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JMobius
2008-12-10, 01:07 PM
I don't like d20. The reasons are numerous and unimportant.

I know this board is largely focused on it, and D&D in particular. Despite this, the community has helped me discover several other, more niche systems that do greatly appeal to me. However, most of these suggestions have come up only tangentially. Consequently, it occurs to me that I should poll the group for other alternatives to look in to.

What have you found? :smallsmile:

(EDIT: I'll just nip this in the bud while it occurs to me: I'm not familiar with the mechanics of pre-3E D&D, but please consider older editions also disqualified for the sake of this discussion :smalltongue:)

Krrth
2008-12-10, 01:10 PM
Well, I'm rather fond of White Wolf's d10 system. It's kinda d20, like AD&D is d20, but both Space Opera and Chivalry and Sorcery are decent systems.
edit: Maybe I should clarify what I meant by "Kinda". It uses a d20 for some tasks. They use percentile dice for most others.

OverdrivePrime
2008-12-10, 01:13 PM
My favorite systems by order of preference:

Immortal 3rd edition
Immortal 1st edition
Shadowrun 3rd edition
Shadowrun 4th edition
White Wolf (old)
White Wolf (new)
d20
MERP
GURPS

Vortling
2008-12-10, 01:25 PM
My favorite non-d20 systems in no particular order:

7th Sea (same system as Legend of the Five Rings)
Savage Worlds (http://www.peginc.com/)
Prose Descriptive Qualities (PDQ) (http://www.atomicsockmonkey.com/freebies.asp#pdq)

Satyr
2008-12-10, 01:25 PM
I really like Gurps and the Unisystem (the set of rules behind All Flesh Must Be Eaten and other much underestimated and undervalued games) for the flexibility and adaptability. For me, a too srong focus on a certain playing or campaign style feels very limiting and I have a strong dislike against those overspecialised 'coala games' (sadly, 4th edition seems to completely fit into this hidebound category). The more flexibility the system offers and the less limits are enforced on the player, the better.

But with the right people I probably enjoy almost any game.

Fax Celestis
2008-12-10, 01:32 PM
I'm rather fond of the World of Darknesses, though I prefer old for fluff and new for mechanics.

I also really like Everway. It's a very rules-light system (seriously, you make up powers), and there's no dice: everything's decided by tarot draw.

valadil
2008-12-10, 01:42 PM
7th Sea and Star Wars d6 are both pretty cool, but I haven't played them much.

I like WoD's straightforwardness. You add a stat to a skill and roll that number of d10s. Count how many are above a difficulty threshold to see if you succeed. It's real simply but opens up room for a lot of weird stat/skill rolls that occasionally come up, ie melee+perception.

For denser systems I'm growing more and mroe fond of GURPs. Well, I don't like character creation. But once you start playing it's a pretty good game. Melee combat is pretty interesting too.

MERP was awesome in its day, but I don't think you'll like it if you don't like DnD.

While I like the setting I'm not a fan of Shadowrun's system. It's like a sloppy version of WoD, but the d6s don't offer enough variation. ie, a difficulty 4 roll is too easy but a difficulty 5 is too hard. 10 degrees of difficulty seems to work better.

Shishnarfne
2008-12-10, 01:50 PM
I enjoyed my experience with Fading Suns. Unfortunately, the people that I knew that had the actual books graduated and moved away, so I haven't played in a while.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-10, 01:51 PM
Shadowrun 4th edition - cool system.
Cyberpunk 2020 (Listen Up, You Primitive Screwheads! a must) - most classic cyberpunk RPG there is.
RuneQuest (3rd and Mongoose both) - good system, best game world ever.
HeroQuest (not the GW boardgame) - great system tailored specifically for the abovementioned best game world ever.
Twilight 2013 - best war RPG and post-apocalyptic survival RPG.
All Flesh Must Be Eaten / Unisystem - best zombie survival RPG, great system in general.
Trail of Cthulhu - best horror game, far better than BRP for Cthulhu Mythos.
Mutants & Masterminds - kind of d20, but it hardly counts.
Fading Suns - amazing Dune-feeling space opera game with a dash of WH40,000.
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay - grim, gritty, dirty, lethal, fun.
Lord of the Rings RPG - movie license be damned, it still beats the heck out of Rolemaster and MERP for Middle-Earth. Read the book carefully, though, so you understand how to use the rules. (If you try to use the default/PC rules for wounds for NPCs/mooks, you'll be screwed. Fortunately, the game has one of the most elegant mook injury systems ever.) The mass combat system in the Helm's Deep book is great, and puts the focus on the right kind of combat for epic fantasy - leading troops into battle.

horseboy
2008-12-10, 02:03 PM
Fantasy:
Rolemaster
Earthdawn
Harn

Cyber Punk:
Cyber Punk (duh)
Shadowrun (Personally perfer 2nd)

Sci Fi:
Privateers is neat, but desperately needs a rewrite.
Traveller, though it being a hard sci fi game from the 70's, you're going to have a little trouble with tech, unless you hand wave it around.
Star Wars (d6)

Western:
Deadlands

Post Apocalypse:
I like to use Rifts setting with Shadowrun mechanics.

Any other genres you're interested in?

edit: Doh!
Horror:
Call of Cthulthu

serok42
2008-12-10, 02:03 PM
It is probably a tie between White Wolf's d10 and West End Games Star Wars (d6)

Kiero
2008-12-10, 02:06 PM
Wushu (Open Reloaded edition) by far and away.

snoopy13a
2008-12-10, 02:07 PM
I liked the Star Wards d6 game. I also liked Mechwarrior which also used d6.

In theory, I prefer the d6 games which tend to be skill based over the d20 leveling games.

Then there is Marvel Superheroes which rolled two twenty sided die for a percentile system.

Mark Hall
2008-12-10, 02:42 PM
I don't like d20. The reasons are numerous and unimportant.

Actually, I wouldn't say they're unimportant. If you had the fiddliness of it, then suggesting Shadowrun or Hero is a rather bad idea. If you hate the level-based system, then Palladium probably isn't for you.

A lot of what you might like is predicated on what you don't like.

rayne_dragon
2008-12-10, 03:15 PM
Ars Magica - complex, bad art, but a wonderfully medieval flavoured game of wizardary.

Netherworld - a great point buy system set in a bleak futuristic alternate universe with magic. I think my old Netherworld character is my favourite... nothing like machine-gunning sharp shards of stone into hordes of goblins.

Call of Cthulhu - if you accept that you're doomed when you start it's an awesome game.

I also design my own systems when I feel bored. I've done two so far.

potatocubed
2008-12-10, 03:31 PM
Tricky.

I really like the system for 7th Sea, but it only does a very narrow set of genres well (swashbuckling, with or without magic). Also, having GMed a year-long campaign I was thoroughly burned out and still don't want to go back to it.

Burning Wheel is a good, flexible, fantasy system. It's not as good as a lot of its fans would like you to believe, but its also not as complicated in play as a readthrough of the books makes it look. On the down side, if you want to make up your own magic or monsters the instructions are in other books. (EDIT - Which didn't bother me with D&D, but does for BW. Clearly, I've got some double standards here. :smallconfused:)

Burning Empires is a scifi development of Burning Wheel. It's fantastic, but you can only really play Burning Empires with it.

Spirit of the Century (and probably FATE, which it's based on) is one of the most elegant systems I've come across. I've not tried it for anything other than pulp adventure yet, but it's the best pulp adventure game there is. You can get the complete text online for free, but I found it a much easier read when I actually bought the book.

Tyrrell
2008-12-10, 04:01 PM
Ars Magica is my favorite game and the present edition (fifth) is greatly improved from all previous editions (with the exception of the combat system).

Artanis
2008-12-10, 04:14 PM
I don't have experience with nearly as many systems as many people on this board, and of what I do have experience with, 40% is DnD. But I might be able to contribute something useful because two of them are practically the opposite of DnD, though in vastly different ways: BESM and Heavy Gear.


BESM is like somebody looked at a DnD rulebook and said, "how can I make a system that is as different as humanly possible?" Only one aspect of the game can even be argued to be in the same general region as DnD's equivalent, and even then it's as different as the two can get: BESM uses 2d6+stuff with the ability to "take 6", but at that point the similarities end. And are then dragged into an alleyway and beaten to death. With burlap. Everything else is flat-out inverted.

A perfect example is the default settings. DnD's various settings try to be as realistic as a world full of wizards and dragons gets. BESM's setting is quite literally a multiverse where every single anime genre collides on Earth. Another example is the way you attack. In DnD, you spend gp on a longsword, and that longsword lets you attack people for X damage. In BESM, you spend character points on an attack that does X damage, and then you say "and it's a cool longsword!"


Heavy Gear* is opposite from DnD in a different way than BESM is. It has full-blown vehicle-creation rules the likes of which would make make the Battletech tabletop game proud, but the biggest difference is in the two systems' attitude towards mechanics. d20 tries (or claims to try) to be as simple as possible: roll one die and see if you beat a preset number. Not Heavy Gear. In Heavy Gear, nothing is linear. Nothing. The rolling system actually resembles a ridiculously complicated version of Risk more than any other RPG I've seen. It works and works well, but "simple" never even enters the conversation.

(*Or more accurately, Silhouette. Heavy Gear is one of several games based on the Silhouette system, similar to how DnD is just one of the many d20-based games. But Heavy Gear is easier to type :smalltongue: )



As for my personal favorite? I have to say Exalted. Seriously, the first page of the book mocks DnD, albeit not directly. Plus, you just have to love a system where you can play a demigod who wields an ultrasharp, surfboard-sized slab of unbreakable magical stone while setting everything in the zip code on fire with his very presence...and that's at the bottom of the PC food chain :smallcool:

Tengu_temp
2008-12-10, 04:18 PM
My top 5 games, from most favorite:

Exalted
Mutants & Masterminds (if it counts as non-d20)
Earthdawn
Fading Suns
BESM

I don't like d20 much either. I think 4e is the first decent DND, and it's still not a ground-breaking game.

Kurald Galain
2008-12-10, 06:05 PM
Werewolf: the Apocalypse
Paranoia
Mage: the Ascension
Vampire: the Masquerade
Pretty much any other Whitewolf, old or new
Call of Ctulhu
GURPS Discworld
Cyberpunk 2020

Tacoma
2008-12-10, 06:11 PM
I really like Shadowrun 2E. It's really cleaned up from 1E and it works surprisingly well. Beware letting people play Troll Physical Adepts though.

I'd say I agree with the desire to use d10s instead of d6, and so I'm intrigued by this World of Darkness. I suggest you check it out.

But SR 3 and 4 are just too far from the cyber/manapunk roots of Shadowrun. The SR conventions of cyberdecks that you plug into the wall to use are parts that are kind of fun. While the switch to wireless makes technological sense, it's an erasure of SR flavor and significantly affects gameplay. It would be like taking training, memorizing spells, resting, multiclassing, non-combat skills, and gnomes out of D&D. I don't know what such a thing would look like, but it would probably just end up kind of flavorless like any other FRPG system.

Car Wars is fun too. But it's more like a vehicular wargame than an RPG. This depends on how you play it of course. And the modeling of the vehicle movement is acceptably realistic where most games gloss over it.

InaVegt
2008-12-10, 06:14 PM
I like FATE, WUSHU, The Window, and similar low rules high fun games.

Raum
2008-12-10, 07:41 PM
What have you found? :smallsmile:My favorite game (at the moment) is Savage Worlds (http://peginc.com/downloads.html). It does pulp or heroic action well, runs very fast, and doesn't require a lot of accounting.

Kiero
2008-12-10, 07:47 PM
I like FATE, WUSHU, The Window, and similar low rules high fun games.

I'm amazed that there's anyone who actually likes The Window, never mind counts it one of their favourites.

I couldn't get past the sneeringly pretentious (and unintentionally hilarious) tone about how it represented a "revolution" in roleplaying and such.

Tacoma
2008-12-10, 07:55 PM
But it is (http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/12/10/emo-older-than-you-think/) revolutionary! Nobody has ever played games like The Window, and anyone who plays it won't be able to look at the world the same way ever again!

Nobody understands The Window!

Lord Tataraus
2008-12-10, 08:35 PM
Cyberpunk 2020 is probably my favorite closely followed by New World of Darkness and all of its subsystems (though Second Sight is better than Mage for magic). I'm also a fan of Risus for quick, hilarious games.

horseboy
2008-12-10, 09:08 PM
I really like Shadowrun 2E. It's really cleaned up from 1E and it works surprisingly well. Beware letting people play Troll Physical Adepts though.
I did that to a party once. Felt really bad afterwords. I gave him reflexes, enhanced strength, archery, stealth and a Compound Bow. Freakin' ninja troll. He one shotted half the party (Including their two trolls, the tiger shaman and Batman) before they even found them. I blame that I was watching Rambo where he shot down the helicopter with the exploding arrow. Still, it was a good learning experience for the new players.

Grynning
2008-12-10, 09:30 PM
I really like the system for 7th Sea, but it only does a very narrow set of genres well (swashbuckling, with or without magic). Also, having GMed a year-long campaign I was thoroughly burned out and still don't want to go back to it.


I do believe that system is used for the current edition of the Legend of the 5 Rings RPG (Feudal samurai in a fantasy setting if you live under a box and don't know), so apparently it can be adapted to other things. Haven't played it at all but a read-through was intriguing.

The other ones I like have already been mentioned - Savage Worlds, SW d6 (man did the d20 conversion eff that one up) and Palladium (although Palladium's system began life as a giant set of house-rules for 1st/2nd ed. AD&D in my opinion, the two are very similar). I play White Wolf games, and while I like the character creation method, I'm not a fan of the system itself. It seems that I fail rolls WAY too often, especially in the new one, it's hard to feel like an all-powerful Mage when 60% of your spells fail.

mikeejimbo
2008-12-10, 09:47 PM
GURPS
World of Darkness (Old)

Those are the only others I've actually played. I've read the rules for quite a few others. I really like the idea of Wushu Open, Call of Cthulhu is nifty, I've always wanted to play Paranoia, and eventually the new World of Darkness.

elliott20
2008-12-10, 09:53 PM
Tricky.

I really like the system for 7th Sea, but it only does a very narrow set of genres well (swashbuckling, with or without magic). Also, having GMed a year-long campaign I was thoroughly burned out and still don't want to go back to it.

Burning Wheel is a good, flexible, fantasy system. It's not as good as a lot of its fans would like you to believe, but its also not as complicated in play as a readthrough of the books makes it look. On the down side, if you want to make up your own magic or monsters the instructions are in other books. (EDIT - Which didn't bother me with D&D, but does for BW. Clearly, I've got some double standards here. :smallconfused:)

Burning Empires is a scifi development of Burning Wheel. It's fantastic, but you can only really play Burning Empires with it.

Spirit of the Century (and probably FATE, which it's based on) is one of the most elegant systems I've come across. I've not tried it for anything other than pulp adventure yet, but it's the best pulp adventure game there is. You can get the complete text online for free, but I found it a much easier read when I actually bought the book.

So YOU'RE the one that stole my list from my drawer! I was looking for that!

Lert, A.
2008-12-10, 10:27 PM
I have a certain fondness for Dark Heresy.

Morandir Nailo
2008-12-10, 11:41 PM
I recently discovered Barbarians of Lemuria, and it seems like a really cool game. It's a rules-lite system for sword & sorcery gaming, that I'll likely never get to play *sigh*

Mor

Grynning
2008-12-10, 11:45 PM
I recently discovered Barbarians of Lemuria, and it seems like a really cool game. It's a rules-lite system for sword & sorcery gaming, that I'll likely never get to play *sigh*

Mor

I don't think I'll ever get to play Cthulhu Tech, even though I'd love to. A friend of mine just got it and man does it look awesome. I think every gamer has those systems they wish they'd get a chance to play but never do. Kinda like girls who you flirt with but never get the phone number. Or something like that.

Mark Hall
2008-12-11, 11:48 AM
I did that to a party once. Felt really bad afterwords. I gave him reflexes, enhanced strength, archery, stealth and a Compound Bow. Freakin' ninja troll. He one shotted half the party (Including their two trolls, the tiger shaman and Batman) before they even found them. I blame that I was watching Rambo where he shot down the helicopter with the exploding arrow. Still, it was a good learning experience for the new players.

I did something similar, but I was a player. High-stealth human with paired stun batons. I would dump my entire combat pool into it, and kill people with stun damage.

This was, unfortunately, before "Don't tase me, bro!"

potatocubed
2008-12-11, 11:55 AM
I do believe that [the 7th Sea] system is used for the current edition of the Legend of the 5 Rings RPG (Feudal samurai in a fantasy setting if you live under a box and don't know), so apparently it can be adapted to other things. Haven't played it at all but a read-through was intriguing.

Not quite. They have the same basic 'roll and keep' mechanic, but that's about where the similarity ends. L5R and 7th Sea have totally different combat damage mechanics (cinematic in 7th Sea, murderous in L5R), different rules for spellcasting, different worlds, and even slight variations in the basic mechanic (roll skill keep trait vs. roll trait+skill, keep trait) that overall combine to make them very different games.

They're both pretty awesome, though. :smallsmile:

Or... the short version: you can use the 7th Sea system for things other than swashbuckling, but you have to change so much it's not really the 7th Sea system any more.

Tam_OConnor
2008-12-11, 12:04 PM
I'm in favor of Serenity, because it goes out of its way to not use d20s. Almost as if it was for spite... Also, it models Star Wars surprisingly well with minor modifications.

Rhuadin
2008-12-11, 01:32 PM
Where's the guy who is always recommending Fudge? ;)

Grynning
2008-12-11, 04:01 PM
I'm in favor of Serenity, because it goes out of its way to not use d20s. Almost as if it was for spite... Also, it models Star Wars surprisingly well with minor modifications.

The Serenity RPG system is very, very similar to Savage Worlds, which also uses all the dice but the d20. It's just different enough to avoid a lawsuit. Savage Worlds is good for any genre, though it's generally best for low-power style games (characters start out fairly weak and the combat remains relatively lethal throughout).

Raum
2008-12-11, 05:15 PM
The Serenity RPG system is very, very similar to Savage Worlds, which also uses all the dice but the d20. It's just different enough to avoid a lawsuit. Savage Worlds is good for any genre, though it's generally best for low-power style games (characters start out fairly weak and the combat remains relatively lethal throughout).Savage Worlds lethality is managed by the bennies - if you want it lethal keep them rare and if you want it heroic hand out lots of them. :) It is a good system though. One thing, low power is relative - it's probably comparable to a level 5-10 D&D 3.x game. Beginning characters are better than a level 1 but experienced characters will probably never make even level 15 power.

A question for you on Serenity / Cortex system: is it really that close to Savage Worlds? I'd heard less than complementary things about it on other forums.

horseboy
2008-12-11, 05:19 PM
The Serenity RPG system is very, very similar to Savage Worlds, which also uses all the dice but the d20. It's just different enough to avoid a lawsuit. Savage Worlds is good for any genre, though it's generally best for low-power style games (characters start out fairly weak and the combat remains relatively lethal throughout).
The Battle Star Galactica also uses it, Earthdawn is it's super hero version. I can't remember the name of the engine, something like shinning stones or something.

Grynning
2008-12-11, 08:26 PM
A quick comparison of the two systems. The major difference is that in Savage Worlds you take the best of your skill and wild die when you roll, in Cortex you add skill to stat to get a result.

Cortex:

The Cortex System

The Cortex System is based on the Sovereign Stone System. The system described here is as it appears in the Serenity book. Margaret Weis Productions, Ltd released a refined and expanded version with their Battlestar Galactica game.[citation needed]

The dice used in the system are d2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12.

The system uses a variation of the dice pools system used by many different role-playing games. The primary variation arises from the use of different types of dice rather than increasing or decreasing the quantity of dice. The system has the potential to roll more than two dice, however, rolling more than six is incredibly unlikely.

The primary mechanic of the game rolling a die based on one of your "Attributes" and one of your "Skills" and then adding the total. Complications or Bonuses are reflected by "steps" which change the die type involved by one for each step. (e.g. A d10 with a 2 step penalty becomes a d6.)

The game uses a system of Disadvantages and Advantages to provide flavor to characters, as well as giving them various bonuses and penalties for dice rolls. This borrows from the Merit and Flaw system used by many role playing games including White Wolf in its World of Darkness line prior to its conversion to the Storytelling System, or in Steve Jackson Games GURPS system of Advantages and Disadvantages, Hero System, or Pinnacle Game's Savage Worlds game, which the Serenity system greatly resembles.

To increase the survivability of characters in the game as well as give players some impact on the game, the Cortex System uses plot points. These serve to allow the players to gain an extra die to roll or modify an existing roll. They can also be spent to try to influence the course of the story if the Game Master allows. These points are also used as a source of additional "Advancement Points" which are the same as experience points in other games.

Savage Worlds:

System

[edit] Character Creation

Player characters are built using a point allocation system, though game masters are encouraged to design non-player characters to the needs of the game rather than to fit the system. Characters in Savage Worlds are composed of a variety of statistics. These include Race, Traits, Edges, Hindrances and sometimes Powers.

A character's race usually refers to his or her species, though in some settings (such as the Pirates RPG) this may instead refer to nationality. In cases of the former, modifiers to other characteristics may apply; in cases of the latter, they typically do not.

A character's traits are characteristics that are rated by a single polyhedral die. The more sides the trait is rated in, the better the character is at the trait. So a character with a Strength trait of a ten-sided die (d10) is stronger than a character whose Strength trait is rated with a six-sided die (d6). Traits are divided into attributes, which are inherent and skills, which are learned. The five attributes used in Savage Worlds are Agility, Smarts, Spirit, Strength and Vigor. Some examples of skills in Savage Worlds include Fighting, Healing and Stealth.

Characters are also customized with advantages and disadvantages known as Edges and Hindrances. Edges and Hindrances, unlike Traits, are not rated with dice.

In addition to Traits, Edges and Hindrances, a character has the following derived statistics: Pace (ground speed), Parry (the ability to defend one's self), Toughness (resistance to damage) and Charisma (presence and charm). Some setting supplements add a fifth derived statistic such as Reason, Sanity or Grit.

[edit] Task resolution

Dice are rolled to determine the outcome of character actions and interactions in the game. Usually a trait die is rolled against a target number of four. If the roll equals or exceeds the target number, the action succeeds; otherwise it fails.

If a player rolls the highest number possible on a given die (such as an 8 on an eight-sided die), the die may be re-rolled and its result added to the initial roll. This is known as "Acing". A die may continue to Ace as long as the highest die number is rolled.

Player characters and significant non-player characters are known as "Wild Cards". Wild Cards get to roll a second die, known as a "Wild Die", alongside their trait rolls. This roll may Ace as normal. The player of the Wild Card uses the higher of the two rolls (trait die or Wild Die) to determine the actual result of the roll.

Combat initiative is determined by a standard deck of playing cards (with two jokers); characters act in sequence according to the fall of the cards from highest to lowest. Ties are broken by suit (in order from best to worst, spades, hearts, diamonds, clubs). Jokers beat all other cards and additionally give bonuses on rolls made in the round one receives them. The deck is shuffled at the end of every round in which a joker was dealt.

It's hard to say which came first - the Sovereign Stone game came out in 1999, but I can't find a publication date for The Great Rail Wars, the Deadlands spinoff wargame that formed the basis for the Savage Worlds system. It could just be a case of convergent evolution, since both systems are based around very modern theories on role-playing (cinematic story based role-playing, merits and flaws, points to spend to affect the narrative, etc).

Curmudgeon
2008-12-11, 08:59 PM
I mostly like the percentile system used in Runequest and Call of Cthulhu. The only significant weirdness inherent in using the system is the experience-based advancement. That encourages you to do strange things like switch to left-handed sword and right-handed shield for your last encounter before heading back to town for rest and training, because each check-mark for weapon/shield/skill use in the field gives you a chance to have automatically improved your skills -- which is much faster and cheaper than taking lessons.

Hawriel
2008-12-12, 02:24 AM
I love shadowrun 2nd/3rd ed. Star Wars D6. West End games still makes games. They have D6 Space (star wars 2.5/3rd ed?), Fantacy and modern. The systems asside from some terms are enterchangable.

Some one said they didnt like shadowrun 3rd ed because it lost the true feal of the SR world. for the mechanics stand point I thought it was a good edition. it cleaned up alot of stuff. Others things like vehicle combat still a pain. Tech wise it was a continuation of 2nd ed. It did have some wireless matrix stuff but that was mostly satellite connections which sufferd lag. A very small addition to the matrix rules. Easlily ignored. To me 3rd ed changed how peaple veiwed the game. It was the artwork. The artest that did third ed made every thing a waky Swartsinager action flick. No sublty or true fealing of desperation. And why did almost every woman have to have a needle gage on her nipple? The set up of the books where a shadow of what 1st and 2nds where. They where still written in 'in world shadowland BBS' format but it felt flat. Up untill after the comet book I still could read them and see the old shadowrun I enjoyed. The writing if different in feal still held some of the old game. However it was the artwork that buggs the crap out of me. 4th ed on the other hand. I dont like. AT all. Shadowrun had a tech defelopment from the 1980 and was set around a world and enviornment that promoted that kind of tech. It even justafied why some of it would be considered out dated today by the events and the worlds responce to thoughs events. 4th ed is a total rewrighte of shadowrun to conform with the techknowlegy of today and the culture of today..

wow rant

ok cool RPGs
Shadowrun 2/3rd ed. Star Wars D6 by west end games. also space, fantacy, modern d6. 7th Sea, the old version. Dead Lands, whare you need a deck of cards to cast spells. the old White wolf world of darkness vampire and warewolf. I have played alot of or read owned the books wich I liked reading.

Grail
2008-12-12, 02:50 AM
There are many games that I like, but most, if not all have problems with the game system. If DnD-esque d20 is what you dislike, I whole-heartedly suggest True20. It is, IMO what d20 would have been but for DnD.

When I finish my long-term DnD game, True20 is going to be the only system that I run games in. It adapts to all genres equally well, and the mechanics add for a very good mix of gritty/pulp heroics.

If you're just absolutely abhorred by using anything that is d20 in any style, then I don't know if I can really help you without further info.

Do you prefer rules lite, heavy, realistic, pulp, level-based, skill-based, dice heavy, dice lite, diceless?? there are almost as many game systems as there are games themselves.

Of course, Maelstrom is a good old one, and it has been re-released in pdf format.

Behold_the_Void
2008-12-12, 03:29 AM
I'm probably biased, but I'm rather fond of the anime-based tabletop system I'm developing, especially since I didn't really take to BESM at all.

Paranoia is a hell of a lot of fun, but I don't know if it necessarily counts. I'm really intrigued by Shadowrun and like what I've seen of it (I've made a character and basically understand how it works), but since I haven't had a chance to see it in action, I can't say for sure.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-12-12, 11:31 AM
I mostly like the percentile system used in Runequest and Call of Cthulhu. The only significant weirdness inherent in using the system is the experience-based advancement. That encourages you to do strange things like switch to left-handed sword and right-handed shield for your last encounter before heading back to town for rest and training, because each check-mark for weapon/shield/skill use in the field gives you a chance to have automatically improved your skills -- which is much faster and cheaper than taking lessons.

Mongoose's RuneQuest fixes this, among with many, many other things. (Like the ridiculous mortality rates, which requires house rules like the classic "10 SR to revive dead character before the soul departs," which is actually supported by some of the fiction, and leading to characters hoarding spirits with healing spells to heal them when they drop...)

toasty
2008-12-12, 11:57 AM
Love the setting of WFRP and DH... but my gaming group didn't. :D

I however also really, really, like the now no longer published RPG from FFG Fireborn. That game is amazing.

Animefunkmaster
2008-12-12, 12:00 PM
BESM. Even if you don't like anime, play it, it is wonderful.

Ninetail
2008-12-13, 01:33 AM
I haven't seen anyone mention HERO yet. It's not the easiest system to pick up, but if a little math doesn't scare you, I have yet to find a genre that can't be done in HERO. Anything from superheroes to horror to pulp to shoujo high-school romance... HERO can do it. And complex as it can get, it's still easier than GURPS. ^_^

If you can find a copy of the book, I'm also pretty fond of Nobilis. It's a game where the players are all playing something akin to gods, set among an eternal war against Things From Beyond that want to destroy or supplant reality, and among its focuses are court intrigue and romance. Oh, and it's diceless. It may be the most insane game I've ever played (in a good way).

Noneoyabizzness
2008-12-16, 01:26 PM
love the classic wod, but with it is my yearning for abberant. superpowers done right and broken

NeoVid
2008-12-16, 08:37 PM
Enough people have already listed WoD that I'll skip it and just recommend Feng Shui.

Salz
2008-12-16, 08:56 PM
Twilight 2013 - best war RPG and post-apocalyptic survival RPG.


After my own heart. I have the pre-order.

It uses d20's but not in the same way D&D or anything does. It's actually quiet awesome. Mainly you roll a certain number of dice depending on your proficiency at the task take the lowest and WA-LAH! Insta fun! Plus, see the 10 people in this room? 9 are dead... isn't this fun?


I would also suggest:

Aces and Eights
Insylum (only the idea... don't use any system really... especially not the one in the setting)
Harnmaster
All Flesh Must Be Eaten
Twilight: 2000 (1st Edition)
Call of Cthulhu

zaei
2008-12-16, 11:26 PM
Spirit of the Century (and probably FATE, which it's based on) is one of the most elegant systems I've come across. I've not tried it for anything other than pulp adventure yet, but it's the best pulp adventure game there is. You can get the complete text online for free, but I found it a much easier read when I actually bought the book.

Totally agree. FATE blew my mind the first time I read through the rules. And soon, The Dresden Files RPG will be published, using an updated ruleset =]

Bosh
2008-12-17, 12:01 AM
Spirit of the Century (and probably FATE, which it's based on) is one of the most elegant systems I've come across. I've not tried it for anything other than pulp adventure yet, but it's the best pulp adventure game there is. You can get the complete text online for free, but I found it a much easier read when I actually bought the book.

This, this, a thousand times this :)

Only real problem is that characters are just a bit too tough, but that's easy to change and you can read the game for free here:

http://www.crackmonkey.org/~nick/loyhargil/fate3/fate3.html