Invincible Season 2 - now with blood splatters!

I just finished season 2 of Invincible and on the whole, I quite enjoyed it! Basically everyone in the cast gets more development, though some stories (Eve learning about zoning laws and building codes) were more compelling than others (Robot going "let me fix ur powers" and Monster Girl saying "no" all season).

Spoiler: season end

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I really like the direction they went with Mark and Amber. They really, really, really tried to make it work. But at the end of the day, the conclusion they reach works for their characters. She's just too fragile to be around him at a time where he's the fixation of all of Viltrum.

Angstrom Levy...I don't know how they handled him in the comics, but in this show he felt like a lot of wasted potential. I loved the idea of a "pacifist planeswalker" who sees how much damage Mark & Nolan do in most universes and concludes that he can't be trusted, even in this one. And his powers would make him hard to pin down, turning him into an enemy with unique motivations that Mark has to reconcile with, and unique defenses that Mark can't punch. But even with him going crazy from the experiment, the end result where he threatens Mark's mom and half-brother is just...boring. Played out. He's just yet another super-being who's jerking Mark around for capricious reasons. I would've loved some actual philosophy or ethics behind his actions, so him becoming Regular Crazy was pretty annoying.

That said, "I thought...I thought you were stronger." was a helluva line. That's a really good moment for Mark and it sets up a lot for the next season. However, just because I like the aftermath doesn't mean I like the actual storyline, and I wanted more out of Angstrom.

Final thought: they need fewer characters. As the cast balloons outward, there are some I want to follow and plenty that I don't really need more from. That wouldn't be a huge complaint if the release schedule was more consistent, but eight episodes every two years feels kind of thin, and it feels like they're trying to cover so much ground in their limited space. When I saw the late-season teasers of future arcs, especially the latest sequid attack in the astronaut's apartment, I think I said "oh come on, I'm sick of that, move on" out loud.

Don't know why they had a months-long gap between the two halves of the season, but I've heard the creator say the wait for season 3 will only be one year, so that made me happy.

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Originally Posted by Peelee

Don't know why they had a months-long gap between the two halves of the season, but I've heard the creator say the wait for season 3 will only be one year, so that made me happy.

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Thankfully I didn't experience too much of that extra bit of annoyance: I only went "oh yeah, there's more Invincible" about three weeks before part 2 came out, so I didn't have long to wait.

Still very annoying. I know that splitting the season is a fairly common (or at least not very rare) practice -- wasn't Breaking Bad season 5 that way?

I'm sure production schedules and publishing/advertising schedules are a giant mess for everyone involved, and I believe that the production team is doing their best. But releasing a season in two parts, months separated, makes for such a weird audience experience. Especially if the entire season is only 8 episodes, so your "part 1" is only 4 episodes.

Invincible feels like the worst offender for this but I've definitely had this experience several times recently. I would love it if we could just get the "arc" produced and released in one coherent piece, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Ionathus

Spoiler: season end

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That said, "I thought...I thought you were stronger." was a helluva line. That's a really good moment for Mark and it sets up a lot for the next season. However, just because I like the aftermath doesn't mean I like the actual storyline, and I wanted more out of Angstrom.

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Spoiler: Comic / Potential Future Season Spoilers

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If it means anything, if they stick to the comics he's not done for yet.

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Originally Posted by Ionathus

I just finished season 2 of Invincible and on the whole, I quite enjoyed it! Basically everyone in the cast gets more development, though some stories (Eve learning about zoning laws and building codes) were more compelling than others (Robot going "let me fix ur powers" and Monster Girl saying "no" all season).

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It's boring this season, but it does set up some character development later on, so at least it's not wholly wasted.

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Spoiler: season end

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I really like the direction they went with Mark and Amber. They really, really, really tried to make it work. But at the end of the day, the conclusion they reach works for their characters. She's just too fragile to be around him at a time where he's the fixation of all of Viltrum.

Angstrom Levy...I don't know how they handled him in the comics, but in this show he felt like a lot of wasted potential. I loved the idea of a "pacifist planeswalker" who sees how much damage Mark & Nolan do in most universes and concludes that he can't be trusted, even in this one. And his powers would make him hard to pin down, turning him into an enemy with unique motivations that Mark has to reconcile with, and unique defenses that Mark can't punch. But even with him going crazy from the experiment, the end result where he threatens Mark's mom and half-brother is just...boring. Played out. He's just yet another super-being who's jerking Mark around for capricious reasons. I would've loved some actual philosophy or ethics behind his actions, so him becoming Regular Crazy was pretty annoying.

That said, "I thought...I thought you were stronger." was a helluva line. That's a really good moment for Mark and it sets up a lot for the next season. However, just because I like the aftermath doesn't mean I like the actual storyline, and I wanted more out of Angstrom.

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The Amber transition from the comics fleshes her out as a person a bit more. In the comics, she's...less sympathetic. I'd say a net upgrade all in all, and it generally makes sense for a lot of reasons.

Angstrom is very true to his comics appearance. It's fair to say that there's some wasted potential there, as the pacifism would have been rather more interesting, perhaps, but yeah, the pacifist version of him sort of becomes overwhelmed at every version of himself crammed into one brain, which was always a bit dodgy of a plan. He's kind of a B tier villain for the series, so he doesn't get the focus of the big adversaries, but he's potentially more interesting than many. I have a soft spot for characters with powers more creative than flying bricks.

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Final thought: they need fewer characters. As the cast balloons outward, there are some I want to follow and plenty that I don't really need more from. That wouldn't be a huge complaint if the release schedule was more consistent, but eight episodes every two years feels kind of thin, and it feels like they're trying to cover so much ground in their limited space. When I saw the late-season teasers of future arcs, especially the latest sequid attack in the astronaut's apartment, I think I said "oh come on, I'm sick of that, move on" out loud.

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That's fair. There's some like the Lizard League that...are genuinely hard to remember and care about. I hope at least we get full season drops in the future, the mid season split made keeping track of everyone more difficult. I enjoy the show overall, but TV schedules and large casts are a challenge.

I thought it was good, even if the first 4 episodes did have a memeable amount of "People flying/walking/running sadly" montages. At least we got that ridiculous shot of Omni-man's cake while he was sad-flying through space.

I'm surprised they actually managed to somewhat redeem Amber in this season... The "I know you're Invincible" line from the first season turned her from a kinda annoying but understandably frustrated girlfriend (like in the comics) into a horribly selfish, petty and cruel person.

She's actually supportive of Mark this season!

I wish they hadn't spent so much time of such a short season on Mark's mother, though... I mean, she's not a bad character, but there is definitely more interesting stuff to show in an 8-episode season.

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Originally Posted by Lemmy

I'm surprised they actually managed to somewhat redeem Amber in this season... The "I know you're Invincible" line from the first season turned her from a kinda annoying but understandably frustrated girlfriend (like in the comics) into a horribly selfish, petty and cruel person.

She's actually supportive of Mark this season!

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Ooh boy, I know this is gonna be a spicy take but: I always liked Amber's season one "I knew all along/figured it out" twist. I thought it was a unique way to tackle the inevitable selfish flakiness of a superhero trying to live a normal life.

Because Mark lies a lot in that first season. And that's understandable given his life; it makes sense that you'd protect your secret identity. But I do believe that he's on the hook for the way he chose to handle it. He could have approached it in a more honest way, by not committing to a deep, dependable relationship. Instead of telling Amber upfront that he has a complicated family life with a lot of last-minute emergencies, not a lot of time for romance, and that he can't promise consistency, he tries to make it work anyway and just lie if he runs into problems. He makes commitments that he knows he won't be able to keep.

And in my opinion, that's an important lesson for ANY teenager to learn. Keeping your promises is a big part of growing up and developing responsibility. And if you can't keep your promises and you know that ahead of time, you shouldn't make them. That was what made Amber mad -- that Mark was trying to have it both ways and doing damage to their relationship, then thinking "I'm a superhero" is an excuse for not just being unreliable, but being unreliable in a dishonest, selfish way.

I really liked the moment where Mark said "okay, okay, here's the reason I've been so absent" and Amber said "cool motive, still unethical." I think their relationship in season 2 is a lot healthier, specifically because Mark is upfront with Amber and they talk about it more. It's not just that she "knows his secret" now -- it's that he's looping her in on his availability, and even taking her input and trying to make adjustments and commit to time that's purely hers.

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I wish they hadn't spent so much time of such a short season on Mark's mother, though... I mean, she's not a bad character, but there is definitely more interesting stuff to show in an 8-episode season.

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I also disagree on this point. I think giving us more of Debbie helped explore some pretty powerful moments of what it's like to be a "normal" dating a "super." And Debbie was also fantastic for helping unpack Nolan's deception and manipulation over all those years. Mark has other stuff to worry about at the same time, but Debbie honestly has more than enough material to chew through, just on the weight of Nolan's betrayal. That's one of the elements of the show that make Invincible unique, and I loved it. Wanted more of it, TBH.

Am I the only one disappointed in Season 2?

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Omniman seemingly turns on a dime with his allegiance.
Mark's discussion of nature vs nurture leads nowhere.
Debbie spent half a season dealing with the trauma, then immediately accepts Oliver? More believable would be her having a raging fit, maybe one that scared Oliver, only for her to then see reason.
The walking/flying sexual assault scenario Anissa frankly scares me about the future of the show.

It is fun and somewhat light entertainment, but nothing more, sadly. I expected much more philosophy, but then again I am loving Star Trek over Star Wars these days.

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Originally Posted by Ionathus

Ooh boy, I know this is gonna be a spicy take but: I always liked Amber's season one "I knew all along/figured it out" twist. I thought it was a unique way to tackle the inevitable selfish flakiness of a superhero trying to live a normal life.

Because Mark lies a lot in that first season. And that's understandable given his life; it makes sense that you'd protect your secret identity. But I do believe that he's on the hook for the way he chose to handle it. He could have approached it in a more honest way, by not committing to a deep, dependable relationship. Instead of telling Amber upfront that he has a complicated family life with a lot of last-minute emergencies, not a lot of time for romance, and that he can't promise consistency, he tries to make it work anyway and just lie if he runs into problems. He makes commitments that he knows he won't be able to keep.

And in my opinion, that's an important lesson for ANY teenager to learn. Keeping your promises is a big part of growing up and developing responsibility. And if you can't keep your promises and you know that ahead of time, you shouldn't make them. That was what made Amber mad -- that Mark was trying to have it both ways and doing damage to their relationship, then thinking "I'm a superhero" is an excuse for not just being unreliable, but being unreliable in a dishonest, selfish way.

I really liked the moment where Mark said "okay, okay, here's the reason I've been so absent" and Amber said "cool motive, still unethical." I think their relationship in season 2 is a lot healthier, specifically because Mark is upfront with Amber and they talk about it more. It's not just that she "knows his secret" now -- it's that he's looping her in on his availability, and even taking her input and trying to make adjustments and commit to time that's purely hers.



I also disagree on this point. I think giving us more of Debbie helped explore some pretty powerful moments of what it's like to be a "normal" dating a "super." And Debbie was also fantastic for helping unpack Nolan's deception and manipulation over all those years. Mark has other stuff to worry about at the same time, but Debbie honestly has more than enough material to chew through, just on the weight of Nolan's betrayal. That's one of the elements of the show that make Invincible unique, and I loved it. Wanted more of it, TBH.

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I agree with all od this.

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Originally Posted by Spore

Am I the only one disappointed in Season 2?

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Omniman seemingly turns on a dime with his allegiance.

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Spoiler: Omni-Man

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He turned last season when he flew away from killing Mark. He even contemplated and attempted suicide. If you don't like how abrupt it was, i can get that, but that happened two years ago.

Also, i loved Donald in S1, but he's jumped far ahead and is now neck and neck with Allen as my second favorite character. Both behind Cecil, but not by much.

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Originally Posted by Ionathus

Ooh boy, I know this is gonna be a spicy take but: I always liked Amber's season one "I knew all along/figured it out" twist. I thought it was a unique way to tackle the inevitable selfish flakiness of a superhero trying to live a normal life.

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The problem is when we have scenes like she giving Mark a really hard time for "abandoning" her when the cyborgs attacked... When she was right there seeing him (in his Invincible persona) fighting the cyborgs to protect her and other innocents.

They probably gave her the "I knew all along" twist to make her seem intelligent, but instead... It just made her look really petty and cruel. She is always reprimanding him for being absent, when she knows that he's out there literally saving lives.

If she were unaware of his secret identity, her frustration and anger are understandable (IIRC, in the comics, she ends up thinking he's a drug dealer), but if she knows what he's doing (especially in the cyborg attack scene), she's just a horrible person and even worse girlfriend.

Luckily, they actually managed to turn her around and make her an actually likable character. She's still frustrated with Mark's lack of time for their relationship, but she shows understanding and gives him support, because she knows what he's doing out there... It doesn't stop them from breaking up, but it does come out as "unfortunately, we can't make it work", rather than "spending time with me is more important than literally saving lives. including mine".

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Originally Posted by Ionathus

I also disagree on this point. I think giving us more of Debbie helped explore some pretty powerful moments of what it's like to be a "normal" dating a "super." And Debbie was also fantastic for helping unpack Nolan's deception and manipulation over all those years. Mark has other stuff to worry about at the same time, but Debbie honestly has more than enough material to chew through, just on the weight of Nolan's betrayal. That's one of the elements of the show that make Invincible unique, and I loved it. Wanted more of it, TBH.

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Her storyline fine... I just wish it didn't take so much time out of the season. IMO, quite a few of her scenes could've been cut without any significant detriment to her story, which would give us more time for more interesting stuff.

Overall... The shows feels kinda rushed when compared to the comics, but I suppose that's par for the course.

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Originally Posted by Lemmy

Overall... The shows feels kinda rushed when compared to the comics, but I suppose that's par for the course.

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The comics ran for what, 18 years? They've got the story, probably don't think they'll be spending over a decade telling it. I wouldn't call it rushed, I'd call it necessary changes for the adaptation.

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Originally Posted by Peelee

The comics ran for what, 18 years? They've got the story, probably don't think they'll be spending over a decade telling it. I wouldn't call it rushed, I'd call it necessary changes for the adaptation.

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Therefore, the "par for the course" part of my post...

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Originally Posted by Ionathus

Ooh boy, I know this is gonna be a spicy take but: I always liked Amber's season one "I knew all along/figured it out" twist. I thought it was a unique way to tackle the inevitable selfish flakiness of a superhero trying to live a normal life.

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So I line up more with Lemmy's assessment with Amber in season one, she is an awful person specifically because of that line. Everything else you say about Mark, how he's a bit selfish (which understandable, he's a young guy), and everything else I ultimately agree with. It is a fun and interesting discussion. The issue is, when Amber is out of the loop in the comics she assumes Mark is a drug dealer (due to her past experiences) which makes her sympathetic and explains why she's upset in an understandable way. It keeps something fairly unusual in comics where..they do like each other but it ultimately doesn't work out and they peacefully go separate ways.

In the show's first season...she's short because Mark is flaky, understandable but then two specific scenes happen.

First, during the cyborg attack she gets pissed off because Mark abandons her to...come back, save her life, and the lives of other people. And because of the future line, this is infuriating because she knows Mark didn't abandon her but flips out on him regardless over it. Now you could make the argument that Amber is upset because Mark still doesn't reveal his secret identity at that point or something like that..but that only works if you have the future vision of the next problem scene. And again, if Amber doesn't know Mark's secret, this scene works perfectly fine, cause being pissed off that your boyfriend ran off when a murderous cyborg attacked is pretty gorram understandable and sympathetic.

Second scene...She reveals she knows Mark is Invincible and has apparently known it for a while now, which re-contextualizes every time she gets mad at him for being flaky earlier in the series cause we, the audience, don't know when she figured it out. The time frame implies she knows he's a superhero who's going out to save people's lives, destroy meteors, fights giant monsters, etc when she gets upset he couldn't make it to the soup kitchen to help her charity work which...is pretty goddamn ridiculous but ties into the problem with that whole episode where the stone guy (who's name escapes me) gets background apparently not in the comics to make himself sympathetic and how Invincible isn't REALLY helping anyone out because he's not dealing with street level crime and how Omni-Man is wrong because he wants Mark to focus on big picture events like..stopping meteors the size of large mountains from hitting the planet. Something very few heroes on Earth can do if not just Omni-man and Invincible. To improve the lives of dozens at the cost of thousands if not millions of lives. Amber is used to show that shoddy 'lesson' on a personal scale..but this happens right before the cyborg attack. Which means while Invicible is being beaten an inch away from death by Battle Beast while trying to dislodge a sadistic super crimelord...Amber is being pissy he can't help in a soup kitchen despite knowing his secret identity. That's what makes Amber awful and its compounded by later in the argument when she gets mad he didn't tell her about his secret identity because they've been a couple for...a month? Two? Y'know, the thing that's as much to keep her safe as much as Mark, its somehow a great moral failing he didn't share it with a girl he's been dating for a very short amount of time that they haven't been spending a lot of time together..but then the show expects me to treat Mark like he's the ******* and Amber is right. Lol. Lmao, no.

Cause the show ruins a very understandable motive and reason to be upset with Mark with that one line that was not originally in the comics 'I figured out you were Invincible a while ago'.

That said...Season 2 Amber is practically an entirely different character from the first season, I don't know if she's a lot more comic accurate or not, but she is IMMENSELY more tolerable and didn't make me yell at the screen once for existing. I actually enjoyed her scenes with Mark in the second season cause she wasn't written like an unreasonable harpy but an understandably frustrated but supportive partner...all it apparently took was Mark's father beating him into a bloody mess after leveling Chicago and a lobotomy in the gap between seasons.

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Originally Posted by Lemmy

Therefore, the "par for the course" part of my post...

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Yeah, you said rushed was par for the course. I countered that rushed is different from condensed.

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Originally Posted by Spore

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The walking/flying sexual assault scenario Anissa frankly scares me about the future of the show.

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I...I don't remember this? That's the Viltrumite Mark fights near the end of the season? It seemed like a pretty standard fight scene to me, certainly nothing weird that I remember from it. What do you mean with this?

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Originally Posted by Lemmy

...It just made her look really petty and cruel. She is always reprimanding him for being absent, when she knows that he's out there literally saving lives.

If she were unaware of his secret identity, her frustration and anger are understandable (IIRC, in the comics, she ends up thinking he's a drug dealer), but if she knows what he's doing (especially in the cyborg attack scene), she's just a horrible person and even worse girlfriend.

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She's not reprimanding him purely for being absent. And she's not reprimanding him purely for not sharing his superhero identity with his 1-month girlfriend. She's reprimanding him for making promises he knows he can't keep.

When Amber had her "I know you're Invincible" reveal, I was also initially annoyed that she would think she has a right to get mad. And once she'd found out, her decision to keep up the façade and "test" Mark seemed really capricious. But as she explained her viewpoint, it made sense to me. Mark's frequent absences and lies are hurtful. You shouldn't be that unreliable and dishonest with your partner. To my memory, Amber was continuing the charade to see if Mark would eventually realize how much grief he was putting her through, and either come clean or stop making unkeepable promises.

And yeah, Mark is busy saving the world. That's important (shocker, I know). He shouldn't be neglecting that to hang out with his casual girlfriend. But those aren't things he was cursed with: they're things he signed up for. Mark chose to take on superhero duties. And then he chose to start a relationship, when he knew he didn't have the time or control over his schedule to do so honestly. That sucks. It sucks being lied to, it sucks being stood up. And Mark chose to set someone up for that, repeatedly. When Amber confronted him with (at first genuine, and then later simulated) feelings of confusion, betrayal, and anger, it should have been a sign to Mark that it wasn't working, and he needed to reprioritize one way or the other. You can date people more casually. You can choose to not date until your personal life equalizes out. You can date someone who understands your situation (i.e. another superhero). Mark had that choice, over and over again, and he didn't choose it. He tried to have it both ways, despite that choice clearly hurting Amber.

Just because Mark is saving the world doesn't mean he can't learn some lessons about communication, respect, and trust.

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Side note: I do agree about the cyborg attack. It causes character problems because Amber does know what's going on and Mark did do the right thing there. I personally didn't mind the scene; I can explain it to myself through a mix of two thoughts. First, she was trying to preserve how a clueless Amber would react. Second, Amber was genuinely upset and scared. She's not a fighter, she's a civilian. Having Mark vanish even for a second would still spook her and make her act irrationally.

That's just my own justification, though. I admit it's still a poorly-handled scene in relation to the "Amber knew" arc. Just that it didn't bother me much, personally.

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Originally Posted by Peelee

Yeah, you said rushed was par for the course. I countered that rushed is different from condensed.

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Meh... tomato, to-mah-to.

I'd still use the word "rushed", despite its negative connotation, because I disagree considerably with some of the producers' choices of which parts of the story to condense/skip and which ones to keep/extend.

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Originally Posted by Lemmy

Meh... tomato, to-mah-to.

I'd still use the word "rushed", despite its negative connotation, because I disagree considerably with some of the producers' choices of which parts of the story to condense/skip and which ones to keep/extend.

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Ya know, that's fair.

They certainly made some interesting decisions about what to keep -- at least, having never read the comics, it feels that way as a viewer.

I had a similar experience watching Arcane recently: every so often, the characters or story would just suddenly lurch in an unexpected direction that would make me think "hmm, must be some canon from the source material that they have to make a nod to."

Mostly these were just isolated moments, though they were distracting on occasion. For a really egregious version, I'd refer to Netflix's Avatar adaptation, which at times felt like nothing but the writers thinking they were constrained by the source material.

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Originally Posted by Ionathus

They certainly made some interesting decisions about what to keep -- at least, having never read the comics, it feels that way as a viewer.

I had a similar experience watching Arcane recently: every so often, the characters or story would just suddenly lurch in an unexpected direction that would make me think "hmm, must be some canon from the source material that they have to make a nod to."

Mostly these were just isolated moments, though they were distracting on occasion. For a really egregious version, I'd refer to Netflix's Avatar adaptation, which at times felt like nothing but the writers thinking they were constrained by the source material.

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I heard from a friend in the comics, you have Omni-Man play it straight for a bit before killing the GotG, so it's a much bigger whiplash moment. But for the show, having it on the first episode was the right call. Gotta condense, and all.

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Originally Posted by Ionathus

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I...I don't remember this? That's the Viltrumite Mark fights near the end of the season? It seemed like a pretty standard fight scene to me, certainly nothing weird that I remember from it. What do you mean with this?

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It is not part of the show but the comics. Anissa is a ... difficult character.

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Originally Posted by Lemmy

The problem is when we have scenes like she giving Mark a really hard time for "abandoning" her when the cyborgs attacked... When she was right there seeing him (in his Invincible persona) fighting the cyborgs to protect her and other innocents.

They probably gave her the "I knew all along" twist to make her seem intelligent, but instead... It just made her look really petty and cruel. She is always reprimanding him for being absent, when she knows that he's out there literally saving lives.

If she were unaware of his secret identity, her frustration and anger are understandable (IIRC, in the comics, she ends up thinking he's a drug dealer), but if she knows what he's doing (especially in the cyborg attack scene), she's just a horrible person and even worse girlfriend.

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I would agree with that, yes.

They otherwise did a good job with her, but that particular line felt like an effort to strengthen the character without thinking of the consequences.

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Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran

That said...Season 2 Amber is practically an entirely different character from the first season, I don't know if she's a lot more comic accurate or not, but she is IMMENSELY more tolerable and didn't make me yell at the screen once for existing. I actually enjoyed her scenes with Mark in the second season cause she wasn't written like an unreasonable harpy but an understandably frustrated but supportive partner...all it apparently took was Mark's father beating him into a bloody mess after leveling Chicago and a lobotomy in the gap between seasons.

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So, it's been a minute since I read the comics, but...from what I recall, Amber just isn't quite as large of a focus. The same basic direction happens with their relationship, but even fairly early on I felt that they were foreshadowing that it wasn't going to work out.

There is still the whole "the Universe hates Mark, and he never gets a minute to relax" mostly. Frankly, the dude does kind of amazing when you consider all the stresses he's under.

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Originally Posted by Ionathus

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I...I don't remember this? That's the Viltrumite Mark fights near the end of the season? It seemed like a pretty standard fight scene to me, certainly nothing weird that I remember from it. What do you mean with this?

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Uh, basically, it's comic spoilers from later on. I don't want to dive into too much detail here, but suffice it to say that Mark's time of getting an unreasonable share of massive problems are coming to a middle, and some problems later in the show are challenging to depict in a network TV friendly sort of way.

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To my memory, Amber was continuing the charade to see if Mark would eventually realize how much grief he was putting her through, and either come clean or stop making unkeepable promises.

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Yeah, that's...not really a good thing to do. Mark lying isn't great, but it is sort of necessary in this world to protect her as well as his family. Her lies are not necessary to anyone but her. She's always a great deal more selfish than Mark.

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Mark chose to take on superhero duties

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In a certain sense, yes. But in another sense, not doing so would literally have meant the end of the world a coupla times over. So, the alternative is that Amber is deceased.

Thank you both for spoilers-lite context on Anissa.

If it's as bad as has been vaguely hinted at, I wonder if that's something they'll remove or rework in the adaptation.

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Originally Posted by Tyndmyr

Yeah, that's...not really a good thing to do. Mark lying isn't great, but it is sort of necessary in this world to protect her as well as his family. Her lies are not necessary to anyone but her. She's always a great deal more selfish than Mark.

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Amber is not selfish for wanting her boyfriend to stop lying to her.

I don't really care about how good Mark's excuses are or how much of a good boy he's been or how many times he's saved the world. Saving the world is important, and he should do it. But it's clear by the end of Season 1 that he can't manage that dynamic in a mature way that's respectful to his partner. Constantly flaking on promises, and then lying about why you weren't there, is not a sustainable long-term strategy for a relationship. That's not going to change, and Mark should really have recognized that, and broken up with Amber, or at the very least stopped making specific time commitments with her.

These are teenagers trying to figure out how to be good romantic partners. Mistakes are par for the course, and it isn't a moral failing of Mark or Amber to mess up. But Mark has to learn to treat the people he cares about with respect. He doesn't get a pass for repeatedly overcommitting and covering his tracks with lies just because his other conflict is more important.

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In a certain sense, yes. But in another sense, not doing so would literally have meant the end of the world a coupla times over. So, the alternative is that Amber is deceased.

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No, the alternative is that Mark continues to save the world, and he doesn't date someone if he can't be available and honest with them.

And when I say "honesty," I don't even just mean "tell them your secret identity." What I mean is that he needs to be honest with himself about how much time he can commit to a relationship. And if he can't commit that time, he should stop jerking Amber around with promises he knows he can't keep, and either keep things purely casual or break it off entirely.

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Originally Posted by Ionathus

These are teenagers

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While i like everything you said, i think this part needs to really be hammered in a bit more.

Amber is 18! Not typically associated with being a bastion of perfect decision-making. Frankly, Amber, Mark, and Eve are all already far beyond what I'd actually expect from the average teen. Screwing up every so often is forgivable so long as they try to be better, and Amber certainly tries.

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Originally Posted by Ionathus

And when I say "honesty," I don't even just mean "tell them your secret identity." What I mean is that he needs to be honest with himself about how much time he can commit to a relationship.

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AKA exactly what he does in season 2.:smallwink:

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Originally Posted by Lemmy

I'm surprised they actually managed to somewhat redeem Amber in this season... The "I know you're Invincible" line from the first season turned her from a kinda annoying but understandably frustrated girlfriend (like in the comics) into a horribly selfish, petty and cruel person.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran

Second scene...She reveals she knows Mark is Invincible and has apparently known it for a while now,

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Amber says she knows "Mark is a superhero," not "Mark is Invincible." Your arguments are invalid.

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Originally Posted by Zalabim

Amber says she knows "Mark is a superhero," not "Mark is Invincible." Your arguments are invalid.

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Of course... Surely she thought he's Atom Eve.

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Originally Posted by Peelee

Don't know why they had a months-long gap between the two halves of the season, but I've heard the creator say the wait for season 3 will only be one year, so that made me happy.

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Originally Posted by Ionathus

Thankfully I didn't experience too much of that extra bit of annoyance: I only went "oh yeah, there's more Invincible" about three weeks before part 2 came out, so I didn't have long to wait.

Still very annoying. I know that splitting the season is a fairly common (or at least not very rare) practice -- wasn't Breaking Bad season 5 that way?

I'm sure production schedules and publishing/advertising schedules are a giant mess for everyone involved, and I believe that the production team is doing their best. But releasing a season in two parts, months separated, makes for such a weird audience experience. Especially if the entire season is only 8 episodes, so your "part 1" is only 4 episodes.

Invincible feels like the worst offender for this but I've definitely had this experience several times recently. I would love it if we could just get the "arc" produced and released in one coherent piece, thanks.

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In reading this, it sounded like it was at least partly at Amazon's urging.

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Originally Posted by Lemmy

Meh... tomato, to-mah-to.

I'd still use the word "rushed", despite its negative connotation, because I disagree considerably with some of the producers' choices of which parts of the story to condense/skip and which ones to keep/extend.

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I'd say there is a difference, which you actually point out.

Rushed has a negative connotation because it is generally considered a negative in this context. For example, many felt the end of Game of Thrones was rushed (we can't say condensed since we don't know what the original ending was intended to be yet).

Condensed means material has been edited/deleted to make events happen closer together from a viewer perspective. Something might be condensed and not feel rushed, or feel rushed but not have been condensed.

I've read the comics, and so far I'd argue condensed, not rushed. YMMV of course.