Concentrating on making saves - PEACH
The idea of having some things that martials could concentrate on was brought up on the 5e boards, and as I was throwing out ideas, I hit one I really like. This may be completely unbalanced, so if I'm crazy, hopefully, someone will let me know. That said, here is the rule, in spoilers to set it off from anything else:
Spoiler: Concentration Abilities
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Concentration Abilities
While concentration is most commonly associated with casters and spells, this optional rule expands the scope of concentration to allow for more choices. Any character can use any of these abilities, although the standard of only being able to concentrate on a single thing at a time still applies. To use one of the following abilities, the player uses a bonus action to start concentrating. The player can drop concentration at any time, and standard rules for concentration checks apply.
- Clench Muscles - the PC keeps their muscles tight, preparing for an incoming blow. While concentrating on this, the character has advantage on STR saves
- Balls of Feet - the PC is ready for anything, moving on the balls of their feet and ready to evade. While concentrating, the character has advantage on DEX saves
- Breath Control - the PC breathes evenly and steadily, keeping their body oxygenated and increasing its ability to fight off assaults on their health. While concentrating, the character has advantage on CON saves
- Mental Focus - the PC keeps their mind alert by focusing on quantifiable things in their environment. While concentrating, the character has advantage on INT saves
- Awareness - the PC takes in everything around them, from ambient sounds and smells to the moods of those around them. While concentrating, the character has advantage on WIS saves
- Camaraderie - the PC focuses on reading the people around them to better understand them and how they will react to things, which helps with getting those people to follow the character. While concentrating, the character has advantage on CHA saves
- Watchful Eye - the PC focuses on sensing anything out of the ordinary. While concentrating, the character has advantage on perception checks
One of those things is not like the others, but that's because I am not sure exactly where to go. Is advantage on saves enough for concentration, too much, or too little? Should they cover associated ability checks as well, or should a specific ability be separated out like I have with perception? I separated there because that's my inclination, but is it underpowered?
I would expect that anyone that is not concentrating on something else would end up concentrating on one of these, since I can't think of much of a reason not to do so. That means I don't have to entice people to do them, but I want them to be worthwhile. I want it to be a question for a warlock to keep Hex up or switch to advantage on saving something, or whether a wizard should stop focusing on bonuses to saves to cast spider climb. Ideally, it would make a caster think twice about casting a concentration spell, although I wouldn't want it to be powerful enough to make it better than the spell more than 10-20% of the time.
Re: Concentrating on making saves - PEACH
I like this but I wonder if you couldn't make it more class specific and incorporate a more active component. Before the examples I'd say Ranger and Paladin have spells to concentrate on so it's unnecessary and it is incompatible with Barbarians core feature, so I'd leave them out.
Fighter level 7 Feature.
Warrior Arts. At the start of your turn you can focus on offense or defense, this requires Concentration as described on page XX. The benefits for each are as follows:
Offense. While you maintain concentration you can add half your proficiency bonus (rounded down) to the damage of your first successful attack each turn. When you make an attack roll and miss, you can end your concentration to reroll the attack and choose the result you prefer.
Defense. While you maintain concentration you can add half your proficiency bonus rounded down to saving throws. When you take damage you can end your concentration to reduce the damage by one roll of your Hit Die.
You can use this feature once and regain its use when you complete a short or long rest or use your Action Surge.
Monk Level 1 feature.
Esoterica. At the start of your turn you can focus on your internal balance or external senses, this requires Concentration as described on page XX. The benefits are as follows:
Internal Balance. While you maintain Concentration you have advantage on Constitution and Wisdom Saving Throws.
When you hit with an unarmed strike you can end your Concentration to deal additional damage equal to 1 roll of your Martial Arts die.
External Senses. While you maintain Concentration you have Tremorsense out to 30 ft. You can end your Concentration to gain Blindsense out to 30ft until the end of your next turn.
You can use this feature once and regain its use when you finish a short or long rest or expend 1 or more points of Ki to fuel your other Monk features.
Rogue Level 5 feature
Subtle Arts. At the start of your turn you can focus on your ability to suppress your presence or capacity for problem solving, this requires Concentration as described on page XX. The benefits are as follows:
Suppress Presence. While you maintain Concentration creatures you choose have disadvantage on Wisdom Tests to see you. You can end your Concentration to reroll a Stealth Test but must use the new roll.
Problem Solving. While you maintain Concentration you have advantage on tests to notice and disarm traps, pick locks, or Intelligence Tests to complete puzzles. You can end your Concentration to reroll any test to which your Concentration applied but must use the new roll.
You can use this feature once and regain its use when you complete a short or long rest or deal Sneak Attack damage to a hostile creature.
Re: Concentrating on making saves - PEACH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BerzerkerUnit
I like this but I wonder if you couldn't make it more class specific and incorporate a more active component. Before the examples I'd say Ranger and Paladin have spells to concentrate on so it's unnecessary and it is incompatible with Barbarians core feature, so I'd leave them out.
Fighter level 7 Feature.
Warrior Arts. At the start of your turn you can focus on offense or defense, this requires Concentration as described on page XX. The benefits for each are as follows:
Offense. While you maintain concentration you can add half your proficiency bonus (rounded down) to the damage of your first successful attack each turn. When you make an attack roll and miss, you can end your concentration to reroll the attack and choose the result you prefer.
Defense. While you maintain concentration you can add half your proficiency bonus rounded down to saving throws. When you take damage you can end your concentration to reduce the damage by one roll of your Hit Die.
You can use this feature once and regain its use when you complete a short or long rest or use your Action Surge.
Monk Level 1 feature.
Esoterica. At the start of your turn you can focus on your internal balance or external senses, this requires Concentration as described on page XX. The benefits are as follows:
Internal Balance. While you maintain Concentration you have advantage on Constitution and Wisdom Saving Throws.
When you hit with an unarmed strike you can end your Concentration to deal additional damage equal to 1 roll of your Martial Arts die.
External Senses. While you maintain Concentration you have Tremorsense out to 30 ft. You can end your Concentration to gain Blindsense out to 30ft until the end of your next turn.
You can use this feature once and regain its use when you finish a short or long rest or expend 1 or more points of Ki to fuel your other Monk features.
Rogue Level 5 feature
Subtle Arts. At the start of your turn you can focus on your ability to suppress your presence or capacity for problem solving, this requires Concentration as described on page XX. The benefits are as follows:
Suppress Presence. While you maintain Concentration creatures you choose have disadvantage on Wisdom Tests to see you. You can end your Concentration to reroll a Stealth Test but must use the new roll.
Problem Solving. While you maintain Concentration you have advantage on tests to notice and disarm traps, pick locks, or Intelligence Tests to complete puzzles. You can end your Concentration to reroll any test to which your Concentration applied but must use the new roll.
You can use this feature once and regain its use when you complete a short or long rest or deal Sneak Attack damage to a hostile creature.
I like those as features, and I could certainly see implementing some of them, particularly the one for rogues. The warrior one I would tweak just a touch and allow them to concentrate on different fighting styles, I think. Say you normally have dueling as a sword and board type - you could focus temporarily on switching up your fighting style to a different one like protection if you need to.
Re: Concentrating on making saves - PEACH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Darth Credence
I like those as features, and I could certainly see implementing some of them, particularly the one for rogues. The warrior one I would tweak just a touch and allow them to concentrate on different fighting styles, I think. Say you normally have dueling as a sword and board type - you could focus temporarily on switching up your fighting style to a different one like protection if you need to.
Also a great idea because it gives you a more active widget to work with.
Re: Concentrating on making saves - PEACH
I really like giving this to Fighters and Monks. Of the martials and half-casters, they are by far the most "disciplined" ones from a martial training standpoint (plus I guess Paladins, but they're more devoted to their faith than their martial training IMO).
I like how this reflects a certain caliber of battle readiness and hardened reflexes, while also giving Fighters and Monks more flexibility and the ability to react/predict enemies' magical attacks (Fighting a dragon? Get ready to make DEX saves!)
I think a flat advantage to each attribute's saving throw is a little bland, and also might compete with too many other features (Barbarian's Danger Sense, Gnomes' mental saving throw bonuses, Rogues' Evasion, Warcaster feat...). I wish I could give you a better suggestion but I don't have much.
The Perception checks thing feels the most promising. I like the idea that Fighters (and Monks) would be better at "picking out" sounds in the chaos of battle. Perception on its own is a little weak, but maybe you could extend it to Insight, Investigation...and maybe there's another usage in there somewhere.
Finally, I think one thing to consider is that these could potentially compete with Concentration in half-casters, if you opened the option up to any martial class. That's a whole other can of worms, but could lead to some interesting tradeoff decisions.
Re: Concentrating on making saves - PEACH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ionathus
I really like giving this to Fighters and Monks. Of the martials and half-casters, they are by far the most "disciplined" ones from a martial training standpoint (plus I guess Paladins, but they're more devoted to their faith than their martial training IMO).
I like how this reflects a certain caliber of battle readiness and hardened reflexes, while also giving Fighters and Monks more flexibility and the ability to react/predict enemies' magical attacks (Fighting a dragon? Get ready to make DEX saves!)
I think a flat advantage to each attribute's saving throw is a little bland, and also might compete with too many other features (Barbarian's Danger Sense, Gnomes' mental saving throw bonuses, Rogues' Evasion, Warcaster feat...). I wish I could give you a better suggestion but I don't have much.
The Perception checks thing feels the most promising. I like the idea that Fighters (and Monks) would be better at "picking out" sounds in the chaos of battle. Perception on its own is a little weak, but maybe you could extend it to Insight, Investigation...and maybe there's another usage in there somewhere.
Finally, I think one thing to consider is that these could potentially compete with Concentration in half-casters, if you opened the option up to any martial class. That's a whole other can of worms, but could lead to some interesting tradeoff decisions.
I agree with the advantage being a little bit weak - there are other ways to get advantage which would make this not worthwhile, and it is kind of bland. But I don't know that a simple +3 or whatever to the rolls is any less bland. That's one of the things I like the most about the idea of allowing someone to concentrate for a fighting stance - it is just more interesting to me. I'm just not sure how to make the rest of them more interesting. I think I'll review some of the other traits you mention to see how they would interact and see if it makes anything click.
Ideally, I would love it if these would compete for concentration for some characters. I wouldn't expect it to make a wizard drop a concentration spell for it, but if it was at a point where a warlock would be tempted to drop concentrating on Hex, for example, then I think that would be a good place to shoot for.
