Runner Base Class [3.5]

[EdroGrimshell]

Runner

A runner is a combination of urban acrobat and street fighter, using dirty tricks, agility, and their natural cunning to get by in city streets, alleyways, and rooftops while looking for the rush of their lives. Few can match the acrobatic skill of the runner, and even fewer can incorporate that skill into their fighting styles.

Adventures: Runners rarely adventure, prefering to stay in cities where they can put their talents to the best use, however, those that do adventure seek to push their abilities and find new uses for their talents. Runners prefer adventuring in forests or the underdark, where they natural structures can act much like those the runner is used to finding in cities.

Characteristics: The primary traits present in almost every runner are their agility and their speed. Runners are daredevils, acrobats, and street fighters that use the rush from adrenaline and their acrobatic agility to get the drop on their opponents, sometimes literally. Their daredevil nature makes them thrill seekers that thrive on the adrenaline rush they often use when fighting.

Alignment: Most runners are neutral, that lean towards chaotic alignments. Good and evil are equally common but dwarfed by the number of neutral runners in existance.

Religion: Fharlanghn, unsurprisingly, is the primary favored by runners, followed almost immediately by Kord and Olidammara. Even those that aren't particularly pious pay some form of respect to all three to some degree.

Background: Runners are simply the result of developing natural athleticism and mixing it with gratuitous amounts of courage. MAny were just street kids that had fun jumping around, running, and climbing and just had the technique refined as they grew older, either by choice, necessity, or by direction of a thieves' guild that picked up on their talent.

Races: Humans, like with most classes, are the most likely to become runners. The natural athleticism of the halfling lends well to the life of a runner and their courage even more so. Elves are also a natural choice, their grace and agility, plus their lives lived in the trees making it a natural choice for many elves, especially wild elves. Goblins also take to the path on occasion, their speed for their size making them quite dangerous foes.

Other Classes: Runners are used to fighting, but are also accustomed to stealth, making runners work well with both fighters and rogues. However, the general lack of wilderness knowledge causes them to sometimes come at odds with rangers, barbarians, and scouts, though they can get along well with any of them if they do possess wilderness knowledge of any kind. Spellcasters, esspecially arcane casters, view them as an interesting bodyguard or ally. Their mobility generally allowing them to avoid many of the caster's more destructive spells.

Role: A runner is, above all else, a master of mobility, they can get almost anywhere in very little time, able to act as scouts, fighters, and thieves. They have the ability to fill multiple roles, but they are not dedicated to most of them, prefering to mix and match them as needed.

Hit Die: d8
Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Class Features|Speed Bonus
1st|+0|+2|+2|+0|Fast Movement, Sudden Strike +1d6|+10ft
2nd|+1|+3|+3|+0|Adrenaline, Evasion|+10ft
3rd|+2|+3|+3|+1|Parkour, Uncanny Dodge|+10ft
4th|+3|+4|+4|+1|Acrobatic Strike, Bonus Feat|+10ft
5th|+3|+4|+4|+1|Sudden Strike +2d6, Fleet of Foot|+20ft
6th|+4|+5|+5|+2|Great Leap, Airborne Assault|+20ft
7th|+5|+5|+5|+2|Freefall Expertise|+20ft
8th|+6|+6|+6|+2|Bonus Feat, Waterwalk|+20ft
9th|+6|+6|+6|+3|Improved Uncanny Dodge, Lasting Adrenaline|+30ft
10th|+7|+7|+7|+3|Sudden Strike +3d6|+30ft
11th|+8|+7|+7|+3|Improved Evasion, Lunging Assault|+30ft
12th|+9|+8|+8|+4|Bonus Feat, Improved Running|+30ft
13th|+9|+8|+8|+4|Improved Parkour|+40ft
14th|+10|+9|+9|+4|Freefall Expertise (any distance)|+40ft
15th|+11|+9|+9|+5|Sudden Strike +4d6|+40ft
16th|+12|+10|+10|+5|Bonus Feat, Greater Running|+40ft
17th|+12|+10|+10|+5|Free Movement|+50ft
18th|+13|+11|+11|+6|Enduring Adrenaline|+50ft
19th|+14|+11|+11|+6|Defy Gravity|+50ft
20th|+15|+12|+12|+6|Bonus Feat, Sudden Strike +5d6, Eternal Adrenaline|+50ft
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Craft, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Move Silently, Listen, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope. (8 + Int Mod, x4 at first level)

Wpn/Arm Prof: A runner is proficient with all simple weapons and with light armor but not with shields.

Fast Movement (Ex): Starting at first level, a runner gains an increase to his base land speed as indicated on the table above. This is an actual increase to his base land speed, not a bonus. Additionally, the runner gains Run and Endurance as bonus feats even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites and can turn while running.

Sudden Strike (Ex): If a runner can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from his attack, he can strike a vital spot for extra damage. Whenever a runner’s target is denied a Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), the runner deals an extra 1d6 points of damage with her attack. This extra damage increases by 1d6 points at 5th level and every five levels thereafter. A runner can’t use sudden strike when flanking an opponent unless that opponent is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC.

This damage also applies to ranged attacks against targets up to 30 feet away. Creatures with concealment, creatures without discernible anatomies, and creatures immune to extra damage from critical hits are all immune to sudden strikes. A runner can’t make a sudden strike while striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are out of reach.

A runner can’t use sudden strike to deliver nonlethal damage. Weapons capable of dealing only nonlethal damage don’t deal extra damage when used as part of a sudden strike.

The extra damage from the sudden strike ability stacks with the extra damage from sneak attack whenever both would apply to the same target.

Adrenaline Rush (Ex): At 2nd level, a runner gains the ability to tap a reserve of adrenaline to temporarily augment his natural abilities to almost supernatural levels. The runner gains a pool of points he may expend to use the following effects equal to his class level + his Con bonus (if any). One point can be spent at the beginning of the runner's turn to activate one or more of the following benefits as a free action.
Vigor: The runner gains a +2 bonus to his Str and Dex score for one round. This bonus increases by 2 at 6th level and every four levels thereafter to a maximum of +10 at 18th level.
Revitalize: The runner gains fast healing 1 for one minute. The fast healing increases by 1 at 6th level and every four levels thereafter to a maximum of fast healing 5 at 18th level.
Celerity: The runner can make an extra attack as a part of any one attack or full-attack this round. The number of additional attacks increases to two at 10th level, and to three at 18th level.
Power: The runner gains a +2 bonus on damage rolls for one round. This bonus increases by 2 at 6th level and every four levels therafter to a maximum of +10 at 18th level.
Agility: The runner gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves for one round. This bonus increases by 1 at 6th level and every four levels thereafter to a maximum of +5 at 18th level.
The runner may activate multiple benefits but each one requires its own expenditure of points and can drain the adrenaline reserve very quickly. A runner's pool of adrenaline refreshes after 8 hours of rest.

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level or higher if a runner makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the runner is wearing light or no armor. A helpless runner does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Parkour (Ex): A runner is particularly skilled at getting to places quickly with the least amount of expended energy. A runner of at least 3rd level can move through non-magical difficult terrain as easily as normal terrain. The runner can also climb at half speed at no penalty to the Climb check and climb at full speed with only a -5 penalty to the Climb check.

Additionally, a runner adds one quarter his class level (rounded down) + his Int bonus (if any) to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Jump, Tumble, and Use Rope checks and gains Roofwalker as a bonus feat even if he doesn't meet the Prerequisites.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Beginning at 3rd level, a runner retains his Dex bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dex bonus to AC if immobilized. If a runner already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

Acrobatic Attack (Ex): Beginning at 4th level, if a runner succeeds on a Tumble check to move through an enemy’s space, his enemy must make a reflex save (with a DC of the result of the Tumble check). Upon a failed save the runner's next melee or ranged attack during his current turn catches that foe flat-footed.

Additionally, the runner may use Tumble instead of Bluff when making a feint and may feint as a move action. If the runner possess the Improved Feint feat he may instead make a feint as a swift action.

Bonus Feats: At 4th level and every four levels thereafter a runner gains a bonus feat selected from the following list: Acrobatic, Acrobatic Strike, Adaptable Flanker, Agile, Athletic, Brachiation, Combat Acrobat, Combat Cloak Expert, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Crowd Tactics , Danger Sense, Daredevil Athlete, Deft Opportunist, Dodge, Far Shot, Freerunner, Guerrilla Scout, Guerrilla Warrior, Hear the Unseen, Improved Initiative, Leap Attack, Leap of the Heavens, Lightning Reflexes, Lunging Strike, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Quick Reconnoiter, Rapid Reload, Roof-Jumper, Shot on the Run, Skill Focus, Track, Tumbling Feint, Tunnel Fighting, Vexing Flanker.

Fleet of Foot (Ex)*: Starting at 5th Level, the runner is able to tumble at his normal speed without penalty. The runner may also attempt to tumble while running or charging, albeit at a -5 penalty.

Great Leap (Ex): A runner is able to jump with incredible efficiency, starting at 6th level, a runner always makes Jump checks as if he were running and doubles the bonus from possessing the Run feat, enabling him to make long jumps without a running start and granting a +8 bonus on the jump. This ability can be used only if he is wearing light or no armor and is carrying no more than a light load. Additionally, the runner does not have a maximum height he can jump when making a Jump check.

Airborne Assault (Ex): A runner of 6th level or higher can, as part of the action used to make a Jump check, make a single attack against a single target between the starting point and the ending point of the jump as part of the move action.

Freefall Expertise (Ex): A runner of 7th level or higher is able to lessen the impact when landing from a fall or jump. The runner treats the distance fallen as if it was 10ft less for every two class levels he possesses. At 14th level, he can fall any distance without injury as long as he is within arms reach of a solid, vertical surface. The runner still lessens the distance fallen by 10ft for every two class levels for falls farther than arms reach away from a solid, vertical surface. This can be further reduced by with a Tumble check.

Waterwalk (Ex): A runner of at least 8th level is able to run across liquid surfaces as if they were solid ground. The runner must begin and end his movement on a solid surface. Moving across harmful substances (such as acid or lava) still damages the runner normally.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 9th level and higher, a runner can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the runner by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has runner levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character.

Lasting Adrenaline (Ex): A runner of 9th level has learned to stretch the benefits of his adrenaline to new lengths. The benefits from the adrenaline now last for five times their normal duration (5 rounds for vigor, power, and agility, five minutes for revitalization). Celerity extends its extra attacks to five attack actions or full-attack actions once per round. If a runner doesn't attack in a round when this ability is active the extra attacks for that round are wasted.

Improved Evasion (Ex): At 11th level, a runner’s evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless runner does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Lunging Assault (Ex): A runner of 11th level or higher can make a sudden strike attack when he moves at least ten feet during the round, including on a charge or when using Airborne Assault.

Improved Running (Ex): At 12th level, a runner can run at six times his normal movement speed instead of five times his normal movement speed.

Improved Parkour (Ex): Once a runner attains 13th level, he no longer takes a penalty to Climb checks for climbing at full speed. Additionally, the runner can run along walls and other vertical surfaces as if they were the ground as long as he begins and ends his movement on a flat surface. The runner may also make Jump checks as a free action during thr movement to move from one such surface to another and continue running as long as he moves at least ten feet between each such jump.

Greater Running (Ex): At 16th level, a runner can run at seven times his normal movement speed instead of six times his normal movement speed. This replaces the benefits of Improved Running.

Free Movement (Ex): Starting at 17th level, a runner can even ignore magical impediments as if under the constant effect of a Freedom of Movement spell except it is extraordinary in nature.

Enduring Adrenaline (Ex): Upon attaining 18th level, the runner has learned to stretch the benefits of his adrenaline even further. The benefits from the adrenaline now last for ten times their normal duration (10 rounds for vigor, power, and agility, ten minutes for revitalization). Celerity extends its extra attacks to ten attacks or full-attacks once per round. If a runner doesn't attack in a round when this ability is active the extra attacks for that round are wasted. This ability replaces the benefits of the Lasting Adrenaline ability.

Defy Gravity (Ex): At 19th level, the runner has gained the ability to defy the pull of earth for a short time. The runner may run through the air as if it was a solid surface as long as he begins and ends his turn on a solid surface. Additionally, the runner may move up to ten times his normal movement speed when running.

Eternal Adrenaline (Ex): At 20th level, a runner's body is constantly laced with adrenaline, as long as the runner has one point in his adrenaline pool he gains a +4 bonus to his Str and Dex, a +4 bonus to damage rolls, a +2 Dodge bonus to AC and reflex saves, Fast Healing 2, and one extra attack with each attack or full-attack action. These bonuses do not stack with the bonuses granted by the Adrenaline ability.
__________________________________________________ ______________

*Credit for Fleet of Foot goes to Othesemo

[WyvernLord]

I looked over the class and I really like it, especially the adrenaline ability. But an ability to turn while running would be very good in an mobile urban class, even more so with the amount of run speed multipliers it has.

[EdroGrimshell]

I looked over the class and I really like it, especially the adrenaline ability. But an ability to turn while running would be very good in an mobile urban class, even more so with the amount of run speed multipliers it has.

Actually you can turn while running, i just looked in the SRD. It's only charging that has the no turn restriction

[Hanuman]

Excellent, om nom nom.

[Daftendirekt]

Is it just me, or does (2 * class level) * CON modifier for your adrenaline pool seem HUGE?

[EdroGrimshell]

Is it just me, or does (2 * class level) * CON modifier for your adrenaline pool seem HUGE?

Oh, thanks for the spot, i was supposed to remove the "twice" from that when i added Lasting Adrenaline

[WyvernLord]

So what would an enhancement bonus do to adrenaline uses?

[EdroGrimshell]

So what would an enhancement bonus do to adrenaline uses?

It'd increase the max pool but wouldn't give you extra points just for putting it on, and if the enhancement bonus vanishes and you have over your new maximum, the excess are dispersed

[Seerow]

Is it just me, or past level 9 does it seem like the character should always have everything up?

I mean, with a modest +3 con mod at level 9, you have 27 adrenaline points. That's enough to have all 5 buffs going for 25 rounds of combat each day. How often do you need more than that?

At 18th level, you have probably a +6 con mod, for 108 adrenalin points. This means you can activate each of the 5 abilities 21 times, for 210 rounds per day.


Now having it all up all the time doesn't bother me too much. You're a really fast, stronger barbarian. Okay, still high tier 4, maybe low tier 3 (thanks to the skills and mobility) quality. But it does make the level 20 capstone seem pretty meh, given the bonuses it gives are going to be always overwritten by the full thing.

[Othesemo]

I like this class a great deal. Here're a few thoughts.

Firstly, I'm not quite getting the flavor for sudden strike. I believe that it was originally introduced for the ninja, and mirrors the rogue. This makes sense, since both class archtypes include backstabbing and the like. However, I don't see the typical freerunner having this type of training. However, I do see a suibtable replacement- Skirmish (From the Scout in CA). It fits the flavor quite well, I think, and has a similar effect. This would also free up lunging assault.

I like concept and crunch for the adrenaline abilities. However, it seems that past level 10 or so, it becomes largely arbitrary since the runner can have all five buffs on him for just about all the combat he's liable to do in a day. I'd suggest decreasing it to Class Level/2 * Con modifier, or possibly making it Class Level+Con Mod. Either one should make it more important to conserve your points and spend them wisely.

Next, the parkour ability's latter effect seems to be making this a bit too MAD. Since the class has 8+ Skill points, Intelligence isn't very important. In fact, an Intelligence of only 10 is necessary to get all of the commonly used acrobatic skills. Because of this, I imagine that most runners wouldn't have an intelligence above 12 unless they're using a very generous point buy system (or they're just lucky). I'd suggest making it Class level/2 or 4.

On the subject of airborne assault, you might want to clarify what type of action it is. As written, it would be a move action, and would allow you to both move and attack. In fact, you could do so twice in a round, hypothetically against the same opponent.

I have a question on Improved Parkour- You say that jumping is a free action. Does this mean that the jump does not take up any movement speed? Or simply that it can be done at any time?

Defy gravity seems a bit ludicrous. At that point, you're able to run at just shy of 100 ft/second (that's 68 mph), you're able to run over water, and you can run up walls. The mechanical benefit provided is minimal, and just seems... excessive. I'd suggest replacing it with something else perhaps a bit more useful and flavorful that running even faster.

Eternal adrenaline is a reasonable capstone. Not the best, but not in need of replacement.

I also have two suggestions- Firstly, this class needs the ability to avoid attacks of opportunity. I'd suggest taking a leaf out of the thief acrobat's book and adding something like this-

Fleet of Foot- Starting at x Level, the runner is able to tumble at his normal speed without penalty. The runner may also attempt to tumble while running or charging, albeit at a -5 penalty.

Secondly, I'd also advise adding an ability that allows the runner to retain his dexterity bonus to AC even while climbing, balancing, and the like. I'm fairly certain that this is not already covered by uncanny dodge (although I might be wrong).

[EdroGrimshell]

I like this class a great deal. Here're a few thoughts.

Thanks, I actually made this for a specific game i'll be playing in soon and made it rather quickly, so it kinda needs some refining.

Firstly, I'm not quite getting the flavor for sudden strike. I believe that it was originally introduced for the ninja, and mirrors the rogue. This makes sense, since both class archtypes include backstabbing and the like. However, I don't see the typical freerunner having this type of training. However, I do see a suibtable replacement- Skirmish (From the Scout in CA). It fits the flavor quite well, I think, and has a similar effect. This would also free up lunging assault.

I prefer sudden strike over skirmish, the runner is supposed to shift and get around his oppnent and attack him from odd angles, hence the Tumble for Feints thing, it helps to fit that idea. I was thinking of adding skirmish in addition to the sudden strike but thought it a bit to much.

I like concept and crunch for the adrenaline abilities. However, it seems that past level 10 or so, it becomes largely arbitrary since the runner can have all five buffs on him for just about all the combat he's liable to do in a day. I'd suggest decreasing it to Class Level/2 * Con modifier, or possibly making it Class Level+Con Mod. Either one should make it more important to conserve your points and spend them wisely.

Yea, Seerow brought up that concern as well, i think i will reduce it, esspecially with the increases to the time that each point lasts. Class Level + Con seems like the best option ATM as well.

Next, the parkour ability's latter effect seems to be making this a bit too MAD. Since the class has 8+ Skill points, Intelligence isn't very important. In fact, an Intelligence of only 10 is necessary to get all of the commonly used acrobatic skills. Because of this, I imagine that most runners wouldn't have an intelligence above 12 unless they're using a very generous point buy system (or they're just lucky). I'd suggest making it Class level/2 or 4.

The Int to skills is actually a fluff ability from real life, Parkour Artists learn to calculate their movements on the fly very quickly to avoid having a crash and make their movements more efficient. I can change it, but i just like the intelligence option.

On the subject of airborne assault, you might want to clarify what type of action it is. As written, it would be a move action, and would allow you to both move and attack. In fact, you could do so twice in a round, hypothetically against the same opponent.

It's part of the move action.

I have a question on Improved Parkour- You say that jumping is a free action. Does this mean that the jump does not take up any movement speed? Or simply that it can be done at any time?

You can make a jump anytime you move ten feet while running across a wall. Sorta like how the Prince from Prince of Persia can jump from wall to wall.

Defy gravity seems a bit ludicrous. At that point, you're able to run at just shy of 100 ft/second (that's 68 mph), you're able to run over water, and you can run up walls. The mechanical benefit provided is minimal, and just seems... excessive. I'd suggest replacing it with something else perhaps a bit more useful and flavorful that running even faster.

That was actually the original capstone, it's sorta like flying only it's limited. I'd keep this really as an add-on to another ability, but i'm not sure what it'd be ATM. Any suggestions?

Eternal adrenaline is a reasonable capstone. Not the best, but not in need of replacement.

It was the first that came to mind at the time, i like it as well really, but it is kinda lacking. I'm hoping to make some minor additions to it to make it better.

I also have two suggestions- Firstly, this class needs the ability to avoid attacks of opportunity. I'd suggest taking a leaf out of the thief acrobat's book and adding something like this-

Fleet of Foot- Starting at x Level, the runner is able to tumble at his normal speed without penalty. The runner may also attempt to tumble while running or charging, albeit at a -5 penalty.

Secondly, I'd also advise adding an ability that allows the runner to retain his dexterity bonus to AC even while climbing, balancing, and the like. I'm fairly certain that this is not already covered by uncanny dodge (although I might be wrong).

I'll probably do that, i'll probably add it as part of the parkour abilities. I'd like to hear your thoughts on what else may be in need of work.

Thanks for the critique, i've been waiting for a big one to get some real solid info on most of the class instead of just one or two features.

[eftexar]

May I suggest placing the abbreviation of the books the feats come from? It will make finding them easier.
I also assume that adrenaline is recovered after a nights rest, but I don't actually see anything that mentions recovery (unless I missed something).

[EdroGrimshell]

May I suggest placing the abbreviation of the books the feats come from? It will make finding them easier.
I also assume that adrenaline is recovered after a nights rest, but I don't actually see anything that mentions recovery (unless I missed something).

Will do once i get access to my books again

[Oindoth]

I like the look of this, but I'm a tad bit disappointed by the capstone, since it's both passive and not very significant. Is there any way to fix that?

[EdroGrimshell]

I like the look of this, but I'm a tad bit disappointed by the capstone, since it's both passive and not very significant. Is there any way to fix that?

Said i'd be adding to it.

Also, most of the class is passive, it's meant to be that way. And i prefer passive capstones, they make more sense to me.

[SilverSavio]

I may not be the best judge of things when it comes to homebrew, but for a class named The Runner you really do let him do just that. Monk 20 can out move a Runner 20 in a move action for attacking (Move Action + Standard Action) or out jog the runner (Double Move Action). There is only one thing letting the Runner take advantage of such a great Run speed, and that is Airborne Assault + Celerity + Lunging Assault. You also have conflicting statements about how many extra attacks Celerity gives. Here it's

Celerity: The runner can make an extra attack as a part of any one attack or full-attack this round. The number of additional attacks increases to two at 10th level, and to three at 18th level.

But here
Lasting Adrenaline (Ex): A runner of 9th level ...Celerity extends its extra attacks to five attack or full-attacks once per round. ...


And here
Enduring Adrenaline (Ex): ... Celerity extends its extra attacks to ten attacks or full-attacks once per round. ...
So which is it? I suggest you up his base speed a couple a more times and clear up Celerity.

Also WyvernLord was right. You should give the class an ability to turn while running because:

Run

You can run as a full-round action. (If you do, you do not also get a 5-foot step.) When you run, you can move up to four times your speed in a straight line (or three times your speed if you’re in heavy armor). You lose any Dexterity bonus to AC unless you have the Run feat.
And

Run [General]
Benefit

When running, you move five times your normal speed (if wearing medium, light, or no armor and carrying no more than a medium load) or four times your speed (if wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load). If you make a jump after a running start (see the Jump skill description), you gain a +4 bonus on your Jump check. While running, you retain your Dexterity bonus to AC.

There is mention that you cannot turn while running, and the feat does not allow you to turn either.

Edit: Person_Man has made an interesting homebrew conserning running classes. One Prestige (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11227589) and the other a Maneuver based. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204591) You may wish to take a look and get some ideas.

[EdroGrimshell]

Actually, you got it sorta wrong, it says extra attacks applied to one attack action or full attack once per round (so if you get an extra standard action and attack with it you can only apply the extra attacks to one instance of attack) for five rounds and ten rounds.

[SilverSavio]

Ah I see now for the Celerity issue, but I believe my other points still stand.

[EdroGrimshell]

Ah I see now for the Celerity issue, but I believe my other points still stand.

Already altered the run thing under Fast Movement, which i will be boosting shortly to 10ft/2 levels (max 100ft)

[Kurtmuran]

i like this, remember me a wiki class named speed demon

[Rapidghoul]

I was going to agree with the point that a Monk out fast-movement-ing a Runner was kind of disappointing. I also like the abilities that emulate running across water, running through the air, etc.

Now I just have to wonder about the Run multipliers. Don't get me wrong, I really like that the class runs better than anything else, but it gets a little excessive. At 20th level, even a halfling ends up traveling 1200ft per round while running. This either means you have some really impressive sized maps and use large scale areas for battles or (more likely) the multiplier becomes useless at later levels since no one is going to bother using it all. Maybe scale it back?

[EdroGrimshell]

I was going to agree with the point that a Monk out fast-movement-ing a Runner was kind of disappointing. I also like the abilities that emulate running across water, running through the air, etc.

Now I just have to wonder about the Run multipliers. Don't get me wrong, I really like that the class runs better than anything else, but it gets a little excessive. At 20th level, even a halfling ends up traveling 1200ft per round while running. This either means you have some really impressive sized maps and use large scale areas for battles or (more likely) the multiplier becomes useless at later levels since no one is going to bother using it all. Maybe scale it back?

1) The fast movement has been increased to equal 100ft by level 20 instead of 50ft.

2) i did the run multipliers because that's their thing, i can tone it back a bit considering, but i would like something to replace them first

3) I based the "walk-on-water/walls/air" thing on a feat from Dreamscarred Press.

[Soliloquy]

Not too long ago I played a monk, and the thing that I had him be really good at was speed. I didn't take any prestige classes, only because they didn't increase speed, I had ranks in the movement skills, (tumble, jump, etc) and chose my race based on speed. Now I see a class that will allow my character to, at twentieth level go over a mile a minute. I will, most certainly use this in my next player.

[Dragon Star]

1) The fast movement has been increased to equal 100ft by level 20 instead of 50ft.

2) i did the run multipliers because that's their thing, i can tone it back a bit considering, but i would like something to replace them first

3) I based the "walk-on-water/walls/air" thing on a feat from Dreamscarred Press.

Don't reduce the run multipliers. Just make them do something. Like if you run 50ft away from an enemy and then back (100ft of movement) you get an attack against them. Actually, that might be a good capstone. You would get 9 attacks per round, but it's not like the class does a huge amount if damage anyway, it requires a pretty big area, and fighters are getting four attacks at a higher bonus and probably with better special effects on each one.

[EdroGrimshell]

Well, I've been thinking of a way to improve on this, I'm thinking of making it an initiator.

I'd like feedback about disciplines that I could use for this and possible mechanics, or if it's a bad idea to do this.

[WyvernLord]

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7754436&postcount=348) might be helpful.

From the standard ones I'd say Desert Wind, if you don't mind the supernatural, Shadow Hand, same, and Setting Sun, maybe Tiger Claw, I think those four have the most movement based stuff.

I support the addition of maneuvers. The class is fun and and has some cool tricks but needs some options if they get trapped (not that that is easy to do) or to finish a battle quickly.

[EdroGrimshell]

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7754436&postcount=348) might be helpful.

From the standard ones I'd say Desert Wind, if you don't mind the supernatural, Shadow Hand, same, and Setting Sun, maybe Tiger Claw, I think those four have the most movement based stuff.

I support the addition of maneuvers. The class is fun and and has some cool tricks but needs some options if they get trapped (not that that is easy to do) or to finish a battle quickly.

Hm, I can see Fool's Grip, Stolid Sphinx, Tiger Claw, and possibly a new discipline specifically for the Runner. If there are any other disciplines that do good with improvised weapons maybe those too. Oncoming Storm, Leaping Gale, Gentle Breeze, Coin's Edge, and Dancing Leaf fit.

So initial list of disciplines is as follows
Discipline|Focus
Fool's Grip|Improvised Weapons
Stolid Sphinx|Improvised Weapons
Tiger Claw|Feral Attacks
Oncoming Storm|Fast, Accurate Attacks
Leaping Gale|Speed and Air
Gentle Breeze|Speed and Movement
Coin's Edge|Luck
Dancing Leaf|Dodging and Defense

I want to narrow this down to three or four disciplines, thoughts?

[SamBurke]

So, coincidence! I've been listening to the Mirror's Edge sound track, and loving it... then this shows up.

So, here's my main critique: where's the wall running? I mean, most everything else is here, but... I'm looking to make the EXPERIENCE of running as Faith in Mirror's Edge in the game. So there needs to be more short-term, in combat mobility options. Things like running on walls to fight, and such like that... because you are using this in a standard game of DnD, with a party, in a generally small space. The adrenaline is a nice touch, but that's enough for a dip. You need cool options pretty much every other level... oh, and don't worry about the power. At this point, this is barely T4, something which may need to be addressed.

[Raiki]

Well, I've been thinking of a way to improve on this, I'm thinking of making it an initiator.

I'd like feedback about disciplines that I could use for this and possible mechanics, or if it's a bad idea to do this.

Ugh. I followed this thread back in January because I loved the concept, and while I don't think it's perfect, adding melee spell-lists certainly won't make it more interesting or more appropriate to its niche.

I'll stop back in tomorrow or the next day to re-read the class and offer suggestions (unfortunately, I don't have the spare time today), but at the moment just let me go on record saying that taking a perfectly functional, mundane class and adding ToB mechanics to it is, in my opinion, the wrong decision.

~R~

[EdroGrimshell]

So, coincidence! I've been listening to the Mirror's Edge sound track, and loving it... then this shows up.

So, here's my main critique: where's the wall running? I mean, most everything else is here, but... I'm looking to make the EXPERIENCE of running as Faith in Mirror's Edge in the game. So there needs to be more short-term, in combat mobility options. Things like running on walls to fight, and such like that... because you are using this in a standard game of DnD, with a party, in a generally small space. The adrenaline is a nice touch, but that's enough for a dip. You need cool options pretty much every other level... oh, and don't worry about the power. At this point, this is barely T4, something which may need to be addressed.

Look under Improved Parkour. I'm planning to move it to an earlier level considering the other abilities it gains before then (walking on water)

Ugh. I followed this thread back in January because I loved the concept, and while I don't think it's perfect, adding melee spell-lists certainly won't make it more interesting or more appropriate to its niche.

I'll stop back in tomorrow or the next day to re-read the class and offer suggestions (unfortunately, I don't have the spare time today), but at the moment just let me go on record saying that taking a perfectly functional, mundane class and adding ToB mechanics to it is, in my opinion, the wrong decision.

Heh, only reason I intend to is because certain disciplines work with it surprisingly well. It's not a direct upgrade, it's just an option.

Any other thigns you can think of would be most appreciated Raiki.

[Soliloquy]

I would like to state that I agree with Raiki, that ToB doesn't fit this class, and would like to propose an alternative.

Quickening Run: Each round in which a Runner takes a full round action to run as fast as he can in a straight line, his speed temporarily increases by 10ft.

At X level the Runner may turn up to X degrees while using Quickening Run.

At X level the Runner may turn up to X degrees while using Quickening Run.

At X level the Runner may turn up to X degrees while using Quickening Run.

At X level the Runner may turn as much as desired while using Quickening Run.

A Runner whose speed reaches 50 can do blank.

A Runner whose speed reaches 80 can do a better blank.

A Runner whose speed reaches 100 can do an ultimate blank.

A Runner whose speed reaches 250 can do whatever he wants.

[zetsu1919]

Wow, great Jon with the class, this is the first runner class that has impressed me, it's a hard archetype to make good, and you've done a fine job

[JKTrickster]

I disagree - I think an initiator would be perfect for this.

What you can do is that you can key the recovery method to work off of how much feet the Runner has moved in a single round. For example, every 10 ft allows the Runner to recover one maneuver.

Now I didn't make this up: this is an idea from another piece of homebrew, the Vanguard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13098583) - which is more or less the same thing as yours.

I like how the Vanguard has one of the most unique recovery methods for initiators and it ties in so well with the general idea of Runners.

Of course that class has some lackings of its own and I would greatly appreciate if you picked up where Person_Man left off!

[Merchant]

My suggestions for Disciplines should be any that focus on unarmed base because I see a Free runner being unarmed about 99% of the time while free running.

Though I said that about being unarmed by choices would be:
Oncoming Storm (a few very cool disarming abilities)
Monkey Grip aka Maula Kae (focuses on grappling I see the free runner as those martial arts where they protagonist is very mobile grabbing at odd moments and throwing or punching someone)
Dancing Leaf(counters and bonuses to dodge)
Army of One(iffy because it is so battle-centered but to me it focuses on speed)
Lightening Fox(Person Man's seems perfect as well)

Though the rogue has its own abilities, but I see Defensive Roll a very FreeRunner technique. Maybe create a class feature similar to it and then improve on it.

That's all I got so far. But I just wanted to say that I think you did great work on this class. The more I read the less I was able to critique. I had ideas but it seems like the basics of the whole principle of free running has been brought out in this class.

Oh one more thing. Should there be a penalty if you can not use one or your hands? I know you have the running on walls and jumping from a run, but it just crossed my mind. What about getting a circumstance bonus if you stretch for an hour in the morning? Sort of like using masterwork tools, but for parkour it is just stretching and preparing your body?

EDIT:
Army of One is actually quite redundant seeing as how you get many attacks already. Same goes for those 'air' based Disciplines. They are redundant with the class features you already have. I'm not particularly thrilled by putting in Disciplines but at the same time it makes sense that people that refine movement would probably come up with fighting style of sorts for when they get into tough situations.

If you don't want to focus on fighting then perhaps bonuses to escape artist which adds both to combat as well as slipping through tight spaces, right? Disarming and Escape artistry should be added. If this is not a combat oriented class then simply putting others on the same field as him/her should be priority.

EDIT2:

I know you can run up a wall. Is free falling considered "running" down a wall?

There is no running on a ceiling, right? I'm currently trying to visualize a battle versus two Runners. If you do add disciplines. I would say they have to choose 1 maybe(!) 2 out of the 4 or 5 choices. That way each runner has his own style ingrained through his training/personality.

EDIT3:

Saw a maneuver (Oncoming Storm) that got rid of concealment which made me think, what if you got a class feature that helped you make use of your surroundings to gain concealment.

There was a maneuver (Lightning Fox) that allowed you to kick up dust, dirt, etc.. That seems like a good and right flavored ability for the user.

Fools grip is good simply for the weapons that one might find while running. What about doing some ranged combat while running. Like kicking a can to ricochet and hit someone following, all while running? I think whips might be flavorful weapon and tool. Maybe some kind of technique for swinging though it isn't really free running.

Increase reach by 5 feet(class feature)
Zig Zagging- Sidestepping while running, giving a blur effect?
Tripping seems important too while tumbling. Tripping bonus?

(lightning fox) had a Momentum maneuver. I suggest a class feature that gives you a bonus to bull rushes, strength checks, etc [check the maneuver] depending the distance you have traveled in one round.

[JKTrickster]

A cool mechanic that could emulate how Runners "dodge" attacks:

You could have them gain the ability to move X amount of feet each time they are targeted by a spell/attack or if that spell/attack misses and the Runner makes her save. The amount the Runner can move can be scaling with level as well.

Basically it would allow the Runner to re-position herself constantly throughout the battlefield as opponents try to take hits at her.

[EdroGrimshell]

I would like to state that I agree with Raiki, that ToB doesn't fit this class, and would like to propose an alternative.

Quickening Run: Each round in which a Runner takes a full round action to run as fast as he can in a straight line, his speed temporarily increases by 10ft.

At X level the Runner may turn up to X degrees while using Quickening Run.

At X level the Runner may turn up to X degrees while using Quickening Run.

At X level the Runner may turn up to X degrees while using Quickening Run.

At X level the Runner may turn as much as desired while using Quickening Run.

A Runner whose speed reaches 50 can do blank.

A Runner whose speed reaches 80 can do a better blank.

A Runner whose speed reaches 100 can do an ultimate blank.

A Runner whose speed reaches 250 can do whatever he wants.

Heh, I would have done something like this from the beginning if I didn't have trouble with thinking up stuff for it. If I think of something, I may add it to the run modifiers I have on the class.

Wow, great Jon with the class, this is the first runner class that has impressed me, it's a hard archetype to make good, and you've done a fine job

Thanks, I saw this video of a Parkour Artist that actually used it to fight, and that was essentially the inspiration behind this class. I used what I saw, and mechanically made it, then gave some extras to match what I see being the draw of the archtype brought to the extreme.

I disagree - I think an initiator would be perfect for this.

What you can do is that you can key the recovery method to work off of how much feet the Runner has moved in a single round. For example, every 10 ft allows the Runner to recover one maneuver.

Now I didn't make this up: this is an idea from another piece of homebrew, the Vanguard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13098583) - which is more or less the same thing as yours.

I like how the Vanguard has one of the most unique recovery methods for initiators and it ties in so well with the general idea of Runners.

Of course that class has some lackings of its own and I would greatly appreciate if you picked up where Person_Man left off!

I saw the Vanguard, and I have to admit, there is one part of it I like that I hadn't thought of, the Spring Attack line. Gonna see about implementing that somewhere since it fits so well.

My suggestions for Disciplines should be any that focus on unarmed base because I see a Free runner being unarmed about 99% of the time while free running.

I see improvised weapons (a la Jackie Chan) being a staple as much as unarmed. Specifically, I have an image of a runner using a modified grappling hook as a weapon.

Though I said that about being unarmed by choices would be:
Oncoming Storm (a few very cool disarming abilities)
Monkey Grip aka Maula Kae (focuses on grappling I see the free runner as those martial arts where they protagonist is very mobile grabbing at odd moments and throwing or punching someone)
Dancing Leaf(counters and bonuses to dodge)
Army of One(iffy because it is so battle-centered but to me it focuses on speed)
Lightening Fox(Person Man's seems perfect as well)

I do have a few of those listed, I've seen the Lightning Fox discipline, and I don't think it quite Clicks. I will try remaking it to be more up to my own image of the runner, a mobile improviser.

Though the rogue has its own abilities, but I see Defensive Roll a very FreeRunner technique. Maybe create a class feature similar to it and then improve on it.

I can see that, I'll see about working it in there. It does make sense to do that, and I like the ability. May make a modified version.

That's all I got so far. But I just wanted to say that I think you did great work on this class. The more I read the less I was able to critique. I had ideas but it seems like the basics of the whole principle of free running has been brought out in this class.

Glad to hear it, this was a relatively simple class compared to what I usually attempt to create, but it still needs some tweaking.

Oh one more thing. Should there be a penalty if you can not use one or your hands? I know you have the running on walls and jumping from a run, but it just crossed my mind. What about getting a circumstance bonus if you stretch for an hour in the morning? Sort of like using masterwork tools, but for parkour it is just stretching and preparing your body?

Hm, maybe a feat for the stretching, that'd be useful and a good option, but not so good that everyone would take it. I don't think there'd be a penalty for having no hands, at least not mechanically ATM. GMs would probably rule it though.

EDIT:
Army of One is actually quite redundant seeing as how you get many attacks already. Same goes for those 'air' based Disciplines. They are redundant with the class features you already have. I'm not particularly thrilled by putting in Disciplines but at the same time it makes sense that people that refine movement would probably come up with fighting style of sorts for when they get into tough situations.

Part of what I'm doing would be if I made this an initiator would be to remove redundant features, or meld together some disciplines to make this ones unique discipline. Not direct Copy Pastes, of course, but as inspiration they should be interesting.

If you don't want to focus on fighting then perhaps bonuses to escape artist which adds both to combat as well as slipping through tight spaces, right? Disarming and Escape artistry should be added. If this is not a combat oriented class then simply putting others on the same field as him/her should be priority.

That'd be an interesting take, it'd definitely be a good way to build the runner. I'll open up some options for it.

EDIT2:

I know you can run up a wall. Is free falling considered "running" down a wall?

No, but with the freefall expertise ability it may as well be.

There is no running on a ceiling, right? I'm currently trying to visualize a battle versus two Runners. If you do add disciplines. I would say they have to choose 1 maybe(!) 2 out of the 4 or 5 choices. That way each runner has his own style ingrained through his training/personality.

Not unless you have Spider Climb on ya. No running on the ceiling. And the maneuvers known and readied would be rather low because it's a secondary focus. It's just tricks they pick up, really.

EDIT3:

Saw a maneuver (Oncoming Storm) that got rid of concealment which made me think, what if you got a class feature that helped you make use of your surroundings to gain concealment.

Yea, like dodging around an attack, pulling items in front of you, and that sort of thing, I can see that working and may incorporate it as a class feature or a feat. Not sure which yet.

There was a maneuver (Lightning Fox) that allowed you to kick up dust, dirt, etc.. That seems like a good and right flavored ability for the user.

Like i said, I may redo the Lightning Fox Discipline, and that may be one of the maneuvers that carries over. I'm going to look through the disciplines for inspiration.

Fools grip is good simply for the weapons that one might find while running. What about doing some ranged combat while running. Like kicking a can to ricochet and hit someone following, all while running? I think whips might be flavorful weapon and tool. Maybe some kind of technique for swinging though it isn't really free running.

Yep, this is exactly what I was thinking when I thought of adding it. Same with the Stolid Sphinx

Increase reach by 5 feet(class feature)
Zig Zagging- Sidestepping while running, giving a blur effect?
Tripping seems important too while tumbling. Tripping bonus?

(lightning fox) had a Momentum maneuver. I suggest a class feature that gives you a bonus to bull rushes, strength checks, etc [check the maneuver] depending the distance you have traveled in one round.

I've already got ideas for that.

A cool mechanic that could emulate how Runners "dodge" attacks:

You could have them gain the ability to move X amount of feet each time they are targeted by a spell/attack or if that spell/attack misses and the Runner makes her save. The amount the Runner can move can be scaling with level as well.

Basically it would allow the Runner to re-position herself constantly throughout the battlefield as opponents try to take hits at her.

Sounds interesting, and definitely useful. Will almost definitely incorporate it into the class features somewhere.

[lt_murgen]

I am going to ask a simple question. Please do not take this as a criticism of your work above, which I think is excellent.

But why not simply make a set of feats to accomplish what you want, and make them thief / skill pre-requisite based? Why do we need another base class?

[Fawriel]

I find it interesting how we took a pretty similar concept and approached it in very different ways! This class looks like a lot of fun and I might want to play it at some point! I've been meaning to make a parkour-style Prestige Class myself, but now I wonder if that's actually going to be necessary...

I can't give you a lot of criticism on game mechanics, but there's two things I'd like to comment on. This is a minor point, but one of the first things you mention in the description is "dirty tricks" and the works, but the class itself doesn't really have any of that, except for the ability to attack with a skillful tumble, which sounds less dirty and more awesome. :smalltongue: So the point is, I think calling the class a class for dirty fighters doesn't really hit the core of it, which I think lies in the thrill-seeking, so it only serves to make it more restrictive than it needs to be in terms of flavor.

The other thing I find odd is that the obscene speed at which the runner ends up moving eventually seems to be at odds with how it's a class focused on moving in a city environment, which seems too crowded to allow moving at that sort of speed without breaking some sort of speed limit and a lot of pedestrian bones. Buuut that feature's obviously too deeply implemented to change. I just think it's a little strange, but nothing horrible.

[EdroGrimshell]

I find it interesting how we took a pretty similar concept and approached it in very different ways! This class looks like a lot of fun and I might want to play it at some point! I've been meaning to make a parkour-style Prestige Class myself, but now I wonder if that's actually going to be necessary...

Thank you, I just saw your Wanderer class myself. However, I will point out that there is a major thematic difference in our classes, yours is an explorer, mine is a thrill seeker. Honestly, I think the two could actually work well together with little trouble or overlap.

I can't give you a lot of criticism on game mechanics, but there's two things I'd like to comment on. This is a minor point, but one of the first things you mention in the description is "dirty tricks" and the works, but the class itself doesn't really have any of that, except for the ability to attack with a skillful tumble, which sounds less dirty and more awesome. :smalltongue: So the point is, I think calling the class a class for dirty fighters doesn't really hit the core of it, which I think lies in the thrill-seeking, so it only serves to make it more restrictive than it needs to be in terms of flavor.

Sudden Strike and the Feint abilities is essentially what encompasses the dirty tricks. The Maneuvers I may add (which will likely include a couple homebrew disciplines I will make myself) will cover more specific cases.

The other thing I find odd is that the obscene speed at which the runner ends up moving eventually seems to be at odds with how it's a class focused on moving in a city environment, which seems too crowded to allow moving at that sort of speed without breaking some sort of speed limit and a lot of pedestrian bones. Buuut that feature's obviously too deeply implemented to change. I just think it's a little strange, but nothing horrible.

Heh, yea, these guys are built to run, they move fast and make it work. Also, crowded areas aren't really a problem, these guys are roof runners, backalley acrobats, and crowd walkers for a living, they can get around them fairly easily. The speed is pretty high, I admit, but it's their shtick. Plus, parkour is about getting around obstacles, people included, so it's not as farfetched as you think.

[EdroGrimshell]

Progress for the homebrew disciplines is slow, I'm hoping to have the first one up in the next couple of months. I have a whole list of disciplines for inspiration that I've been looking through, and I decided to make three homebrew disciplines specifically for the runner.

Skyline Daredevil: This is the runner's speed/acrobatics discipline, the main one they'll get and the one that will offer the most damage options. It's essentially for adrenalline junkies.

Alleyway Armory: Essentially a discipline focused heavily on improvisation and improvised weapons. This one will offer some versatility to the runner and ensure they always have a weapon.

Pitfighter's Salvation: This one is for the more devious options, dirty street fighting and gritty combat, will offer a lot of debilitating effects, but not a lot of damage.

Note that the names for these things are placeholders that i picked because they were descriptive. If anyone has better ideas please give a suggestion, esspecially for the last one...

[JKTrickster]

Those sound cool!

Can't wait! :smallbiggrin:

[WyvernLord]

Echoing above statement. Can't wait for those disciplines.
Also I love those names.

[EdroGrimshell]

Progress for the homebrew disciplines is slow, I'm hoping to have the first one up in the next couple of months. I have a whole list of disciplines for inspiration that I've been looking through, and I decided to make three homebrew disciplines specifically for the runner.

Skyline Daredevil: This is the runner's speed/acrobatics discipline, the main one they'll get and the one that will offer the most damage options. It's essentially for adrenalline junkies.

Alleyway Armory: Essentially a discipline focused heavily on improvisation and improvised weapons. This one will offer some versatility to the runner and ensure they always have a weapon.

Pitfighter's Salvation: This one is for the more devious options, dirty street fighting and gritty combat, will offer a lot of debilitating effects, but not a lot of damage.

Note that the names for these things are placeholders that i picked because they were descriptive. If anyone has better ideas please give a suggestion, esspecially for the last one...

I know I've said I'd get to these, but I've had writer's block since the very start and haven't been able to get very far even with all the inspiration I have lined up. I'm hoping to commission someone to make these with what little I have because I honestly cannot get these things down.

And the fact I've never done a discipline before isn't helping any, because these disciplines are kind of ambitious.

Anyone think they could help?

[Dainbramaged01]

Ugh. I followed this thread back in January because I loved the concept, and while I don't think it's perfect, adding melee spell-lists certainly won't make it more interesting or more appropriate to its niche.

I'll stop back in tomorrow or the next day to re-read the class and offer suggestions (unfortunately, I don't have the spare time today), but at the moment just let me go on record saying that taking a perfectly functional, mundane class and adding ToB mechanics to it is, in my opinion, the wrong decision.

~R~

I'm going to directly contradict you, here. Strictly speaking, if one is playing in a campaign that allows and makes use of ToB classes and mechanics, the inclusion of those elements to a T4 class such as this is almost a necesitty. I believe Raiki may be letting his obviously negative opinion of ToB elements color his willingness to neutrally analyze whether, crunch-wise, this is a viable option.

That said, if one is playing more of a core-based game, like Pathfinder, I'd say it's not such a great idea. Also, if maneuvers find their way into the class, I would remove the point-pool mechanic altogether, as various stances and maneuvers can accomplish these same ends, especially if other diciplines from around the Playground are allowed. Another option would be to construct a parkour-styled dicipline, either in lieu of, or in addition to, this class. In the former case, Swordsages would make for perfect practitioners of such a form; in the latter, granting Runners limited access to the dicipline, along with a handful of others, would improve their combat versatility and staying power.

Edit: Wow, bonehead moment on my part. I'd read the entire first page of the thread, and thought it was the end. Diiiiidn't see 'page 2.' So yeah...forget what I said, since you've already done what I suggested! :smallredface:

[WyvernLord]

I'd be willing to try, do you have any notes or basics. I'm thinking a lot of boosts and counters.

[EdroGrimshell]

I'd be willing to try, do you have any notes or basics. I'm thinking a lot of boosts and counters.

I have possibly skills and weapons, a lot of bookmarked disciplines to draw inspiration from, and the fluff. Every maneuver I've made before now I've scrapped because they sucked so badly or directly copied from other people, which I didn't want to do.

Skyline Daredevil: Tumble, Balance, or Escape Artist. Unarmed Strike, Dagger, Shortspear, Quarterstaff, Spear, Shortsword, Rapier, and Whip.

Alleyway Armory: Survival or Appraise. All Improvised Weapons, Unarmed Strike, Dagger, Club, Quarterstaff, Whip, and Spiked Chain.

Pitfighter's Salvation: Bluff or Sleight of Hand. Mainly small weapons: Unarmed Strike, Dagger, Kukri, Punching Dagger, Sickle, Club, Shortspear, and Spiked Chain.

Beyond that is fluff, which is mutable anyway.

[WyvernLord]

I was wondering if you would mind if I used Rushes. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178947) It will be awhile till I have anything to show either way.

[Milo v3]

If and when you turn this into an initiator, will any of the other features be changed or removed?

[EdroGrimshell]

I was wondering if you would mind if I used Rushes. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178947) It will be awhile till I have anything to show either way.

Rushes are absolutely okay, they make sense for the class and I like the mechanic, personally.

If and when you turn this into an initiator, will any of the other features be changed or removed?

Adrenaline will probably be extremely reworked or removed entirely, and the Improved Running features and Fast Movement will be altered to make use of Rushes.