using cut-scene power to max theory . Somehow it does not sound like so strong from the lip's of gut who say's that Cloud can do it and that if it showed on the limited break's (and only in the limited break's) but when Dante do it on the cut-scene's it can't be posible.

Well FFF. I hope that i haven't offendet you.

Fan
2008-11-30, 11:58 AM
You keep missing the point that it doesn't frigging matter how smart Dante is. This is about Eragon being stupid, not how he stacks up compared to Dante.

Even if they did have the backing of some mages (which the Empire also had, mind you, and probably a lot more of them) and some Urgals, that still doesn't excuse the horribly planned open assault when the army had a perfectly good defensible position that the Empire would have had to destroy. Me hating Paolini (which I admit I do with a burning passion) has nothing to do with me thinking Eragon is stupid. Because despite Paolini telling us over and over again how smart he's supposed to be, what Eragon does can be incredibly stupid and childish.

Like being a artist that almost human can compare with at the same time being a poer, a magician, and orator (from his open preformance in which he had no prior practice... namely when he did the above poem with art back up.) a skilled rider, a politican, and lastly a master swordsman unparraled by even one of the super human elves best. Yeah, sounds like a idioit to me.
anyway its not intellgence its CREATIVITY That matters. And Eragon as a artist/poet/magician has plenty of that.

Innis Cabal
2008-11-30, 12:01 PM
Like being a artist that almost human can compare with at the same time being a poer, a magician, and orator (from his open preformance in which he had no prior practice... namely when he did the above poem with art back up.) a skilled rider, a politican, and lastly a master swordsman unparraled by even one of the super human elves best. Yeah, sounds like a idioit to me.

None of that denotes how smart he is.

But, coupled with the fact he's done some -very- dumb things in the course of the story...I think we can just chalk the above to Wish Fufilment for the writer and move on with our lives.

There have already been people posted here that -can- beat Eragon but they've been ignored.

Ozymandias
2008-11-30, 12:07 PM
Reading this thread destroys any remnant of respect I have ever had for the Eragon series. I knew he was a Mary Sue, but some of these abilities are so ridiculous I can barely fathom it.

In any case, keep in mind that Dante is not a human so its dubious as to whether many of these magical abilities would actually work on him. Also, his physiology has to be sort of weird considering his inhuman feats of endurance during the cutscenes - his repeated impalement is one example.

As for intelligence, Paolini fails basic chemistry - among other things - so I don't think he's capable of writing an extremely intelligent character very well. Of course, he isn't capable of writing anything very well, so...

Drascin
2008-11-30, 12:09 PM
also just becuase you hate Paloni doesn't make Eragon dumb. The evidence for him being OMGWTFPWN smart is considerbly higher then the evidence against him, and Dante's just a effing idiot who's PLOT is worse than anything Paloni has ever written.

Okay, no. As said, I only know the last DMC game, but at least in there Dante, while certainly doing absolutely absurd stunts, does not, in fact, show any kind of "absolute PLOT power" like Eragon does. In fact, he has to leave part of the destruction of the Saviour to the comparative rookie Nero, simply because Nero was better positioned for it. If this was anywhere near Eragon, he would have developed a sudden upgrade that would have allowed him to teleport inside the Saviour himself, or better yet, not needed it because he could destroy the Saviour from outside without a problem with some kind of uberspell of Pwnage.

I'm not even a fan of DMC. I just know that there are levels of MartyStu-dom, and Eragon is much, much higher in the scale than Dante.

GoC
2008-11-30, 12:57 PM
Dante. Any man that can keep a person floating in the air by shooting them has no chance of losing.

This brings up an interesting point...
Should things that are cleary rule-of-cool be valid in vs threads?

btw: Eragon=Goku?

GoC
2008-11-30, 01:05 PM
Admittedly, this scene is from DMC, not DMC 3, the prequel, but I still think the point is valid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65s3dMKzMqc

Dante is impaled dead center, through his spine, then proceeds to lift himself off the blade, over the MASSIVE hilt, a feat that would destroy his heart, lungs, and spine in that particular area, and yet he's maybe stunned for a few seconds before he grabs the blade and shows off for a bit, then goes on his merry way. Dante can obviously survive spinal damage.

I dunno. That looks a heck of a lot like some sort of intangibility.

Guts
2008-11-30, 01:13 PM
This brings up an interesting point...
Should things that are cleary rule-of-cool be valid in vs threads?

btw: Eragon=Goku?

I think things like the example you mentioned should be allowed, as it something Dante has demonstrated it repeatedly in all his 4 games, rather than being a one-note event.

Eragon is not quite Goku's level, but magic in Inheritance is 'broken' and since Eragon 1) levels up faster than everyone else, 2) has quite an arsenal of artifacts given to him on a silver platter that relieve some of the drawbacks and applications of magic (like a scrying detector and stuff he can use as reserves of energy), 3) has learned secrets that almost no one else in the world knows, like the words of insta-death, it'll require some rather high power levels to beat him in a fair fight. Like Alucard from Hellsing.

Guts
2008-11-30, 01:16 PM
I dunno. That looks a heck of a lot like some sort of intangibility.

Nah, it's his healing factor otherwise his wouldn't be bleeding as he's pulling himself up.

Revanmal
2008-11-30, 01:17 PM
I dunno. That looks a heck of a lot like some sort of intangibility.

But then why would he be spraying blood? :smallconfused:

GoC
2008-11-30, 01:24 PM
But then why would he be spraying blood? :smallconfused:

He's spraying very very little blood, especially for a wound like that.
The blood seems to disappear after it's left his body (there's none on his face despite the fact there should be).
The blood is spraying in a very odd fashion.
The hilt appears to go right out the back of his head but when he stands up there's not a hair out of place.

Guts
2008-11-30, 01:26 PM
He's spraying very very little blood, especially for a wound like that.
The blood seems to disappear after it's left his body (there's none on his face despite the fact there should be).
The blood is spraying in a very odd fashion.
The hilt appears to go right out the back of his head but when he stands up there's not a hair out of place.

Chalk it up to graphics limitation/game developers not giving a crap 'bout realism.

GoC
2008-11-30, 01:52 PM
Chalk it up to graphics limitation/game developers not giving a crap 'bout realism.

Aha! A meta explanation!
Rule of Cool is also a meta explanation and fits better.

hanzo66
2008-11-30, 07:53 PM
I would say that Dante would easily defeat Eragon. I don't quite know of Eragon's current power level, but I would assume that Dante has greater physical capabilities as well as overall experience (Canonically Dante is in his 30's or 40's I believe) than Eragon.

Eragon for the most part sounds like a very standard Fantasy hero Fighter/Mage mix. Dante could probably take him down with his firearms.

Then there's Devil Trigger...

Guts
2008-11-30, 08:18 PM
I would say that Dante would easily defeat Eragon. I don't quite know of Eragon's current power level, but I would assume that Dante has greater physical capabilities as well as overall experience (Canonically Dante is in his 30's or 40's I believe) than Eragon.

Eragon for the most part sounds like a very standard Fantasy hero Fighter/Mage mix. Dante could probably take him down with his firearms.

Then there's Devil Trigger...

Alas his magic wins it for him. He can pop vessels in the heart or brain or even rip ppl apart with a thought. While i've banned things like that, there's still things like mind-reading(know every action in advance), leeching Dante's lifeforce to power his magic or somehow directly tying Dante's stamina to the spell.

warty goblin
2008-11-30, 09:21 PM
Alas his magic wins it for him. He can pop vessels in the heart or brain or even rip ppl apart with a thought. While i've banned things like that, there's still things like mind-reading(know every action in advance), leeching Dante's lifeforce to power his magic or somehow directly tying Dante's stamina to the spell.

The thing is, as demonstrated by several cutscenes, Dante doesn't really seem that slowed down by gross physical trauma.

Fan
2008-11-30, 09:24 PM
Alas his magic wins it for him. He can pop vessels in the heart or brain or even rip ppl apart with a thought. While i've banned things like that, there's still things like mind-reading(know every action in advance), leeching Dante's lifeforce to power his magic or somehow directly tying Dante's stamina to the spell.
Yeah, he just powers his defensive wards with Dante's Life force. Them ore Dante attacks you the more he hurts himself. BAM He kills himself never doing a lick of harm to you.
@^ Read my post... The more he hits me the more the wards drain HIS lifeforce.
There is also the matter of True names which give someone complete, and TOTAL power over someone. He delves itno dante's mind rips it out, and makes Dante his offical man slave.

Guts
2008-11-30, 09:25 PM
He could be torn apart or incinerated with a thought.

Revanmal
2008-11-30, 10:21 PM
Yeah, he just powers his defensive wards with Dante's Life force. Them ore Dante attacks you the more he hurts himself. BAM He kills himself never doing a lick of harm to you.
@^ Read my post... The more he hits me the more the wards drain HIS lifeforce.
There is also the matter of True names which give someone complete, and TOTAL power over someone. He delves itno dante's mind rips it out, and makes Dante his offical man slave.

Is Eragon capable of doing that? He's never used it before, and he might not even know how.

Not only that, but you can't just "rip out" someone's true name. You could analyze their life and figure it out if you had time, but Eragon doesn't have that kind of time, and Dante would obviously not know his own.

Fan
2008-12-01, 03:14 PM
Is Eragon capable of doing that? He's never used it before, and he might not even know how.

Not only that, but you can't just "rip out" someone's true name. You could analyze their life and figure it out if you had time, but Eragon doesn't have that kind of time, and Dante would obviously not know his own.

He did it with Sloan the4 butcher, and he has been taught how he just DOESNT because everyone worth the effort has too many defenses for that to work for him. Also he has powered kill spells with the life force of other soldiers, and even enemy soldiers with mage back up. No reason eh cant do it Dante with his wards.

Revanmal
2008-12-01, 03:39 PM
He did it with Sloan the4 butcher, and he has been taught how he just DOESNT because everyone worth the effort has too many defenses for that to work for him. Also he has powered kill spells with the life force of other soldiers, and even enemy soldiers with mage back up. No reason eh cant do it Dante with his wards.

He didn't "rip out" Sloan's true name. he examined Sloan's life after a long mind-reading session and found it out by sheer accident. He could do it with Dante, but that's a distraction he can't afford against the demon hunter.

Seraph
2008-12-01, 03:58 PM
He did it with Sloan the4 butcher, and he has been taught how he just DOESNT because everyone worth the effort has too many defenses for that to work for him. Also he has powered kill spells with the life force of other soldiers, and even enemy soldiers with mage back up. No reason eh cant do it Dante with his wards.

no reason? Dante is the son of one of the most powerful demons in the DMC 'verse. not even counting his decades of experience fighting the supernatural, his bloodline alone probably has enough innate spell resistance to block most if not all of what Eragon can throw at him.

Klose_the_Sith
2008-12-01, 08:06 PM
no reason? Dante is the son of one of the most powerful demons in the DMC 'verse. not even counting his decades of experience fighting the supernatural, his bloodline alone probably has enough innate spell resistance to block most if not all of what Eragon can throw at him.

So ... you're argument is that Dante "should totally" have Spell Resistance? :smalltongue:

Personally I think that Eragon would win, because Dante as an anime emo, the weakest kind of emo.

GoC
2008-12-01, 08:29 PM
no reason? Dante is the son of one of the most powerful demons in the DMC 'verse. not even counting his decades of experience fighting the supernatural, his bloodline alone probably has enough innate spell resistance to block most if not all of what Eragon can throw at him.

Spell Resistance is a D&D term. Does it really exist in DMC?

Seraph
2008-12-01, 08:32 PM
Spell Resistance is a D&D term. Does it really exist in DMC?

what term would you expect me to use? DnD aside, it's a suitable phrase for the situation.

Revanmal
2008-12-01, 08:44 PM
So ... you're argument is that Dante "should totally" have Spell Resistance? :smalltongue:

Personally I think that Eragon would win, because Dante as an anime emo, the weakest kind of emo.


because Dante as an anime emo, the weakest kind of emo


because Dante as an anime emo


anime emo

Are we thinking of the same Dante?! :smalleek: Dante is about as far from emo as a person can possibly be! His primary colors are red and white, not black, I've never seen him sad for more than a few minutes max, he doesn't brood over anything for very long, and dammit, he LAUGHS. He's a cocky sunova-b*tch, not an emo. :smallconfused:

Klose_the_Sith
2008-12-01, 08:57 PM
Are we thinking of the same Dante?! :smalleek: Dante is about as far from emo as a person can possibly be! His primary colors are red and white, not black, I've never seen him sad for more than a few minutes max, he doesn't brood over anything for very long, and dammit, he LAUGHS. He's a cocky sunova-b*tch, not an emo. :smallconfused:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/84/Dante_transparent.png

Look at him!

He is an anime emo.

EDIT:

While we're on the topic, how many emos have you actually known? Based off of your description not many.

GoC
2008-12-01, 08:59 PM
what term would you expect me to use? DnD aside, it's a suitable phrase for the situation.

I meant that do they really resist spells in that universe? And it's possible to become immune to low level spells?
Speaking of which it's possible that Eragon's spells ignore spell resistance.

Revanmal
2008-12-01, 09:13 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/84/Dante_transparent.png

Look at him!

He is an anime emo.

EDIT:

While we're on the topic, how many emos have you actually known? Based off of your description not many.

I define an emo as someone who wears lots of black clothing and pale makeup that whine about life and cut, whether because they have emotional problems or because they're poseurs. Your definition may be different, but Dante is far from my idea of an emo.

Klose_the_Sith
2008-12-02, 01:17 AM
I define an emo as someone who wears lots of black clothing and pale makeup that whine about life and cut, whether because they have emotional problems or because they're poseurs. Your definition may be different, but Dante is far from my idea of an emo.

You haven't known many emos, have you?

All we can do is speculate whether or not Dante is emo, based off of his appearance.

Although there are depressed emos who follow your criteria, there are also others.

Artemician
2008-12-02, 01:45 AM
You haven't known many emos, have you?

All we can do is speculate whether or not Dante is emo, based off of his appearance.

Or you could, you know, like actually find out what kind of stuff Dante does, and how he reacts to situations before classifying him as anything, instead of making random guesses based off his appearance.

Revanmal
2008-12-02, 11:16 AM
Or you could, you know, like actually find out what kind of stuff Dante does, and how he reacts to situations before classifying him as anything, instead of making random guesses based off his appearance.

QFT. Don't be a stereotyping jerk, Klose. :smalltongue:

TheCheshireHat
2008-12-02, 03:09 PM
[...] Dante as an anime emo, the weakest kind of emo.


This... may or may not be true, but Dante is an anime badass, the badassest kind of badass. :smallbiggrin:

As for the actual fight, I haven´t really played enough DMC, or read enough Inheritance to have an informed opinion, but Dante should have a decent chance at Eragon, even if it is only because, as far as I know, fighting and beating people like Eragon and Saphira is pretty much Dante´s job description

chiasaur11
2008-12-02, 03:20 PM
This... may or may not be true, but Dante is an anime badass, the badassest kind of badass. :smallbiggrin:

As for the actual fight, I haven´t really played enough DMC, or read enough Inheritance to have an informed opinion, but Dante should have a decent chance at Eragon, even if it is only because, as far as I know, fighting and beating people like Eragon and Saphira is pretty much Dante´s job description

No, the most badass kind of badass is a WW Deuce badass, as proven by science.

See: Sgt Rock, Atomic Robo, Simo Häyhä...

Fan
2008-12-02, 04:21 PM
what term would you expect me to use? DnD aside, it's a suitable phrase for the situation.

BEcause IN GAME hes as vulnerable to magic blasts as anyone else. He just takes them a little easier due to his natural toughness of being a erfin Half demon. It SHOULD be a trope if it isn't.