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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jasdoif
Yeah; I think there'd have to be a personal connection/significance to a five-year-old for a memory to form and persist. I mean, I vaguely remember when the children's book orders when I was in kindergarten got mixed up or something, and I ended up with...something with Pound Puppies in the title. I don't remember what I wanted...something to do with cats, I think?...but I remember not getting what I wanted.
If this was the only hoopla of such magnitude Lien experienced or was exposed to, she might remember the hoopla itself; but remembering it had anything to do with Hinjo would border on the outlandish.
In this case, I'd posit that later in life she'd be able to connect the hoopla she remembered as a child with the heir to the throne (and now actual ruler and commander) she met as an adult.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
As far as the Jirix=former Supreme Leader theory goes, I like it because the idea that Jirix was already familiar with O-Chul when he bet that he'd survive the acid shark amuses me. I do think it's unlikely because the former Supreme Leader didn't seem like the kind of guy to stand in front of a rampaging paladin with an iron bar. I could totally buy that he'd do everything else Jirix has done, though.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grey_Wolf_c
Now, even regular armies tend to be staffed by at least middle-to-upper class, with the lowest classes being set to boarder guard and the like.
Depending on what kind of regular army we're talking about.
Historically, officers came from the landed gentry and (in England anyway) bought their commissions until comparatively recent times. Line infantry, however, could be anything down to the lowest classes, depending on the time period. For example, Wellington said of the British army, "The French system of conscription brings together a fair sample of all classes; ours is composed of the scum of the earth — the mere scum of the earth. It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterwards." But in WW1, the British Army was largely highly educated middle class volunteers.
Border guards were often somewhat elite units of skirmishers and were sometimes composed of mercenary recruits from other nations, commanded by officers of the home country. They got to wear distinctive uniforms and carried special weapons which persist to this day (for instance, the Gurkha Kukri knife for Nepalese serving in the British Brigade of Gurkhas).
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Riarra
As far as the Jirix=former Supreme Leader theory goes, I like it because the idea that Jirix was already familiar with O-Chul when he bet that he'd survive the acid shark amuses me. I do think it's unlikely because the former Supreme Leader didn't seem like the kind of guy to stand in front of a rampaging paladin with an iron bar. I could totally buy that he'd do everything else Jirix has done, though.
I'm more of a fan that Jirix is the former Supreme Leader's protégé/lackey/go-between, secretly controlling the hobgoblins from behind the scenes as he did with the first Supreme Leader.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Darth Paul
Border guards were often somewhat elite units of skirmishers and were sometimes composed of mercenary recruits from other nations, commanded by officers of the home country. They got to wear distinctive uniforms and carried special weapons which persist to this day (for instance, the Gurkha Kukri knife for Nepalese serving in the British Brigade of Gurkhas).
Umm, Gurkhas are Nepalese, from the eastern part of the country to be specific. All the British did was let them use what they were already familiar with (kukris), while teaching them how to use modern cartridge based rifles, pistols and other things (parachutes come to mind).
Also, they weren't a border force originally. Rather, they were internal security, in case somebody got it in their heads to try and repeat the Sepoy Mutiny.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grey_Wolf_c
The Royal Guards tend to be the children of nobility, which the Sapphire Guard used to be but is most definitely not the case for Lien.
Now, even regular armies tend to be staffed by at least middle-to-upper class, with the lowest classes being set to boarder guard and the like.
Grey Wolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peelee
Middle class for officers, lower than that for the grunts, is how I think it generally goes. I have a whole lot to say about that, but not here.
Even in the past, the children of nobility became officers. Even in elite guard units, the actual rank and file were drawn from the lower classes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zyzzyva
I, in fact, did go see the Queen when she visited Canada; I was about four, and still remember it, if not clearly.
(I think Lien is absolutely accurate about Hinjo's age, btw; I just don't think she knows it because of a plate.)
Ahh, but if you live in the country where the Queen normally resides, it's not so memorable. Take the year of the Queen's Silver Jubilee - here in England it was an occasion for national celebration, involving street parties, parades, bunting. I don't remember a single bit of it, although I do vividly remember that year was a record breaking hot summer, and I got sunburnt on my sixth birthday.
I also remember where I was when I heard Elvis died a year later.
Now, no-one start arguing of what MY age is!
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
In the broader sense, they guarded the borders of the British Empire. However, not the place for a RW debate, so that's all for me.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
OK, book arrived and I read it. I'd already read the Therkla and O-Chul stories as PDF, so not much else to say there (although I also think it's a lot easier to assume that Hinjo's age listed in War and XPs is wrong rather than trying to retcon half-a-dozen things to make the stuff match up here, looking at the thread discussion). The additional three stories are delightful litte vignettes that don't add much to the over-arching plot but which are nice to have anyway--I especially love how Rich, in the "Mr Scruffy" story, is able to pack in so much emotion and humour in a story which is (a) drawn in stick figure format, (b) has the main characters entirely as animals and (c) doesn't contain a single word of text!
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Gurkhas are also damned fine cigars, if anyone is ever interested.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
factotum
OK, book arrived and I read it. I'd already read the Therkla and O-Chul stories as PDF, so not much else to say there (although I also think it's a lot easier to assume that Hinjo's age listed in War and XPs is wrong rather than trying to retcon half-a-dozen things to make the stuff match up here, looking at the thread discussion).
Problem is, if we age up Hinjo more than a little, we end up messing up the strip with Lien referring to him as "five years my junior" in Don't Split The Party.
It seems to me like Pier Pressure is very shortly after How The Paladin Got His Scar - since Lien's upbringing in poverty, combined with her slightly disdainful description of Hinjo as a "silver spoon aristocrat", suggest that she's not an aristocrat herself, but a commoner.
And we know from How The Paladin Got His Scar that O-Chul was the first commoner to join the Sapphire Guard. Plus The Giant's commentary describes the stories as being "in reverse chronological order" and Pier Pressure comes before Scar in the book.
I would speculate that, with eleven people resigning, the Sapphire Guard needed to replenish their numbers - with O-Chul recruitment setting the precedent, they were willing to recruit commoners - and Lien was one of the first of the new, post-HtPGHS recruits.
IMO, the simplest fix is to say that, when Gin-Jun said they'd been waiting 22 years - he means they'd been waiting 22 years since they discovered the Crimson Mantle was a powerful magic artifact that they needed to destroy - and that discovery taking place two or three years after The Battle Of Redcloak's Village.
Result - you can have an only just turned 15 year old Hinjo, plus a 19, nearly 20 year old Miko (and Lien in Pier Pressure as well) - so all references to them being teenagers remain correct.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hamishspence
I would speculate that, with eleven people resigning, the Sapphire Guard needed to replenish their numbers - with O-Chul recruitment setting the precedent, they were willing to recruit commoners - and Lien was one of the first of the new, post-HtPGHS recruits.
Since the subject keeps coming up, I think it's important to remember....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Giant
The Sapphire Guard would have been a secret society, separate but overlapping with the general clergy and paladins of the Twelve Gods. All members of the Sapphire Guard are clerics or paladins of the Twelve Gods, but not all paladins of the Twelve Gods were members of the Sapphire Guard. Only those who could be trusted with the secret of the Gate would be inducted. There will likely be more detail in the upcoming O-Chul solo story, which will go out digitally to all Kickstarter backers when it's done but will also certainly be compiled for print someday.
Odds seem high that Lien was a paladin before she was a member of Sapphire Guard...and I don't just say that because combining how Lien (unknowingly) proved herself to the Sapphire Guard with the origin of "Good, not dumb" would make a great setup for another Lien-centered story :smalltongue:
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Maybe - but, the impression I got from How The Paladin Got His Scar was that "teaching right from wrong" was a Sapphire Guard problem - not a Paladin problem - hence Gin-Jun.
Yu being a Sapphire Guard member looking for new recruits, just makes narrative sense to me.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hamishspence
Yu being a Sapphire Guard member looking for new recruits, just makes narrative sense to me.
Sure, and transition details would be extraneous to Pier Pressure.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jasdoif
...
Odds seem high that Lien was a paladin before she was a member of Sapphire Guard...
Really? Because to me it reads like she was just more-or-less your Above Average TeenTM (that is, a Level 1 Commoner with a good array of stats). If they're talking about getting started on inducting her within a week or two, I'm guessing that she started her adventuring career as a Paladin 1 and a member of the Sapphire Guard (or at bare minimum, a cadet/squire/trainee/padawan/whatever-they're-called).
That said, I wouldn't object to a story of her learning the ropes of her new job. :smallsmile:
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grey Watcher
That said, I wouldn't object to a story of her learning the ropes of her new job. :smallsmile:
Possibly relating to the "knocked around in training" bit? Might be a good way to tie in to the main strip.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1032.html
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Fun fact: as of this book, Redcloak and the recurring fighter are the only characters who have appeared in every printed OOTS publication.
Spoiler: Major characters by book absences
Show
-Vaarsuvius is absent from Book 1/2
-Haley, Belkar, and Thog are absent from Book -1
-Eugene is absent from Book 1/2 and the coloring book
-Elan and Durkon are absent from Books -1 and 1/2
-Xykon is absent from Books 0 and 1/2
-MITD and the demon-roaches are absent from Books 0 and D
-Thor is absent from Books D and 1/2
-Miko is absent from Books 5, 0, and the coloring book
-Blackwing, Nale, and Celia are absent from Books 0, -1, and 1/2
-Shojo is absent from Books 0, -1, and the coloring book
-Mr. Scruffy is absent from Books 1, 0, and -1
-Hinjo is absent from Books 1, 0, -1, and the coloring book
-Sabine has only appeared in the 5 main compilations
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gift Jeraff
Fun fact: as of this book, Redcloak is the only character who has appeared in every printed OOTS publication.
Spoiler: Major characters by book absences
Show
-Roy and Vaarsuvius are absent from Book 1/2
-Belkar and Thog are absent from Book -1
-Eugene is absent from Book 1/2 and the coloring book
-Haley, Elan, and Durkon are absent from Books -1 and 1/2
-Xykon is absent from Books 0 and 1/2
-MITD and the demon-roaches are absent from Books 0 and D
-Miko is absent from Books 5, 0, and the coloring book
-Blackwing, Nale, and Celia are absent from Books 0, -1, and 1/2
-Shojo is absent from Books 0, -1, and the coloring book
-Mr. Scruffy is absent from Books 1, 0, and -1
-Hinjo is absent from Books 1, 0, -1, and the coloring book
-Sabine has only appeared in the 5 main compilations
:roy: Page 49 would like to have a word with you. I had to check this because I thought my own memory was faulty.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Giant
:roy: Page 49 would like to have a word with you. I had to check this because I thought my own memory was faulty.
Roy vs. Redcloak ultimate battle confirmed!
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Oh dang. No more fuel for "Redcloak is the real protagonist" posts.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Giant
:roy: Page 49 would like to have a word with you. I had to check this because I thought my own memory was faulty.
And Haley's there as well. Which reduces her Absences list to Start of Darkness. Which I'm pretty sure is also lacking an appearance by Vaarsuvius.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rogar Demonblud
Which reduces her Absences list to Start of Darkness. Which I'm pretty sure is also lacking an appearance by Vaarsuvius.
Someone with V-ish traits (haircut, headband, cloak, pointy ears) is seen from the back during the strips where Eugene is recounting the tale of Xykon's killing Fyron: "Fyron used to give tours of his library".
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
(Hoisted from the "Things you never noticed" thread):
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hamishspence
Good point. So we know Xykon was in the valley around 30 years ago, and he probably abandoned the fortress not long after that time.
I would speculate that the abandonment date coincides roughly with the time he joined up with Redcloak - he "set it up just in case", he went on a trip - he ran into that paladin swamp fortress Redcloak was attacking - and the rest is history.
His last trip there was probably after retrieving Serini's diary:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html
which, it would appear from his reaction in
Start of Darkness:
Spoiler
Show
"There are other gates?!
took place
after the Battle of Lirian's Gate.
So he found the diary, he deciphered one location,
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0197.html
left the diary there, and abandoned the fortress.
Nice analysis!
But I'm replying here in the spoiler thread because that's where I should have put my earlier post (where I'd noticed Xykon saying he'd been in the hobgoblin valley "like 30 years ago" in 148).
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nabcif
I'm replying here in the spoiler thread because that's where I should have put my earlier post (where I'd noticed Cukon saying he'd been in the hobgoblin valley "like 30 years ago" in
148.
On re-checking Start of Darkness:
Spoiler
Show
Xykon "disappeared" 6 years before DCF (hunting down Serini's diary) - and reappeared 3 years before DCF (having found the diary and translated one location).
His comments about the valley having been abandoned for "like, 30 years" and about not having "been here in decades - who knows what might have moved in" suggests he went straight in and out the library (possibly flying in through a window, since it's warded against teleportation?) to drop off the book without having bothered to do any looking around the rest of the tower.
Probably around 3 years before DCF.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Cukon? Shouldn't that be Culpm?
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
So, going from the other Southern Continentites in the second page of 501 and cross-referencing with the map on GDGU page 50...
The first panel people are the hardest to peg down. My best guess is they're in the Rainforest Jungle (I assume it is all three parts broken up by the river, since they also seem like they would have a Lost City).
The second panel is the Ghostlands.
The third panel people almost certainly belong to the Realm of the Dragon (thanks to KrankenWagon for pointing that out).
The fourth panel people I would peg as the Raja Kingdom.
Any other guesses welcome for the first panel. The map pegs it more as a less-developed frontier land with no capital. That could just be poor assumptions on the mapmaker's part, but one would assume that with the Azurites going to them for assistance and counting them as allies, their nation would be more well-known or established.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peelee
The second panel people is the other tie. Honestly, I got nothin' for them, so I'm gonna toss out Keyhidden Isle, why not.
The Ghostlands? The transparent figure in the second panel may be a ghost ruler.
EDIT - Swordsaged by the edit.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hamishspence
The Ghostlands? The transparent figure in the second panel may be a ghost ruler.
EDIT - Swordsaged by the edit.
Yeah, I caught that right before you pointed it out. Thanks, though!
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kish
Cukon? Shouldn't that be Culpm?
......Yes. Yes, that is exactly what I meant.
(Though I'm more embarrassed by the unclosed parenthetical clause.)
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hamishspence
Someone with V-ish traits (haircut, headband, cloak, pointy ears) is seen from the back during the strips where Eugene is recounting the tale of Xykon's killing Fyron: "Fyron used to give tours of his library".
I see, on page 21. My gut reaction says that we should assume it is someone else, unless we have some other confirmation. Working against that though, the Elf's hair and cloak are the same colors as V's in OtOoPCs (comparing grayscale to grayscale). The robes are darker in SoD though. An Elf dressed like V with the same hairstyle doesn't seem impossible, but with the color matches, it does seem more likely that is is actually V.
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Re: Good Deeds Gone Unpunished - The Discussion Thread (Unmarked Spoilers!)
The last panel of the Lien story captures perfectly how I felt the first time I dove a reef (all my SCUBA time before that was in a pool).