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Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
As you can tell by the title, this is about what happens when the tippyverse versions of DnD and harry potter collide. Somehow potterverse wizards discover a new world or DnD Wizards scry on a new world to conquer.
I would like to see the logical uses of magic on both sides as they try to conquer each other.
DnD: Typical Tippyverse, cities under Epic Wizards rule, wilderness in between. Say about a dozen cities with a few hundred low-level Wizards, a few score or so mid to high level Wizard and only a handful(12) Epic Wizards,
Epic Spellcasting allowed but try not to use shenanigans( ie Pun-Pun, gate abuse, Candle of Invocation etc), Spell Point System allowed to match Potterverse casting power, and Epic Wizards do not see eye to eye( Just because they are conquering a world does not mean they cant get rid of a rival)
Potterverse:set after Book 4, Voldemort is alive, wizards/witches using abilities to full competency, try not to use timeturner shenanigans, Muggles can work together with them but other than that still oblivious (secrecy act) to wizarding world
Hope this thread sees some good use:smallbiggrin:
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
I think HP magic would win in sheer numbers. Their magic is slightly less powerful at the high end (and uses way too many Rays), but every one of them is effectively a mid level Sorcerer with unlimited spells.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Harry Potter wizards are basically Warlocks - unlimited uses of frankly mediocre spells, and all the good stuff is done with magic items. Even a single 20th level wizard could tear apart their entire community with Astral Projected Ice Assassins and what have you while sitting 100% safe inside of his Genesis'd demiplane. It wouldn't even have to be fast-time because Harry Potter magic doesn't have planar travel.
And if they manage to kill the real him somehow, Contingent Revivify. HP magic can't even bring people back from the dead.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Well to be honest .... In a Tippyverse the HP world would get obliterated within a day or less. Just cause the shenanigans (completely without epic spellcasting) will win. Infinite summoning? Yes please.
Under the assumption of course that it would come to a war of worlds.
edit: I agree with Flickerdart. One Wizard could (probably without sweating) win alone
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Gonna have to agree with Flickerdart-there's just too many weaknesses the HP universe would have to shore up to come close.
-The wands are breakable, and they can't cast without a wand. Hello, fire spells.
-All HP wizards have to point and cast. There's way too many spells they don't have that would screw with their line of sight.
-A single Disjunction from a single Tippy Wizard destroys half of Hogwarts. And then he casts a second one.
-Shadesteel golems. HP universe has no way of dealing with Shadesteel golems, and that's a huge component of Tippyverse.
-HP universe might have 'Prevent Teleportation,' but Tippyverse uses Wish to teleport instead. No way of getting them out once they get in!
-Can we say 'Mass Dominate Person?' Last I checked, it was a forbidden spell for the HP universe to use it on a SINGLE person, and every Tippyverse wizard has Mind Blank anyway.
Even with HP wizards set on 'maximum competency,' they lose the arms race. At least, without abusing time turner shenanigans, and even then I'm not entirely sure. Tippyverse Wizards plan contingencies for their contingencies, and just changing one detail probably wouldn't be enough. And they have to deal with the fact that their Time Turner risks Disjunction on every go-round.
HP Universe would have to rely on the Tippyverse Wizards being too busy fighting each other to even stand a chance.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Der_DWSage
Gonna have to agree with Flickerdart-there's just too many weaknesses the HP universe would have to shore up to come close.
-The wands are breakable, and they can't cast without a wand. Hello, fire spells.
-All HP wizards have to point and cast. There's way too many spells they don't have that would screw with their line of sight.
-A single Disjunction from a single Tippy Wizard destroys half of Hogwarts. And then he casts a second one.
-Shadesteel golems. HP universe has no way of dealing with Shadesteel golems, and that's a huge component of Tippyverse.
-HP universe might have 'Prevent Teleportation,' but Tippyverse uses Wish to teleport instead. No way of getting them out once they get in!
-Can we say 'Mass Dominate Person?' Last I checked, it was a forbidden spell for the HP universe to use it on a SINGLE person, and every Tippyverse wizard has Mind Blank anyway.
Even with HP wizards set on 'maximum competency,' they lose the arms race. At least, without abusing time turner shenanigans, and even then I'm not entirely sure. Tippyverse Wizards plan contingencies for their contingencies, and just changing one detail probably wouldn't be enough. And they have to deal with the fact that their Time Turner risks Disjunction on every go-round.
HP Universe would have to rely on the Tippyverse Wizards being too busy fighting each other to even stand a chance.
What if the DnD Wizards were fighting one another?
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Xar Zarath
What if the DnD Wizards were fighting one another?
They send a handful of simalcra, ice assassins, or mind raped (slightly lesser) Wizards to dominate the HPverse as a secondary objective. They don't need to put real resources towards it to at least clear out any potential nuisances from the HPverse so that gathering resources will be easier later.
Edit: I'm not sure what resources exist in the HPverse that would be interesting enough to get the Tippyverse Wizards to even do that though. The Time Turner is only about as powerful as some of the time bending shenanigans already available in 3.5.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Flickerdart
Harry Potter wizards are basically Warlocks - unlimited uses of frankly mediocre spells, and all the good stuff is done with magic items.
I've never thought about it before but this is a frighteningly good summation of the HP universe magic system, its a lot of fairly standard and unimpressive magic, that is very spammable. Backed up by utterly huge numbers of wondrous items.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Shatter pretty much solves any confrontation with HP wizards, to even hope to compete they would have to develop wandless magic PDQ, and then teach it to everyone. Even dispel magic is a solution that most wizards prepare at least one of on an average day, turning off all of those shiny magical toys. And don't forget that 3.5 tippyverse has clerics, druids, and non-casters. An AMF necklace on a barbarian will leave even dumbledore as so much reddish goo on the wall.
Also salient point, assuming that they haven't been hunted to extinction by wizards for crafting xp, 3.5 dragons put hp dragons to shame, hyper intelligent, bigger, and casters I their own right, they will make their opposite number extinct in a hurry.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
I'd echo what's being said here as basically accurate, assuming war broke out between the two universes. If, however, you are looking for something more akin to how the two types of magic would interact if places in the opposite respective universe, google "Harry Potter and the Natural 20". It is quite an enjoyable (and hilarious!) read.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Well, first, we need to make some decisions about how exactly magic from different worlds will interact with one another. For example, while the effect of the HP spells seems unimpressive for an experienced dnd player, they appears to be impossible to resist unless you managed to cast a counterspell. So, if when interacting with dnd HP spells would work with same mechanic (i.e. they WILL have saves, SR and such) then dnd mages will have undeniable upperhand. But if they'll work like in books...Proteus will defend you from almost anything targeted directly at you and some stuff that don't, while against Avada Kedavra there isn't any defense barring touch AC and plot armor (well, maybe immunity to death effect would work). Spells in HP universe less potent but much more universal then those from Vancian spellcasting.
IMHO, hp universe will have an upperhand in magic items, since they have really potent ones (like going back through time, yes).
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Lemme know when someone figures out how HP characters will handle even one of Tippy's magic-immune shadesteel golems. Then we'll talk about them being able to handle the intelligent wizards behind them.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Der_DWSage
Lemme know when someone figures out how HP characters will handle even one of Tippy's magic-immune shadesteel golems. Then we'll talk about them being able to handle the intelligent wizards behind them.
The thing is that it is an assumption that d&d magic immunity has any effect at all on HP magic (same goes for amf) :smallwink:
Overall while HP mages have about a billion small utility spells and pretty much unlimited spellslots d&d magic is just too open ended power wise (ie badly designed), Potterverse doesnt stand a chance ^^
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
I think we can agree that a Shadesteel Golem is going to be a major stumbling block even without the immunity, though. Every 12-30 seconds it sends out a pulse of dark magic that will likely kill all humans within its radius? Huge amounts of HP?
However, I will admit to one stumbling block I hadn't given the strongest thought to. Hermoine + Voldemort working together, with a time turner and the elder wand. Infinite chances to make things work, and Voldemort's already essentially a Lich. Hermoine could theoretically improve the process.
That would at least give Tippyverse wizards pause. I think those two are the only ones Tippyverse Wizards would respect.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Bind with plants, ward against it, get a giant to pick it up and use it as a backscratcher, trap it in a time or space bubble or loop, push it through a 'doorway of death', bind it using reinforced titanium chains wielded by a squad of schoolchildren on brooms, or let it wander around, totally unable to enter or even perceive the magical subspaces that much of the HP universe is based around until the muggles call in an airstrike.
How would a Tippyverse epic wizard defend against wizards with an unforgivable curse that grants them control of their body, who are trained to dodge spells, who can counter spells as they are cast, and who can cast at a conservative estimate maybe four times as fast as Tippyverse wizards?
It's just possible that this kind of contest comes down to how you judge the two to interact. If you assume that the Tippyverse wizards can weild all their usual powers with all their usual effectiveness in the new world, then of course they'll win. If you assume the same of the HP wizards, then of course they'll win. To do a proper comparison you have to give both sides all the normal advantages they are used to having. That means that Shadesteel golems are immune to HP magic, but it also means that HP wizards, if faced with a wish spell, can simply counter or duck.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Plugging in a rather good fanfic: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8096183/...the-Natural-20
It was compared to some of the weaker Terry Pratchett novels by a reader, a sentiment I agree with.
In this fanfic, the interactions are weird - Potterverse broooms aren't recognized as magic items by Detect Magic, for example.
If we assume Potterverse runs on DnD rules, the WWW-assessment (Warlocks With Wondrous items) is true. If we assume it doesn't, then Potterverse gains significant advantage by, for example, not being limited by Initiative order. It takes me about 1.5 seconds to say "Avada Kedavra"...
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
I say it would come down to divination and travel.
I think that the side that picks the battlefield wins.
Ok, consider this, HP has an unbreakable mind control ability that cannot be resisted that lasts until the death of the caster.
Get within wand distance of one epic wizard, and now the HP universe has epic spellcasting.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
But it can be resisted given enough time depending on your willpower^^
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Flickerdart
*Snip*
... So... Basically this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fouredged Sword
Get within wand distance of one epic wizard, and now the HP universe has epic spellcasting.
I'd like to ask the question of what SANE Epic Spellcaster doesn't use Mind Blank? Better yet, what Spellcaster doesn't use Protection from Evil/Good/Chaos/Law to prevent themselves from getting mind controlled? :smallconfused:
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
What epic spellcaster has a bad will save, anyway?
This isn't getting started on the fact that a level twenty wizard is still twice as good in a brawl as the real world's best fighters. Magic stick + buffs. They wouldn't even need to use any of the destructive spells, just go around whacking HP wizards over the head.
Also, was reading that fanfic the other day. Interesting coincidence. Still not sure why he hasn't made some sort of CON-booster yet, given squishiness.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
I am sure it's on his list, right after making an anti mind control item for everyone who matters. He has summons to tank for him, when it comes down to that.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fouredged Sword
I am sure it's on his list, right after making an anti mind control item for everyone who matters. He has summons to tank for him, when it comes down to that.
But he's already done all those. :p
Also, how many times has Milo gone into negative HP or 0 HP, already? Whatever of Health +4 would almost double his HP. XD
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
What makes you think D&D wizards haven't already invaded and are rulling the place?
In one of the movies a guy is at the inn and is reading Steven Hawkings and using wandless magic to stir his soup or whatever..
Big V can't do that crap.
Harry can't do that.
Big D couldn't do it either.
Reason? He is a high level D&D wizard sent to keep their sheep in line.
(There was a buzzfeed article about this guy Lol)
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Before anyone forgets, I'd like to remind you all that the first time Harry used magic, he did not use a wand and he did not use any components. Later, wizards are shown using magic without wands and.or components. Not that I think HP wizards would win, just that you guys need to get your facts straight.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snowbluff
Before anyone forgets, I'd like to remind you all that the first time Harry used magic, he did not use a wand and he did not use any components. Later, wizards are shown using magic without wands and.or components. Not that I think HP wizards would win, just that you guys need to get your facts straight.
The problem is that all the decent spells they have seem to require wands and aiming.
Mass Hold Person, anyone? Or even Grease? :smallbiggrin:
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snowbluff
Before anyone forgets, I'd like to remind you all that the first time Harry used magic, he did not use a wand and he did not use any components. Later, wizards are shown using magic without wands and.or components. Not that I think HP wizards would win, just that you guys need to get your facts straight.
They can use magic without wands, they just aren't very good at controlling it or generating very large effects. The wand serves as a focus.
We see them practicing what is essentially the Silent Spell feat in one of the books though, I'd assume a badass enough HP Wizard could do all his stuff without a wand. Which in theory could allow him to essentially cast an infinite number of Silent, Still spells.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snowbluff
Before anyone forgets, I'd like to remind you all that the first time Harry used magic, he did not use a wand and he did not use any components. Later, wizards are shown using magic without wands and.or components. Not that I think HP wizards would win, just that you guys need to get your facts straight.
Solo sorcerers by magic birth (when they gain their powers) then magically lose the no wand abilities and become warlocks?
Or mass suggestion or whatever (plot) "y'all need need wands to cast" was cast sometime after harry did that by the guy I mentioned before?
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
undead hero
Solo sorcerers by magic birth (when they gain their powers) then magically lose the no wand abilities and become warlocks?
Or mass suggestion or whatever (plot) "y'all need need wands to cast" was cast sometime after harry did that by the guy I mentioned before?
I'd imagine they would start off as Sorcerer 1 or Warlock 1 (If they are of some Wizardly birth, otherwise they start off with a level in Commoner or Rogue or any non-magical class) then they take a level in Wizard until 4th level and then they progress as an Ultimate Magus.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Der_DWSage
-The wands are breakable, and they can't cast without a wand. Hello, fire spells.
-All HP wizards have to point and cast. There's way too many spells they don't have that would screw with their line of sight.
The wands act as a focus, making it easier to cast the spells they want to cast at any given time.
They can cast based on their emotions, silently and even without a wand. Lacking these components just makes the casting harder to control.
Yep, casting without a Wand, speaking or doing any fancy crap is basically metamagic.
Other than that, the Wizards in HP are hidden from the mundanes. In TV, the Wizards rule the world openly.
Kinda obvious what would happen in a direct confrontation. Shadesteel Golems and several outsiders would pour into London, people would find themselves dominated and forced into fighting the nearest person shooting at the otherworldly invaders, planes would be directed into the ground by dragons much larger than anything HP knows.
When the entire world bands together in a single army to fight off the invading Wizards, they'll begin to starve from the abnormal weather (maybe from Fimbulwinter) long before their enemy and any traitors, due to the invading Wizards' unlimited supply of resources. And that's if the D&D Wizards take things slow.
Harry Potter, Tom Riddle and Albus Percival Wolfrick Brian Dumbledore would all have their minds transformed into a little something to help the invaders convince (or even "convince") the native magic using population to lower arms and defences. Before being slaughtered.
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Re: Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse
The lord voldermort kills everyone because he Horicruxed the voyager plate, and is unkillable. :smallbiggrin: For those who get the reference.