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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Several exarch powers are phrase as "The Exarch and his squad" rather than "everybody in the unit"- not sure if this makes a difference for other aspects.
The Shining Spear one says "unit" not "squad" though.
If an Autarch is allowed to have it, should a Farseer get it? If not, why not?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
*About Autarchs and MotF*
Hmm.... some very good points, but that's also comparing Autarchs to Masters of the Forge and whether or not they work well within their retinues.
For ease and variance of use, on paper the Beamer is still probably a better weapon for killing Monoliths regardless of whether or not an Autarch is more use to a unit of Jetbikers than a MotF is to a similar unit. :smallsmile:
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Because the Exarch gives the ability to everyone in the unit. If the Autarch is in the unit, he would gain the rule.
Unfortunately, this is not what the Codex says.
If you upgrade to include an Exarch with this power, it says the unit "HAS" the ability because the Exarch is with them, not that they are "given" it specifically by the Exarch - which, by extension, means that the Exarch does not give anything to other characters that join the squad.
This remains consistent with the Main RUle Book, otherwise the same problem would be more widespread, and other - newer - Codices seem to agree with me.
The Heroic Intervention rules under Vanguard Veterans, for example, state that 'the Vanguard Unit' has the rule if they are equipped with Jump Packs, but that it specifically can't be used if joined by an IC - even though the IC has become part of 'the Unit'.
This, presumably, is for the same reason as the Exarch power (they HAVE the power because they have the equipment, not that they are given it specifically by their equipment) but is better worded.
I am not, however, familiar with the FAQ you are mentioning, so I will not go so far as to say that I am unequivocally right in this matter. By and large though, the MRB and Codex describe it as working this way, and as most people have those to go back to during such periods of confusion then those are the ones that I would stand by, specific examples of Hawks and Warp Spiders aside.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Sorry for replying to posts so far back, but I was gone since Friday, and these picked my interest.
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Originally Posted by
Ricky S
(There are of course always exceptions but I generally hate younger players as they are annoying as hell and control the game).
Hmmm... at least half, if not more, of the people I play with at my Games Workshop are in the 13-15 years range, and so far I've made pretty much only good experiences with them - they all were polite, mature, knew the rules and had (for the most part) painted armies, some of them quite nicely even. :smallconfused:
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Originally Posted by
Selrahc
Vindicare's used to be better back in 3rd edition. Back when sergeants had full access to the armoury. My Khorne sergeants used to be around 65 points each, and were the most dangerous part of the unit. Two vindicare shots could repay his cost and substantially blunt my assault. Of course my men were in rhinos so he wasn't guaranteed to get the shot, but still...
How is that any different than these days? My Khorne Berserker 'sergeant' costs 21(a berserker)+15(champion)+25(power fist)=61 points, and one could put even more equipment on him if one wanted to. My Noise Marine 'sergeant' costs even more - 20(a Noise Marine)+15(champion)+15(power weapon)+15(doomsiren)+5(sonic blaster)=70 points.
So, how did you manage to make your Khorne sergeants cheaper? :smalltongue:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Hm. So last week I asked the clerk at my FLGS about the Witchhunters and Daemonhunters being discontinued or revamped. She didn't know anything about it, though she did say they weren't scheduled to get anymore WH or DH stuff, or at least the Codexes. She said her husband was well informed on such things, though, being a massive 40K fanatic and even being a playtester for some RPG companies. So she said she'd see what he could dig up...
Yesterday me and my SM buddy went to our FLGS so he could try to figure out what SM stuff to get with his B-day cash (he decided to wait until he had a better idea), and she informed us that her husband had found information suggesting the Codexes were, in fact, being revamped. IIRC, she said they'd be released in either the Fall or Spring. I'm not too sure what his sources were, but she said they were reliable. So yeah, according to my FLGS, the Inquisition isn't getting the Squat treatment.
Still, I'm not fully convinced. :smallconfused: While its comforting to hear that from them, I'm not fully convinced that their info is solid. Of course, I could be wrong, and he may be an info ninja who knows stuff before its announced. XD
At any rate, I'm really liking the idea of picking up Daemonhunters as allies, and even a full army later on. So I'm probably gonna pick up the Codex at my FLGS before someone else does, and then start work on them this summer. Granted, if I start on them now, and they get revamped, I've got outdated units and whatnot. But I'm sure that's easy to fix... :smalltongue:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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So, how did you manage to make your Khorne sergeants cheaper?
Cheaper doesn't actually matter that much. I slightly underestimated costs, but I would argue that a 3rd edition Khorne sergeant was a *lot* more powerful. And so headshotting him was a much more valuable service.
Khorne Champion from 3rd edition.
Gear:Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Strength, Axe of Khorne, Mark of Khorne, Feel No Pain, Furious Charge.
Cost: 75 points.
Impact: 6 strength 6 Initiative 5 attacks on the charge, with a power weapon that gives bonus attacks for every 6 to hit. 5 strength 5 initiative 4 attacks if charged.
Options: He can also take meltabombs or a power fist to break tanks, but I generally didn't. Or master craft his weapons and add spiky bits. Or take terminator armour for more survivability. Or pimp himself out in a dozen other different ways. Access to the armoury completely changed the way sergeants operated. Some players went way overboard on this stuff. My set up is a relatively low defence, high offence, but you could go a lot further. A T5, 2 wound, 2+ armour save 5+ invulnerable save champion with feel no pain is possible in the chaos codex(82 points, or just 51 for a 2+/5+ T5 champion). My chosen champions were bastions of experimentation for this kind of thing. Shooting them could well net an enterprising assassin his points cost back in a single bullet.
This isn't the only codex to offer that type of thing either. Space Marine players could buy bonus attacks, advanced equipment, master crafted weapons and artificer armour. And if you wanted to stop your opponent rolling over your unit in one turn of combat with no losses, barelling into the next squad and wiping them out on your turn it was fairly advisable for shooting armies to invest in a few close combat sergeants to hold them up.
The expensive chaos sergeants would make a good target for Vindicare. But they are a dying breed. Any shooting based army does not really need to upgrade their sergeants at all.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
Yesterday me and my SM buddy went to our FLGS so he could try to figure out what SM stuff to get with his B-day cash (he decided to wait until he had a better idea), and she informed us that her husband had found information suggesting the Codexes were, in fact, being revamped. IIRC, she said they'd be released in either the Fall or Spring. I'm not too sure what his sources were, but she said they were reliable. So yeah, according to my FLGS, the Inquisition isn't getting the Squat treatment.
I know a new codex and just the basic Sisters becoming plastic would get my interest in the army...but that's a horse we've given the once-over about a dozen times.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
she informed us that her husband had found information suggesting the Codexes were, in fact, being revamped. IIRC, she said they'd be released in either the Fall or Spring.
Presumably the same information the rest of us have? :smallconfused:
GW Blackshirts haven't said anything to me about it. Besides stuff that we already know (new 3-up GKs have been spotted, stock is being run-down, etc.); They might be getting revamped (sometimes things don't get past 'development'), but, no promises on when things are being released.
Also, since you're working across hemispheres; I have no idea when 'Fall' (we call it 'Autumn') and Spring (we call it 'Spring' :smallwink:) is.
If it's July and November respectively, then yes, that's what the rest of us have heard. Although it's more likely to be early next year that we see a new 'Inquisition'.
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Originally Posted by
Wraith
Hmm.... some very good points, but that's also comparing Autarchs to Masters of the Forge and whether or not they work well within their retinues.
Which is how the game actually works, so I saw no reason not to include '...and work well with other units...'. But, by no means was that the focus of the post. The Focus was that Autarchs were just all-round better than a MotF for the same points. And has Haywire Grenades.
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This remains consistent with the Main RUle Book, otherwise the same problem would be more widespread, and other - newer - Codices seem to agree with me.
Newer Codecies don't change Old Codecies if the old ones are still in play. Everyone knows that.
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The Heroic Intervention rules under Vanguard Veterans, for example, state that 'the Vanguard Unit' has the rule if they are equipped with Jump Packs, but that it specifically can't be used if joined by an IC - even though the IC has become part of 'the Unit'.
Space Marine rules are not Eldar rules. Again, you'll notice that it is specifically stated for ICs. A similar power - Shadowstrike - needs to specifically exempt an Autarch, wheras the other powers don't. Why not? :smallconfused:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Like I said, I didn't put much faith in what she told me. Which is why I want to go ahead and get into Daemonhunters as soon as I can, rather than waiting for a revamp that may never happen. :smalltongue:
So, who's up for a random discussion topic? :smallbiggrin:
I've seen a lot of cool objective markers and tokens on the GW website that people have created for various things. A fallen Space Marine, two wounded Guardsmen behind a wall, an Ork squig pen, piles of skulls to represent wounds for Chaos units, et cetera... And I was just wondering what sort of things you guys use or have created. :smallconfused:
I personally don't have any markers or objectives, other than various bits of sprue or bitz. But I have a few ideas for some nifty things, like a Space Marine covering a fallen battle-brother, or an overrun Imperial Guard heavy weapon's nest. Maybe a Pile 'O Dakka for my Orks or something, if I have the bitz left over... :smallamused:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
I personally don't have any markers or objectives, other than various bits of sprue or bitz. But I have a few ideas for some nifty things, like a Space Marine covering a fallen battle-brother, or an overrun Imperial Guard heavy weapon's nest. Maybe a Pile 'O Dakka for my Orks or something, if I have the bitz left over... :smallamused:
A bunch of Space Marine sprues have banner-poles on them designed to go onto Sergeants' backpacks. I think they look stupid, so I put the Banners on bases and use them as Markers. I also use the things (people assume that they're Homers or Beacons) on the Terminator sprues as more Markers.
For my Imperial Guard, anyone decent has a metric s*load of extra Heavy Weapons. For which I made a few piles of guns. Command Squads also come with a 'wounded' guardsman. I use those too.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Newer Codecies don't change Old Codecies if the old ones are still in play. Everyone knows that.
I'm not saying that they're changed, I'm saying that they're the same. That's why it'd make sense.
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Space Marine rules are not Eldar rules. Again, you'll notice that it is specifically stated for ICs. A similar power - Shadowstrike - needs to specifically exempt an Autarch, wheras the other powers don't. Why not? :smallconfused:
No, but it's the same situation; a seemingly appropriate Character trying to join a unit and still not getting the benefit.
Codex Eldar is the same as Codex Space Marines is the same as the Main Rule Book - it's not coincidence, it's deliberate so that Codices don't deliberately contradict the rules and confuse Players. I don't understand why you're so suspicious of this. :smalltongue:
Shadowstrike is specific probably because the designers didn't want you to be able to Infiltrate the Autarch. Or because the Autarch cannot Infiltrate under his own power, unlike Deep Striking. Or because of the fluff, in which Infiltrators have to be quiet and stealthy whereas the Autarch needs to be seen and communicate clearly. *shrugs* It alone is the exception, the rest seem to conform just fine.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Killcannons work best when you've got a Battlewagon carting around Lootas, or even just giving your Lootas extra protection. Since apparently there's no rule stating that passengers inside a vehicle can't shoot if a vehicle shoots an Ordnance weapon (maybe because it doesn't come up much, and they didn't include the rule?).
Oooh, never thought of that. That's nice.
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Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
Hm. So last week I asked the clerk at my FLGS about the Witchhunters and Daemonhunters being discontinued or revamped. She didn't know anything about it, though she did say they weren't scheduled to get anymore WH or DH stuff, or at least the Codexes.
Man game store people really don't know any more than we do. Not even GW blackshirts, until they actually get the black box.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
I don't see why they would know - most are just part-time workers who don't care too too much about the rules of secrecy. Much easier to just keep everybody in the dark.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
They could have connections that we wouldn't know about.
Maybe they know a guy who knows a guy who works with the GW IP and thus works with GW employees who told him about the codex.
That is all it takes.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Like I said, the guy's a playtester for RPGs, so he has some connections in the tabletop industry... Though I'm still hesitant to not take any unofficial info with a grain of salt. :smalltongue:
Another random question: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers - yay or nay? :smallconfused:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Not worth it if you're using Inducted Guard/Inquisition Allies. Guardsmen are better. But when you're doing straight up Daemonhunters, you need them for the bodies they put on the table.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
On page 21 of the Eldar codex it does specifically note that Exarch powers only affect Aspect Warriors and Autarchs in the squad with the Exarch. I'd assume this means Hit and Run works with an Autarch.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
For CSM, I've been considering a mixed unit, Plasma and Flamer or Plasma Gunand Melta. Anyone have any experience with this? It any good?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
What do you fight the most? Horde infantry, regular infantry, light vehicles, or heavy vehicles?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
What do you fight the most? Horde infantry, regular infantry, light vehicles, or heavy vehicles?
If we're talking all-comers probably the best way of doing things would be plasma/flamer and melta/melta.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Lycan 01
I've seen a lot of cool objective markers and tokens on the GW website that people have created for various things. A fallen Space Marine, two wounded Guardsmen behind a wall, an Ork squig pen, piles of skulls to represent wounds for Chaos units, et cetera... And I was just wondering what sort of things you guys use or have created. :smallconfused:
I personally don't have any markers or objectives, other than various bits of sprue or bitz. But I have a few ideas for some nifty things, like a Space Marine covering a fallen battle-brother, or an overrun Imperial Guard heavy weapon's nest. Maybe a Pile 'O Dakka for my Orks or something, if I have the bitz left over... :smallamused:
I used the tops of Chaos Icons stuck onto bases for my objectives. (Just thought I would share that)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Partof1
For CSM, I've been considering a mixed unit, Plasma and Flamer or Plasma Gunand Melta. Anyone have any experience with this? It any good?
In my experience I'd go Melta and a Flamer, because you can move and still fire both at full range and then assault, whereas the Plasma gun has a better range but will be no better if it moves and prevents you from assaulting. Mind you, unless you're fasing a horde army I'd go for two meltas, if it is a horde I'd go for two flamers.
Another CSM themed question: is a Daemon Weapon worth the risk? I'n my last two games my Lord has caused 5 wounds to himself, compared to none from the enemy, in one game three consecutive 1's took him out of the game without making an attack. I know this is really just a run of bad luck, but it still seems like Daemon Weapons (especially Deathscreamers) are too much of a risk to waste points on.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Copper8642
On page 21 of the Eldar codex it does specifically note that Exarch powers only affect Aspect Warriors and Autarchs in the squad with the Exarch. I'd assume this means Hit and Run works with an Autarch.
/sigh
After explaining my stance for like, ten minutes, and how I thought that all Powers should affect Autarchs, the GW Blackshirt (who plays Eldar), just looked at me, and just turned to that page.
Turns out I was right. I just didn't know it. :smallamused:
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Originally Posted by
banjo1985
I know this is really just a run of bad luck, but it still seems like Daemon Weapons (especially Deathscreamers) are too much of a risk to waste points on.
It's really just bad luck. Unless you're running the Khorne weapon. Don't run the Khorne weapon.
Daemon Weapons are actually really, really good if you get to use them.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Yeah, that's what I thought...I'll hold off the Deathscreamer I think, so I don't have two chances to hurt myself every turn. Even my dice can't role 1's all the time....right? :smalltongue:
Khorne Daemon weapons look broken to begin with, a potential 16 attacks on the charge! But then you see that two dice just mean you've got double the chance of wounding yourself, and losing your most powerful assault figure for that round to boot. Nurgle DWs are okay, but hitting on a 4+ rather than a 3+ seems to nerf them a bit. Slaanesh DWs are horrific character and MC killers...if only I had any Slaanesh stuff in my army. Standard DWs save some points for more Troops and seem to work just as well as the rest.
Recent experience is clouding my judgement. I just need to buy new dice, or remove the curse bestowed on my current set. :smalleek:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
banjo1985
Nurgle DWs are okay, but hitting on a 4+ rather than a 3+ seems to nerf them a bit.
I think you'll find that they wound on 4+ (which they do most of the time anyway at S4). They'll be hitting normally on 3s most of the time on WS5. You also have to know the difference between ranged weapon poison, and poison in Assault.
Since I'm not going to explain the difference because it's all the the Rulebook, I'm just going to say that the Nurgle weapon is quite good. All poisoned Power Weapons are.
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Slaanesh DWs are horrific character and MC killers...if only I had any Slaanesh stuff in my army.
You know you can have whatever you want, right?
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Standard DWs save some points for more Troops and seem to work just as well as the rest.
Since you're not being forced to pay extra points for a Mark, Undivided Daemon Weapons are actually the most points-efficient choice. So, that's a plus if you like Math-Hammer.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
I believe the Math-hammer actually put the Undivided Weapon as the best for everything T4 and below. It was even with the Nurgle Weapon at T5, and only got worse after that. Obviously, this doesn't take into account the ID effect of the Slaanesh weapon.
I'd personally go for the Slaanesh weapon, if only because the actual job of busting up hard things should be done by your Winged Warptime Daemon Prince, who is probably better at just about everything compared to a Chaos Lord.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
You know you can have whatever you want, right?
He's probably trying to have it themed.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Partof1
For CSM, I've been considering a mixed unit, Plasma and Flamer or Plasma Gun and Melta. Anyone have any experience with this? It any good?
It's usually better to specialize squads and put the same weapon twice on it. If I had to put two different weapons on the squad though, I'd go with Plasma Gun and Melta, because these at least have some overlap in what targets they should be used against (both work against heavy infantry and vehicles).
Personally, I think Plasma Guns are better used on Plague Marines though, because that way the probability you lose your expensive 15-point weapon to overheating is reduced by half thanks to Feel No Pain.
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Originally Posted by
banjo1985
Another CSM themed question: is a Daemon Weapon worth the risk? I'n my last two games my Lord has caused 5 wounds to himself, compared to none from the enemy, in one game three consecutive 1's took him out of the game without making an attack. I know this is really just a run of bad luck, but it still seems like Daemon Weapons (especially Deathscreamers) are too much of a risk to waste points on.
In the last four or five games I've had, my Lord only wounded himself once with his weapon, and that was at a point when it didn't affect the game's outcome anymore anyway. Other than that, my Daemon Weapon has been performing formidably.
I presume you know this, but in case you don't: Note that you may take your Invulnerable save against wounds from the Daemon Weapon rebelling.
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Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
It's really just bad luck. Unless you're running the Khorne weapon. Don't run the Khorne weapon.
I've been wondering how well a Khorne Daemon Weapon might work in conjunction with a Juggernaut. If I remember correctly, the Khorne Daemon Weapon and the Undivided Daemon Weapon perform about equally well against most targets; while the higher failure rate of the Khorne weapon surely plays a major role there, this is mostly due to the higher chance to wound with the Undivided weapon. Now, if all these many attacks the Khorne weapon grants were additionally backed up by +1S (and having two bonus attacks from Mark and Juggernaut is nice, too), the amount of havoc caused should become quite impressive. Of course, it would still be risky (11/36 chance to not fight at all), but it would be funny and it might actually have some benefit, as opposed to the somewhat useless Khorne weapon without Juggernaut.
Of course, there would be the problem how to get the Chaos Lord into combat efficiently then...
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Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
I think you'll find that they wound on 4+ (which they do most of the time anyway at S4). They'll be hitting normally on 3s most of the time on WS5.
WS6. *minor nitpick* :smallwink:
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Originally Posted by
DCGFTW
I'd personally go for the Slaanesh weapon, if only because the actual job of busting up hard things should be done by your Winged Warptime Daemon Prince, who is probably better at just about everything compared to a Chaos Lord.
Other than killing hordes, where the higher amount of attacks a Chaos Lord gets may help the Lord pull ahead.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Shas'aia Toriia
He's probably trying to have it themed.
This. I know it's not the optimal way to play, but I like a coherent looking force and I'm largely a Nurgle and Tzeentch man. Having a Slaanesh Lord in that kind of force just doesn't sit right with me. I fully understand that you can use anything you want, but it's just the way I play.
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I presume you know this, but in case you don't: Note that you may take your Invulnerable save against wounds from the Daemon Weapon rebelling.
Indeed. It seems like they're the only saves I can't make. :smalleek:
Sigh, I'll have to check the rules for exactly how poisoned power weapons work...then I might actually get some use out of my Typhus model.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
banjo1985
Sigh, I'll have to check the rules for exactly how poisoned power weapons work...then I might actually get some use out of my Typhus model.
Poisoned weapons: You always wound on 4+, no matter the Toughness of the target, and if your Strength is higher than the target's Toughness, you may re-roll failed To-Wound rolls. Armour saves apply as usual, which is the only thing that prevents poisoned weapons from being absolutely awesome.
The only thing that is special about poisoned power weapons is that the last part does not apply to them.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
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Originally Posted by
Winterwind
The only thing that is special about poisoned power weapons is that the last part does not apply to them.
And it's what makes Typhus so awesome, since he has a Poisoned Force Weapon. :smallbiggrin: