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Geethree
2004-07-15, 02:45 AM
DISCIPLE OF G-3
Long ago, almost beyond the recall of even the oldest creatures alive today, there lived a famous wizard who loyally served his king. The king, however, had a problem. He was faced with a massive enemy nation that was preparing for war and enlisted the wizard to help him find a solution before the nation gathered enough strength to attack the kingdom. The wizard slaved away, creating many golems in the process. Some were built for combat, others for menial jobs. The wizard did not have the time to name all of them, so he simply gave them a designation. The most famous of these golems was designated G-3.

The wizard perished. Nobody knows how or why, or even when really. However, his golems continued his work as they were built to do. They gathered resources and kept his work area tidy, but they lacked the magical power necessary to finish the wizardís great plans. Most of the wizardís golems stopped working entirely, though G-3 persisted. Somehow, and this is hotly debated among great historians, G-3 learned to wield arcane magic. In fact, he learned it too well. He swiftly became one of the most powerful wizards in the land. But he never strayed from his task. He eventually completed his masterís work and defeated the enemy army.

Much of this story is lost to the ages. Who was this wizard? What was the kingdom? How did G-3 defeat the army? Disciples of G-3 seek to answer those questions and unlock their own magical potential. Wizards are most likely to adopt this path, for they believe that the golem gained such power through rigorous study and practice. Others, primarily sorcerers, believe that G-3 gained his power by actually becoming semi-sentient (or fully), utilizing the greatest gifts of consciousness combined with a golemís single-minded focus to achieve power. Whatever they believe, the path they choose is the same: to study magic so similarly to G-3 so as to almost become a golem oneself. Only through a thorough and comprehensive study of magic can ones true potential be revealed.

As a Disciple of G-3 gains power, he begins to sustain himself through arcane means. They slowly detach from their physical body and do not require mortal distractions such as food and sleep. Because they can sustain themselves magically, they also become resistant to harmful effects such as poison. However, this comes at a price. Some believe that Disciples of G-3 lose touch with themselves, becoming so focused on magic that they not only detach from their physical body, but also their soul.

Prerequisites
Feats: Iron Will, Any Two Metamagic Feats
Skills: Knowledge(Arcana) 10 ranks, Concentration 5 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks
Special: Able to cast arcane spells of 4th level or greater; must have learned the G-3 story from somebdy who actually witnessed the golem (which means a very old creature), or to have researched the story very thoroughly (though the vast majority of libraries would not have much information on the subject).

Hit Dice: d4

Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points: 2 + int mod per level

Level BAB FORT REF WILL SPECIAL SPELLS PER DAY
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Arcane Secret +1 spellcasting level
2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Golem Drift 1 +1 spellcasting level
3 +1 +1 +1 +3 Arcane Secret +1 spellcasting level
4 +2 +1 +1 +4 - +1 spellcasting level
5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Improved Arcane Secret, Metamagic Feat +1 spellcasting level
6 +3 +2 +2 +5 Golem Drift 2 +1 spellcasting level
7 +3 +2 +2 +5 Improved Arcane Secret +1 spellcasting level
8 +4 +2 +2 +6 - +1 spellcasting level
9 +4 +3 +3 +6 Greater Arcane Secret +1 spellcasting level
10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Golem Drift Completion +1 spellcasting level


Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: the Disciple of G-3 gains no weapon or armor proficiencies.

Spells per Day/Spells known: When a new Disciple of G-3 level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast 4th-level spells before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast 4th-level spells before he became a Disciple of G-3, he must decide to which class he adds each level of Disciple of G-3 for the purpose of determining spells per day.

Arcane Secret: Choose one spell of 2nd level or lower and one of the following feats: enlarge spell, extend spell, silence spell, or still spell. That spell is always cast as though the chosen feat was applied to it, and it does not require a higher level spell slot to cast. The character must know the metamagic feat in order to select it. After choosing the spell and feat, the choice can never be changed. Also, any given spell may only be modified with Arcane Secret once. In other words, a spellcaster cannot use multiple Arcane Secrets (or Improved or Greater) on the same spell in order to have multiple feats applied to it.

Spontaneous spellcasters (such as a sorcerer) do not suffer an increase in casting time for spells modified through Arcane Secret, though other metamagic feat time increases still apply.

Golem Drift 1: The Disciple of G-3ís desire to be like a golem gives it golem traits. The character gains immunity to natural poison and does not need to eat, but cannot receive the benefits of magical potions or food. The character gains +2 on saving throws against supernatural poison and disease effects (both mundane and supernatural), such as a mummy's mummy rot.

Improved Arcane Secret: As Arcane Secret, but the chosen spell may be of 4th level or lower. Alternatively, the spellcaster could choose one spell of 2nd level or lower and choose to have it always cast as though the metamagic feat empower spell was used, though it does not require a higher level spell slot to cast. The character must know the metamagic feat in order to select it.

Metamagic Feat: the Disciple of G-3 gains a bonus metamagic feat.

Golem Drift 2: the Disciple of G-3 does not need to sleep and cannot become fatigued or exhausted, but you can never recover damage (even ability damage) naturally. She still needs 8 hours to regain spells, but it is a meditative trance and not true sleep. The character also gains +2 to saving throws against sleep effects.

Greater Arcane Secret: as Improved Arcane Secret, but a spell may be chosen of 6th level or lower if enlarge spell, extend spell, silence spell, or still spell is chosen. If Empower Spell is chosen, it can be applied to any spell of 4th level or lower. The spellcaster can also choose to have Widen Spell or Maximize Spell applied to one spell of 2nd level or lower. The character must know the metamagic feat in order to select it.

Golem Drift Completion: the Disciple of G-3 suffers a -5 penalty on bluff, diplomacy, and gather information checks. She becomes stoic ands stony. The character gains low-light vision, darkvision out to 60 feet, immunity to all mind-affecting effects, immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, necromancy effects, and the character does not have to breathe. However, the character only receives half of the normal benefits from healing spells of the healing subschool and cannot be raised or resurrected except by true resurrection.

Zagaroth
2004-07-18, 02:35 PM
OK, a few notes:

Mummy Rot is a disease, not a poison

For Golem Drift Completion, I would say maybe add 'gains the construct type', though that woudl entail the loss of the Con ability score, and I woudl definatly state that the repair spells work on the Disciple fo G-3, even if they do not gain the construct type.

Geethree
2004-07-18, 05:07 PM
For Golem Drift Completion, I would say maybe add 'gains the construct type', though that woudl entail the loss of the Con ability scoreI don't want them to become a Golem entirely. The idea is that they slowly detach from their physical self and basically sustain themselves purely through arcane magic.

and I woudl definatly state that the repair spells work on the Disciple fo G-3, even if they do not gain the construct type.I was thinking of not allowing the 10th level Disciple to be healed by Healing spells at all, only by repair spells. However, repair spells aren't core and I wanted to keep this class core, so I compromised by letting them only receive half the normal effect of healing spells.


Mummy Rot is a disease, not a poison My bad. Consider it fixed. I changed Golem Drift 1 to apply to supernatural diseases as well.

Geethree
2004-07-19, 07:09 PM
Modified the introduction somewhat and added the Spells per Day/Spells Known description.

Musrum
2004-07-19, 09:40 PM
I don't want them to become a Golem entirely. The idea is that they slowly detach from their physical self and basically sustain themselves purely through arcane magic.


You could make them a living construct like the Warforged, and maybe allow the golem drifts to affect the warforged like the Warforged Juggernught...

Geethree
2004-07-20, 01:19 AM
You could make them a living construct like the Warforged, and maybe allow the golem drifts to affect the warforged like the Warforged Juggernught...That was another thing I had considered, but the living construct type isn't core. Besides, while this class is pretty versatile and open-ended, I don't think it's suited for Eberron. In the context of Eberron, the answer to "What was G-3?" is pretty obvious: an early warforged. That's not to say it has to be, but it makes so much more sense and I don't see the legend of G-3 being such a, well, legend, since there's such an easy explanation for it.

If I were to use this class in my Eberron games, I'd definitely give it an overhaul. It would probably be designed specifically around warforged spellcasters, allowing them to overcome all of the penalties they have with magic.

Musrum
2004-07-20, 04:40 AM
The Juggernaut spellcaster is a cool idea, which I think should be built.

G-3 could come from Xen'drik (where the docents are found.) That's enough mystery for most tastes...

Geethree
2004-07-20, 05:05 PM
G-3 could come from Xen'drik (where the docents are found.) That's enough mystery for most tastes...Well, most of the mystery surrounding G-3 is how it actually learned to cast magic. There's nothing stopping warforged from casting magic so that entire facet of the G-3 legend is lost.

Zherog
2004-07-23, 02:45 PM
Very nice class. I particularly like the way you used your Screen Name - very creative. A few comments.


<<snipped flavor text>>

Nice. Explains the background of the class well.


Prerequisites
Feats: Iron Will, Any Two Metamagic Feats
Skills: Knowledge(Arcana) 10 ranks, Concentration 10 ranks
Special: Able to cast arcane spells of 4th level or greater; must have learned the G-3 story from somebdy who actually witnessed the golem (which means a very old creature), or to have researched the story very thoroughly (though the vast majority of libraries would not have much information on the subject).

Good pre-reqs, that seem to fit the nature of the class. I might ponder adding a few ranks in Spellcraft, but I don't think it's necessary. Very few casters don't have those ranks anyway.


Hit Dice: d4

Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points: 2 + int mod per level

Good hit die and skill list, and an appropriate number of skill points per level.


Arcane Secret: Choose one spell of 2nd level or lower and one of the following feats: enlarge spell, extend spell, silence spell, or still spell. That spell is always cast as though the chosen feat was applied to it, and it does not require a higher level spell slot to cast. The character must know the metamagic feat in order to select it.

I've seen this ability in a handful of other classes, and I've always liked it. Two comments, that apply to all the versions of this.

1) You should specify that once the spell and feat combo is selected it can never ben changed.
2) You should specify that spontaneous casters do not have their casting time increased (unless you want that, of course, in which case you may want to specifically mention that.)


Golem Drift 1:

Nice. You split up the "transformation" process nicely, spreading out the bonuses across the levels in an even and fair manner.

A very interesting class, with a lot of flavor and cool hooks for a DM to use if a player wants to go this path!

Geethree
2004-07-24, 04:28 PM
1) You should specify that once the spell and feat combo is selected it can never ben changed. Consider it changed.

2) You should specify that spontaneous casters do not have their casting time increased (unless you want that, of course, in which case you may want to specifically mention that.) I don't want an increase in time for spontaneous casters, so consider that changed as well.

I might ponder adding a few ranks in Spellcraft, but I don't think it's necessary. Very few casters don't have those ranks anyway. I had Spellcraft ranks initially, but between the other two skill prereqs and the feat I decided it was just too many prerequisites. I still might add a few ranks since it does fit the flavor of the class.

Geethree
2004-07-24, 04:40 PM
I decided to compromise between Concentration and Spellcraft, making their prereqs both 5 ranks. I didn't want to make a third 10 rank prereq as that would make this class harder to attain for sorcerers.

Fsi-Dib
2004-07-29, 05:36 AM
I find this PrC quite basic, but still intriguing and good. It suits for a primary spellcaster and the possibility to cast Fireballs as Empowered isn't a bad thing, though the bonus is quite small after some time.

I was wondering... do you find Quicken Spell too good? I'd say you should have the chance to make one 1st-level spell always as quickened. But then again, I can't say anything accurately without playtesting. Consider my idea though.

Geethree
2004-07-29, 12:06 PM
There are two main reasons I chose not to include Quicken Spell. Firstly, it won't work for sorcerers and bards. They normally can't use quickened spell and I don't want to make my class an exception to that rule. Secondly, I worry about it either being broken or not impressive enought to warrant a high level ability. Being able to spontaneously cast Magic Missile every turn in addition to everything else is a great thing and essentially adds 5d4+5 to every spell you cast; but Charm Person isn't exactly a spell you need to cast quickened.

I find this PrC quite basicIt was hard to think of cool abilities that weren't overpowered. I think making full-progression arcane spellcaster PrC is one of the harder things to do since the core classes don't get many abilities themselves.

Thanks for the feedback.

Vik
2004-07-29, 02:05 PM
By the way, I don't understand why they put this limitation about spontaneous casting and quicken spell.

The SRD says :
If the spell's normal casting time is 1 action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn't the same as a 1-round casting time.). For a spell with a longer casting time, it takes an extra full-round action to cast the spell.Nothing about free-action casting spells : a spell like Feather Fall could then be cast with a metamagic feat as a free action.
Then, considering the Quicken spell feat :

- If the penalty applies before the feat effect, the spell casting time increase from one action to one full round action, and then back to one free action (but that mean you can't use quicken spell with a spell having a full-round action casting time).
- If the penalty applies after the feat effect, then the spell casting time is decreased to a free action, and thus is not concerned by the metamagic and spontaneous casting limitation.

mimicgogo
2004-07-29, 10:34 PM
I like this class more as an NPC class, something to be followed by the players. Perhaps they could eventually find out the answers to the questions concerning the G-3, or maybe even the find the golem itself. Definately something cool for a long-term quest.

Just out of curiosity, where does your screen name actually come from?

Geethree
2004-07-29, 10:42 PM
Just out of curiosity, where does your screen name actually come from?It is also a designation. I am one of four children in my family. We all have middle names starting with G (and we all go by our middle name). I was the third one born. Hence, G3, which was expanded to Geethree about 7 years ago because Hotmail would not accept a name as short as G3.

Mohko
2004-07-31, 09:39 AM
I find this PRC overpowered. At 10th level I can have a stilled silenced empowered maximized scorching ray with a 2nd level slot. And I can add my own metamagic feats if I please. 3 rays, each of them does 4*6+4d6/2. Average damage for one ray is 31. Three rays (if each hits) mean 93 points of fire damage. With a 2nd level slot. If I quicken another scorching ray for a 6th level slot I can do 186 points of fire damage in one round.

Let's compare that to a fireball. 10d6 damage. Average is 35 damage to several targets if save fails. A level 3 slot.

Okay, let's compare it with horrid wilting at caster level 20. Average damage is 70 points of damage on multiple creatures if save fails.

Let's compare it with a meteor swarm. 8d6 bludgeoning and 24d6 points of fire damage. Average damage is 112 points of damage.

Conclusion: If I want to do more damage to a single opponent I have to use 9th level slot. And If I use quicken, scoreching ray's damage is again grerater. Anyone else see a problem with this?


Golem Drift Completion: the Disciple of G-3 suffers a -5 penalty on bluff, diplomacy, and gather information checks. She becomes stoic ands stony. The character gains low-light vision, darkvision out to 60 feet, immunity to all mind-affecting effects, immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, necromancy effects, and the character does not have to breathe. However, the character only receives half of the normal benefits from healing spells of the healing subschool.

Show me a mage who doesn't want this.

Starbuck_II
2004-07-31, 10:19 AM
Those that like being healed by their cleric freinds would'nt like Golem Drift Completion ;D

But Mages accuracy isn't too grand so he could fail with the hitting. However, against fire creatures that ray will be bad and you'd have to turn to other spells.

A empowered maximized ray would normally be a 7th level slot much better than horrid wilting: so really the ray is superior always.
Its not the classes fault the ray is good.

Mohko
2004-07-31, 11:50 AM
Those that like being healed by their cleric freinds would'nt like Golem Drift Completion ;D

But Mages accuracy isn't too grand so he could fail with the hitting. However, against fire creatures that ray will be bad and you'd have to turn to other spells.

A empowered maximized ray would normally be a 7th level slot much better than horrid wilting: so really the ray is superior always.
Its not the classes fault the ray is good.

And if stilled and silent it's 9th level slot. Normally. Horrid wilting is 8th level spell, so theoretically it should be better. But the point is, that you can burn every single slot above 1st level slots for this, not just 7th, 8th and 9th level slots.

My calculations for average damage include favorable conditions for spellcaster. nobody made their saves and every touch attack was successful. And the only spell that beated scorching ray's damage was meteor swarm. That spell makes four touch attacks.

And accuracy is not a problem. At 20th level you have a base attack bonus of +10 and decent dexterity. Scorching ray creates three rays, touch attacks. E.g. a huge dragon has about 5% chance of avoiding a ray.

If we include splatbooks we can take energy substitution and energy resistance becomes a minor problem.

Geethree
2004-07-31, 02:32 PM
I was wary of adding Maximize Spell as one of the available feats, and I see that somebody has indeed found a way to abuse it. I'll look into it.


Show me a mage who doesn't want this.It's worse than it seems because of earlier penalties. At 10th level, the mage cannot heal damage naturally, cannot make use of things like Potions, and only receives half the normal benefit of healing spells.

And it's not supposed to be a give-and-take thing. Obviously the benefits have to exceed the penalties or nobody would take this class. I'll look at it again though, and see if anything needs modification.

Geethree
2004-07-31, 02:40 PM
I added this to Arcane Secret:

Also, any given spell may only be modified with Arcane Secret once. In other words, a spellcaster cannot use multiple Arcane Secrets (or Improved or Greater) on the same spell in order to have multiple feats applied to it. I see now that being able to apply it several times to one spell is just asking for trouble, especially when the countless variables of splatbooks and supplements come into play.

Also, Golem Drift Completion now also says that a character cannot be raised or resurrected except by the true resurrection spell.

Starbuck_II
2004-07-31, 05:51 PM
Howe about you can add twice? Because once is just sorta weak, but I guess once isn't over powered at least ;D

Geethree
2004-07-31, 09:56 PM
Twice still allows for Empower + Maximize, which is a combo that is pretty nasty that I hadn't seen. I still think the Arcane Secret is useful, though. Judging starts tomorrow anyway so I think I'll just leave it as is.

Geethree
2004-08-02, 02:18 AM
I'm gonna get one last post in before this is locked. I could actually see The Giant making his way down the threads just before this, leaving a trail of padlock symbols 8)

Porter
2005-08-15, 06:54 AM
I know it is old, but, I would just like to make a clarification on a correction. 'mummy rot is a disease, not a poison', correct, almost. Mummy rot is a curse with a disease portion.

Page 191 MM 3.5

Mummy Rot is a powerful curse, not a natural disease. ... To eliminate mummy rot, the curse must first be broken with break enchantment or remove curse after which ... the mummy rot can be magicaly cured as any normal disease.

I do appologize if this has already been mentioned, I did not see it, so I felt safe in saying it.