Not sure what to bring to this party

Hey guys after wracking my brain for about a week now I’ve finally decided to come to embrace the wisdom of the internet for help.

At last week’s session my paladin was disintegrated by a beholder and resurrection seems highly unlikely as our cleric only shows up for maybe 25% of our games and, well there wasn’t exactly a body left and nobody gathered any ash.

I’m really not sure what to build going forward. Our regular group consists of two rangers both bow users, a wild magic sorcerer, an arcane trickster rogue, and two warlocks both blasters. So we need some sort of frontline I think or support. I’ve been trying to get the two in one nice package without playing a paladin again, but so far I’ve not landed on anything that really clicks.

We’re level 9, point buy for stats, anything published is fair game as is some UA and homebrew pending DM approval. What I’ve been looking at and toying with is below.

Ranger/cleric-I’m just iffy on what domain to use.
Swords or Valor bard-I worry swords is too squishy minus shields or heavy armor and valor just seems so dull.
Straight cleric-again unsure of domain.

Don’t feel constrained by the above though, I’m open to all sorts of ideas.

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Originally Posted by CeriPendragon

So we need some sort of frontline I think or support.

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Shepherd druid gets you both, and adds a large tool box that it would seem the party could use as well.

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Originally Posted by hymer

Shepherd druid gets you both, and adds a large tool box that it would seem the party could use as well.

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This is good advice, although with 7 players a shepherd druid will bog down combat with summons. You could Also look at a Moon Druid, especially since you are 1 level away from getting elemental forms. Or a Circle of Spores Druid could be very interesting if you are less inclined to worry about wildshaping.

As for cleric builds, you have two options
1) Tempest with sword and board for a more blasty option that can do more damage.
2) Forge Cleric. At level 9 you should have Full Plate and a Shield for a Minimum of 21 AC (22 if you apply the +1 to your armor). If you want to really go nuts, drop 1 level into Sorcerer or Wizard for Shield and Absorb Elements. Divine Soul Sorcerer would give you a 1/rest 2d4 to a save or attack, Shadow Sorcerer Gives darkvision and possible not dying, Storm Sorcerer gives you 4 languages and bonus action AoO free 10ft of flight when casting a spell. Wizard gives access to all the first level rituals (familiar). You can also consider going to Cleric 7/Wizard 2 is you want the War Wizard reactions (or Cleric 8/Wizard 1 and take the next level in War Wizard if you want the ASI sooner).

You can get as high of AC as possible and spiritual guardians will be your best friend (especially with the slowed movements and the warlocks that should be able to push them back into AoE).


If it were me I would probably go Hill Dwarf Forge Cleric 8/Wizard 1 for extra Con, Extra HP. Then point buy to
Str 8
Dex 8
Con 15 (+2) = 17
Int 15
Wis 15 (+1) = 16
Cha 8

level 4 +2 Wisdom
Level 8 you take resilient Con
Final Stats
Str 8
Dex 8
Con 18
Int 15
Wis 18
Cha 8

Your main attack is Toll the Dead/Sacred Flame/Word of Radiance, so you don't bother with a weapon in your hand. You have proficiency in Wisdom, Constitution and Charisma Saves. You have rituals from 2 classes, you have a boatload of utility cantrips. You get 22 AC on a normal day, 24 with shield of faith, 26 with Shield reaction spell, or 28 with Shield of Faith and shield reaction spell. All of this without a single magic item.

If you want it to another ASI you can take MI: Druid for Thorn Whip (drag people back into spiritual guardians), Shillelagh (have a melee attack finally), and Longstrider.

Have you considered Barbarian? It is the class with the most pure tank, and some of the subclasses also have some ribbons or secondary abilities that actually allow them to support somewhat.

Zealot barbarian will let you tank for the party and fight to the death again and again without costing the party anything.

Thanks everyone! I always seem to forget about druid and barbarian and I haven't played either before so its worth looking into.

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Originally Posted by CeriPendragon

Thanks everyone! I always seem to forget about druid and barbarian and I haven't played either before so its worth looking into.

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Embrace your inner Barbarian. :)

Which oath did you have? This party is kind of making me think you should have an Oath of Conquest Paladin. You've got a lot of backliners, and having someone who can stop people from getting to them seems valuable. You get to combine frontline protection and battlefield control in one excellent package. And you're conveniently past the level 1-6 period where it feels identical to every other paladin, too.

I vote Conquest Paladin too. Fallen Aasimar if you can.

barbarian, all day.

bearbarian if you want to just live as long as possible, ancestral guardian is an excellent tank.

given how much ranged/casters you have, and the intermitant cleric my vote goes to mountain dwarf ancestral guardian, medium armour and shield.

go with 15 14 15 10 8 8

for 17 14 17 10 8 8

you have 2 ASI's. one of which brings you to 18 14 18 10 8 8 and the second for a Feat.

alternatively, you could play a rock gnome ancestral guardian, you will have a lower str dex con, but advantage on wis int cha saves for a barbarian? awesome! especially if your never using heavy weapons.

the goal here isnt highest DPR, its putting yourself in the way so its more costly to attack your allies, id go with sentinel.

Path of the Ancestral Guardian Barbarian. All the tough face-smashi-ness of a standard Barbarian, plus solid party-protection abilities.

If homebrew is what you're after, there are some good options in my Guide to Greatness.

• The Magewright (my version of the Artificer) has a pretty tanky subclass in the Rune Warrior. Your base class features let you hand out magic items to the rest of the party, and the subclass gets you heavy armor, +1 AC, Extra Attack, and a reaction to add 1d4 to your AC against an attack that negates twice that much damage if it still hits.
• The Steelsown (my arcane half-caster) is sort of a defensive version of a Paladin-- instead of Smites, they get extra-strength personal buffs. The Shieldbearer subclass adds even more defensive abilities, and lets you share them with allies.
• The Summoner is a pet class with a strong (but, you know, ultimately disposable) summoned minion. Lots of different options for what you summon and how you use them, but the right choices can be pretty tanky.
• The Iron Hand Monk doesn't have a ton of support abilities, but as an armor-and-shield-wearing Str Monk, they're a pretty interesting tank option. (You can knock people across the battlefield like pinballs, which is always fun.)
• The Titan Blooded Sorcerer is reasonably tanky, and can become very much so if you focus your spells on that. You get medium armor, +1 HP/level, and bonus action weapon attacks after casting a Blade cantrip.
• The Dragon Warlock is pretty thematically redundant, admittedly, but it fills a very different role than blaster 'locks-- instead of Eldritch Blast, you get "Draconic Breath," an at-will AoE cantrip. New invocations let you drop some nasty debuffs on anyone you catch in it, and an unarmored AC of a flat 16 (18 at 10th level) lets you be fairly tanky at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant

Path of the Ancestral Guardian Barbarian. All the tough face-smashi-ness of a standard Barbarian, plus solid party-protection abilities.

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I disagree on the Ancestral Guardian recommendation.

The Ancestral Guardian really only has a feature if enemies are attacking people who are not him. AG is probably my favorite Barbarian subclass, but I'd only recommend it when you expect your allies to be taking hits more than you (trust me, I learned that from experience). Considering 86% of your team are ranged attackers, I'd say it's highly likely that OP is going to be the one that enemies are going to be targeting almost all of the time.

But we can work with that.

Play a build that punishes enemies for attacking you. This could be through excessive damage mitigation (Bear Barbarian), this could be a retaliation effect for attacking you (Tempest Cleric), or something to that effect. By increasing your survivability, one of two things will happen:

1. Enemies will focus on you, causing you to get more value out of your anti-death effects
2. Enemies will split off to focus on your allies, causing the enemies to lose turns (due to their inferior range) and to spread damage evenly across the team (meaning everyone lives longer).

Focus on the tankiest builds possible. You'll need it.

A few examples, ordered in terms of complexity:

• SIMPLE
• Totem Barbarian-Bear
• Eldritch Knight
• Long Death Monk
• Ancients Paladin
• Tempest Cleric
• Moon Druid
• COMPLEX

I believe that complexity is the most important aspect for determining how much fun you'll have playing a class. Barbarians are incredibly simple, but playing a Druid (especially a Moon Druid) is not. Some feel that overcomplicated classes get in the way of RP and playing the game, and others feel that they need a complicated class to feel challenged, so try to determine what you've played in the past and where they fit on this scale.

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Originally Posted by CeriPendragon

Hey guys after wracking my brain for about a week now I’ve finally decided to come to embrace the wisdom of the internet for help.

At last week’s session my paladin was disintegrated by a beholder and resurrection seems highly unlikely as our cleric only shows up for maybe 25% of our games and, well there wasn’t exactly a body left and nobody gathered any ash.

I’m really not sure what to build going forward. Our regular group consists of two rangers both bow users, a wild magic sorcerer, an arcane trickster rogue, and two warlocks both blasters. So we need some sort of frontline I think or support. I’ve been trying to get the two in one nice package without playing a paladin again, but so far I’ve not landed on anything that really clicks.

We’re level 9, point buy for stats, anything published is fair game as is some UA and homebrew pending DM approval. What I’ve been looking at and toying with is below.

Ranger/cleric-I’m just iffy on what domain to use.
Swords or Valor bard-I worry swords is too squishy minus shields or heavy armor and valor just seems so dull.
Straight cleric-again unsure of domain.

Don’t feel constrained by the above though, I’m open to all sorts of ideas.

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Sounds like you need a cleric ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CeriPendragon

Thanks everyone! I always seem to forget about druid and barbarian and I haven't played either before so its worth looking into.

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Druid 8/Barb 1, or Druid 6/Barb 3 for proper tankage. :)

What about the new Artificer Battlesmith? That would allow you to tank and support and it would give you an animal friend to tank with you.

I almost always vote Barbarian, but if UA is on the table an Battle Smith/Eldritch Knight is what I'd go for for a great frontliner with good support.

Wow okay, this really took off while I was at the office!

I’ll try to address everything as best I can. I was an Ancients paladin last character. Oath of Conquest has interested me for awhile now I’m just not sure how to play it without being a massive jerk about it. Any advice on that count?

The Eldritch Knight/Artificer recommendations do sound cool but I’m playing both of those in two other games I’m in as part of a rotation we have going.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CeriPendragon

Wow okay, this really took off while I was at the office!

I’ll try to address everything as best I can. I was an Ancients paladin last character. Oath of Conquest has interested me for awhile now I’m just not sure how to play it without being a massive jerk about it. Any advice on that count?

The Eldritch Knight/Artificer recommendations do sound cool but I’m playing both of those in two other games I’m in as part of a rotation we have going.

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For the Conquest Paladin, I actually made a thread a while back on learning how to be a good guy.

So far, my favorite two concepts are:

• You were evil, turned good by being subject to the torment you afflicted upon others. Evil is only evil, because it doesn't understand how terrible it truly is. Now you give evil the same treatment, in an attempt to show them the error of their ways.
• Oppression is better than death. You afflict fear upon your foes, not out of bloodlust, but as a last attempt to spare them their lives. Perhaps they'll change their ways when they have time to stare death in the eye.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CeriPendragon

Oath of Conquest has interested me for awhile now I’m just not sure how to play it without being a massive jerk about it. Any advice on that count?

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https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b3/68...a70d7ecb7d.jpg
After all, the forces of evil are a cowardly and superstitious lot...

As per my usual schtick - in these situations i DIE to roll a Bear Totem Barbarian that's Variant Human (ESPECIALLY if you're starting at lvl 8+)

Check this out, I'm trademarking this build:

KING LEONIDAS BUILD

Variant Human Barbarian.
Str - 15 +1 = 16
Dex - 14
Con - 15 +1 = 16
Int - 8
Wis - 10
Cha - 8

Feat: Polearm Master

1st ASI - Feat Sentinel

2nd ASI - Feat Mage Slayer


How to:

Use a Spear + Shield.

Defensively:
Your AC is 17
50% damage taken from all sources but Psychic
Huge HP pool

Offensively:
You take 3 attacks b/c of Polearm master, dealing solid damage (Because you'll have your rage bonus). You also have SEVERAL means to use a Reaction-Attack after your turn (Via PAM, Mageslayer, and Sentinel)

Tank:
Between Sentinel, Mage Slayer, you're the ultimate tank.

Non Casters - They do very little damage to your massive HP pool, and they cant disengage. If they try to run, you knock their movement to 0 with your reaction strike.

Casters - Cant disengage. You knock their movement to 0 if they try to run. Your hits give them DISADV on Con saves for Concentration (So many of their spells you will knock off easily). If they try to cast, you take a reaction smack at them. And you get Adv on Saving throws if they cast at you.





Basically, you're getting 4 strikes per round (which is crazy good for a Barb), you're VERY sticky, and you're probably the best SINGLE TARGET tank in the game. Your subsequent ASI's go into Strength or something for Saving Throws (Resilient - Wisdom?), and you become a HEAVY damage dealer AND a Tank of EPIC proportions.

So, essentially, YOU ARE KING LEONIDAS!

Have you considered abandoning melee entirely?

I think going back in with a frontliner is a miscalculation, go with another ranged option, and some stealth. Use medium ranged traps or magical effects to channel the enemies. With your description of party set up, a single tank isn't likely to be able to absorb enough damage, especially without a consistent cleric.

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Originally Posted by ErdrickOfAliaha

Have you considered abandoning melee entirely?

I think going back in with a frontliner is a miscalculation, go with another ranged option, and some stealth. Use medium ranged traps or magical effects to channel the enemies. With your description of party set up, a single tank isn't likely to be able to absorb enough damage, especially without a consistent cleric.

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I'd probably say that specialization is better for individuals, but less so for parties.

A party wants an answer to every question. Because it only takes you to not be able to answer a question once for everything to end in failure.