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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Ok, it's help a golden oldie time if people are willing. I'm giving serious thought to getting back into 40k after... well over a decade of abscence Knocking on for 15 years. For the record, Tyrranids were so new when I started that no one had them, Dark Eldar were unheard of and I vaguely remember mention of Sororitas squads somewhere but they were hardly the faction they are today.
So, I'm in the market for a new faction. I played space marines last time, had a fairly nifty little Blood Angels Army of 2 tac squads (missile and flamer each), Death Company (back when the box came with 10 models, included a chaplain and you could tool the lads up with whatever you particularly felt like instead of the "lite" version I see we have here, 5 models, bolt pistol and chainsword and 1 power sword... what ? no fun !!) Captain Tycho back when he was a sort of gold iirc and a Predator with Lascannon sponsons. Don't ask me how many points that was, I honestly can't remember and it probably wasn't a legal army build (we were all pretty young and preferred to just play although I am curious if someone'd run the points)
Anyway, I enjoyed using that army and, after a game of the Black Reach set at my local GW, I feel ready to have another go.
I need a recommendation please. For a new army. Assuming that money is taken out of the equation (ie not too worried about having to buy metal mini's - I know a good shop for 2nd hand and, of course, ebay is always there), I would like a sample 1000 pt list because I don't have the codex for anything, don't know what's there any more on the wargear and special rules front and can't remember the overwhelming majority of rules. More to the point, I don't know what's new in the intervening 15 years that sucks. Just from reading this thread, I see that the new Land Speeder is getting a kicking. I would never have known about that.
Anyway, here's a few little bits about me as a player which, if someone is kind enough to help a poor, addled and confused oldie out, will hopefully be helpful.
I do not like Chaos or the Tyrranids as factions. Sorry, they're right out, they don't light my fire with the fluff and I've never liked the miniatures. Likewise Necrons, who, I'm afraid, just look boring.
Dark Eldar will not suit me at all I feel, same with Tau. I've never been comfortable with the theory of the Dark Eldar style of play (I do like being able to hold my ground if I need it) and I'm a bit of a small time assault fiend (which is where my old Death Company came in but does kind of let the Tau out).
Psychic powers... I do like the sound of these. That was one of the things my last little army really lacked so it'd be nice to play with them a bit. Not go overboard or anything, but nice to have it to play with.
Vehicles. I had (and still have, now I come to examine it) a love - terror relationship with vehicles. I love having them and live in terror of not having something to kill my opponants big tank with. The latter is far, far more important to me than having a big tank of my own though.
Anyway, I'm pretty easy with what people suggest (as long as it isn't Chaos or 'Nids... *growl*) so could someone help me out with a suitable general army list please ?
Thank you in advance.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KilltheToy
I don't mean to pry, but which chapter? I plan on doing the same thing as soon as I finish my Chaos force and get some Space Marine models.
I also have this plan to get a bunch of Sternguard models and paint them up as Deathwatch, just so I'll have an excuse to paint up some marines from Chapters that have intrested me.
Not prying at all - read all about them here: http://collegiatitanica.blogspot.com...d-archive.html
Timberwolf - Blood Angels currently have a free to download PDF Codex available on the GW website: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/co...sp?aId=7000010
It is 100% official and legal, and quite competative.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
...But Deathwatch are all black and silver (except for the right shoulder pad), you don't get to paint Marines from other Chapters. :smallconfused:
You do get to paint one shoulder pad though- in the colours and logo of Chapter- so you can have a squad of Deathwatch, each man with a different shoulder pad.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
New army, not including:
Chaos
Chaos Daemons
Necrons
Tyranids
Tau
Dark Eldar
And preferably something that isn't Space Marines...
Well that leaves you a choice of:
Orks
Eldar
Imperial Guard
Inquisition.
If you want to be able to use those old models you have the Inquisition are a pretty good choice. A Witch Hunter's army with Space Marine allies.
If you don't care about using the old models then I'd go with Orks. Fun, easy to use and pretty powerful.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
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Originally Posted by
hamishspence
You do get to paint one shoulder pad though.
I know. I mentioned the Shoulder Pad. :smallconfused:
One shoulder pad hardly counts as a 'marine from a different Chapter' when it comes to painting.
Quote:
Originally posted by Selrahc
Well that leaves you a choice of:
Orks, Eldar, Imperial Guard or Inquisition.
...Hey, I've been playing for 14 years straight. To be honest, not a lot has changed in army composition. If you can remember how things used to be, you're not far wrong. Although 'Character' models have been definitely toned down. Vortex Grenades are out, as is Overwatch. :smallfrown:
It depends on your playstyle. Of course. I'm assuming as an ex-Blood Angel, you're used to be up close and personal. Are you looking for something different? If so, go for Imperial Guard. Lots of troops, lots of guns. Sit back, wait for the enemy to come to you...And run. Then sit back some more.
Orks are...Less powerful Blood Angels. But, they make up for the lack of quality in quantity. The opposite of Imperial Guard. Roughly the same amount of troops...But you'll be going forward.
I don't really recommened Daemonhunters for someone just getting back into the hobby. The Codex is outdated and underpowered. Although the models are beautiful.
Witch Hunters Sisters of Battle are a good list. Have Power Armour and Bolters and a lot of fun rules. If you're used to Character models running around causing mayhem all on their own, a Cannoness is one of the few HQ (Character) models that can still do it.
For a new player, who isn't quite sure of the rules I will always recommend Eldar (even though I rarely play with own).
One, they're neither Space Marines 'nor 'Nids. :smallamused:
Secondly, they're a 'balanced' list. If you're one of those guys that likes to have one of every unit...Well, if you do that with Eldar, you've still got a pretty good army. In fact, due to the Eldar list, it's pretty much encouraged that you do take one of everything.
I'll write a mock-up list once you've decided on an army. Another good choice, is to ask the GW-store guys. They're extremely knowledgeable about their own hobby. Just don't let them talk you into buying anything or convince you that 'X unit is awesome'. Come back to the Playground and tell us what they said and we'll set you in the right direction.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
If you wanted a squad of marines from different Chapters in one squad there are a plethora of ways you could fluff it.
If the Chapter is on a long campaign, then the Sternguard could be a squad of Space Marines who have been separated from their original chapters and are waiting until the campaign is over before being reassigned to them.
Or they could be a chapter with a proud tradition of learning the best means to combat their foes, and who exchange warriors with several other chapters to better learn other methods of warfare.
If you don't use any of the famous chapter's colour schemes then you could call it a remnant squad. The last sons of Space Marine chapters that are irredeemably destroyed, or members of chapters from which the majority of the marines fell to Chaos.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Edited my above post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Selrahc
If the Chapter is on a long campaign, then the Sternguard could be a squad of Space Marines who have been separated from their original chapters and are waiting until the campaign is over before being reassigned to them.
...A friend of mine did that for Armageddon waaay back in 3rd Ed. Just looked up the 'Armageddon table' for which Chapters were involved, some didn't have colour schemes, just names. Some were 'icon Chapters', some, like the Scorpions, were just a name and a colour scheme...No fluff aside from the fact that they took part in the Third War for Armageddon.
Then painted them all up, made them look suitably covered in gore and battle-damage, and called them Deathwatch.
To be honest...The unit looked pretty stupid being entirely different colours from the rest of his army and from each other...Just saying. :smallfrown:
Also, canonically, there were only two active Deathwatch teams on Armageddon at that time. A little bit odd. But, I pay attention to fluff.
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Or they could be a chapter with a proud tradition of learning the best means to combat their foes, and who exchange warriors with several other chapters to better learn other methods of warfare.
Again, I have another friend who plays Marines (seriously, stop playing them!), thanks to Dawn of War II, all his Sergeants in his army are painted black (with a silver arm) with a random Chapter badge to lead all his squads. He also asks just about everyone if they have any spare Inquisitor pads from the Commander box. He makes his Deathwatch count. :smallwink:
What's funny though, is that he doesn't have any Sternguard. :smallconfused:
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If you don't use any of the famous chapter's colour schemes then...
Again, my understanding was that KilltheToy is/was painting them up as Deathwatch. As such, I think colour schemes are irrelavent. Just pick a few colours that you like, and slap them on the Shoulder. If that colour happens to be really common (blue, red, green, etc), then you say they're from a 'Famous' Chapter...
There's a lot of Chapters that are just a name and a colour scheme.
There's even more Chapters that are just a name.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Okay so Now I got what I calculated to be a 820 points army from a tactical squad, and the stuff from assault on black reach. Wondering what to get next, thinking about some scouts with snipers, or some kind of vehichle. Got two questions though.
Do I need a Drop Pod to use Deep Strike. If not, then what's special about it?
Where can I find the rules about allies? Cause I was considering getting a Witch Hunter Immolator for my army at some point.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
You couldn't take a lone immolator, because you can't take Heavy Support from an allied list. However, some units can take immolators as dedicated transports. Drop Pods are needed for certain marines to deep strike, basically, marines that aren't terminators or jump infantry.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
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Originally Posted by
Copper8642
You couldn't take a lone immolator, because you can't take Heavy Support from an allied list. However, some units can take immolators as dedicated transports. Drop Pods are needed for certain marines to deep strike, basically, marines that aren't terminators or jump infantry.
[nitpick] Or Land Speeders [/nitpick].
Drop Pods are just a dedicated transport, which you deepstrike unto the battlefield. The Drop Pod is still there, and is important in terms of LOS, cover, kill points, ect. - plus it has a gun of its own.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Selrahc
Well that leaves you a choice of:
Orks
Eldar
Imperial Guard
Inquisition.
If you want to be able to use those old models you have the Inquisition are a pretty good choice. A Witch Hunter's army with Space Marine allies.
If you don't care about using the old models then I'd go with Orks. Fun, easy to use and pretty powerful.
Unfortunately, I don't still have the minis. I have no idea what happened to them. Still, and the tac squads looked really dodgy compared with what they look like now so I can start afresh, you know, the ones where you just glued he boltgun on and they all looked and stood the same..I could play marines again, they fit very nicely with my preferred way of doing things (shoot, shoot shoot, shoot the burning heretic and then cut cut cut, cut off the heretics head as Elan might put it.)
The GW guys, Cheesegear, I had a little chat with when I was in there. I didn't put it here because I was interested in what others might suggest They said Sisters based on my avowed dislike of Chaos.
I could definately go along with that although I do feel that they're a bit mariney. Still, I'm interested in Eldar too.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
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Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
As for the Force Weapons vs. Eternal Warrior...I've never actually seen that argument until now. That must mean either a) I'm not using my SM-Librarian or my Grand Master enough, or b) There aren't that many units in the game with Eternal Warrior. Or both. :smallwink:
I have been lazy, and should have been stressing NEMESIS Force Weapons - the ones that go "You have taken a wound, so if I pass a Leadership test then your model suffers Instant Death with no saves".
Having said that, I usually play as Eldar (Phoenix Lords all have Eternal Warrior, meaning that it effects something like 7/9 of my special characters) and my most common enemy is Chaos (Daemon Peinces and a lot of their special characters, also) so I accept that my personal viewpoint may be skewed :smallwink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jinura
Do I need a Drop Pod to use Deep Strike. If not, then what's special about it?
Where can I find the rules about allies? Cause I was considering getting a Witch Hunter Immolator for my army at some point.
Also from what Narazil said, if a Deep Striking unit lands on impassable terrain after scattering (like a building, or an enemy squad) they are telefragged, and the entire unit is destroyed outright. Bad times.
If you put them in a Drop Pod, they gain the 'Inertial Guidence System' rule which lets you reduce the scatter distance until you are safely away from the obstruction, which means your squad is much, much less likely to die on impact. Good times!
(A particularly sneaky tactic is to specify the Landing Area as being right between two pieces of Impassable Terrain - as close as you can get without actually landing ON it. That way, you're very likely to need to reduce the scatter distance to '0', meaning that it will land exactly where it's supposed to regardless of what the Dice says...)
If the unit in question is particularly expensive, or has an important role that they absolutely MUST fulfill, an extra 35 points to make sure that they arrive safly AND something to hide behind after they have disembarked is an absolute bargain.
Answering a previous comment, the Lexicanum Website has a huge list of Space Marine Chapters, including canon, fanmade and even 'forgotten' ones, along with their known fluff and colour schemes. I love browsing this page, as it teaches me all sorts of things about the available Chapters, so I hope you find it useful too. :smallsmile:
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wraith
I have been lazy, and should have been stressing NEMESIS Force Weapons - the ones that go "You have taken a wound, so if I pass a Leadership test then your model suffers Instant Death with no saves".
Having said that, I usually play as Eldar (Phoenix Lords all have Eternal Warrior, meaning that it effects something like 7/9 of my special characters) and my most common enemy is Chaos (Daemon Peinces and a lot of their special characters, also) so I accept that my personal viewpoint may be skewed :smallwink:
Also from what Narazil said, if a Deep Striking unit lands on impassable terrain after scattering (like a building, or an enemy squad) they are telefragged, and the entire unit is destroyed outright. Bad times.
1) The Daemonhunter's Force Weapon (and Nemesis Force Weapon wielded by a GK Grandmaster/Stern) actually don't cause 'Instant Death', but are instead removed as a casualty regardless of remaining wounds. The key thing is that the rule Eternal Warrior makes the model immune to Instant Death. The Daemonhunter's (Nemesis) Force Weapon makes no mention of the rule and thus outright slays it's foe, Eternal Warrior or not. Now, people may call shenanigans on this, but RAW supports this. It's like how Eternal Warrior doesn't save you from the Gift of Chaos psychic power.
2) The Deepstrike mishap thing has changed. If you land into impassable terrain (or off the table, onto or within 1" of another unit), then you roll a d6 on the Deepstrike Mishap table to see what happens. I believe on a roll of 1 or 2 the unit is placed back into Reserves (if they're in reserves when the game ends, then they count as destroyed), 3-4 your opponent gets to place the unit wherever they want (does not scatter), and 5-6 they're destroyed outright.
Psychotic
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
1) Yes, shenanigens is the word I'd use! :smalltongue:
You're right though, there is a distinct different between "causes Instant Death" and "the model is slain outright", however given that the 40k Rulebook has been updated since Daemonhunters was released I like to think that's the sort of difference that they would reclarify.
2) Well pointed out, thank you :smallsmile: Even so, that's still all sorts of hassle that you can avoid. Like I said - the Drop Pod puts your unit where you want them, and gives them something to hide behind.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
[QUOTE=Jinura;6735390]
Quote:
Do I need a Drop Pod to use Deep Strike. If not, then what's special about it?
For some squads yes. For other squads, no. Look at your units, find out. Terminators and Land Speeders don't need DPs. A Drop Pod isn't that great to be honest. It's an immobile Rhino. If it lands badly, it's useless, and has probably dropped your unit somewhere useless too.
...'Telefragging' is another problem with Drop Pods. although that's been discussed.
Note: I don't like them. Doesn't mean other people don't. Some people have found uses for Drop Pods. My army consists of Infiltrating Scouts, Bikes and Jump Packs. With all that speed, I don't need Drop Pods.
...They're good for Dreadnoughts. That's all I can think of.
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Where can I find the rules about allies? Cause I was considering getting a Witch Hunter Immolator for my army at some point.
In the Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters Codecies. However, you can't take Immolators by themselves as they're Heavy Support vehicles. You'll need Celestians or Dominions if you want an Immolator. Personally, Marines have access to Razorbacks, why bother?
Quote:
Originally posted by Psychotic
The Daemonhunter's Force Weapon (and Nemesis Force Weapon wielded by a GK Grandmaster/Stern) actually don't cause 'Instant Death', but are instead removed as a casualty regardless of remaining wounds.
Wrong. Because I checked the rules as soon as I read it yesterday. Nemesis Force Weapon, just counts as a regular Force Weapon. Or, rather "Force Weapon: Yes." Page 50 of the BBB says Force Weapons cause Instant Death, exact wording. RAW, Eternal Warriors are immune to Grand Masters.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
[EDIT] Ignore me, completely missed a point somewhere along the line...
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
[QUOTE=Cheesegear;6737733]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jinura
Wrong. Because I checked the rules as soon as I read it yesterday. Nemesis Force Weapon, just counts as a regular Force Weapon. Or, rather "Force Weapon: Yes." Page 50 of the BBB says Force Weapons cause Instant Death, exact wording. RAW, Eternal Warriors are immune to Grand Masters.
The Daemonhunter's Codex has it's own entry for Force Weapon, . Seeing as how Codex > BRB, regardless of which was more recently printed, we use the Force Weapon entry in the Daemonhunter's Codex (the one which makes no reference to the term "Instant Death"), not in the BRB.
Is this very rules lawyer-y? Yes. Is it a super huge deal? No. The fact that a overpriced HQ unit can insta-gib a monstrous creature/character with Eternal Warrior does not make up for the fact that Grey Knights are horrifically over priced, half of their special rules are useless and have un-updated pieces of equipment (I'm looking at you Heavy 3, Non Rending Assault Cannon!).
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Timberwolf
The GW guys, Cheesegear, I had a little chat with when I was in there. I didn't put it here because I was interested in what others might suggest They said Sisters based on my avowed dislike of Chaos.
I could definately go along with that although I do feel that they're a bit mariney. Still, I'm interested in Eldar too.
Anyway, now that's Force Weapons have been sorted, let's get back to our good old newbie (yeah, old newbie...) Timberwolf. Sisters or Eldar, eh? Well, the former happens to be my second-most favourite army, and the latter...Well, I just know a lot about.
Witch Hunters / Sisters of Battle: Well, if you're getting the feeling that they're Marine-y, well, you're not wrong. Power Armour and Bolters are pretty sweet. The problem being, though, is that they have the statline of a Veteran Guardsman. But seriously, power armour and bolters go a long way to mitgate that. As you'll notice (if you grab the Codex), Inquisitorial Storm Troopers (ISTs) have the same statline, for 1 point less...But, don't add Faith to the army. Unlike Daemon Hunters, there is no reason to have ISTs. Battle Sisters are far and away better...Unless you have a strange love for Plasma...Which, to be honest, a lot of us do. :smallamused: Even so, it isn't worth it. Battle Sisters all the way.
...Did I mention that Battle Sisters can come in squads of 20? :smallbiggrin: A Dead'ard unit. One of the dead'ardiest units I can think of besides Terminators and Wraithguard.
As I've mentioned previously, Cannonesses are scary. You can keep them in your back lines to bolster you defenses, or, you can fully kit-out and go nuts. As Blessed Weapons are One per army, it is good to have both. :smallamused: Although, it may be a good idea to at some point grab an Inquisitor at some point to gain access to Land Raiders.
Right...Tanks, the sisters get two unique tanks; The Immolator - comparable to a Space Marine Razorback...But with less options - is well, a close-assault vehicle. It isn't worth taking them by themselves (and using a Heavy Support slot). Always, Always take them as a dedicated transport for Cannonesses, Celestians and Dominions. Save your Heavy slots for Excorcists. AP1 salvos of doom. More importantly, compared to other tanks, Excorcists are cheap points-wise. It's a nice idea to have at least two in every battle. Save one slot for Retributors or Penitent Engines.
Your Sisters Repentia, are like your old-school Death Company. They can dish out massive damage (due to all of them being equipped with the equivalent of Power Fists). Fairly fast due to Holy Rage which makes them run forward. Also, if they fail a Leadership test (on Ld 6!), they run forwards. Only problem is, they can't ride in vehicles and have Toughness 3. Their 4+ save helps. Repentia also come in squads of between 5 and 20.
...Arco-Flaggents are even scarier than Repentia. They have more attacks, better toughness, Invulnerable saves and are Fearless. Again, they can't ride in vehicles...But, they, too are subject ot Holy Rage and can run. But, cost slightly more in points, and come in at max squad-size of 6. Oh...And with that small unit size, they also have a chance of killing themselves. :smallfrown:
A good tactic is to have them hide behind your advancing tanks which block LoS to your fragile footsloggers.
Eldar: As I said, you can't build a bad army with Eldar. Or, rather, it's really, really hard to have a bad Eldar army, or, unless you do it on purpose. Eldar have a unit for everything, basically, if you have a unit, you can fit in your army. Unfortunately, Eldar units are pretty inflexible in what they do. So...Taking 'one of everything' actually is a good idea, and looks pretty cool on the table.
The only things Eldar players have to worry about is;
Dire Avengers vs Guardians? Dire Avengers cost 50% more (but, 8 points plus 50% is only 12. So it's not a big deal) for 50% less guys. Guardians have the potential to come in squads of 20 (although you'll rarely see it, unlike Battle Sisters above), whilst Dire Avengers come in at squads of ten. DAs are probably the only 'flexible' unit in the Eldar army. But, that being said, they still rock-out in the shooting phase. A Doom-Guided Bladestorm will mess things up. Pretty badly. Dire Avengers also have a better statline. And can be outfitted for Assault - if they want. However, Guardians have the option of taking a Heavy Weapon. Common setup for Guardians is ten (the minimum) and a HW. Storm Guardians are very good though. But, I haven't seen any for a few years since Eye of Terror was over.
...Personally, I outfit my army with Dire Avengers and Rangers/Pathfinders.
Striking Scorpions vs Howling Banshees? On these boards, Striking Scorpions are for winners. That's not to say that Howling Banshees don't have their place...Just...Striking Scorpions are awesome. Howling Banshees are good against MEQ units (Marine Equivalent, anything with a good Armour Save) since they have Power Weapons. Banshees also strike at Initiative 10. It sounds good, but it's kind of waste, since more often that not, your Banshees would go first anyway.
Striking Scorpions do...Reasonably vs. Marines. But, they excel against roughly anything else. Having strength-increasing weapons (Howling Banshees might have Power Weapons, but they're still only Strength 3), more attacks, can Infiltrate and better Armour Saves. Due to Infiltration, you also save points on Wave Serpents.
Of course, you can have one of each. But, it's not really advised...See later.
Swooping Hawks vs. Warp Spiders? Now, these units aren't really required in an Eldar army, since the whole army is relatively fast to begin with. But, both units essentially fulfill the same role. Swooping Hawks have Skyleap and Grenade Packs. Good times. And also Haywire Grenades to deal with tanks, and also a fun rule that means that even Skimmers don't like to deal with Hawks.
Warp Spiders have pretty sweet guns. And moves at the same speed as Hawks do. They can also go faster than Hawks, but they could kill themselves if they do. The real benefit to Spiders is access to a Warp Spider Exarch, which are dead killy. Well...C'mon. They are Spiders. :smallamused:
Most Eldar armies do well...Except when faced with Marines or MEQs (so, all the time, then :smallamused:).
That's why they have awesome units like Fire Dragons and/or Wraithguard...And the super-dead-mega-awesome-killy Wraithlords. A number of Eldar units also have static to-wound numbers, mitigating their crappy strength. Wraithguard have BS 4, have guns that always wound on 2+ and insta-gib on 6s. And these guns are also AP2. And kill tanks almost as easily as Fire Dragons can.
A Warlock with Conceal is a must for Wraithguard, since anyone with a brain is terrified of Wraithguard (prioritising them over even Wraithlords), and will aim approximately everything they own at them...Wraithguard also have Toughness 6 and a 3+ Armour Save so it's not too big a deal. However Wraithguard don't come with Invulnerable saves like Terminators, so cover saves are the next best thing. And a Wave Serpent for good measure.
...You should always save an Elite slot for Fire Dragons or Wraithguard...
Unless you're using your Wraithguard as Troops. Yes; It is possible to build an entire army out of Wraithguard :smallamused:, but, that gets really expensive in real-world cash-money. :smallfrown: If that's not an issue...You win. The only thing stopping most Eldar players from playing Wraithguard armies is the real-world currency involved.
Other insta-gibby goodness consists of Rangers (or Pathfinders if you can spare the points) and D-Cannons. D-Cannons are like the Wraithguard guns above...Except have better range. And they're Barrage weapons, so you don't even need to even see your target...And...Have a Blast Template :smallamused:
...D-Cannons should be illegal... But, why am I complaining? :smallconfused:
Seer Councils also come with Witchblades and Singing Spears...Which wound on a 2+ and against tanks (but not Monstrous Creatures :smallfrown:) hit at Strength 9. Who's a weedy Space Elf now!? :smallamused:
...Keep in mind that Witchblades are not Power Weapons. And, as such, Terminators will still eat Seer Councils for breakfast.
Hope that helps Timberwolf.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Quote:
Your Sisters Repentia, are like your old-school Death Company. They can dish out massive damage (due to all of them being equipped with the equivalent of Power Fists). Fairly fast due to Holy Rage which makes them run forward. Also, if they fail a Leadership test (on Ld 6!), they run forwards. Only problem is, they can't ride in vehicles and have Toughness 3. Their 4+ save helps. Repentia also come in squads of between 5 and 20.
They're better in bigger squads though. Since they're always going to be striking last they will probably take a few casualties. When you have a bigger squad, more will survive to take advantage of those power fists.
Quote:
...You should always save an Elite slot for Fire Dragons or Wraithguard...
Unless you're using your Wraithguard as Troops. Yes; It is possible to build an entire army out of Wraithguard , but, that gets really expensive in real-world cash-money. If that's not an issue...You win. The only thing stopping emost Eldar players from playing Wraithguard armies is the real-world currency involved.
I'm sorry, what?
Wraithguard have short ranged guns that are only one shot weapons. They're very expensive per model so you don't get many on the table.
Wraithguard armies are like terminator armies. Few in number, but powerful. And ridiculously dependent on luck. A few lucky to wound rolls from your opponents can utterly wreck your game. Also, they kind of suck against hordes, since they are literally no better against a S3 AP- shot than they are against a S4 AP5 one, and no better at killing a guardsman than they are a Space Marine.
They aren't a completely uber choice restricted only by cost... There are serious drawbacks to wraithguard.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Selrahc
Wraithguard armies are like terminator armies. Few in number, but powerful. And ridiculously dependent on luck. A few lucky to wound rolls from your opponents can utterly wreck your game.
They aren't a completely uber choice restricted only by cost... There are serious drawbacks to wraithguard.
And I was going to so well up until that point. Still, this is 40K, most armies are depenedant on luck to one degree or another.
Still...Hardly serious drawbacks. Toughness 6 isn't something to sneeze at, especially if you've got a 3+ save to back it up. Short range isn't really a problem if you hide out of LoS and force your opponent to come to you.
Void if opponent has Barrage Weapons. Or his 'fast Assault unit' has multiple Power Weapons.
It's what a Hive Tyrant has after all, and a unit of Wraithguard have more wounds than a HT does. Although, Pie-Plates, Lascannons, Melta-Weapons and Power Fists (the same things an HT looks out for) are a conern. Shoot those with your ridicuguns. A Farseer will Guide you to their Doom.
A Warlock - because you are smart, right - will have Conceal or Enhance to get you to and through close combat. Your Initiative 5 (from Enhance) should kill off most of the unit.
...Don't skimp out on D-Cannons. Add some Wraithlords.
A 2000+ point Wraithguard army - like Deathwing - will make most people poop themselves a little bit. Most lists aren't equipped to deal with that sort of thing. But...Yeah, I probably should've mentioned that, a Wraithguard army needs to be big, otherwise, like Daemonhunters and Deathwing, you just wont have enough models.
...In 1000 points I can fit 23 models. That's about the same as Deathwing, but less than Daemon Hunters.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Wraithguard lists are like Deathwing lists. Very nifty, pretty competitive, but with a few glaring weaknesses.
They can definitely be fun, but I wouldn't advice them for someone just back to the hobby.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
I play Eldar, but I seem to play them completely differently then Cheesegear, and I do well with them.
I've never fielded Wraithguard and have no plans to do so in the near future. I almost always take both Banshees and Scorpions in anything more then about 500 points. Banshees need more support then scorpions, but they rarely disappoint me.
The Wave Serpent is among the best transports in the game. They are higher points then a lot of other transports, but they are fairly hard to kill and they are fast skimmers.
I love jetbikes, I can't think of many situations where I wouldn't like at least 1-2 units of jetbikes. I tend to keep them at the minimum size of 3 with a shuriken cannon upgrade. They aren't any more survivable then marines (which isn't bad), but they have amazing maneuverability, especially with the assault phase move. They aren't going to be winning a lot of games on their own but they are great for softening up targets, they are fast enough to get side and rear shots on tanks very early in the game (at str6 for the cannon they can be a danger to a lot of tanks), and they can shape a battlefield nicely. Their goal is to force your opponent to deal with them at the expense of not focusing on more dangerous units. They can also hold objectives, and with their speed that makes them very nice to have.
As for the D-cannon, I don't know of many people that ever use any of the heavy weapon support teams. The unit is fairly expensive for as easy as it is to kill and it only has a 24" range. Sure it will kill quite a bit, but it will probably be dead soon after it has range to hit much. Although I haven't used them myself. It just seems like they are competing with a lot of other very good heavy support choices and they seem redundant to me because there are a lot of other choices in the army to fill the same rolls on the battlefield, without having to stand still to do it.
I really like the War Walkers, at AV10 they can't take a lot, but with 2 scatter lasers they can force a lot of saves on just about any unit. The best part is that they can be taken for 60 points.
Dark Reapers, Falcons and Fire Prisms, and Wraithlord are the other heavy support choices. Useful for different things, I don't really think I need to go into them then.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
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Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
...You should always save an Elite slot for Fire Dragons or Wraithguard...
Unless you're using your Wraithguard as Troops. Yes; It is possible to build an entire army out of Wraithguard :smallamused:, but, that gets really expensive in real-world cash-money. :smallfrown: If that's not an issue...You win. The only thing stopping most Eldar players from playing Wraithguard armies is the real-world currency involved.
*I* have one of those armies - Nothing like spendng your first 1000 points on your 1 HQ 2 Troop choices, baby! :smalltongue:
I won't go into much more detail than Erloas, but it's very easy to beat Wraithguard. It's not particularly easy to kill them I will admit, but that's not always the issue. I certainly wouldn't recommend such a setup for anyone other than the most sadistic of Players.
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As for the D-cannon, I don't know of many people that ever use any of the heavy weapon support teams. The unit is fairly expensive for as easy as it is to kill and it only has a 24" range. Sure it will kill quite a bit, but it will probably be dead soon after it has range to hit much. Although I haven't used them myself. It just seems like they are competing with a lot of other very good heavy support choices and they seem redundant to me because there are a lot of other choices in the army to fill the same rolls on the battlefield, without having to stand still to do it.
Couldn't agree more - I used to field 3 of them as one Heavy choice, and they absolutely rocked my world for about 1 battle. After that, they never got a chance to fire again because they were too easy to avoid and too easy to kill. There is nothing they can do that a Wraithlord or a Squad of Dark Reapers can't, and at much greater distance with far more reliability and flexibility.
...It isn't so funny when they scatter onto your own Farseer either.... :smallmad:
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Why did they have to do this now, when I have no bloody money...in a limited print run, no less...
Space Hulk returns
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Thank the Gods for that....
...By which I mean, I went into GW the other day to pick up some Ironclads and got chatting with the staff, who informed me that they would be receiving a brand new mystery game that week to playtest. They had no clue as to what it actually would be, only that it would be something that GW had produced in the past and still retained the copyright for, and it would be either 40k or Fantasy in nature (and not Necromunda or Mordheim, two of the finest tabletop games ever made, or Blood Bowl despite the new video game about to be launched :smallannoyed: )
The other possible alternatives - Epic 40k and Man 'O' War - were both awful and didn't even bare thinking about. Although at one point, I was successfully harrassing some friends by trying to convince them that GW were going to rerelease Chainsaw Warrior, which was cruel-but-amusing.... :smallwink:
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Yeah, I'm just ticked that the odds of me being able to get a copy are virtually nil. There's just no money for it and I'd wager that it's going to be sold out within a matter of months.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
I really don't hope to depress you Cristo, but I'd actually imagine it to be discontinued after a few months.
GW have, in the past, always followed a very aggressive business pattern, pushing their flagship systems incredibly hard and dropping dead weight at the first sign that it was anything less than lucrative. More than once, in cases like Necromunda and Blood Bowl. I'm not saying that as any kind of criticism about them - at the end of the day, even toy manufacturors need to make a profit - but it always means they treat their 'lesser' games extremely poorly.
Space Hulk suffers from the same problem that those other games did - it requires a very small number of models to play, and you get all of them in the boxed set. GW will sell you a box of Space Hulk, and you'd never need to buy anything from them ever again, unlike 40k where your army can always be a little bit different or expanded to the next 1000 points mark or something.
That's why they stopped carrying it the first time, and they'll probably do so again when sales of the rereleased Space Crusade start to waver too...
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
That does help greatly thanks. I'd like to take a good look at both and see which is more practical but the sisters feel more right to me.
So, If I wanted to tool up a Sisters army, the core would have to look like this, obviously.
Canoness tooled up for melee (advice welcome please, wargear, especially the Ecclesiarchy stuff is really unknown)
2 x Sisters squads (Meltagun to cope with my terror of armour plus Heavy bolter / 2nd meltagun depending on opposition)
Plus...
Elites - Repentia squad - can I attach the cannoness for added up close goodness ?
Heavy support - Exorcist all the way although I wish they didn't look like a Hammond organ on tracks. Ah well, the forge world complete kit is £2 less than GW's and looks good.
Will I have points for anything else ? I'd like to squeeze in a penitent engine for supporting the repentia if at all possible.
Thanks for any help.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
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Originally Posted by
Timberwolf
Canoness tooled up for melee (advice welcome please, wargear, especially the Ecclesiarchy stuff is really unknown)
Off the top of my head: Blessed Weapon. +1 Str power weapon? Yes please.
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2 x Sisters squads (Meltagun to cope with my terror of armour plus Heavy bolter / 2nd meltagun depending on opposition)
Might want Rhinos as well.
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Plus...
Elites - Repentia squad - can I attach the cannoness for added up close goodness ?
Yes, but I wouldn't. Your Canoness should be leading Celestines.
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Heavy support - Exorcist all the way although I wish they didn't look like a Hammond organ on tracks. Ah well, the forge world complete kit is £2 less than GW's and looks good.
Good Choice.
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Will I have points for anything else ? I'd like to squeeze in a penitent engine for supporting the repentia if at all possible.
I wouldn't go with the penitent engine. They don't stand up to heavy weapons fire very well. I'd almost go with Dominion's with a transport. That's a lot of multi-melta fire. Remember, even though the Sororitas have some decent close combat units, they're still primarily a shooter's army. They're only S3, T3. Power armor helps, but they still struggle a bit in close combat.
Other units to consider: Inquisitors. They get some nice equipment and grant access to some really heavy weaponry.
Make sure your Sister's squads all have Imagifiers. These make passing Faith tests much easier.
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Re: Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cristo Meyers
Off the top of my head: Blessed Weapon. +1 Str power weapon? Yes please.
Might want Rhinos as well.
Yes, but I wouldn't. Your Canoness should be leading Celestines.
I wouldn't go with the penitent engine. They don't stand up to heavy weapons fire very well. I'd almost go with Dominion's with a transport. That's a lot of multi-melta fire. Remember, even though the Sororitas have some decent close combat units, they're still primarily a shooter's army. They're only S3, T3. Power armor helps, but they still struggle a bit in close combat.
Other units to consider: Inquisitors. They get some nice equipment and grant access to some really heavy weaponry.
Make sure your Sister's squads all have Imagifiers. These make passing Faith tests much easier.
I can take an inquisitor as an elite choice can't I ? If I have the Canoness as HQ and the Inquisitor as elite, will that still give me access to a Land Raider ? More to the point, I see there have been... additions to the Landraider market while I have been away (not that I have any intention of turning down the only opportunity to pack lascannons that I hear Witchhunters have). Just as a point of order, should a case of utter madness, a Waaaagh or a Nid swarm strike me, could I take a Redeemer / Crusader if I really wanted to ?
Ok, based on the above advice, I am thinking the following for my initial army if someone wouldn't mind running the points for me... hopefully it's about 1000 after wargear.
HQ - Cannoness - tooled up for assault, yes, to accompany the repentia for now, largely because I don't see much use for a choppy canoness if she's not actively engaged in the chopping unless she's adding some assault teeth to the other sisters squads in case of a breakthrough, which is logical. Maybe Celestines next round of purchases.
Elites - Repentia because I like my melee units / assault oriented inquisitor and retinue
Troops - Sisters squad 1 (meltagun, Heavy Boltgun if allowed / 2nd meltagun)
Sisters squad 2 (meltagun, Heavy Boltgun if allowed / 2nd meltagun)
Heavy support - Exorcist
Not sure where a Dominion squad fits - fast attack ? I know nothing about them. Although, mind you, what would a second Exorcist do for me do you think ?