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Wreckingrocc
01-30-2009, 06:34 PM
So recently, I was noticing that assigning stats to a 4e character was the same every time. For me, it's simply a matter of assigning high numbers to primary and secondary stats. The tertiary stats hardly do anything, and the other stats are completely useless, save for skills, and, in some cases, defenses.

It was then that I came to the conclusion that there needs to be a nice, clean way to roll stats for 4e characters, while retaining balance between characters. What I came up with was based on a combination of things, but, primarily, the 29-27-25 3.5 rolling system.

1st Ability Score: 4d4v1+6
2nd Ability Score: 11d2v2
3rd Ability Score: 24-(1st Ability Score)
4th Ability Score: 27-(2nd Ability Score)
5th and 6th Ability Scores: Calculate your total points, using the table below. If the total is above 48, reroll your stats. If your total is at or below 48, subtract your first four scores’ total from 48. Then, spend all possible remaining points on your last two ability scores. Both scores begin at 6. You can distribute the points however you choose. If you still have remaining points left over, those points are lost.

Ability Score|Points
18|20
17|16
16|13
15|11
14|9
13|7
12|6
11|5
10|4
9|3
8|2
7|1
6|0

After calculating your six ability scores, you may assign them however you wish.

I'm looking for criticism, so please comment on your opinions of the system. If no points are left over, the characters will have the equivalent of a 26-point-buy array.

JackMage666
01-30-2009, 06:40 PM
..........

This is very, needlessly complicated. I would *HATE* having to decipher this to roll up a character.

Mando Knight
01-30-2009, 07:05 PM
This is, very much so, a complicated system. Nowhere near the stated "nice clean way." PHB Method 2 Point-Buy works well enough IMO... I often find myself lowering a stat or two that I want in order to boost a less-used stat to qualify for the feats I want...

Meek
01-30-2009, 07:25 PM
I don't see why this is necessary. To create stats for a 1st level character all I have to do is pick one of the (rather nice) arrays from the PHB and arrange it based on my class, then boost it based on my race. It takes less than a minute if I know what class and race I want to play. If I'm playing higher level, I have to boost them a bit more, but this is hardly needing of any change. Especially the proposed change, with all that rolling, subtracting and whatnot for individual ability scores.

Wreckingrocc
01-31-2009, 02:27 PM
See, but that's the problem... It's too mechanical, and not randomized enough. If you use rollers, it should still only take a minute or two to work out the stats, and your character is ready to go.

In addition, I feel like all 4e characters are too similar statwise... It's all about getting a really, really high primary stat, a fairly high secondary stat, and qualifying for feats. There's no point in actually increasing any other stats. With this system, as well, the characters are more diverse and realistic.

4e is all about minmaxing characters, though the entire point was to take out the need for minmaxing. The only thing they really did was made it easier to do and made it more important. With a "balanced" character rolled up in this system, it would get you thinking about how the stats could affect your character. It gets the players to think much moreso than with the point buy.

EDIT: The system isn't that complicated, either... It's overwhelming at first glance, but it's really simple after thirty seconds of inspection...

Alteran
01-31-2009, 03:27 PM
I don't see what the problem is with the current system, you seem to be going after random results just because they're random. I prefer a point-buy system because it means I don't have to worry about what stats I roll, and it means that all characters will be balanced with regards to ability scores. If I was really interested in random rolls, I would use the more standard "4d6 drop the lowest". I disagree with you on that last point, the system is complicated. At least, it's far more complicated than it needs to be.

Tequila Sunrise
01-31-2009, 03:37 PM
If you really don't like PB, try this:

1. Get a deck of cards. Take out two 4s, two 5s, two 6s, two 7s, two 8s and two 9s. Shuffle those twelve cards.

2. Deal out those twelve cards into six pairs. Total each pair, and arrange to taste.

TS

JackMage666
01-31-2009, 03:59 PM
If you really don't like PB, try this:

1. Get a deck of cards. Take out two 4s, two 5s, two 6s, two 7s, two 8s and two 9s. Shuffle those twelve cards.

2. Deal out those twelve cards into six pairs. Total each pair, and arrange to taste.

TS

I'm so using this next time I have a real life group. Just to do it.

And, yeah, I've been looking at it again, and I still don't get it. Perhaps an example?

Wreckingrocc
01-31-2009, 04:46 PM
Two things wrong with the other two examples for randomizing: The characters will not be balanced.

With rolling, if you go by the PHB's guidelines, you can have some characters with 10, 10, 12, 12, 12, 12 and some with 18, 18, 16, 8, 8, 8. Each of those fit the guidelines.

With the card system, if you check how many point buy points it would have taken for point buy, you can wind up anywhere from 20 (13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13) to 32 (18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8).

With this method, you always have 26.

As for an example, I can give a demonstration rolling procedure, and edit in what steps I take next after seeing my previous results.

For my first and second ability score, you roll dice (or use an online roller).
1) 4d4v1+6 (4d4, drop lowest, then add 6). EXAMPLE RESULTS: 4, 2, 2. TOTAL: 14
2) 11d2v2 (11d2, drop lowest two dice). EXAMPLE RESULTS: 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2. TOTAL: 16

Now that I have my stats, I can figure out my third and fourth scores.
3) 24-(First ability score). 24-(14)=10.
4) 27-(Second ability score). 27-(16)=11.

Now, I use the table above to calculate my points. 13 (16) + 9 (14) + 5 (11) + 4 (10). My total is 31.

Now, for my last two ability scores, each starts at 6. I have 17 (48-31) points to spend on them.

In this example, I will place one ability as a 17 (16 points) and the other as a 7 (1 point).

My final array is 17, 16, 14, 11, 10, 7.

Tequila Sunrise
01-31-2009, 05:21 PM
And, yeah, I've been looking at it again, and I still don't get it. Perhaps an example?
I don't know what exactly isn't clear to you, so this may not help, but here's trying:

Okay, I have my deck of cards. I take out the twelve cards that I mentioned above. I shuffle them up and then deal them out, getting these pairs:

1st Pair: 8 + 4 = 12
2nd Pair: 9 +7 = 16
3rd Pair: 5 + 6 =11
4th Pair: 5 + 8 = 13
5th Pair: 4 + 6 = 10
6th Pair: 7 + 9 = 16

Which makes my six scores 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 16. As T n' D said, it doesn't create PB-balanced stats but if you're not concerned with that level of extreme equality, it's a quick and effective compromise between PB and randomness.

TS

Meek
02-01-2009, 02:00 AM
...realistic

Ooooookaaaaay. You go ahead then. But I'm not sure randomized ability score generation is really going to add much realism to 4e given all the other things there that totally don't care about it one bit.

Baron Corm
02-01-2009, 12:52 PM
Two things wrong with the other two examples for randomizing: The characters will not be balanced.

With rolling, if you go by the PHB's guidelines, you can have some characters with 10, 10, 12, 12, 12, 12 and some with 18, 18, 16, 8, 8, 8. Each of those fit the guidelines.

With the card system, if you check how many point buy points it would have taken for point buy, you can wind up anywhere from 20 (13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13) to 32 (18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8).

With this method, you always have 26.

As for an example, I can give a demonstration rolling procedure, and edit in what steps I take next after seeing my previous results.

For my first and second ability score, you roll dice (or use an online roller).
1) 4d4v1+6 (4d4, drop lowest, then add 6). EXAMPLE RESULTS: 4, 2, 2. TOTAL: 14
2) 11d2v2 (11d2, drop lowest two dice). EXAMPLE RESULTS: 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2. TOTAL: 16

Now that I have my stats, I can figure out my third and fourth scores.
3) 24-(First ability score). 24-(14)=10.
4) 27-(Second ability score). 27-(16)=11.

Now, I use the table above to calculate my points. 13 (16) + 9 (14) + 5 (11) + 4 (10). My total is 31.

Now, for my last two ability scores, each starts at 6. I have 17 (48-31) points to spend on them.

In this example, I will place one ability as a 17 (16 points) and the other as a 7 (1 point).

My final array is 17, 16, 14, 11, 10, 7.

Is this not similar to what point buy would produce? I don't understand what you're going for. If you like the randomness, roll. If you don't, use point buy. The only two options are random and unbalanced, or nonrandom and balanced. What you created is the latter, except that you get to roll a bunch of dice for kicks. Unless you can produce a bunch of arrays which would be vastly different? And in this case, it's no longer balanced!