chick lit and young adult

[dehro]

what's the difference between chick lit, young adult and the other genres that 99% of the books listed either as young adult or chick lit are actually a part of?


take this list (http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/43.Best_Young_Adult_Books).. and put aside the fact that half the books have no truck in being put on the same list, some of them being timeless classics, others being moderately successful books and/or examples of the most recent fad.
a sizeable chunk of the books listed there are pure fantasy and/or vampire stories. (horror/fantasy)
even harry potter seems to be listed as young adult
I think it's either a children book or a fantasy book..or a children book of the fantasy genre.
and this goes on...

chick lit on the other hand seems to be comprised mostly of romance, comedy, more romance, some steamy passionate rolling in the hay, and a spoonful of introspection. (yeah..I'm not really knowledgeable on the genre, but going by the titles and descriptions, that seems to cover it)


so..why the need to establish 2 new "genres"??

[Serpentine]

I've never heard of "chick lit", and it sounds downright insulting.

"Young Adult" is neither new, nor a genre. It is a classification of books based on a combination of writing style and subject matter - i.e. books that are written for the (expected) reading abilities of young people, and deemed to have nothing inappropriate for people of that age but possibly inappropriate for children.

take this list (http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/43.Best_Young_Adult_Books).. and put aside the fact that half the books have no truck in being put on the same list, some of them being timeless classics, others being moderately successful books and/or examples of the most recent fad.None of this has anything to do with why a book could be classified as Young Adult. It merely explains why it's on that list - any objections you (or I) might have to books being on a list of "best young adult books" has everything to do with "best" and nothing to do with "young adult".
edit: Reviewing that list, there are a fair few books I'm suprised to see listed as Young Adult rather than Children's. But, well... it doesn't look like a very good list *shrug*
I think it's either a children book or a fantasy book..or a children book of the fantasy genre.You can think that if you like. But in my opinion, the opinion of my and many other libraries, and most of the literature business, you are mistaken. John Marsden, for example, clearly writes specifically for a teenage audience, but would be entirely inappropriate for children. Thus, he is firmly in the range of Young Adult.

[dehro]

john marsden, yes..but harry potter? inappropriate for children? my youngest family members would disagree. anyway that was just a randomly selected list.
I'm basing my observation on the, doubtlessly fallible if not plain wrong, genre division I found in the nanowrimo (http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums)Forum (check out the forum, genre lounges)
which somehow puts the two "genres" I'm puzzled by on the same level as other genres. and yes..chick lit was a new one for me too.

..if it has dragons and magic, it's fantasy. whether it's meant to be read by children, adults or teens is immaterial, it' still fantasy.
same goes for romance, comedy and so on... if "young adult" can be about all these themes and delve in all these genres, then young adult is a classification, if that's what you want to call it, that makes as little sense as putting all the books that have a blue cover in a separate tray.

it makes sense to separate explicitly children targeted books from the rest, irrespective of genre, because children don't go to bookstores on their own (usually) and someone who is looking for a present will have it easier that way..also, should a child browse books in the bookstore on his own, he's less likely to bump into extremely graphic covers, otherwise objectionable publications or explicity adult rated material if he can focus on shelves dedicated to him..

the same is not true for this "young adult" thing
should I enter a bookstore looking for a gift for a friend or family member, it should be the shop clerk's job to direct me either to the genre I am looking for, or, to ask what age group I'm looking for and then suggest a few titles within the genre.
most bookstores I've been at don't have a "young adult" shelve anyway (in fact, I can't remember one that has, but I haven't been in an english bookstore in more than a year)

it sounds like an excuse made up by some marketing eejit, to appease stuffy adult people who were ashamed of being caught reading books meant for children.
"come now, I can't be seen reading about vampires and teenagers in love during my lunch break..what would my colleagues think of me?"
"haven't you heard..those are called "young adult" now..it's cool"
"oh..well.. ok then"

edit: actually..it's worse than that.. vampires and such are now cool as a "young adult" theme..which gives adult people the freedom to read them without being sneered at much by the more "intellectual" amongst them, but still doesn't give the genre a literary status equal to..say.. Roots, 10 little indians, paradise lost, metamorphosis, or the Dubliners. because it's "only" young adult light reading..
what it does is in fact rising yet another barrier between full literary recognition of these genres (SF, Fantasy and so on).. by creating a sort of intermediate step that wasn't there.

[Serpentine]

As I said, it's no more a genre than M-rated films are a genre. It's a classification to make it easier to find age-appropriate material. You can have young adult fantasy, and young adult mystery, and young adult horror... And you can have fantasy that's written for children, fantasy that's written for young adults, and fantasy that's written for adults. Stop confusing the types of categories. They are not incompatible with one another.
It isn't any use to you? Well that's just bully. It is useful for others. And it has exactly zero to do with fear of being "sneered at", and everything to do with age appropriateness. It involves far more than "putting the books with blue covers on a tray", as you put it. It involves language, writing style, complexity, intended audience, subject matters, and so on. A young adult book may be read by children with advanced reading skills, or by adults who just like those sorts of books (some of my favourites are Young Adult fiction). But it was still written with a teenage reader in mind, appropriate for them in writing style and in subjects.

On Harry Potter specifically, my library actually has them scattered all over: the early ones are in Junior, most in Young Adult, and one or two in Adult Fiction. And that makes sense: Rowling wrote them with the intention that people would read them through their high school life, one book for each year - so at the start they'd be "Juniors", in the middle they'd be "Young Adults", and by the end they'd be considered "Adults" for the purpose of their reading abilities.

And as I alluded to earlier, every single library and book shop I've been into has had a Young Adult section. It is obviously very useful to a lot of people, regardless of your own preferences.

Finally, you seem to be incredibly disparaging towards books intended for young adults. That is a problem with you, not with the classification: there are a great number of truly excellent literary specimens in that age-group. Believe it or not, it's not all vampires and romance - and not everything that is vampires and/or romance is deserving of your scorn.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

They're genres defined not by their literary content, but by their intended audience. Children's Literature is another such genre. Or "genre", if one prefers.

Unsurprisingly, they contain many similar literary elements, on account of how people in the same demographics tend to have (broadly) similar tastes and be interested in similar themes and subject matters.

[Yora]

john marsden, yes..but harry potter? inappropriate for children?
Inappropriate for children is a very wide margin. We watched Star Trek with our parents when we were 6 or so. Not always pretty, but we did okay.
Avatar is a cartoon about assassins, war crimes, and genocide. Still I think they handle it in a way that I would let 6 years old watch it.

Same thing goes for books.

[dehro]

Finally, you seem to be incredibly disparaging towards books intended for young adults. That is a problem with you, not with the classification: there are a great number of truly excellent literary specimens in that age-group. Believe it or not, it's not all vampires and romance - and not everything that is vampires and/or romance is deserving of your scorn.

you have seriously misunderstood me...quite possibly that's my fault for not explaining myself fully.

my objection is not towards books intended for young adults, but towards the existence of this pointless (in my opinion) classification.
I have read and appreciated several books that fall under the category
..except for the vampire romance ones, which I just don't like. No scorn involved..but am I allowed a preference, yes?
well..ok, a little bit of scorn may occur when it comes to the twilight series..
actually..more like a faint sense of superiority
http://bibliomantics.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/hp-vs-twilight.jpg
(and I'm not a Potter fan although I've read the books)

back to my point...I live in a country where fantasy and science fiction, (and another couple of genres) are looked at as if they were second or third rate literature, not worthy of serious consideration, certainly not endorsed or promoted in literary circles and generally looked at with disdain, as some sort of divertissement for children...seen as light reading and nothing more. and this is true despite sales figures that keep saying something else entirely.
I resent that and would like it to change.

the way I see it, creating a "young adult" category just pushes "literary acknowledgement" for these genres further away than it already is...somewhat of a buffer zone, so to speak

teachers who have difficulty getting their pupils to read don't consider fantasy and SF as viable learning tools.
I'm not saying they should forsake the classics..I love the classics.. but where I live there are entire generations who just don't get involved in reading at all, which I see as a serious issue. Maybe giving fantasy and SF a chance would somewhat buck the trend.
There are countries where children have their say in what to read, who is a good writer and who deserves to be recognized as such. countries where reading is promoted and encouraged on many levels. there are awards dedicated to children/teens literature and those awards are given to people voted by the children themselves.
people who get those awards have access to the same level of attention by the media that more adult oriented (or if you prefer, intellectual) mainstream literature gets.
this is not the case in Italy, where the only literary awards worth mentioning are usually handed out by a "jury" of some description, and practically never go anywhere near anything remotely reeking of fantasy or science fiction. an italian fantasy writer who wants to get some public recognition beyond mere sales figures, must write in english and send his books to the States to be lost in anonimity.
if "young adults" category should become a reality in Italy as well, all it would do is to create yet another "ghetto" to relegate authors in (those who happen to write for young adults) and keep them away from the real marketing, promotion, commercial success and recognition by their peers.

this breeds a situation where a potentially good writer will shy away from writing fantasy and SF because there's no money but, more importantly, no glory in it...
should he be persistent and write fantasy nevertheless..he'd end up not being given all the chances he could get, landing on the desk of a minor editor with limited resources and public appeal.
on the other hand, there are several american and english authors who ARE translated and who sell really well on the market, because the big publishing houses simply pick a book that has had a good success elsewhere, playing it safe. they don't have to invest on italian talent in the fantasy and scifi arena, because there are scores of already estabilished authors who they can just flip over on the italian market.
they can do this because fantasy and scifi are not considered for their literary value in italy..so all they are to them are cash cows...whereas more "traditional fiction would be promoted and sustained by various cultural institutions and initiatives.
this tells me there is a market for these genres but not the literary recognition that pushes local authors forward..nor the willingness of the publishers to invest in local authors.
in this picture, I'm convinced that creating yet another artificial container does nothing to encourage promotion and "coming of age" of SF and fantasy and it's recognition as a peer to.. fiction other than those two genres.

[Yora]

My presonal experience from my Family is, that we pretty much went from childrens books straight to adult novels, skipping the teen part completely. Not that I actually read more than three, but if you can have a real novel, they seemed rather pointless to me.
But maybe that just the german ones you coud get in the early 90s.

[Tengu_temp]

I live in a country where fantasy and science fiction, (and another couple of genres) are looked at as if they were second or third rate literature, not worthy of serious consideration, certainly not endorsed or promoted in literary circles and generally looked at with disdain, as some sort of divertissement for children...seen as light reading and nothing more.

I'm pretty sure that's all of the countries. Mainstream literature looks down on sci-fi, sci-fi looks down on fantasy. The situation everywhere is the same.

[Ormur]

I work in a library and we have separate sections for children, young adult and fantasy/sci-fi. There is another for paperback thrillers/crime fiction and also one for pocketbook romances (the stuff they sell four in a package in supermarkets).

We don't have a special section for chick lit but I have a rough idea of what it's supposed to be, light-hearted books with brightly coloured covers about women in their 20's in 30's struggling with love and profession. Titles I think of are Sex and the City, Bridget Jones's Diary, the Shopaholic series, books that were adopted as Hollywood romance films. It's a pretty narrow genre but I haven't read anything in it so I won't make any judgements.

Our young adult section isn't very big but much to varied tot be an actual genre. There are romances, coming-of-age stories, fantasy, sci-fi, thrillers and even novels considered literary canon.

The genre-fiction versus literary fiction is a common complaint and here in a country that prides itself of reading and writing novels sci-fi and fantasy hardly exist as genres. One reason may be that the titles aren't translated (except for young adults and children), publishers claim that the target market just buys them in English anyway. Crime fiction is a pretty recent introduction but now very popular and even accepted.

Keep in mind though that despite some narrow mindedness a lot of so-called literary fiction includes sci-fi and fantasy themes (Handmaids Tale, 1984, The Road, Slaughterhouse Five) and that there are sci-fi novels that have received some recognition. Some people have defended the distinction as one between plot and character but I think it's really just marketing and author reputation.

[Aotrs Commander]

When I last ventured into Waterstones about this time last year (mostly I use Amazon save for the odd occasion at Christmas), I was mildly horrified to find the fantasy/sci-fi section had shrunk (and again been condensed into one category - apparently Lord of the Rings is science fiction *eyeglow roll*) and there was a whole section labelled "Dark Romance", which basically looked like it was entirely composed vampire romances; a category that has apparently expanded with such speed that it was deigned important enough for special designation - at the apparent expense of all other forms of sci-fi and fantasy...

I fear for the world, some days...

"Dark Romance" seems to be a category that we could be doing without, if were talking about unecessary classifications...!



Now, if it was a an entire section on Liches, I could totally understand, because that would be awesome.

(But, y'know, not romance obviously, because that's just creepy and doesn't happen, despite what that lying feat in the Book of Vile Darkness said1!)


1One of my goals in unlife is to find the person who thought up That Feat and that alliteration was worth disparaging the highest form of Undead and re-educate them messily with the heavy end of my rocket launcher, with extreme prejudice.

[H Birchgrove]

I'm pretty sure that's all of the countries. Mainstream literature looks down on sci-fi, sci-fi looks down on fantasy. The situation everywhere is the same.

Epic Fantasy* looks down on Sword and Sorcery, who... just want to get laid. :smalltongue:

Also, never ever call literature Science Fiction "sci-fi" among "serious" fans. At best, they think it should be used only for TV- and movie "sci-fi" that is "purely" entertaining, like Star Wars and Dr Who. At worst, it's the sound of crickets [censored].

* J.R.R. Tolkien and to some degree C.S. Lewis seem to be highly regarded among mainstream literature fans.

[Feytalist]

It's called "SF", thankyooverrymuch. :smallbiggrin:

I understand why there is a young adult subsection, but I've always been a bit hazy on who it's actually for. It might be the name, cause over here "young adult" is a classification usually referring to people just starting out work, i.e. people around my age (early twenties, is where I'm at). It seems like it should be marketed for early teens, but in my experience teenagers generally want the more mature stuff. I certainly remember reading Dean Koontz and the like by the time I was 13.

A clearer classification system would help, but in literature such a thing doesn't really exist, it seems.

[dehro]

Epic Fantasy* looks down on Sword and Sorcery, who... just want to get laid. :smalltongue:

Also, never ever call literature Science Fiction "sci-fi" among "serious" fans. At best, they think it should be used only for TV- and movie "sci-fi" that is "purely" entertaining, like Star Wars and Dr Who. At worst, it's the sound of crickets [censored].

* J.R.R. Tolkien and to some degree C.S. Lewis seem to be highly regarded among mainstream literature fans.

I was unaware of the distinction...

[Feytalist]

It's simply a bit of snobbish pedantry. One that I fully ascribe to, heh.

Literary science fiction should be shortened to SF. "Sci-fi" amongst the elite refers derogatorily to low-quality, populist works. It's like that abomination "Sy-Fy". Hell, I don't even want to type that mean little word.

[llamamushroom]

Considering the situation you describe, dehro, I can understand your opinion of YA and Chick Lit. On the other hand, I think that the former is an absolutely crucial classification, while the latter is a genre that I don't personally ascribe to. Why do I think YA is important? Because not every kid can go straight from fairy tales to Lord of the Rings. The thing is, age classifications in literature have much less gradation than those for other media.

If a book is classed under "children" then it is ok for anyone under the age of 10 (for example, I forget the actual guidelines). That encompasses a huge array of reading abilities, it's true, but the important thing is that we as a society have decided that kids of this age aren't ready for certain things (like sex or graphic violence, to name the two most obvious). Adult literature, by comparison, can have all the sex, drugs, violence and rock'n'roll it wants. There has to be a middle ground on that score.

There also has to be a middle ground for reading ability. The reading ability of the average 12-year-old is probably too high for the children's section, but too low for the adult one (and see above for the appropriateness of themes thing). I say "average", because odds are the people on this forum (and specifically those responding to this thread) are not average readers - I get the feeling that when most people here were in school, they read at above their age level. Case in point: my brother read LotR at the age of 9, but one of his best friends (who was a massive fantasy nut) couldn't manage the same until he was 15. Reading level differs between individuals, but what the YA classification does is let us say "you should enjoy these books" to the majority.

As a final note, I think that Paranormal Romance isn't all bad. I mentioned it elsewhere, but such novels are great gateways into reading as a pastime, which I think can only be a good thing. Also, they sell, which gets money to bookshops, who in turn can stay open and get me my Terry Pratchett fix. :smallbiggrin:

[Aotrs Commander]

As a final note, I think that Paranormal Romance isn't all bad. I mentioned it elsewhere, but such novels are great gateways into reading as a pastime, which I think can only be a good thing. Also, they sell, which gets money to bookshops, who in turn can stay open and get me my Terry Pratchett fix. :smallbiggrin:

Now you see, classification as "paranormal romance" probably wouldn't have bugged me (as much) - "dark romance" seems to me to have some rather unpleasant or at the very least, creepy, connotations.



[Getting side-tracked]I will never understand why vampires get romantised so much. A vampire is basically a leech in a dinner suit (though often, lamprey would be a better moniker, since leeches tend to leave their victims alive). It can't just be the immortality thing; there are a plethora of immortal, unchanging creatures that don't require predation on other living beings... [/Getting side-tracked]

[Radar]

I'm pretty sure that's all of the countries. Mainstream literature looks down on sci-fi, sci-fi looks down on fantasy. The situation everywhere is the same.
And yet, for example in Poland local fantasy and SF authors can attain recognition and approprietly high book sales. As I go through the fantasy/SF section of a big bookstore network, I find quite a lot of local authors exposed on the shelves. Literary critics can have their disdain for those types of literature, but I have yet to find a person, who cares.

I can see, where this apprehension of young-adult category comes from, but it's not a problem with the category itself, but with the same people, who look down upon fantasy and SF anyway. Still, romance and horror have it worse, since it's such a popular genre among pulp literature authors.

[Serpentine]

My presonal experience from my Family is, that we pretty much went from childrens books straight to adult novels, skipping the teen part completely. Not that I actually read more than three, but if you can have a real novel, they seemed rather pointless to me.
But maybe that just the german ones you coud get in the early 90s.That's a real shame, because there's some really great stuff in that category. And saying young adult books aren't "real novels"? Really? :smallconfused:

[dehro]

And yet, for example in Poland local fantasy and SF authors can attain recognition and approprietly high book sales. As I go through the fantasy/SF section of a big bookstore network, I find quite a lot of local authors exposed on the shelves. Literary critics can have their disdain for those types of literature, but I have yet to find a person, who cares.

I can see, where this apprehension of young-adult category comes from, but it's not a problem with the category itself, but with the same people, who look down upon fantasy and SF anyway. Still, romance and horror have it worse, since it's such a popular genre among pulp literature authors.

don't get me wrong..there are 1-2 names in italy, of "local" fantasy authors who do sell a lot..mostly thanks to the hype generated by harry potter, eragon and such..but you won't ever see them on TV (the way terry pratchett gets interviewed when he has a new book out, for instance).. nor will they have a chance at being translated and sell abroad..
and there's literally 2 of them who can be found in almost every non specialised bookstore...and only 1 of those has any sort of real visibility

the other beef I have with all of this, is that this is not an "educational" approach. I have yet to find a single child who doesn't happen to be the child of a librarian, who knows about any award for children literature. the Carnegie award in England, the Gouden Griffel in Holland..etc etc..all these awards involve children in their assignation and give the writers some bragging rights when they sit at a table with mainstream fiction writers.. their assignation is pretty much a national event and is reported in the media..
in Italy, those who write for children don't get to sit at the same table with the others..and that too works against the spreading of a reading culture...and indirectly against the recognition of "lesser genres" as equally worthy. in fact, I don't know of the existence of a nationally recognized award for children literature.. which is rather depressing for a nation that once prided itself on it's literary output... (still does in fact..but I expect that to change once the TV/anime/videogames generation discard novels altogether)

[truemane]

The thing to remember is that the whole idea of genre is both arbitrary and self-fulfilling. Someone decides there needs to be a shelf for a particular kind of literature. Easy enough. Once there's a shelf, you need to decide what goes on the shelf. That part is arbitrary. And then, once the shelf exists, people will start writing books with the intention of landing on it. That's the self-fulfilling part. Academics argue about this stuff endlessly.

Like Feminist Literature, or African-American Literature. Or (my favourite Canadian Literature). These books are somehow neither romances nor historical nor thrillers. And what, precisely, constitutes Feminist Lit? Female main character? Strong female main character? How strong? In what ways? What if a man wrote it? Canadian Lit is even worse. How Canadian does it have to be? Author? Setting? Characters? Two out of the three? What if an American writer writes a by-the-numbers political thriller starring American characters that happens to take place in a large city in Canada? Still 'Can Lit'?

I mean, even the easy ones aren't as easy as you think they are. Start a thread on any board anywhere on the Net and ask what defines Science Fiction and what defines Fantasy and see what you get.

The whole thing only makes sense if you don't think about it too hard or deeply. Once you start picking at it, you realize it's all nonsense.

The best way to think genre is that it's a marketing tool. If you're a bookstore, you fill the 'Teen Lit' shelf with the books you think (hope) 13 - 19 year olds will buy. You put books on the Chick Lit shelf that you hope will attract the 35 - 50 year old women who buy something like 80% of the books in North America.

Giving it any more though than that it a waste of time. Like trying to decide at what precise point stubble becomes a beard.

[H Birchgrove]

It's simply a bit of snobbish pedantry. One that I fully ascribe to, heh.

Literary science fiction should be shortened to SF. "Sci-fi" amongst the elite refers derogatorily to low-quality, populist works. It's like that abomination "Sy-Fy". Hell, I don't even want to type that mean little word.

The practical thing about SF is that it can mean both Science Fiction and Speculative Fiction, the latter can mean fantasy, SF, magic realism, Alternative History, horror, ghost stories etc. Considering that most libraries that I'm aware of mixes SF and fantasy either way, they should love the term Speculative Fiction.

[Tengu_temp]

And yet, for example in Poland local fantasy and SF authors can attain recognition and approprietly high book sales. As I go through the fantasy/SF section of a big bookstore network, I find quite a lot of local authors exposed on the shelves. Literary critics can have their disdain for those types of literature, but I have yet to find a person, who cares.

And that's pretty much the same everywhere. Critics won't like fantasy/sci-fi, literary snobs won't like it, but most people don't care due to not reading such books, not reading any books, or being more open-minded with their literary preferences.

Though it's worth noting that the "mainstream looks down on sc-fi, sci-fi looks down on fantasy" thing was also mentioned by Andrzej Sapkowski, who is pretty much the most well-known and recognized Polish fantasy author.

[Rhydeble]

I mean, even the easy ones aren't as easy as you think they are. Start a thread on any board anywhere on the Net and ask what defines Science Fiction and what defines Fantasy and see what you get.

That's rather easy
Fantasy has magic, science fiction has psychic powers

anyway, there's seriously a Canadian literature category? not just something like national literature or something? (dutch books are usually in dutch and about holland so we call the rest of the bookshop "translated stuff". some bookshops are even divided in a national and international (english) part. translated books are also usually set apart (not always)

[Mewtarthio]

That's rather easy
Fantasy has magic, science fiction has psychic powers

Psychic powers makes it fantasy, strictly speaking, although I'd still consider it in the spirit of science fiction if the effects those psychic powers have on society are explored in depth.

[Getting side-tracked]I will never understand why vampires get romantised so much. A vampire is basically a leech in a dinner suit (though often, lamprey would be a better moniker, since leeches tend to leave their victims alive). It can't just be the immortality thing; there are a plethora of immortal, unchanging creatures that don't require predation on other living beings... [/Getting side-tracked]

Perhaps it's the predation that makes them sexy. You know, every male vampire is a Bad Boy and every female vampire is a Femme Fatale. It's like how people think Wolverine is cool even though you'd probably think he's a total jerk if you met him in real life.

[Serpentine]

in fact, I don't know of the existence of a nationally recognized award for children literature.. which is rather depressing for a nation that once prided itself on it's literary output...Prizes for children's literature:
Newbery Medal and Newbery Honor (USA) – since 1922
Carnegie Medal (UK) – since 1936
Caldecott Medal and Caldecott Honor (USA) for illustration – since 1938
Governor General's Award for English language children's literature (Canada) – since 1949
Jane Addams Children's Book Award (USA) – since 1953
Laura Ingalls Wilder Medal (USA) – since 1954
Hans Christian Andersen Award (International) – since 1956
Kate Greenaway Medal for illustration (UK) – since 1956
Dorothy Canfield Fisher Children's Book Award (USA) – since 1957
Guardian Award (UK) – since 1967
Coretta Scott King Award for African-American Literature (USA) – since 1970
Tir na n-Og Awards (Wales, UK) – since 1976
Nestlé Smarties Book Prize (UK) – 1985-2007
Prix Sorcières (France) – since 1986
Governor General's Award for French language children's literature (Canada) – since 1987
Bisto Book of the Year Awards (Ireland) – since 1990
Anne V. Zarrow Award for Young Readers' Literature (USA) – since 1991
The Eilis Dillon Award (Ireland) – since 1995
Angus Book Award (UK) – since 1996
Pura Belpré Award for Latino literature (USA) – since 1996
Marsh Award for Children’s Literature in Translation (UK) – since 1996
Children's Laureate (UK) – since 1999
Michael L. Printz Award for young adult literature (USA) – since 2000
Sibert Medal for informational books (USA) – since 2001
Super Dash Novel Rookie of the Year Award (Japan) - since 2001
Astrid Lindgren Memorial Award (international) – since 2003

Prizes for Horror literature:
Bram Stoker Award for superior achievement in horror writing - since 1987

Prizes for Science Fiction and/or Fantasy literature:
Hugo Award – since 1955
Nebula Award – since 1965
Ditmar Award (Australia) - since 1969
BSFA award – since 1970
Seiun Award - since 1970
Locus Award – since 1971
Mythopoeic Awards – Awards for the best of mythic fantasy, following in the tradition of J. R. R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis – since 1971
Prix Tour-Apollo Award – since 1972
John W. Campbell Memorial Award for Best Science Fiction Novel – since 1973
John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer in Science Fiction – since 1973
World Fantasy Award – since 1975
Paul Harland Prize (Netherlands) - since 1976
Prometheus Award – best Libertarian SF – since 1979
Nihon SF Taisho Award - since 1980
Prix Aurora Award (Canada) - since 1980
Prix Rosny-Aîné (France) - since 1980
Kurd-Laßwitz-Preis (Germany) - since 1981
Philip K. **** Award – since 1982
Compton Crook Award – best first time novel in genre in a year – since 1983
Janusz A. Zajdel Award – (Poland) – since 1984
Writers of the Future – contest for new authors – since 1985
Tähtivaeltaja Award (Finland) - since 1986
Arthur C. Clarke Award – since 1987
Japan Fantasy Novel Award - since 1989
Sir Julius Vogel Award (New Zealand) - since 1989
Urania Award (Italy) - since 1989
SFRA Pioneer Award – best critical essay length work – since 1990
Tiptree award – since 1991
Chandler Award (Australia) - since 1992
Sidewise Award for Alternate History – since 1995
Aurealis Award (Australia) - since 1995
Thomas D. Clareson Award for Distinguished Service – promotion of SF teaching and study, etc. – since 1996
Endeavour Award (Pacific Northwest) - since 1999
Nautilus Award (Poland) - since 2003
WSFA Small Press Award – since 2007
Tähtifantasia Award (Finland) - since 2007

The above, in Australia alone:
Bilby Awards (CBCA)
Canberra’s Own Outstanding List (COOL) Awards
Children's Book Council of Australia Awards
Crichton Award for Children's Book Illustration (CBCA)
Dame Annabelle Rankin Award (CBCA)
Leila St John Award (CBCA)
Multi-Cultural Children's Literature Award
Nan Chauncy Award (CBCA)
Aurealis Award
Australian Shadows Award
Chandler Award
Ditmar Award

John Marsden's accomplishments, alone:
Marsden has won every major writing award in Australia for young people’s fiction[17] including what Marsden describes as one of the highlights of his career,[13] the 2006 Lloyd O'Neil Award for contributions to Australian publishing.[18] This award means that Marsden is one of only five authors to be honoured for lifelong services to the Australian book industry.[19] John Marsden was also nominated for the Astrid Lindgren Memorial Award in 2008, the world's largest children's and youth literature award, and the second largest literature prize in the world.[19]

Internationally, he has twice been named among Best Books of the Year by the American Library Association and once by Publishers’ Weekly (USA), has been runner-up for Dutch Children’s Book of the Year and short-listed for the German Young Readers’ Award, won the Grand Jury Prize as Austria’s Most Popular Writer for Teenagers, and won the coveted Buxtehuder Bulle in Germany.[5][17] However, despite his number of awards, Marsden has said that he generally does not care about awards (with the exception of the Lloyd O'Neil Award and The Melbourne Prize for Literature).[18]

In 1996, Marsden's books took the top six places on the Teenage Fiction best-seller lists for Australia.[1] Also in 1996, he was named 'Australia's most popular author today in any literary field' by The Australian newspaper.[1] In 1997 Australian readers voted three of his books into Australia's 100 most-loved books of all time.[1]



There's plenty of recognition of science fiction, fantasy, horror, children's and young adult literature. The idea that "sci-fi and fantasy is looked down upon in literary circles" is exaggerated, and at best terribly out of date.

[Asta Kask]

My presonal experience from my Family is, that we pretty much went from childrens books straight to adult novels, skipping the teen part completely. Not that I actually read more than three, but if you can have a real novel, they seemed rather pointless to me.
But maybe that just the german ones you coud get in the early 90s.

You've never read Terry Pratchett? The Belgariad? The Malloreon? The Riftwar saga? Lord of the Rings? Anything by Asimov or Heinlein? You've missed so much...

[dehro]

long list

There's plenty of recognition of science fiction, fantasy, horror, children's and young adult literature. The idea that "sci-fi and fantasy is looked down upon in literary circles" is exaggerated, and at best terribly out of date.

not in Italy, and not for children literature..which kind of was my point, as I was talking about the situation in Italy.
of course do I know about hugo, nebula and countless other awards, international, american and in general dedicated to the english speaking word.

the only one in your list is the Urania award..which was always a marketing gimmick for editor Mondadori (the editor of Urania Magazine) to put their hands on the few good italian SF authors who stand out.
it doesn't include a fantasy section, and there is no children award worth speaking of at all, in Italy. (yes, I'm sure wikipedia will tell us all that there are in fact a few awards in Italy for children literature.. but the simple truth is that 90% of the children of today, and their parents, don't know about these awards, and the awards themselves don't enjoy national public recognition.)

[Serpentine]

Then that's a problem with Italy, not with the world nor with the young adult classification *shrug*
Looking up Italian literature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Italian_literary_awards) awards, sadly I can't tell what sort of books most of the awarded works are, but Premio Omelas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premio_Omelas) is an award for sci-fi, as is the Urania Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urania_Award).

edit: I should say, if fantasy, sci-fi, children's and young adult literature really is so neglected in Italy, then that is truly unfortunate. I'm glad that they're all so well respected and popular in Australia.

[dehro]

Then that's a problem with Italy, not with the world nor with the young adult classification *shrug*
Looking up Italian literature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Italian_literary_awards) awards, sadly I can't tell what sort of books most of the awarded works are, but Premio Omelas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premio_Omelas) is an award for sci-fi, as is the Urania Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urania_Award).

I'm sorry if this comes over a bit harsh, but... are you just trying to misunderstand me on purpose, or am I really not making myself clear?

my entire argument against the young adult classification is (aside for the fact that I consider it pointless, which is a personal view and nothing more), the fact that I believe it will..should it take a hold in Italy, push back the acceptance of children literature, fantasy and SF in the "higher ranks" of literature... in Italy...which is a rather well known issue many writers, readers and critics debate..again..in Italy.
and now you tell me it's a problem with Italy...
well...duh.

[Serpentine]

Yes, that is a problem with Italy, and that's unfortunate. If the Young Adult classification would make the situation worse - which I find highly unlikely - then Italy's literature world must be in a pretty dire state.
That doesn't mean the classification Young Adult is pointless, useless nor meaningless, and it means your problem is with Italy, not with Young Adult literature.

[dehro]

I'll try again..
I've already stated that I have no issue whatsoever with the books that fall in the category..I read and enjoy most of them even though I probably am not a "young" adult anymore...at least according to my birth certificate.
my objection is towards the categorisation itself, that's all.
I understand the need, within the realm of fruit, for a category that puts together all "true berries" even though it puts chili pepper together with blueberries. I'm sure there are scientific reasons for biologists to have made that distinction.
I don't understand, or maybe just don't agree with, the need for young adult as a sub-category of literature...which cuts across several other pre-existing categories.
you know what?...let's just agree we disagree, shall we? repeating myself is rather tiring and pointless.

[Knaight]

I'll try again..
I've already stated that I have no issue whatsoever with the books that fall in the category..I read and enjoy most of them even though I probably am not a "young" adult anymore...at least according to my birth certificate.
my objection is towards the categorisation itself, that's all.
...
I don't understand, or maybe just don't agree with, the need for young adult as a sub-category of literature...which cuts across several other pre-existing categories.

If an international categorization has issues in a particular place, it is probably due to the place and not the categorization.

[Serpentine]

I'll try again..
I've already stated that I have no issue whatsoever with the books that fall in the category..I read and enjoy most of them even though I probably am not a "young" adult anymore...at least according to my birth certificate.
my objection is towards the categorisation itself, that's all.Except it isn't. You said yourself: your problem with it is that you're afraid it'll make Italian literature snobbery even worse.
Young Adult is a classification of books that cover all works written with a teenage audience in mind, and therefore of appropriate reading level, writing style, subject types and similar things for people of that age. That's it. The lines between young adult and junior, and young adult and adult are very blurry, but for the most part it is very easy to tell when a book is of the Young Adult category. It is useful for many people looking for books appropriate for teenagers, and at least in Australia incorporates many respected authors.
It is not responsible for the situation in Italy, and that is an entirely separate issue.

[Scarlet Knight]

Perhaps it's the predation that makes them sexy. You know, every male vampire is a Bad Boy and every female vampire is a Femme Fatale.

There's been a ton of writing on the sexual tones of vampires.
I can't remember who said that when Dracula comes to a village, the men grab torches, while the women put on their prettiest nighties....:smallwink:

You know guys, if anyone can write in Italian, I smell a money making niche market!

[H Birchgrove]

OT: Serpentine! Love your new avatar! :smallbiggrin:

[BiblioRook]

Now you see, classification as "paranormal romance" probably wouldn't have bugged me (as much) - "dark romance" seems to me to have some rather unpleasant or at the very least, creepy, connotations.

Heh, my favorite bookstore here is a moderately successful independent store that caters exclusively towards Sci-fi/Fantasy and Mysteries. They have a whole section for 'paranormal romance' too.
It seems largely somewhat mocked by the regulars though; except when someone actually goes to buy something from it which in that case more power ti them!
Some of those books don't get any less creepy though, I've seen 'romances' centered around zombies before. Not zombie-to-zombie, I mean human-to-zombie romance. Squick.
That being said, if it wasn't for the fact that liches seem pretty centered exclusively in traditional fantasy (and paranormal romance being mostly Urban Fantasy), I wouldn't really be surprised to see a romance novel focused on liches once in a while... as disturbing as that would be.

As for 'Chick Lit', I have to admit it as a sometimes guilty pleasure of mine (I like things light and quirky :smallredface:). Though I'm not sure why it's existence is so surprising, 'Chick Flicks' is a largely used term as far as movies go, why wouldn't books have an equivalent?
I see alot of mysteries falling into this, though being mysteries they are usually categorized as such which has spawned yet another sub-genre of 'Cozy Mysteries'. Again, not always bad, I've read more then a few myself, but yes much like 'Young Adult' (if not moreso) it's just clearly targeted at a rather specific demographic.
I know both my favorite used-bookstores (not the one I already mentioned though) have specific 'Chick Lit' sections, but in both they are notably very small.