View Full Version : Born of Sun, Born of Moon.
01-12-2012, 07:31 PM
I was just flipping through DiviantArt, and had an interesting idea for a race of beings where all children born during the daytime are male and all those born during the night time are female. If you take a look at some eastern beliefs you see that many aspects of life are divided into masculine/feminine duality light/dark, love/war, yin/yang etc.
So anyway I quickly started thinking "Well ok, if males are born during the day, females at night; then I guess that would mean those born at high-noon would be particularly masculine and those born at midnight would be particularly feminine. What about those born at dawn/dusk? What about those born during a Solar/Lunar eclipse? What about those born just as the sun is hanging in the sky directly over the rising moon?"
I hope this sparks some interest in fleshing this out into an actual race of some kind. They don't even have to be human-but-more, they could be a race of Anthro's where there are all different anthro types depending on when you were born or something like that.
....Anyway I can't wait to see what people think
01-12-2012, 08:21 PM
I was just flipping through DiviantArt, and had an interesting idea for a race of beings where all children born during the daytime are male and all those born during the night time are female. If you take a look at some eastern beliefs you see that many aspects of life are divided into masculine/feminine duality light/dark, love/war, yin/yang etc. Note that Japan has a sun goddess and a moon god. :smalltongue:
Also, Dragon magazine had an issue with feats/ACFs/spells based on what time of day/lunar phase you were born in.
01-12-2012, 09:17 PM
Note that Japan has a sun goddess and a moon god. :smalltongue:Noted, although I think you will find that in Chinese lore and also Wiccan lore, the sun is associated with masculinity and the moon with femininity.
Also, Dragon magazine had an issue with feats/ACFs/spells based on what time of day/lunar phase you were born in.Do you happen to know which one or where I might find that article available online?
01-12-2012, 11:01 PM
Here are the pictures that inspired this little train of thought.
01-13-2012, 01:29 AM
You've piqued my interest. Let me just throw what's popping into my head down onto the page.
As far as I can tell, there are six major divisions amongst this race: Day, Night, High Noon, Midnight, Dawn and Dusk, which you pretty much outlined very much in your first post. That being said, I think to do much of anything with this race, we'd have to assign some basic dualities along the Male/Female line. Obviously there's some of the obvious, Day/Night, Fire/Water, Moon/Sun, but rather than just leave it in a vague sense like that I think we need to critically set out what is male and what is female.
From there, the six different subraces become very interesting. Most who were born would end up being either Day or Night, as those are the longest periods of the day. The High Noon and Midnight individuals would end up being epitomes of whatever traits are associated with their particular duality.
But, the real interesting ones to me are Dawn and Dusk. At first glance it would seem like they'd be basically the same, but I would suggest making them slightly different. Both are transitions, but they are different. Dawn is a time of awakening, a movement from femininity to masculinity, and as such that alone would seem to make this particular subrace likely be slightly more masculine in traits, while Dusk would be slightly more feminine. However, both would be rather androgynous in nature. Further, the connections to both dualities would be very slight. If we were to possibly assign a certain list of traits to the Nights and Days, and then assign more stark abilities to High Noons and Midnights, I would say that Dawns and Dusks would get a little leeway in picking some from both sides.
Now, while those are the most common, there are others. First, there is the Lunar Eclipse, where the moon is completely blocked from the light of the sun and revealed as it is alone, and then there is the Solar Eclipse, where the moon intercepts the sun and blocks it out. So, if we look at it as a blocking of sorts, one is a separating the moon from the sun (Lunar Eclipse), and one is a bridging of the moon and the sun (Solar Eclipse). Because we already have the epitomes of the Male and Female traits in the High Noon and Midnight, I think we should go for a different route with these two. They're slightly more complicated, so bare with me while I explain.
The Solar Eclipses are those in whom the sun and moon have been brought together in perfect unity. In effect, Solar Eclipses could be considered the epitome of the Dawn and Dusks; instead of drawing on a few traits from both sides of the Day and Night, the Solar Eclipse is a near complete togetherness of the two. They would also be androgynous, but in an even more extreme form; in essence, they would be true hermaphrodites, bringing together the dualities.
The Lunar Eclipses, those who are born when the sun and moon are completely separated and negating each other, could therefore be considered the exact opposite of the Solar Eclipses. These are truly the strangest of this race. Lacking a sex and gender completely, they are something of a void, a lacking of both dualities. While most consider the duality a necessary thing, something which requires balance, the Lunar Eclipses are the antithesis of that; they are untyped, strange, alien, and disturbing. Though, some would say they are themselves a necessary part of the balance, as their lacking makes up for the overwhelming togetherness of the Solar Eclipses.
Without nailing down actual traits, I think that's about as far as we can go. I really like the idea, though.
01-13-2012, 01:52 AM
Reminds me a bit of my idea of a race that experiences continual rebirth; their lifespan spanned a single day, in which they were born, grew old, and died, their bodies quickly rotting away, with a reincarnation appearing in the rotten remains.
One thing I'm reminded of as well is that there is this one short story I read where someone's magical power is based off of how long their mother was in child-birth; the longer, the more powerful.
I also think it would be neat if any spells cast to transform into one would have to take the time of day into account; so an Alter Self would require it to be day to transform into a Day, or an Eclipse to transform into one of the Eclipse sexes.
My general thoughts on the "race", as it were:
-They wouldn't even necessarily have the same male/female duality; while those genders would be the most common, I would think that the other 4 categories would be their, with the potential to act as a male or female for the purpose of reproduction.
-The different times of birth wouldn't even necessarily be of the same Type or Size category; hell, certain genders could even be inanimate.
-I'm thinking that the phase of the moon might have some extra effect on the Night gender; perhaps that particular gender is like my rebirth race, where they only live for around a month, but reincarnate at the end of that period?
01-13-2012, 07:17 AM
And what of pre-dawn/sunset? You could make those dipolar, or as another way of saying it a female born at sunset would have masculine characteristics, while those born in the predawn would be male with feminine characteristics.
In reality, men tend to be... more muscular, so a good statistic for males might be a higher strength score.
Women tend to be better at social interaction, so higher Charisma would be a good statistic for females. However, as this is turning out, it shouldn't be limited to such simplicity.
On the subject of Eclipses... these are in essence moments when one heavenly body casts it's shadow over the other. This could give you masculine women born during the day on a solar eclipse, while a lunar eclipse is still merely night. However, a full moon is the sun shining full strength upon the moon.
Alternatively, a Lunar Eclipse could give birth to femenine men. Perhaps merely certain traits or ability modifiers are transfered, or perhaps those born at such times have some natural shape shifting abilities.
Personal inspiration for this idea comes from an old folktale about a kitsune that married a human and had a child, she was driven off by a dog. Each night she would return to him in human form and sleep in his arms. Each morning she would leave in human form.
I was taught that her husbands name was Ono (Oh, no), and her name was Kitsune. (Kit, Soon, nay)
01-14-2012, 12:29 AM
@Domriso: I like what you've put forward so far and I agree that wee need to come up with a list of different dualities and assign them to masculine/feminine.
While trying to do a Wiki-search to see what I could find out about differences between masculine/feminine I came across a number of other Gender Identifications including Androgyne, Bigender, Genderqueer, Pangender, among a few others.
I know there are lists somewhere that identify different dualities that are generally associated with masculine/feminine but right now I don't have the time to look for them.
I also think it would be neat if any spells cast to transform into one would have to take the time of day into account; so an Alter Self would require it to be day to transform into a Day, or an Eclipse to transform into one of the Eclipse sexes. That's a good idea, it could lead to mini quests to discover the proper time of day to turn into the right type of "Race" (we need to come up with a name for these guys.)
-I'm thinking that the phase of the moon might have some extra effect on the Night genderAlso a good idea.
01-14-2012, 06:37 PM
Lets skip the 'confused' genders. Unless you feel those are necessary in a fantasy setting?
01-14-2012, 08:02 PM
I agree that confused genders would be unnecessary but I like the idea of there being varying degrees of gender expression. So far we have Night and Day which are both pretty much average expressions of gender; Dawn and Dusk which i think we're going with having them be more masculine females and more feminine males; Noon and Midnight which are each ...."well endowed" expressions of gender; Solar Eclipses which would be perfect hermaphrodites and Lunar Eclipses which would pretty much be walking Ken Dolls.
Besides I think when they talk about confused genders they're mixing sexual preference into sexual identity which is beyond the scope of this little thought experiment (Not to mention the rules of this board). I certainly pass no judgement on anyone who wants to play a character with a non-"straight"-orientation; although with 6 different gender identities it certainly gives new meaning to "Pansexual". Actually that gives me an interesting side thought; this race would have several different words for different kinds of "Bi-sexual" but again that's a thought for a different forum.
Also you asked about pre-dawn/sunset earlier....... how about if we just say that "Dawn" includes roughly 30 min surrounding the sunrise and "Dusk" includes roughly 30 min surrounding the sunset.
Another thought that just occurred to me; this whole thing only works if we're talking about a planet with only one sun and one moon; otherwise you run into either having a no real night time as there is always a sun in the sky or having a sun and moon both up at the same time all the time or something and that would just get really confusing to try and figure out.
01-14-2012, 08:08 PM
Born during the night is feminine?
Praise the sun!
01-14-2012, 08:13 PM
Born during the night is feminine?
Praise the sun!That was the original idea which actually fits with various philosophies including but not limited to Chinese, Wiccan, and Pagan.
01-14-2012, 08:15 PM
I know, but it was too good to pass up.
01-14-2012, 09:07 PM
I think we should stick to the eight subraces I put out there, mostly because I was associating them with the sexuality rather than gender. Gender is great and all, but I wouldn't want to throw it into the mix at the moment.
That said, I think those eight give us a real good base for some fun. I've been looking up some basic dualities for men and women, but I must be off my game because I'm not really seeing much good. I also think that this race would be terribly interesting just for the cultural aspects of the race. I mean, think about it: six natural subraces, and two special ones, there is quite a bit of terribly natural diversity inherent right there. Notably, the subraces also correlate with the sexual aspects of the race, making them even more complex. So much opportunity for fun.
01-14-2012, 09:35 PM
I think we should stick to the eight subraces I put out there, mostly because I was associating them with the sexuality rather than gender. Gender is great and all, but I wouldn't want to throw it into the mix at the moment.I think you have Gender and Sexuality confused. Gender is male/female, Sexuality is Gay/Straight
That said, I think those eight give us a real good base for some fun. I've been looking up some basic dualities for men and women, but I must be off my game because I'm not really seeing much good.Well what have you come up with so far? Off the top of my head I can think of: Fire/Water, Power/Love, Logic/Emotion, Structure/Creativity, Autonomy/Connection, Focus/Reflection....you're right this is hard.
I also think that this race would be terribly interesting just for the cultural aspects of the race. I mean, think about it: six natural subraces, and two special ones, there is quite a bit of terribly natural diversity inherent right there. Notably, the subraces also correlate with the sexual aspects of the race, making them even more complex. So much opportunity for fun.Exactly, think of how complex we've managed to become with 2 genders and just imagine how much more complex 8 would be, just in terms of social interactions.
01-14-2012, 11:54 PM
Maybe just start with a list of contrasts. Just off the top of my head:
So perhaps Night sorts (Dusks, Nights, and especially the midnights) are much more trickery-oriented sorts, while the Days (Dawns, Days, and Noons) are really quite straightforward and open. Days are active, Nights tend to be more introspective. Day is the proud paladin with sword, shield, and courage, and Night is the rogue with poisons and honeyed words.
01-15-2012, 12:10 AM
I think you have Gender and Sexuality confused. Gender is male/female, Sexuality is Gay/Straight
You both do. Sex is male/female, gender is masculine/feminine
01-15-2012, 02:42 AM
Yeah, gender is what the person themselves identifies with. Sex is what they are biologically. But, this is further confused by the fact that it is common practice nowadays to use the word gender to refer to the actual biological sex of the person, which makes the whole argument awkward. I propose from this point on that we go with the generally accepted colloquialisms of gender referring to the identity of a person and sexuality as referring to the biological form of the person. That's what I'll be doing anyway.
I know I've seen some lists of basic dualities divided among sexual lines, but I'm not sure where I saw it. I'll need to go through my resources and see if it was in a book.
As for these, Sun/Moon is obviously in, since we're using it as the basis of the race. Light/Dark also seems to be pretty related. Fire/Water is another one that makes sense, but what about Air/Earth? Generally Air and Fire tended to be grouped together, as well as Earth and Water, but what do we want to do?
The others you gave seem like they might work, if we play with them a bit. They're certainly good for getting my brain started.
01-15-2012, 07:36 AM
I propose from this point on that we go with the generally accepted colloquialisms of gender referring to the identity of a person and sexuality as referring to the biological form of the person.I guess that works but I still say that for the purposes of this discussion we leave the question of how a person identifies themselves (i.e. Male-identifying-as-Female, Female-identifying-as-Male, etc) up to the player and focus on the biological aspect.
You bring up a valid point of how to split earth/air. If we assume that Male=Light/Sun/Fire and Female=Dark/Moon/Water, then I would actually group Earth with Male and Air with Female since to me Earth is a very masculine element.
01-15-2012, 07:43 AM
The problem there is two fold
1: 'mother earth' because earth is feminine.
2: earth doesn't burn, you smother fire with earth. Male = fire and air.
Female|Paragon|Night (Zenith, solstice)
Male|Paragon|Day (Zenith, solstice)
Female|Masculine|Lunar Eclipse/time after sunset while still light outside
Basic idea, yes?
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