Magic with Consequences (3.5 House Rule)

[Scalenex]

There's been a lot of talk about casters (especially arcane casters) being overpowered. Also, in nearly every mythos save D&D, using magic has consequences. I created a loose system that hopefully limits magic's power without making magic so weakened that no one wants to play a wizard or sorcerer.

Arcane spells have a chance for failure, and a small chance for a spectacular or critical failure.

First they make a caster level check, 1d20+level, difficulties are below and a natural 1 always fails, though if you can cast 3rd level spells your cantrips no longer have a failure chance, if you can cast 4th level spells your 1st level spells no longer have a failure chance. This reflects an increasing mastery of lesser spells.

Specialists may add 2 to their checks for their specialized school (specialist seldom fail at their specialty). Optionally, you can add 1 for casting in non-stressful situations (ie not during combat).

If a natural 1 is rolled on a casting check, roll again. If another failure is rolled, the spell fails critically and the caster has offended the powers that be through his/her tampering with the natural world.

What happens is left up to the DM based on how serious the DM wants the backfires to be (humorous, annoying, or deadly) and should reflect both the level of the spell (higher level spells have more serious critical failures). A good starting point is the exact opposite of what is intended. Would-be invisible creatures stand out vividly, attack spells rebound on the caster or his/her allies, etc. The chances of this happening are relatively slight, but is possible with each and every spell cast, forcing wizards and sorcerers to think through the spells they cast.

Difficulties for casting rolls are below.

Level of Spell Required caster level check
0th 5
1st 7
2nd 9
3rd 11
4th 13
5th 15
6th 17
7th 19
8th 21
9th 23

I thought about giving sorcerers +1 on their checks because they're wielding innate talents and thus are not tampering with the natural world and thus spitting in mother nature's face, but they already have an advantage here because they get their spells later, they can make their caster level checks easier. Likewise because other casters like bards and hex blades get their spells even slower they have even lower chances of miscasting. I don't know whether I want to give them that counterbalancing advantage or give them higher difficulty numbers. Expensive spell components are only used up on a critical failure, not a regular failure.

Notice that the highest possible chance spell failure can get is 25% and the highest possible chance of a critical failure is less than 2%. This can be modified up or down by raising or lowering the required number.

I don't know if divine casters would face something similar. This system could be adapted relatively easily but divine casters already have a consequence system. They need to stay true to the ideals of their divine patron or chosen cause. A diety can always just revoke some or all spellcasting powers if they feel their servant is unworthy or just simply using their powers frivolously Someone devoted to an ideal like a cleric of a cause or a druid can lose spellcasting powers if they stray from their ideals.

[jacob.swadron]

I find this very well though out and balanced. However, I find that the constant gap of +2 to each spell level DC makes it a bit to easy. I suggest a different pattern might be used.

As for divine casters, its usually not a problem for them to stay in there gods favor. All's they have to do is call a cure light wound's spell cuthbert's healing and they get brownie points. Rarely does do clerical oaths affect the game. A divine caster alternative is that you might roll to get spells at the days beginning when you normally get your spells.

[Scalenex]

Well I wasn't intending for it to be a huge change, if it turned out to not be strong enough I could always change it. But a mild tweak is less likely to piss off players enough to ruin a campaign.

The reason the difficulties are 2 apart is because I wanted a first level wizard has the same chance of failure (or a critical failure) casting a first level spell (which he just learned how to cast) as a 17th level wizard has casting a ninth level spell (which he just learned to cast). Note a critical miscast is more dangerous for higher level spells, it would be unfair if it was more dangerous and more likely.

If you wanted divine casting to have the same chance of failing or backfiring, the same numbers could apply to druids, clerics, and favored souls.

[Jack_Simth]

I thought about giving sorcerers +1 on their checks because they're wielding innate talents and thus are not tampering with the natural world and thus spitting in mother nature's face, but they already have an advantage here because they get their spells later, they can make their caster level checks easier.
Umm... that's not really an advantage to Sorcerers - the Wizard-5 who does not cast his 3rd level spells has exactly the same failure chance as the Sorcerer-5 who doesn't have 3rd level spells. The Wizard still has the advantage, there - any 2nd level or lower spell the Wizard casts has exactly the same failure rate as any 2nd level or lower spell the Sorcerer casts. Wizard has the option of casting an 3rd level spell, the Sorcerer doesn't. Advantage: Wizard. This will be true at odd levels from 3rd to 17th (each level where the Wizard has a spell access advantage - levels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17). At all other levels (1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18+), the Wizard and Sorcerer spell failure rate under this house-rule. If you're better in some circumstances, and eqaul in others, you're better overall. This change marginally favors the Wizard over the Sorcerer (in combat, at least, where you can't simply try again). At least, it's marginal until:

Specialists may add 2 to their checks for their specialized school (specialist seldom fail at their specialty).
You get to this aspect of the house-rule. The Conjourer-5 who prepares multiple copies of Glitterdust (Will save or lose), Web (Reflex save or lose), and Stinking Cloud (Fort save or lose) can target any save, and needs to roll only a 4 for his 3rd level spell (Stinking Cloud), or a 2 for his others. For, oh, Grease, he's only concerned about the auto-fail. Meanwhile, the Sorcerer-5 making use of his second level spells needs to roll a 4 for his 2nd level spells, and a 2 for his 1st level spells.

The change as listed favors specialist Wizards quite heavily (although it's still a penalty compared to the default).

[AlphaBravo]

my suggestion:

DC 12+Spell Level+Caster Level skill check (using your primary casting mod instead of the normally used mod)

Sorcerers and Favored Souls Caster Level+5 (Instead of skill check, and if you lower the caster level for the spell, the caster level bonus to check does not decrease)
Wizards and Wu-Jen Knowledge (Arcana). Specialists add +2 on their specialist school
Clerics and Paladins Knowledge (Religion)
Druids, Spirit Shamans and Rangers Knowledge (Nature)
Warmages, Beguilers, and Dread Necromancers Caster Level+3 (Instead of skill check, and if you lower the caster level for the spell, the caster level bonus to check does not decrease)

You can take 10 when you can take 10 normally, and a natural 1 always fails.

In case of failure, you must make a DC 15+2*Spell Level Caster Level Check (and natural 1 always fails again) or get a scroll-style failure (From comic like Heart of Water causing a rain to more dangerous like a Fireball exploding prematurely/healing instead of harming or Solid Fog centered on the user), this should act according Murphy's law: if your party is immune to fire, the fireball should heal the enemies, or explode on a low HP ally. A save-or-die/lose should rebound on the lowest save in the party, and so on...

(Under my Banlist (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1115063) +30 Skill items are banaxed)

[Roderick_BR]

Fun. I like the idea of consequences. I think some people tried a dice rolling system for magic once, and someone complained about spells being "ineffective 26.345% of the cases".
It'll still use the spell slots? Failing the check shouldn't make you lose the memorized spell, just keep the caster from using it that round.
I like the possibility of rolling a 1 and getting the spell blow on your face. We could use do something similar to what happens when you fail to read a magic scroll above your level.

[AlphaBravo]

Fun. I like the idea of consequences. I think some people tried a dice rolling system for magic once, and someone complained about spells being "ineffective 26.345% of the cases".
It'll still use the spell slots? Failing the check shouldn't make you lose the memorized spell, just keep the caster from using it that round.
I like the possibility of rolling a 1 and getting the spell blow on your face. We could use do something similar to what happens when you fail to read a magic scroll above your level.

Failing the 1st check and succeeding the 2nd check causes the spell to not work (and won't remove from memory) and give you a penalty to the spellcasting checks based on the level (also the duration is) of the spell. Failing both removes the spell from memory and causes the spell to blow AND multiply the penalty and time by 1.5

{table=head]Level|Penalty|Time

0|
1|
1 round

1|
1d2|
1d3 rounds

2|
1d3|
1d4 rounds

3|
1d6|
1d8 rounds

4|
2d3|
2d4+1 rounds

5|
2d4|
3d4 rounds

6|
3d3|
2d6+1 rounds

7|
3d4|
3d6 rounds

8|
2d6+1|
2d10+1 rounds

9|
2d6+2|
3d8 rounds
[/table]

[Thorin]

I think the whole "meteor swarm explodes in your face, roll a save (even if you are a wizard and probably are going to fail). Its kind of... extreme

Another posibility

A friend of mine made a... lets say homebrew d&d-like game.
It had some problems of course, but It was really fun to play.

Magic was handled like psionics classes do, with a pool of points system
Magic had a little challenge. Basically all had "SR" (PC included) equal to their level. Any magic bonus that raised your armor also raised your SR (so a +2 full plate gave you a +2 to SR)

Any caster had to make a check (1d20+CL) to cast any spell
with 1 or less you lost all your pool points
with 2-9 you lost the spell cost in pool points and accomplish no effect
with 10-18 you cast the spell properly (losing the proper amount of pool points)
with 19+ you casted the spell in a spectacular way, letting you choose among an array of extra effects (extra damage, no save allowed, extra duration, etc. all according to the spell you cast. Example: you couldn´t choose "extra damage" on a buff spell).

Of course there where some ways to increase your check (magic items mostly); and also you could regain lost pool points (rare potions, resting, magic items that regained xd6 pool points each rounds, etc).

Also, even after the "Check", the enemies could still save from the spell.

It was a great system, and make all casters a real challenge to play (imagine the mighty lich druid lossing all their pool points because it rolled a natural 1 on its check, and having to spend an action to drink a potion instead of, say, guiding the PCs into a travel to the oblivion).


Conclusions: There are heavy consequences involving magic users in this method.
a) random possibility involving the caster
b) extra effect on a good roll
c) heavy repercussion in a "1", and ineffectiveness on a "2-9"

PS: Sorry if somethings seem poorly explained, but English is not my first language, so, you can figure


EDIT: I forgot to explain the adaptations :P

Spontaneous casters would have a bigger pool of points, while "preparing" casters would get more spells known (of course all the classes should "learn spells" now. You could spread the spell in categories (ex: battle, utility, etc) and let each class learn a number of each category at level X). This I don´t know exactly how to balance, but it haves the potential to balance magic in the world

[Coplantor]

You know, one of the settings Im developing is based upon the fact that magic can have horrible consequences . Backfires can alter reality, destroy everythin around the caster or even open gates to worlds where horrible things dwell. This spell failure able is just what I was needing for it