PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Bladethief



Elder Brain
2008-12-13, 04:52 PM
HD: d8
Good Saves: Reflex
BAB: As Cleric, except gains extra attack every 4th bonus, instead of every 5th
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Daggers, Light Armor

Class Skills: (6+int. Mod.) Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration (after 10th Level), Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gather Information, Hide, Innuendo, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Profession, Sleight of Hand, Read Lips, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim, Tumble, Use Magic Device, Use Psionic Device

Class Features:
1st-Two-Weapon Fighting, Sneak Attack +1d6, Double Knife Defense +1
2nd-Poison Use, Wep Foc. (dagger)
3rd-Sneak Attack +2d6, Uncanny Dodge
4th-Create Dagger, Augmented Damage: 1d6
5th-Double Knife Defense +2, Defensive Throw
6th-Sneak Attack +3d6, Nonproficiency (2-handed Weapons)
7th-Augmented Damage: 1d8
8th-Create Dagger (+1), Evasion
9th-Sneak Attack +4d6
10th-Spells, Blur 3/Day, Armored Casting, Augmented Damage: 1d10, Double Knife Defense +3
11th-
12th-Sneak Attack, Sneak Attack +5d6, Create Dagger (+2)
13th-
14th-Nonproficiency (One-Handed Weapons)
15th-Sneak Attack +5d6, Double Knife Defense +4, Plane Shift 1/day
16th-Create Dagger (+3)
17th-Dagger Swap 2/day
18th-Sneak Attack +6d6, Nonproficiency (all nondaggers)
19th-
20th-Double Knife Defense +5, Create Dagger (+4), Blur (at will) Plane Shift 3/day

Two-Weapon Fighting: As the feat, but only applies when the Bladethief is fighting with 2 Daggers. Bladethieves make the same number of attacks a round with both of their weapons.

Sneak Attack: As the Rouge Ability, Progresses every 3rd Level

Double Knife Defense: When a Bladethief dual-wields Daggers s/he gains a bonus to AC. This bonus increases every 5th Level

Poison Use: A Bladethief never risks poisoning her/himself when applying poison to a dagger

Uncanny Dodge: As Rouge Ability

Create Dagger: As an Immediate Action a Bladethief may create a Dagger from the particles around him/her. This Counts towards the Limit of one Immediate Action per Round. At 8th level the Created Daggers are treated as +1 Weapons for the purpose of overcoming Damage Reduction. This Bonus Increases every 4th Level.

Augmented Damage: A dagger in the hands of a Bladethief can be as damaging as any short, long, or hand-and-a-half sword. The Damage replaces
the base damage of a dagger

Defensive Throw: Bladethieves do not provoke attacks of Opportunity when they throw daggers

Nonproficiency: Bladethieves are so focused in Daggers that they wield large weapons unwell, taking an additional -4 penalty to all attack rolls with the listed type of weapon. If a Bladethief has proficiency of one of the listed weapons (from feats or multiclassing) s/he losses the proficiency of the weapon

Evasion: As the Rouge Class feature

Spells: Bladethieves can cast a limited number of spells. They Learn and cast spells as an Assassin of Bladethief Level -9, except that a Bladethief must be holding a Dagger for Spells with Somatic Gestures

Armored Casting: Bladethieves do not suffer Arcane Spells Failure when wearing Light Armor.

*Sorry about the Class Feature List-I don't know how to make a Chart, Otherwise I'd have put BAB and Spells Known/per day
*Again, Sorry that I repeated Words a lot. I know it's kinda redundant

Glooble Glistencrist
2008-12-13, 08:18 PM
I don't really know how to make a chart either. Here's what I do:

1. Find a table like the one you want (a base class)
2. Quote the first page.
3. Copy the table and paste it into your own post.
4. Erase the information and add your own.

As for the class, it's hard to say, but I don't see the reason for the irregular base attack bonus. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure all classes in 3.5 have either Full, 3/4, or 1/2 base attack, and everyone gets an extra attack per +5. Mixing that up is something I'd only do if you have a very good reason.

Also, without any kind of fluff, it seems like some of these abilities are pretty random. Some background would be nice.

RS14
2008-12-13, 09:41 PM
I agree with Glooble Glistencrist on the subject of the BAB. It will interact confusingly with other classes, and doesn't add much. Perhaps grant a bonus attack at medium or high levels.

Are they proficient with knives? If you want them to be able to use kukris, they should probably be mentioned in the proficiencies.
I think the extra non-proficiency penalty is unnecessary. Deny them from ever having any other proficiencies as soon as they enter the class and call it enough. It's not as if anyone is likely to choose a weapon they're nonproficient in as a primary weapon anyway.

Innuendo and Read Lips are no longer skills in 3.5. They have been folded into bluff and spot respectively.


This Counts towards the Limit of one Immediate Action per Round.
This is assumed.

Daggers from Create Dagger need to disappear after one round or something, so the Bladethief can't just produce them to sell. Also, consider making it a free action so that the Bladethief can draw and throw daggers quickly.


At 8th level the Created Daggers are treated as +1 Weapons for the purpose of overcoming Damage Reduction. This Bonus Increases every 4th Level.
Are they treated as magic weapons for the purposes of overcoming DR, or do they actually grant the bonus to attack and damage? I assume the latter, so just say that they are +1 weapons.

Augmented Dagger is phrased confusingly. Perhaps...


Augmented Damage (Ex): In the hands of a Bladethief, a dagger deals greater damage than its size would suggest. The base damage of a medium dagger becomes 1d6 at 4th level, 1d8 at 7th level, and 1d10 at 10th level.

Spellcasting is weak. It shows up late. Also, a 20th level bladetheif casts as a 11th level assassin... which casts just the same as a 10th level assassin. I might just eliminate it.

What does Dagger Swap do?

Plane Shift seems sort of out of place.

Blur comes out of nowhere. It should probably be granted 1 and 2 times per day at lower levels. Also understand that a level 20 blade-thief can use this constantly, so can hide-in-plain-sight and has a constant 20% miss chance. I feel like it should have some limit, even as a capstone. Perhaps it leaves the Bladethief fatigued, like a Barbarian's rage. I'll need to think about this though.

I'm no good at judging balance, so I'll let someone else do that.

Elder Brain
2008-12-16, 07:09 PM
Ok. Thanks for the input. I'll work on it a bit more and maybe post a revised edition.

The Minx
2008-12-17, 09:46 AM
How to make tables:

Define the beginning and end with "table" tags, like this, except remove the asterisks: {table=head*] <bla bla bla> [/table*]
Separate the lines of the table with lines of text.
Separate cells of a line with this symbol: | (I can use the "Alt Gr" + "<" keys to get it).
Use [center*] and [b*] tags, etc. within each cell to center or bold otherwise modify the text as normal.
Be careful that you put the opening and closing table tags in the same line as the first and last lines rather than above and below them, or the table gets screwed up for some reason.
You can leave cells blank simply by typing the |s together with nothing between them.

For instance:

{table=head*]column 1[/b*]|column 2|column 3|column 4
[center*]cell 1a[/center*]|cell 2a|cell 3a|cell 4a
cell 1b|cell 2b|cell 3b|cell 4b
cell 1c|cell 2c|cell 3c|cell 4c
cell 1d|cell 2d||cell 4d[/table*]

Removing the asterisks gives:

{table=head][b]column 1|column 2|column 3|column 4

cell 1a|cell 2a|cell 3a|cell 4a
cell 1b|cell 2b|cell 3b|cell 4b
cell 1c|cell 2c|cell 3c|cell 4c
cell 1d|cell 2d||cell 4d[/table]

Note the fancy formatting in the top cell for column 1 and in "cell 1a", and the missing entry for what would have been "cell 3d".

Samurai Jill
2008-12-17, 07:17 PM
Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten that... is there any way to insert extra spaces in the column headings, so that the characters are right up against the border?..

The Minx
2008-12-18, 06:27 AM
I think you meant "is there any way to insert extra spaces in the column headings, so that the characters are NOT right up against the border?"

If so, yes: you can use "....." with the color set to the background color (which is "sienna" in the top line).

Like so:

{table=head*].....[/COLOR*]column 1[COLOR="Sienna"*].....[/COLOR*][/b*]|column 2|column 3|column 4
[center*]cell 1a[/center*]|cell 2a|cell 3a|cell 4a
cell 1b|cell 2b|cell 3b|cell 4b
cell 1c|cell 2c|cell 3c|cell 4c
cell 1d|cell 2d||cell 4d[/table*]

Remove asterisks, which gives:

{table=head][b][COLOR="Sienna"].....column 1.....|column 2|column 3|column 4

cell 1a|cell 2a|cell 3a|cell 4a
cell 1b|cell 2b|cell 3b|cell 4b
cell 1c|cell 2c|cell 3c|cell 4c
cell 1d|cell 2d||cell 4d[/table]



BTW, if you just put in {table*] <bla bla bla> [/table*] instead of {table=head*] then there is no dark brown header line. Like so:

{table*]column 1|column 2|column 3|column 4
cell 1a|cell 2a|cell 3a|cell 4a
cell 1b|cell 2b|cell 3b|cell 4b
cell 1c|cell 2c|cell 3c|cell 4c
cell 1d|cell 2d||cell 4d[/table*]

Remove asterisks gives:

{table]column 1|column 2|column 3|column 4
cell 1a|cell 2a|cell 3a|cell 4a
cell 1b|cell 2b|cell 3b|cell 4b
cell 1c|cell 2c|cell 3c|cell 4c
cell 1d|cell 2d||cell 4d[/table]

Samurai Jill
2008-12-18, 07:26 PM
Thanks aplenty. That is indeed what I meant! :smallsmile:

lesser_minion
2008-12-19, 07:24 PM
I quite like the idea of a dagger specialist character, and in general there seem to be no major issues.

There are a couple of 3.0 elements left in the class, however - Damage Reduction bypassed by magic weapons now only has two grades, +1 (magic) and +6 (epic). Also, DR 15/silver, for example, cannot be bypassed by a +1 sword (unless it's a +1 silvered sword). There are now also DR types bypassed by specific weapon types (e.g. bludgeoning or slashing) - you may need to permit a single bludgeoning weapon and a single slashing weapon to avoid the character being useless against certain enemies.

I think it should be OK just to declare the Create +1 dagger to grant a full bonus rather than just against DR, though. The fact that it no longer ignores things like silver damage reduction and cold iron damage reduction, and the general reduction in the effect of DR (no DR 40/+4 any more...) more than makes up for it in terms of balance.

You could probably offer a special material dagger at 12th level and an aligned dagger at 16th as well.

Elder Brain
2008-12-20, 07:55 PM
I quite like the idea of a dagger specialist character, and in general there seem to be no major issues.

There are a couple of 3.0 elements left in the class, however - Damage Reduction bypassed by magic weapons now only has two grades, +1 (magic) and +6 (epic). Also, DR 15/silver, for example, cannot be bypassed by a +1 sword (unless it's a +1 silvered sword). There are now also DR types bypassed by specific weapon types (e.g. bludgeoning or slashing) - you may need to permit a single bludgeoning weapon and a single slashing weapon to avoid the character being useless against certain enemies.

I think it should be OK just to declare the Create +1 dagger to grant a full bonus rather than just against DR, though. The fact that it no longer ignores things like silver damage reduction and cold iron damage reduction, and the general reduction in the effect of DR (no DR 40/+4 any more...) more than makes up for it in terms of balance.

You could probably offer a special material dagger at 12th level and an aligned dagger at 16th as well.

Ok, thanks. I didn't have access to a 3.5 core when I made the class, and I forgot to update it :) thanks for the input, I may post a more clear version later.