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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
-0 Mostly because 32 mediocre RHD and CR 15. And some of the 15 might be the 4 16 HD hp-sponges it spawns on death.
Its a beatstick with ok fly and swim speeds, and some good elemental-type immunities plus fire and electricity. That doesn't cut it against random monsters in the Epic Level Handbook. The damage is poor before level 20, and a good chunk is small amounts of fire and electricity. Immunities to energy types are common at 30+, and if not immune very likely highly resistant. Gargantuan size without burrow or something will often be an issue. I just don't think this can be made to work, even a poorly-optimized T3/T4 level 32 party.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Maybe useful as a backstory gimmick to justify playing four characters at once?
"We used to be an Omnimental, but then we took an arrow in the knee..."
Ok, no.
-0
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
unseenmage
Could one use that spell (Revivify?) that immediately resurrects you on a repeating magic whatever to spam elementals created by your own death?
No mention of controlling those elementals so its doubtful this is a useful strategy.
Though as an elemental being resurrected probably isn't a thing.
Anyway, -0 for being too racial HD heavy.
I don't think Revivify works - invalid type - but an equivalent spell should be researchable.
Elementals can get resurrected, but you'd need True Res, not Raise Dead or Resurrection.
There might be an Elemental-specific spell, too - pretty sure that there is are Revive? Outsider/Undead spells.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
javcs
MM2 does not have an Omnimental. It does have the Spirit of the Land, which had different modes for different elemental manifestations, but it's a Fey.
I'm pretty sure it had some kind of four-elemental-storm monster thing with a similar fluff to the Omnimental ("big scary elemental with all the elements").
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GreatWyrmGold
I'm pretty sure it had some kind of four-elemental-storm monster thing with a similar fluff to the Omnimental ("big scary elemental with all the elements").
Oh. Hmmm.
Looks like MM2 has the Tempest.
24 RHD, CR 16 ... and also underwhelming; only has a fly speed, and it's SLAs have a CL of 9. At least they're at-will.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GreatWyrmGold
I'm pretty sure it had some kind of four-elemental-storm monster thing with a similar fluff to the Omnimental ("big scary elemental with all the elements").
MM2 has the Tempest which is a Gargantuan Elemental with the Air, Earth, Fire and Water subtypes.
Ahh... those sneaky oriental assassins. It's my first time, I think.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
LA -0 on the Omnimental. It has 32 Elemental RHD, terrible stats for its ECL, and generally weak abilities except for the one that only happens when you die. Also this thing is clocked at CR 15, but honestly that seems a little generous. :smallyuk:
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Yeah, nothing to add here. Obvious -0.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Another -0. When it's this obvious, could we have multiple up at once to make it go faster?
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TiaC
could we have multiple up at once to make it go faster?
Having just one interesting monster has been seen to demand a discussion that can easily exceed the time allotment.
Either we have to find someone perfect at predicting monster discussion interest, or we have the current situation -- where we don't risk having two interesting monsters at once.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
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Originally Posted by
Nifft
Having just one interesting monster has been seen to demand a discussion that can easily exceed the time allotment.
Either we have to find someone perfect at predicting monster discussion interest, or we have the current situation -- where we don't risk having two interesting monsters at once.
I agree with your point here, though I feel like cases like this are so glaringly obvious that a second posting could be reasonable.
That said I have exams this week so not sure if extra updates are gonna be a thing.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Inevitability
I agree with your point here, though I feel like cases like this are so glaringly obvious that a second posting could be reasonable.
That said I have exams this week so not sure if extra updates are gonna be a thing.
It's your thread, and your time is at risk if you guess wrong -- so go for it if you feel confident.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Inevitability
I agree with your point here, though I feel like cases like this are so glaringly obvious that a second posting could be reasonable.
That said I have exams this week so not sure if extra updates are gonna be a thing.
Might be reasonable when it's blatantly obvious to shorten the interval between monsters, even if there's only one at a time.
I mean, it's not like there's going to be much more to say about the omnimental, and certainly nobody's going to argue for a change from LA -0, so moving onto the next monster faster than if there was something about it being discussed, seems fairly reasonable to me.
The Lifeleech Otyugh, however, looks like there's probably going to be significant discussion. Could be wrong, but it's certainly not as straightforward a monster to evaluate as some.
Edit: That is, I'm suggesting truncating the normal discussion period after it's clear nobody's discussing it.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Covenant12
-0 Mostly because 32 mediocre RHD and CR 15. And some of the 15 might be the 4 16 HD hp-sponges it spawns on death.
No "might" about it; it's specifically stated the PCs don't get extra XP from killing the spawned elementals because they're included in it's CR.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
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Originally Posted by
danielxcutter
No "might" about it; it's specifically stated the PCs don't get extra XP from killing the spawned elementals because they're included in it's CR.
Which is kind of stupid, IMO, considering that 16RHD Huge Elementals are CR7 on their own, and while not terrible as a level 7 or thereabouts encounter, are (or should be) basically chum at level 15.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
I doubt it'd change the rating, but would anything in the evaluation change if the 4 elemental spawned on death are also considered part of the character and therefore under the player's control?
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
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Originally Posted by
javcs
Which is kind of stupid, IMO, considering that 16RHD Huge Elementals are CR7 on their own, and while not terrible as a level 7 or thereabouts encounter, are (or should be) basically chum at level 15.
So...
Two Huge elementals is a 9th-level encounter.
Four Huge elementals is an 11th-level encounter.
An 11th-level and 14th-level encounter are a 15th-level encounter together (technically, 14+12, but 14+11 is close enough).
The effective CR of the omnimental is 14, and the elementals on death are supposed to add CR 1 to that.
LA -0, goes without saying. Good luck with your exams, Inevitability!
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Randuir
I doubt it'd change the rating, but would anything in the evaluation change if the 4 elemental spawned on death are also considered part of the character and therefore under the player's control?
I wouldn't think so - you have to die to use them.
Death Throes and similar abilities don't help you much.
Maybe if the Omnimental could actively summon elementals without dying it would be useful.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
javcs
I wouldn't think so - you have to die to use them.
Death Throes and similar abilities don't help you much.
Maybe if the Omnimental could actively summon elementals without dying it would be useful.
Play omnimental, kill yourself to split into 4 16hd elementals, have each of those pick leadership to have 4 ECL 14 cohorts.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OgresAreCute
Play omnimental, kill yourself to split into 4 16hd elementals, have each of those pick leadership to have 4 ECL 14 cohorts.
Pretty sure no DM ever would allow that.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OgresAreCute
Play omnimental, kill yourself to split into 4 16hd elementals, have each of those pick leadership to have 4 ECL 14 cohorts.
Pretty sure no DM ever would allow that.
Besides, you're still looking at a minimum ECL for everybody else in the party of 32 - 4x ECL 14s aren't going to hold up at level 32.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
javcs
Pretty sure no DM ever would allow that.
Besides, you're still looking at a minimum ECL for everybody else in the party of 32 - 4x ECL 14s aren't going to hold up at level 32.
Might not be that bad if the rest of your party is ECL 32.
Edit: Darn, I've gotten attacked by japanese spies twice today.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
The Omnimental is clearly a +5! No one would even take a wizard with this thing in play! I can't understand how the consensus is anything less.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
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Originally Posted by
Mike Miller
The Omnimental is clearly a +5! No one would even take a wizard with this thing in play! I can't understand how the consensus is anything less.
In all seriousness, you might get to play four characters after your first (bad) character dies. That's potentially problematic from a spotlight-hogging perspective... and then you might make each of your four characters take Wild Cohort and Leadership and Dragon Cohort. That would be ineffective at the given level, but really annoying in terms of table-time.
Alternately, you might be able to get someone to play a Heart Elemental and then you'd have a truly iconic team in just two players.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Inevitability
I agree with your point here, though I feel like cases like this are so glaringly obvious that a second posting could be reasonable.
It makes perfect sense when the entries are connected in some way (different forms of one creature, multiple giants, all age categories of a dragon, etc). I'm not sure the sense is as perfect when completely different creatures come up.
...Though creative time permitting, I'd think that a greatly reduced gap between monsters would make perfect sense with "duh" monsters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Randuir
I doubt it'd change the rating, but would anything in the evaluation change if the 4 elemental spawned on death are also considered part of the character and therefore under the player's control?
On one hand, splitting one PC into four would be potentially disruptive. On the other hand, they'd be so weak relative to the party (even if we reduce the HD bloat) that any disruption caused by them would be minor.
It might make some unique edge-case builds possible, and would definitely make omnimental PCs unique, but it wouldn't boost their power much.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
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Originally Posted by
danielxcutter
I meant at their CR. I think they're CR 15...?
Oh, wow. I figured it was, like CR20 or so. That's even lower than I expected. :smalleek:
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Celestia
Oh, wow. I figured it was, like CR20 or so. That's even lower than I expected. :smalleek:
I think most elementals have a poor RHD to CR ratio. Elemental RHD aren't great, and they usually don't have very good features.
I think the Elemental Weirds probably have the best ratio, and their CR 12 is a freaking lie, no matter that they only have 15 elemental RHD.
I don't care how bad elemental RHD are or that they're effectively immobile - nothing that has the racial casting of an 18th level sorcerer plus access to an cleric elemental domain and a second domain is remotely a CR 12. Okay, sure, Weirds aren't really supposed to be a combat encounter, being divinatory/oracular sources, but still, 18th level sorcerer casting does not a CR 12 make by any sort of reasonable standard I can think of.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
In which I turn out to be still alive.
Anyways: the lifeleech otyugh, which at first glance seems like another entry in the MM3's proud line of 'MM monsters with more HD and one weird quirk'.
However, unlike the regular otyugh this critter is actually interesting. All stats, especially strength, have received a huge boost. Furthermore, the lifeleech has much better speed, more natural attacks that all hit harder, higher AC, fast healing 5, and an ability that lets you freely heal from spells cast on others. The last ability isn't that significant, but getting a free Heal every time the party cleric casts it on someone is nice. (Side quandry: does a slain lifeleech otyugh get raised if a nearby cleric casts Raise Dead?)
However, 9 aberration HD is an awful lot, and the creature's traits are in my opinion not impressive enough to justify +0 LA. -0 LA, though in a 'not terrible but insufficient' way rather than a 'completely unplayable' way.
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Re: The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Inevitability
[CENTER]Otyugh, Lifeleech
In which I turn out to be still alive.
If that's a problem, maybe try some leeches?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Inevitability
However, unlike the regular otyugh this critter is actually interesting. All stats, especially strength, have received a huge boost. Furthermore, the lifeleech has much better speed, more natural attacks that all hit harder, higher AC, fast healing 5, and an ability that lets you freely heal from spells cast on others. The last ability isn't that significant, but getting a free Heal every time the party cleric casts it on someone is nice.
It's got a +8 bonus to Wisdom -- it could just *be* the Cleric, or perhaps the Ur-Priest / Apostle of Peace.
I like the Eberron adaptation notes: it would make a pretty spiffy mount.
Even with Ur-Priest on the table, though, it's got too many HD.
Verdict: LA -0, a few too many HD.