My Weird Warlock Fix...

So, I play with a group that largely never uses Short Rests and as such it is rare for any of us to play warlocks. Also because of coffeelocks, one of our DMs banned the warlock/sorcerer subclass (despite the fact that we never take enough short rests .

Thus, I came up with a little fix that might help resolve things (that I might consider allowing for a future game I'm DMing).

Simply make Warlock spell slots come back on a Long Rest, and double the amount of spell slots a Warlock would have.

Then perhaps give the Warlocks their expanded spell lists a voila.

So... What do you all think? Do these changes seem reasonable?

The usual suggestion is tripling them. Is it a good "fix"? IDK it depends a lot on how many combats you usually face and how long they are.

Well...that'd work, I guess. Idk. Hard to say without seeing/knowing how many fights you're having per rest, how difficult the encounters are, etc etc etc. My sense though is that it would keep warlocks exactly where they already are; starved for spell slots and pretty underpowered.

If you're looking to experiment in your own game (as opposed to selling another DM on something), I'd probably think a little bigger. Something like keeping their SR casting as it is, but also giving them LR 1/2 casting progression so they can get some utility and defense.

Have you tried either of the resting alternatives? Both variants should increase the number of short rests taken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sorinth

Have you tried either of the resting alternatives? Both variants should increase the number of short rests taken.

---

On this note, I'm planning on doing 5 minutes for a short rest, 24 hours for a long rest for my upcoming game. The game is going to quite attritive, so the idea is if LR are hard to come by and SR are essentially free, the SR classes will actually function in a way that's more in line with (what I think) is their base conception.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by werescythe

Simply make Warlock spell slots come back on a Long Rest, and double the amount of spell slots a Warlock would have.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukelnikov

The usual suggestion is tripling them.

---

I go with 2.5x the resource when exchanging short rest recharge for long rest. Works pretty well for warlocks, monks, etc.
In some circumstances like fighter second wind or cleric channel you can swap over to [Prof bonus] times per long rest and it works well enough.

I've used two house rules that worked well for short-rest/long-rest balance.

1. Double all short rest abilities, and let them have the original amount back on a short rest once per day.

2. Let everyone take a short rest whenever they want outside of combat up to twice per long rest. No time limits, and everyone takes them on their own. So there's no "should we rest here?" discussions. If someone needs some resources back, they just state, "I'm using one of my rests." This is my favorite solution.

Just make them a standard full caster and partially "remove" Mystic Arcanum. MA is in there just to give Warlocks access to their 6th to 9th level spells in addition to their scaling 1st to 5th level spells.
Instead, you could give the warlock a number of additional spells known for each Mystic Arcanum they would have.

Let's not break the "balance" and make sorcerers any "better" than they already are, and keep them being shafted in regards to their spells known.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rukelnikov

The usual suggestion is tripling them.

---

I didn't know that, but that sounds good to me. Doubling them is not enough for a standard adventuring day.

Alternatively, have warlock slots recharge in one minute (so you can use them each combat). They are probably intended as "encounter powers" so just codify them as such (this assumes that you ban coffeelock, of course).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurald Galain

I didn't know that, but that sounds good to me. Doubling them is not enough for a standard adventuring day.

Alternatively, have warlock slots recharge in one minute (so you can use them each combat). They are probably intended as "encounter powers" so just codify them as such (this assumes that you ban coffeelock, of course).

---

The best solution, or at least the one that most approximates their expected output on a table with no short rests, is probably to give them a 2/LR ability of recharging their slots with a 1-minute ritual.

If tracking 2/LR is considered too complicated for any reason, double their slots and let them recover half once per long rest.

This second method can also be used for tables where the average SR/LR is 1. Keep the ability as is, but double their slots and let them recover half on a short rest. It's slightly less predictable (sometimes there will be 2 SRs, sometimes 0) but some people might consider that a good thing.

Oh, and either bring their 3rd slot down to 9th level, or at least give them a Rod of the Pact Keeper. 11th level was a mistake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diplomancer

The best solution, or at least the one that most approximates their expected output on a table with no short rests, is probably to give them a 2/LR ability of recharging their slots with a 1-minute ritual.

---

Yup. This pretty much works for any SR ability, leaving an actual SR for Hit Point recovery.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skrum

On this note, I'm planning on doing 5 minutes for a short rest, 24 hours for a long rest for my upcoming game. The game is going to quite attritive, so the idea is if LR are hard to come by and SR are essentially free, the SR classes will actually function in a way that's more in line with (what I think) is their base conception.

---

Something along these lines is probably a better solution than fiddling with Warlock directly.

It's always strange to me that people struggle with Warlock, except that I constantly hear people talk about tables just ignoring short rests entirely and then it makes more sense. My DM runs something along the lines of gritty resting: short rests take roughly a day, and they tend to be risky unless circumstances are relatively secure (usually that manifests as harsh penalties to random encounter generation). Long rests almost never happen, and they usually represent a narrative week or so, which is an eternity given a lot of our adventures are on some sort of time crunch. Magic items along the lines of Pearl of Power tend to be nerfed to match this cadence, and then there are usually opportunities to manage hit point attrition with things like medical supplies, blessings, and so forth. The main consequence of all of this is that the power to call for rests is much more in the hands of the DM, so players can't do things like use Leomund's Tiny Hut to force long rests.

Given this balance, we tend to get a lot more short rests relative to long rests than most of the D&D community seems to--I think the current adventure is on its second short rest, with a dragon fight to kick off its ninth session next week, and we're doing good on HP but man are the casters almost tapped for slots. There might be a chance for another long rest at a nearby oasis, but we don't know for sure.

In this situation my Warlock is honestly thriving, despite this being a T2 adventure which tends to be the level range in which people think Warlock is weakest. I'm on Marid Genielock with Agonizing/Repelling Blast, so my round-by-round damage is more than fine. (Never discount Repelling Blast as a way to make casting Eldritch Blast more engaging! Even when things like environmental hazards or AOE spells aren't a factor, having ways to reposition your enemies into more convenient locations is useful and a lot of fun.) Beyond that I have a chain familiar (I use a pseudodragon for story reasons + I like the blindsight, but imp is the most popular), at-will Silent Image and Disguise Self for shenanigans, and other miscellaneous stuff like some magic items. My spell slots tend to go for Blight, Counterspell, or Dispel Magic for power plays, Fog Cloud or Sleet Storm to mess with vision when it's helpful, or Create Food and Water to prevent starvation.

But back to resting: if you are a DM or player at a table similar to the original post, where long rests are frequent enough to make short rests obsolete, of course you're going to induce some class imbalance. Warlocks are only the most obvious casualty--the already-beleaguered Monk players are also going to have a bad time, and the Fighters are going to appreciate a chance to use their d10 hit dice and re-up Second Wind and Action Surge. Barbarians probably would also feel the same way if there were a way to get rage back on a short rest, but alas. (At least they're rolling d12s.) Wild Shape and Channel Divinity are also really useful abilities tied to short rests. On the flip side, there is basically no reason for the full casters and paladins to not nova their way through most encounters.

Nerfing long rest duration is likely the answer to a lot of the difference between the way the game seems designed and the way people actually play it.

For long rest spell slot recover for a Warlock, I would break the pact magic into 2 groups, lesser and greater pact magic. By level 20 you will have 10 lesser spell slots that have a spell slot level of 3rd and 5 greater spell slots the have a spell slot level of 5th level. The total amount of spell slots that you will have is 15 which is equal to any half caster class. Mystic Arcanum will use greater pact magic spell slots.

There will also be an invocation that will allow you to recover 2 lesser pact magic spell slots or 1 greater pact magic spell slot, after a short rest

Take more short rests?

Your DM could always take a page from 4th edition, and make short rest abilities immediately refresh after an encounter ends. The idea is that if you're not still in initiative, then you have enough time to catch your breath.

Makes a Warlock into a caster that has fewer spellslots to burn within any particular combat but can cast their pact spells all day.

It's effectively what you get if you're playing with a DM who is permissive with short rests, which I would argue is what a Warlock is actually tuned for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skrum

On this note, I'm planning on doing 5 minutes for a short rest, 24 hours for a long rest for my upcoming game. The game is going to quite attritive, so the idea is if LR are hard to come by and SR are essentially free, the SR classes will actually function in a way that's more in line with (what I think) is their base conception.

---

As a DM who continually struggles to reconcile how Long and Short rests are supposed to happen (in terms of game/class balance) vs how they always end up actually working during the campaign, I like this idea a lot. Its kind of the BG3 model where a SR is something you can take instantly and at almost any time you aren't in immediate peril, whereas taking a Long Rest is actually a big deal that consumes resources and involves actual down-time.

I suppose the counter argument is: if the party beds down for the night, its not a long rest? The response to which, I suppose, is: the SR/LR mechanic really only holds when the party is *adventuring* and in the dungeon or otherwise on high-alert.

If they're spending 2 weeks getting from one place to another, perhaps suffering the occasional wandering monster but that's it, then who cares? They're long-resting every night because its fine. But if the caravan is raided by bandits (big fight + short rest), the party tracks the bandits back to their lair to recover the Maguffin or hostages or something and has a couple battles against bandit scouts and a wandering bear along the way (a few smaller fights, then short rest), then the party finds the bandit camp and raids them back (big fight) and discovers the entrance to a ruined temple in the back of the camp (possible long rest before investigating?), then the cadence and circumstances are totally different and the Long Rest/Short Rest system comes into play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobthewizard

2. Let everyone take a short rest whenever they want outside of combat up to twice per long rest. No time limits, and everyone takes them on their own. So there's no "should we rest here?" discussions. If someone needs some resources back, they just state, "I'm using one of my rests." This is my favorite solution.

---

I really like this, especially the fact that the entire party doesn't need to do it at the same time. I might say it represents a minute of "catching your breath and adjusting your equipment", but nothing short of actual combat or an immediate chase scene would interfere with it.

I feel like a lot of tables would enjoy the Epic Heroism resting rules but are either turned off because they think it's too powerful a boost. But then they end up doing a 5min adventuring day which is even more powerful then EH resting.

And for sure taking just the EP rules for short rests but then leaving LR alone works just as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kvess

Your DM could always take a page from 4th edition, and make short rest abilities immediately refresh after an encounter ends. The idea is that if you're not still in initiative, then you have enough time to catch your breath.

Makes a Warlock into a caster that has fewer spellslots to burn within any particular combat but can cast their pact spells all day.

It's effectively what you get if you're playing with a DM who is permissive with short rests, which I would argue is what a Warlock is actually tuned for.

---

Um, the fourth edition rule was that it took 5 minutes of rest to encounter powers.