This is actually really cute!
Also, making this post took way longer than it should have... I was going to post sooner but I ran into a wall of 503 errors. Anyway, this is the colored version of the vixen sketch I did a little while back.
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This is actually really cute!
Also, making this post took way longer than it should have... I was going to post sooner but I ran into a wall of 503 errors. Anyway, this is the colored version of the vixen sketch I did a little while back.
Thanks very much!
Yeahy, those 503 errors are pretty frustrating. Your vixen is looking good though! Wasn't expecting the grey, but it suits her!
So, I got some interaction going between the fillies, figured I'd ask for feedback before colouring. I also tweaked Silver's glasses to be bigger. Seriously, pony glasses need to be HUGE to fit over their eyes :smallbiggrin:
SpoilerDay 91
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...cessTiara5.jpg
Sadly, I had to move Silver Spoon in from of Tiara's legs, which is a pity, because I thought I'd done them pretty well this time.
Actually, to be completely honest, I wasn't too sure what was wrong with the arms either at the time. I just knew something was slightly gorgy about them. This often happens when I'm drawing and it becomes frustrating when I can't find out what is wrong. I took another look at them after a full nights sleep and I think it's because one of her shoulders are slightly smaller then the other.
Maybe that was what was throwing me off. Not too sure. Another thing is that the hands could be a bit more feminine, meaning to say, a bit smaller. But that's something I need to work on. More types of hands. I have shovels for hands, it's always surprising when I notice that most people don't.
It's gray! And it's wonderful!
For some odd reason I wasn't expecting gray as a fur color, it's very nice!
Looking good!
I find that the best drawn parts of pictures will end up having to be covered up half of time, either because the composition will look best if you move over a character or there is just no other place to put a word balloon or whatever. That's just life I guess.
I think you should make Spoon's eyes looking up at Diamond's general direction though. It would make it look a bit more natural. But that's just a opinion, it also looks okay as is.
Here's some more references for the back legs in similar positions. None of them are precisely the same position as yours, but it is what it is. the first one is a very odd leg position for a horse as far as I know, but the second Sweetie Belle is better.
Spoiler
Day 22-23,
SpoilerWell, this is a large image so I spoiler'd it. For Day 22, I just drew that unfinished pose of someone pointing at you. Just wasn't feeling it yesterday.
But today!
I went on a drawing marathon! I started drawing whatever came to mind. From 12:00 AM - 7:40 AM, with plenty of coffee and root beer! Well ok, there was plenty of procrastination in there as well. But a lot of drawing got done! Well, ok, so it's mostly doodles... But it was a lot of practice!
I had to celebrate having a whole week without work and the forums being ponified. It was like life just got more awesome.
The final full figure of the week was the sitting woman, I think I got her pose somewhat right, but I always have problems with these back to you slightly like poses. And I am awful at drawing rumps, I need to practice drawing those. Note to self, draw more butts.
The Chinese warrior half-figure on the right has a strange right hand arm hand grabbing glitch as he's peering at the head bag. At times like this I wish I still had a full body mirror in my room, but alas, that quick reference is gone for all time. I'm sure I'll see what's wrong with it after a good night's sleep.
The ponies are all around the map, some good, some bad, others questionable. But I did practice Twilight and more Pinkie Pie so yay for that. I need to get to start practicing Rarity and Fluttershy's manes.
I also drew Ado and Adeline! Two completely different Kirby characters!
I also recorded my first reaction to ponified GITP for historical purposes.
And other random stuff. I dunno. Before you judge me, remember it all seemed like a good idea at the time.
Anyway, here's to another month of drawing!
Days 92-93. Did some quick colouring yesterday, but not much. Worked a little harder today and got Tiara more or less finished. Had to go over a fair few lines too, as they were hard to see after being coloured.
Silver Spoon tomorrow.
I did have them that way at first. I'll see about changing them back, but I kinda like how it is now. It's like she's just looking into the distance thinking "How did I let her talk me into this?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakuel
Thanks for the ref poses, BTW. I used one from Call of the Cutie, where Apple Bloom was depressed, just before RD arrived. I forgot to save it I'm afraid.
I loved your page of random stuff! Some really good poses there. In which order did you draw the chain of artists, and did you plan it like that? :smalltongue:
Actually, I might not have considered gray myself, but the color was specified as part of the request. It was actually a nice motivation to check out different fox subspecies and learn a bit about them. Also, thanks for the compliments.
Bakuel: Your massive draw-doodle canvas is really cool! The people are looking good, and I've actually been trying to work on some anatomy stuff lately myself, so it's good motivation to see others pulling it off. Keep up the good work!
You know, while watching Saturday's episode, I kept thinking "Huh, DT's getting some character development. Wonder what Diego thinks?" I take it your avatar is related?
Indeed, Diamond Tiara has grown on me. This is mostly because I actually RP as her over at canterlot.com, having applied for her back when she only had the one appearance in call of the cutie. This was due to a combination of liking her design, the challenge of playing a bully type character (whom I normally hate) and the working on the idea of her cutie mark/special talent (which I first assumed was jewellery making, though someone in ponythread suggested her talent was leadership, and I may just steal that idea).
So yeah, her getting a bit of character dev this season made me happy. Interesting to note how she didn't seem to hold a grudge against the CMC for the cutecenera incident. Also, I think I have free reign to play her as evil and manipulative, rather than just loud and obnoxious. :smallbiggrin:
Baahh!
You have the week off, but then you just roll-around and procrastinate instead of drawing. It's almost as if when I'm working I'm procrastinating from work by drawing, then when drawing is my main aim, I have to procrastinate by doing something else. Maybe I need to tell myself I should be cleaning or something, then I'll procrastinate by drawing.
It's full proof!
http://i.imgur.com/KwcDX.png
Looking good! Not much to say, really. Are you going to do some shading on this one?
I spent a good couple of hours struggling with shading on that Moon Cake Luna today, still didn't get it looking like anything I could bare to post.....
True, it does look nice as it is now. It is ultimately up to you. Another thing to consider, have you thought about having her look to the lower left (her right) to the ground? Or even just lowering her eyes to look at the ground? It might help with that expression. But this could be read as more submissive, so it might not be best.
Or you could also have her looking up and away from Tiara like she's rolling them. Rolling eyes are always good.
Honestly I'm just throwing ideas out there!
Thank you! :D
The chain of artists grew from a picture concept that I haven't done yet, basically having Adeline paint Ado, who has come to life and leaning out of the canvas to try to paint Adeline. The idea being that whenever Adiline paints people they come into existence fully formed with memories, thus from Ado's perspective, he would have been painting Adeline and bringing her into existence. I dunno.
I planned it when I saw that I had enough room to make a line of artists, I knew I wanted to draw Ado and Adeline and wanted to fit a master painter renaissance type chap in there somewhere. I started with Pinkie drawing my missing tooth pony OC, then I ultimately decided I wanted to end it with Derpy. I almost did a long string of Derpys drawing each other into infinity to reference the "turtles all the way down". But I got lazy. I'm going to have to do that one day.
Thanks! Anatomy is hard and I've been trying to go beyond the standard anime poses. But there's nothing to do but get right down in the mud and wrestle with it. You should post some of your anatomy stuff!
Need to catch up on new pony episodes, I am horribly behind...
Day 24-25-26,
Spoiler
Well, the few times I have been drawing I have been wrestling with a picture idea and a short comic (30-60 pages) concept. Basically, ponies in fantasy high-violence medieval (somewhat Edo Period) Japan. Not historically accurate by any means, but more tongue-in cheek.
Now I know what your probably thinking, that I'm bat-feces insane and a trite pickle headed man. And if that's what your thinking, then you hurt my feelings.
SpoilerThe tale would be somewhat tongue and cheek in tone, have a lot of violence, and a large helping of ham.
The setting of the story would be basically this, two feuding merchant families, the Apple family, and whatever the name of Rarities' family is. The tide would have turned in the Apples favor and Rarity's family would be tittering on the edge of total ruin. However, Rarity's beauty would have caught the eye of a powerful noble, Smarty Pants, who become engaged to her. As a wedding gift and to patch things up, Smarty Pants would oversee a truce between the families, one that would be only grudgingly accepted by the Apple family.
The conflict focuses on an incident arising from a passing friendship/childhood infatuation between Applebloom and Sweetie Belle, the two begin to exchange letters via an Apple family hanger-on/servant (Scootaloo). After awhile, Scoot is sighted by someone in the Rarity mansion, and when Rarity inquires about it to the AJ she denies anything, being completely ignorant of the CMC's hijinks. Not believing AJ, Rarity hires two ninjas (Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy) and task them to infiltrate the Apple family, capture Scoot and bring her in for interrogation.
Hilarity and fight scenes ensue.
As soon as I have free time I begin to generate half-baked plots. It's a sickness of the mind.
Roughly rough stuff,
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9321/day2425.jpg
I was struggling with a art concept of AJ and Applebloom walking by Rarity and Sweetie Belle on a bridge and AB and Belle sharing a backwards glance at each other. Sadly, I forgot how to do perspective and arches! I spent most of sunday and monday pouring over different tutorials and trying to get something that at least looked like something. Not to mention collecting traditional Japanese bridge references and wood block paintings. But regardless, I didn't actually get that far as far as actually drawing.
I made a rough of the bridge and characters and realized that I should use two vanishing points, while many traditional woodblock scenes have basic perspective, I figure there is no reason to hold myself to that standard. Also I realized that I didn't know how anthro-like I wanted the characters to be, I knew that I wanted them to be basically more comfortable Lyras joint-wise. After all, we need horribly inaccurate period clothing, the best thing of any historical tongue in cheek adoption. This leads me to Tuesday's drawing,
Day 26,
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6711/day26.jpg
I was trying to get AJ's proportions' down. But thanks to a annoyinglysexyfunky/electronic smooth Megaman X remix (odd I know, but it happens to me), my mind wandered and I begin to draw a more humanized anime AJ. But the one on the left is the standard I'm aiming for the picture. I also drew a half-backed conquistador and a goofy cartoony Rainbow Dash, still pecking away at a style were I can draw ponies in under ten minutes. Dash's wings are a bit odd, but I need to practice pegasus wings.
Anthroanime AJ's left hand is sadly bigger then her right. She got picked on at school about that. Also I botched her legs slightly, the knee should be a bit higher up. Also her other foot finished into oblivion.
Oh yes, I also drew a doodle of Twilight from the top down. She's that blob besides the conquistador. Shows you how well that went!
Keep leaving this stuff until late. So tired... but must post...
Day... 94? I'll check later. Yesterday:
There! Done!
Oh... uh... yeah... I could totally do that... Aha... ¬_¬
SpoilerDay 95?
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...essTiara9a.jpg
I seriously don't know if this is good or not.
Could do I guess... rolling eyes might look better... buuuut I just coloured it so... maybe another time.
Your medieval Japan themed story sounds cool, though I hate those kinds of super violent stories, especially in conjuction with ponies, so please forgive me if I don't read it.
That said, the sketches you did look good!
Actually, I can't say a word for or against so bad is my own shady work so take anything I say with even more salt then usual... The shady parts look good.
But I think you should try some darker colors for the shading next time, just experiment with it until you get a style that works for you.
It looks good as is and it shows the emotion it is supposed to!
Just as a note, when I throw ideas around, they are just that. Ideas and alternative ways of doing things, I'm the type of guy who grew up with the saying that there were a million different ways to skin a cat. Though I love cats and found the saying a bit cruel, the meaning has stayed with me and I spend more time thinking up alternative ways of doing things then doing things at all.
Thanks on the sketches! :smallbiggrin:
On the fantasy Japan idea, I need to work on communicating ideas better and the words I use. Especially since the pony fandom has a strange fascination with grim dark and gory stuff. I was aiming for very violent and gory type stuff, but lighter fare. I was aiming more for a parody of grim dark *twist/crossover* pony fiction and grim dark serious business old school samurai flicks and manga, but as they say about parody, a brief description can be easily mistaken for the real thing.
A more indepth explanation.
SpoilerWhen I said violence, I meant more action. The comic I may or may not do is not a gory comic, but more of a action comic in the style of say, Powerpuff Girl style action. Or that scene of Fluttershybeating upmassaging the bear. Cartoon violence. It has fight scenes, but they are not taken overly serious. No one dies, and no one is maimed. There really won't even be any blood besides paper cut levels (and I'm really not even sure about that). It is filled with swords that don't ever seem to cut, and bullets that don't seem to ever hit anyone. Ponies are beat up, but no lasting harm is done rather then a few bruises and being knocked unconscious.
Even the dark and gritty medieval-pre-modern society I was going to play around with. While the setting won't follow any historical Japanese society that closely (actually it's pure fantasy), I was toying with having Pinkie Pie as a minor character and a censor/investigator or metsuke-type official sent by the Empress Celestia to investigate reports of violence and illegal weapon ownership in Fancy Pants' lands. Replacing the last easily bribed investigator Derpy (muffins). While incorruptible and steadfast in her duty, she will overlook and miss all incidents until the very end. Basically a running minor sub-plot of Fancy Pants trying to stop the two families from fighting and cover everything up from the ever watchful and ever present-when-you-least-expect-it Pinkie. Also a reason why he doesn't do anything official about it as he can't do anything openly about the feud without basically admitting that yes, his province is mess.
Basically I was aiming more for humor and parody, rather then serious fiction. The ending I'm leaning toward is a happy one, or at least a neutral one (I'm notoriously bad at endings) with the families at peace. Or at least hopefully anyway.
To sum the concept up, a light-hearted fast-moving period and grim/dark/gritty parody, a somewhat light Romeo and Juliet style plot, but with friendship rather then romance and the focus on the two feuding families. Comedy arising from the actors/characters in a complete different setting and the differing dissonance and harmony which that may bring depending on the character (Think of the Muppet movies, such as Christmas Carol and Treasure Island), as well as comedy based on situations, lies and differing motives of multiple characters (Think A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, or the Roman comedies of Plautus which inspired it.) Plenty of action and fight scenes in the style of PPG and a light parody of shonen action manga.
Granted, this is a idea in it's infant stage and I have no experience with these matters. So it's best to put it on the back burner and let it sizzle, it it's still smells good in a month or so, then it's worth pursuing.
*Edit: Fancy Pants, not Smarty Pants, gah! My mind is slowly devolving into jello*
Warning! Nude man with his bits blacked out! This is my first time actually painting for realz. Blargh, I hate tonal values, and I'm sure my friend is going to tell me it's still dull and gray. Needs moar white.
Day 27,
SpoilerDrew Fancy Pants, Investigator Pinkie, and Rarity. And some misc. half formed poses. Including Richard the Third for some odd reason.
Still fooling around with the proportions of these slightly anthro ponies. I'll just hand wave their lack of fingers to hold objects. It's all magic!
Was trying to draw out Pinkie's natural hatred of falsehood and double facedness as seen in "Green isn't Your Color" and "The Last Round Up", as well as her sneaky/sleuth side as seen in "Party of One". I figured much had been done with the minor trait of Pinkamena, so I would focus on bringing out another one of her traits.
I gave Fancy Pants Bishounen hair and slightly tweaked his mustache. No reason really, it just fit with the setting.
Still having trouble with Pinkie's mane, and Rarity's tail isn't even trying to follow canon.
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8937/day27.jpg
BLAST! I uploaded that DT & SS pic to Canterlot and Ponibooru, and didn't notice that Spoon's glasses are covering her nose >_< I can fix it on Canterlot but... ah well.
Anyway, didn't feel like doing much today, so here's a dodgy-looking Elan. Day 96.
Spoilerhttp://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...Havoc/elan.jpg
Yeah, okay it's not very good and I didn't make much of an effort. It still counts, okay!?
Thanks, I'll practice with shading a little more down the line. I've noticed a few things I did wrong the first time, so that's a step in the right direction already.
Aaaah. Okay, I misunderstood, but yeah, after Cupcakes and Rainbow Factory and the rest of the grimdark garbage I'm very wary of anything labeled violent. But I think I can check out the comic. If anything, I'm looking forward to it after seeing your sketches (which I'll comment on below).
I don't think we've seen you here before. Welcome aboard! Not sure what we can offer you since that is some mighty impressive artwork there!
If you're looking for critique, I guess I can say that his face seems rather feminine, probably to due the mouth. Unless that's just a bishonen style you were going for?
I'm loving Fancy Pant's new look here! He looks very handsome with his new do and moustache. I can see improvement in Pinkie's mane from before. Rarity's tail... well I don't blame you for having trouble XD
Yes, he is supposed to be a feminine looking dude. XD I pretty much hang out at the Dominic Deegan thread, I've never really painted before in this fashion, and this piece is my first attempt, so I just wanted to share. It's okay if you have no input, I have a friend who will readily point out any problems I have. :smallsmile:
I'm mostly drive-by posting however, as I don't draw pieces like this very often. :smalltongue:
I really hope you flesh out this comic idea, because the concept stuff is looking really neat!
The shading looks broadly right, at least to my eye. You might consider trying more tonal variation and doing a little more blending with the shadows, as I think someone else suggested. Keep up the good work!
It's looking very nice! The anatomy looks good, to my relatively novice eye, and it's always nice to have new folks swing by!
Ok, time for some of my stuff. I've been doing some sketches for a picture for a friend, with the filly version of the character. For practice, have some CMC doodles:
Spoilerhttp://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/...id/fillies.png
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/...d/fillies2.png
Neither set is really where I want to be. I think drawing humanoid proportions for a while threw me on pony anatomy, because I see lots of little width/height issues of various body parts. Still, something is better than nothing, I guess...
I should have responded to this yesterday, but I was too busy rolling around double checking what I was typing like a bumbling nincompoop.
It looks great really! I can't really say much because I don't know anything real about anatomy and muscles rather then surface knowledge. Your higher far higher on the art ladder then I, so I can only offer subjective comments.
It has a real androgynous feel to it as others have said. Like it could be anything from a statue-golem, elf, angel, a human with supernatural linage or some otherworldly life form.
You should post more! Draw/paint and post in this here thread, give it life! Whenever you feel the need to do a drive-by post in an art thread, you should instantly think "Pony Draw Thread"!
Ok, ok, pushiness aside, it would be great if you posted more if you ever feel like making it. Personally it would be nice to see, even if I can't offer you any critical feedback.
Of course it still counts! :elan:
Grim dark is almost reaching meme proportions in the pony fandom, indeed, perhaps even grimderp levels. I read Cheerlie's Garden recently, and I must admit I couldn't take it seriously. The funny thing is, I rather like grim dark, and can take some gore as well! I love me some ye medieval/ancient/pre-modern time settings for example and often just playing medieval society closer to history will create something more then grim dark enough, like in the Vinland Saga manga.
Yet, the fandom seems to be flooded with it, it's starting to become trite. On the flip side, it seems good pony fanfiction which makes you think "This could be on the show" is rarer. Or even fanfiction which isn't *serious business*. While the concept I'm brewing isn't show worthy, and, due to it being set in a more nuanced setting rather then Equestria, deals with some morally gray themes. It runs, on a whole, more on a sense of humor, fun, action and adventure rather then grim, dark, seriousness. Comparable to say, Girl Genius, though by far not that much of a trash-heap world (Seriously though, that alternate Europe is the stuff of nightmares if you think on it) and no death, but similar in that the harshness/problems of the setting are not the real focus of the narrative. While the story is still being generated, the final theme I'm aiming for is that while the world and society may be imperfect and suck sometimes, a little friendship and tolerance can solve a lot of problems, not all of them by far, but quite a bit. In alternate Samurai-Equestria, friendship may not be magic, but it's pretty darn close.
Thanks! :smallbiggrin:
I think I did marginally better with the Rarity's tail today.... Marginally anyway.
I will, I figure it gives me more drawing subjects to choose from at the very least!
These are really, really cute!
I can see what you mean about the anatomy issues, I can't really say anything as I always had trouble with filly proportions especially when trying to adhere closer to the show.
Ghargh! Scoot with a halo is too cute....
Day 28,
Spoiler
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/6186/day28j.jpg
Nothing much today, Fancy Pants and Rarity. As well as two psychopathic faces. Next weeks going to be my facial expression week so I'm warming up. Nothing really to say besides Rarity's mane and tail are still hard, and kimonos are fun to draw. I'm going to look into alternative hair-styles for Rarity, I think there was at least one pined up mane style which she used which would look nice with a kimono. Not that I'm running away from her twist whirlwind curls, that would be cowardly! Besides, Spike would be sad.
I was playing with the idea of Fancy Pants only recently coming into the position of governor, perhaps inheriting the title from a great aunt or some such. As he was a minor one episode character I was chewing over personality attributes. Well-cultured, snobbish, pompous and upper-class, but kind, generous and noble. The type of pony who thinks highly of himself (and often with good reason). The type of leader who wants everyone to get along, nobles and common people alike, even if at times he doesn't truly fully understand the common farmers, merchants, and craftsponies' issues, needs and conflicts due to having lived in high society all his life.
A blurb on Samurai-Equestria Fancy Pants,
Spoiler
This early middle aged early-thirty-something stallion has spent most of his life dominating the social circles of the elite and is well cultured and learned in etiquette, calligraphy, art, music, poetry, classical literature as well as some learning in the practical sciences and magic. A renaissance stallion if you will. Yet somewhat lacking in real administrative drive. Fancy would have turned down the title if it wasn't such a great social faux pas, his family has governed the province for generations and he is the only adult suitable for the role. To renounce the title would be social suicide. Besides that, he feels that as he is the only one capable in his family to run it, it is his responsibility in the end. After all, the state of the province can be said to be his family's fault as well.
While a normal province could be at least expected to run with little real interference or innovation from the noble family ruling it, Fancy inherited a mess.
But this well cultured stallion has risen to the challenge and cleaned his "house", from top to bottom, dismissing corrupt officials, cleaning the streets,making the subway run on time.etc. There are still plenty of *problems* here and there, but nothing major to worry about. He has even settled one of the largest problems, a violent ongoing feud between two well known merchant families. And found love as well, while he was at it...
Things can only go right from here on out. The province's old reputation has finally reached Empress Celestia and the last ditzy Imperial Investigator has been recalled and a new one is due any day, but he isn't worried. This one should be easy enough to satisfy as well, and if not, find ways to... Compensate her for the trouble. If he even needs to bother, after all, what could go wrong? The province and city are completely at peace, may as well return to the finer things in life.
On a odd note, I'm stuck between Edo-Equestria and Samurai-Equestria as concept labels... On the one hand, Samurai-Equestria is more easily understandable, generic, silly and nonsensical enough that people won't be lead to belief that it is supposed to follow any historical period and is pure fantasy. On the other hand, no real Samurai make an appearance and the setting is much closer to Edo-period urban stories...
The more you talk the more I want to see this. You're onto an otherwise untapped vein of awesome right here. I'm unable to provide cogent feedback because I just want to see it happen.
Hopefully in a few days when my brain has rebooted and you've got some specific areas of concern I'll be able to be more helpful.
Yep, I see what you mean about proportions. It's the body shapes here that look off. Make them a little thicker and a little rounder and it will be fine.
http://img.ponibooru.org/_images/3e7...age%20this.PNG
So today (Day 97. Getting closer and closer to 100!) I tried out some human faces. I'll post them tomorrow, since my connection is slow enough right now, but it didn't really go too well. I just can't get the shape looking right, especially the jaw and nose. Anyone got any tips or good tutorials for this kinda thing?
So. Human faces.
Day 97:
SpoilerJust trying to get the hang of those jawlines. That's the killer for me, I think.
Random Detective Gumshoe there, just because of that chin. Incidently, the Phoenix Wright style is a good idea of what I would like to be able to do in the future. It's a good mix between cartoony and realistic. The later Advance Wars games have a similar style.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...cepractice.jpg
Day 98:
SpoilerTrying to get the hang of the differences between male and female faces. Going back to the manga style that I originally learned for drawing people.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...epractice2.jpg
With human faces really the best thing you can do is try for realistic proportions and shapes, even if they take much longer. Once you have that down you can stylise a lot easier and a lot more effectively. Starting with a flat, cartoony form means you're essentially stylising a stylisation and that quickly inbreeds out of the point of recognisability.
Agreed.
Day 99. Grabbed myself some reference pics (which I actually had from way back when I used to do 3D) and got to work.
Spoilerhttp://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9.../mansface1.jpg
It's a start. His hair is pretty flat, I made his head in the side view too narrow, the ears are wrong in the front view, the chin, the mouth, the eyes etc.
I'll work on it (but I also have a few pony things I want to do too.)
It helps to draw out the underlying structure before drawing the actual details. I'm not very good at explaining, but you can see how I drew it. Top of the iris should be under the eyelids or else you will get a very surprised expression. One way to draw noses is to draw 3 circles, the 2 smaller circles representing the nostrils. I hope this helps.
The only explanation I have for this is Dwarf Fortress plus ponythread IRC:
I actually did draw the structure, I just erased it afterwards. Clearly I didn't do it right. Didn't know that about the nose though; that will come in handy.
Yours is really good though! :o How long have you been drawing for, if you don't mind me asking?
._. Well.... it's a good camel! I dunno about whatever that it next to it :smallredface:
Day 100! Woo! Sadly unfinished thanks to RSI kicking in (ouch! >_<) so I'll continue tomorrow. More pony, because I had an idea I really wanted to draw. I'll get back to humans soon enough.
Spoilerhttp://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...rtwilight1.jpg
Based on this, from April Fools:
http://img.ponibooru.org/_images/710...ht_sparkle.jpg
:smallbiggrin:
Yea, your structure wasn't very good then, it is very important to get the shape, which your drawing didn't have. Proper placement of the features isn't the only thing you have to look out for. Think in simple shapes if possible.
I have had a passion for drawing for as long as I can remember, people at school were often saying how good I was, altho it was only during college that I learned the techniques to refine my work. :smallsmile:
A surprise roadtrip and the Easter festiveness kept me away from a internet connection, but I was still drawing!
Thanks! It's full speed ahead on this concept then!
Thanks! :smallredface:
I'm embarrassed. Your fanfic, "Yours Truly" remains one of the best I have ever read and the reason why even though I generally don't ship ponies, when I do, I ship Twilight/Applejack, and Rainbow Dash/Fluttershy. And the only one which has lead to manly tears.
Any and all comments would be welcome, if there are any leaps of logic, or anything like that go ahead and point it out. Or even if my blurbs are too wooden and boring.
I'm not much of a writer outside of boring academic essays (and even those are just serviceable) and am most worried about dialogue. So when I get to that bridge help with that would be great!
Camels are always nice! :smallbiggrin: Everyone always overlooks camels as wonderful animals!
That's some nice bones on the (fantasy? alien? mutant?) camel and it's legs are rather freaky and nice. The one on the left's back legs seem off.
Congratulations on day 100!! :smallbiggrin:
I need to finish coloring that Luna mooncake...
The only nitpick on your Twilight picture I could see was that her right back leg seems off in it's placement. It's too far to the left in the picture.
This is extremely helpful, I also have never heard of the three circles for the nose, I'm going to try that tomorrow!
Day 29-30-31.
Spoiler
Day 29-30
I've been trying to get the actual dimensions for the Samurai-Equestria characters right, I think I've settled on between 4-5 heads for most characters. But it'll probably change depending on whether I'm having a good art day or a bad day.
I drew some Inspector Pinkie Pie, and AJ and Applebloom, not much to say, just trying to keep at it. If I do manage to hammer out a comic I'll have to be at least somewhat constant with the designs. While still being able to go at a nice speed. Still trying to get there.
Day 31,
Today I started off with the Chariot sketch and ended with Ninja Dash and Shinobi Shy. The chariot one blew up in my face with the humanoid character anatomy and placement. The horses are also questionable and I haven't tried to define their legs. The one on the right's head is either too fat or not long enough, even for cartoon horses. Still, I really want to draw a warchariot, even if the perspective on it is bad. I'll work on fixing most of the glaring anatomy issues later.
After I was warmed up on the chariot debacle I could draw a bit cleaner with Shy and Dash, nothing really to say, just posing. I think they're still somewhat close to 4-5 heads. At least I hope. I have a feeling consistent anatomy size is going to be a problem.
A blurb on Imperial Inspectors and government, even though most of this information won't show up in the story, I guess it'll be easier to flesh the setting out first. And I do love world-building. The government is a mixture of feudal (regional governments) and bureaucracy (the central government). I figured that the feudal government ruled by warring daiymos was the original one until the rise of Celestia and Luna who imposed the central government and bureaucracy, however, the daiymos and noble class still exist and the elements come into conflict with each other.
I was thinking that Samurai-Equestria is a bit harsher and larger then normal Equestria and a little less magical. Unicorn magic is less versatile and powerful, Earth Ponies need to till the land harder to get crops, Pegasus can't fly as far or as fast. Rising and lowering the sun and moon is harder. There is simply less magic everywhere and life is a bit more harder. So the government reflects that too.
SpoilerImperial Inspectors have a somewhat spotty reputation. The bureaucracy and feudal system of the government is large, hierarchical, layered, and more then often, a bit corrupt. Magistrates are at the bottom, often composed of a few hamlets. Any number of magistrates are combined into provinces, ruled by governors from the largest city in the area. Provinces are combined into regions ruled by daimyos. Finally, the Empress Celestia and her sister rule over the daimyos.
Taxes, crops, and goods change hands a thousand times and while the system works for the most part, a lot more slips through the cracks then the immortal Empress would like. Just like in many premodern societies in the real world, information travels slowly, even with Pegasus carriers. Complaints and tales of corruption from the provincial level take time to reach the daimyo level and even then the daimyo may or may not do something about it. Often governor titles are given to families which are the daimyo's vassals or that have some family tie and taking the title from them is out of the question. Better a loyal incompetent or corrupt governor, then a new one who's loyalty would have to be tested.
Ponies can also appeal directly to the capital, however, the complaint takes time to reach the capital and even longer to reach the Empress' ears if it even ever does, having to travel through the necessary bureaucracy. This system is not in place to be insidious, far from it, it's just that Equestria is just so large and composed of so many provinces that the Empress and her sister would not be able to deal with all the problems personally. Raising and lowering the Sun and Moon is tiring and outside of this most of their energy is devoted to dealing quarrelling daimyos and the upper levels of government, rather then the affairs of some far off rural province.
However, in her eternal wisdom, the Empress Celestia has appointed a special corps. of Inspectors to go out into the provinces and investigate local governments and sniff out corruption and report wrong doing. Each inspector reports directly to the two most high sisters and their reports are read daily. Naturally many local governors fear the local Inspectors as a bad report can lead to their titles being revoked and given to more worthy individuals. While many nobles get their acts together while under investigation, others do their best to bribe, misdirect or misinform Inspectors. Sometimes some less then savory inspectors have even threatened governors with a bad report unless they find it in the kindness of their hearts to give them a nice gift or two. But this is rare as the Inspectors are hand chosen by either Celestia or Luna, but while wise and powerful, the two are not gifted with omniscience. Of course, though not all-knowing, the alicorns are still powerful and, though kind, they are vengeful when pushed. Thus only the most foolish of the dishonest Inspectors attempt outright extortion and blackmail.
All these facts make the relation between governors and Inspectors tense to say the least. Even if they are both perfectly honest officials, the two will generally be somewhat suspicious of each other.
I already said a little about the side of Pinkie's personality I was going to focus on. Another thing is that in this else-world, it is Pinkie Pie, rather then Twilight, who has become one of Celestia's chosen ponies, so she will also want to prove that she is actually competent and can be relied on (like in "Baby Cakes").
A young untested adult, Inspector Pinkie is, humorous, sneaky, just, weird and relentless with her task. She still loves to party, but do to her time in the palace is much slower to open up to other ponies and show her party side. Generally in private with non-official ponies and fillies. She is determined not to mess her assignment up. Though untested and somewhat naive, she believes that the central government's system works and is far from a fool.
Another blurb,
SpoilerInspector Pinkie Pie was born into a prestigious rock farmer family. Unlike in normal Equestria, rock farmers are a big business because of the appreciation of rock gardens. Every large shrine complex, mansion, or palace needs at least one of these gardens for quiet contemplation and meditation. Pinkie Pie's family was not only well known for the harvesting of rocks, but also for the artistic ability to put the gardens together. However, Pinkie Pie has never fit in with quiet stone gardens, meditation, or contemplation. Though she often tried and did her best to please her family, she's always longed for something more, a little more noise, a little more laughter, and a little more happiness. When the Palace's rock gardens were being renovated Pinkie's family was called in to redesign them. It is here during a chance inspection by the Sun Empress herself that Pinkie came to face to face with her and actually managed (to the shock of everyone present) to make her laugh for the first time in days.
Recognizing her kind, uncorrupted spirit, Celestia took her under her wing and begin to train her to become a Imperial Inspector. Needless to say, as time passed it became apparent that Pinkie Pie didn't really fit in with the proper offical ponies in the palace. Her humor and jokes only lead to arched eyebrows amongst nobles and snorts of dismissal from career minded bureaucrats. When they did laugh, it was generally at her rather then with her. Sensing her loneliness, Celestia often spent her personal time with her and listened to her jokes and stories. However, this would only lead to rumors amongst the staff about how Pinkie was Celestia's personal pet and that the rock farmer clown was unfit for *real* government work. After hearing about the corruption and lawlessness in a rural province and the failure of her appointed Inspector, Celestia has given Pinkie her first assignment, investigate the administration of the Fancy family and bring any and all lawbreakers to justice. Eager to please and prove herself to the patron which saved her from a life of rocks, Pinkie has set off for glory. Whatever the other officials at the palace may say about her, she is sure she will prove them all wrong. She just has to.
Also, sorry for any grammar and spelling mistakes on the blurbs...
Aw, I'm really glad you liked my story :smallredface:
Can do! I find myself providing a lot of writing advice recently, and I'm quickly becoming quite practised at it. I'll be more than happy to provide advice, general or specific, once I have a sample of your writing to riff off.Quote:
Any and all comments would be welcome, if there are any leaps of logic, or anything like that go ahead and point it out. Or even if my blurbs are too wooden and boring.
I'm not much of a writer outside of boring academic essays (and even those are just serviceable) and am most worried about dialogue. So when I get to that bridge help with that would be great!
Dialogue is something of a strength of mine, and a lot of it comes down to one trick I figured out: Read everything out loud! And read it in the voice the character would be saying it in. There are some words you cannot shout, and some words you cannot whisper. There are phrases that outright never occur to you when you're worked up, and nine times out of ten people will go for the answer that is witty or makes them look good rather than communicating the facts.
My best general piece of writing advice is read and watch widely, with an active, critical mind. The Marx Brothers are funny - why? Those two characters have a good dynamic - how is that communicated? Why do we like one partner and not the other? Question everything, and reflect on the world around you. It's the best way to improve your writing.
Can't look at the pictures on my current machine, so I'll get back to you on those.
The trick with worldbuilding is that you want to have as much of it as possible and say as little of it as possible. It can all function freely in the background but the characters who live within it will almost never reflect on it. Those are their assumptions; the truths that come with their setting.Quote:
A blurb on Imperial Inspectors and government, even though most of this information won't show up in the story, I guess it'll be easier to flesh the setting out first. And I do love world-building.
The real strength of a setting like "Samurai Equestria" is the seeding. Seeding is a term I coined; it means when you phrase something a certain way it immediately calls to mind a whole pile of associations and structures in an extremely few words.
If I start a story with a girl walking towards Bethlehem then you instantly recognise all the associations that come with it. If I begin by saying "Once upon a time" then your mind automatically switches to Fairy Tale mode. Tapping into humanity's collective experience is as important as having thought things through.
Have you ever read the Tales of the Otori? The first in the series, Heaven's Net Is Wide, is possibly my favourite book ever. It's set during feudal Japan, and it came to mind now due to the treatment of the Emperor in it. He's a distant, almost mythical figure with so much power and wealth that it scarcely processes in the minds of the poor northern clans.Quote:
Ponies can also appeal directly to the capital, however, the complaint takes time to reach the capital and even longer to reach the Empress' ears if it even ever does, having to travel through the necessary bureaucracy. This system is not in place to be insidious, far from it, it's just that Equestria is just so large and composed of so many provinces that the Empress and her sister would not be able to deal with all the problems personally. Raising and lowering the Sun and Moon is tiring and outside of this most of their energy is devoted to dealing quarrelling daimyos and the upper levels of government, rather then the affairs of some far off rural province.
I'm seeing an exceptionally cool scene where the governor and the Inspector have a delicate social duel over tea, trying to discover how corrupt the other one is and if they should offer or demand a bribe - and if evidence of bribery will be met with retribution.Quote:
All these facts make the relation between governors and Inspectors tense to say the least. Even if they are both perfectly honest officials, the two will generally be somewhat suspicious of each other.
Does "Party" in this context mean "Party" in the same context as Equestria? Does she enjoy the stately feasts of court, or is she prepared to risk her reputation by trawling dive bars with the commoners? If so, that would give her a low popularity and high scorn. If so, what would her reaction be? Hide her commoner friends? Try to prove herself despite them?Quote:
I already said a little about the side of Pinkie's personality I was going to focus on. Another thing is that in this else-world, it is Pinkie Pie, rather then Twilight, who has become one of Celestia's chosen ponies, so she will also want to prove that she is actually competent and can be relied on (like in "Baby Cakes").
A young untested adult, Inspector Pinkie is, humorous, sneaky, just, weird and relentless with her task. She still loves to party, but do to her time in the palace is much slower to open up to other ponies and show her party side. Generally in private with non-official ponies and fillies. She is determined not to mess her assignment up. Though untested and somewhat naive, she believes that the central government's system works and is far from a fool.
So Pinkie is aristocracy? How does that fit with her personality; her base assumptions; her motivation? Does she think palace life is boring, has she been trained in etiquette and formal socialisation? Is she still a slob? Is her show personality there underneath layers of formal training, or has she more successfully integrated the two?Quote:
Another blurb,
Inspector Pinkie Pie was born into a prestigious rock farmer family. Unlike in normal Equestria, rock farmers are a big business because of the appreciation of rock gardens. Every large shrine complex, mansion, or palace needs at least one of these gardens for quiet contemplation and meditation. Pinkie Pie's family was not only well known for the harvesting of rocks, but also for the artistic ability to put the gardens together. However, Pinkie Pie has never fit in with quiet stone gardens, meditation, or contemplation. Though she often tried and did her best to please her family, she's always longed for something more, a little more noise, a little more laughter, and a little more happiness. When the Palace's rock gardens were being renovated Pinkie's family was called in to redesign them. It is here during a chance inspection by the Sun Empress herself that Pinkie came to face to face with her and actually managed (to the shock of everyone present) to make her laugh for the first time in days.
Is failure to get a laugh from the nobility a failure of the nobility, casting them as enemies/a false path? Or is it a failure of Pinkie - she has to learn restraint and more sophisticated humour, fitting her jokes to her audience rather than assuming lowbrow humour will work for everypony?Quote:
Recognizing her kind, uncorrupted spirit, Celestia took her under her wing and begin to train her to become a Imperial Inspector. Needless to say, as time passed it became apparent that Pinkie Pie didn't really fit in with the proper offical ponies in the palace. Her humor and jokes only lead to arched eyebrows amongst nobles and snorts of dismissal from career minded bureaucrats. When they did laugh, it was generally at her rather then with her. Sensing her loneliness, Celestia often spent her personal time with her and listened to her jokes and stories. However, this would only lead to rumors amongst the staff about how Pinkie was Celestia's personal pet and that the rock farmer clown was unfit for *real* government work. After hearing about the corruption and lawlessness in a rural province and the failure of her appointed Inspector, Celestia has given Pinkie her first assignment, investigate the administration of the Fancy family and bring any and all lawbreakers to justice. Eager to please and prove herself to the patron which saved her from a life of rocks, Pinkie has set off for glory. Whatever the other officials at the palace may say about her, she is sure she will prove them all wrong. She just has to.
I asked a lot of questions through this because every decision should have a reason behind it. None of it's meant to imply that anything here is bad, just to open up possibilities and question assumptions :smallsmile:
Alright, I'll give it another shot soon. Thanks for the advice. :smallsmile:
Thanks very much! I'm glad I made it this far.
I think you're right about that leg. That's fixed.
Day 101:
Spoilerhttp://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...twilight1a.jpg
I'm not sure about the far side guns. I think they look a little off.
EDIT: Found a really good pony face reference sheet!
There probably won't be any dialogue or anything for awhile now. I plan to start making thumbnails of comic pages of scenes which are already in my head as practice during breaks at work, but other then that, it'll be mostly setting stuff for the next two months or so until summer break.
Thanks for the advice!
Reading out loud was actually the advice given to me to improve my essays. As my old prof said, if it sounds stupid, boring, wooden, flowery, or trite when you read it out loud to yourself, it is double that for everyone else.
I'll start listening in on how people talk to each other, as well as how they use their bodies and eye contact (this being a comic after all). Now I not only will be known for looking at people oddly for sketches, but also listening in on their conversations!
Alright, maybe I'll stick to looking at movies.
I agree! Most of the setting stuff is actually for me to get a feel for the characters and setting. I figure if I don't know their issues, concerns and how they live in their society, I won't be able to get them to act naturally. And if the characters aren't even individuals to me, then I know that the reader certainly won't feel the same way. I'm more of a history and anthropologist man and one of the criticisms I usually level against many fantasy settings is that no one seems to act like they truly are truly a product of a fantastical, foreign society. I don't want to fall in the same trap. Even if this is going to lean more to the action adventure humor style of comic.
I'm trying to think of good ways to show rather then tell. Pictures worth a thousand words and all. And this is going to be a rather short comic. Less then a hundred pages, so it will have to be nice and neat.
I have never read it! I'll have to get a hold of a copy.
Most of the divine ruler actually comes from my reading of chinese history which I know more about then japanese.:smallredface: Though, I also knew that the japanese emperor was divine (at various degrees) too for various parts of history so I just rolled with it.
I'll get to the rest of the stuff on Pinkie tomorrow, it's already 12 AM here and I need to get my sleep. But I must respond to this one point.
Question Samurai-Equestria! Don't hold back on comments and criticisms! None of what I am discussing is canon(!) the setting and characters are still in the formative sketch stage, if half baked ideas show up during this stage then it's best that they be questioned, fleshed out, distilled, or (if all else fails) dumped and replaced by others. I really want to at least make a concept for a story which could be released to the general pony fandom public, so any feedback is appreciated.
If there are any holes, then I'm sure they can be patched up and fixed. If the hole is too big, may as well tear out the wall. Better now then later.
After all, suppose I build a lot of scenes and plot progression around say, Pinkie's relationship with the nobles back in the palace. Then someone asks why Pinkie hasn't mastered the social circle yet, after all, Pinkie is a very extroverted social pony. If I don't have a good reason for this, the whole thing comes crashing down like a house of cards.
For setting and backstory stuff, it's best to poke, prob and nit-pick right now.
Also your questions really helped me flesh out Pinkie Pie and the setting, such as taking another look at what bawdy entertainment middle class sorts could do in Edo Japan and figuring out what types of entertainment would be popular in Samurai-Equestria, as well as the relationship between the arts/craftsman class and the nobles in the Edo period and how it corresponds to Samurai-Equestria. Questions are good.
They do look a little off. But not too sure how... Sorry, I'm a little light headed today, I'll do better tomorrow.
But I must say if I haven't, your linework is getting much cleaner.
I don't know if you do this, but as a side note and cheat, if you want the curves to be even cleaner you may want to draw larger and then shrink it down. I don't for sketches, but I do for finished projects that I want to be a little extra nice and sharp.
Thanks for the reference! That Pinkie Pie mane is the mane I will dream about when I try to draw Pinkie Pie, it's almost perfect.
Day 32,
Spoiler
No concepts today! Just a ugly coloring attempt!
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9063/day32.jpg
I seem to have entered into a dark age with coloring. But here is today's attempt at Luna Moon Cake colored. I need to clean it up and try again tomorrow. Lazy stars are lazy. The candle flame needs work. I don't know. It's a work in progress, who would have thought this would turn into the greatest coloring challenge I ever had?
How people talk in movies is much, much different to how they talk in real life. It's important to be aware of the difference because some stories benefit from perfect movie dialogue and some from more rambling reality.
Cinematography tricks are great resources. Stylisation can communicate a lot of assumptions.Quote:
I'm trying to think of good ways to show rather then tell. Pictures worth a thousand words and all. And this is going to be a rather short comic. Less then a hundred pages, so it will have to be nice and neat.
The Japanese Emperor was fairly consistently divine, descended directly from the god of mountains and a sea dragon I believe? The majority of real power was concentrated in the hands of the Shogun, however. (Fun fact: Shogun means "Great barbarian smashing general")Quote:
I have never read it! I'll have to get a hold of a copy.
Most of the divine ruler actually comes from my reading of chinese history which I know more about then japanese.:smallredface: Though, I also knew that the japanese emperor was divine (at various degrees) too for various parts of history so I just rolled with it.
Will do! Problem is that the raw concepts and worldbuilding are kind of hard to provide feedback on because a lot of it is completely backseat to it's actual role in the story.Quote:
Question Samurai-Equestria! Don't hold back on comments and criticisms!
The what is always subordinate to the how!
I think I might just return here for now. I'm not posting rapidfire updates anymore, and while my own thread does a good job of keeping my work catalogued, when there's nothing to comment on it feels a little like posting into a void. Here, it'll at least keep the thread bumped and keep my attention on it should someone else have something I can help with.
_____________
Continuing with the timed pony sketches, adding them to the same sheet for later comparison. Just two today, on the right.
(Link form)
(post deleted and reposted due to forum error... when will we get better forum software?)
Good to have you back! I should have posted in your thread more often, but I often find it hard to keep up with multiple threads and forget... Either that or I can only say that something is awesome and not give any true useful commentary...
And those are some nice quick ponies. While her front legs may be off, I think Fluttershy looks the most on model.
I actually thought about having a pony shogun type, but then I quickly figured that the alicorns can all but shoot beams from their eyes. They really are gods, so having another pony in control would be a little silly.
True that, you could say that I just like making settings!
I'm dealing with more minor characters right now and their backgrounds aren't as important. However, in time I will get around to actually discussing the Apple family and Rarity's family (whatever their name is, need to think up a name... The "Boutique"? Baah...) and their conflict and Fancy's band aid attempt to fix it will be apart of the prologue.
I want it to be specific, detailed, and make sense. Something more then
http://i.imgur.com/KwcDX.png"These two families hate each other... I dunno, because of something or another..."
While avoiding the dreaded info dump.
:elan: "Exposition Ahoy!"
I was doing some light research into the early yakuza, the mafia in general, unions, and guilds to help go through different things organizations/guilds/clans/families or what have you would fight over and which would fit for the story. Even if it is distilled down to a few lines after the fact by Fancy during a truce banquet scene, with most of the actual scene spent showing that the families are still hostile as well as a meeting between Applebloom and Sweete Belle.
I know to the general reader it won't matter much, but I will always fear that someone out there there will be a odd guy much like me, who will snort and say to himself, "He couldn't even be bothered to think up a pause-able reason for the families/clans to be fighting! Couldn't he do some light research?!"
That's a great idea for a scene, and I have the perfect place for it in the plot. Originally for the introduction of Pinkie Pie I was going to have her on a tour/inspection of Fancy's mansion, which would be interrupted by the sound of a gunshot caused by a skirimsh between Rarity and a sneaking messenger Scoot and Pinkie rushing to the scene.
However a tea scene would be better for dialogue and characterization. I can imagine after a somewhat delicate and nice period of time during tea, Fancy offering Pinkie a "welcome gift", to test the waters. Something light and non-offensive to test the waters and which could easily be taken as a pleasantry since she only arrived yesterday. Pinkie, being the extreme non-corruptible zealous sort, basically-
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Well ok maybe not literally but you get the idea. (Then again, according to the meme, the Japanese name is literally "Return Tea Tables" so maybe it would fit....)
She begins listing the charges Celestia has leveled against the province and which are under investigation. Fancy will deny everything and state that while that may have been true in the past the province is now at peace, non-violent.etc. Only to be interrupted by the noise of the musket shot.
This way the character and motivations of Fancy and Pinkie are out in the open and out of the way quickly during a short scene change between the main fight scene between Rarity and Scoot. Perhaps with the scene cut happening with Rarity taking aim, leaving the idea and suspense with the viewer only to have it come back to the fore suddenly with the gunshot noise and the scene changing back to the action. And have Pinkie and Fancy showing up after the action has ended, only having the destruction left as evidence.
Or it could just interrupt the action. I dunno.
Responses on Pinkie and the backstory.
SpoilerI wouldn't really call Pinkie's family aristocratic. Her family are artisans/craftsponies, well known artisans, but still artisans. Going back to it I would say that her family is upper-middle class, they are somewhat famous (amongst those who truly are into rock gardens) and working on the palace's garden's was a once and a life-time honor. I was drawing on the idea of artisans as being outside of the noble circle of honor, and your question made me run back and double check to see if I hadn't got my facts mixed up on Edo-Japan. Pinkie's family is apart of the Samurai-Equestria's version of the artisan or craftsman class. Even though many pony nobles take part in the arts as leisure activates, to make money by producing an art or craft is generally looked down on as beneath them and dishonorable. They may make their own paintings or small rock gardens, but to actually paint portraits or travel around and design people's rock gardens for pay would be demeaning.
Pinkie not fitting in with the nobles and bureaucrats was a concept that was developed during the weekend. I realized that I had an idea of Pinkie's relationship with her mentor, but not with her peers at the palace.
As I have never really worked in a bureaucratic organization, I just asked some relatives to relate their experiences and generated some concepts from there. In a bureaucracy at least nominal based on merit, jumps due to supposed favoritism are general frowned upon as in the case with Celestia and Pinkie. Especially if this isn't do to any true measureable ability, Celestia sees the kind, incorruptible, and straightforward nature of Pinkie and perhaps, even in twisted mirror of Samurai-Equestria, she sees one of the ponies who would be able to weld one of the elements of harmony. However, the power of "heart" cannot be tested and is generally thought of as worthless by more practical types. It will not increase revenue, nor will it dazzle ponies with references to classical literary texts and allusions that sophisticated palace ponies like.
Thus I figured they would probably be somewhat hostile to Pinkie Pie and then I rolled with it using the first season finale as a guide and also how Pinkie wanted to prove herself as competent in "Baby Cakes". But now that you've pointed out, blanket reactions in a group are bad, some of the palace ponies are probably hostile, some not. However, I believe that most would have trouble taking Pinkie Pie seriously. She hasn't been educated like a true top of the elite and is an outsider of mediocre skill levels.
As for if Pinkie had adjusted to high society, I can actually see that if given enough time. However, I imagine that Pinkie Pie would have only have been in the palace training for 1-3 years, rather then raised up from a early age like canon Twilight in Canterlot. As a side note, I was going to add a line that she had already got her party cutie mark some time ago, but then I realized I didn't know if Samurai-Equestria had cutie marks. After all, there is less magic and a theme that is developing with these characters is that who they truly are (their passions, loves and wants) are often hidden behind a mask. A outward honest appraisal of who they are really wouldn't work. Besides they wear clothes anyway. Maybe the cutie marks are just extremely private? "Hey baby, what's your mark?" being a common sleazy pick up line.
Pinkie hasn't been educated to be apart of high society. In human years she would be around 17-20 when she was first noticed by Celestia and entered the palace. Also Pinkie isn't just moving into a common noble society, but the highest of high. This is a society a large step removed from Fancy's noble family and would view Fancy as trite, these are ponies who actually manage to see and speak with the immortal alicorns themselves. They do tend to get a bit snobby and look down on outsiders.
She would probably find their ways boring, and, after attempts to be their friends and get along with them and being looked down on as borish, generally keep away from them. Still, Pinkie being Pinkie, she probably has a few acquaintances, perhaps fellow Inspectors or Inspectors in training who she is on speaking terms with. No true blue friends or buddies. More like cordial co-workers at best, nice, pleasant, but they aren't inviting you to any social gatherings.
In my own experience in university and watching different people from different classes moving into a university of an other dominate class (like say lower to higher class) three things generally can happen. The first is that they do their best to act like everyone around them and convert. The second is that they don't socialize and keep to themselves, generally with a vibrant life away from the university's dominate culture. The third that can happen is that person becomes not quite one class or another, they may be too high class for the lower class they left at home, at the same time, they are too low class for the high class people around them at the university. This can be a sense of empowerment, with the person being able to move through both classes with ease, but can also serve as a point of entrapment, not being ever able to truly be apart of either.
I like the idea of a mix of one and three, with Pinkie having a few groups of drinking/partying/theater going buddies from the merchant, artisan and lower noble circles in the entertainment district of the capital, while at the same time picking up some of the habits and higher ideas of the palace. Such as her faith in the system and a mission to right wrongs. If Pinkie is already somewhat shunned, dismissed, or just not taken seriously, she probably wouldn't bother hiding her travels to the lower quarters. Either that or perhaps it's a open secret or rumor. Of course, Palace security being what it is, it's not like she can take herstallion or marefriends home. Whatever the reasons, Celestia, even Samurai-Equestria Celestia, isn't the type to honestly care and that's the main pony Pinkie cares about. While the security of the palace is tight, it isn't an Imperial City style shut down.
The parties in Samurai-Equestria that Pinkie Pie likes involve drinking in more humble/common/middle class bars, restaurants, tea houses and the like. Silly, loud and crude jokes and wild (but ultimately harmless) abandon, and a good time for everyone, with little thought of your reputation or standing. The other entertainment that is available and Pinkie likes is theater, kabuki-ish dramas, comedies, puppets, acrobats, and of course, magic shows.
Because every type of Equestria has magic shows.
http://i.imgur.com/Z2C9W.png
Day 33,
SpoilerA small one, just a Landsknecht head and a Pinkie head, neck and arm. I used Humbug's tip for three circles for the nose. I botched it of course, with making the nose too small and then trying to correct the size without just earsing and starting over so it's quite defined compared to the rest of the cartoon face. Perhaps it's just red from the cold. But whatever, the nose looks better to me at least and I'll be using the method again. So yay!
Still trying to get Pinkie's mane done right.
As I sidenote, I was going to make the Landsknecht clean shaven, yet I was oddly compelled to slap more silly facial hair on him...
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6889/day33q.jpg
Hey there, pony draw thread. I just drew my first pony sketch. Took me a while, about 30 or 40 minutes. Feel free to critique and demand the bettering of myself. I probably should have waited to color it, or at least figured out beforehand that I didn't have the correct colored pencil for the job...
Original
My drawing
No one ever saw the emperor because he was so busy raising the sun every day. Celestia might not actually be in the palace; she could be hidden amongst the common ponies while the shogun - maybe a dragon - keeps everypony from looking behind the curtain.
Doesn't fit with your role for Celly in the story though.
Rarity Belle doesn't sound hateful.Quote:
True that, you could say that I just like making settings!
I'm dealing with more minor characters right now and their backgrounds aren't as important. However, in time I will get around to actually discussing the Apple family and Rarity's family (whatever their name is, need to think up a name... The "Boutique"? Baah...) and their conflict and Fancy's band aid attempt to fix it will be apart of the prologue.
What's way more powerful than explaining where the feud started or what it's about is to show it. Have Applejack burn down one of Rarity's buildings in an introduction sequence, drop a cool one liner, and then cut to an angry Rarity. Have a few ineffective Fancy Pants soldiers show up to stop her, but have her demolish them kung fu villain style. We dunno how this feud started, but that doesn't matter - we know exactly where it goes from here.Quote:
I want it to be specific, detailed, and make sense. Something more then
http://i.imgur.com/KwcDX.png"These two families hate each other... I dunno, because of something or another..."
While avoiding the dreaded info dump.
:elan: "Exposition Ahoy!"
Someone insulted someone else's momma and then a building got burned down and now the other guy has to retaliate and no one's backing down. Escalation until the airship's on fire and you've lost your hat. Honestly, thinking up casus belli's in feudal Japan is the easiest thing.Quote:
I was doing some light research into the early yakuza, the mafia in general, unions, and guilds to help go through different things organizations/guilds/clans/families or what have you would fight over and which would fit for the story. Even if it is distilled down to a few lines after the fact by Fancy during a truce banquet scene, with most of the actual scene spent showing that the families are still hostile as well as a meeting between Applebloom and Sweete Belle.
I know to the general reader it won't matter much, but I will always fear that someone out there there will be a odd guy much like me, who will snort and say to himself, "He couldn't even be bothered to think up a pause-able reason for the families/clans to be fighting! Couldn't he do some light research?!"
Do not show restraint when you're doing a visual gag. Have her flip that damn table because that'd be hilarious.Quote:
That's a great idea for a scene, and I have the perfect place for it in the plot. Originally for the introduction of Pinkie Pie I was going to have her on a tour/inspection of Fancy's mansion, which would be interrupted by the sound of a gunshot caused by a skirimsh between Rarity and a sneaking messenger Scoot and Pinkie rushing to the scene.
However a tea scene would be better for dialogue and characterization. I can imagine after a somewhat delicate and nice period of time during tea, Fancy offering Pinkie a "welcome gift", to test the waters. Something light and non-offensive to test the waters and which could easily be taken as a pleasantry since she only arrived yesterday. Pinkie, being the extreme non-corruptible zealous sort, basically-
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Well ok maybe not literally but you get the idea. (Then again, according to the meme, the Japanese name is literally "Return Tea Tables" so maybe it would fit....)
Depends on the execution, but this could work.Quote:
She begins listing the charges Celestia has leveled against the province and which are under investigation. Fancy will deny everything and state that while that may have been true in the past the province is now at peace, non-violent.etc. Only to be interrupted by the noise of the musket shot.
This way the character and motivations of Fancy and Pinkie are out in the open and out of the way quickly during a short scene change between the main fight scene between Rarity and Scoot. Perhaps with the scene cut happening with Rarity taking aim, leaving the idea and suspense with the viewer only to have it come back to the fore suddenly with the gunshot noise and the scene changing back to the action. And have Pinkie and Fancy showing up after the action has ended, only having the destruction left as evidence.
Or it could just interrupt the action. I dunno.
*Nod*Quote:
Responses on Pinkie and the backstory.
Thus I figured they would probably be somewhat hostile to Pinkie Pie and then I rolled with it using the first season finale as a guide and also how Pinkie wanted to prove herself as competent in "Baby Cakes". But now that you've pointed out, blanket reactions in a group are bad, some of the palace ponies are probably hostile, some not. However, I believe that most would have trouble taking Pinkie Pie seriously. She hasn't been educated like a true top of the elite and is an outsider of mediocre skill levels.
This is one of the common justifications I've seen for clothes in Equestria - it adds mystery and allure if you're not broadcasting the fact that you're a baker on your ass. So using clothes and masks as key images will give you a lot of power and a really cool explanation.Quote:
As for if Pinkie had adjusted to high society, I can actually see that if given enough time. However, I imagine that Pinkie Pie would have only have been in the palace training for 1-3 years, rather then raised up from a early age like canon Twilight in Canterlot. As a side note, I was going to add a line that she had already got her party cutie mark some time ago, but then I realized I didn't know if Samurai-Equestria had cutie marks. After all, there is less magic and a theme that is developing with these characters is that who they truly are (their passions, loves and wants) are often hidden behind a mask. A outward honest appraisal of who they are really wouldn't work. Besides they wear clothes anyway. Maybe the cutie marks are just extremely private? "Hey baby, what's your mark?" being a common sleazy pick up line.
Everything else seems fairly reasonable! :smallsmile:
Trying to draw something every day again, with smaller somethings. I only seem to succeed for short bursts anyway though, so I don't expect to keep it up for long. :smalltongue:
Welcome back! I like your OC on the right there.
Welcome to the pony drawthread, and congrats on your first step into pony art!
That's not too bad for a first time pic. Did you draw the structure underneath? That helps with the proportions. Also, needs more curves! Ponies rarely have straight lines on them.
Ahh, Rarity's mane and tail. Why did they have to be so crazy hard? Still, this looks good!
Day 102+103. Spent these days colouring Twilight and doing dozens of minor tweaks and edits to the line art. So far, so good. I even added a crude background, but frankly I'm going to scrap it as soon as I can find a decent tutorial on how to draw simple landscapes (know of any?). I'll also be adding shading to this one later.
Day... 3? I guess. Brain running on emergency coffee power, cognitive functions deterioriartting...
Anyway:
The comment on the top left was directed more at my general condition and the time at which the drawing was attempted than the expected quality, though not completely so. All things considered... not too bad.
Bonus points for anyone who can identify the anime.
Strike Witches?
Anyway, looks good!
Day 104 for me. Tried something different with the shading this time. A harder, cel-shaded kinda thing. Lemme know what you guys think.
The harder shadows work. They imply harder, directed light though, so you need to consider this direction, and find places where these shadows form to accentuate shape.
For instance I get the feeling that the far rear leg would have more of this solid shadow as the light direction seems to imply that the closer rear leg would cast this shadow just like the closer foreleg does on the other foreleg. Might be just my perception here though. A little shadowing along the mane could work, as well as around the gun assembly to make it look less flat. Just a little though, the current style you have won't look right if you try to go all raytrace on the drop shadows.
You can also use the lighter shading on the flat panels of the gun assembly and the undersides of the barrels to make them look even less flat, but that's entirely up to your preference.
Shading aside, there are two problems I can immediately see that you could look into and/or fix. First, the nostril looks like it's just the one nostril in the center of the nose, it might need to be further to the right at this angle if the nose has any width to it at all. Second, the shape of the mouth is a little odd, but I can't give a specific enough way to fix it. Maybe see if you can give Twilight a lower lip? I.e. so that it doesn't quite taper off to a point like that. Maybe.
All in all, the picture is looking pretty good. I quite like the HUD faceplate.
And yes, it's Strike Witches. Ponify everything!
Heh, why does this crossover work? I mean, two thirds of the pony populace can already fly or cast spells, why would pony Strike Witches even exist?
Suffered a distraction there, but still managed to take less time than on the previous.
Thanks for the advice, Sean. This has all helped a lot.
Added a few more shadows in. I can't believe I forgot to do the gun assembly *headdesk*. Also put a drop shadow down; not sure it's at the right angle for the light source. Come to think of it, I'm not sure what the light source is meant to be. At first I thought maybe I should do a laser or something just missing her, but I'm not sure the pose lends itself well to that. She's not exactly dodging here.
I knew there was something off about the mouth. After looking at a few refs, I curved the bottom lip around a bit, and also made the far side of her mouth concave.
Did I do too much shading on the tail, do you think?
Wondering if I should make the far side of the visor (where the screen crosses over itself) a darker colour or not.
Hah hah, awesome.
The only problem with this is that, to me, the leg-jet things (whatever they call them in the show) look either too long, or not far enough up the legs. I know you can't really get them all the way up to the thighs like in SW, but it just looks a little odd to me the way they are. I dunno if I'm explaining that well.
The lightsource seems to be a fairly nearby floodlight or equivalent, maybe the sun if it's a clear day, but it rarely gives shadows like that. Maybe it's a camera flash? The shading looks very good, btw.
Yep, now it's much improved. Shading on the tail is quite fine, though it looks a little solid at the moment. The show uses several darker lines running along the hair to show that it's not a solid object, you could do something like that as well.Quote:
I knew there was something off about the mouth. After looking at a few refs, I curved the bottom lip around a bit, and also made the far side of her mouth concave.
Did I do too much shading on the tail, do you think?
...nah. It looks quite fine as it is, even if not exactly realistic. What you should do, however, is the same thing you've remembered to do for the helmet - a specular shine. Add some bright yellowish-white streaks or blotches (depending on what shape you believe it to be) to the visor to show the reflecting light, though take care not to obstruct the eyes too much because the eyes are important and it's better to sacrifice realism than to lose them.Quote:
Wondering if I should make the far side of the visor (where the screen crosses over itself) a darker colour or not.
Also, line up the drop shadow of the closer rear leg to its source.
Strike Units they were called, I believe, and yes, they won't look quite as well no matter how I draw them. They're made for human legs, and are just too long, proportionally. They'll look downright silly if I make them shorter, so it's a lose-lose. If I keep them long I at least preserve the recognizable look. (and it's not as if I actually plan for this crossover to go anywhere, anyway)Quote:
Hah hah, awesome.
The only problem with this is that, to me, the leg-jet things (whatever they call them in the show) look either too long, or not far enough up the legs. I know you can't really get them all the way up to the thighs like in SW, but it just looks a little odd to me the way they are. I dunno if I'm explaining that well.
Gotcha. I'll do some more tweaking tomorrow, and then I'll get back to actually drawing. I did think about adding the shine to the visor, but wasn't sure exactly how to do it. I'll experiment tomorrow.
Yeah, that's what I figured.
Found this the other day, nice little reference page, figure I might give something like this a try for practice.
I can use some practice along those lines as well. Lining up the face to whatever expression is supposed to be displayed is surprisingly hard - even when you know what the expression you're going for is supposed to look like.
Instead of my usual timed practice, Day ... is it 5? Anyway, Day maybe-5 was spent sketching this. Ended up one panel short, because couldn't figure out a pose/expression that'd look convincing for it. This is in anticipation of RD's inevitable Outing today in the Heal/Hurt game. Sketchier than I'd like to do it, but rather short on time. Can't even estimate total time spent, but something on the order of four hours, including three discarded panel variants.
SpoilerThis is also a 33%-sized version, I went with "ridiculously huge" for canvas size.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/Random12.jpg
(Link Form)
(Link to ridiculously large original)
Day 106. Firstly, the Power Armour Twilight pic, hopefully now finished, barring anything obvious that needs adding.
Spoilerhttp://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i9...lightfinal.jpg
I'm not sure about the positioning of the shine on the visor, but it's there.
Wondering if I should also blur the shadow a bit so that it's not as hard.
And also, real human face practice, take 2. Moderate success.
This is actually a success for what it is - a sketch layer.
This type of solid inking will never produce a good looking face. It'll always look weird - solid black laser lines being used to denote more complicated structures of shadow and discolouration. That's why lips always look so weird when you outline them in black - because they're not separate objects, they're just a slight change in tone!
Once you have a sketch layer like this you can begin painting on top of it. But it's not going to produce a good-looking image on it's own no matter how much time you spent on it.
Take a look at this picture, or this. Where are the hard lines? What's the difference between lips and the skin? See the discolouration and shadows around the eyes?
If you want hard lines to look good as a face you're going to have to stylise to a degree. If you want to do realism you've got to understand that something like this is a good sketch layer, from whence you can start applying more complicated shading and paints.
I have been drawing, just really nothing to show for it. A combination of experiments with coloring as well as a combination of days when my drawings were just... Off. Like an art block but you can still draw, everything just looks bad. Like your hand got gimped up or something. But I got better. Or at least as as good or bad as I ever was.
A dragon shogun and a slight wizard of oz thing... Can't use it... But that would be awesome...
But dragons, as well as griffons and diamond dogs as barbarian nations at the gates would be nice. More Roman/China then Japan, but it would be cool. A good reason for all the daiymos to get along besides fear/reverence of the alicorns.
Thanks! This name is now canon.
Starting it with a bang, I'll have to do that scene.
This is true, a small slight can lead to a ongoing feud. But at the same time, what has me worried is that the Apples are stronger number wise and bringing pure muscle and weight to bare so to speak. So I'm afraid to paint them as the bad guys sense before the truce they are winning and Rarity Belle are losing. And everyone cheers for the smaller one, I want the conflict to be a bit grayer then that. Granted, if Rarity is shooting at Scoot, it'll be hard to cheer for one side alone.
I read that one of the things that yakazu fought over was stall space in markets. I was thinking that the Apple family would be an amaglation of rural farming families and Rarity Belle would be based in the city proper (Ponyville? Need to think up the name for the city/town), and the conflict would be over the stall space/prices which Rarity Belle largely controlled before the conflict. While Rarity Belle is smaller in numbers it is richer and has the founds to hire people to fight for them. Like Dash and Shy.
Noted and thanks for the advice, drawing wise I need to work on my comedy and action scenes. Two things this project will hopefully help.
Thank you for the comments! Now that I'm over my art block thing, I'll get back to work on setting and story.
Your Twilight is looking good. I'm scanning my brain for something to nitpick, but I can't find anything major. Cell shading looks good with your stuff, are you going to make this your main shading method?
I have to agree with Thanqol on the face though.
I must say, the the way you draw your wings, makes me jealous.
Need to practice drawing wings...
Day 34-35-36,
Spoilerhttp://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6887/day343536.jpg
I was working on this one on and off over the last three days.
Ninja Dash and Shinobi Shy. Colored and with wings this time. Not much to say for this one. The colors aren't the best, but it is what it is. I don't think they'll wear red scarves and stuff on missions but I like red, it adds a little splash to nin dark grayish stuff. I gave Dash a, Shy fights with her fists when she is forced to. She is more of a sneaky shy ninja who people don't notice.
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3610/day36.jpg
I was experimenting with more of a painting style of coloring with no success. But today I had a eureka moment when I figured out that if two different colors/body parts are besides each other, then the border should be darker and bolder. It tends to look better. Still, not much, but it was a interesting experiment. I'm going to full around with this some more and then take another stab at that Luna Cake as I think this softer painty style like this would be better for a picture like that.
Remember, historically China spent a fair few thousand years being ruled by the Mongols (before they eventually acculturated), and as such Japan regarded China for a long time as a land of savages and barbarians. Mongol China even tried to invade Japan, to be stopped by the kamikazi. The Shogun originally came to power as being the general who conquered the northern Ainu tribes on the Emperor's behalf. Finally, there was Nobonaga's short-lived invasion of Korea. Those have been the few occasions Japan wasn't engaged in GLORIOUS ISOLATION.
The perception of the world being filled with barbarians was there, but it waned between events. The periods of massive in-fighting tended to come only after they'd forgotten that the rest of the world existed.
Mercenaries. Which was essentially what most Ronin, and ninja clans, of the time were.Quote:
This is true, a small slight can lead to a ongoing feud. But at the same time, what has me worried is that the Apples are stronger number wise and bringing pure muscle and weight to bare so to speak. So I'm afraid to paint them as the bad guys sense before the truce they are winning and Rarity Belle are losing. And everyone cheers for the smaller one, I want the conflict to be a bit grayer then that. Granted, if Rarity is shooting at Scoot, it'll be hard to cheer for one side alone.
This works!Quote:
I read that one of the things that yakazu fought over was stall space in markets. I was thinking that the Apple family would be an amaglation of rural farming families and Rarity Belle would be based in the city proper (Ponyville? Need to think up the name for the city/town), and the conflict would be over the stall space/prices which Rarity Belle largely controlled before the conflict. While Rarity Belle is smaller in numbers it is richer and has the founds to hire people to fight for them. Like Dash and Shy.
Idea: Make Dash a Ronin. She goes in big and obvious, bellowing challenges and setting things on fire, as cover for Fluttershy's much more underhanded techniques. Take their personalities to the extreme of either end, thereby covering each other's weaknesses and maximising their strengths.Quote:
Ninja Dash and Shinobi Shy. Colored and with wings this time. Not much to say for this one. The colors aren't the best, but it is what it is. I don't think they'll wear red scarves and stuff on missions but I like red, it adds a little splash to nin dark grayish stuff. I gave Dash a, Shy fights with her fists when she is forced to. She is more of a sneaky shy ninja who people don't notice.
The samurai rides out to fight the Ronin, the shinobi breaks into his house and steals the gold, and when she gives the thumbs up to the Ronin on the way out they both cut and run. Making dishonour fun!
Ooooooh, I see what you mean. That's a great observation, I'ma practise with it.Quote:
I was experimenting with more of a painting style of coloring with no success. But today I had a eureka moment when I figured out that if two different colors/body parts are besides each other, then the border should be darker and bolder. It tends to look better. Still, not much, but it was a interesting experiment. I'm going to full around with this some more and then take another stab at that Luna Cake as I think this softer painty style like this would be better for a picture like that.
EDIT:
You know what? I'm mentally invested enough and this is a cool enough project for me to make the offer. Bakuel, I'm prepared to offer full assistance with this Samurai Equestria project; whatever I can offer that you need.
Probably the most useful thing I can offer is colouring linework; I'm okay at it, and there's probably going to be a lot of it to do. I'm less good at linework and composition, but I've got a decent theoretical grounding to critique from. Whatever else you want that I'm capable of - writing, idea bouncing, samurai movie wisecracks, poor singing - ask and I'll do it; I shall be an obedient vassal in all respects.
I also understand if it's a labour of love and you don't want the assistance, but I should at least make the offer :smallsmile:
I think I kind of knew that really. I just kind of, I dunno, overlooked it?
I'll do something with it soon.
Anyone have any good brush settings for this kind of thing? I'm using Photoshop CS5.
Thanks! I've got a silly idea for this pic that I'll sort out tomorrow, perhaps.
I'm debating whether or not to post it on Ponibooru, if only because I'm very wary of season finale spoilers being leaked and if they are, Ponibooru will be covered in them. EDIT: Did it anyway. My filter tags seem to be working. :smalltongue:
I guess so. It seems to work for me, but I might experiment with other types too.
Day 107. I didn't plan this, I couldn't think of anything so I just started drawing and... it just kinda drew itself.
That would be awesome if you could!
The one thing the project really needs is a writer/editor, not so much for plot (even though advice and comments would be good there too!) but really I must say again, I can't write natural or even movie grad dialogue worth snot. And I wouldn't even be able to attempt the Apple's accent. Some of the enjoyment of MLP is somewhat in the dialogue, the difference between say Fancy, AJ, and Fluttershy for example, if these difference aren't there the story would lose quiet a bit.
Coloring linework would also help, but that would be all the way at the end stage. Because it's not going to be a long graphic novel, when the push comes to shove I want to get all the penciling finished first so we can all be sure that the panels and scenes flow well.
And it isn't that much a personal project, in my mind it's more like practice. Or rather, a trial by fire. I have always toyed with making comics. And I don't want to start with some long epic over ambitious tale that goes nowhere, but a shorter tale with a clear end already plotted. The type of small graphic novel someone could read in a hour or so. Since ponies have occupied my thoughts this past year and I love elseworlds/twisted mirror/what-if-type scenarios and settings, this is the result.
It would be foolish of me to turn down help or suggestions by people other people for this type of maiden project, which is part of the reason why I threw the concept out there while it is still in it's infancy.
But I should warn you, the idea is still in it's formative phase. It's like a ghost of a concept. And it's not even follow plotted out yet. I'm afraid that I might lose sight of the goal or something might happen. So for now, I want to keep throwing around and organizing ideas.
I don't mean to be annoying, but the first thing I thought when I saw that pony was it was straight from the 50s... It's probably the hair, but that *could* also be a leather jacket and white t-shirt. It could be...
Alright, maybe I'm crazy.
Day 37,
Spoiler
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5605/day37.jpg
More adventures in painting! Yay!
Did Applejack drinking. While on a barrel. I dunno. It came to me while I was doing my daily commute and is what I drew and colored when I got home. I think it's much stronger then I my painting yesterday. Mildly pleased with it, I must say painting is fun! And fast!
Who knew that getting rid of the black linework would be so liberating?
Then I drew Fluttershy as a shrine maiden. A ugly giant sketch, I don't know why I made it so big. Anyway, the idea is that Fluttershy's day job is as a shrine maiden, I need to write a blurb on Fluttershy and Dash.
But the problem is, what are these shrines dedicated to? The cult of the alicorns, ala Roman Imperial cult? Or to various natural phenomenon such as mountains, rivers, magic, nature and stuff like that? Or famous dead ponies? Or all of the above depending on the shrine?
It's odd, I wanted there to be shrines, yet I'm having trouble thinking up an actual reason for them to exist. They already have goddesses in the alicorns. I'm leaning toward all of the above, shrines being like public monuments that rich types people dedicate to something or another to show everyone how awesome they are and the shrine staff just charged with keeping up with it, tending the gardens, animals and whatever.
Sure! :smallsmile: Define the scope and limits of the writing you'd have me do, if you would - leave me to my own devices and I'll rewatch my entire Kurosawa collection and write you a novel.
The other way to do this is as a dialogue writer - you storyboard out the key scenes and plot and I add the specific dialogue to advance the stated objectives. I actually enjoy working under constraints, makes me think more creatively.
The third option is wait for you to do a draft and then go through with rewrites (i.e. not just commenting on what doesn't work, but actually providing specific examples of how to fix it). This is a touch dubious because dramatic changes in writing style tend to stand out, but should be less obvious in a comic form.
Absolutely. My own linework is rather medicore so I don't have as much to offer on that stage.Quote:
Coloring linework would also help, but that would be all the way at the end stage. Because it's not going to be a long graphic novel, when the push comes to shove I want to get all the penciling finished first so we can all be sure that the panels and scenes flow well.
*Nod nod*Quote:
And it isn't that much a personal project, in my mind it's more like practice. Or rather, a trial by fire. I have always toyed with making comics. And I don't want to start with some long epic over ambitious tale that goes nowhere, but a shorter tale with a clear end already plotted. The type of small graphic novel someone could read in a hour or so. Since ponies have occupied my thoughts this past year and I love elseworlds/twisted mirror/what-if-type scenarios and settings, this is the result.
It would be foolish of me to turn down help or suggestions by people other people for this type of maiden project, which is part of the reason why I threw the concept out there while it is still in it's infancy.
It's a good process, keep the ideas churning until they naturally settle into their optimal state. It is important to chose the key points, the story's themes, early on, though, because everything naturally structures around those. I find three themes is a good rule of thumb for longer stories; a short piece can get by on one or two.Quote:
But I should warn you, the idea is still in it's formative phase. It's like a ghost of a concept. And it's not even follow plotted out yet. I'm afraid that I might lose sight of the goal or something might happen. So for now, I want to keep throwing around and organizing ideas.
I know, right? Painting rules.Quote:
More adventures in painting! Yay!
Did Applejack drinking. While on a barrel. I dunno. It came to me while I was doing my daily commute and is what I drew and colored when I got home. I think it's much stronger then I my painting yesterday. Mildly pleased with it, I must say painting is fun! And fast!
Who knew that getting rid of the black linework would be so liberating?
Shinto is great for this. A hundred, a thousand years ago someone builds a shrine for any of those reasons, or hangs a rope around a really big tree, or puts up a giant gate outside a mountain, and then it just becomes part of the landscape. It's actual meaning becomes lost, even to the priests. You can be walking through a forest and find that certain trees have been marked as sacred - who knows why? Maybe that roadside statue is a temple, or a grave, or where an ancient demon was imprisoned?Quote:
But the problem is, what are these shrines dedicated to? The cult of the alicorns, ala Roman Imperial cult? Or to various natural phenomenon such as mountains, rivers, magic, nature and stuff like that? Or famous dead ponies? Or all of the above depending on the shrine?
Mostly, these things just are.
Shinto's other big aspect is that it's a religion of celebration. The gods must be kept happy - let's party! Let's throw a giant festival with costumes and sake and floats and sake and food and sake! Let's build giant fires so that the spirits can dance along with us! Let's pick up that giant, heavy altar and get a bunch of near-naked men to drink a lot of sake and carry it around town! It's very much a religion of the lower class and the superstitious. There is a lot of sake in shinto.Quote:
It's odd, I wanted there to be shrines, yet I'm having trouble thinking up an actual reason for them to exist. They already have goddesses in the alicorns. I'm leaning toward all of the above, shrines being like public monuments that rich types people dedicate to something or another to show everyone how awesome they are and the shrine staff just charged with keeping up with it, tending the gardens, animals and whatever.
Interestingly, a lot of the wealthy - especially the samurai - were far more into buddhism. The buddhist temples were generally far larger and more elaborate than the folklore of shinto. Buddhism is also a lot more dour and grim than shinto; shinto was the religion of marriages and births and holy days, buddhism was the religion of funerals.
As to reasons why these two things are, well, let's trace the two back to their historic origins - ancient folklore for shinto, and an import from China for buddhism. You don't need to justify an origin for the shinto half of it; that comes with the visuals. It's animism in it's purest sense. Buddhism is more complex, and something of a more organised, political force. Buddhism provides a way for individuals to mentally sidestep their religious obligations to the emperor - perhaps dangerous ideas from the chinese-expy dragons encouraging subtle dissent against the alicorns?
EDIT: I just realised that the implication of this is that Discord is the Buddha.
Religion generally didn't dominate Japanese politics in the same way as it did in medieval Europe, so think about if you're going to include it at the same time as you're looking for explanations.
I'm sorry, I think I started doing this by accident. And given how naturally and easily the writing flows, and how long I've spent fighting my brain to get something started, this might accidentally work out as a full length piece. I'm very sorry. I might have inadvertently stolen your idea.
Here's the opening.
But! Hopefully the way this particular story will work out will be as something that can co-exist in the same universe as your intended comic, and the two might be able to feed into each other; alternately, the comic could cover one sequence of the larger story. I don't know; I don't know quite where I'm going with this and I want to talk it over with you in more detail one way or another because your eye for worldbuilding is really stoking my creativity for this.
I'm sorry again. Sometimes this just happens to me. I'll pull the plug if I'm really stepping on your toes here (which means, I'll still write it but just not show anyone); I'll also defer to any story judgements you might have. Let me know what you think!
(I guess I'm writing fancomic-fanfic here?)
The proper term is "Recursive Fanfic", I believe.
And that looks like the beginning of a very interesting story. I can spot no errors, grammatical or otherwise, and I've no experience with chinese/japanese/whatever history and/or traditions, so can't comment on the accuracy of any descriptions. Whether or not it actually is, it seems accurate, so it works at least as verisimilitude.
Oh, and I've nothing to post again. Biiig surprise there. :smallsigh:
edit: well, except this, but it ain't much progress and I really don't know why I even bother with it.
Well... yeah. That's precisely what it was meant to be. Or is there some sort of other interpretation I'm missing here?
Day 108 has thus far been unproductive. I did do that "Pony faces from different angles" bit, but I'm not feeling very enthusiastic today, so I admit I didn't put much effort into it. Not worth posting :/
If the project ever gets to that stage, then I'm sure we'll figure out the best method.
I'll keep stewing with the religion.
SpoilerIn Equestria asking prayer style religion isn't really needed. The goddesses are right there, Twilight goes batty in ponyville, Spike doesn't need a ritual or prayer, he just writes a letter to Celestia, she shows up after the sunsets and comes down deus ex machina style.
But, to go a little bit deeper then this type of religion and into the pony mind set, no religious/philosophical/world-view is really needed at all. Pony's are, after all, pretty happy creatures. Not to get into realworld religious/philosophical thought, but it seems to me that for people most philosophies/world-views or what have you center around the fact that life is short and filled with problems. Whether secular/religious, theist/atheist, or what have you, it's always a question of how to build a better society (what is a "better" society is the rub) and dealing with the issues and problems of life. Some are more personal then others, some deal more with society. But all the great philosophies, religions, and what-have-yous of civilization have dealt with what the correct way to go about things is.
Since Equestria is pretty much a *almost* utopia and whenever they stray from the path of friendship wendigos attack, ponies need to stay happy and friendly or else.
If a human was transported to Equestria and tried to sell his common ideas about society, whether he be a secular humanist/christian/islamic/jewish/buddhist/capitalist/communist/socialist or what have you he would be hard pressed for any converts. I can imagine if he mentioned the importance of human/pony advancement or love and forgiveness or right and wrong or whatever, he would get some head noddings and agreements. But actually true understanding going on like another human being would? Probably not. And I'm not even going to touch the more economical world-views.
Since Samurai-Equestria has a lot more problems then normal Equestria and life is harder, I can kinda see ponies turning toward various traditions, religions, and philosophies to make sense of their lives. On a more personal level, you could say that the ponies are less in tune with their world and their place in it. Their magic is more distant, their goddesses, while still there, are more distant as well. Some ponies might turn to the sincerity of various shrine gardens for relaxation, some might follow the codes/philosophies lain down by famous moral teachers (some spiritual and some more secular both types having both sincere and charlatans out for a quick buck), some may follow old traditions (some of the rituals have actually magical benefit, think zap apples, others are just superstitions). Others may prefer to live in the moment. But one way or another, the ponies are more human in that ideas about the right way to live life and order society are out there. And everyone, even if they try to just live in the moment, can't help but be at least somewhat concerned with what is the "correct" way to go about things.
Since magic exists, some of the shrines may have power or house/entrap deities like Discord. I have to think on this, it will have zero effect on this small story though.
You stole my idea! http://i.imgur.com/Sy0s7.png
Spoiler
:smalltongue:
Go for it keep writing it! Honestly, I'm happy that a concept of mine could serve as inspiration for you and got you writing again! In a weird way, I actually managed to pitch a concept. That's the first time that's ever happened. :smallbiggrin:
I don't know if it could take place in the same story though, you use the mane six in a different light then I plan to. Especially Twilight and Dash, I had put Dash as a ninja, and Twilight was going to be a secondary character with Rarity Belle and a foil for Rarity. A brilliant commoner/ accountant/steward/tutor/would-be scholar saving up for the entrance fee for the imperial examinations at the capital.*
You seem to be planning out a different story, maybe another look at the setting? Another world? Can't really offer any adivice on it, you need to write more of it!
You can go ahead and put it out for the generally public too, this doesn't really matter. At worst more people will learn about the concept and setting. Some of the thunder, so to speak, would be lost if I ever get out of my hole and finish this project and everyone already knows about the setting and concept, but honestly, it's not the thunder that matters but the actual lightning. As long as I can produce a half-way decent fan product with my current artistic abilities, I'm good. It would be a personal milestone. If that makes sense. Your story has the potential to be great, especially if it's spontaneous. I don't write but the best art generally has some spontaneity. To not publish it for public enjoyment would be sad.
Besides, I want to see where the story goes. :smallwink:
*
SpoilerThink introverted anti-social Twilight without the patronage of Celestia. Powerful magic, but afraid to go overboard with showing it as many people react not with wonder but fear and apprehension. Would rather be known by her intellect then by her brute magic strength as some show pony or mercenary. Magic isn't as powerful as it is in normal Equestria, most unicorns only having basic telekinesis and being only able to learn minor spells, more advanced and powerful spells being rarer (fewer people can actually cast them) and located at the capital library under lock and key. After all, the alicorns can't have every single Trixie style magic cutie mark pony getting ahold of powerful reality binding spells.
Outside of the elite scholars and magicians with access to these scrolls, commoner unicorns with an affinity with magic turn to either show business, or as mercenaries (think using telekinesis to hurl weapons or just tear things up, Psi Hulk smash!). Or they can save their money and set their eyes on passing the imperial examinations and become an official scholar or bureaucrat and work their way up the ranks until they get access. A commoner may not have much hope to ever reach the top from the bottom, but if they are brilliant enough they just might.
Yes, the Imperial Examinations are more China, Ming especially, then Japan. But as Celestia's government in the capital is nominally based on merit, rather then nobility (even though it doesn't really work out that way) I wanted there to be a system in place for a commoner to rise up in the ranks. Richer nobles can easily bypass some of the examination levels through bribes, patronage/interviews by high official scholars/officials, and so on. I know Japan actually had academic system and things like that, but there is much less info on the schools, universities and so on.
Sorry, I typed that one at 1-2 in the morning, my mind was halfway gone. I imagined that referencing the Fonzi outright would get me tarred, feathered and thrown in a river. The other thing I was thinking it could have been would have been a stereotypical yanki Japanese delinquent pony.
We need to go deeper.
"If"? I'ma drive you into it with whips and chains!
General agreement on religious thoughts, but forum rules prevent me from discussing it further.Quote:
I'll keep stewing with the religion.
Blur the boundaries of myth and reality. Keep outright supernatural elements absent but have them be discussed in the same way as real myths.Quote:
Since magic exists, some of the shrines may have power or house/entrap deities like Discord. I have to think on this, it will have zero effect on this small story though.
*Deep breath of relief* I'm really glad to hear that. This story's just happening and I can hardly stop it.Quote:
You stole my idea! http://i.imgur.com/Sy0s7.png
Spoiler
:smalltongue:
Go for it keep writing it! Honestly, I'm happy that a concept of mine could serve as inspiration for you and got you writing again! In a weird way, I actually managed to pitch a concept. That's the first time that's ever happened. :smallbiggrin:
*Nod nod* I am taking a significantly different tack with this; the key elements all came together in my head last night. The core themes are 'Echoes of Friendship' and 'Flawed Harmony'. The first half is going to be smooth and fluid, I know of the powerful centre point and all the emotion and power there and then I can see the story break into a hundred gleaming shards. It feels more like the setup for a series than a story right now. Ah, I can do so much with this!Quote:
I don't know if it could take place in the same story though, you use the mane six in a different light then I plan to. Especially Twilight and Dash, I had put Dash as a ninja, and Twilight was going to be a secondary character with Rarity Belle and a foil for Rarity. A brilliant commoner/ accountant/steward/tutor/would-be scholar saving up for the entrance fee for the imperial examinations at the capital.*
You seem to be planning out a different story, maybe another look at the setting? Another world? Can't really offer any adivice on it, you need to write more of it!
I'm nicking my own idea about the Dragon-Shogun back as the primary antagonist.
Good philosophy and wise words, thank you. My offer of unlimited assistance to your comic remains and will remain open.Quote:
You can go ahead and put it out for the generally public too, this doesn't really matter. At worst more people will learn about the concept and setting. Some of the thunder, so to speak, would be lost if I ever get out of my hole and finish this project and everyone already knows about the setting and concept, but honestly, it's not the thunder that matters but the actual lightning. As long as I can produce a half-way decent fan product with my current artistic abilities, I'm good. It would be a personal milestone. If that makes sense. Your story has the potential to be great, especially if it's spontaneous. I don't write but the best art generally has some spontaneity. To not publish it for public enjoyment would be sad.
I do too! It's going to be just as much an adventure for me!Quote:
Besides, I want to see where the story goes. :smallwink:
The traditional way this happened was a noble paying a smart commoner to be a 'tutor'. They wind up being a vassal/courtier/steward of the aristocrat, getting to ply their trade and letting someone else claim the credit. It's possible to better yourself in life under feudalism, it's only when you want class mobility that things become a problem. The only real way to legitimise it is to marry a noble.Quote:
Yes, the Imperial Examinations are more China, Ming especially, then Japan. But as Celestia's government in the capital is nominally based on merit, rather then nobility (even though it doesn't really work out that way) I wanted there to be a system in place for a commoner to rise up in the ranks. Richer nobles can easily bypass some of the examination levels through bribes, patronage/interviews by high official scholars/officials, and so on. I know Japan actually had academic system and things like that, but there is much less info on the schools, universities and so on.
Hitting Special Effects Failure on this thing... too much glows? Gotta scrap all those lighting layers and do something saner. And maybe refine the whole "rainbow beam chest blaster" concept... too much like Care Bears..:smalleek:
In addition, can't choose a fitting background. What would be fitting here?
And suggestions for a better caption very very welcome, if you have them. What I got doesn't sound catchy enough.
And of course, the right way to address "too much glow" is "add even more glow".
At least it's more refined this time. (plus cleaned up dodgy coloring and redesigned the helmet)
Any thoughts on it? At all?
I'm sorry, I'm stuck trying to think up a witty caption. My brain is simply unable to move beyond failing at that.
Otherwise, the only quibble I have is the shape of the chest plate; it doesn't look like it's designed to be shooting lasers. Most other stuff is beyond my ability to comprehension critique thing.