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So, earlier this day Hades 2 was released in early access.
Plays slightly different from the first one, but the old 'just-one-more-time' is definitely there again.
The only thing I am missing a bit is the snarky dialog that was mostly between Hades and Zagreus in the first part. Everyone here seems so helpful and reaffirming. Let's see how this plays out.
Alright, one more time. Death to Cronos.
I started up the game and suddenly it was six hours later, so early impression is that Hades 2 is still up on the level of the first game.
Nemesis seems to have taken on the "snarky put-downs when you show up in the starting area yet again" role. I agree it doesn't hit the same, but then, the whole point of the first game was making everybody nicer to each other :smalltongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Majiy
The new gods likeare very welcome, and Supergiant nailed the personalities and looks, they're everything I expected.SpoilerApollo, Hestia, and Hephaestus
And yes, I'm definitely looking forward to the full release. There's a few portraits missing (e.g. Charon, Narcissus) and it's taking all my willpower to not binge the thing on EA and ruin the story for myself while it's not complete. But I have Ravenswatch early access to tide me over too :smallbiggrin: judging by the level of polish I'm seeing, Hades 2 isn't that far off, so I can wait!
Looks a lot like Hades 1.5 instead, but even that should be good enough I guess.
I'd say there's definitely new features, like resource management (mana) and crafting, that push it more into sequel territory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cespenar
With that said, they're also taking advantage of the enemy being the Titan of Time to copy-paste old environments from the first one wholesale. Clever buggers.
Spoiler: Second Boss SpoilersI love boss battles that are also a musical number. Loved it in Metal Gear Rising, loved it in Baldur's Gate 3 and I love it with Scylla and the Sirens.
It's almost literally Hades x2 with the angle of having two main runs, but I also don't see using the same core engine is a problem. I didn't need them to rip out all the stuff that worked and try and make the game from scratch again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cespenar
And it's Supergiant's first time not making something that's utterly different from their last project/just about any other game in existence, so they deserve some slack.
I'm of two worlds with the ol' Hades 2.
On the one hand, it's very fun and enjoyable, its characters are entertaining, and playing it with my girlfriend is a really good time! There's aspects of the game that are a little rough, but on the whole I like it, and most of the systems based hiccups go towards selling the idea of being a witch so it works.
It's even got a more interesting plot; Hades 1, I could have told you exactly how the entire game goes from beginning to end simply based off the premises, but for Hades 2 there's a lot of ambiguity and mystery about what, exactly, is going on and what is going to happen, and that's fun!
They also "fixed" the part of Hades 1 that I felt was the weakest aspect of its originality; I just didn't really care for the vocal tracks? Orpheus's songs didn't really do it for me, and Eurydice's song isn't something you can really listen to- the nature of the game makes you pass it by so quickly! Scylla's songs are a much more enjoyable to me way to go about'em!
But on the other hand I do really prefer Supergiant's original IP. The story being something new in Hades 2 and not just a retread of old myths really helps with that, but still.
I also feel like the roguelike aspects of the game get in the way of the story telling a bit. It's not a bad way of dolling out story bit by bit- though as is the case with most things, Hades 2 goes about this better than the original- but it does run the risk of feeling... drawn out?
It also presents a very unique and silly problem that me bringing up will seem like humble bragging but- the first time I got to any area after the first Eris showed up to tell me "no you're not supposed to be here yet you're playing the game too good stop it" and then curse me with absurd damage boosts for the enemy.
I get WHY this is in place. Hades 1 straddled a very thin line between "this run reveals .002 percent of the story so it felt like a waste" and "oops you beat the game too good so now you don't get the full and complete story the way we want" but still, it IS kinda rude to be told no, I don't get to beat Chronos, because I'm... too good at the game I guess (really I think I just got lucky, but that's an argument for another time).
It isn't even perfect, last night I got a voice clip of Mel mentioning she needs a resource that I didn't even know I needed yet! Oops! I knew I'd need it eventually because of watching my girlfriend play (who has put far more time into the game and unlocked more stuff, going wide while I go deep) but still, oops!
This doesn't really mean anything. It is ultimately a very good game and watching my girlfriend play it is super fun, playing the game for her to watch while she does tasks is super fun, and over all Supergiant's "worst" game is in my opinion still leagues above basically everything else put out there (Worst being Hades 1 imo).
I just kinda hope they go for more original IP again next. I feel it is a bit more creatively interesting.
I haven't had the chance to play Hades 2 yet, but I've watched a few hours of streams, and I'm in two minds. The mechanics and gameplay seem good, and I like the new biomes and boons. On the other hand, Mel's conversations are way less interesting than Zagreus's. Listening to Zagreus talk with Hades was fun. Listening to Mel talk to Hecate is boring.
The central premise also feels weird, and clashes with the roguelite structure in a way that Hades 1's plot didn't. Mel keeps saying "Death to Chronos" . . . but Chronos seemingly can't kill her, and it doesn't seem as though she can kill him. Presumably that's in the part of the story that hasn't actually been written into the game yet?
Mel uses shadow magic to quick-escape whenever she's close to death, and her Chtonic heritage means killing her isn't exactly EASY and doesn't exactly stick. I haven't beaten Chronos yet tmyself but I'd imagine his being a time god (among other things) means that any death on him is going to be reverted by a flick of his wrist to send some personal time-streams backwards a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saph
And I mean, the entire conceit is that Chronos, a man who the gods chopped into pieces and locked away in the deepest reaches of Hades, has come back from the dead. It's not out of turn that these characters are able to avoid death, even if the slogan of the silver sisters is "we're gonna cut that bitch".
It is likely that the game will take multiple winning runs to "complete" like the first game, which may or may not be implemented in this early access period, and that even post the ending there will be some conceit that allows the game to continue because as a roguelike the entire point is not to win it, but to see how jacked you get in the attempt.
Yeah, yeah, I know, you can come up with the usual justifications. It just makes the game feel a bit incomplete at the moment. I've seen one streamer beat Chronos, and the ending screen is "you won! but, uh, it doesn't actually accomplish anything, for . . . reasons . . . anyway, now you die." Like I said, I'm guessing the final version of the game will have more content as far as that goes. My bigger issue is that compared to Hades 1, the characters just feel a bit dull.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaZodiac
I quite like Mel's relationship with Hecate, they clearly care a lot about each other, but there's still a sadness to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saph
Mel and Chronos can both cheat death. They're both immortals to begin with but Mel has a recall spell that triggers when she dies and Chronos has time magic that enhances his existing regeneration and both sides are looking for a way to break the stalemate and put the other down for good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saph
I'm definitely with Zodi in my feelings on Eris. It feels pretty bad to have a mechanic that tells you, "Hey, stop being good at the game. We expected you to die, so here's a stacking penalty that's really going to ruin your run." Early on I forgot about it enough that I was shocked at how much more difficult they made the sequel. Then when she stopped showing, I immediately killed Chronos on the same run. They do throw you a bone in that she won't show up before any area you've fully cleared in previous run, so if you do manage to struggle through her "blessing" and still beat the boss, the area becomes much less taxing on subsequent runs. It just feels like a very kludgey way to extend the gameplay loop.
Otherwise, it's more Hades. The art is beautiful and the game is remarkably polished for Early Access. There's a few issues with conveyance in fights and a few enemy types I think need to be semi-redesigned, but it's a solid package. The only real knocks I have against it is that I think they went a bit too wide with the weapon ideas in their desire to be different from Zagreus' kit and that it's still Hades at the end of the day. There's a nagging feeling like I've done this all before. Though, I guess when the villain is Time itself, that's a theming success?
Shout out to the new Magic mechanic which adds a much needed dimension to the combat and is probably my favorite addition to the game.
Spoiler: Regarding anyone who's curious about the Mel/Chronos time loopAfter you kill him once, you unlock an incantation that claims to "suppress his ability to rewind time." The material amounts are a mystery and it probably isn't usable in Early Access right now, but Melinoe's witchery seems to be the nail in his coffin.
I actually didn't realize this was a placeholder at first! When I ran into Narcissus, I thought he was deliberately wearing an all-concealing hood and robe to stop people from becoming captivated by his beauty and annoying him... and as for Charon, it's not too far off from how he looked in the first game. Then I started running into others, and realized what was going on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyren
Them not rehashing things was one of the reasons they were one of the best indie devs out there IMHO, but never mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoVid
I agree, I was really looking forward to seeing what sort of completely out-of-left-field craziness they'd think of after Hades.
To quote one of the Daelkyr in D&D, "What could be more unexpected than... more of the same!"
I really love a lot of what they've done with this game, but I will say it feels a lot more "stock greek myth inspired fantasy" plot than the first game did.
Hades 1 could be pretty standard modern greek myth reinterpretation too, but it felt a lot fresher. I don't know, maybe trash like Wrath of the Titans and the Percy Jackson movies exhausted my tolerance for Titanomachy 2: Electric Boogaloo as a concept (although for the record this is easily my favourite Titanomachy 2)
Thing is because I've been watching others play I think I've guessed the hook. And it's gonna be awesome.
Well, this is a bit emberassing. I've played the game almost every day since it was published. And today I realize that you can keep holding dash to sprint indefinitely. This now feels like a completely different game now. It is so, so much easier to dodge area-attacks and keep enemies at distance.
Well, can't blame the game, it even clearly instructs this move when facing Skelly.
By the way, the "I'm Gonna Claw Out Your Eyes" song is such a fun song that I always try to isolate the singer by killing the sirens first.