"When Prisoner Says 'The Easy Way'..."

Up until now, I had assumed that Wanda's reaction to Jillian saying "Easy way" was simple surprise. However, putting it together with Scientivore's interpretation of what Wanda did during this session (a mental suggestion spell not sufficient in itself to make Jillian give up secrets or otherwise comply with anything she didn't really want to do, but making her much more susceptible to torture and psychological manipulation), I now have a new interpretation: Jillian saying "Easy way" was an indication that Wanda's campaign of brainwashing, conducted over multiple captures and interrogations, had reached a significant milestone -- Jillian was now (apparently) ready to spill her secrets without being tortured.

Wanda's comment "I won't waste my time asking 'Easy way or hard way?'" might seem on the surface to contradict that. However, that may have been a calculated ploy -- Jillian speaking up to request the "easy way" after being prompted in a non-encouraging way (i.e. she wasn't simply telling Wanda what she wanted to hear) could be just what Wanda had been waiting for.

Once Jillian had reached that point, Wanda could simply ask questions and get answers, conducting a debriefing rather than an interrogation ("When Prisoner says 'the easy way,' then she gets the easy way.")

If so, Wanda's reaction to Jillian's "very easy way" proposal might reflect irritation at discovering that, no, her work wasn't done after all. It might also reflect a judgment that Jillian -- having demonstrated a strong psychological attachment to Wanda, though expressing it in a manner that did not suit Wanda's purposes -- just needed one more good push to finally break completely. ("But when Prisoner says 'the very easy way'? She gets 'the very hard way.'")

It's unclear whether the mental suggestion spell was a routine feature of these sessions, or if Wanda added it this time to supply that one last push. Her "very hard way" comment (a reference to the breakdown she anticipated from Jillian when the spell expired?) would seem to imply the latter (though that would not rule out the routine use of other mental magicks, such as some form of Thinkamancy to monitor Jillian's mental state and tweak her approach accordingly).

I don't think the expression on Wanda's face in panel five of page 30 supports a calculated ploy at all.

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Originally Posted by benthehater

I don't think the expression on Wanda's face in panel five of page 30 supports a calculated ploy at all.

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To clarify, I mean a calculated ploy to make sure that when Jillian finally says "Easy way", it's a genuine indication that she's ready to cooperate without further coercion, not just saying what she thinks Wanda wants to hear. (The latter is likely to indicate simple fear, not a real long-term "breaking" of the subject.)

Even if Wanda was fairly confident that she'd get Jillian to that point sometime, she had no way to know in advance that it would happen this time, and so it was still a surprise. I read Wanda's expression as a bit surprised, a bit quizzical, and a bit suspicious (all of which fit her "What, really?" followup).

The one real problem with this idea is that, if Wanda thinks the "easy way" means Jillian is ready to spill, why did she then proceed to the Really Hard Way? Simple sadism? It just doesn't add up.

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Originally Posted by factotum

The one real problem with this idea is that, if Wanda thinks the "easy way" means Jillian is ready to spill, why did she then proceed to the Really Hard Way? Simple sadism? It just doesn't add up.

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Because it turned out that "Easy way" didn't mean that after all -- Jillian immediately amended it to "The very easy way.... Let's both of us get out of here...". That wasn't what Wanda was after. (However, it might have convinced her that she was getting close: Jillian had clearly developed a strong psychological bond to her. As I said, Wanda might have decided that one hard push -- "the really hard way" -- would do the trick, especially given that her side was running out of time.)

I wonder whether the emotional bond isn't developing both ways. Wanda may have started telling Jillian about her personal and professional problems as an emergency venting, with the Charm Person-esque effect ensuring that she had a friendly person willing to listen, but I don't think that could go on for long without her becoming fond of the audience.

Oh, I'm sure Wanda feels some connection to Jillian, but I doubt it's a very strong one if she's still willing to use Jill as a mere tool in the upcoming battle.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatum479

Oh, I'm sure Wanda feels some connection to Jillian, but I doubt it's a very strong one if she's still willing to use Jill as a mere tool in the upcoming battle.

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it may also mean Wanda is not very altruistic... she is on the "evil" side

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Originally Posted by Ultimatum479

Oh, I'm sure Wanda feels some connection to Jillian, but I doubt it's a very strong one if she's still willing to use Jill as a mere tool in the upcoming battle.

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True. Also, it's difficult to distinguish genuine sympathy developed out of repeated contact from feigned sympathy used as a manipulation tool, particularly from someone as difficult to read (for the former) and as apparently skilled (in the latter) as Wanda.

The acid test would be if somebody proposes a plan that carries a high risk of getting Jillian croaked or otherwise harmed (above and beyond the already-done harm of breaking and brainwashing her)....

She's basically offering Jill to Parson to use as he wishes. He'll quite likely use her as bait. There will probably be significant risk involved. She doesn't seem to mind.

Oh come on, it's obvious they got it on. :biggrin:

(I took another level in the Guttermind PrC. Can you tell?)

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Originally Posted by jindra34

it may also mean Wanda is not very altruistic... she is on the "evil" side

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You know, that's brilliant to point out. I've been trying to think of a way to express a certain element that seems to be common to most of the characters in the story. Very few of them are altruistic. I'd say almost none. Character's like Ansom seem to have a pretty well fortified claim to righteousness, but the talk with Vinnie indicated the set of potential ulterior motives.

Anyway, onto Wanda. Right now, I think that we've got too much vague stuff to make a clear determination of what's making her tick, and likewise with Jillian as well.

Here's a (at least a I hope so) semi plausible scenario.

Jillian is captured the first time, and Wanda tortures/interrogates her. During said events, Jillian isn't really even suffering that much pain because Wanda's actually quite inept at torture. [!] Wanda complete fails to connect emotionally to other people, complete fails to understand other peoples' way of thinking, and just can't seem to get inside Jillian's head. In this botch of an interogation, Wanda actually winds up doing a lot of talking between ineffective whippings that could only be delivered by a class as martial as a caster, and Jillian starts to develope a bizzare affection for this poor girl who has so much responsibility to her strategically inept Overlord and his completely deranged "holy" quest that she can barely keep herself together. So after enough coincidental "visits" to the dungeon, at the last battle, Jillian arrives to make Wanda an offer about getting out. Wanda, surprised, uses a spell, and does mind dominate Jillian to reveal all the tactical information on the final assault from the Jetstone Alliance against Gobwin Knob. Wanda believes she's effectively completely dominated and suppressed the will of Jillian, but Jillian is actually bound by nothing other than her affection for Wanda and her own feelings of confusion regarding what she actually wants. Wanda is basically arrogant enough to completely be unaware of the feelings of the people involved and precisely what they mean, up to and including her own actual feelings, so long hidden under her game face that she's lost touch with them herself.

Do I think that's a correct or accurate assessment? Nope. But I think considering what we've been shown there's at least some possibility that parts of it are true. The Wanda/Jillian/Ansom plotline is central enough to this story that I think there's going to continually be small revelations about it, providing more and more information until it's time to conclude, both the plotline and the battle for Gobwin Knob. Is Jillian's fighting prowess enough to tip the battle in favor of Gobwin Knob should she fight for Wanda (and Wanda's side)? Is her fighting for Ansom make Gobwin Knob's defeat certain? If so, then regardless of what Wanda said about controlling her mind, I think that kind of thing will have to be a choice made by Jillian, and it's a complicated enough choice that it might not be so simple as to choose one side or another.

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Originally Posted by benthehater

I've been trying to think of a way to express a certain element that seems to be common to most of the characters in the story. Very few of them are altruistic. I'd say almost none.

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You forget Janis and Sizemore. And all the other Hippiemancers and Hippiemancers-in-training. ^_^

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Originally Posted by benthehater

Here's a (at least a I hope so) semi plausible scenario.

<insert scenario here, which I won't quote because that would be a uselessly long quote, COUGH COUGH PEOPLE!>

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Interesting suggestion of the start of their relationship. I don't think that's quite how it happened, but there doesn't seem to be anything which makes it implausible.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatum479

You forget Janis and Sizemore. And all the other Hippiemancers and Hippiemancers-in-training. ^_^

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Then there are the Lofty Elves and Altruist Elves, who will be throwing heals for Ansom. Unless that illustration was just Ansom's fantasy, they'll even be wearing cute little nurse dresses while they do it (or at least, the lady elves will, if that's considered a unisex uniform by them then I don't wanna know). Also, I think that Bogroll's gift of armor for Lord Hamster was innocent in its childlike earnestness, not an expression of calculated self-interest.

A few thoughts....

According to Stanley, torture and interrogation are hobbies of Wanda's. So it's quite possible that Wanda was simply doing it "the very hard way" for her own personal amusement....

To support that claim, the yellow of the spell cylinder is the same yellow as the powder Wanda throws at Mung. Mung's spell is to make him forget; Jillian's spell could also make her forget that Wanda had tortured her instead of talking to her. Effective, actually: no one actually knows what happened except her, and what both witnesses know benefited them.

If that's so, then it's probable that Wanda is starting to feel a bond with Jillian....(Randian redemption, anyone?)

Again, Wanda's evil, so all of this is believable.

Easy way vs. very easy way--Wanda wants Jillian to want the easy way: Jillian gives Wanda the information. It's complete and accurate (the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...) and Wanda doesn't need to worry about her morals (such as they are) or the effeciency of the interrogation. But Jillian doesn't even want to do that--she wants it easier. She doesn't want to give any information at all, or maybe she wants to keep back information....Not really important. What matters is that Wanda has gone too far in her brainwashing of Jillian, and made Jillian trust her as a friend. Or close to it, at least. Remember, "Call me Mistress and I will call you Prisoner"--Wanda's not comfortable with how intimate Jillian's gotten, and she doesn't want it to last. But she still wants some level of trust, and that's why she gives the sushi and makes her forget.

So basically, I think that Wanda has been using mind-controlling/altering spells on Jillian as part of her breaking of Jillian's mind, but not directly.

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Originally Posted by Maerad of Pellinor

A few thoughts....

According to Stanley, torture and interrogation are hobbies of Wanda's. So it's quite possible that Wanda was simply doing it "the very hard way" for her own personal amusement....

To support that claim, the yellow of the spell cylinder is the same yellow as the powder Wanda throws at Mung. Mung's spell is to make him forget; Jillian's spell could also make her forget that Wanda had tortured her instead of talking to her. Effective, actually: no one actually knows what happened except her, and what both witnesses know benefited them.

If that's so, then it's probable that Wanda is starting to feel a bond with Jillian....(Randian redemption, anyone?)

Again, Wanda's evil, so all of this is believable.

Easy way vs. very easy way--Wanda wants Jillian to want the easy way: Jillian gives Wanda the information. It's complete and accurate (the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...) and Wanda doesn't need to worry about her morals (such as they are) or the effeciency of the interrogation. But Jillian doesn't even want to do that--she wants it easier. She doesn't want to give any information at all, or maybe she wants to keep back information....Not really important. What matters is that Wanda has gone too far in her brainwashing of Jillian, and made Jillian trust her as a friend. Or close to it, at least. Remember, "Call me Mistress and I will call you Prisoner"--Wanda's not comfortable with how intimate Jillian's gotten, and she doesn't want it to last. But she still wants some level of trust, and that's why she gives the sushi and makes her forget.

So basically, I think that Wanda has been using mind-controlling/altering spells on Jillian as part of her breaking of Jillian's mind, but not directly.

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I don't know what Wanda cast on Jillian but I doubt it was a forgetting spell. Jillian is shown having injuries from the torture and that kind of thing would be hard to overlook. As to Wanda's motivation... maybe she's just a sadist, and taking the "easy way" would spoil her fun? :smallamused:

If the brainwashing theory is true (and I've no reason to doubt it isn't) then it's possible that Jillian may have allowed herself to be captured. She thinks this battle will seal Stanley's defeat and she wants to get Wanda out before the city is taken. However, Jillian doesn't know about Parson, who has a real chance to score a victory for Stanley after a long string of defeats, and thus Wanda wants to wring every last bit of Ansom's plans out of her. Dare I say Wanda has found hope?

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Originally Posted by benthehater

Anyway, onto Wanda. Right now, I think that we've got too much vague stuff to make a clear determination of what's making her tick, and likewise with Jillian as well.

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Oh, absolutely. The really hard part is determining how much of Wanda's show of sympathy for Jillian is simply mind-game technique, and how much (if any) is genuine.

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Here's a (at least a I hope so) semi plausible scenario.

Jillian is captured the first time, and Wanda tortures/interrogates her. During said events, Jillian isn't really even suffering that much pain because Wanda's actually quite inept at torture. [!] Wanda complete fails to connect emotionally to other people, complete fails to understand other peoples' way of thinking, and just can't seem to get inside Jillian's head. In this botch of an interogation, Wanda actually winds up doing a lot of talking between ineffective whippings that could only be delivered by a class as martial as a caster, and Jillian starts to develope a bizzare affection for this poor girl who has so much responsibility to her strategically inept Overlord and his completely deranged "holy" quest that she can barely keep herself together. So after enough coincidental "visits" to the dungeon, at the last battle, Jillian arrives to make Wanda an offer about getting out. Wanda, surprised, uses a spell, and does mind dominate Jillian to reveal all the tactical information on the final assault from the Jetstone Alliance against Gobwin Knob. Wanda believes she's effectively completely dominated and suppressed the will of Jillian, but Jillian is actually bound by nothing other than her affection for Wanda and her own feelings of confusion regarding what she actually wants. Wanda is basically arrogant enough to completely be unaware of the feelings of the people involved and precisely what they mean, up to and including her own actual feelings, so long hidden under her game face that she's lost touch with them herself.

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Hmmm... I agree with the parts about Wanda not being very good at connecting emotionally to other people or understanding what makes them tick. I suggested on another thread that this (in addition to not being a military strategist) is why she leaves Parson with the job figuring out the best way to "work with" the hook Jillian gives them on Ansom rather than making any suggestions herself (of course, that could change in the next scene we see her).

Edit: Parson's Klog #4 gives us an alternative explanation for Wanda dumping this in Parson's lap and letting him figure out what to do with it -- she doesn't want to deal with military details (which would include the mechanics of setting and springing a trap), even if she does know more about them than she lets on.

That said, I think she knows enough "tricks of the trade" to effectively deal with a prisoner during interrogation. I also don't buy the "inept as a torturer" notion -- the difference between an inept torturer and a competent one isn't that the former fails to inflict a lot of pain (any moron can do that), but rather that the former fails to keep the victim conscious/sane/alive for long enough to get useful cooperation.

Also, if being tortured by Wanda were something Jillian could shrug off, why give even the trivial concession of "Yes, Mistress"? (The only explanation I can see is that the "kinky lesbian BDSM couple" theory is true, and that's part of their foreplay. I'm pretty sure Rob and Jamie want to keep that ambiguous, if only because it's more interesting that way; unless and until that changes I don't buy a theory that forces a decision on that question.)

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Originally Posted by Maerad of Pellinor

A few thoughts....

According to Stanley, torture and interrogation are hobbies of Wanda's. So it's quite possible that Wanda was simply doing it "the very hard way" for her own personal amusement....

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That's possible. If so, there might have been a bit of disappointment mixed in with her initial reaction to Jillian's request for the "easy way" (if she were ready to talk, Wanda couldn't really justify taking time for her own amusement under the circumstances -- her side needed every advantage it could get, pronto).

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To support that claim, the yellow of the spell cylinder is the same yellow as the powder Wanda throws at Mung. Mung's spell is to make him forget; Jillian's spell could also make her forget that Wanda had tortured her instead of talking to her. Effective, actually: no one actually knows what happened except her, and what both witnesses know benefited them.

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That raises the question of why she would bother with two different spells to do the same thing, and why one would be applied before the events she wanted the subject to forget and the other applied afterwards.

Also, if Jillian forgot about the torture session, why did she break down in the immediate aftermath? (One possibility: She remembers that she gave Wanda all the information she wanted, but doesn't remember why -- she thinks she just voluntarily sold out her side because Wanda politely talked her into it.)

Edit: That said, I think it's distinctly possible that Wanda has been making Jillian forget parts of her captivity when she's ready to release her so she can go home and learn more useful information (if so, I suspect that she arranges things so that Jillian thinks she legitimately escaped by her own efforts).

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If that's so, then it's probable that Wanda is starting to feel a bond with Jillian....(Randian redemption, anyone?)

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I definitely think there's some bond there, but again it's hard to tell. (For instance, if she later raises an objection to a plan that would put Jillian at particularly high risk, is it because she cares what happens to her or because she wants to preserve a useful asset (including a possible role in some hidden agenda of her own)? She would certainly say that it's the latter (leaving out the "hidden agenda" part, obviously) -- and it would certainly be true in part even if the former is also true in part.)

(Hmmm... nested parentheses just seemed to come naturally when discussing Wanda's agenda. How symbolic.)

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Easy way vs. very easy way--Wanda wants Jillian to want the easy way: Jillian gives Wanda the information. It's complete and accurate (the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...) and Wanda doesn't need to worry about her morals (such as they are) or the effeciency of the interrogation. But Jillian doesn't even want to do that--she wants it easier. She doesn't want to give any information at all, or maybe she wants to keep back information....Not really important. What matters is that Wanda has gone too far in her brainwashing of Jillian, and made Jillian trust her as a friend. Or close to it, at least. Remember, "Call me Mistress and I will call you Prisoner"--Wanda's not comfortable with how intimate Jillian's gotten, and she doesn't want it to last. But she still wants some level of trust, and that's why she gives the sushi and makes her forget.

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I think you're on to something here.

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So basically, I think that Wanda has been using mind-controlling/altering spells on Jillian as part of her breaking of Jillian's mind, but not directly.

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I'm not quite sure what you mean by "not directly", unless it's another version of Scientivore's suggestion (the spell was a mental suggestion that augmented the traditional interrogation methods, but was not enough in itself to make Jillian cooperative).

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Originally Posted by Mogster

I don't know what Wanda cast on Jillian but I doubt it was a forgetting spell. Jillian is shown having injuries from the torture and that kind of thing would be hard to overlook.

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Since the wounds healed without leaving visible traces during the dawn "reset", apparently at the same time the spell (whatever it was) wore off, it would be quite easy to overlook.

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As to Wanda's motivation... maybe she's just a sadist, and taking the "easy way" would spoil her fun? :smallamused:

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As I noted above, that may be so, and on some level Wanda might have been pleased that Jillian wasn't quite ready to talk just yet.

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If the brainwashing theory is true (and I've no reason to doubt it isn't) then it's possible that Jillian may have allowed herself to be captured. She thinks this battle will seal Stanley's defeat and she wants to get Wanda out before the city is taken.

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Good point. If Wanda has been brainwashing Jillian by degrees over multiple captures, it makes sense that Jillian would have enough of a bond to her by now to be concerned that she's in imminent danger of being croaked.

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However, Jillian doesn't know about Parson, who has a real chance to score a victory for Stanley after a long string of defeats, and thus Wanda wants to wring every last bit of Ansom's plans out of her. Dare I say Wanda has found hope?

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The conversation we saw verged on that, but didn't tell us whether Wanda actually explained the result of "this monstrous combination Findamancy/Lookamancy thing". (This is the first mention of "Lookamancy" in connection with the summoning spell, originally described as created by Findamancers and Predictamancers. It's unclear whether this is Wanda not bothering to remember the names of magic types she disdains, or deliberately giving out misinformation for Jillian to take home at her next escape/release.)

Another thought occurs to me: if Jillian's concern for Wanda's well-being was getting in the way of business (i.e. Jillian giving up the information Wanda wanted), Wanda might have chosen to explain to allay that concern. It's not like the existence of the "crazy giant potato man" was going to be a secret for any length of time in any case (heck, Stanley paraded him in front of the troops, any of whom could be captured and interrogated after the next battle), and if the "misinformation" theory is true, mixing it with truths (that would have been revealed anyway) makes it that much more effective.

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Originally Posted by SteveMB

<snip>...Scientivore's interpretation of what Wanda did during this session (a mental suggestion spell not sufficient in itself to make Jillian give up secrets or otherwise comply with anything she didn't really want to do, but making her much more susceptible to torture and psychological manipulation)...<snip>

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Hypnosis! That's the word for it. Sheesh, took me long enough to remember.

I think that Wanda has a hypnotism spell. Following literary tropes, some people (such as Mung) would be readily controlled; others would be naturally more resistant. Attempts to make someone go against their nature would fortify their resistance, but it would still be a useful tool like hypnotic drugs in reducing their resistance to brainwashing (again, going by literary conventions, since this is storytelling not science).

It could be from Thinkamancy or Foolamancy. Since hypnotism is used in stage magic IRL it could also be Stagemancy, in which case it would probably be Carnymancy; that would be in keeping with Wanda's predilection for Fate Magic that doesn't affect herself.

It's still basically the same idea but with more powerful associations for suspension of disbelief. For example, defining it as "hypnosis" implies the possibility of "post-hypnotic suggestions". That works very well with the other theories.

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Originally Posted by SteveMB

(This is the first mention of "Lookamancy" in connection with the summoning spell, originally described as created by Findamancers and Predictamancers. It's unclear whether this is Wanda not bothering to remember the names of magic types she disdains, or deliberately giving out misinformation for Jillian to take home at her next escape/release.)

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Hmmm. Well, we know that the spell used Fate magic. Doesn't mesh if it was Findamancy and Lookamancy since both fall under Erf magic, so unless Rob got his Mancies mixed up, I think you're right. Wanda strikes me as having a very organized mind, though, so I doubt she'd pull a Xykon. Ergo, the latter seems the more likely option. Good catch; I didn't notice that until you pointed it out.

Perhaps the Lookamancy is meant to suggest that Parson comes from their own universe.

Maybe being extraplanar gives Parson some disadvantages that Wanda hasn't mentioned to him yet. Is there an Erfworld equivalent of Banishment?

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Originally Posted by Caledonian

Maybe being extraplanar gives Parson some disadvantages that Wanda hasn't mentioned to him yet. Is there an Erfworld equivalent of Banishment?

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Probably. My money would be on Fate-aligned metamagic (Healomancy) to counter a spell directly.

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Originally Posted by Scientivore

Hypnosis! That's the word for it. Sheesh, took me long enough to remember.

I think that Wanda has a hypnotism spell. Following literary tropes, some people (such as Mung) would be readily controlled; others would be naturally more resistant.

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It certainly fits the trope that grunts would fall into the former category and hero-level characters into the latter. (Hmmm... Bogroll is a fairly major character; perhaps he's more resistant than one would assume from his simple nature, or even because of his simple nature. That might be a reason Wanda sent him away.)

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It's still basically the same idea but with more powerful associations for suspension of disbelief. For example, defining it as "hypnosis" implies the possibility of "post-hypnotic suggestions". That works very well with the other theories.

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Indeed; that opens quite a few avenues for speculation....

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So basically, I think that Wanda has been using mind-controlling/altering spells on Jillian as part of her breaking of Jillian's mind, but not directly.

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I'm not quite sure what you mean by "not directly", unless it's another version of Scientivore's suggestion (the spell was a mental suggestion that augmented the traditional interrogation methods, but was not enough in itself to make Jillian cooperative).

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I did mean that; I should have been more clear.

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That raises the question of why she would bother with two different spells to do the same thing, and why one would be applied before the events she wanted the subject to forget and the other applied afterwards.

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If they were forgetting spells, then they were different spells; one was before and one was after. Maybe the cylinder let her decide what the victim remembered and the dust made the victim forget everything? Or maybe she only had one cylinder....

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Originally Posted by Maerad of Pellinor

If they were forgetting spells, then they were different spells; one was before and one was after. Maybe the cylinder let her decide what the victim remembered and the dust made the victim forget everything? Or maybe she only had one cylinder....

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True; the two could be sufficiently different that one would be better in some situations and the other better in others, so it's useful to have both available. (One minor detail: we know that the dust allows Wanda to decide what the target remembers ("You heard only the screams for mercy."), so that example should be the other way around.)

If Scientivore's "hypnosis" model turns out to be a better fit for what the scroll and/or the dust does, then the difference might be something else altogether. It might be that the scroll takes more time and effort to cast at the moment the magic is used while the dust allows that work to be done in advance so that the magic can be more easily invoked later.

Since they used a scroll for the very expensive, very powerful Perfect Warlord summons, I suspect that the scroll version of Hypnotism is more advanced than the powder version (if that's what they both were). The scroll version appeared to last all night. It probably also had to overcome more resistance since Jillian is a hero unit and Mung appears to be an audience-insertion character (so Wanda could take advantage of our willing suspension of disbelief to hypnotise him more easily).

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Originally Posted by SteveMB

True; the two could be sufficiently different that one would be better in some situations and the other better in others, so it's useful to have both available. (One minor detail: we know that the dust allows Wanda to decide what the target remembers ("You heard only the screams for mercy."), so that example should be the other way around.)

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Actually, it shouldn't; serves me right for being too lazy to read over my post before submitting it. What I meant is that the cylinder makes the subject remember parts of what really happened but not everything, depending on what the caster decides. The powder makes the subject forget everything that really happened and so have an alternate memory. Perhaps it doesn't even supply the memory, but Wanda took advantage of his momentary confusion after the spell was cast (when he had no memory of the past night) to suggest a memory that was easy for him to adopt.

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Since they used a scroll for the very expensive, very powerful Perfect Warlord summons, I suspect that the scroll version of Hypnotism is more advanced than the powder version (if that's what they both were). The scroll version appeared to last all night. It probably also had to overcome more resistance since Jillian is a hero unit and Mung appears to be an audience-insertion character (so Wanda could take advantage of our willing suspension of disbelief to hypnotise him more easily).

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Good point; Jillian /would/ have a higher Will save than Mung....:smallamused: