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...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
In this comic, Tarquin mentions a Gate, an abomination, and a ritual which Nale does not have, but instead it's owned by a friend of a friend.
Who is the friend and who is their friend? (Spoilers in white text)
Is the friend Sabine and her friend someone on the IFCC?
Is it Qarr, and does V somehow know bits of the ritual?
Do they and Redcloak have a mutual friend?
I mean, I know Team Xykon have at least one half of the ritual...
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
You don't need to spoiler anything, you know.
Team Evil has both halves of the ritual - the part Redcloak wrote down for Xykon (the arcane half), and the part the Crimson Mantle imparts to his mind (the divine half). Nale was probably talking about Redcloak, and Tarquin most likely did not literally mean that he thought the person Nale was referring to was actually his friend. He most likely meant it in a way similar to the way you might use it when talking about the verifiability of an Urban Legend (for instance), where "friend of a friend" means "you heard it from someone you know, but you don't know where they got it from."
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Socksy
In
this comic, Tarquin mentions a Gate, an abomination, and a ritual which Nale does not have, but instead it's owned by a friend of a friend.
821:
"Tarquin: And you know this ritual?"
"Nale: No. But I know who does. I've worked with them before. You won't get it from them without my help."
That's all Tarquin knows about the conection.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
"friend of a friend" is a phrase used to say that the information is unreliable. By using that phrase Tarquin implies that Nale actually doesn't have access to that ritual.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
It's not meant to be taken literally. Team Evil is the group with the ritual.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
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Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
It's not meant to be taken literally.
I think it is.
Quote:
Team Evil is the group with the ritual.
You can refine that. Nale has worked for Xykon ("friend") and Redcloak has the ritual and works with Xykon ("friend" of a "friend").
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
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Originally Posted by
halfeye
You can even refine that. Nale has worked for Xykon ("friend") and Redcloak has the ritual and works with Xykon ("friend" of a "friend").
For some reason I thought that Xykon had gotten his half back (which is why I said Team Evil and not Redcloak), but looking at the strip where Redcloak talks about killing Tsukiko, it looks like he never he actually gave it back.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
For some reason I thought that Xykon had gotten his half back (which is why I said Team Evil and not Redcloak), but looking at the strip where Redcloak talks about killing Tsukiko, it looks like he never he actually gave it back.
I think that Tsukiko only had a copy of it.
Either way Redcloak is the only one who has the complete ritual, though he only can cast one half. And for practical purposes Xykon imo should be considered to have the arcane half.
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Originally Posted by
halfeye
You can refine that. Nale has worked for Xykon ("friend") and Redcloak has the ritual and works with Xykon ("friend" of a "friend").
Even calling Redcloak and Xykon "friends" is a stretch. Calling Nale and Xykon "friends" would nothing but a lie.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Obviously one of Thog's friends in the Barbarians' Guild.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
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Originally Posted by
ChristianSt
I think that Tsukiko only had a copy of it.
Oh, yeah, Redcloak calls it a copy. Okay, then Team Evil works.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
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Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
Oh, yeah, Redcloak calls it a copy. Okay, then Team Evil works.
Since the "original" only exists in RC head, thanks to the Cloak, everything else is technically a copy.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
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Originally Posted by
snowblizz
Since the "original" only exists in RC head, thanks to the Cloak, everything else is technically a copy.
That is true. However, since Redcloak says it's a copy of Xykon's half, it seems likely that he is referring to the ritual Xykon keeps with him.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
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Originally Posted by
ChristianSt
Even calling Redcloak and Xykon "friends" is a stretch. Calling Nale and Xykon "friends" would nothing but a lie.
That's why I put "friend" in quotes.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChristianSt
Even calling Redcloak and Xykon "friends" is a stretch. Calling Nale and Xykon "friends" would nothing but a lie.
True, but to Tarquin, being that he isn't NEARLY as intimately familiar with those relationships as we are, "a friend of a friend" is close enough to "the co-worker of your former employer" to be true. I think the "friend of a friend" was directly referring to Redcloak, not as a figure of speech.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
That is true. However, since Redcloak says it's a copy of Xykon's half, it seems likely that he is referring to the ritual Xykon keeps with him.
What Xykon has or hasn't is largely immaterial though? He can't do jack with it anyway, nor can anyone else it would seem. When it would be relevant if he hasn't got "his copy" then RC will provide one.
X doesn't seem to be entirely trusting of RC, which show he's smarter than we give him credit for sometimes. Which kind leads to the question, is there a Team Evil as such. The only one actually with the ritual is RC.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Why are we arguing about the semantics of "copy"?
If it was a copy of the copy, then Xykon still has it.
If it was the only copy, then Xykon would simply ask for it back from Redcloak, or go into Tsukiko's room to get it, or whatever.
Why does it matter? There's no logical reason for Xkyon not to make sure he still has his half of the ritual after Tsukiko's death. It doesn't benefit Red Cloak at all to keep it from him, since he still wants him to cast his half.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Oh, thanks! I totally forgot about Nale working for Xykon at the start.:smalltongue::smallbiggrin::smallsmile::smal lsmile::smallsmile::smallredface:
EDIT: I spoilered stuff in case anyone still reading through Miko being a prat or Samantha's bandit camp or something stumbled onto the thread. i didn't want to say too much about where the ritual could be. :smallsmile:
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
snowblizz
What Xykon has or hasn't is largely immaterial though? He can't do jack with it anyway, nor can anyone else it would seem. When it would be relevant if he hasn't got "his copy" then RC will provide one.
X doesn't seem to be entirely trusting of RC, which show he's smarter than we give him credit for sometimes. Which kind leads to the question, is there a Team Evil as such. The only one actually with the ritual is RC.
I think you explained your point a little better here. I would still say that Team Evil has the ritual, as Xykon is the only one of them who can actually cast the arcane half at this point, and he appears to posses a copy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Socksy
EDIT: I spoilered stuff in case anyone still reading through Miko being a prat or Samantha's bandit camp or something stumbled onto the thread. i didn't want to say too much about where the ritual could be. :smallsmile:
Anyone on a forum dedicated to discussing a work should come in expecting spoilers of said work. If they don't want to be spoilered then they should finish the comic first. The only instance where I would put in spoilers is for book-only content.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
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Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
I think you explained your point a little better here. I would still say that Team Evil has the ritual, as Xykon is the only one of them who can actually cast the arcane half at this point, and he appears to posses a copy.
Is team evil an entity though?
Redcloak has all of the ritual, even though he can only cast half of it himself.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
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Originally Posted by
halfeye
Is team evil an entity though?
Redcloak has all of the ritual, even though he can only cast half of it himself.
Team Evil is a group of people with the shared goal of getting access to a Gate. Although the members of the team have different ideas of what they want to do with the Gate. I say that they have the ritual because only together can they cast the ritual.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Tarquin was just showing Nale the flaws in his plan. "Friend of a friend" is a very common American idiom and should not be taken literally any more than someone asking, "What's up?"
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
Team Evil is a group of people with the shared goal of getting access to a Gate. Although the members of the team have different ideas of what they want to do with the Gate. I say that they have the ritual because only together can they cast the ritual.
That's not strictly accurate. Xykon cannot cast the ritual without Redcloak. But Redcloak could cast the ritual with any mid-level arcane spellcaster, if he got past his emotional investment in Xykon and the equally daunting problem of how to tell Xykon "You're fired" and survive the experience.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
the weird thing is though, is that since we were never shown Xykon and Redcloak hiring the Linear Guild, we will probably never know how the two interacted with each other, when they clearly did. The questions, the burning questions I have about a hypothetical conversation between Nale and Redcloak, or Nale and Xykon....will never happen because the narrative is woven exactly so that Team Evil and Linear Guild never meet again, now that I think about it, much of the comic is based around certain teams of people who have no idea about things that some other team has a good idea about, that they can't find out due to the vast distances and lack of long range communication involved.
which is real frustrating sometimes.
Edit: yeah, Redcloak could've used Nale as the guy to help him cast the ritual. still has sorcerer class, and since he is a young incompetent villain rather than an old competent one like Xykon, it would be much easier for Redcloak to kill off Nale once the ritual is done.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kish
That's not strictly accurate. Xykon cannot cast the ritual without Redcloak. But Redcloak could cast the ritual with any mid-level arcane spellcaster, if he got past his emotional investment in Xykon and the equally daunting problem of how to tell Xykon "You're fired" and survive the experience.
I thought you needed to be close to epic, basically level 17 or higher?
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
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Originally Posted by
Forum Explorer
I thought you needed to be close to epic, basically level 17 or higher?
Many people somehow got that idea, even though it's never stated anywhere and Redcloak was planning to cast his half of the ritual at Lirian's Gate before he was high enough level to have sixth-level spells.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Forum Explorer
I thought you needed to be close to epic, basically level 17 or higher?
How's that work with Redcloak assaulting 3 gates before he was level 17?
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
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Originally Posted by
Forum Explorer
I thought you needed to be close to epic, basically level 17 or higher?
Spoiler: Start of Darkness
Show
Redcloak theorized that creating a Gate (to replace the Lirian's Recently-Demolished-Gate) would require two epic casters, along with years/decades of research.
He said earlier that the ritual required a high-level arcane caster...but "high-level" isn't necessarily "close to epic", I think 15+ would be considered "high-level". Redcloak wasn't even level 11 at the time he and Xykon made the attempt on Lirian's gate, so I have to believe the requirements for the divine caster are different.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
hmm... i wonder what happened to Tsukiko?
I mean, I know she's dead, but might one of the Directors have gotten hold of her soul?
She could have memorized half the spell, and seems to have deduced at least some stuff about the other half. and they'd be friends of a friend, as they're his girlfriend's bosses.
I recon it was just a turn of phrase tho... 'you don't have the ritual, but, like, totally know someone who does'.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kish
That's not strictly accurate. Xykon cannot cast the ritual without Redcloak. But Redcloak could cast the ritual with any mid-level arcane spellcaster, if he got past his emotional investment in Xykon and the equally daunting problem of how to tell Xykon "You're fired" and survive the experience.
Yes, that is true. Technically Redcloak doesn't need Xykon, but I find him actually getting rid of Xykon before the plan is completed to be an unlikely prospect, due to the reasons you mentioned, to the point where I didn't really think it necessary to include.
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Re: ...And you don't even have the ritual but a friend of a friend does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jaxzan Proditor
Yes, that is true. Technically Redcloak doesn't need Xykon, but I find him actually getting rid of Xykon before the plan is completed to be an unlikely prospect, due to the reasons you mentioned, to the point where I didn't really think it necessary to include.
I wouldn't call it unlikely. Now that Operation Fauxlactery is in place, Redcloak is in prime position to dispose of Xykon if his current physical form gets destroyed for any reason. Heck, I think Redcloak will need to dispose of Xykon if that happens, unless he really wants to count on Xykon being forgiving about the deception involving the phylactery and its high-quality-impersonator. I'm not putting any bets on Redcloak completing the ritual if Xykon kills (and probably reanimates) him.
