Then try a Birdo Icon. That outta be fun.
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Then try a Birdo Icon. That outta be fun.
I missed this thread.
I'm the daughter of a wonderful man, who just happens to be a church of england priest. (let's leave the religion at that.) Because of this, I grew up with some very serious hangups about some of the feelings I had; they made me feel very guilty.
I didn't get past that until I had already been married for 5 years, and I told my husband I was bisexual. He took it...very, very well. In fact, a year later. when he discovered I had a crush on one of my best friends, he helped set me up with her. The three of us are still together, almost 7 years later.
*sigh*
I'm really having to force myself to write this. I don't want to, but that's just my rampant indecision messing with me again, wondering if this is really a good idea, or maybe I should try and deal with it on my own, and people don't need to listen to my problems, and blah blah blah.
But I know it's probably better to get things out in the open, so people can help me and understand how I'm feeling and thinking. So here it is.
I'm getting confused again.
My rational mind tells me I'm just being silly and everything, and gives perfectly logical reasons for what confuses me, but we all know just how well that deals with emotions: IE, not at all.
Now that I'm no longer... extremely aware of the revelation I had about my transgender identity, things have become, well, normal again. Nothing feels different or seems different; it's just like it has been, really. It's probably silly of me to feel a huge difference from a mental revelation and little to no change of lifestyle, or to expect some kind of change just to randomly happen, but I do. Of course, because the world doesn't work like that, nothing has happened at all.
Well, except my mother and father finding out. And then my mother telling my brother 'on accident' because it 'just came up' and she 'couldn't help it.'
Question to self: When she's told me so many secrets that other people had told her and entrusted her with, why did I ever expect her to keep mine safe from everyone else?
For the most part, eighteen years of habits and patterns seem to be taking their expected toll, keeping me on the same route and sending me back into the dullness where I was before- what I've come to consider as my grudging acceptance of the way my life is.
Anyways, back on topic.
It all just kind of makes me worry. Was I really right in my revelation? IS this who I am, or was I just freaking out horribly? Were my happy thoughts and changes induced by other causes than my self realization (and my few attempts to act on them), or would it be natural for them just to fade away after a while?
I feel like I should see a psychologist (psychiatrist? I can never remember the difference...) but I'm really kind of nervous and unsure about actually doing so. I've never gone to someone like that before, and I don't know what to expect- it's all pretty scary. Not to mention I'm really stingy (especially in medical areas, unfortunately) and don't want to have to pay anyone. On the other hand, here I am going through an unsure time again, where I have no idea what to expect or even how to deal with what I'm going through. Honestly, I feel like I could use help.
I can guess already that I will be encouraged to go see someone, but I'm not sure how much that will alleviate my fear. It's silly, I know, but it's there; I'm just too frightened to want to carry through with seeing someone even as I realize I probably need it.
Well, Vael, you're right. I'm definitely going to tell you to see a professional. You need to look at it this way: if you really are transgendered, then seeing a therapist is an unavoidable fact of life. I understand the need to be tight with money as well as anyone else, but this is one of those things where it's "the sooner the better."
I think doubt is a thing that comes naturally to a lot of people's minds. And, I also think it's even easier to doubt when you start to lose perspective, and that happens when you stop moving forward. Nothing changes when it all stands still, you know? So, the thing of it is, the only way to know is to take another step forward.
... It's a scary thought, isn't it? Even though I don't have the same doubts you do anymore, the fact that I'm going to see a therapist very soon scares the heck out of me. But, and you know this without my having to say anything, the absolute most important thing to remember is this: this is all about doing what you have to do so that you can find and be who you really are on the inside. And, no matter who you are in the end, or during any given step of the way, we're her to help and support you.
*hugs*
edit: I've thought about this a bit more, and I think I should probably say that therapy isn't an absolute necessity at the moment. I still say you should look for a therapist, but do it at your own pace. Not that I'm backing up on everything I said already, I still stand by it. But there are other steps you can take before professional help. Just keep thinking about it, for one, or talk it out with us. I'm always available for a one-on-one chat, and you know where to find me if you feel like talking (...although, I think this thread has shown time and again that I'm far from the wisest person here... >.>))
Vael, I'll talk to you tonight. I may have some words of wisdom to clear some of your confusion.
You have to talk to a psychiatrist, eventually, but you don't have to do it now if you don't want.
I wish I could say more right now, but it won't be possible. We get to talk tonight.
Hugs,
Bea.
Vael, if and when you do decide to talk with a psychiatrist don’t be afraid to switch if you don’t like them. if it turn out to be somebody you don’t like, for whatever reason it will not work by far as good as when its somebody you happen to get along with and its always worth looking further. The fact that they studied to be emotional aid does not mean they cant be **** from your point of view, on the other hand if you find one you feel comfortable talking to (even if its afther some time) its something very much worth the time and effort.
[/rant from totally random person you probably never heard of and who doesn’t know you at all]
My voice is entirely non-reputable to anyone here on this forum, even this chat, but it's an open topic and so I'll speak my peace.
Specifically regarding Vael, though this is a general post, having read the bulk of this thread, you are most likely not confusing yourself. Sexuality, and more so identity, are just things that are constantly changing, no matter how aware and satisfied you may ever be with your current self.
I have come to accept my personal bisexuality (though even now, i wonder if i should relate more to pansexuality.) As far as who else knows, it's a short list- some friends, some family. However, I have entirely adjusted to this acceptance and live my life as true as I can. I don't wear my sexuality on my sleeve (I'm a private person by nature) but I don't make any attempts to hide it. I act as natural to myself as I possibly can and let the details fall as they may.
I have open discussions with people if the topic of sexual identity comes up, and I champion my own personal stance, though I never stop the conversation to mention that I'm Bi. If it naturally came up, I'd openly admit it, but it would seem awkward to me if someone was having a conversation and then just said "by the way I'm straight." As was noted earlier, it is pretty silly and pretty difficult that as a bisexual, I manage get blacklisted by every known sexual community other than the omni-acceptance-group known as the GLBTQ (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transexual/Transgender, Questioning, though, please don't anyone change their sig image, I'm quite fond of it :smalltongue:.) My point is that you might not actually need to tell everyone everything to find the path to your own acceptance, which should always be your ultimate goal on this specific adventure. (:smallwink: pun intended)
My whole story isn't worth going into right now. Instead I just wanted to reference a few details and outline the lessons I've learned from them.
More than anything, like I said, the ultimate goal for yourself is acceptance. This can come from other people, which can help immensely, but you ought be striving to figure yourself out, and then striving to come to terms with it. You are no monster. You are no error. You are a result of the overwhelming variety that nature has to offer. You are you, and for yourself, that should always be the only thing that matters at the end of the day.
As far as Psychology and medication are concerned, that is an as needed basis. I don't really understand why it is always assumed that seeking mental help is a must for someone with an identity crisis. I went to a variety of psychologists and psychiatrists for a span of time and they did nothing for me. I was medicated with a variety of anti-depressants for spans of time and they did nothing for me. It wasn't until I grew tired enough of other people trying the wrong things to fix me and took matters into my own hands. I sat myself down for hours every day and I thought. And when I thought so much that I had no room left to keep anything straight in my mind, I wrote. I kept a journal. I kept an online journal for no one but myself. I wrote and thought and wrote and thought and debated everything. I reviewed past experiences in my life, wrote them out, reviewed them, re-membered them, rewrote them, re-debated them. Eventually, I just accepted what was left from the whole process. And that was who I am.
The truth is that (and this isn't meant to make you feel more isolated) no one is going to really know what you're going through like you. No two people are exactly alike, no matter the similarity in their size, hair color, or sexuality. No amount of telling people, or talking to a mental therapist, or taking drugs is going to cause some cosmic rift in your world that will make it all ok. You may be feeling more transexual one day, more homosexual the next. Only you can reach the level of normalcy for yourself that you are looking for.
I'm not meaning to discredit the use of any of these methods. As I said, everyone is different. You might get a lot of help from one resource or a little help from another, it's up to you to feel out what will guide you best on your quest for self-acceptance. I'm only trying to make it abundantly clear that what finally helped me most was acceptance not affiliation. No person or organization, no matter how helpful, can give you the wholeness you seek. Don't try to find out if you're a homo- or a bi- or a trans- or a pan- or a ___, just find out who you are.
I've never easily related to anyone or anything. This was strikingly obvious to myself all through-out my life. All I ever wanted to do was fit in. Looks wise, I did just that without the slightest hiccup. No one really could help me, because they never thought there was a problem. I was unassuming by appearance and private by nature. It wasn't until I came to terms with who I was- with or without any other person or group to relate to, that I stopped lashing out against those who I cared for or hated most, myself included.
In this crazy mixed up world, you shouldn't try to pigeon-hole yourself. Be free. Be beautiful. Be yourself. Give yourself that chance. You might actually like it. When I hear these stories about how happy people are after they come to this realization, I know that they've really learned to love themselves on a level that is not always reached.
Lastly, from what it sounds like, the best help anyone is gonna get- more than anywhere else- is from the genuine, caring people on this forum. To have a support group like this is something unique and priceless.
I hope this regrettably long winded post can help anyone, no matter how little.
As a short aside: In the spirit of sharing stories, the strangest thing to this day that I've ever heard specifically regarding bisexuality was said by an ex-girlfriend of mine while we were still dating, before I had let anyone on to the fact that I was bisexual. All of her friends were at our place talking about homosexuality (their gay friend in specific) and when bisexuality came up she said without falter "Bisexuals are stupid fakers. They're just a bunch of gays that want to pretend they're still sort of straight. They need to stop being in so much denial." :smallannoyed: *sigh* Thanks honey. We broke up shortly after.
And we got another anon mail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous person
After being honest with myself, I have discovered the truth:Quote:
Veal, honey, this is the time that you have to be the most honest with yourself.
I am meat from a young cow. :smallsigh: :smallwink:
But no, seriously, thanks guys. *Hugs for all*
Sheeesh, that's awful. Firstly, what a horrible girl. Next, I'm sorry that something like that could have happened to you. Finally, I'm glad you dumped her, and I hope you enjoyed the hell out of it! :smallamused:
Vael, I'm not really qualified in any way to help you out here. I just want to say I hope everything sorts itself out and you can be happy. :smallsmile:
identity changes? how can something, IE gender identitiy, which is hardwired since some stage in pregnancy (oestro oder testo "saturating" the brain of the unborn child, thus creating certain affinities to their own behavioristics in later life)... how do you mean to change that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmalade
and btw: it has been proven that trans-* people do have a brainstructure of their biological opposite sex, another characteristic of hardwiring... how do u change that?
(dont really know how it is with the g&l side, (even though i believe its more a thing of experience and social adaptation, less true hardwiring) therefore using only the Trans-side for this thought experiment ^^; )
i agree with you, in all points charmalde, just in this point i believe u got it wrong. ^.~
identity, whatever it is, which a person is, feels he/she is, cannot be changed. it can be overridden, true, due to social, psychologial oder religious reasons (or whatever reasons given) but it only causes psychological stress for that person. some may live their life in various stages of happiness, in various stages of self-"realisation", for others it may be hell and want/need to have it changed as soon as possible. in the end though, one must ask: were they truly happy without them finding true "peace"? i think not. thus finding who you truly are, is the most important piece of the puzzle, agreed, and even it may need a lot of time and/or professional aid, i believe its totally worth it.
~Crystalmelody :mitd:
I've never heard the "bisexuals are just wussy homosexuals" argument before, but I've frequently heard the "bisexuals should make up their mind" comments.
Being born as something, mentally or physically, does not necessitate that one remain as such. Genetic pre-dispositions and other such "hardwiring" are not rigid determiners of one's fate, and one is able to change at any given time. While I'm dubious of anything being "proven" in regards to the human mind (especially something that argues an inherent difference in male and female minds), given the terribly poor understanding of it we have even still, there is the fact that, surely, the mind of an infant is not the same as the mind of an adult. Indeed, doing acid early in life can cause significant (though, not inherently negative) alterations to one's process of thought, while it will have no lasting alterations to most adults. Similarly, I would imagine one's mental patters, whichever gender type they are supposedly identical to, are not wholly static. The matter of transgender is personal, in my mind, and relates to how one identifies. If one's mind fits every "masculine" trait, and one is physically male, one can still identify as a female. A male may identify as male throughout his childhood, only to find he feels more female when he grows older and gives the matter serious thought. Alternately, a male may feel like a female throughout his childhood, only to feel male upon reaching puberty. Or, he male feel female his entire life. I don't believe any of these are, necessarily, invalid, or that our theoretical male is hiding something from himself.
VaelVeal: While you're, of course, welcome here, I'd advise going to the Vegetarians in the Playground thread. You could be in danger even now.
I'm not sure what religion I'm thinking of, but I believe it to be Buddhism.
Whichever religion it is, there is one belief that they hold that a person is never the same, changing from moment to moment. Every breath you take, you are someone different.
There is a lot of truth in that belief. While yes, there are many biological factors in one's identity and behavior, personality and identity evolve with experiences, changing and making someone new out of them.
For example, as I alluded to in the beginning of this thread, should I have found this group say... a couple or more years ago, I would have ranted about morality and condemned you all from on high while upholding my own righteousness. Oh, and I would have wished you all painful death by stoning.
While going from one gender identity to another is a drastic change- as I very well know- I think I've already seen just how capable a person is of change. It doesn't always happen, and we are stubborn, wanting to cling to the traits we have, but it can happen. Great change can occur with identity and personality, and accepting that can make our lives better.
Now, instead of calling for rocks, I'm going to tell you all to have a happy day, and thus demonstrate the capability of change in human nature.
Have a happy day. Or night, as the case may be.
oh how true... would have done that too...
even though my past moral standards were... a bit over the edge, in my life I've had very early certain... puzzle pieces which just didnt fit. but in the end it was my identity nagging in the back of the mind, unable to change that fact, nor, override it - especially during puberty. so in the end, I had to bend everything around identity, which caused over a longer period of time vast problems psychologically (and almost ended suicide, but thats details...). therefore, i do believe, that most things can be overridden, as in my previous post, but if ones identity cannot adjust to the "new" situation, it will snap back to ones true identity not caring if u want it, can adjust to it, or be happy with it.
ps: the thing with brainstructure:
it is known that men use one or the other brain half during any given task, while women have the tendency to use both. this can be visualised through CAT-scans or magnetotomographies. also the structure itself is a tiny bit different as women have a larger "datastream" connecting both sides of their brain. (->better ability to multitask, etc) this has also been found with trans-* people in both ways and this result also can be recreated with lab animals. (ofc, u cannot ask lab animals which gender role they want to be, except using external visual, and behavioural studies :smallamused: ) but anyways, these are hints, that the saying "being placed in the wrong body" is really very good and true definition of this state. and it does not matter if that trans-*person finds him/herself wanting to transition in early or later life, all that is done of how well this person could adapt, being forced to utilize the external social role and override its true identity.
~Crystalmelody :mitd:
Ah, I see. You refer to the scientific studies about the difference in the size of the corpus callosum between men and women. That is actually disputed among the scientific communities, though there have been numerous studies on the matter.
Some sides claim that women have a larger one, others say that it just differs between people, and others even say it is larger in men.
There are some broad differences that have been accepted that influence the matter we are talking about, but overall, research is far from accepted and complete.
true. there are too many ideas what is right and wrong, but still... some things just dont make any sense which are debated, being afflicted with this... problem.
That's really beautiful Vael. And, for once, I think I get it. However, I think a huge amount of it is based around emotions rather sexuality (although I admit many equate the two to be linked). With every second that passes, new factors come in to change how you're feeling, and change what you are. You could be a subtle, cold-hearted bastard one minute, then watch Schindler's List (:smallfrown:) and melt into something warm, teary and huggable.
Also, I have a question. I still am in love with the same straight guy, who now uses my love for him as a weapon to spite me. And now, hitting another bollard of puberty, I've begun to have some... umm... dreams (:redface:)? And, sweet-Pelor-in-Celestia-above, I want him. So, can anyone think of some good ways to wean myself off him? Apart from getting off with someone, I haven't met any gay guys for a while now.
I believe that we as humans like to pigeonhole ourselves into labels.
If pressed on the matter, I'm entirely bisexual, but does that really describe me? Is it adequate?
Sexuality is not a binary state of gay or straight. And merely putting a single midpoint of "Bi" inside it doesn't do much to make the labels more accurate. Sexual preference is an infinite spectrum, with virtually nobody existing naturally on either extreme. And, for that matter, sexuality is far more than sexual preference; there exist multiple spectrums that make labelling any one person futile. Yes, there is preference (which sex am I more attracted to?), there is gender identity (do I feel more masculine or feminine), there is dominance/submissiveness, there is so much more. And none are binary...and few people -- if any! -- actually exist on the far extreme of any spectrum.
As for nature vs. nurture, this is, again, not a binary thing. We are what we are, now. As has been stated, we change from moment to moment. Who I am as I type this is not who I will be I am done typing it. We are organic machines, computers that respond as we must to our programming -- but our programming is constantly changing. Much of it was written from the moment of our conception, but that's just the runtime environment for the software that is our experience. We are a combination of nature and nurture.
I often feel sad that many in the LGBT community feel the need to perpetuate the labelling of people; in attempting to escape the societal tendency to determine what is "proper behavior," we end up slapping labels on ourselves. I accept the labels because they are the lesser evil; too many people require these concrete dichotomies in order to sort their thoughts and feelings in an organized way...and if they can accept both sides of the dichotomy, then they will end up accepting everything in between. This can only be a good thing.
But it's so hard not to label myself. I mean, at school, I'm labelled every day. People don't look at me and see me, they see that bitchy gay-nerd who pulled a guy three years older. And, in a way, since that's the mold around me, I flumph out to fit it. It's the only way to keep going - to recognise how they see me and understand it. Embrace it - and realise that I am both part of that and above it.
Kael, I'm not sure if I can give you any useful advice, as love tends to be out of our power to control. But I will tell my story as I promised several pages ago, as it relates to your own in a way.
Almost a decade ago, when I was in 9th grade, I went to visit my best friend at his house. His nephews were there. I'd never met them, so my friend introduced us while they were playing Nintendo 64 in his bedroom. Despite being his nephews, they were more like his cousins age-wise, the younger being only 3 years younger than myself.
Meeting them was a major turning point in my life. That very moment I fell in love with the younger of the two nephews, and my perceptions of the world changed forever.
You see.. I hadn't realized my sexuality at this point. My mind was managing to be remarkably stubborn in retaining my heterosexual view of the world that I was raised with despite numerous (and obvious to myself looking back) hints to the contrary. So here I was. Not only was I falling in love for the first time, but it was with someone of my own gender, not to mention the uncomfortable age difference.
However, it was undeniable. I didn't tell him, of course, although I told my best friend sometime later. My best friend remained the only one aware of my sexuality in even the most basic sense for years. I was happy just to be near him, and I was terrified of losing that.
In February of my 11th grade year, on Valentine's Day to be exact, I came out to my school through the Underground online newspaper that some of my friends (the best friend included) were running. I still didn't tell my boy how I felt about him, although all of us had grown closer over the years. As he had grown up, he became more and more obviously straight, and I watched any chance I might have had dissolve.
Time progressed, and in my 12th grade year, he began avoiding me. It wasn't obvious at first, but became more so as the year went on. I knew what had happened, he had somehow figured out that I felt that he was more than a friend. Right around Graduation, I sent him an e-mail. I told him how I felt, but that more than anything I just wanted his friendship. He responded a few days later, saying that he understood, and he wanted to continue to be friends. His mother had figured out how I felt about him, and was worried (remember the age difference) that I might hurt him. I sent her a separate e-mail, and we clarified things.
It has been several years now since those events, and I'm glad to say that I consider both the boy I love and his older brother to be like brothers to me. The romantic feelings I had for him have faded over time and distance (they live quite a ways away now), but I'm sure that there will always be a part of me that loves him. That's unimportant though, as long as he's happy I am happy.
I guess what I'm saying Kael, is that you can't really control how you feel about someone. While I was lucky enough to fall for someone who could take my feelings for him in stride, I know how rare it is.
My only advice is to try to distance yourself. If he's using your feelings for him as a weapon, you need to get away. I know it's hard. It might feel impossible. But trust me when I say that in the end it will be best.
Wow... I think I just wrote a novel. I think that might be the first time I've written the whole story down. I hope it helps someone.
Oh, and a P.S. Don't worry too much about the "dreams". They're completely natural, and they happen to everyone at some point, especially during puberty. Just take it in stride and enjoy :smallwink:
Thank you LightWraith, it means a lot to me that you'd be willing to share that with us. I guess I'm just going to have to try not to obssess, and distance myself a bit.
Oh, and I'm glad your story resolved itself happily. :smallsmile:
This is actually one of the reasons I find it at least as difficult to interact and admit my bisexuality to the gay community as it is with straight folks. I'm always afraid they'll think I'm betraying them and making a half-way excuse to avoid being brave enough to be fully homosexual. This sentiment actually kept me from fully realizing my sexual preferences for quite some time. I knew I wasn't gay, because I had been having crushes on girls forever, so I thought my fantasies about men were just freak accidents and I did my best to ignore them. Eventually though, what gave me the strength to really discover and identify myself as bisexual was the realization that I could spend the rest of my life with the right guy, and love them as totally and completely as any woman, that I'd happily suffer any hardship and discrimination if it meant love, regardless of the body of the person I happened to fall in love with.
Anyway, I'm bisexual and came out to my friends (except one friend who is religious, and really it's just that I don't want to rub his nose in it), but not to my parents. It's weird, I'm still terrified of coming out to my parents, even though they've said straight to my face that it's perfectly okay with them if I'm gay or whatever... they're really open minded.
A few months ago I realized I had a crush on one of my best friends, who is a male. The trouble is, of course, that he's straight. I first realized I had feelings for him when he started going out with one of our mutual female friends, and over the course of their relationship I found myself being a bigger and bigger jerk to the girl, who I felt was not a good match for him. Finally, I realized that I was acting out of jealousy for her, and discovered I liked the guy. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to swallow my feelings on this and look for someone else, and let it remain a secret, because he didn't ask for this, and I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate it. Besides, I value his friendship as much as I'd value a relationship, so I wouldn't want to lose that.
Hi...
I figure it's worth me popping in here and mentioning that I'm either bi or a lesbian (I'm not quite sure which at this point)... My story is short and boring but fret not... It's not over yet.
... Dangit.
Well, Welcome Whim (Oh Alliteration, the lowest literary device) to our den of iniquity. Or thread of no iniquity, which is probably more true.
On the labeling topic, I like having a label for myself and as much as others disagree with me, I like to have labels for other people. It's how my brain operates; I put things in categories. I am gay and male.
I do not tell people that they are in a particular category but mentally I tend to label people. If someone tells me that they are pan-sexual. I am probably going to label them in my mind as bisexual. Sure, it's not the label they give themselves but that's the category that my mind is going to put them into. This doesn't mean that I don't or can't accept people who don't easily fit labels. I know self-labeled lesbians who date men. I know straight people that have same-sex sexual relationships but not emotional ones. I know people that consider themselves not part of either gender. And all of those are fine, but my mind will still give them some kind of label, even if it's not a straight forward one.
This is why you will find labels in my brain like "Male, sexually bisexual but relationship-wise only straight" or "Preo-op Female to Male Transexual who identifies self as straight and is dating girl who considers herself a lesbian."
Yeah, they probably wouldn't agree with the labels but its what I do.
... Thank you, person I have never met before. Your insight is revelating. :smallconfused:
It's okay. It's just a sorta sensitive issue is all. :smalleek:
It's sensitive for everyone. Even for me. And I'm not even sure what I am.
"Straight as an elephant's trunk" is certainly a term that applies to me.
Um, I have two things.
1. How do you define someone when they are dating a drag queen/king or transsexual. for example, Collins and Angel from Rent. Is Collins gay because Angel is technically a man, and is a man some of the time, or straight, because Angel was primarily a woman?
2. How do I lightly tell someone that we don't care they're transsexual? Not a matter of tolerance, but the leader of our GSWA is trans- and essentially tries to redirect all discussion to trans-gendered topics. We all respect trans-gender people, and are fine talking about it, but she wants to talk about it non-stop, in a club with mostly gay or straight members.
As you can tell by the banner in my sig, I have joined the supporters. While I'm not gay or bisexual (well...not now anyway) I support you all 110% and I absolutely loathe the fact that "gay" and "****(ot)" are used as insults at my school.
So, more power to you, and let's hope society can become a bit less narrow-minded in the future.
Tt never specifically refers to Angel as either a Transsexual or a transvestite, that I can remember. Someone dating a transvestite of the opposite gender is usually straight. Someone dating a drag queen/king of the same gender is usually gay. This is because these labels tend to signify people who don't live their lives as the opposite sex, only part of it. Transsexuals are a whole other can of worms. I don't know what to label people who are dating transsexuals (pre or post-op). I feel that it's self definitional. It's up to them really at that point. Complicated might be a good label. I know people who fall into this category and usually they have a self-definition (a girl dating a pre-op FtM that I know identifies as lesbian) and I tend to stick with those.
I'm Bisexual, so...hi, i suppose. Having read what others have been going through, i feel very, very lucky. Its only something i recently realised, but i suppose it's been subconsious for a while, i guess, though. I've had a long-standing crush on one particular freind, but its been an internet thing. still distracting and such, though. So, whoo, angst over that, i suppose.
To be honest, i might just be gay. I've had girlfreinds, but not for a good while.
Ah, C'est la vie.
I'd been having thoughts for years, but just admitted to myself and my girlfriend (of seven years) that I was bisexual. She is too, btw. I've had experiences with a friend of mine as a 12-13 year old. Anyway, I've never caught myself falling in love with another guy, but the idea of being with another guy is definitely still exciting to me. I dunno. I'm a little unsure as to how I should proceed.
Figured there was a thread here. Might as well post to it. :smallsmile:
Hey, there are replies. I’m subscribed to this thread and hadn’t received any message saying there was a reply for some time now. Hmm, odd… Well, I’m really glad this amazing thread’s still alive. By all means, lets keep it that way! :smallsmile:
Warning: Long text ahead!
Anyways, I’m in a bit of a dilemma considering my best friend at the moment, the same best friend who I told about my pansexuality some time ago and today about my pangender identity. After I came out to him, he asked me if he was the one or one of people I found attractive that led me to feel the way I feel. I told him without hesitation that I loved him, but as a friend, a dear one at that, but still a friend, and that I probably didn’t have any romantic feelings for him. But it didn’t take long before I, as you might have guessed, did start to have those feelings for him. At first I wasn’t sure if I was just having a crush, whether it was the work of the chocolate, or if my feelings were really serious, but as time and my feelings went on and I gave it serious thought, I realized the latter was the answer. That I can say without a doubt now.
He doesn’t know, or at least I think he doesn’t. And I don’t know if he should know. He’s straight and I’m not a girl, not physically at least. He’s also in love with a girl. I love him. I don’t want trespass on his happiness. I don’t want to risk the wonderful friendship we have.
I wish I could, like someone said in one of the previous posts, just keep my feelings a secret to him, and move on. I’d like that, but, odd as it may sound, not telling him is feeling just as hard as telling him. Partially I blame that on my just being a very emotional person, but that’s a big part of the trouble. I’m constantly thinking about him, emotions just whirling through my mind constantly and I have a hard time focussing on, just about anything. I often stand at the window, melancholically staring at the sky at night, and sometimes I’m even on lying a bed or couch, burying my face in my hands and crying.
I can still talk with him like I always did, but when I do, I sometimes have this incredible urge to shout out what I truly feel. I realize that I just won’t be the one for him, not now and very likely not ever. I want him to be happy with whoever it is he loves and I want our friendship to last, it means so very much to me. But that whirlwind of emotions, sometimes it’s just getting too much and if it doesn’t disappear or at least weaken sometime soon, I fear it’s going to have serious consequences on my daily life. And I feel getting it out to him is the only way to putting an end to this dilemma, but I just can’t help but fear that’s going to bruise our friendship, no matter how close and strong it is, and no matter how sweet, understanding and open-minded he is. :smallfrown:
Yeah, I know my story’s long-winded and sometimes quite incoherent, so thanks if you’ve taken your time to read. I hope I’ve explained everything clearly. If anyone can give any word of advice on how to deal with the situation, I’d be so very grateful!
On a somewhat lighter and hopefully helpful note. I’ve had a few talks with my therapist lately on how my pangender identity, how I could better deal with it in daily life, and mostly on how to better bring out my feminine/female side. During one session we browsed the internet a bit and came upon the following site: http://www.lkgtent.nl/ , which is the site for the Dutch transgender organization. If there are other Dutch here who are in any way trans, you might want to pay a visit if you haven’t already. It’s certainly been informative and helpful for me. :smallsmile: And there was an interesting announcement there too, namely that March 1 is the first Dutch transgender info day. I’m definitely going and thought some here might also be interested. So, there you go. :smallsmile:
Hey. I hate the words I'm about to say... but here goes: to some degree I know how you feel. And it is truly horrible - I know that much! I realise that you love him so much, and you might worry that telling him will jeopardise your friendship - but I think you have to tell him. Otherwise your relationship with him will just sit there and stew till it boils over, and, continuing with the stew analogy, make a great big mess - which no amount of dreaded kitchen roll will clear up. Let him know how you feel. You say he's such a loving, sweet and wonderful guy, and I'm sure he is, which is why he probably won't have a problem with it. And, yes, it might get awkward, but I bet it's awkward now - and it'll get worse. I can't make you tell him - but I advocate that as the best option. Overall, just follow your heart. :smallwink: *
*Ugh, I sound so cheesy!
I would guess this belongs more in the Relationships thread than here, because it's not too different from questions us heterosexuals have to ask in our relationships. I'd say, if you've been together seven years and you still want to be together, then that sounds like a really strong relationship and it's not worth risking it for a bit of excitement. But the most important thing of all is to communicate, let your girlfriend know that you have these feelings and see how she responds to them.
Hmm. I'm going to disagree. The thing is, even if you totally love this guy, as you said, he is straight. So if you tell him one of two things are going to happen. He is either going to think it is a wonderful thing, and while still not loving you in the same way, think of it as a nice thing. Maybe you'll feel better, maybe not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaelaroth
Or, he is going to be disturbed because he is straight and in his head he's going to start thinking about what it means when you say you like him that way. He'll be upset, and likely you will be to.
I can tell you that I have definitely bit my tongue when it comes to telling some women how I feel about them, possibly because they already have boyfriends, or because we are friends and I know it would probably ruin the friendship.
So, my advice is don't tell him, and try to realise that he is your friend an nothing more, and while you can care very deeply for him, he is never going to return your romantic feelings.
Anyhow, I understand how hard of a spot you are in, and I wish you the best of luck.
You misunderstand, she and I have already spoken about it at length and there's no real confusion.Quote:
I would guess this belongs more in the Relationships thread than here, because it's not too different from questions us heterosexuals have to ask in our relationships. I'd say, if you've been together seven years and you still want to be together, then that sounds like a really strong relationship and it's not worth risking it for a bit of excitement. But the most important thing of all is to communicate, let your girlfriend know that you have these feelings and see how she responds to them.
I wasn't really posing a question so much as expressing that I don't much know how to go about being bi.
Unfortunately, this is a tough one. I've been in essentially the same place (see my last novel-like post), and there isn't much that we can do to advise you. Since we don't know you or him, it makes it hard for us to give you a definite tell him/don't tell him answer.
I went years without telling the guy in my story how I felt, and they are honestly some of the most unpleasant of my still relatively short life. I told him only when I thought I was going to lose him completely anyway, so it wasn't so much courage as it was desperation. I was lucky that he took it in stride. I wasn't quite as lucky with him being utterly straight, but you can't win them all.
So really.. it's up to you. Just realize that over time your feelings for him will become more apparent to others (although not to him... people can be amazingly dense sometimes) no matter how much you think you're hiding it. I thought I had my feelings completely hidden until his mother told me she'd known for a while.
Don't rush anything, wait until the time is right, if it ever is.
To everyone else, welcome to the thread! This forum really is amazing.
My religious implications make it impossible for me not to look at who I am.
Even if being gay was a good thing, no one could love me for who I am if it was.
Please no bringy-uppy religion.
We don't want this thread locked.
Firstly, i'd like to thank Talya for inadvertently helping me to stumble upon this thread with her Vow of Nudity thread (still trying to get that one to work, btw...damn closed-minded DM's). Anyways, i've read OotS for awhile now...well, since the beginning I suppose. I only joined the forums a short while ago and have read much and posted little, but this thread was very near and dear to me. I'm not gay, nor do I consider myself bi or straight. I am in a relationship with a female and am male myself. My GF is the most wonderful person in the world, and though she is physically not attracted to many guys and is very much attracted to girls, she loves me and we have a great relationship (both physical and emotional). I myself, however, am also attracted to guys and girls. Though I have had more meaningful relationships with females in the past, I have also enjoyed my fair share of time with males and am wondering how exactly should I view myself? I suppose i'm openly bi, interested in both genders, but would rather be intimate with a female. Optimally, I would view myself as straight with gay tendencies. I don't see this as a problem, but friends (G&L, mostly) have told me it will lead to trouble with my GF. Any advice, similar situations, helpful anecdotes to ease my worries?
~Chino
Thank you, everyone who has given advice! I appreciate it so much! You're absolutely wonderful! :smile: I just dropped by to say everything's going much better now. In fact, yesterday morning I actually woke up with a smile for the first time in quite a while! :smallsmile: I've talked about my problem with my mom and she made me realize something important and actually so incredibly obvious: being in love is something that should make me feel happy, not awful like this. And, corny as it may sound, I don't think my friend would want me to feel like I felt for the past time as well.
I've accepted the fact I can probably never be more than friends with him. But I enjoy being with him, I enjoy being his friend, and I enjoy loving him. And lastly, I sincerely hope he'll be happy with the girl he loves (though I sometimes really want to do that evil Tea impression from YGO Abridged, just for fun: "Back off, bitch! He's mine!" :smallbiggrin:). Conclusion: right now there's actually nothing stopping me from just enjoying my time with and feelings for him. So that's just what I'm going to do. And if the right time comes, I can tell him how I truly feel. Thanks very much again, everyone! Thanks to you and mummy dearest all is well again in the kingdom! Yay! :smallbiggrin:
Help!
Over dinner, my brother (the rancid ****er) told my parents I was gay. I managed to dodge it (kinda?) by blabbering something about roleplaying. What do I do? I think they'll be supportive, but it will be so strange having them know I've kissed guys! And what should I do?!?! HELP! They've started to share knowing looks and I'm panicking, and I want to kill my ****ing brother, and what the hell do I do?!
First, I'd find out if your brother did it deliberatly or if it was an accident - if it was deliberate, make sure he knows you don't appreachiate it and that it's your decision when to tell people - if it was accidental, ask him to be more careful about what he says, again because it's up to you when and where to say.
I'd suspect your parents probably know - especially if there're knowing looks, but I'm sure they'd appreachiate you telling them. I'd advise going to whichever parent you get on better with and think'll take it best, if you're not quite sure how they'll be, first, then go to the other, telling them that you would rather tell them yourself and that's why you tried to kindof dodge it. It's a scary thing, but the longer you leave it, the more panicked you'll make yourself.
Killing your brother won't help, I know that for certain. If you want it to remain secret, then I think you'd be best acting normal around your brother and parents.
As Kantur said, you should probably speak to your brother about it. If it was accidental forgive and forget, otherwise your parents will become even more suspicious of you. As they're giving each other knowing looks, then they've probably had their suspicions for a while. You may think you've been hiding it well, but parents do generally know more than they let on. :smalltongue:
Kael, I'm sorry to say it, but for better or worse you're probably out to your parents. They might have appeared to accept your roleplaying excuse, but if they were even a little suspicious before, then this will have confirmed it for them. As Doihaveaname said, parents tend to be more perceptive than we give them credit for, even if they don't act it.
Did they seem to react badly when your brother mentioned it? If not, then he might have done you a favor. I waited forever to come out to my mother (as in, it was sometime in 2007), and it is rough hiding something like that. Of course, my sister outted me to my dad, so I do have an idea what you feel like.
As the others have mentioned, talk to your brother and try to figure out why he did it. It really isn't anyone else's place to out you, especially against your wishes. Try not to be too angry with him though, it's difficult for straight people to understand the concept behind being in the closet. However, if he was being blatantly malicious, be as angry as you'd like.
So to sum up my babbling, I'd go ahead and talk to your parents. You said that you thought they'd be supportive, and it does wonders for your mental health not having to hide it all the time (especially at home, the one place you should be able to relax).
That's about it. Good luck Kael!
Kael, as the other suggested, the best thing you can do now is to talk to your parents.
Be sincere to them. It seems they were already suspicious about it from their reaction and from what you said.
It'll be for the best, and it will take a weight from your shoulders.
Best luck for you.
Bea.
can anyone tell me what Bi-Curious is? is it just a really low stage of bisexuality? if you're bi-curious, are you still straight?
Or it means that you are contemplating the notion that you are bisexual. You have been mostly straight but are a little more interested in bisexual territory than usual. Or you are starting to mull over the possibility of not being straight, possibly because there is someone who interests you.
I'd say it's more a stage of bisexuality where you know you like the opposite sex, but don't yet know what to make about your latent attraction to your own sex, and are possibly willing to experiment, but not sure where to start.
(I sat at that stage for a few years.)
*pokes head in*
Hi. First off, I'd like to say that everyone in this thread who is part of LGBT group has to deal with a lot more crap than anyone ever should for very minuscule reasons. And anyone who's not part of that group who has provided support for the people who are in this group are awesome in a many, many ways.
Anywhoo...
I have wondered if I were transsexual for a long time now due to various experiences I've had during my life, and after consulting several people from the boards who are transsexual (and thus much more knowledgable on the subject), I have been able to confirm it.
To get this out of the way: Yes, I'm sure. No, I do not want to speak of the said experiences in a quasi-public setting. And no, I have not told my parents.
This is rather short and emotionless because the revelation has yet to have any sort of drama associated with it. I'm hoping it stays that way.
And that's it. >.>
... *goes back into lurk-world*
Been doin' that a while :smallwink:
Um, hm. This is a bit odd. I dislike defining myself as 'bisexual' because generally if you're a 'bisexual female' it means you're just looking for attention. It's been that way since high school (the bi just means you kiss girls to get guy's attention), and honestly that's why i never considered myself bisexual until just after high school.
I had a bit of a rough time where I was totally lost as a person, and came out the other end realizing: I like girls, I like guys. I like pretty much everyone. I couldn't ever see myself denying a relationship with anyone because of their sex, male female, transgender, whateves.
I personally define myself as 'pansexual', but I'm in a committed relationship with a man, so it's never been a big deal (as far as 'coming out' to anyone). We just both stare at hot waitresses together.:smallwink:
Of course that in itself is kinda odd. Can I consider myself pansexual if I've never had a real relationship with the same sex? Eh. I seem to beat myself up sometimes because of it. It seems like I'm calling myself a peacock when I've never gone out and strutted my feathers. I've have a lot of lesbian friends, and the only ones who seem to write me off are the older ladies who've had to deal with prejudice all their lives.
Sorry, got a bit off track, but I know you're an understanding bunch.
Bisexuality is a hard one due to the preconceived notions and prejudice and misuse. It amazes me that a group who experience hatred and prejudice like the queer community still manage to turn around the treat some other minority that way, (ie. Bisexuals). I'm not saying that it's universal, obviously this thread proves otherwise. I'm just saying it's pervasive enough to be damn scary.
Thank goodness people haven't caught up and started treating pansexuality like that yet. I hope they never do.
I identified as gay long before I'd had any kind of relationship with a guy and I've never had one many would describe a "real" relationship because of my really reluctant feelings about sex. Don't worry about if you've had "experience" with them, you know who you like.
And yes, bisexuality does tend to be looked down upon. Which is sad, since there is no reason for that. One possible reason (it does not excuse the behavior, just a possible reason in some people's minds) is that some people used to use bisexuality as a stepping stone to gay-dom. Now, people who come out as bisexual are expected to follow that same path, even though they are true bisexuals and the others were just scared and wanted a small coming out before the big one.
I've not had any proper relationship with a guy either, but i still identify myself as bisexual, but to be honest, i think gay might be far more accurate. I've had a girlfreind, but it was more to cheer the girl up than any romantic feeling on my part. i did get to experiment a little, though, which i suppose is never a bad thing.
I do still have some feelings towards girls, but i've never been great at clarifying my own emotions, so for all i know it could just be something else.
School is a widely homophobic place, and coming out even as bi would cause me no end of trouble. it can wait untill 6th form, i think. also, i'm fairly worried about the impact it would have on my male freinds, i dont want to make things too wierd.
...That was so very good to get off my chest.
(On another note, as i am *so* very ignorant, how do i put that banner with the link in my sig?:smallredface: )
You're right, there are some preconceived notions towards bisexuality on both sides. Quite a few people in the straight and queer community see it as a trendy title or an attention-getting way to experiment or a sign of indecision because even coming to terms with our sexuality we still think the general rule is "pick one or the other". Not all people see it this way of course, but enough people have this mindset to be noticable. Personally, I see bisexuality as a way to brush away the "one or the other" mindset and focus on a person primarily on their personalities regardless of sex or gender.
And speaking of the queer community harping on minorities, the discrimination against trans people is pretty damn evident and quite frankly, disgusting. But that's a whole other rant. :P